Open thread: Does Apple need new leadership?

A five-year-old dead-end design fiasco is what Apple’s selling as their flagship “professional” Mac today.

On September 12, 2017, Apple gave a sneak peek of AirPower, an Apple-designed wireless charging accessory they claimed was “coming in 2018.” It’s 2019. No AirPower.

Apple’s latest iPhones were named as idiotically as they are, because Apple SVP Phil Schiller says, “I love cars and things that go fast, and R and S are both letters used to denote sports cars that are really extra special.” Unbelievably, that’s the rationale for naming the most important product of, at the time, the most valuable company in the world? No, that’s the rationale of a six-year-old child. Maybe five. The stupidity is sharp enough to hurt. The level of compensation awarded for such idiocy is criminal.

Today Apple cut its Q1 guidance in a warning letter to investors. Apple shares, already soundly beaten down, got kicked in the face for over 7% more in after hours trading.

These are but four recent examples out of a list of screwups, missed deadlines, laziness, mistakes, and general mediocrity from Apple under Tim Cook (see article list below for more). Yes, there have been flashes of brilliance (see: AirPods (shipped late, of course, by the way), Apple Watch (nearly zero stock at initial launch), iPhone X, HomePod (also shipped late, missing Christmas 2017), the 12-inch MacBook, the new iPad Pros, and more), but too many other mistakes dull their shine.

Tim Cook seemed nervous as he stammered his way through an interview with CNBC after market close today. He’s right to be nervous. (Well, as nervous as someone can be with a net worth of $625 million. Unlike some retirement age AAPL bag-holders right now, financing his retirement will not be a concern.)

We are on record. Back in April 2017, we wrote, “Half a decade after Steve Jobs’ death, people are beginning to see the results of the lack of a charismatic, focused leader. You cannot go from Steve Jobs to someone who ‘doesn’t like people arguing’ and not effect a profound culture change.” Four long years ago, we wrote an open letter to Tim Cook, stating flatly that “Apple needs to do better.”

Has Tim Cook’s Apple done enough?

If he retired today, Tim Cook’s Apple would be known for coasting along on Steve Jobs’ innovations, rolling up tremendous profits that any halfway competent CEO would have accrued (or more), and devolving into being lazy, sloppy and routinely late. That’s a great legacy, Tim.MacDailyNews, April 10, 2018

Does Apple need new leadership?

CEO Tim Cook on why Apple lowered first-quarter revenue forecasts – January 2, 2019
Apple’s newest Mac Pro turns five years old today – December 19, 2018
Apple’s 2013 Mac Pro, five years later – May 31, 2018
3 things to expect from Apple’s 2019 Mac Pro – April 11, 2018
Why can’t Apple keep their products up-to-date? – April 10, 2018
Why is it taking Apple so long to update the Mac Pro? – April 10, 2018
Apple’s latest announcements about the modular Mac Pro really ramp up expectations – April 6, 2018
Apple needs to stop promising new products and start delivering them – April 6, 2018
Apple: No new Mac Pro until 2019 – April 5, 2018
Apple reiterates they’re working on an all-new modular, upgradeable Mac Pro and a high-end pro display – December 14, 2017
The culture at Apple changed when Tim Cook took over as CEO – April 10, 2017
Why Apple’s promise of a new ‘modular’ Mac Pro matters so much – April 6, 2017
Apple’s cheese grater Mac Pro was flexible, expandable, and powerful – imagine that – April 6, 2017
More about Apple’s Mac Pro – April 6, 2017
Apple’s desperate Mac Pro damage control message hints at a confused, divided company – April 6, 2017
Who has taken over at Apple? – April 5, 2017
Apple’s embarrassing Mac Pro mea culpa – April 4, 2017
Who’s going to buy a Mac Pro now? – April 4, 2017
Mac Pro: Why did it take Apple so long to wake up? – April 4, 2017
Apple sorry for what happened with the Mac Pro over the last 3+ years – namely, nothing – April 4, 2017
Apple to unveil ‘iMac Pro’ later this year; rethought, modular Mac Pro and Apple pro displays in the pipeline – April 4, 2017
Apple’s apparent antipathy towards the Mac prompts calls for macOS licensing – March 27, 2017
Why Apple’s new Mac Pro might never arrive – March 10, 2017
Dare we hold out hope for the Mac Pro? – March 1, 2017
Apple CEO Cook pledges support to pro users, says ‘we don’t like politics’ at Apple’s annual shareholders meeting – February 28, 2017
Yes, I just bought a ‘new’ Mac Pro (released on December 19, 2013 and never updated) – January 4, 2017
Attention, Tim Cook! Apple isn’t firing on all cylinders and you need to fix it – January 4, 2017
No, Apple, do not simplify, get better – December 23, 2016
Rare video shows Steve Jobs warning Apple to focus less on profits and more on great products – December 23, 2016
Marco Arment: Apple’s Mac Pro is ‘very likely dead’ – December 20, 2016
How Tim Cook’s Apple alienated Mac loyalists – December 20, 2016
Apple’s not very good, really quite poor 2016 – December 19, 2016
Apple’s software has been anything but ‘magical’ lately – December 19, 2016
Lazy Apple. It’s not hard to imagine Steve Jobs asking, ‘What have you been doing for the last four years?’ – December 9, 2016
Rush Limbaugh: Is Apple losing their edge? – December 9, 2016
AirPods: MIA for the holidays; delayed product damages Apple’s credibility, stokes customer frustration – December 9, 2016
Apple may have finally gotten too big for its unusual corporate structure – November 28, 2016
Apple has no idea what they’re doing in the TV space, and it’s embarrassing – November 3, 2016
Apple’s disgracefully outdated, utterly mismanaged Mac lineup is killing sales – October 13, 2016
Apple takes its eye off the ball: Why users are complaining about Apple’s software – February 9, 2016
Open letter to Tim Cook: Apple needs to do better – January 5, 2015


    1. Agreed. I just read 50+ comments and very few of them read like the poster actually read what Cook said.

      First: You can’t blame this on Macs or iPads or Services or Other. All of those are up in accordance with the prior projection. Apart from iPhone, the company as a whole beat last year’s revenue by 19%. So the complaints about those sectors may be valid, but they have nothing to do with the company’s financial performance. Revenue in those sectors was essentially what Cook projected 90 days ago.

      Second: You can’t blame it on iPhone sales anywhere but Greater China. Those are pretty close to projections. Apart from China, iPhone revenue is up year-over-year (that’s what “China accounts for more than 100% of the underperform” means).

      So, that leaves China. It is entirely responsible for the underperformance.

      So, could somebody please state succinctly what Tim Cook (or anybody else) could have done to turn around the losses in Greater China, which were a combination of a slowdown in the overall Chinese economy and issues related to hostility between the Chinese and American governments.

      Yes, we can all say that Cook should have done things differently, but would any of the things we would have done make any difference?

        1. Has it been 90 days? It seemed as though I blinked my eyes for just a second and $400B disappeared from Apple’s value. That must be the trillion-dollar curse. Apple invented it.

      1. “You can’t blame this on Macs or iPads or Services or Other. All of those are up in accordance with the prior projection”

        Mac sales were up to projection is beside the point. The critics are saying if Mac sales were LARGER if Cook didn’t neglect it, it would have eased the lower sales of iPhone. Mac sales could easily be double today than then when Cook took over if sales only increased by a few percent compounded a year. Multiply this by other products, for example Education (lost), home automation etc.

        If Tim Cook had paid more attention to products like Mac and diversified the product lines, iPhones up and down won’t hit the stock so much.

        1. That’s some very interesting assertions you made regarding the increases in sales that would have taken place if you had been Cook’s boss.. You know squat.

          Baseless and devoid of facts BS from you..

          You had the biggest boner of your life when the stock was $75 higher

          1. not updating Macs, no mac advertising.
            that’s brilliant management?

            “biggest boner of your life”
            comments like that in reply to my pretty factual and polite post.

            1. AAPL’s PE was shit compared to other FANG stocks, Investors want to see innovation and have a sense that there will be huge growth,
              That feeling wasn’t and isn’t there. There is no sense that Timmy has “one more thing…”

      2. People look at Steve’s tenure with rose colored glasses. Yes, Steve did great things, but there were breaks as long as six years where no new product lines shipped. Do people not remember the shower curtain iMacs? The white iPhone 4 shipped almost a year late. The G5 laptop never shipped. Off and on the MacBook Pro had problems with the hinges, I think the Ti models had problems with the surface peeling off, other models had logic board problems causing display failures.

        It’s fine to criticize the current team, but be clear it wasn’t perfect in the past.

        1. The Apple of that era was a small company with a fraction of the employees of today’s company and they were digging themselves out of debt, a decade of decline, an inefficient supply chain and more.

          Apple has essentially infinite resources compared to Steve Jobs’ Apple in regards to people and money. What they do not have is a visionary leader who knows why he comes to work every morning and what the company is really about.

          Apple should not be producing video content- that is a fool’s errand. They do not need to retail rental music which is a very low margin business for the artist and the distributor. They should invest more in the computer side of what was once called Apple Computer.

          The fact that I cannot buy a WiFi router from Apple anymore is stupid, the same for a computer monitor, the same for a workstation grade Mac, or a server OS or rack mounted server. Why has Apple not recruited an army of value added resellers to go after the Professional and Enterprise markets? Why has Apple not pushed the Mac mini as a thin client device? Why does the EULA for Mac OS forbid the use of the SW (and by inference the HW) for any number of critical computer markets?

          I know that the iPhone pays the bills, but Apple should be more than a designer and marketer of cell phones. That is a mature market and there are other mountains to conquer- and I do not mean producing TV shows or streaming radio stations.

          In football, everybody who is not an Alabama fan hates the Tide because they win so much. You know what Alabama does not do- they do not park their best players on the sideline and let everyone else catch up just after they take the lead. Alabama kicks your ass, then keeps kicking your ass until time runs out or the other team grows a backbone. Apple should be like that, but an Auburn alum (Cook) would never say that.

      3. How about introducing the XS Max at the same price as last year’s X and reducing the price of the XS by $100… and also reducing the price of the XR by $50.

        Those few things would have mitigated losses.

        People are choosing to replace their batteries because the new phones out of reach and out of touch.

    2. No, for a different reason.

      I think Apple is understaffed to handle all the products needed in a modern home for home automation, alarms, Internet connectivity and such.

      To give credit to Apple leadership at all levels, the company is planning major expansion in Texas and London if I remember right and I don’t think those are the only new locations.

      I know how hard it is to recruit high engineering performers to take on a new product line or revamp an old one. It is damn hard.

      1. It needs a new strategy not a new leader.

        Current ranges are crazy – take the Mac for starters
        Macbook is priced similar to the Air which is now better but was entry. It used to have a £750 starting point in the Uk but that was binned off and it was jacked to £1000+ a couple years back when apple first went on the cash grab.
        Now the Air is released with touchID despite iPhones transitioning away from it and moving to faceID. Macbook Pro is awaiting updates and touchbar should have filtered down in some form but hasn’t.
        The release cycles are odd.

        The iPhone is similar. The naming is atrocious and looks like it was stolen from the boeing marketing team (MAX8, ER, LR, NG etc).
        They’ve jacked the price by almost double and wonder why sales are stalling.
        They use colour as a budget option – when it used to be innovative. How can they wonder why people are stalling buying XR’s – it costs more than other launch phones ever used to but is pushed at an option worse than the XS even though it has a similar spec. It’s also a pig to hold.

        People bought an iMac because they didnt want another grey box. An iPhone is another black, white or gold rectangle. Same old.

        After spending billions on beats and siri apple should have been first to the speaker market. But no years late and at least triple the price means homepod was dead on arrival. Not to mention how utterly shite siri is. I asked for a suggestion of what to eat on Christmas Eve – she suggested McDonalds!

        It’s time to get back to basics apple. There is no focus. There is little thought about the end user.

        Mac line – needs annual refreshes (which could be staggered to maintain sales throughout the years).

        iPhone – focus on three sizes including a 5 sized device.
        Colour as premium

        Macbook – realignment, Mid and Pro (Macbook, Air & Pro)
        Mac – realignment and finally sort out Pro

        Homepod – sort out pricing, sort out siri – into soundbars, smaller and larger speakers and subs a la Sonos

        AppleTV – its time that it wasnt a set top box or TV stick. Apple should make a TV and have that as a hub for the smart home. They’d get speaker demand, more subscription through a TV app store and could actually go after new revenue rather then ramping up prices for everything at each new release time.

    3. My question would be “What people would replace them?” Because there are a LOT of people that aren’t currently working for tech companies that could do a LOT worse. There are very few that could do better, but they’re already gainfully employed at other companies and would be reluctant to leave.

      So, even if the answer was yes, whatyagunnadoboutit?

    1. Yes. Yes and Yes..i like Tim–he has a specific skill set–but Apple CEO is not his wheelhouse. Apple needs a fierce creative at the wheel right now imho. Tim should still have a big role–but not in product strategy.

      That said..since Cook is Steve Jobs’ own anointed caretaker, i can’t foresee Cook ever getting the hook–unless he voluntarily steps down. Who has the power to remove/replace him?

      Which raises the question–how bad does it have to get before those discussions begin to happen?

  1. Lets hear it folks… i can guess what most of u have in mind ..
    But hey do us all a favor..

    Dont just bash and complain..
    If you are going to bash ..then Offer a tangable, real solution…

    1. I hear what you are saying and agree that mere bashing won’t be too desirable (I do it all the time) or productive. Thank you for encouraging this.
      But my frustration is that it is hard for me to truly understand the thought process followed by Tim Cook. He is the CEO of a major tech company and must have a super qualification. But I often find him a bit too simplistic. Appears soft and gentle yet very ruthless too. He also seems to be very stubborn.
      I will have something to say better after analyzing him and what he has done in the past in an effort to find out how he deals with issues. I can do that only from an armchair quarterback position of course. But I am immensely interested in hearing from other colleagues here. I appreciate people here mostly composed and are capable of meaningful debates (and arguments) without fist fights 🙂

      1. Even tough many call Jobs an enigma and for sure he was a very complex individual .. it was easier to understand him and his thought process than Tim’s ( and by this , by no means i intend to say that Tim is shalow or incapable..he has a lot going to his credit.. a lot ). But its hard to figure him out….
        Is it lack of eloquence?.. charisma?… ( qualities that trully elevated Jobs to another level )

        I have tried to figure him out..its hard…….. i have even written him once asking to consider writing an autobiography…
        It will be an interesting insight for me and many im sure.

        That said..
        At this moment i dont have anyone in mind that would be more qualified than he is.. ……lets remember 3-4 months ago..

        I wonder if Angela Ahrendts influace has something to do with whats happening with Apples branding as super lux. product rather than high end product for everyone.

        Angela and Beats and Macs… preplexing decisions to me.

        1. This is what happens when you prioritize diversity over talent. Tim is so focused on playing the part and looking right that he forgot that actual enovation needs to take place at some point.

          Can you imagine if Tim had to build a company from scratch just how far he and his chosen team would get. The turnaround that Steve Jobs pulled off when he returned to apple was amazing. Look back at that core team Steve put together. Zero emphasis on diversity, all while the company mostly avoid politics like the plague.

          Tim is more concerned about external apperence then making insanely great products. Do you think the Chinese smart phone manufacturer Huawei thinks about diversity or social justice.

          Now that he has squandered the lead, Do we think Tim has the instinct, mindset and talent to turn apple around or will he continue the course of safety, self importance and social responsibility.

          Business is war Tim and your rules of engagement will kill apple. Look at the bones on the battlefield. Maybe you should retire and start a charity or something. Your nice guy ways will get us killed or enslaved. (Metaphorically speaking)

        2. “it was easier to understand him and his thought process”
          Yes, Steve Jobs thoughts about the round mouse was clear to all! I think it’s because people FEEL that Steve is explainable in hindsight, but still have no way to actually understand the underlying thought processes. In 20 years, folks will be saying that Tim was easier to understand than whomever the new person is.

          Angela, you’d have to go to one of the new flagship Apple stores to see it, but it’s the kind of transition that’s built to bring in new customers. Beats is why we have Apple Music. Apple basically bought their way into streaming. And Macs… well I’m sure it’s easy to understand that Steve’s direction was to eventually replace Macs with the next thing.

        3. “But its hard to figure him out….
          Is it lack of eloquence?.. charisma?… ( qualities that trully elevated Jobs to another level )”

          Steve Jobs was an alpha male.
          Tim Cook, as talented as he is in many fields, is incapable of this trait.

          Many will call this gay bashing, but it is simple psychology;
          Alpha males make better leaders. I realize there are many other traits that are required (and Tim has more than most!) but this is the irreconcilable differences between the two, even had they been equal on all other talents.

    2. Sure,
      Make Siri as good as GOOGLE Search
      Dominate Schools, rather than Chromebook
      Have a user UNBIASED upload platform to go along with Apple Music like YouTube. Easy,
      Go into business markets,
      Have a Pro Line for ALL software applications,
      From graphic arts to video to Docs to accounting, ALL APPLE.
      Frigging make MAPS BETTER than Google maps. Copy everything that Google now offers.
      Have a truly great HomePOD,
      Have a product line for people with less income, Isn’t Apple supposed to be for everyone? or just RICH TRANSGENDERS?
      Apple could have bought Netflix or something like that when Netflix was in it’s infancy, JUST like Jobs had Pixar.
      Pro Macs. upgradable (WTF was the Garbage Can??!??) Fire whomever designed that POS.
      A iPhone PRO that is thick with a two day battery, waterproof rugged, etc. (how about like not missing big screens for three years)
      any other new products, anything?
      Make Apple Music Great, with something i can see, not just hear.
      DONT use only THUNDERBOLT3 exclusively, offer a friggin sdcard slot, ANYTHING, we dont want DONGLES. (timmy does)
      GAMING? how is Apple NOT in Gaming?
      How about a cloud service that actually works like time machine, not just storage.
      The world is using Google suite of services from Gmail to Docs, more, and Apple could have had that base, with trusted privacy, GO THERE.

      1. And
        – stop dumbing down the applications!
        – Improve the GUI’s. Create software that works.
        – Fix software bugs instead of ignoring them.
        – Make Apple’s user base more tech savvy.

      2. This seems appropriate…
        There is a large subset of Apple’s users that want to use Apple for everything.

        They want to wake up in their Apple bed, flip their Apple switch to turn on their Apple light, shuffle into their Apple slippers, toss on their Apple robes, turn the Apple doorknob, walk across their Apple flooring, look into their Apple mirror, grab their Apple toothbrushes and brush their teeth with Apple toothpaste. To these people, to infer that, maybe Apple doesn’t NEED to make toilet tissue is a sin! Apple should make enough products so that they never need to use anything non-Apple, no matter the cost or how much sense it makes.

        They not only want an Apple car, they want Apple tires and spark plugs, too. They only want to fill up at Apple fueling stations where everything sold therein is from Apple. So, OF COURSE they will forego their Apple condoms and take Apple fertility pills to have kids that use nothing but Apple devices in school. Connected, of course, to Apple routers with Apple CAT5 cables to the server room filled with Apple blades.

        Nothing would make them happier than to have Apple as their ISP, Apple as their search engine, with videos and music ONLY from Apple. These are not people that will accept Apple not providing their every need with an Apple logo. “Visine is ok, I guess,” they say, “but I’m waiting for the Apple eye drops. It makes no sense that Apple aren’t making those. Actually, I’ll grab my Apple writing tool and some Apple parchment… no, better to print this out using my Apple printer onto Apple paper, put it in an Apple envelope with an Apple stamp and send via Apple post letting Tim know what an awesome product that would be!”

        1. I guess they could just drop everything and make phones?

          Getting into new markets is one thing, dropping key parts of markets that you either dominated or at least lead in the technology is lazy and Apple is paying the price for it now.

          Even though Apple made way less off Macs, Apple TVs, schools or Airports at least they could pivot to these to keep investors from losing faith in what is turning into a one-trick pony.

          People used to ask me why I had Mac computers, “Apple products are expensive toys!”. That was 2007. I pointed out Apple made servers, the best wi-fi, Power Macs, were used in schools because they were so stable and cheaper in the long run. Oddly enough I worked for a media company that owned MANY Apple computers in the newspaper division. I’d go into the IT office and see everyone working their asses off to repair laptops, desktops, overnighting systems to offices in six states because of rampant failures of their PCs!!

          Once or twice I saw a Pro G5 or iMac in there just for upgrades or updates, seldom for repair [note: I saw many G5 and Intel Mac Pros and iMacs in use over the years, but NEVER a trashcan Mac Pro!]. That same department (that also ran servers for out ISP division) switched to all Apple wifi for offices, Apple TVs for conference rooms and iMacs for even the lowliest receptionist. So when Apple abandons a market like Airports then businesses feel burned just like school districts, server farms, media companies and software developers.

          Business is not tennis or golf, rather it is closer to basketball.
          You need a team backing up that star, whether in products or personnel. A team that can fill in on an off night or injury.

          Apple just had their Lebron James break an ankle, but will return eventually, just too bad the rest of the team is out of shape….

          1. Apple making their own version of what SHOULD have been common hardware was never sustainable, but it was required when there was a dearth of compelling alternatives. Until the LaserWriter there was no other printer like it. Once the broader market got the clue, Apple no longer needed to be in that market. Same with wireless networking.

            Sure, for some older folks it felt like “I can buy EVERYTHING I need from Apple and that’s the way it should be”. And, that being their reality, it would make them REALLY comfortable to be able to go back to those times. But, that doesn’t mean it makes business sense.

            1. As usual, you’re wrong again.
              Don’t you EVER get tired of that??

              You’ve used the same argument over and over, and YES many businesses PREFER the safety of an Apple network vs shit from T-Link and many others. All that changed is going tri-band to speed up throughput which could have been added to existing networks even if they didn’t support it as they slowly (or immediately) transitioned.

              Do you have any technical training at all??

            2. And I’m sure they’d PREFER Apple branded bottled water vs shit from Aquafina. Just because someone prefers something, doesn’t mean that preference is rational. Folks are afraid of change for any number of reasons.

            3. Again, you have overstated your position in a very stupid, childish manner.

              How far do you take this simplistic view of yours?
              Maybe Apple should just quit making anything and sell operating systems?

              You conflate simple diversity with making EVERYTHING.
              Is that you, Timmy???

    3. It’s not my job to fix Tim Cook’s clusterfsck. It’s the B of D’s job to do that.

      All I know is that I have now lost nearly 6 figures on my Apple holdings in all of 8 weeks. I can hold the stock for 40 years and not re-earn what I have lost. I’ll be 98 years old in 40 years.

      God damn Tim Cook. That lazy good for nothing bastard.

      1. In the same boat as you my brother. Maybe Apple can buy back a ton of stock. Move some factories to India.
        Also I actually liked Scott Forstall. I know he was a pain in the ass.
        But so was Steve. That is what is needed and someone that can put a good team together. Good luck.

        1. Scott Forstall, that titan of technical knowledge… what other tech company is he currently running? Oh, he’s not, he’s doing shows on Broadway. His ONLY claim to fame was being Steve Job’s friend. If it weren’t for that, he wouldn’t have been at Apple because he wouldn’t have been at NeXT either.

          No matter how much one TRIES to equate Scott with Steve for being an pain in the ass, Steve was still personable and could get people to work for and with him. A pain in the ass that can’t get people to work with them is, in the end, just a pain in the ass 🙂

          1. So are you saying the forced out genius Apple tech designer, now working on Broadway, somehow forgot everything as Steve’s right hand man for 20 years? You don’t forget how to operate a computer, drive, ride a bike or swim, or do you? Get real.

            “His ONLY claim to fame was being Steve Job’s friend.” Wow, how clueless and ignorant can one be. Read up on something you know NOTHING about which is obviously his talent, experience, resume and long list of accomplishments:


            Scott and Steve delivered the Apple tech we enjoy today. No one on planet Earth is more more qualified, to lead and replace a serious creative deficiency at Apple…

            1. I’m currently reading the book Creative Selection by Ken Kocienda and Scott comes across very well. Well respected by engineers and a man who seems to know how to get things done.

              Sure he was difficult and caused arguments and tension but it looks like that is what you need at Apple because Tim’s “don’t bring me problems” attitude clearly isn’t working.

              Steve Jobs was the same – if people didn’t bring him problems he’d create his own, to motivate people.

              Also the last OS that Scott was in charge of was Snow Leopard which is testimony enough to his capabilities.

            2. “somehow forgot everything as Steve’s right hand man”
              No, I’m saying the ONLY thing he knows how to be is Steve’s right hand man. I mean the wiki page says he spent his career at NeXT and Apple and… nothing else in tech.

              One very important difference between Steve Jobs and Forstall. When Steve Jobs left Apple, he stayed in technology and built his own company AGAIN. Now, if what they say about his personality is true, it’s very likely that it would be hard for him to start a company (if he’s really more unlikeable than Steve Jobs), but, I mean, he could at LEAST sit on a board of directors or something. Stay relevant in tech and I’d expect you to be on the shortlist when the next hot (even NON-Apple) opportunity comes up. You must admit there’s something strange about a leader known for being a “font of innovation” that can’t find a job in tech. ESPECIALLY when most of the executives that have left Apple have been snapped up QUITE quickly to head high visibility roles in tech.

              It could be that he turned down ALLLL those offers because he just really doesn’t want to be in tech anymore. If that’s the case, then that’s not the person anyone would want running Apple.

            3. Apparently “well respected” and “employable” are two completely different things nowadays? Just today, news that Apple’s chipmaking chief, Johnny Srouji is on Intel’s list of potential CEOs. Who’s list is Scott Forstall on? Let’s not even say CEO, who wants Scot Forstall as an Executive VP? Division head? Board of directors? Best Buy Geek Squad member?

              If he was as amazing as some folks think he was, he wouldn’t be on Broadway unless he’s just not interested in tech.

  2. WE all saw this coming, Look at all the comments from last year, right during Christmas time, It was the same story, get rid of TIMMY. So because of TRUMP there was the opportunity to repatriate funds from abroad, THATS gone, and because of that, BUFFET though, probably incorrectly, that there would be adequate sales and stock buy backs, THAT pushed the stock, but all of that is gone, so honestly, what new innovative product did Timmy introduce, (ok the watch) that is the “MUST HAVE”, there is not too much, Down Vote all you want, but the shareholders aren’t feeling it, and unless you have skin in the game, don’t comment,

    1. … own stock in Apple directly, only through mutual funds. But I’ve been buying their products since 1998, and as far as I’m concerned you can take your directive on who can or can’t comment on this issue and shove it up your arse.

      1. “… own stock in Apple directly, only through mutual funds”

        I am exactly in the same situation. Ever since I was retired, I no longer play a risky game and have settled down. But because of that, I am not afraid of bashing Apple (sometimes:-) which might somehow affect on bring down their stock market position, and have no wishful thinking like those people whose money is at stake. But I do lament those good old days that having Apple products and staying in their walled garden came with a sort of pride. There was a lot of expectation and excitement too. Never had to see another side of the garden (now I do). And Apple products were truly superb and special.
        How can we restore those feelings again? Not much a single person can do, and I am frustrated. Whining sometimes is good medicine when letting out the steam 🙂

  3. Investors and the media will cry that we are going to all suffer, for Trump’s tariffs. That the world is falling apart instantly!!!

    Let me give you some personal perspective:

    Companies I represent are moving OUT of China. One is building a new plan in the Philippines and exiting China. Others are boosting their production in Taiwan (funny how the Chinese President – for life! – suddenly wants to take over Taiwan again – imagine that), and some are moving to Mexico and even a bit to the US.

    My Point? Just because China is suffering does not mean the US is going to suffer alongside. China is being economically isolated at an amazingly rapid rate. It’s economy is in the absolute toilet in just 6 months time.

    Put it another way:

    A farmer and his cow got into a disagreement. The cow told the farmer “I’m not going to give you milk anymore” and the farmer said “Oh, okay. I’m not going to feed you anymore.”

    In about a week, the cow re-thought its position.

    With China needing that $350B+ USD a year, and the US only pulling $40b a year or so of that back via our sales to them, China is the cow and we are the farmer.

    People don’t get it, but China needs us 100% NEEDS us. The US does NOT need China. In two years, so much of what I sell will NOT be being made in China at this rate. If they don’t budge, they’ll crush themselves and the world will move on and manufacture elsewhere. No one is holding a socialistic “do this or else” gun to anyone’s head. Companies move quickly and will and are manufacturing elsewhere.

    China will fold sooner than later. The President yelling about wanting Taiwan is a sign the cow is starting to starve…

    And once the Trump admin finalizes a deal, we will be selling even more into China, aiding our production in the US and employment, and, and, and…

    1. Rather optimistic. Thanks to Trump’s tariffs, my sales are down 60%. I sell raw materials. My customers, American manufacturers, are losing their orders for HIGHER VALUE finished products to other companies in Asia, Mexico and Canada, that can produce the same finished products using lower prices raw materials without tariffs.

      Also, anyone who knows the very basics of economics knows that the overall trade deficit will not change as long as the US is running trillion dollar budget deficits. Unless US citizens and companies suddenly completely change their behavior and become massive savers and start buying US treasury bonds in massive volumes, the only way to finance budget deficits is via trade, where we by foreign products in dollars and foreign entities recycle their dollars via treasury purchases. AND, should those trade and dollar flows slow, the Fed will be forced to incentivize domestic saving by implementing massive interest rate increases. This is not speculation, it is the inviolate math of very basic economic principles that nobody in the white house seems to have open a book on.

  4. Any CEO of a company who let’s their flagship computer not see an update for 5 years should be run out of town on a rail.

    That’s gross incompetence. To further his incompetence he let the lack of updates trickle down to their entire line of computers.

    Only at apple can you buy a new premium product with 3 year old tech in it. Apple is actually putting i3 chips in computers when a entry level windows machine is sporting an i7.

    1. I have to agree it’s time for Tim to go. My last MacBook Pro purchase 2 months ago required the purchase of $300 worth of dongles to do my job. It’s insulting. And they’re insulting their customers by keeping a 5 year old machine on their website. No excuse.

      1. Remember when you had to buy all kinds of shit when the floppy drive was axed – it is the same thing all over – soon all will be USB-C and all will be fine – Sad that we had to go through all the crappy USB-A crappy connector..

  5. I’m torn on this.

    On the one hand, he sucks. His deep pipeline is a joke. They are spending 18.5x on R&D they did in 2007 when they updated all products, software and came out with the iPhone, to produce less and less and not update important products. Tim Cook is a failure at what he’s supposed to be good at, operations, buy putting all of Apple’s eggs in one basket: China. If China bans the manufacture of iPhones, it’s all over, because there is no plan B factory in the US or elsewhere making iPhones. That is a failure at the basics of operations to not have all your eggs in one basket.

    On the other hand, I’m not sure who could be better and if the change wouldnt cause chaos both in stock value and internally in Apple. Inside apple their are herds of cats, and only someone as brutal firing people in elevators not giving an F, someone like that could rope them into a common directions. The only one big enough of an A-hole was likely crazy eye Scott Forstall. Now, likely the most competent choice would craig federighi, but I’m not sure he could be brutal enough internally despite likely having a much better tech/vision than cook (low bar). My fear is they would put in Angela who is a failure in managing to turn the best retail experience in history into the DMV.

    So that’s the danger, swapping out cook would be good, but only if you had an amazing replacement. Someone like an Elon Musk level would be needed (although Elon himself would likely be a disaster as I dont think he would care about any products apple makes, and just use it to pivot to thinks he likes).

    That said, I’m at the point if you put gun to head to decide, I’d pull the trigger and put in Craig. Not sure it’s the best move, but it might be the only move.

    1. I totally agree with you on all points.
      But I always thought that Jobs pick of Timmy as his successor was only as a caretaker to ride out any possible wave after he exited this world. With Jobs capacity of the foresight, I cannot think that he picked Tim for a long-term assignment. OTOH, many articles pointed out how close Jobs and Forstall was. This is probable as booth had an engineering mind and the foresight to come with it. Between Tim and Scott, Scott was the closest to represent Apple in my opinion. But Tim knew it, and in order to preserve hi position, he had to let Scott go. Apple has a huge cash asset, big enough to experiment with a person like Scott. But he may not return under any circumstance but you never know.
      Next is Craig (Federighi)as he must know how jobs worked and thought. There is no doubt he has an engineering qualification and has a cheerful character. But as you said, I am not sure he is ruthless enough to swim through the highly political atmosphere of the current management team. But I would think he is far more qualified than Tim Cook in terms of seeing the future direction. The only remaining question is if he has a political prowess to actually “execute” what he thinks Apple should be doing. In terms of the “execution” power, a person like Elon Mask, despite his wild image, has a very real track record. Apple today is cash rich enough to experiment with people like Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos. Or a smart tech manager like Satya Nadella of M$. All I can wish for now is the B of D with good personal connections and insight into Apple fro outside perspective take the lead and make a choice of the best leadership group.

      1. I think people are giving these execs and even Timmy way too much respect, Every one of us in this blog has come up with obvious ideas that just are not being implemented. That at very least would have made up for the sales dip, the lack of innovation? when Amazon has a full entertainment site now? and google is in everybody’s world? schools, everything? man, all you’d have to do is FOLLOW THEIR LEAD… how pathetic.

      2. “With Jobs capacity of the foresight, I cannot think that he picked Tim”
        With Jobs capacity of the foresight, I cannot think that he had the capacity of foresight. Gotcha.

        “how close Jobs and Forstall was”
        And that is LITERALLY it as far as Forstall goes. Without Steve Jobs as a friend, he would have been a nobody, like he is today. IF he was such a genius, he would be leading some other tech company, but he’s not. No one wants him (Even snapchat only wanted him as an Advisor, not even on the board of directors).

  6. Apple was the largest company in the world. Apple has nobody responsible for making certain its laptops are state of the art and current technology. It has nobody with product responsibility for its line of professional desktop computers, and making certain it has fresh competitive products and is winning this segment against its competition. It has nobody in charge of network products, since it abandoned that very important and very strong product line.

    My point is, after all this time Apple does not have an organization with distinct responsibility for Profit and Loss of each important product. That is how it lets products go for four years with zero upgrades. It is why there are no visible marketing campaigns any more for the computer products. Apple is running with the same organizational model it had 30 years ago. None.

    It is time for Apple to become a real company. And it needs a real leader.

    1. I have to say, totally get rid of Jimmy Iovine too, if he’s consulting or anything, WTF has he done? and DRE? Beats.. (and whomever is running the show there) You’d think they and Apple Music would have HUGE entertainment announcements every day of every week pimping out huge entertainment releases… so far, it’s been years, of Nothing.
      Down six figures as well.

      1. Beats has the highest profit margins of all the hardware items Apple sells. As for Apple Music, I don’t think that Apple is doing any worse than anyone else in the music space. The business model for the music industry is still in flux, and nobody really has figured out how to engage modern consumers. Personally I thin it sucks and would rather visit a good record store and buy music that way. It is not just middle-aged me that feels this way. My teen daughters agree with me that they would like to browse music that way.

  7. I now can hold my Apple shares for the rest of my life and the dividends will not even come close to earning back what I have lost on my Apple holdings in just 8 weeks!


    1. Hey, it’s only money. You still have your health, right?

      The saying still holds true, “You can’t go wrong by choosing Microsoft.” Microsoft must be worth tens of billions of dollars more in market cap than Apple by now. Microsoft shareholders are dancing in the street and laughing at Apple shareholders for their stupidity in trusting Tim Cook. Dammit, all to heck!

    2. Don’t worry Alan, you’re not alone, we’re in it together, but AAPL will bounce back, just matter of time, be patience, stay the course, in the end you will be happy you did. 🍷🎊🎈🎆
      BTW, while waiting for it to rebounce , we will collect dividends which is more shares for us. 👍😃

  8. Well, I think it’s a moot point, as Apple’s directors will inevitably start moving in that direction, as they can see the problems with products, stock market, and marketing.

    But Jobs groomed his heir. Probably knowing that Cook would be a great manager, but could never replace his charisma and vision. And he probably gave guidance to the directors at that point in time to start looking for the next person who might evolve into a Jobsian replacement.

    So if Apple’s directors aren’t prepared to replace Cook with someone who can point the company in a better direction, then Apple will enter the dark years again like it did with Sculley. And people can bandy about all their favorite names of other corporate leaders, but I don’t see Apple getting saved from the outside.

    Hopefully Apple has been working quietly on grooming someone from within to rise to the challenge.

    my 2 cents

      1. Steve did not appoint him to ceo though.
        I dont see Forstall as ceo material at all.

        Good in his own realm.. but not a leader of a company Apples size.

        What has he done since leaving Apple… produce a play and consult Square…
        Yup thats the kind of drive that will take Apple to the moon.

        I still believe Tim is the most qualified man available.
        And maybe this is a good wake up call for the whole team.

        Its not the end of the world.. its a missed quarter. It will be bumpy for a while.. but it sure is not the end of the world like some try to paint it.

        They will regroup and hopefully come back with a vengance !

        Plus it seems they did not buy too many shares in the past quarter.. maybe in anticipation of this additional bump.

        So lets see where the stock settles.. .. they have a huge opportunity to take advantage if this massive discount.

        1. You are misunderstanding my point: I’m not saying Forstall as CEO, I’m saying Jobs hired Forstall and Forstall got fired which means that not all Jobs hires is immune to underperformance or firing (and as Tim Cook did the firing, Cooks agrees with that assertion ).

        2. Backstory: Posted three times before my original response to KenT discussing the ABRUPT DISMISSAL of Apple GENUIS Scott Forstall, in response to another post that asked the EXACT same question. Here it is again:

          Most convincing, KenT. I suspected much the same when it went down forcing out a valuable legacy employee for a specious reason (Apple Maps).

          Scott Forstall has the tech chops and years of experience under Steve that Pipeline can only dream about. Wikipedia: “it had been reported that Forstall was trying to gather power to challenge Cook.” Threatened is the only logical reason Scott was forced out for a specious reason considering his resume and accomplishments.

          A recent MDN article quoted a former employee as he described the highly politicized atmosphere inside Apple under Cook. Constructive criticism valued by Steve is now out the window and treated unfavorably. That supports your theory Cook is a “ruthless” leader on the inside and mild mannered face on the outside.

          Reported Scott butted heads with Jony over issues such as FLAT iOS7 when Ive was promoted to SVP of design. Before that for many years Steve and Scott were working together as the Apple visual GURUS. So yes, Jobs always held him in the highest regard.

          More on Jony from Wikipedia: “Forstall had such a poor relationship with Ive and Mansfield that he could not be in a meeting with them unless Cook mediated; reportedly, Forstall and Ive did not cooperate at any level.” Scott knew the handwriting was on the wall as the power shift commenced. Also: “Forstall’s skeuomorphic design style, strongly advocated by former CEO Steve Jobs, was reported to have also been controversial and divided the Apple design team.” Translation: abstractionist Ive did not like it and won.

          Early career resume from Wikipedia: “Forstall joined Steve Jobs’s NeXT in 1992 and stayed when it was purchased by Apple in 1997. Forstall was then placed in charge of designing user interfaces for a reinvigorated Macintosh line. In 2000, Forstall became a leading designer of the Mac’s new Aqua user interface, known for its water-themed visual cues such as translucent icons and reflections, making him a rising star in the company.”

          Other career highlights:
          * Supervised the creation of the Safari web browser
          * Led the iPod team
          * Won fierce competition to create iOS
          * Responsible for creating a software developer’s kit for programmers to build iPhone apps
          * 2006 on responsible for Mac OS X releases
          * Took the stage launching the iPhone 4S to demonstrate first of a kind voice assistant Siri

          Wikipedia: “Forstall was very close to and referred to as a mini-Steve Jobs, so Jobs’ death left Forstall without a protector.
          Forstall was also referred to as the CEO-in-waiting by Fortune magazine and the book Inside Apple (written by Adam Lashinsky), a profile that made him unpopular at Apple.” Not a surprise. Power struggles are common in every workplace. Today, you don’t need a legitimate reason to force someone out to protect your own arse and your political buddies. Talent and experience has nothing to do with it if your manager is threatened.

          No one on planet Earth is more qualified for Apple CEO and has the creative tech resume than Scott Forstall. May the SECOND genius prodigal son return and lead Apple higher…

          1. Did you miss the part on Forstall’s wiki page where he hasn’t TOUCHED technology since leaving Apple? Either he’s an unmitigated technical genius that has turned down jobs year after year after year to keep his Broadway hobby going while he waits for Apple to call OR his technical worth to EVERY company in the industry is ZERO. He had NO tech experience BEFORE Steve, and he’s had none AFTER Steve. While others that have left Apple have gone on to be successful in other tech companies.

            I mean, even the head of IT for West Backwater Jr. High administering Chromebooks is doing more in tech than Scott Forstall right now. I’d ABSOLUTELY choose whoever the heck that is over Forstall.

      2. Yep, the F word. Apples slide started with that decision. Forstall had his issues but it was Tims choice between technical competence (Forstall) and design competence (Ive). He chose poorly.
        He should have made them work together.

        1. Pfft. Technical competence. Show me his technical competence. His “technical competence” started with Steve Jobs and ended with him. You know the type, pads out their resume with stuff they’ve “led”. From the wiki page again “willing to trust the instincts of his team and respecting their ability to develop the browser in secret.” A nice way of saying “get off our back, idiot, the team knows what we’re doing, you don’t” 🙂

          Google the name of most any other leader that left Apple and it was because they were pulled into another tech company or started their own so they can have full control of their vision. Forstall went to Broadway. You want someone who hasn’t worked in tech… worse has been on BROADWAY (you know, all the conservatives they have there) to run Apple?

  9. i’m an aapl investor and i’ve lost a bunch of money like many here over the last several weeks. I bought $10,000 more at 165 which seems so high now and I said i would have bought 50k if Steve Jobs was in charge. I poured every spare cent i had in 2008 after the crash.

    As an investor I don’t want to bash cook especially when the stock is down but it is necessary to discuss some issues

    1) Apple needs to get back to more fanatically product focus like when under Jobs. Steve Jobs famously even refused staffers request for a 30th Apple Annivesary bash because it would dilute the focus on new products!

    Go look at the number of social (i.e non tech related) awards Tim Cook has won from the Kennedy foundation, charities etc vs Jobs.
    As this is a sensitive issue for many SJW here i’ll not discuss this more except to point out a CEO of a failing company has no soapbox , nobody will invite him to make speeches on anything… Fix the products and the company and you will have a platform to speak…

    90% of Apple revenues come from products created by Jobs.

    Neglecting things like the Mac, Apple second largest hardware earner is unconscionable. Macs make more money than Watch, TV, Beats, Airpods, Ipod, Homepod etc COMBINED. Macs like the Mini weren’t updated for years and the 2013 Mac Pro is still absent. Stuck keyboards look like failing product commitment in adequate testing etc

    Cook didn’t;t even run a run any Mac advertising for years until recently not even cheap web ads. Not one ad vs Windows 8 fiasco. Jobs had one new Mac ad a month! I66 different mac pc guy ads in 4 years). This is insane. Imagine Ford not advertising its trucks at all.

    Cook’s lack of focus has lost entire markets like the Education Market allowing Chromebooks to go from zero to 70%. Years back i said they should have built a Chromebook killer with the ‘A’ processor running a MacOS variant (like IOS is a variant) as teachers have said clearly they wanted a keyboard device and not iPads. A variant netbook killer running a variant education OS would not have cannibalized Mac sales.

    Cook is now losing the Home automation and Smart Speaker markets.

    2) Cook needs a better grip on SVPS.

    Just last week Jony Ive was giving great ANOTHER interview on the campus. Note Tim Cook the Apple campus is NOT an Apple PRODUCT. enough of designer ceiling tiles, Coffee Table books and the (recent) Diamond Ring… !
    Ive has not spoken about Apple products like. the Mac or even the iPhone much at all, it’s practically all about furniture etc

    Eddy Cue falling asleep during SIRI meetings. And A.I according to most tech experts is the No.1 most important technology for the next 50 years….

    Schiller naming the iPhone Apple most important product because he likes the naming programs of certain sports cars !
    Schiller as marketing chief must also be responsible for misunderstanding the market in product pricing and misinterpreting the China market.

    The SVP situation is so bad that Cook has to hire advertising guys like Tor Myhren to report directly to him instead of marketing chief Schiller and to make the Google A.I guy in charge of SIRI into a SVP.

    i can say more but my post is long already.

      1. are you suggesting Apple is going to abandon the Mac market?

        like I said ” Macs make more money than Watch, TV, Beats, Airpods, iPod, Homepod etc COMBINED.”

        Leaving the Mac Market makes sense to you?

        I’ve been arguing with ‘Post PC’ people for half a decade or more and Mac STILL makes more money than iPad (besides all the other products above).

        exiting the Mac market would make Apple management more stupid even that the most vocal critics here suggest.

        If they HAD good updates and advertised for the half decade, imagine the great piles of extra cash they would have now. They could have taken big chunks of the Win 8 fiasco market.

        1. To answer your question, I’d point to the Apple ][ which was KING and made more money than Mac in the early years. The Mac had a long way to go before it replaced the Apple ][ and, when the Apple ][ was discontinued, there were still gaps… things the Apple ][ could do better and, in some cases, cheaper than the Mac. That didn’t stop Apple from killing it though.

          Anyone who looks at the current situation of Apple not advertising Macs and comes away with the conclusion that they just “forgot” just wants to ignore the big picture.

          Apple are positioning themselves to provide systems for developers of iOS apps and users of their Pro Apps… you don’t have to advertise to these folks, if they want to keep using Logic Pro, they’ll be getting the next Mac. If they’re going to be developing iOS apps, they’re going to be using a Mac.

          Most consumer users just need email and Safari and iOS does both of those things in a form factor that’s able to be always on if you opt for the cellular model. If Apple comes out with an LTE Mac, then there would be time to take a revised look at their recent activities. Until then, I expect Apple to sell more Macs to folks that never had a Mac before (51% currently), leading them to sell roughly the same year over year until sales eventually trend downward.

  10. There’s sure problems. The list is annoying. Macs of all stripes priced higher and higher to boost revenue, eliminating the entry level markets. Machines that take 5 years to update, when they can spit out new iPhones each year. New phones each year that are just slightly incrementally better but for which they want you to replace each year (I am SO sick and tired of the phrase “This is the best Mac/phone/software we’ve ever shipped.” Really? I thought this year would be the year you stepped back and shipped a product that was not as good as the product you shipped 3 years ago). Missed product niches (iPhone SE form factor, entry level computers, WiFi base stations). Cook admitting to product pipeline problems for machines when he’s a product pipeline specialist. An obsession with thinness that costs battery life and product utility (and creates bug eyed cameras). No focus.

    Is Cook the only problem? Nope. Software suffered under Ivy. Ivy hasn’t delivered a breakthrough design of anything in years (and still is conspicuously absent for every Mac event). Shiller’s banal marketing is poor; the latest iPhone XR ad features hoards of people running around in jumpsuits — really makes me wanna buy a phone. The hardware team are the guys responsible for the dismal inability to put a faster chip in a device more frequently than once every 5 years, and for the heat problems in the Pro. The 2010 iPad is the same iPad as today’s iPad. The software team likes bloat. The endless rapid iOS updates simply accelerate product obsolescence. Sorry, but there hasn’t been a feature out into the last 5 gens of iOS or MacOS software that I use or care about (animojis? Are we designing for 12 year olds?)

    Apple’s stuck. It was stuck before. Gil Amelio was in charge. Jobs came in and shook it up. It needs shaking up again.

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