“There perhaps has never been a more interesting time to write about Apple and its growing impact on the computer, telecommunications, and music worlds. Unfortunately, it also means that I have to witness (and sometimes join) a daily descent into a pit of mudslinging,” Tom Krazit blogs for CNET.
“Their size and degree of organization can be debated, and it’s usually overstated. But there is no question that Macintosh users are by far the most passionate advocates for their products in the technology industry. And while such passion is remarkable and even moving, it can also be terribly disturbing,” Krazit writes.
“I think the roots of this zealotry go back to a time when Apple was on the ropes financially and someone who worked on a Mac was ridiculed by other computer users. Ten years ago, Mac users in the corporate world were viewed as rubes playing with ‘toys’ not suitable for getting real work done, and there were plenty of people ready to remind the Mac community in not-so-subtle ways that the revolution promised in the 1980s by the original Macintosh was being fulfilled by Microsoft software,” Krazit writes.
“Windows users, who had almost forgotten about the Mac, initially laughed at Mac users and their intense love for a plastic cube of electronics. But then, as Apple starting gaining market share and increasing respect for its design chops, they started to fight back,” Krazit writes.
“Mac users feel an affinity to both their machines and their fellow users that the rest of the world simply doesn’t share. For some, it’s the emphasis on design, both in hardware and software. For others, it’s the way Apple focuses on applications that make it easier for them to be creative,” Krazit writes.
“Now that Apple has momentum on its side, does this finally mean we’re nearing a day when we can have a coherent discussion of the pros and cons of Apple’s approach to the computing world?” ” Krazit asks.
“Probably not. After all, the Mac community has all the momentum on its side, and is unlikely to lift its foot off the gas now that more people are starting to come around to its point of view,” Krazit writes. “And Apple hasn’t stopped making Mac vs. PC ads.”
Full article – we recommend reading the entire article, as it contains other points we have not excerpted and are not addressing below – here.
[Thanks to MacDailyNews Reader “Ampar” for the heads up.]
MacDailyNews Take: What’s really disturbing is how Krazit blames the sometimes — okay, oftentimes — vitriolic online Mac vs. PC debates nearly totally on Mac users. Windows PC users get a free pass from Krazit, even though they are the ones who are almost always arguing from a position of ignorance. If you believe that Krazit is really “terribly disturbed” by Mac users’ passion, then you probably said “Wow!” (geniunely, not sarcastically) when you saw Windows Vista.
We contend that the majority of Mac users have used a recent vintage Windows PC (and considering their “preferred” OS is the over 6-year-old Windows XP, the term “recent” is as laughable as it is debatable). Mac users are often forced to suffer 8+ hours with a Windows PC while at work or for some period of time in a school classroom. Certainly, most Mac users have ample opportunities to be inflicted with Windows in Internet cafes or at friend’s and relative’s houses. We also contend that the majority of Windows PC users have not used a Mac recently, or at all, for any meaningful period of time. If they had, of course, they’d already be Mac users.
The point is: Mac users have used both Mac OS X and Windows. Most Windows PC sufferers*, in our experience, have little to no idea about the Mac. But, for some reason, that doesn’t stop them from contributing every fallacy they’ve ever heard about the “MAC” or castigating “them Apple users” for “wasting their money on pretty Apples” when “PCs are cheaper.” Etc., etc., etc. Don’t blame Mac users when they get frustrated with idiots who know little or nothing about which they are writing.
Imagine someone lived in, oh, say, Singapore all their lives. One day, they decide to surf on over to L.L. Bean’s website and begin commenting, very confidently and often quite vehemently, on the qualities of — and even questioning the need for — winter coats, ski pants, hats, and mittens. It wouldn’t take long for those with actual experience to blast Mr. Equator a new icehole, now would it?
Krazit acts as if Windows PC users just woke up and just now starting to “fight back.” We don’t know which discussion boards Krazit’s been reading, but you’d think he’d try some of CNET’s, wouldn’t you? There are many years and millions of examples of “iceholery” on CNET alone, not to mention the rest of the Web. Where’s Krazit been all these years?
In our experience, many Mac users don’t like being told to use Windows to access a service that’s supposed to be open to paying customers. We don’t like being told to use Internet Explorer to access websites that are supposedly open to the public. Many consider Bill Gates to be a thief and a liar, not a genius and a saint. We think of Windows as a Mac cloning experiment gone hideously wrong: all upside-down, backwards, and deformed due to myriad quests to satisfy legal loopholes, instead of satisfying the needs of its users. Microsoft is a follower. Apple is the leader. We all use Macs today, whether they’re the real thing or the clone-gone-wrong. After over two decades, many Mac users are tired of hearing the same old uninformed, tired myths from sufferers of poorly faked Macs. Excuse us if we get snippy from time to time.
The bottom line: Most Mac users have used both Macs and Windows and made an informed choice. Most Windows PC sufferers have not. A rock and a hammer are each “only tools” and “just a personal choice” when all you’ve ever used is a rock. Hammer users just have to laugh. And, Krazit’s right, these feet are never coming off the gas.
Krazit actually says it all with, “Mac users feel an affinity to both their machines and their fellow users that the rest of the world simply doesn’t share.” You’d think that non-Mac users would stop there for at least a second and ask themselves, “Why is that? What am I missing here?” Sadly, many of them just bang straight to the comments section and begin doling out their “wisdom” as usual.
*We use the term “Windows sufferers” in order to try to wake up certain people and draw attention to the fact that it’s possible to suffer even if you’re unaware of your condition or are unable to recognize that there is simple and elegant solution available to alleviate it.
[UPDATE 3:59pm EST: Added “Windows sufferers” explanation.]
Mac users have used both Mac OS X and Windows. Most Windows PC sufferers*, in our experience, have little to no idea about the Mac….
That about sums it up right there doesn’t it. I feel “I CAN” compare the two because I use BOTH every single day, hours and hours a day….
The Windows driven PC works, the Mac works the way it “SHOULD”, I use a PC because sometimes I have to, I use the Mac because I WANT TO! I can’t help but try and turn other people on to something I have found makes life a little easier, a little more fun. They are both tools, the Mac is just a better made tool.
Jim
Krazit winds up and tosses a meatball right down the middle of the plate.
MDN smacks it so hard, they knock the cover right off the ball! It still hasn’t come down!
While I definitely agree that respect and cordiality should rule, I’ve also felt the rabidness of the response of the Windows fanbois when posting on ZDnet and eWeek’s boards. The vitriol and rancor is just as evident there as here. It’s easy to be nasty anonymously. This is only partly the legacy of the abuse Mac users have been heaped with over the years. It’s also fallout from becoming the norm in political discussions in the US since the early 80s.
Maybe Shakespeare’s curse has really happened:
A plague on both your houses.
I think the reason these articles focus more on the Mac users in this debate is because the outspoken ones are a much larger percentage of the base than on the Windows side. This is probably attributed to the fact that by default, Joe Blow will be a Windows user, doesn’t care much about technology, and thus is not outspoken about it.
Many people will agree with us when we say that Mac/OSX provides a much better experience than PC/Windows. But some won’t. To persuade these people you can either talk down to them (as I have seen countless times all over the internet), or you can explain the benefits and engage in a rational conversation. Unfortunately, most people today choose the former (on both sides of the aisle).
Joop: Spot on.
I am STILL dealing Micros**t ‘fans’ animosity, bias and ignorance. It’s amazing.
So, as long as I keep hearing the sheep bleating about how Macs are toys blah de freaking blah *I* will continue to brag about the Mac and do so unashamedly.
Quite honestly it’s a genuine mystery how any thinking person can defend a company with such a reprehensible ethics record as Micros**t.
But there’s still hope.
The tide is turning and I for one have no intention of ‘taking my foot off the gas’.
Good articles both – but MDN much more realistic I think.
I have to use and support PCs and Macs. Over the years more of the clients are switching to apple and that’s great – my work is becoming much easier and the whole thing about mac fan boys (& girls) is becoming obvious at all of the clients. 5 years ago they’d go buy themselves PCs without thinking. Now they think – and buy apples, then suggest to family they buy apples, suggest to strangers in the street they buy apples – why? because they actually like using them… Why do they like using them? because they’ve tried both. In most cases they had no choice – their work machines became apples because their bosses made an informed decision – they used to argue about taking the PCs home but now I’ve got to recycle them because no one wants them. They ask me now if they can have the new apple when it’s 3 years old when it first appears – because they really really want them at home. All paid up passionate for apple now.
It’s not rocket science – they are actually really good computers.
It’s interesting how loud PC users who’ve never used Apples are – why I wonder?
Is it a bit like the Hitler youth being loud about some one who objected to what was happening in Germany?
Possibly think for themselves?
Probably not. It’s a shame.
Apathetic mediocrity is a crime – it allows way too many evils into the world – and then lets them stay and rule.
Of course Apple users are fanatic.
Anyone who’s seen the truth gets upset when friends and family are inflicted with pain unnecessarily… At least if they have a heart they will.
What kind of dick gets on a Mac fan site and blathers on about Mac fans?
I wouldn’t be caught dead wasting my life on some stupid Dull site. Eughh.
Who took the scotch tape?
Happiness is coming home after a day of forced Windows usage and waking my little iBook. I feel so calm and mellow – until I come to the MS trolls on MDN. Any wonder I detest those dirtballs?
His statements are symptomatic of a much larger and global issue. A lot of people are dusting this under the carpet and trying to ignore it, but it simply will not go away.
Consider a couple of his statemtents:
“But there is no question that Macintosh users are by far the most passionate advocates for their products in the technology industry. And while such passion is remarkable and even moving, it can also be terribly disturbing,”
Yes, passion can be disturbing for those void of it.
“Windows users, who had almost forgotten about the Mac, initially laughed at Mac users and their intense love for a plastic cube of electronics”
Yes, laugh at people who love, sweep them under the carpet.
And that is the core of the situation right now on the planet. Those many who live to propagate FUD and greed and work to hold back the light of the human(e) potential.
“”Now that Apple has momentum on its side, does this finally mean we’re nearing a day when we can have a coherent discussion of the pros and cons of Apple’s approach to the computing world?” “
I doubt it. I remember many attempts at coherent discussions with IT people.
Me: Used both a Mac and Windows within the last 24 hours.
Them: Used Windows within the last 24 hours, a few years since they saw the last Mac, and of course were comparing the recent version of Windows to a Mac operating system several years old.
I put a lot of arguments to rest like that, letting the IT people go on and on and on before asking them the simple question “When was the last time you were on a Mac?”
This is a bigger issue, this is about those who show lack of knowledge, respect tolerance for people who wish to love. Love will always prevail.
<Krazit actually says it all with, “Mac users feel an affinity to both their machines and their fellow users that the rest of the world simply doesn’t share.” You’d think that non-Mac users would stop there for at least a second and ask themselves, “Why is that? What am I missing here?” Sadly, many of them just bang straight to the comments section and begin doling out their “wisdom” as usual.>
The a-holes commenting at C|Net are mostly GAMERS. MacSux T-Shirt wearing, APPL hating Gamers. Do not go there. You are wasting your time. Clicking on ANY negative article Mac link gives power to them. Don’t feed trolls. Stay away from negative links at MacSurfer. Comment only on articles at neutral sites. Make anti-MS comments as nasty as you like.
The Krazit story on C|Net is Black PR from MS. It’s a response to APPL’s ads which are very effective and very troubling to MS.
Keep the pedal to the metal.
I’m flooring the accelerator!
Who is this impostor?
Dude your not funny. Not at all.
Who is this impostor?
Dude your not funny. Not at all.
Who is this impostor?
Dude your not funny. Not at all.
Who is this impostor?
Dude your not funny. Not at all.
Who is this impostor?
Dude your not funny. Not at all.
Why SHOULD mac users apologise to windows users?
You pay your money and make your choice, if people are stupid enough to think in this modern age that windows is the only choice then I pity them.
Well here’s a message for you windows users ‘ GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ARSE, TAKE OF YOUR BLINKERS AND GO INTO AN APPLE STORE AND TRY A MAC.
Gone are the days of the choice is windows.
In this modern age there is a wide choice of OS’s available, and yes you can run them ALL on a Mac.
We Mac users as a community do not forget that we were ripped off, copied and treated with disrespect by the industry. It has nothing to do with ten years ago, or when Apple was in financial jeopardy. It’s simply our awareness of history and the fact that the best platform was marginalized without any basis on quality.
For new Mac users it’s simply an awareness of having have found out how positive computing can be.
When journalists portray Mac users as being fanatical, instead of loyal happy customers, it’s both insulting and a sad reflection of their ignorance.
It’s not because we Mac users were in love with our “plastic cube of electronics.” (He’s referring to the original Mac form? Dude, the Mac has always had better form factors than Windows boxes. Your “plastic cube of electronics” is another slam you are sneaking in against the Mac.) No, it’s because we are happy customers. Why can’t you understand that?
The Mac has always been superior in virtually every way — with some exceptions where third party software were either crippled, purposely slowed down, or unavailable on Macs as opposed to Windows.
The Mac came first. The Mac was a revolution ahead of its time. It HAS changed the world. Windows can claim none of that. Windows is a distorted corporate nightmare version of the Mac, copied from the Mac, and will always remain such, inferior.
“”Now that Apple has momentum on its side, does this finally mean we’re nearing a day when we can have a coherent discussion of the pros and cons of Apple’s approach to the computing world?” ” Krazit asks.”
Not as long as we have to face the inherent nonsense of op-ed pieces such as yours, Mr. Krazit.
I’ve been using Macs since they came to the market and can tell you flat out, Mr. Krazit, that Mac users did not start the vitriolic name calling you accuse us of.
Yeah it’s like saying don’t go into Second Life, it’s full of sex and gambling. Like the internet is at least 50% porn and gambling. What’s the problem.
While Tom Krazit may not understand all the idiosyncrasies of Mac users, likewise Mac users don’t totally understand the PC world. Despite MDN’s rant and using the term “Windows Sufferers”, it must escape the comprehension of many Mac users that some of us actually LIKE the PC and Windows better than the Mac.
I’ve used both extensively and prefer Windows. Unfortunately I’m also the proud owner of a MacBook Pro that “Blue Screened” after it’s Leopard upgrade, and haven’t gotten around to fixing it yet. Macs have just as many problems, if not more, than PC’s – they’re just different.
Its true that we don’t need to circle the wagons as tightly these days, but while I still have friends, family and colleagues with PCs (a dwindling set), people whose complaints I still have to endure, I will keep beating the drum: GET A MAC!
@Jooop
“How do you explain icecream to someone who’s only ever eaten mashed potatoes his entire life? You don’t. You just give him a taste, and he’ll take it from there. The hard part is just getting him to taste it. The older he is, the more resistant he will be to new experiences.”
Nicely put.
[I’ve used both extensively and prefer Windows.]
…because you use your ‘Real Business Computer’ to play all the latest bitchin’ games.
[Unfortunately I’m also the proud owner of a MacBook Pro]
Unfortunately? Why?
[that “Blue Screened” after it’s Leopard upgrade,]
Was the blue screen a reflection from your ‘RBC’ game rig?
[and haven’t gotten around to fixing it yet.]
…because… You’re lazy? You don’t actually have a Mac. You read somewhere at ZDnet that 10.5 is having problems? So you’d like to gang up, too.
[Macs have just as many problems, if not more, than PC’s]
Name five.
[they’re just different.]
Because you can’t buy one at 7-11?