President Trump tells Apple CEO Cook that U.S. needs comprehensive immigration reform

“Apple’s top executive asked President Donald Trump to show more compassion in his immigration policy and reassure immigrant workers in the technology community that they are welcome in the U.S.,” Will Racke reports for The Daily Caller. “Tim Cook, visiting the White House Monday along with fellow Silicon Valley power players, told Trump that the technology sector is “nervous” about the administration’s tough stance on immigration enforcement, CNBC reported.”

“Cook reportedly brought up the administration’s proposed travel ban, which he said could affect the families of some Apple employees, and the Deferred Action For Childhood Arrivals (DACA) program, the temporary amnesty for the children of illegal immigrants that Trump promised to cancel but has thus far kept in place,” Racke reports. “Between scheduled discussions over cloud computing and procurement systems, Cook implored Trump to soften his rhetoric on immigration issues.”

Apple CEO Tim Cook (left) and U.S. President Donal Trump at  American Technology Council meeting on June 19, 2017 (photo:  Nicholas Kamm/AFP/Getty)
Apple CEO Tim Cook (left) and U.S. President Donal Trump at American Technology Council meeting on June 19, 2017 (photo: Nicholas Kamm/AFP/Getty)

Racke reports, “[Cook] said technology employees need a ‘clear signal’ that they won’t be targeted by the administration’s immigration policies, New York Times White House Correspondent Maggie Haberman reported late Monday night”

Cook “has also publicly supported the continuation of the DACA, which Trump has maintained despite repeated promises to rescind program,” Racke reports. “Technology industry executives are also concerned with the future of the H-1B visa program, which allows American companies to hire foreign guest workers with advanced skills if they can’t find them domestically. Trump has called out firms that bring in foreign labor at lower salaries to replace U.S. employees, and in April he ordered the Departments of State, Justice, and Labor to suggest reforms to the H-1B system that will prevent the displacement of American workers.”

“Though Trump didn’t specifically address the H-1B visa program Monday, he did reassure the technology executives he wants to make sure that the U.S. immigration system benefits American technology companies,” Racke reports. “Trump echoed in those comments in his one-on-one asides with Cook, saying that Congress needs to work on “comprehensive” immigration reform.”

Read more in the full article here.

MacDailyNews Take: President Trump’s Executive Order on Buy American and Hire American, signed on April 18, 2017, can be read in full here.

The following editorial was published by The New York Times‘ Editorial Board, June 16, 2016, five months prior to the U.S. Presidential election:

Visa Abuses Harm American Workers

There is no doubt that H-1B visas — temporary work permits for specially talented foreign professionals — are instead being used by American employers to replace American workers with cheaper foreign labor. Abbott Laboratories, the health care conglomerate based in Illinois, recently became the latest large American company to use the visas in this way, following the lead of other employers, including Southern California Edison, Northeast Utilities (now Eversource Energy), Disney, Toys “R” Us and New York Life.

The visas are supposed to be used only to hire college-educated foreigners in “specialty occupations” requiring “highly specialized knowledge,” and only when such hiring will not depress prevailing wages. But in many cases, laid-off American workers have been required to train their lower-paid replacements.

Lawmakers from both parties have denounced the visa abuse, but it is increasingly widespread, mainly because of loopholes in the law. For example, in most instances, companies that hire H-1B workers are not required to recruit Americans before hiring from overseas. Similarly, companies are able to skirt the rules for using H-1B workers by outsourcing the actual hiring of those workers to Tata, Infosys and other temporary staffing firms, mostly based in India.

Criticism of the visa process has been muted, and reform has moved slowly, partly because laid-off American workers — mostly tech employees replaced by Indian guest workers — have not loudly protested. Their reticence does not mean acceptance or even resignation. As explained in The Times on Sunday by Julia Preston, most of the displaced workers had to sign agreements prohibiting them from criticizing their former employers as a condition of receiving severance pay. The gag orders have largely silenced the laid-off employees, while allowing the employers to publicly defend their actions as legal, which is technically accurate, given the loopholes in the law.

The conversation, however, is changing. Fourteen former tech workers at Abbott, including one who forfeited a chunk of severance pay rather than sign a so-called nondisparagement agreement, have filed federal claims with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission saying they were discriminated against because of their ages and American citizenship. Tech workers from Disney have filed federal lawsuits accusing the company and two global outsourcing firms of colluding to supplant Americans with H-1B workers. Former employees of Eversource Energy have also begun to challenge their severance-related gag orders by publicly discussing their dismissals and replacement by foreign workers on H-1B and other visas.

Congressional leaders of both parties have questioned the nondisparagement agreements. Bipartisan legislation in the Senate would revise visa laws to allow former employees to protest their layoffs. Beyond that, what Congress really needs to do is close the loopholes that allow H-1B abuses.

The New York Times‘ Editorial Board, June 16, 2016

President Trump advisor Kushner: Government must move past floppies, Y2K and ‘unleash the creativity of the private sector’ – June 19, 2017
President Trump to meet with Apple CEO Cook, other tech execs on cutting government waste, improving services – June 19, 2017
Apple CEO Cook, other tech CEOs to attend President Trump’s Jared Kushner-led summit – June 9, 2017
Apple CEO Tim Cook pressured to follow Elon Musk and leave President’s Council over Paris Agreement kerfuffle – June 2, 2017
Apple CEO Cook slams President Trump’s decision to withdraw from climate deal; says it’s ‘wrong for our planet’ – June 1, 2017
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Apple signs on to full page ‘open letter’ ad urging President Trump to keep U.S. in Paris Agreement on climate change – June 1, 2017
U.S. law allows low H-1B wages; just look at Apple – May 16, 2017
Apple CEO Cook calls President Trump as Elon Musk threatens to quit White House advisory councils over Paris decision – May 31, 2017
President Trump leaning toward exiting Paris climate change agreement despite Apple, others urging U.S. to remain in deal – May 31, 2017
President Trump to order review of H-1B visa program to encourage hiring Americans – April 18, 2017
Apple to stick with environmental pledges despite President Trump’s gutting of Obama’s climate change orders – March 30, 2017
Tech industry frets over possible H-1B visa program changes under President Trump – January 28, 2017
President Trump eyes an H-1B visa aimed at ‘best and brightest’ – January 27, 2017
Silicon Valley chiefs frozen out of President Trump’s White House – December 3, 2016
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Silicon Valley donated 60 times more to Clinton than to Trump – November 7, 2016
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Apple CEO Tim Cook and the rest of Silicon Valley throw big money at Clinton and pretty much bupkis at Trump – August 23, 2016
Donald Trump’s most unlikely supporter: Silicon Valley billionaire Pete Thiel – July 21, 2016
Tech investor Peter Thiel’s embrace of Donald Trump for U.S. President has Silicon Valley squirming – July 20, 2016
An open letter from Apple co-founder Woz, other techies on Donald Trump’s candidacy for U.S. President – July 14, 2016
Apple refuses to aid 2016 GOP presidential convention over Trump comments – June 18, 2016
Apple and Silicon Valley employees love Bernie Sanders. Donald Trump? Not so much – May 6, 2016
Trump: We’ll get Apple to manufacture ‘their damn computers and things’ in the U.S.A. – January 18, 2016


      1. Apple and others only became worried when Trump’s Nazi immigration executive orders began scaring off tech foreign workers which affects all their bottom lines.

        1. Nazi? It’s US law. Open borders is a communist Clinton wealth-redistribution fiction.

          Americans built Silicon Valley long before TEMPORARY GUEST WORKERS overstayed by 15 years and never left as promised.

          Hitler’s Mein Kampf BTW is now a best selling in Indian bookstores. Google it.

          India Incs have been looting the USA into the ground by bringing in millions of non-taxpaying L1 visa holders who caused the massive budget deficit because they pay no income taxes, unlike the American tech workers they replace.

        2. Be very, very, careful here. You could influence Libtards heads to explode particularly after providing facts and the rule of law.

          On second thought — NOT! 😆

        3. Nazi? What goes around comes around.

          Infosys senior level meetings: “We will dump 6 million Indians in US and capture their entire IT market and no American will ever come to know about this. We will throw these Americans out of their own country. They don’t know what we are doing over here”

          Don’t forget the INDIAN-ONLY Tata scholarships @ Cornell:

          Oh – and the 100% PERCENT INDIAN-ONLY company CGI that worked on the Obamacare website.

          Nazi much?

    1. I suppose that you understand immigration as a whole? Perhaps you can explain immigration to us and what we should believe? Perhaps you can explain why you apparently know more than a multinational corporate who has long term experience with immigration.

      As far as Trump’s statement, who can argue with it. Of course we need comprehensive immigration reform. The problem is, it appears to be impossible to get anything comprehensive and well-debated and reasoned out of this Administration and Congress. Instead, they want to make major “reforms” in days or weeks, often behind closed doors and with as little public scrutiny as possible. And, of course, with no participation at all from non-Republicans, because those other people are the “enemy.”

      Before everyone gets lost in this fog of hypocrisy, please consider that the Obamacare legislation took many months and included Republican participation as well as a large number of Republican amendments, and also included a number of floor debates and other sessions. And *still* the Republicans complained about it.

      Contrast that with the incredibly hasty and secretive partisan ongoing effort to gut Obamacare to create tax cuts for the wealthy and the hypocrisy practically slaps you in the face. Trump apparently doesn’t care what passes – he supported the first version, then claimed that the second version was even better (it wasn’t). Now he calls the second version “mean.” Occasionally he played the “trust us” card that whatever passed would be improved over time. It is incredible to me how many people are swallowing this bunk from Trump.

      1. You have definitely been drinking the Kool-Aid. It’s a tad more complicated than that, and as far as I’m concerned, a freaking CEO has no business bringing these types of concerns to the President, whomever they may be. Tim Cook may be great for Apple’s bottom line, he is a failure as a thinking human being. I wish the Fed would regulate the living poop out of Cook and his ilk.

      2. “Perhaps you can explain why you apparently know more than a multinational corporate who has long term experience with immigration.”

        Corporations know nothing of immigration. They only know the H1B program allows them to bring in so many tech foreign workers. These foreign workers work for a fraction of the US worker. It’s just like outsourcing jobs to a foreign country. The H1B program brings in foreign workers in many industries including those who pick the food form the ground which we consume.

        Illegal immigration has been with us for many generations. As I said, it is they who pick our food from the ground. It is only recently that the racist, sexual predator and Russian spy Trump and others in the GOP have many illegal immigrants into the boggy man. The weak condition of our economy has nothing to do with illegal immigration.

        Trump as well as the GOP idea and solution for immigration reform begins and ends with the border wall. Obama had to use executive orders to do the little he did under immigration becasue of the do nothing missing in action GOP congress refused to act.

        The GOP immigration plan is build the next Great Wall of China border wall that will cost billions to construct and cost hundreds of millions to maintain. Of course corporations will build and maintain it which is all the GOP care about. They take care of corporations and in turn they take care of the GOP.

        America is dead. It is owned and now operated by corporations lead by Russian puppets.

      3. Because it’s all illegal if Americans are unemployed.

        Title 8, Section 1182 Inadmissible Aliens, Subsection 5 for starters.

        Open borders is a Clinton-created communist fiction and has no basis in US law. If Americans are available, they must be hired first. Period.

        When you hear “reform” know that NASSCOM and India Incs are behind it and any reform will simply mean any remaining restrictions on the India Inc Indian Mafia looters will be swept away, allowing then unrestricted access to move in and clean out what remains of the US economy and carry it back to India as they laugh at how stupid we Americans are.

  1. Sour puss Tim. My goodness, does he have to show it on his sleeve?

    I don’t think the photographer did this on purpose or did he. Maybe Tim is just a sour puss more than we know.

  2. Cook. Do something novel for a change. Knock off the lib greasy talking points that your queen Hillary got beat by, close that hole up in your face, and concentrate on making great products. Announcing an iMac Pro a half year before it is even built is the kind of thing that Jobs would have fired your ass for.

    1. I thought there already were built prototypes of the new Mac out by now? Am I hearing wrong information? And Trump’s policies do indeed affect Apple, and many other companies based out of the US. It would be very short-sightednof Cook to not approach Trump with his concerns.

        1. You are clearly not from around here.

          Tim Cook is the CEO of the largest market-cap publicly traded company in the world. He has responsibility to his shareholders. It is his fiduciary duty to take position on issues and influence presidents (American, Chinese, French…) and prime ministers (UK, Japanese, Canadian…).

          And as an American citizen with an outsized influence, it is his own personal moral obligation to use such influence with people who hold political power for the betterment of other American citizens.

        2. yeah well, his genius predecessor kept his politics to himself and didn’t use his company as a vehicle for virtue signaling.
          F Pipeline T and f you.

        3. “For the betterment of American citizens” by flooding America with cheap foreign labor? Leftism is a mental disorder, The Wall should be built with a million padded cells.

        4. No US corporation is above the law. All the major US companies and the looting India Incs are ALL breaking US law. Title 8, namely, not to mention EEOC and US Civil Rights Acts. Foreign workers have no civil rights under those laws. US citizens do. What part of TEMPORARY GUEST don’t you get? I don’t care how big the company is, they are not above the law. And Apple can afford it – it now makes over $1 million in profit per employee. It could double everyone’s pay in the company and it wouldn’t even dent profits. Apple is just another ever-profit-increasing Wall St lapdog. The next step will be outright slavery to increase profits, if Wall St can get away with it. This has to end at some point.

        5. Hey botty, the shareholders vote every year for corporate directors. If you don’t like the dramatic power of corporations, you should advocate for more regulations on large companies that ensure fair markets and opportunities for small businesses. But you don’t, you believe in trickle down. your hypocrisy reeks of trumpian ignorance. The more you whine about globalism and politics, the more you show you don’t understand. Your incessant parroting of America first economics based on trumpian isolationism, the more you show how America will fall behind. Relying on market protection and border militarization breeds complacency mediocrity and decline. History proves this over and over. If you want America to be great and have jobs, American needs trading partners, an influx of new ideas, and a steady stream of immigrants who work hard.

          Maybe you and trump should stop bitching about immigrants and start retraining lazy American kids, opiod addicts, and hash dealers. Native problem no matter how you try to pin it on every one else. So where is the trump plan or budget proposal for education and job training? No, instead trump wants a bigger military and a goddamn wall on one border. Neither will kickstart the economy.

        6. “If you want America to be great and have jobs, American needs trading partners, an influx of new ideas, and a steady stream of immigrants who work hard.”

          America already has trading partners. Unfortunately a lot of deals were cut by Democrat leaders who do not understand business. President Trump is working on it.

          We don’t need a steady stream of hard working immigrants. America already has a steady stream of unemployed and untrained workers. President Trump is working on it.

          “Maybe you and trump should stop bitching about immigrants and start retraining lazy American kids, opiod addicts, and hash dealers.”

          That’s President Trump. Please respect the office even if you disagree with his policies. Probably too much to ask, I know.

          Why should American children need to be retrained? We have the finest education system in the world, right?

          Wrong. We spend over TWICE AS MUCH OF ALL G7 nations and consistently for decades we have the lowest test scores. Sacred cows and Democrat reality do not get called out in the lame stream media.

          Regarding drug abuse — wasn’t it the enlightened Democrats of the Woodstock generation that made it cool to get high, break laws, disrespect and protest law enforcement, and create a template for lifetime loser living. And you are asking President Trump to fix your mess and offer zero support and mock him at every turn?!?

          Yeah, what a brilliant working strategy …

        7. Funny but before we opened trade with communist China and India the US had full employment, a tax surplus, and a booming economy. 20 years of trading with enemies hasn’t help the US or its economy. It’s helped a few corporations amass all the wealth in the country. Govt is $22 trillion in debt and bankrupt. 95 million Americans are out of work. Millions lost their homes because they had their jobs stolen by cheap foreign labor. Companies want CAPTIVE workers that can’t hop jobs. H1B provides that. India and China have never invented anything and are big zeros on immigration. Apple was 95% white before Steve died.

          Americans created Silicon valley long before remittance-hungry looters on the H1B industrial spy program arrived. Non-resident Indians remit $12 BILLION in cash out of the US annually in stolen tech worker wages.

          A full $10 trillion – half the national debt – has been lifted out by Asian looters in just 20 years.

          How Record Immigration Levels Robbed American High-Tech Workers of $10 Trillion
          By Gene A. Nelson, Ph.D

          Tim has no idea what he is talking about. Sounds like the Indian Mafia got to him too.

        8. We already have regulations. Such as Title 8 and EEOC laws. All of which go unenforced. No US corporation is above the law.

  3. Damn straight we do!

    In 2005, a left-leaning blogger wrote, “Illegal immigration wreaks havoc economically, socially, and culturally; makes a mockery of the rule of law; and is disgraceful just on basic fairness grounds alone.”

    In 2006, a liberal columnist wrote that “immigration reduces the wages of domestic workers who compete with immigrants” and that “the fiscal burden of low-wage immigrants is also pretty clear.” His conclusion: “We’ll need to reduce the inflow of low-skill immigrants.”

    That same year, a Democratic senator wrote, “When I see Mexican flags waved at pro-immigration demonstrations, I sometimes feel a flush of patriotic resentment. When I’m forced to use a translator to communicate with the guy fixing my car, I feel a certain frustration.”

    The blogger was Glenn Greenwald. The columnist was Paul Krugman. The senator was Barack Obama.

    How the Democrats Lost Their Way on Immigration: In the past decade, liberals have avoided inconvenient truths about the issue – Peter Beinart, The Atlantic, July/August Issue

  4. We do need immigration in an orderly and fair fashion. America is a nation of immigrants and their descendants.

    America also needs to take care of our own people first.

    Maybe we could give a tax break to companies willing to pay for the training of Americans willing and capable of filling jobs they lack the experience and training for.

  5. Few, if any of you actually hire engineers and high end programmers. For every one American, there are 20 foreign nationals. The talent simply doesn’t exist. We’ve gotten lazy, fair and simple. You guys complain about a foreign national taking your job but you are near as talented or educated. You complain about libtards but you want the same entitlements. Ridiculous…the companies want to hire the best PERIOD. They don’t care who you are or where you came from. You stop the visas and it will move more jobs off shore actually.

    1. “Few, if any of you actually hire engineers and high end programmers. For every one American, there are 20 foreign nationals. The talent simply doesn’t exist. We’ve gotten lazy, fair and simple.”

      Fair and simple, agreed.

      The laziness comes from the welfare state, “I feel your pain” policies from the Democrat party locking in automatic votes and allergic to responsibility, fair and simple.

      The U.S. tech workforce DEFICIT is also incumbent on the Democrat party teaching our kids PC hogwash and clueless to the needs of students, fair and simple, to compete and evolve in the workplace in the 21st century … 🤔

    2. CD,

      Don’t let the comments get you down. There is a cadre here who don’t want to be confused with facts.

      They are under the impression that Apple and other hi-tech companies are hiring foreign engineers and programmers because they are cheap, not because they are the best (and sometimes the only) candidates for the job. You and I know that if the companies just wanted to save money, they would move the jobs offshore where the lower prevailing wages and cost of living would allow paying coders a fraction of what it costs to import those same individuals to America.

      You and I know that food and housing in Silicon Valley or Austin is spectacularly higher than in Chennai, and costs foreigners the same as citizens (creating a floor on wages). The critics will reply with the racist comment that university-educated Indians in highly-skilled professional positions are used to living six to a room in a hovel. Actually, they are more likely to have grown up in a household with servants than their American colleagues, but that is just a confusing fact.

      Everybody here has a friend of a friend’s cousin who lost his job to a “less-qualified” imported worker. You and I know that Apple and its industry just want to hire the most qualified and most highly motivated workers available. Sadly, all the best American engineers already have jobs. All that’s left are losers like the aforementioned guy who lost his job to somebody who was willing to work harder and smarter… and who happens not to be an American citizen.

      They think that Apple ought to be going out of its way to fix the American economy. You and I know that the Directors and Officers do not have a fiduciary duty toward the United States. They do have a duty to the corporation, which includes the duty to hire the best worker for any given position, without preselecting candidates for their race, gender, nationality, or sexual orientation. Once hired, the company needs the ability to move employees wherever they are the most needed, including the ability to move them across national boundaries.

      You and I know that Tim Cook does not personally design or build Apple’s products. Apple employees do that, and since Apple is a multinational corporation that makes most of its revenue overseas, a high proportion of Apple employees are not American citizens. When it hires the most qualified available job candidates, many of them are likewise not American citizens. The company’s ability to lawfully move those employees in and out of America is not some sort of political sideshow. It is critical to Apple’s business and a crucial matter of concern for Apple’s CEO, not a distraction from his responsibilities.

      Unemployment and underemployment in America have nothing to do with Apple, and Apple (sadly) cannot do much to aid them. Hiring unqualified Americans would be bad for the company, bad for its existing workforce, and ultimately bad for America. What could help the situation would be for Americans who find themselves out of work to obtain the training for jobs that actually exist, rather than rely on their experience mining coal or fabricating buggy whips.

      As our President constantly reminds us, the national unemployment rate is about as low as it can get (without generating inflationary pressure that will lead the Federal Reserve System to raise interest rates enough to cool the economy and force the last-hired to become the first-fired). There are, however, poverty pockets where unemployment is much, much higher. Why is the Government encouraging those folks to stay put and wait for jobs that are never coming back, rather than retraining and going where the jobs now are?

      The answer, of course, is politics. The Electoral College system has given the residents of those poverty pockets a disproportionate influence on national elections. They are more likely to vote for somebody who promises them that coal and buggy whips are coming back than for somebody who delivers the bad news that Big Brother is not going to help them unless they help themselves.

      Example: The mayor of Pittsburgh has pointed out that the local coal-based economy bottomed out almost two decades ago and has been replaced by modern industries. Since more people locally are employed in “green industries” than in those reliant on fossil fuels, pulling out of the Paris Accords actually did more harm to Pittsburgh than to Paris. Try to sell that fact to the ex-miners who are waiting for the Republican Party to deliver on its promise to get their jobs back, no matter the consequences for anybody else.

      Like you, I never fail to be astonished at those who claim to be conservatives while favoring massive government intervention in the free movement of goods, money, and talent across the country and across its borders.

        1. For the benefit of those who just read the headlines, these articles conclude as follows:

          The surplus of STEM graduates over STEM hires does not reflect an oversupply of skilled American workers anxious to work in those fields. It simply means that STEM has replaced liberal arts as the “universal degree.” As with history majors of old, many (perhaps most) graduates choose careers in other fields such as medicine, law, finance, or business administration.

          If there were really a surplus of qualified Americans for STEM job openings, salaries would be rising much faster than they actually are. And, no, there isn’t enough “cheap immigrant labor” at the higher skill levels to make up the difference.

          The interesting implication is what it will mean for American society when most of our educated citizens have STEM backgrounds and minimal exposure to the liberal arts.

    1. You don’t know the 1/2 of it. India Incs are looting most STEM jobs in USA. Americans are TRAINING them. Just ask Disney.

      PhD degrees can be bought in a Punjab garage for $300. exposed the entire massive fraud.

      InfoSys is being sued by a former US manager because it was discovered they hired 94% south Indian nationals on H1B.

      95 million Americans are out of work looking for jobs. They can’t ALL be unskilled in STEM.

  6. US companies including Apple are too lazy to train US workers and instead pilfer workers already trained by other nations but who settle for Android type of of low wage salaries that replace well paid salaries which is an injustice.

    1. Companies don’t train people. Schools and universities do. You don’t go to Apple to learn C++ or Objective C, or Swift. You get yourself a university degree in computer science, where you take courses in these languages.

      Apple, Netflix, Facebook, Uber, they don’t pay people to learn. They pay people to write code and develop software (or hardware). In order to get a job at Apple, you must already know how to write code.

      And this is where other America tends to fail. There aren’t enough people who are truly committed to the specific STEM fields that are needed by the American tech companies. Meanwhile, Russia, China, Pakistan, and especially India, are rapidly churning out very strongly trained and sharply focused engineers with the specific skill sets that are precisely what American IT companies need to stay competitive.

      Let us not forget; these countries, together, have population that dwarfs that of the US. From that combined population, only a very small fraction of the most skilled, best trained engineers end up trying to get jobs in the US. While that number may be a fraction of their engineering population, it is a fairly large number, compared to the engineers that US produces.

      In other words, China, India, Russia are spending their own resources to train engineers, and the tiny sliver of the best of the best end up taking their skills and bringing them to the US.

      There is only one way that these engineers may be affecting the labour market for this type of work in the US. By the nature of the demand and supply, the availability of competitively trained engineers for a specific kind of IT work in Northern California can reduce the grossly inflated compensation packages that these companies had to start offering in order to attract extremely scarce talent. When we compare engineering pay across various engineering fields, we quickly discover that a specific type of software development ends up disproportionately higher paid than any other engineering job (electrical, construction, automotive, biochemical, civil…).

      Foreign workers are simply meeting the demands that the national market is unable to satisfy.

  7. What’s real and what’s propaganda, regarding ANYTHING The Trump says, the Republican Party says, the Democrat Party says…

    The effort is to hide reality behind rhetoric. If the USA is going to become an intelligent country with qualified technology workers, this propaganda crap has got to end.

    Witness China: Massive investment in ‘education’ with extremely little to show for it. Their propaganda driven ‘communist’ government offers no incentive. Therefore, citizens turn to the incentive of crime. Is that what we want to happen in the USA? That’s what we’re going to get.

    1. I’d love to be able to agree with you, and partly I do, but the comparison with China leaves me quite perplexed.

      China’s ‘education’ has little to show for it? Their academic achievement seems significantly ahead of OECD countries, and even further ahead from US, in all categories (math, reading, science), with averages above 600 for math and just a bit below 600 for reading and science, vs. well below 500 in all three in the USA. As for crime, in vast majority of categories, US crime rates per capita are significantly higher than in China (many 3x, 5x, 10x higher). The few categories where China leads are copyright infringement, software piracy and similar well-known intellectual property issues.

      There are quite many things where US would benefit from following China. Education and crime are actually both good examples.

      1. I entirely agree that, setting aside their negative reinforcement discipline system, that China is WAY ahead of the USA in ‘STEM’ education. Their problem is creativity.

        Totalitarian systems are known for their lack of incentive for creativity, most particularly the so-called ‘Communist’ systems. If everything of mine is also your’s, incentive to create is essentially D E A D . And that’s exactly what occurs in China. Instead, it’s crime that provides incentive. Thus China-the-copy-cat-culture remains standard over there.

        Thankfully, there are some excellent exceptions. A couple examples that I appreciate are KENTLI, who is the first company to provide rechargable 1.5 volt AA and AAA Lithium polymer batteries. I also like the Lepow brand of batteries for USB device charging. These two companies are exceptional amidst the wash of me-to crud for which China is currently famous.

        BTW: I’m not comparing any country’s crime rates. I’m also not discussing jail. I’m discussing ripping off pre-existing IP as common in China. I’m talking about their vast black market. I’m talking about the inevitability that any so-called ‘communist’ system will rapidly collapse into a criminal nation, as viewed from creative countries, such as the USA. (I hope we stay that way!)

        And NO, emulating China’s hard core, negative reinforcement education system OR it’s crime-oriented culture are the OPPOSITE of what would benefit the USA.

        I can chatter on about the subject, but I think I’m made my points. I simply hope you comprehend the ingrained, stolid negativity that is inherent in the current Chinese culture. The examples are plentiful. Watch what’s going on in Hong Kong right now, where stupid China is oppressing their creativity and demands for freedom. Witness what remains of the Tibetan culture. It’s sick and horrifying IMHO.

        “The Great Firewall of China” must come down.

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