Tim Cook and Charles Koch: U.S. Congress must act on the ‘dreamers’

“The holidays are upon us, and families across the United States are coming together to celebrate. Yet for about 690,000 of our neighbors, colleagues and friends, this holiday season is marked by uncertainty and fear,” Apple CEO Tim Cook and Charles Koch, chairman and chief executive of Koch Industries, write jointly in op-ed for The Washington Post.

“These are the ‘dreamers’ — children of undocumented immigrants who are working, in countless ways, to make the United States stronger,” Cook and Koch write. “Unless Congress acts, this holiday season might be the last one the dreamers get to spend in the country they love and call home.”

Tim Cook (left) and Charles Koch
Tim Cook (left) and Charles Koch
“We have no illusions about how difficult it can be to get things done in Washington, and we know that people of good faith disagree about aspects of immigration policy. If ever there were an occasion to come together to help people improve their lives, this is it. By acting now to ensure that dreamers can realize their potential by continuing to contribute to our country, Congress can reaffirm this essential American ideal,” Cook and Koch write. “This is a political, economic and moral imperative. The sooner that Congress resolves this situation — on a permanent basis — the sooner dreamers can seize the opportunity to plan their lives and develop their talents.”

“As a matter of both policy and principle, we strongly agree that Congress must act before the end of the year to bring certainty and security to the lives of dreamers. Delay is not an option,” Cook and Koch write. “Congress should act quickly, ideally before year’s end, to ensure that these decent people can work and stay and dream in the United States.”

Read more in the full article here.

MacDailyNews Take: A permanent legislative solution would benefit everyone involved.

Please keep the discussion civil and on-topic. Off-topic posts and ad hominem attacks will be deleted and those who post such comments will be moderated/blocked. Permanent loss of screen name could also result.

Laurene Powell Jobs backs ‘dreamers,’ says ‘hundreds of thousands of young people’s lives are on the line’ – December 8, 2017
Apple CEO Tim Cook ‘encouraged’ by President Trump’s movement on ‘Dreamers’ – September 21, 2017
After Trump administration sunsets DACA, Apple CEO Cook vows to work with U.S. Congress to protect ‘Dreamers’ in email to employees – September 5, 2017
President Trump ends DACA, but gives Congress 6-month window to deliver solution; Apple CEO Tim Cook ‘stands with’ 250 DACA-protected employees – September 5, 2017
Apple CEO Tim Cook signs letter encouraging President Trump to preserve the DACA ‘Dreamers’ program – September 1, 2017
Laurene Powell Jobs’ Emerson Collective buying The Atlantic – July 28, 2017
President Trump tells Apple CEO Cook that U.S. needs comprehensive immigration reform – June 20, 2017
Laurene Powell Jobs launches new website in ‘DREAM Act’ push – January 22, 2013
Laurene Powell Jobs looks to create bipartisan support for DREAM Act immigration reform – December 18, 2012


  1. According to the usual political partisans here, it’s honky dory for Kock to tell others what to do. But if Cook says a word, then that would be dragging Apple into politics.


    1. Tell it to Cook, dumb-ass. He’s the one who keeps inserting politics into his job (while not doing his actual job, like keeping Macs current).

      MDN covers Apple news. Cook is Apple’s CEO. When he writes an op-ed in The Washington Post, regardless of the subject, only a fscking moron would ask MDN to ignore it.

    2. Brutal Truth,

      I might agree if Cook were “inserting politics into his job” on some matter unrelated to his duties as CEO of Apple. This isn’t one of those.

      For some years now, Apple has not consisted of two American men working in a garage. It is a very, very large multinational corporation with many thousands of employees. Quite a lot of those employees are not US citizens. Those non-citizens either work outside this country or have legal permission to work here.

      Some of those non-citizen employees are US residents who have been legally hired under the DACA program. Apple hired them and spent money on training them under the expectation that the Government would not change the rules and deport them. I think you will agree that part of Cook’s “actual job” is not wasting the company’s money.

      It is in Apple’s interest to avoid having these employees expelled from the country. It is also in the company’s interest to hire the best-qualified applicants for positions that will open up in the future. The criteria for the DACA program insure that these folks are highly motivated individuals who are as likely to be the most qualified applicant as anyone else. Ending the program will cut off that source of applicants.

      There is a further issue: employee morale. If Cook and Apple do not stand up for the DACA employees, why would any other employee think that the company would stand up for them? It would be reasonable for all the other non-citizen employees to find employment with a company that values them, rather than one that will quietly submit to government policies that hurt both the employees and the company.

      The same applies to other employee categories. If Apple is silent about sexual harassment and discrimination, why would a woman choose to work there, rather than for a company that publicly supports them? Ditto for members of ethnic and religious minority groups. Ditto for employees that might face discrimination for their gender identity or sexual identification. If Apple doesn’t stand up for the Dreamers, why would anybody think they will stand up for anybody else?

      All of those relate to Cook’s “actual job,” which is building Apple, not supporting every government policy that comes along.

      1. While speeding, yes, you are an illegal driver. While committing the robbery, yes, you are illegal. While living in the US without documentation, yes, you are illegal. There is a difference in what you might have done at some point in the past and what you are continually and deliberately doing and intend to continue doing for the foreseeable future.

        1. Legal eagle alert.

          To some of the most vocal anti immigration posters, they flaunt rules themselves incessantly. rules don’t matter because if you are rich enough, you just lobby for exemptions and rule changes. Pay your lobbyists and lawyers, and you do anything you want. “Illegal” is just a label you affix on people without hose deep pockets.

          Most reasonable people ask if harm has been done. In the instance of minor speeding and Dreamers, absolutely nobody is harmed. Quite the opposite.

          1. “To some of the most vocal anti immigration posters…”

            “To some of the most vocal anti ILLEGAL immigration posters…”

            there, fixed it for you…no charge since it’s Christmas time.

        2. ILLEGAL ALIEN is just sloppy language and a dog whistle term. The speeding driver is a speeding driver, doing something that is illegal. When he goes to court, no one calls him an ILLEGAL DRIVER. Yes, they are in the US without a legal status. What you call them depends on your politics and your view on how they ought to be treated.

          1. Nope. Sorry you cannot distinguish between what you think the term means and what the US Govt. knows the term means. Even flaming liberals understand that they cannot do anything to erase that term from the law. They can moan and complain, but that is what is written into law. Don’t like it, change it or shut up.

        1. We aren’t talking about those. This is a discussion about “dreamers”. You know, children who were dragged from their home countries to the US by their parents. They had no input there; nobody asked them if they wanted to leave their Guatemala, Somalia, Bangladesh or Mexico. They don’t know anyone in their birth countries, many of them don’t even speak the language.

          They never did violate any laws of the US (their parents did).

    1. In this case, “illegal” is completely inaccurate. It isn’t against the law for an undocumented person to be in the United States, but only to enter illegally. These individuals did not enter illegally because they were brought here before they reached the age at which they could be held criminally or civilly responsible for their actions. There can be no crime where the defendant has no criminal intent (or other culpable mental state).

      1. Sorry, it is against the law for an illegal alien to reside in the united states of america without a visa or supporting documentation. You said it yourself. Undocumented, therefore, illegal. Pretty black and white.

  2. Dear Tim,

    I admire your passion for the causes you support. That said, I just had to force restart my 2016 MacBook Pro three times because the progress bar keeps getting stuck when I boot it. Also, this is my second 2016 MacBook Pro because the first had graphics problems.

    Get off your soapbox and FIX YOUR DAMN COMPANY!!!

    1. Sounds like something’s corrupted. Happens to every computer, particularly if you “force restart”. That only makes things worse. I would strongly recommend DiskWarrior which will allow you to fix the damage you’ve done to the boot files.

      It’s very likely there’s no damage to the computer or its software. Somehow you’ve damaged some critical files. It happens, but definitely don’t do hard reboots. That will definitely damage files.

    1. The job of congress is just that: to do the most good for the greatest number of citizens for the long term.

      The problem with most politics is that congress is now controlled by corporations whose goal is to extract from citizens the maximum amount of money possible as soon as possible, over and over again. Nobody, especially not Trump, is looking out for the little guy. The divide between rich and poor will be the undoing of the USA. The richest few will wrap themselves in the flag and pay lip service to the working class, but everyone can see that the rich have zero interest in nationalism or making everyone in the USA well educated, healthy, and employed in meaningful work. The winners take all and hide it in foreign bank accounts.

  3. Dreamers must act to do something to correct their own legal status in the US. The existing laws really are sufficient, and if they are such capable and respected members of our society, they should have no trouble complying with those laws.

    If Tim wants to pay them to take some time to study and test for that, that’s up to him. Sounds like a pretty good plan. But not for me – I don’t need anyone so desparately that I would hire them and expect the government to accomodate them even though they are illegal aliens.

    1. When these folks were hired, they were not “illegal aliens.” They had legal work permits under the DACA Program and were as eligible for employment as any other US resident. Apple had no way of knowing when it hired them that the government was going to change the rules.

      “Correcting your status” isn’t just a matter of taking a test. If you cannot prove that you entered the country legally, you have to apply at a US Consulate in the country where you have citizenship and wait in line behind all the previous applicants. That is assuming that you can fit into one of the relatively narrow categories that are eligible for immigration (which are growing more narrow every day under this administration). It also assumes that someone who previously lived in the US without papers is able to apply at all.

      Application is going to be difficult, because you will be unable to provide any local references because you haven’t lived in that country since you were a child. In fact, a child who was born in transit may never have lived in his country of nationality. Providing something as basic as a birth certificate may simply be impossible. You cannot provide any residence or employment history, either, because all of that information will be back in the USA and you cannot go there to get it.

      While you are waiting, possibly for many years, you wii have to survive in a country that your parents thought was too dangerous to raise their children there. They spoke the local language and understood the local culture, which you don’t because you have no recollection of ever being there.

      My wife was an English-born British subject of substantial means with a solid work history and a graduate school education, married to a natural-born American involved in law enforcement. She entered the US in 1990 and immediately began acting “to do something to correct her own legal status in the US.” There was a lot more involved than “studying and testing.” It took ten years of constant interviews and background checks for her to become a citizen.

      Try that if you are an unemployed refugee in El Salvador and then assure us that you “will have no trouble complying with those laws.”

      1. So if effect, you are saying that they should get a pass and get special treatment above and beyond other people applying for citizenship, essentially going to the head of the line and getting approved without ever having to go through what you wife did? That is just wrong on so many counts and totally not the American way of doing things (fairness). Here is a thought, if Apple is so desperate to keep these individuals, let them return to their country of origin and be employed by Apple there while they work on getting citizenship approved the right way in order to reenter the country legally.

      2. The requirements for DACA were not a “pass.” Yes, I am saying that persons who have been productive members of US society for most of their life (and their entire adult life) who are out of compliance with US immigration policy through no fault of their own should get a preference over nonresidents. And yes, I think that totally IS the American way of doing things (fairness).

        The lie that it is easy to get legal entry to the US has been repeated so often by the Father of Lies that a lot of people believe it. It is simply not true. I was reacting above to the assertion that all that is involved is “taking some time to study and test for that.” My wife, who is exactly the sort of person that the President says he wants, took five years to permanent residency and another five to citizenship, with constant interviews and background checks… and that was with complete documentation and before 9/11.

        If all of the Dreamers were deported, only a fraction of them would ever get back in. For some of them, it would be a death sentence. THAT is what seems totally not the American way of doing things.

    2. Interesting that SJBMusic’s comment, based on absolute ignorance of what would be involved in a Dreamer “correcting” their legal status, has a higher rating than TxUser’s well-informed rebuttal that details exactly why SJBMusic was spouting nonsense.
      Is xenophobic nationalism so ingrained in commenters hear that they just stick their fingers in their ears and say “blah blah blah – I can’t hear you” when someone tries to explain reality to them? That’s both pathetic and dangerous.

  4. Uncertainty and fear? I think that the dreamers have the option of joining the ever growing ranks of refugees from Apple’s home country that are making their way to the free and civilized world.

    Bring ’em on, make this Christmas one of love, peace and humanity.

      1. Amen. I’ll need all the money I can squirrel away to support myself if my house is burned down in a California wildfire — after the glorious Tax bill is passed, there will no longer be a casualty loss deduction. I may decide to move back to the desert. Flash flood insurance was at least reasonable.

      2. It will be Christmas 2014 before that happens, but that does not seem to sink in though I’ve repeated it a number of times. Nor does any country not paying their NATO dues have any affect on the tax payers of any other nation, in fact your country over pays it’s dues. so your complaint is better sent to a representative of your government that is wasting your tax paying dollars by over paying their due.

        That’s all beside the point botvinnik, as I am worried a bit about you. you’ve insulted me at least three consecutive times with the term “deadbeat” and are now using the term again and again. Is it the patriotic insult word of the month or is your insult arsenal running out?

        1. I think you made a mistake citing 2014, which is past.

          botvinnik is merely playing “point, counter point,” a logical game designed to deflect criticism by raising seemingly related accusations. The game can be continued indefinitely, because the art of insinuation is highly developed in politics. Indeed, it is the very basis of politics. “If you don’t know this, you are stupid.”

          Because politics is based on unreason, I prefer dada, the art of making fun of the terminally serious. botvinnik might be acquainted with dadaist Marcel Duchamp, a chess master who like him rejects social interplay in favour of insult and outrage, which at least entertain one’s nerve endings. “To be alive is to question one’s being, and to ask why one should be sequestered with these other ruffians.” Keen questions, both of them.

          1. You are correct on the time line.

            Like you I prefer data so I’ve been ignorant a long time and never really into politicks. Birds use both wings to fly, an oscillation around an equilibrium occurs, I prefer harmonious pursuits than those you have described.

            Pertaining to the NATO counterpoint I’d agree that it’s time for the other countries to pull up their socks. Conversely it would also be appreciated if all the nations brought themselves into line, no more no less. That’s a different state of equilibrium than the one now being expressed.

            Pertaining to the issue at hand, these dreamers. I see it as an internal house keeping issue for the most part, there are now enhanced barriers for getting into your country but as there is a mass exodus of people who will be lucky enough to leave I take as a positive sign. A new equilibrium will be established, a dynamic one. Personally I think it’s fine to withdraw, recuperate, reflect, evaluate as you move into a isolationist xenophobic stage. Certainly the show is top notch, full of twists turns, dramas chills, thrills most devoid of any real substance.

            It’s important to talk about these dreamers and how Tim Cook is replying to them. They are human lives, not that your nation care much about humanity these days the way you massacre people in Iraq for over a decade, never tiring of it, never really explaining it, never admitting to the mistake, never giving a good rationale and never taking responsibility for your actions. Make no doubt about it, your nation is a traitor of humanity. For the most part the reply is attack attack attack the messenger and ignoring the message, ignoring the option presented to you. There is another way a, an ethical way, a moral way, a peaceful way, a loving way but I guess your nation just doesn’t have what it takes to figure that out.

            It’s kinda like posting repetitive messages to be civil and to stay on topic then letting the personal deadbeat insults fly and posting topics about Trump want to go to the moon. Trump goes to the moon, wow, what an idea, and how is that related to Macs? Well the way I see it, by the time the chump makes it to the cheesy rock, Tim will be waving from Mars.

            Your nation is so petty now, like an upgrade nothing burger, but the fireworks, best there is. Your nation is no longer worthy of dreamers but some of the dreamers will stay in spite of that. That what humans do, that’s what humanity does. That is why there is still hope for your country, a reminder if your nation ever decides to crawl out of that hateful hole you’ve dug.

            But act soon or you’ll be buried in it by your own fecal importance.

  5. Tim Cook is doing a disservice to Apple by involving himself in politics. Politics is a disastrous distraction for a high tech company like Apple. There are lot of deplorables like me who admire Apple because it likes to Think Different and thumb it’s nose at conventional wisdom. Liberal politics is nothing but fashionable group think. I may talk PC out of fear but I think PI and therefore I am.

    1. Whis was co-written with Charles Koch. There is probably nobody in America less likely to engage in liberal group think. Do you think the stockholders in Koch Industries are complaining that Mr. Koch needs to focus on his real job? Creating a favorable national climate for his company IS part of his real job

  6. Do us a favor, Pipeline: Try building products and delivering them online, and close that lib claptrap hole in your face about everything else, and sit in you goddamn seat for a change and concentrate on what you are hired for instead of shining Hillary’s shoes or wasting your time on transvestites.

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