Apple CEO Tim Cook dodges question of whether he promised President Trump three big, beautiful U.S. factories

“OK, iPhone sales rose in the third quarter — and Apple’s shares are trading at an all-time high after its earnings report Tuesday,” Levi Sumagaysay writes for The Mercury News. “But hold the Champagne: Tim Cook still had to answer a couple of tough questions during the earnings call, such as whether he really told President Trump that Apple is going to build three ‘beautiful’ manufacturing plants in the United States.”

“Last week, Trump said in an interview with The Wall Street Journal that Cook had ‘promised’ him three U.S. plants in private, and that it would be ‘big, big, big,'” Sumagaysay writes. “So Tuesday, Cook gave a long-winded response to whether he promised Trump those plants.”

Apple CEO Tim Cook (left) and U.S. President Donald Trump at  American Technology Council meeting on June 19, 2017 (photo:  Nicholas Kamm/AFP/Getty)
Apple CEO Tim Cook (left) and U.S. President Donald Trump at American Technology Council meeting on June 19, 2017 (photo: Nicholas Kamm/AFP/Getty)
Cook said, “‘We’ve created 2 million jobs in the U.S., and we’re incredibly proud of that… We do view that we have a responsibility in the U.S. to increase economic activity… including increasing jobs, because Apple could only have been created here,'” Sumagaysay writes. “Apple’s CEO went on to tout what else the Silicon Valley company is doing to boost the American economy.”

Sumagaysay writes, “Still, none of that is a yes to what Trump said Cook promised him.”

Read more in the full article here.

MacDailyNews Note: Cook did say, “…We have about two-thirds or so of our total employee base is in the U.S. despite only a third of our revenues being here, and we’ll have some things that we’ll say about that later in the year.”

The full exchange, verbatim:

Steven Milunovich – UBS Securities: Okay, and then a government question. First of all, the President suggested that you may build three big beautiful plants. I wonder if you can comment on if that’s a possibility either directly or indirectly. And then in China, I think, we all understand that you have to work within the regulations, but maybe you could comment a bit on how you feel your working relationship is with the government and if there is certain lines that you can’t cross.

Tim Cook: Sure. Starting with the U.S., let me just take this question from what are we doing to increase jobs, which I think is probably where it’s rooted. We’ve created 2 million jobs in the U.S., and we’re incredibly proud of that. We do view that we have a responsibility in the U.S. to increase economic activity, including increasing jobs, because Apple could have only been created here. And so as we look at that 2 million, there are three main categories of that, and we have actions going on in each of them to further build on that momentum.

The first category is app development. About three-quarters of the 2 million are app developers. And we’re doing an enormous amount of things to deliver curriculum to both K-12 with Swift Playgrounds in the K-to-6 area, other curriculum as you proceed beyond grade 6 under the Everyone Can Code area. And just a couple months ago, we announced a new curriculum that’s focused on community schools and community colleges, junior colleges, technical colleges, for kids that did not have coding in their elementary and high school years. And so we’re excited about that because we think it could increase the diversity of the developer community and the quantity. And I think this area in general and all the things we do for the developer community will be the largest contribution that Apple can make because this is the fastest growing job segment in the country, and I think will be for quite some time.

If you look at the second area, we have purchased – or we purchased last year about $50 billion worth of goods and services from U.S.-based suppliers. Some significant portion of those are manufacturing-related, and so we’ve asked ourselves what can we do to increase this. And you may have seen that at the beginning of the quarter, sometime in April I believe, we announced a fund, an Advanced Manufacturing Fund, that we’re initially placing $1 billion in. And we’ve already deployed $200 million of that. And the first recipient is Corning in Kentucky, and they’ll be using that money to expand the plant to make very innovative glass. And we purchase that glass and essentially export it to the world with iPhones and iPads.

We think there’s more of these that we can do. I think there are probably several plants that can benefit from having some investment to grow or expand or even maybe set up shop in the U.S. for the first time, so we’re very excited about that.

And then the third area is we have about two-thirds or so of our total employee base is in the U.S. despite only a third of our revenues being here, and we’ll have some things that we’ll say about that later in the year. And so that’s what we’re doing from a job growth point of view, and we’re very, very proud of that.

Now turning to China, let me comment on what I assumed is at the root of your question about this VPN issue. Let me just address that head on. The central government in China back in 2015 started tightening the regulations associated with VPN apps, and we have a number of those on our store. Essentially, as a requirement for someone to operate a VPN, they have to have a license from the government there. Earlier this year, they began a renewed effort to enforce that policy, and we were required by the government to remove some of the VPN apps from the App Store that don’t meet these new regulations. We understand that those same requirements are on other app stores, and as we checked through that, that is the case.

Today there are actually still hundreds of VPN apps on the App Store, including hundreds by developers that are outside China, and so there continues to be VPN apps available. We would obviously rather not remove the apps, but like we do in other countries, we follow the law wherever we do business. And we strongly believe that participating in markets and bringing benefits to customers is in the best interest of the folks there and in other countries as well. And so we believe in engaging with governments even when we disagree.

And in this particular case, now back to commenting on this one, we’re hopeful that over time the restrictions that we’re seeing are loosened because innovation really requires freedom to collaborate and communicate, and I know that that is a major focus there. And so that’s what we’re seeing from that point of view.

Some folks have tried to link it to the U.S. situation last year, and they’re very different. In the case of the U.S., the law in the U.S. supported us, which was very clear. In the case of China, the law is also very clear there. And like we would if the U.S. changed the law here, we’d have to abide by them in both cases, that doesn’t mean that we don’t state our point of view in the appropriate way. We always do that. And so hopefully that’s a little bit probably more than you wanted to know, but I wanted to tell you.

President Trump says Apple CEO Tim Cook has promised 3 ‘big, beautiful’ manufacturing plants in the U.S. – July 25, 2017
Apple supplier Foxconn nearing decision to build plant in Wisconsin to produce display panels – July 25, 2017
Made in America iPhones, after all? Apple supplier Foxconn considering iPhone plant in Wisconsin – June 15, 2017
China Premier Li visits Apple supplier Foxconn after CEO’s meeting with President Trump – May 10, 2017
Apple’s top manufacturing partner to meet with U.S. President Trump today – April 27, 2017
Apple could help Westinghouse in completing new nuclear plants – April 17, 2017
Apple may bid for big stake in Toshiba – April 17, 2017
Apple supplier Sharp may begin building $7 billion U.S. plant in within months as Japan PM meets President Trump – February 8, 2017
Foxconn-Sharp considering LCD plant in USA, plans in response to President-elect Trump’s ‘Make in America’ call – January 13, 2017
With President Trump soon to take office, Apple looks to boost its ‘Made in America’ credentials – January 10, 2017
Make America Insanely Great Again: Apple seeks to expand Made in USA manufacturing – January 9, 2017
Apple invests $1 billion in SoftBank’s massive tech fund; may help company get in President Trump’s good graces – January 4, 2017
Apple in talks to invest $1 billion in SoftBank tech fund – December 13, 2016
Softbank to invest $50 billion in the U.S., create 50,000 new tech jobs after meeting with President-elect Trump – and Apple supplier Foxconn is in on the deal – December 6, 2016
President-elect Trump invites tech leaders to roundtable in Manhattan next week – December 6, 2016
President-elect Trump tells Apple CEO Tim Cook that he’d like to see Apple make products in the U.S. – November 23, 2016
President-elect Trump says Apple CEO Tim Cook called him after election victory – November 22, 2016
Apple could make iPhones in the U.S.A. under President Trump, sources say – November 17, 2016
Japan’s Softbank just became one of Apple’s most important suppliers – July 18, 2016


      1. In this case, it may be warranted. After all of the horrendous alt-right BS I have heard on this forum, this seems very mild in comparison.

        And who actually believes this statement by Trump that Cook promised “three U.S. plants.” I don’t know what was said, but Trump has a way of, shall we say, lying. Prevaricating. Stretching the truth until it is screaming in agony, then tossing is aside and spewing BS.

        Cook is CEO, not dictator of Apple. He cannot promise three plants in the U.S. unless Apple management has already approved that capital investment. If such a plan exists, then it started long before Trump took office. But, far more likely, Apple is going to invest in several U.S. businesses, as it has already been doing. Nothing new. Nothing magically created by Trump and his deal-making. Just business as usual despite the Trump grandstanding and bullying.

        1. @Who has the thin skin now, GoeB?!

          New around here? Seems lately I have been spawning, or at the very least encouraging instant avatars. My guess is a regular poster coward hiding behind a new name, but I could be wrong.

          “In this case, it may be warranted. After all of the horrendous alt-right BS I have heard on this forum, this seems very mild in comparison.”

          Read immediately following what DavGreg wrote:

          “Actually Cook told Trump to blow him and Agent Orange dropped to his knee and titled his head back saying War Eagle!”

          Accusing the president of the United States of giving a blow job to Tim Cook, and you DEFEND IT?!?!?!

          You POS defender go crawl back in your hole. And that goes double for DavGreg. You cannot defend the indefensible! 👿

      1. Trump is beholden to everyone and acts like he is the guy in charge. When the facts hit the table you will find out Agent Orange is owned by various factions and groups you want nowhere near the White House.

        Unlike the nonsense on the extreme right wing, the concerns against Trump are real, should deeply concern every American, already disturb our longtime allies and present our nation wth what will probably become the greatest challenge since the Watergate scandal.

        This is not red pill vs blue pill. I am a political independent and did not vote for Hillary or Trump as I consider both to be corrupt, dangerous and unworthy of the office.

        It is not outrageous to shout fire in a theater that is on fire. We have someone in the Oval Office who may well be beholden to any number of Russian and Chinese Oligarchs, may well be mobbed up, probably has evaded taxes for a significant period of time, who is ignorant of international affairs and our history, who is incurious and ill informed regarding Science and the Environment and is also quite possibly less than mentally stable. That is not the kind of person you want wielding the power of the Presidency.

        I see Trump as amoral and he will do whatever he can and must to achieve what he seeks. The man behind him is a Christian Dominionist, which should concern every American regardless of faith or lack thereof.

        Finally Trump has no shame. Should he be impeached, he will likely have to be dragged out of the building.

        1. DavGreg, you speak the truth about Trump. And the whole Administration is scary in terms of its incompetence. The Republicans may have “won,” but we all ended up losing as a result. Bernie is looking pretty good right now…or Kasich, perhaps…or Huntsman? Anyone with a clue about governing, reasonable knowledge of history and politics and geography, some real skills in diplomacy, and character and poise.

          Trump misled the rural voters into thinking that he really gives a damn about them. He likely doesn’t even know or care about the people who serve him. He just has an extreme craving for approval, a burning need to be a “winner” at any cost, and an inflated ego that drives him to fabricate scenarios that glorify him. Or, in Trump’s mind, Him.

          1. It seems to me that leadership has largely been pragmatic, amoral, ruthless and self-serving, and that followers have been largely lazy, self-serving, and gullible. For hundreds of years, that has been a fine recipe for exploitation, overreach, and revolution.

            Perhaps in this present era of gene-splicing, evolution will be forcibly guided to a new aristocracy that doesn’t need democracy or any other form of social compact to rule the world. Future leaders would simply be better at everything, not just better at bamboozling people.

          2. @Trump supporters deserve Trump. The rest of us do not!

            You new around here? You must be a contributing source of fake down votes targeting conservatives. CitizenZero …

          1. The Right have bathed this forum in hate for years. And the desperation of the far right will soon return redoubled in strength as their fantasies about Trump crumble. Trump is the worst thing that has happened to the U.S. in politics since Nixon and Agnew, and the fallout will cripple the GOP for a long time. The same GOP that has fairly successfully swept the painful memories of “Mr. Regime Change” and “Two-War” George W. Bush under the rug.

            Sure, there is disappointment in losing. But it is the disappointment of knowing that your errors enabled Trump to win. He capitalized on and inflated the fears and disenfranchisement of older white voters, and it worked…once. It won’t work again. Meanwhile, Trump has become a poison pill for his own party. The desperation is yours, thelonious, or soon will be.

            1. @Desperate? No. But grimly determined not to make the same mistake twice.

              You new around here? You must be a contributing source of fake down votes targeting conservatives. CitizenZero …

        1. You need to go to either Australia’s or Canada’s or New Zealand’s gov website and read what it requires just to apply to emigrate there. You do not know what you’re talking about.

          1. Obviously you never did.

            Canada has never required that you MUST speak English to apply.

            In fact, five classes of immigrants had been established for entry to Canada: Independent (people applying on their own); Humanitarian (refugees and other persecuted or displaced people); Family (having immediate family already living in Canada); Assisted Relatives (distant relatives, sponsored by a family member in Canada); and Economic (people with highly desirable employment skills, or those willing to open a business or invest significantly in the Canadian economy).

            Heck, if they did, it would assure that even Trump could never qualify. That and the fact the his most recent venture, his Toronto Trump Tower, went bankrupt.

            1. “The Trump Organization, a company of American real estate developer and now-President of the United States, Donald Trump, used to hold the management contract for the property and was a minority shareholder in the project. Following the buy-out of the management contract by JCF Capital and the sale of the property to InnVest Real Estate Investment Trust in 2017, the hotel is being operated by Marriott International temporarily as The Adelaide Hotel Toronto. Following renovations, it will join Marriott’s St. Regis Hotels & Resorts as The St. Regis Toronto.”

              wrong again, serial liar.

            2. You left out the last line, i.e., “The building…have been named as key links in a financial connection between U.S. President Trump and the Russian government.”

              By the way, where is the similarity of Trump, Canada and New Zealand immigration policies as you so profoundly declare?

          2. Yes indeed. The USA should definitely emulate these world powers. Because… no reason other than botty’s selfish dislike of anyone who is not like him. If botty had his way, he’d expel half of the US population (a great boon to his hiring prospects?)

    1. With this congress, I doubt it will pass. You’d think there were still a bunch of Democrats gumming up the works, but nope, same ol’ “I’ll do anything to protect my job” politicians that are blocking Trump at every turn.

  1. First of all, anyone who believes anything that comes out of Trump’s mouth is a fool! Second, do you really think Tim Cook is going to say, “The President of the United States is a liar! I never said that!”

    Trump said what he said as a way to force Apple to make the next move. He’s not a fool, just a dumbass. People are already presuming the Foxconn plant in Wisconsin is part of that due to Trump’s ignorance about what’s what in the world.

    Cook did not “dodge” the question, as the article points out, he just didn’t answer it in normal Apple fashion when it comes to future plans.

    If I had to guess, I’d definitely say the new Mac Pro, coming out next year, will be made in the U.S.A. and possibly the iMac Pro along with the HomePod will have a home here as well.

    1. “First of all, anyone who believes anything that comes out of Trump’s mouth is a fool!”

      Don’t you just love absolute statements for all time? Tell us again who is the fool.

      “Trump said what he said as a way to force Apple to make the next move.”

      Force? I believe the word you are looking for is INFLUENCE. The old stick and carrot approach that all politicians have in their toolbox and use EVERYDAY.

      “He’s not a fool, just a dumbass.”

      I’m trying to follow you here. So President Trump is not a fool, but everyone that believes anything he says is a fool. So, if you are not a fool — how do you graduate to dumbass?

      You don’t support POTUS, fine. But make some sense …

    2. Of course he dodged it – with good reason…he promised no such thing!
      I doubt Cook wants an Apple v Trump pissing contest, to get – or prompt, center stage position in a media storm…it would be a huge distraction.
      Thank you TC for stepping back. Leave the front line politics to the usual suspects, they’ll do their day to day fsckups just fine.

        1. Oh…I don’t know..
          Maybe my scout’s honour was affronted by Trump’s lie about “The greatest speech ever – I got a call from from their leaders” among many other such narcissistic nonsenses, helped make up my mind.
          And my opinion is just as valid as your contrary position.

            1. PS. The British…you know…the originators of ENGLISH the language and Baden-Powell, the British founder of the scout movement, know perfectly well how to spell.
              Your New World revisionist spelling is a minority in the English speaking world..

  2. Just take a good look at the picture of prime access seating of Cook next to President Trump.

    What a lifeless sour puss!!!

    Let’s have a caption contest and I’ll kick it off: Honey, everything is OK, really, I’m still the same and nothing has changed. I prefer we work this out and not sleep on the couch again … 😉

  3. If the Tesla factory is $1.7 bn and it makes cars and batteries, then why is an LCD screen factory in wisconsin going to cost $10billion. If Wisconsin gives out $3bn tax breaks, and the Wisconsin plant hires 3000 workers, this tax break is $1 million per worker/over 10 years. Does it really cost $100K in tax breaks per work per year to attract a company to a state like Wisconsin? Perhaps it is cold and smells like rotten fish? tRump even said they might spend $30bn. weird. bad math. smells funny.

    1. Cause Wisconsin is turning into Mississippi were being educated is frowned upon. The state has nothing going for it. Neighboring Minnesota would not agree to those one sided terms.

      Why doesn’t WI use the tax credits to upgrade its lack of human capital, quality life issues and infrastructure. Those three would attract willing firms to relocate without one sided subsidies.

  4. the VPN issue is like many Apple ‘black eyes’ was due to PR communication failure (like the Foxconn ‘Child labour ‘ abuse fiction-fiasco started by actor Mike Daisey who later admitted he made it all up and NYT pulitzer winning article that had wonky stats. The fiction caused among other things an anti apple protest campaign with 140,000 signatures collected in 2 days. Apple did NOT respond for months , not even a letter to the NYT editor. Apple has not recovered from it yet today — most people still believe Apple is a labour abuser. )

    When the VPN apps were removed Apple (with help of the PR guy) should have stated what Cook has now tried to explain :

    ” The Chinese government has told us to remove a few VPN apps that don’t have a Chinese license as required by local law. We still have hundreds of licensed VPN apps in the China App Store “.

    good that Cook tried to clarify it but a lot damage is done: the original ‘evil apple removes internet access’ stories had big headlines (I got a whole bunch of angry responses when I tried to explain it isn’t what it seems) , Cook explanation isn’t even quoted in many FINANCIAL pages (and it’s part of the quarter earnings report) much less in social media etc blogs.

    Sad performance from what I assume is a large and highly paid PR staff. Completely avoidable.

    1. Can one assume that a VPN that requires a “license” from the Communist Red Chinese government is subject to their censoring regulatory edicts? …if that is the case, then what is the difference between cancelling all VPN’s and just keeping the “government-approved” ones?

      I’d say nothing…the insistence by Cook that they’re only allowing the government-approved VPN’s is just sophistry,
      the result is the same: censorship.

      1. It may be “technically” censorship but do you think this is the first application or type of application that some government has a problem with?

        Perhaps Apples “adult content” stance is just a way to not have to deal with 196 potential countries differing laws and rules on adult content?

        My point is, Apple conforms to the laws in the country it operates in.

      2. WTF are you talking about?
        I don’t even know.


        So do you think FOXCONN when they open their factory here SHOULD IGNORE LOCAL USA LAWS?
        YES or NO?

        If there is a USA VPN for CHILD PORN is Donald’s Trumps government going to enforce the law and stop it ? so is that CENSORSHIP? or a hate website : “GO SHOOT AN IDIOT ULTRA RIGHT WINGER today ” — is that fine with the govt. or they going to stop it for hate crime ? NOTE: the comedian that had an effigy of Donald Trump’s head got FIRED. and that’s a COMEDIAN… due to right wing pressure, so why aren’t right wingers for TOTAL Freedom of Expression ? why the CENSORSHIP?

        like T.C pointed out there are still hundreds of VPN apps in China app store plus they have to follow local laws like Foxconn here in USA.

        who do you want to pick fights with me, when I keep showing you are full of sh*t. ? (I keep saying I’m not political, some people think my posts are conservative , I don’t even engage in your rants: see all your posts above — I don’t reply — but you keep wanting to post your stupidities on my thread which are NON POLITICAL but FACTUAL posts on APPLE issues, and I keep trashing you ) WTF huh?

          1. everyone knows who the idiot is.

            so ONE MORE TIME:
            (using YOUR argument: )

            So do you think FOXCONN when they open their factory here SHOULD IGNORE LOCAL USA LAWS?
            YES or NO?

            can’t answer that can you ?

            1. so I guess you couldn’t answer it can you?

              Apple follows local laws , and I believe Foxconn should too.

              but I guess you disagree…

              anyhow for the sake of playing with you:

              Even if Apple disobeyed local Chinese law (which I hope Foxconn would never do in USA) what would it achieve? China would close the app store or something similar? AND HUNDREDS OF LEGAL VPNS WOULD BE LOST as well from the assessing the market. That’s your genius solution ?

              AND you didn’t even answer my questions on USA censorship: Child porn, hate sites, etc. So does even the USA have perfect OPEN INTERNET ? (I didn’t realize Trump supported child porn sites… )

            2. GeoB

              like I said you are not following the thread.
              and get an understanding of ‘rhetorical’ debate.

              of course I don’t believe Donald Trump supports child porn, it’s rhetorical, that’s why I wrote that statement to show that even in USA you can’t have total no govt. censorship.

              you guys are so emotional with DT’s name is put in play have blinkers on.
              (Note I probably read all of DT’s books, like Art of the Deal, Comeback etc. I might not agree with all his stuff as president but I NEVER START a political fight over it, LOOK AT MY FIRST POST botty picked a fight with, it’s NOT political it’s about Apple PR !!!!! )


            3. I don’t need to read so called rhetorical bait debate.

              I don’t need to read fantasy debate.

              I don’t need to read irresponsible FAKE debate.

              I’m only interested in REAL DEBATE.

              SIGH is RIGHT …

            4. GeoB

              the real sad thing is is that I believe you know you made a mistake understanding thread and the rhetorical argument but you DO NOT HAVE THE COURAGE to admit it . That’s even worse than being purely clueless.

            5. @Botty

              “You’re the only one that mentioned Donald Trump.”

              never said YOU did , I said “with DT’s name is put in play” (i.e by me)

              and besides I was answering GEOB.
              I argued that when I put D.T’s name out there he got so hyper he wasn’t reading it properly.

              Botty you can’t even get this right.

              (why do you want to pick fights with me anyhow? I keep trashing you, I keep out of political debates, I criticize Tim Cook as often as I praise him and my posts are mostly factual tech pieces. That’s lots of others who want to debate you.. I have even up voted some of your posts in the past when you talked tech — I’m pretty neutral, I just care about Apple tech…

              BUT if you guys want to trade insults, fine, I got time.
              (made tens of thousands from my aapl going up today so I’m in relaxed ready to go mode, trading insults is just amusement for me … )

            6. GeoB

              “You have a problem with honestly stating your opinion?”

              I’ve stated my opinion? lol.

              too Bad you don’t have the BRAIN power to understand the thread.
              (even Botty didn’t try to get me on those things you misunderstood and i was arguing with HIM ! )

              WHY GO ONTO SOMEBODY’s THREAD and make a FOOL of yourself?

              I think you probably do a good enough job of that (make a fool of yourself that is –hey I want to be clear) by just STANDING OUTSIDE YOUR DOOR
              Do your neighbours say “hey that’s that IDIOT !”

              (see I’m good at trading in insults.
              want to go on? )

            7. “You have a problem with honestly stating your opinion?”

              Are you kidding?

              “too Bad you don’t have the BRAIN power to understand the thread.”

              Oh, I understand all right.

              “WHY GO ONTO SOMEBODY’s THREAD and make a FOOL of yourself?”

              I can go anywhere I want. Unless you are advocating free speech CENSORSHIP!

              “I think you probably do a good enough job of that (make a fool of yourself that is –hey I want to be clear) by just STANDING OUTSIDE YOUR DOOR
              Do your neighbours say “hey that’s that IDIOT !”

              Obvious you don’t recognize the “fool” here.

              “(see I’m good at trading in insults.
              want to go on? )”

              I don’t trade insults as you seem to relish in. Total waste of time. But I will go on answering your misguided sophistry …

            8. GEO B

              here is my original statement, I cut and paste:

              “So does even the USA have perfect OPEN INTERNET ? (I didn’t realize Trump supported child porn sites…”

              YOUR REPLY:

              ““I didn’t realize Trump supported child porn sites… ”
              Post the evidence, brainless …”


              you totally misunderstood my statement.
              You asked me for proof as if I BELIEVED D.T supported child porn but clearly it wasn’t the sentence I wrote.

              it was rhetorical to show that there is no complete open internet even in USA as obviously Trump does not support child porn.

              you did not understand that simple idea and Keep going forward.

              and try to disguise your error by attacks.

              Like I said you don’t have the courage to admit you misunderstood.

              So you are a fool and a coward.

            9. bit off more than you can chew huh?

              so again do you think Foxconn needs to follow USA laws when they open here (like Apple needs to follow China laws). Or should Foxconn disobey like you are asking apple to do ? YES OR NO?

              You argue for COMPLETE open internet yet is there a COMPLETE OPEN internet even in USA ? or does Donald Trump censor it like for hate sites and child porn?
              so is there COMPLETE open internet in USA ?
              SHOULD those many MUSLIM COUNTRIES THAT CENSOR and BAN ISIS sites that advocate and coordinate terrorist acts CONTINUE THIER CENSORSHIP? or should they try YOUR Complete open internet?
              yes or no?

              (note like Cook said : there are hundreds of Chinese VPNs still on Apple’s store so it’s hardly all internet is blocked).

              Does APPLE and other tech companies need to follow USA FCC rules even though many people think the FCC is UNFAIR (like for bandwidth allocation) since you say China VPNs do not need to follow their countries licensing rules ? Well ?

              is China the same as USA that they need the SAME kind of laws as USA? Chinese 1 billion of them have money, education, access to high tech , note they’ve lent the USA near 1 trillion dollars so they are hardly ignorant poor people, they are hardly helpless, they can’t fight for whatever internet they want?
              ( if the Chinese are SOOOOO helpless why are right wing Donald Supporters SOOOOO worried the Chinese will swamp the USA ? hey these people are SO WEAK they can’t even get internet they want.. )

              like I asked before HOW do YOU know what they want?
              (I’ve worked in Asia for 10 years and speak Cantonese, my brother longer, he worked in Shanghai and speaks both cantonese and Mandarin. And I don’t exactly know the China situation but YOU do? really ? )

              Why do you advocate Apple INTERFERE with China when one of the basic tenets of Donald your hero’s isolationist America First philosophy is to avoid foreign issues that do not affect USA (or apple ) interests and this VPN hardly does …

              Donald Trump Transcript:
              “Very bad. It all began with a dangerous idea that we could make western democracies out of countries that had no experience or interests in becoming a western democracy … First, our resources are totally over extended….. We’re rebuilding other countries while weakening our own… We’re getting out of the nation-building business.”


              so do you completely disagree with Trump?


              (I’m just having a good time and I can make you look like a TURD IDIOT how many times you like . I don’t believe I’m wasting time as in ‘Child Mode’ I’m having fun)

              Well anymore? I can go pages and pages…

            10. botvinnik,

              Your distinction between “local regulations” and “binding principles” is rather interesting from a philosophical and theological point of view. We used to debate related issues for hours in my seminary classes, usually in the form of distinguishing between “moral laws” like “thou shalt do no murder,” and “ceremonial regulations” like “shellfish are an unclean food.” As with your distinction, one category is ethically binding and the other not.

              The problem, of course, is that at the time that a particular law is adopted, the lawmaker intends it to be legally binding, and being a law-abiding member of the community is ethically obligatory. In Ancient Israel, you could be executed for eating prawns just as much as for committing murder. The real question is whether a particular law has lost its moral force with the passage of time, such that it has become both a legal and ethical dead letter. For most modern Christians (and many Jews), murder is still immoral but eating crawfish gumbo is not.

              From the Chinese point of view, prohibiting political disruption is just as binding a legal principle as prohibiting child pornography. If you want to live or work in China, and you don’t want to be arrested, you have to obey both laws. If Apple wants to do business in China, it has to obey all the local laws, not just the ones they agree with. They can’t break any Chinese law and expect to get away with it. Obviously, they can leave the country, as I assume you are demanding that they do, but they can’t just ignore the law.

              So, again we come back to the key issue: is it consistent with the fiduciary responsibilities of Apple management for them to take steps that will result in shutting down production of almost all of their products for possibly several years? As others have noted, the unlicensed VPN apps are going away no matter what Apple does; all that remains is to see what else is going away, too.

            11. a sensible logically response like yours TX is wasted with GEOB, botty…

              I started this thread with a factual tech piece on Apple PR and they went into insults .

              me I’ve gone into TOTAL CHILD MODE to just play with them for amusement . Neither of them are actually interested in logically understanding an issue, they just want a flame war but not very good at it.

        1. “NOTE: the comedian that had an effigy of Donald Trump’s head got FIRED. and that’s a COMEDIAN… due to right wing pressure, so why aren’t right wingers for TOTAL Freedom of Expression ?”

          And that’s a comedian, OK. So correct me if I am wrong, you are saying a comedian gets a secret service pass for holding up a THREATENING bloody severed head (FAKE) ISIS style and is absolved because she works in entertainment? Are you kidding? Try and sell that exclusion 🐂💩 to the working class.

          Show me the proof that she got fired because of President Trump and right wing pressure. I’ll save you the effort — NONE EXIST.

          Please try and keep up with reality … 🤔

          1. nope that was rhetorical , you didn’t follow the thread

            , I was arguing with Botty whose argument was that there should be TOTAL FREEDOM and NO CENSORSHIP.
            I’m just pointing out (like my child porn example) it don’t work always.

            by your statement ” holding up a THREATENING bloody severed head (FAKE) ISIS style and is absolved because she works in entertainment? Are you kidding? ” etc RANT YOU WANT to CENSOR her.

            In any case to be clear I don’t think people should be carrying around the presidents head.

            as for “Show me the proof that she got fired because of President Trump and right wing pressure.”

            eh.. they just fired the person with no pressure applied?
            OK whatever.. 🙂

            I sure as hell not going to waste my time digging for PROOF about pressure on that head issue as, I DON’T REALLY CARE …
            I keep saying I’m NOT political but you guys like Botty always want want to pick fights with me AND POLITICIZE my NON POLITICAL factual apple posts.

            CHILL OUT people , go get a soapbox and stand in the park… .

            1. and you are twice as stupid as a hog swimming in mud.

              or are you panties too tight and cutting oxygen to your brain?

              want to pick a fight with me? fine.
              let’s go.

            2. “I don’t fight … ”

              so WHY are you here?, YOU started the fight with me, lol, fighting on MY THREAD on a debate between me and someone else ! ?
              (g’wad you are stupid, providing free ammo… )

              and if I was a juvenile.. you’re getting ass kicked by a kid! Imagine what an adult would do to you.


              You are REALLY bad at this flame war thing aren’t you ?

              LOOSEN those panties dude, oxygen ! you need oxygen! …

            3. GeoB

              “Well, enjoy your delusion ”

              no delusion but i AM enjoying myself.

              don’t want to START flame wars but I sure have a good time bashing idiots who come insulting ON MY THREAD, especially those who attack without understanding the thread’s ideas or even basic sentences (like you).


  5. Tim saying “he first category is app development. About three-quarters of the 2 million are app developers.” is like to Auto industry claiming every oil patch job as something they created.

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