“The Supreme Court handed movie studios and record labels a sweeping victory against file-swapping, ruling Monday that peer-to-peer companies such as Grokster could be held responsible for the copyright piracy on their networks,” John Borland reports for CNET News. “In a unanimous decision, the justices ruled companies that build businesses with the active intent of encouraging copyright infringement should be held liable for their customers’ illegal actions.”
Earlier today, before the decision, “Piper Jaffray said iTunes, the online music-download service from Apple Computer, ‘would be the primary beneficiary’ in its category of a Supreme Court decision against peer-to-peer, or P2P, file sharing. Piper Jaffray noted that iTunes has a 70% market share in online music. ‘We believe a decision against P2P file sharing would be positive for online content distribution companies, as a slowdown in P2P activity would likely lead to a pick-up in sales for legitimate online content providers,'” Forbes reports.
Full article here.
newmsubob–Let me put this bluntly. You are an effing thief, and any of your whiny excuses are just that…excuses. Intellectual property is property, no different than a car, a house, or my computer. You steal any of my property, you will be caught, you will be arrested, you will be tried, and you will be convicted of a felony. Then you will go to a prison, where Bubba will be using you as his personal girlfriend.
I have no sympathy for your pathetic excuses. I hope you continue doing your illegal deeds, and when the FBI or local police show up at your front door, be warned that your dad is not going to be able to save your ass.
Face it punk. YOU are a thief.
Oh by the way newmsubob the punk thief. I paid for my own way through college. I paid for my own way through grad school. And I spent several years in the US Navy serving my country to pay back 4 years in Medical School. I don’t commit crimes, because first, I like my medical license and security clearance to stay active. Also, because I have morals and ethics, which apparently your amoral and unethical mind does not understand. And finally, I’m not a communist, so I believe if someone creates a work, whether building my house or making a DVD, they own it so that they can create an income for themselves, their company and their employees. You’re stealing from them. Sure, George Lucas is not going to starve if you steal his video. But maybe enough of you punks do it, he needs to fire a few people, not hire a college grad or two, or quits selling DVD’s period.
I hope you NEVER show up in my office looking for a job, because I would hire you…as someone who cleans the toilet.
You’re a jerk.
Hi all,
Maybe I’m spoiled. Maybe some of you are a little too self-righteous. Who knows? Once more unto the breach, dear friends…
“You surely would be entitled to transfer ‘your’ personal copy of Star Wars onto your laptop. And how does the answer to your question relate in the least little bit to you obtaining an illegal copy off a P2P network?”
Let’s look at this from a software licensing prospective to see how it relates. I own a legal and paid-for copy of Microsoft Office 2004 for Mac. Pretend that my copy of the optical media is pulverized in a tragic accident of some kind. Now, pretend that my friend owns Office 2004 for Mac also. Is it wrong to use HIS optical media along with MY Certificate of Authenticity if I ever need to reinstall the darn program??? Of course it is not wrong! I paid for the dang program in the form of a license. As long as I don’t have to STEAL another person’s media to use with my license, I am not doing anything wrong, IMHO. I view the p2p issue in this fashion. Maybe that’s flawed… but I view it that way nonetheless.
Lastly, I think that we should discuss “black and white”. If I were to suggest that it is wrong to kill, even occasionally, you might say that I am an upstanding citizen. HOWEVER, if I had an opportunity to kill Hitler during WWII and end the war, would killing still be wrong???
I’m not comparing the p2p debate to Hitler’s significance in history… just using it to illustrate that sometime right and wrong can be gray, not white or black.
Regards,
newmsubob
Just thinking out loud: Content providers (e.g. record labels) or their distributors (e.g. iTunes) need to figure out how to provide unique value people will pay for.
It is not clear to me why any consumer of music would have a real interest in “owning” a digital song. A physical vinyl record or CD with a booklet etc., OK. I think we all want our personal library of music, play it at any time, anywhere, but do we really need to “own” the song? I bet many consumers would gladly pay a monthly fee to a company like Apple, for providing the content and software to browse content, and for storing a personal library of music. But, the bottom line is that it has to provide more value than file sharing.
The problem is even more interesting when it comes to a $50 movie. I doubt many people want to “own” a digital version of it, when you can either download it for free (OK, it’s illegal), or rent it for a few bucks. So, Apple, provide all your content for a flat monthly fee – there’s no way around it anyway.
Hey newmsubob, got any F Troop episodes from any of those P2P sites?
Seems the studio won’t touch DVD’s because the show was too politically incorrect!
So all you people who brought music or movies on your computer. You people don’t have not one song or movie on your computer that you ever ever ever download without paying is hard to believe. Look everybody use P2P at one time or another. So if they want to download for free, it up to them. But don’t throw stones when you yourself live in a glass house.
newmsubob–wrong bub. This is not grey, only in your pathetic, IQ 81 brain. You’re a thief, and only you think it’s a grey issue. It is, just stealing, and your rationalization is what punks your age do all the time…rationalize.
And as for Hitler, WTF???? Did you go online to http://www.ethics.com to find some stupid ass comparison to your thievery??? Hitler killed untold millions of people. You’re stealing!
So, now you’ve proven you’re a thief and a complete idiot. My God, I hope the next generation doesn’t rely upon you for anything but possibly a commission in some dope-selling gang somewhere.
ihatedell…every single downloaded song, movie or other piece of intellectual property on all three of my Macs are either paid for or are from the public domain (as clearly stated in the license for that particular piece of art).
AND, I would dare say every computer in my corporation is the same, mainly because I am the CEO, and I’ve made it very clear that when an IT person scans a hard drive, they will be fired with cause if any are found.
In addition, all of my friends do not download songs, and have taken computers from their kids who have. They have erased hard discs of their kids who steal music. My daughter has an iPod and iMac, and she has a $50/month iTunes budget. She NEVER shares or downloads music (since her inheritance and trust fund depends on me, she’s pretty careful).
newmsubob,
You said:
“Also, at one time, I PURCHASED (or was given as a gift) both the THX and 97 editions on VHS. I got rid of them in anticipation of the DVD’s (my mistake).”
When you disposed of the tapes, you disposed of your right to use them.
You also said:
“Sometimes there is no other way to get the material. Two examples… Before they came out on DVD, some people did not have access to Star Trek: Enterprise episodes; UPN does not yet exist in all markets. If one is a Star Trek fan, how else is he/she supposed to gain access to the episodes?”
Well, you don’t copy them illegally off the p2p networks. Just because they aren’t available on your medium of choice, doesn’t give you free license to copy them off the p2p networks.
And you said:
“Also, there are a lot of old phonographs that contain material that is still copywritten, but is not available on CD.”
Copyright law allows you to make a copy for personal use as long as you own the original. The key here is owning the original.
So, you can argue all you want about not having done anything wrong, but you use your own personal examples to counter your claims. The one example that I don’t think anyone will quibble about is having an Office 2004 license that you paid for with defective media and using another’s good disk to install it.
Man, lots of self-rightousness and venom on this topic.
I just hope those with extreme sensibilities about P2P, etc. have never borrowed a CD or Video for listening or viewing without paying the creator or distributor some sort of viewing or listening fee, because in its essence, that could be considered unauthorized viewing or listening, or, again, theft.
OK, OnlyMacs
So you are a CEO. That make you above everybody. Your kids don’t share CD ‘s with their friends and put on their computers, if so they are stealing, cause that the same as P2P, but not over the internet. they are swapping CD’s between themselves and one of them is not paying for it. So the artist or them company not making money off that person too. And the the people that work for you the same. So if brought in a CD to work and put it on my computer and a partner who work next to me put my CD on his computer too can get fired in your company. That sad, that really sad. that what wrong with companys today. Worried about what his or she have on a computer and not looking at their work and paying for a job well done. But your pay go up every year and theirs stay the same for what 2 or 3 or maybe 4 years before they beg for that little money you call a paycheck. It must be nice to live in that big old house and drive that nice car and your kids live that nice to have a $50 a month of ITune. I LOVE AMERICA. You work real hard don’t you. I mean you come home after a hard days work and kiss your wife and kids and say that magic word WHAT TO EAT Oh sorry What for dinner Dear. You call your little buddies on the phone and joke about how was your golf game and that new BMW running . But you don’t have not one song on your computer that you yourself download without paying. LAIR LAIR LAIR LAIR pants on fire HA HA HA HA
justified,
Hmmm….self-rightousness? Surely you must have meant something else. People are only trying to highlight to newmsubob the falacies in his rationalization for taking something that isn’t his to take.
I still haven’t seen anyone step up and support his explanation… unless you want to be the first.
Hi all,
I urge all of you to take a look at the MacWorld/MacCentral boards and see how very civil they are keeping it over there. Many of them disagree with one another, but nasty insults have yet to fly over there.
Concerning my Hitler example, I did not get that from the Internet. I first got the idea from one of my professors. This professor teaches philosophy and ethics at the university where I am seeking my degree (not the university that I mentioned previously). He also teaches ethics etc. at one of the United States’ military academies (Air Force Academy, Annapolis, WestPoint, etcetera). In other words he is a qualified teacher of ethics and philosophy.
Back to the topic at hand, I understand and respect your opinions on the p2p debate. And because of this ruling by the Court, I probably won’t have any choice but to go with the iTunes music store soon anyway. Just remember that your precious iTunes music store, with its limited but admittedly growing non-pop selection, owes its existence to the original Napster.
Finally, to the person who threatened not to give me a job… My email address is similar enough to newmsubob that you’ll be able to identify me if I ever give you me resume. Fell free to throw me out on my ear if you so desire.
Regards,
newmsubob
Dell, I’m not going to reply to most of what you’ve said. However, if someone’s ethics includes stealing property while on the company computer, how am I to trust their ethics when they are responsible for manufacturing and selling devices that are critical to ones life. Sorry, but in my career in the Navy, in medicine and in business is that a person’s ethics are the same throughout their life. I run a company that depends on intellectual property not being stolen by competitors, by other countries, or by the government. I tend to be highly protective of that.
I drive a Honda Ridgeline truck, if you must know. I’m not married. I hate golf. I spend much of my free time providing free medical care and cycling, so I’m not too interested in spending time stealing music. Oh yeah, I’m in the USNR, so I have to give time the USA. And yes, there isn’t a single song on my computer that I haven’t purchased from iTunes or ripped from my own CD collection.
Lastly, I don’t think I’m above anybody. Well, I don’t like criminals all that much.
IHateDell,
You wouldn’t be bitter or hostile against people who believe in capitalism or those of us who have worked very hard to become successful, would you?
Nah…… I didn’t think so.
newmsubob,
One last suggestion… in the future, try to stay away from using anything dealing with Hitler/Nazism as a defence in an argument.
You’re WAY past the point of losing credibility when you have to resort to that.
Again, that was just a suggestion.
I absolutely cannot support newmsubob’s position on the grounds that illegal downloads are, well, illegal. And that IS stealing.
I also will not advocate ripping into newmsubob or anyone as an “effin” thief based on self-molded ethics. P2P file sharing is theft. By the same rules, borrowing media for viewing or listening or copying without paying some sort of fee is theft. It just doesn’t require a computer or network, so many don’t see it as such. But in principle, it is the same.
I simply think we can make our points about how P2P file swapping damages the industry without being so severe. Unless one has an absolutely spotless code of ethics, the venom is completely unnecessary.
Hi all,
Can we PLEASE stop insulting others in this thread?!?
We don’t have to agree on the p2p issue. We, regardless of which side we’re taking in this debate, should stop the childish name-calling.
Regards,
newmsubob
OnlyMacs,
Well IF that person is on the computer downloading music or movies while at work, He or She is really not working at all. So YOUR FIRED as if Mr. Trump would say. But you said you don’t have not one song from download or your CD’s collection. WOW now that hard to believe. Not from your very own collection. Even Apple show how to download your own CD’s in to ITune. That not stealing. that yours.
BUT you said all your friends do not download songs and taken computers from their kids who have. How do you know what songs that your friends and you know to erase. What if they download a CD or just a song from a CD that your kids have or borrow from a friend and you and your left field gang of the right just take and erase. WOW WOW I just love some people way.And I don’t care way you drive, that was a example of a life of a CEO. Everybody different .And you are not married that good too.All I’m saying is that everybody have done it at one time or another. If they the ones want to do it so be it. But this is a free country at one time. Now everybody wants to know what the next person is doing. Who cares ? Life is to short And I hate golf too
Sizewell,
I’m not bitter. I just hate when people tried to be so right about what they do in their life. If you see 5 dollars on the ground . Would pick it up and ask who 5 is this. NO And for CEO I don’t care for them either.At one time they might have put in a hard day work. But do they. Do they stay late night and work next to that person who only making min wage or 10 or 20 or what that person make ahour. NO
Do that CEO come in to work and say what up Jim how the family. OH NO. Think about what you are saying. CEO don’t really talk to to bottomfeeders. They the ones who really get the work. Really think about it.
Hi all,
This will be my last post of the day on this thread:
Here is the issue that is at the heart of our discussion. Does something being illegal also make it wrong? Let me give you a NON-HITLER example that should still be drastic enough to communicate the purpose of my question.
What if an 18 year-old guy and a 17-year old girl are dating and then they both decide that they want to become lovers. The girl gets pregnant, the guy gets a job in anticipation of having a child to support, but the girl’s parents become angry at the situation. The girl’s parents sue the guy and get him convicted of rape, a felony that will mark him for life as a criminal. This type of situation DOES happen in the U.S. on a semi-regular basis. Just use google to look it up if you don’t believe me.
Now, is the guy a bad person… he did plan on supporting his kid after all? Maybe he isn’t the brightest bulb in the box, but he is not a criminal. The law says that he is but my common sense says that he isn’t.
Just something to ponder…
Regards,
newmsubob
OK. This thread has reached into the twilight zone.
@newmsubob:
Ah, common sense – the great oxymoron of our time! If common sense were really that common, then the law and social morés would always be in step with common consensus.
However, common sense and the law are often at odds – the law (well, American law at least) enshrines the “right to bear arms” (albeit predicated on the need to maintain the security of a free state), but common sense says that when [B]30,000[/B] gun-related deaths happen every year, maybe it shouldn’t be legal to sell assault weapons to all and sundry. That’s what many police chiefs think, that’s what a lot of the American public think, but – for reasons passing understanding – you can now buy assault weapons again: So much for common sense!
Sadly, your example of the “star-crossed” lovers is still flawed in any number of ways: the law is the law, no matter how badly framed or irrational. And your opportunities to confront bad laws and those who support them manifest themselves at the ballot box.
I wonder if everyone in this forum sticks to the posted speed limit.
Everyone just calm down, take a deep breath, and read what people who were ACTUALLY actively involved in the case have to say:
http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/archives/003749.php
newmsubob, in the future, just stick to the facts and avoid any “what if” corollaries which contain the words “Hitler” or “Star Trek” (unless you’re on a Nazi or Star Trek site, of course), and you’ll be taken far more seriously on the internet. I think I see what you’re saying. I don’t necessarily agree with your line of reasoning (it’s just one weak premise after another, none of which defend your argument), but I understand where you’re intent lies.
[And look, everyone, I didn’t have to resort to ad hominem attacks or provide my truly admirable resumé and/or W-2 to show how much better I am than newmsubob. All I had to do is disagree, and tell him what I disagree with, in particular.
You certainly can tell when the kids get out of school around here…]
The cooler heads will (hopefully) prevail. Upon a critical reading of Souter’s opinion for the court, most people in the know basically believe he’s saying that Grokster could be found liable for its marketing practices, not for the underlying technology. The Supremes seem to be focusing solely on the inducement factor and studiously ignoring Betamax and vicarious liability. They’re treading on thin ice with inducement, but not giving an opinion on the extreme positions gives P2P proponents something to work with. This case was a draw. With a slight edge toward Hollywood.
This case is more than P2P; this is about Hollywood wanting the power to dictate how and when an innovative product is made available to consumers. Surely all of the “free market” folks out there can see how this runs counter to their argument that the studios and labels are merely protecting what is theirs, since apparently their true concern is becoming the arbiter of what is OURS. Believing in a free market economy does not equal being a shill for multimedia conglomerates.
Smarter people than ANYONE on this board are discussing this case in other corners of the internet. Getting out of the MDN ghetto and seeing what others think might do some of you some good. At least it might teach you civility and humility…