“Private Microsoft emails unearthed during a US court case have revealed that even the software giant’s own executives struggled to get Windows Vista running smoothly,” Asher Moses reports or The Age.
“Early adopters of the operating system, which launched last year, battled with widespread hardware and software compatibility issues. Many PCs initially sold as ‘Vista Capable’ were unable to run some of Vista’s core features, sparking a class action lawsuit against Microsoft,” Moses reports.
“One executive, Mike Nash, complained he was ‘burned’ so badly by compatibility issues he was left with ‘a $2100 email machine,'” Moses reports.
“Steven Sinofsky, the Microsoft executive in charge of Windows, struggled to even get his home printer working with Vista. In an email to Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer in February last year, Sinofsky outlined reasons why Vista struggled at launch,” Moses reports. “He said hardware and software vendors never ‘really believed we would ever ship [Vista] so they didn’t start the work [on updated drivers] until very late in 2006.'”
“‘People who rely on using all the features of their hardware (like Jon’s Nikon scanner) will not see availability for some time, if ever, depending on the [manufacturer],” Sinofsky wrote,” Moses reports. “Ballmer responded with a terse “Righto.'”
Full article here.
Gregg Keizer reports for Computerworld, “Last-minute changes to Windows Vista broke drivers, forcing key hardware vendors to ‘limp out with issues’ when the operating system launched last year, according to a presentation by Dell Inc. that was made public this week. ‘Late OS code changes broke drivers and applications, forcing key commodities to miss launch or limp out with issues,’ said one slide in a Dell presentation dated March 25, 2007, about two months after Vista’s launch at retail and availability on new PCs.”
“In August 2005, Gretchen Miller, Dell’s director of mobile marketing — responsible for the Texas company’s laptop marketing — gave feedback to Microsoft on its Vista programs,” Keizer reports. “‘[The dual logo] adds another level of complexity to an already complex story, which in turn will create confusion for our customers, both corporate and consumer,’ said Miller in an e-mail. Although Dell advised Microsoft to scale back the logos, the software developer eventually went ahead with its plans for two stickers, one that announced a PC was ‘Vista Capable,’ the other advertising that the system was ‘Vista Premium Ready.'”
Full article here.
Tom Krazit reports for CNET, “As far back as 2005, Microsoft executives knew that confusing hardware requirements for the Windows Vista Capable program might get them in trouble. But they did it anyway–over the objection of PC makers–at the behest of Intel, according to e-mails released as part of a class-action lawsuit pending against Microsoft.”
Krazit reports, “A treasure trove of e-mails has been released as part of that case, and the Seattle Post-Intelligencer’s Todd Bishop has spotlighted a number of e-mails that call into question whether Microsoft was acting, at least in part, on Intel’s behalf when it set the requirements for the Vista Capable marketing program.”
Full article, with links, here.
[Thanks to MacDailyNews Readers “Big Pete” and “Erik” for the heads up.]
MacDailyNews Take: The fact that Apple’s Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger runs on an old indigo iMac G3/400Mhz/192MB RAM circa 2000 with nearly all of the meaningful Aqua graphics intact (we do have to forgo the ripple when dropping Widgets on the Dashboard) while Vista can’t run its derivative, less productive, and obviously massively inefficient Aero graphics even on new PCs neatly highlights Apple’s insurmountable lead.
Of course, all tech leads are insurmountable when those distantly trailing only know how to copy the leader poorly, not innovate on their own.
People sometimes notice that old indigo iMac in the corner of our office and ask why we don’t get rid of it. Why should we? It only gets faster with each successive Mac OS X release.
[UPDATE: 5:35pm EST: Added excerpts from and link to CNET article. Fixed Take to reflect that Tiger is running on that old iMac, not Leopard. The point we are making remains exactly the same as Tiger’s UI easily exceeds that of Windows.]
[UPDATE: 9:12am EST: Removed reference to possible future install of Leopard on the old iMac as Leopard does not support G3 processors.]
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Mercury News: There’s never been a better time to switch to Apple Mac – February 19, 2008
Chris Pirillo: 50 Reasons to switch from Microsoft Windows to Apple’s Mac OS X – February 18, 2008
InfoWorld: Time to dump Microsoft’s Windows and ‘Get a Mac?’ – February 18, 2008
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Laptop Magazine offers online Windows to Mac Switcher’s Guide – January 30, 2008
Microsoft’s Windows Vista: Your Frustration. Our Fault. – January 30, 2008
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Microsoft employees leaving due to (and blogging about) malaise smothering company – April 25, 2005
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Apple CEO Steve Jobs: Mac OS X Tiger ‘is going to drive the copycats crazy – June 28, 2004
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Apple takes dead aim at Microsoft, ‘Longhorn’ with WWDC Mac OS X 10.4 ‘Tiger’ ads – June 28, 2004
PC Magazine: Microsoft ‘Longhorn’ preview shows ‘an Apple look’ – May 06, 2004
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PC world did an X300 v Air comparison and came up with this gem.
OS
Hey, we’re not called PC World for nothing. Air’s Leopard is cute, and secure, and its back-up software is very 2001: A Space Odyssey. But we prefer to live in the wider world opened by the X300’s Windows Vista. Of course, the likes of Bootcamp now let you run Windows on a Mac and, for the really pervese, Hackintosh will put the MacOS on a PC. But for best performance, keep things native.
Winner: X300
Get the full story here. http://blogs.pcworld.co.nz/pcworld/ck-live/2008/02/lenovo_walks_on_air.html
Nuf said!
According to the MDN Take, they are running leapord on a 400 mhz G3 processor right. I’m pretty sure the requirement for this is a processor that runs at a highler clock speed than that. There is a dual 500mhz G4 tower we have here at work that wouldn’t install leapord because it was saying the processor were not fast enough? Is there a work-around for this? If there is, let me know so we can get that computer up to date.
{burns}
Excellent.
{/burns}
“But for best performance, keep things native.”
What’s less native about running Windows on an Intel processor in a computer built by Apple vs. one built by Dell?
Yeah, I thought so.
Confused one:
You can install Leopard on a hard drive in a compatible machine then simply swapping it out.
Suck on that MAC dorks!
By the way if anyone has a copy of leopard on a spare hard drive they have knocking about, can I have it? My two machines are a G4 400MHz AGP (Under-specced) and an intel MacBook (No HD swapping) so I don’t think I can do it myself? Or can I do it with ‘Target disc mode’?
Regarding MDN take, I find it completely absurd that 10.5 runs on anything less than an Intel-based Mac or PowerPC G5. Sure it runs fantastic on my MacBook Pro and Mac Pro, but out of curiosity I installed 10.5 on my revision A 867MHz 12″ Powerbook G4. A machine that just _barely_ edges under Apple’s minimum spec for 10.5, and the performance compared to 10.4 is terrible. Like trying to run Vista on anything less than a dual-core PC. It’s certainly possible, but when something as simple as text-to-speech doesn’t work as expected in Calculator of all apps (voices like Fred will stutter when speaking a simple result), then something is definitely up with the so-called minimum requirements.
Well, let’s see: MS execs knew that Vista wasn’t living up to the promises made to consumers because even they couldn’t get it working. Wow. And their defense in this lawsuit is what? “The devil made me do it.”? “I was just following orders.”? “We meant that it was ‘Vista Capable’ since you could upgrade your ram and drive and video card.”? All of the above?
@DanDrums … you do need to do this with the same Processor family (PPC), so you’re correct, you can’t put Leopard on a PPC G4 via your Intel, you’ll need to find a PPC Mac out there somewhere, but the process does indeed work. I have Leopard on G4s under the 867 mhz limit and it runs without problems.
@Jim R.
I’ve got it running on a G4, 400hz sawtooth with 1 meg of ram. Installed it on an external disk, booted the computer with that external, installed leopard from the DVD to the G4.
I’m not having any of the issues you spoke of, it runs fine. (Actually better than on my lampstand iMac.)
@DanDrums.. I would install Leopard on the Macbook, then target disk mode the MB to the AGP, select the MB as your start up disk in System Preferences, then restart the AGP and install Leopard.
Leopard runs great on my 1.5GHz PowerBook G4, but wouldn’t install onto my 400MHz G4 tower. I suspect it would run just as well as Tiger does now. Quite usable for an office machine.
After reading these articles all I can say is that the Wow starts now.
Have a good weekend.
Peace.
“Ballmer responded with a terse “Righto.'”
After he removed the light bulb from his mouth.
What is amazing is that M$ keeps making these completely dumbass mistakes and nobody on their board ever questions Gates’ or Ballmer’s competence. In the rest of the world executives, at that level, lose their jobs for less….
Just my $0.02
@Jim – TIV
I have a G4 (dual 500) I’ve thought about attempting something like that. Do you run into unsupported hardware problems with software update – i.e. when it scans your machine for software to update? Or do you just keep the update file and copy it to the older computer?
@ gow
“you do need to do this with the same Processor family (PPC),”
Are you saying you could from a G5 install to an older G4 via target disk mode?
thnx
Has anyone else noticed, and found ironic, that the new Ford Focus features the SYNC sound system powered by MS, and its big sunroof is named Vista? I may never look at Fords the same.
@ Ampar
ahahahaha… I never thought of associating Ballmer with Uncle Fester! LOL
” . . . and its big sunroof is named Vista?”
And it is difficult to operate, opens very slowly and sometimes not at all.
Jubei,
Yeah, um, no credit for Ampar. Ballmer as Uncle Fester is as old as the hills:
http://macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/10339/
The ‘Wow’ never stopped for me. The startup sound, spinning donut cursor, and glorious transparency that probably puts the MAC to shame (I wouldn’t know for sure, I don’t touch overpriced toy computers that can’t play games) is as exhilarating today as it was the day I first powered on my Dell after waiting in line on Vista release day.
Chanting the countdown to Vista launch while waiting with the IT guys I work with is a memory I’ll cherish forever. A special shout out goes to Merv in IT who came to my house and finally got my joystick to work with Bioshock Donkey Kong Edition. Now I just have to get it setup so I can play online. Vista RULES!
Maybe you smug MAC dorks are jealous of the camaraderie in the Microsoft Windows community. It’s taking hold in Zune circles too.
Your potential. Our passion.™
@ Ampar
I don’t think it was a lightbulb… ;P
So I guess we’ll never see in the MDN take that the numero uno problem at the root of the Vista Capable mess is the pathetic performance of the Intel integrated graphics that Apple’s consumer-level machines have depend upon since the switch.
Microsoft Vista — Quality forever on the horizon.
Good point OpJ! The Intel integrated graphics on a MAC seriously compromises performance. And MACs have glossy screens. Glossy!
Your potential. Our passion.™
To Cousin It:
I wasn’t taking credit and it’s Cousin Itt created by TV producer David Levy. Thanks for playing.
To ChrisW357:
Yikes. But funny!
@OpJ,
“So I guess we’ll never see in the MDN take that the numero uno problem at the root of the Vista Capable mess is the pathetic performance of the Intel integrated graphics that Apple’s consumer-level machines have depend upon since the switch.”
Good point OpJ. The fact that my MacBook graphics run so smoothly under Leopard and an integrated graphics chip is a testament to the efficiency in code.
Vista sucks camel ass. ‘Nuff said. They are even LOWERING Vista’s price now, that says a LOT. I am SO GLAD I switched 9 years ago. Microsoft sucks massive ass. EVERYONE knows it. I have been spreading the word. Hope YOU are too.
The wow starts now, as in “Wow! Dell is pissed at M$ over Vista.” A lot of the same details and the same players show up in the NYT story.
Check it out:
http://www.nytimes.com/idg/IDG_002570DE00740E18002573FE006B7266.html
M$ always burns their partners. Dell should have made them wear a jimmy hat. If you’re going to get screwed, you should at least practice safe sex.
Peace.
” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”wink” style=”border:0;” />
Olmecmystic
Leopard also runs fabulously great on my 12-inch, 1.5GHz G4 powerbook (1.25 GB RAM).
<ib>Leopard’s minimum system requirements (according to Apple):</b>
PowerPC G4 Processor (867MHz or faster)
512 MB RAM
9 GB available disk space
For best performance, of course, one should install at least 1 GB of RAM on any Mac running OS X.
I installed 10.5 on my revision A 867MHz 12″ Powerbook G4. A machine that just _barely_ edges under Apple’s minimum spec for 10.5, and the performance compared to 10.4 is terrible. —Jim R.
How much RAM you got in that there powerbook, Jim? Every new version of OS X wants more RAM for optimum performance, and RAM is so dirt-cheap these days that there’s really no excuse for not adding more RAM to your Mac, old or new. No other upgrade gives as much bang for the buck.
MDN-Take: “The fact that Apple’s Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger runs on an old blueberry iMac G3/400Mhz/192MB RAM circa 1999 … (we haven’t gotten around to installing Leopard on it, yet). The point we are making remains exactly the same.]”
It is remarkable that you, MDN *cough*, are apparantly planning to install Leopard on that old G3 iMac, given that Leopard does not run on G3’s (see Apple’s minimum hardware requirements for Leopard).
Some point you are making.
I know, it is a long time ago when blind detestable apologism took over here from fact-based healthy fanboyism, but still. At least try to read up a bit more on Leopard before spouting of this kind of senseless dribble. You always go very aggressive and sometimes even plain hatefull against anyone who has even the tiniest tidbit wrong – in total cowardly anonymous fashion at that – but you yourself do not even know basic information at times.
Hint: go to the Apple site once in a while, you may learn something. “Good journalism” you know, that lame excuse you always use when harassing othes for your precious ad-hits…
ZuneTang says:
The Intel integrated graphics on a MAC seriously compromises performance. And MACs have glossy screens. Glossy!
Yes, sadly, Apple has copied something horrible from the PC side of the computing world. Glossy screens and integrated graphics.
Along with the abortion of a two button mouse.
Then comes along “BootCamp” like what the fsck does a Mac user ever need to install Windows for? What’s with the name “BootCamp” anyway? Some hidden meaning?
Then I think, Apple is turning into a PC vendor.
If Microsoft Vista was the “sh*t” OS to have, I suspect OS X would have died a quick and horrible death and Apple would have gone on like a Gateway or a Dell and licensed Vista.
Unfortunatly Microsoft failed miserably with Vista, but Apple was definatly preparing to become a PC vendor.
I know this for sure. Apple was ready to dump OS X for VIsta. Apple IS A HARDWARE COMPANY.
If OS X didn’t cut the mustard and Vista did, Apple was prepared to change to stay in business.
BUT THE FACT IS MICROSOFT DOESN’T HAVE WHAT IT TAKES TO BEAT APPLE.
M$ had a chance, they really did. They just fscked it up.
Good for us. OS X lives!!!
I installed Leopard on my Sawtooth G4 400 using the technique outlined here:
http://lowendmac.com/osx/leopard/openfirmware.html
It’s way under the hardware requirements, but it runs reasonably well.
@ Mad Mac Maniac,
That is a complete load of bollocks.
Mad Mac Maniac:
I can assure you, as can many others I’m certain, that there was never any intention whatsoever for Apple to become a PC vendor. I think we all would have headed to Cupertino if that had ever occurred.
Bootcamp, was and is, simply an added strategy to make those that were still a little confused about buying a Mac a little more comfortable with the switch. And it was a brilliant move at that, as there are many more people that have switched as a result, at least in the circles I’m in. It just makes people feel better to know they can also run the worlds worst OS on the same machine as the best OS. Period.
And Apple is a hardware company, I would say the best there is, but if you can seriously look at their software accomplishments, and the industry standards they have created with them, the integration they have created across all their lines you really don’t know Apple at all. Not at all, my friend…
Par for the course these days when using crap via M$$$$!
How about being realistic and think back to the OS X release, when nothing was working.
Vista is bad because Microsoft was working on a thing called Longhorn for “a few” years. Then, when it became apparent that the planned Longhorn project would never get completed, Microsoft started over with the Windows Server 2003 codebase and began working on Vista as we know it today. Unfortunately, Microsoft could not delay it any longer, so it got cobbled together and tested during the last 18 months or so and pushed out the door.
If Microsoft had worked on Windows XP version 2.0 in the first place, it would have been a much better (and probably earlier) release. It would have been Windows XP SP3 (that is being worked on now) with a few cosmetic changes. Apparently, that’s what long-time Windows suffers want.
@ Mad Mac Maniac.
OSX is the reason Apple has such a big advantage over every other hardware manufacturer. There aint a chance in hell that Apple would allow Microsoft’s dreadful operating system on it’s machines instead of OSX.
To even suggest such a thing makes me think you don’t even use computers.
MDN and its sheep…
Are you stupid or just stoned??? You missed the whole point of MDN’s response stating 1999 Mac’s are still running some of the newest Mac OS when New Vista can’t even run on new PC’s let alone old PC’s. Also the fact that the iMac contains a PPC and not Intel chips, but it still works, amazing. Talk about sheep, you and your MSFT fanboys should open your eyes to what MDN reports and tries the level the field of anti-Apple articles with misinformation that spews from the mouths of those loser MSFT fans. Oh by the way, MDN does not preach that they are right all the time, I am sure you have made some mistakes too you shithead!
Everywhere I go, people are saying,” I know someone who just got their first Mac.”
It’s like “Invasion of the Body Snatchers.” One day we’ll wake up, and Vista will be irrelevant.
I’ve already been snatched. It’s a better life.
Apple! Glossy screens SUC!!!
I can’t stand it anymore, these reflections from the overhead lights are GIVING ME HEADACHES!!!
I’m going to thrown this glossy iMac right through the front door of Cupertino itself!!!
SHITITITITI!!!
@ Mad Mac
I very much doubt Apple ever considered Windows. OSX was central to Job’s plans from day one in 1997. It has evolved into more than a OS for PCs.
This bitching about glossy screens is pathetic. If it bothers you so much buy a glare screen.
” . . . and its big sunroof is named Vista?”
So that’s Ford’s problem – no drivers are available.
….will not see availability for some time, if ever, depending on the [manufacturer],” Sinofsky wrote,” Moses reports.
“Ballmer responded with a terse “Righto-but is Vista snappier?.'”
@ Guest 51… you should NEVER update if you’re going from one major OS release to the next: Tiger to Leopard.
Yes, you CAN update it, but if you want a trouble-free experience over time, it’s best to:
Backup
ERASE and Install,
Then have the Migration Assistant do it’s magic.
YES, it takes some extra time, but your Mac… and ultimately YOU… will be happier for the effort.
If you don’t believe me, check out http://www.macfixit.com for installation suggestions.
@ Spark, what’s Ford gonna do? Call the sunroof Big-Ass Skylight?
Ford and Microsoft, a marriage made in heaven!
Let’s not get too carried away with regards to how backward-compatible Leopard is. Apple eventually cuts off old hardware. It doesn’t much matter, though, since any Mac running any version of OSX can at least talk to any other Mac running OSX, sharing files and so on.
What’s more significant is your mention of Vista’s inability to run properly even on newer machines. If you can’t even get smooth performance from new hardware, really, you don’t have ANYTHING. Vista clearly is just a major headache, causing many companies to choose simply not to install it at all. By contrast, most of the Mac installed base has by now moved over to some flavor of OSX.
So, really, there are now 3 major platforms out there: There’s a Mac platform (with all OSX flavors and even System 9 playing nice together), a Windows platform (everything pre-Vista), and then there’s the Vista platform.
The Windows platform is going to be, by necessity, abandoned by Microsoft. You might as well cite figures for OS9 – they’re just as meaningless. It’s an unsupported, dying or dead platform and it’s not going anywhere. So – the only meaningful platform-size figures now involve installed Vista machines vs. installed OSX (all flavors) machines.
Using those parameters, it would be interesting to track the size of the OSX vs. Vista base. That’s what the real future of personal computing will look like.
Microsoft
Your CPU. Our sea of P-U.
I’ve got Leopard on my Cube I bought in Sept. 2000. It runs faster than it did with Tiger despite it not being supported. My friends freak out everytime they use it. They’re amazed at how quick and responsive the GUI is.
Once again I am King of First Posts on the second page!!!
Yes, I rule!
@Mac lover
I am a mac user since system 7 on an Apple Performa 5200 in the early nineties. Your assumptions as otherwise are wrong, and baseless to begin with. Stay with the facts in things you know, do not fantasise on cheap emotions, it gets you nowhere.
And I understood the point that MDN wanted to take very well, as would anybody who can read.
My point was to put a mirror to MDN, referring to many articles where even writers who wrote very pro and positive about the wonderfull world of Apple were blasted vitriosly by MDN. Completely needles, very counterproductive to the cause, and seeming only to wanting to ignite renewed aroussal on the more triggerhappy, less thoughtfull part of its audience.
And yes, I loathe MDN for performing these kind of ‘operations’ on real and known persons – who aren’t afraid to be personally accountable – from a position of obscure anonimity themselves, very afraid to be held personally accountable. A cowards way.
I am glad that MDN corrected their take, and hope that – from my point of view – they will leave their blind and vitriolic apologism behind and return to factual healthy fanboyism. And be less concerned with ad-hits. But above all that they will reveal themselves to the world, so that some basic respectibility and personal accountability comes to the fore. It is the right and brave thing to do, and we will all be the better for it.
Thank you mac lover, who ever you are.
Ton Palmans
A couple points on two comments here:
@BigPete: The ridiculous PC World comparison has the MacBook Air price at 2999 when its actually $1999 and they have the disk drive at $150 when its $99.
Mistake ridden – if they had done it with facts, the Aor would have won.
Incredibly biased and DECEITFUL piece of crappy journalism.
@Arthur – OSX wasnt so great at first, but if you remember it was a FREE beta – Vista should come free with a $20 bill to buy a case of beer to ease the pain.
Zune Thang says: “The startup sound, spinning donut cursor, and glorious transparency that probably puts the MAC to shame (I wouldn’t know for sure, I don’t touch overpriced toy computers that can’t play games)”
So ya don’t touch Macs but you sure seem to make a lot of comments about them. You don’t know the startup sound of a Mac, nor the spinning beach ball, nor have any idea of how the transparency works, since you have not seen them at all.
You are a hypocrite and a liar Zune Thang. That is going to be tough on your kharma. If you think that the drivel you post is inconsequential, you better take another long hard look at what you are doing.
And you say that macs have a glossy screen. How do you know for sure? You say you haven’t looked at the machines, so how do you know? Do you get your information by listening to as you say it Mac sheep/lemmings then repeat the stuff that you heard? Wow, Hitler would have loved someone like you, you swallow propaganda like candy.
Well I will leave you to your toys and games, which of course is what MS excels at.
Enjoy your kharma.
“Chanting the countdown to Vista launch while waiting with the IT guys I work with is a memory I’ll cherish forever. A special shout out goes to Merv in IT who came to my house and finally got my joystick to work with Bioshock Donkey Kong Edition. Now I just have to get it setup so I can play online. Vista RULES!”
You mean you needed help to install a JOYSTICK???
“Maybe you smug MAC dorks are jealous of the camaraderie in the Microsoft Windows community. It’s taking hold in Zune circles too.”
Nice of those Zune people to get together and have circle-squirts.
Your product. You pervert!
@ alansky
“How much RAM you got in that there powerbook, Jim? Every new version of OS X wants more RAM for optimum performance, and RAM is so dirt-cheap these days that there’s really no excuse for not adding more RAM to your Mac, old or new. No other upgrade gives as much bang for the buck.”
The revision A 867MHz 12″ Powerbook G4 only supports a maximum of 640 MB of RAM (which mine does have) and a 32 MB VRAM for the nVidia GeForce Go. This was the first 12″ Powerbook introduced in early 2002. I would have already upgraded to at least 1 GB, if that was possible.
I understand Leopard obviously demands more from the Powerbook than it is clearly is capable of even though it is Apple supported. There are other limiting factors attributed to a laptop such as a slower hard disk, RAM and bus speed. So obviously anyone using Leopard on a desktop machine may see better results even if that machine is older and not officially supported by Apple. I can assure you the Powerbook performance compared to 10.4 is definitely worse.
But when Apple says Leopard can run on my minimum 867MHz Powerbook with only 512 MB and it can’t in the all same manners that 10.4 does, then they really should have done more testing, or rather just honestly raised the minimum requirement for installing Leopard on its laptops, because the 12″ 867MHz clearly cannot. I own Intel-based Macs and Leopard is great, but I’d hate to get burned if my only machine was the 12″ Powerbook. It’s really the same argument users are making about what PCs are Windows “Vista Capable” when they actually aren’t, particularly laptops with lackluster performance.
Apple is really no better a judge than Microsoft when it comes to minimum specs because it wants to sell the OS. Besides, these days Apple is being less and less detailed on its updates, about what it actually fixes or addresses anyway.