“The Supreme Court handed movie studios and record labels a sweeping victory against file-swapping, ruling Monday that peer-to-peer companies such as Grokster could be held responsible for the copyright piracy on their networks,” John Borland reports for CNET News. “In a unanimous decision, the justices ruled companies that build businesses with the active intent of encouraging copyright infringement should be held liable for their customers’ illegal actions.”
Earlier today, before the decision, “Piper Jaffray said iTunes, the online music-download service from Apple Computer, ‘would be the primary beneficiary’ in its category of a Supreme Court decision against peer-to-peer, or P2P, file sharing. Piper Jaffray noted that iTunes has a 70% market share in online music. ‘We believe a decision against P2P file sharing would be positive for online content distribution companies, as a slowdown in P2P activity would likely lead to a pick-up in sales for legitimate online content providers,'” Forbes reports.
Full article here.
The main reason Windows based music services are having trouble is because Windows users are used to stealing software for their computers. They are also used to poor quality software. It is a simple thing to transfer this preference to free, poor quality music from P2P networks. Second best is what the windows world is all about.
The iTunes, iPod, iTMS trojan horse is slowly opening up their eyes. iTunes is not all about selling iPods or digital music, it’s all about increasing Mac market share.
That is what this ruling is going to do. It will increase Mac market share.
Next time you bitch about another iPod article, remember it’s all about Mac market share.
This is definitely a win for Apple. It’s a win for the other online music distributors as well.
The mothership just keeps rolling.
Wow. I can’t wait to check out what the “Free information” extremists on Slashdot have to say. This news should hit that site like an H-bomb.
Also annouced today on Macworld.co.uk:
“Patches issued for critical RealPlayer flaws”
“The most serious of the bugs, which affects RealPlayers on the Windows, Macintosh and Linux operating systems, takes advantage of a bug in the RealText file format that is used in SMIL (Synchronized Multimedia Integration Language) files, according to Michael Sutton, director of iDefense’s labs.
“The other RealPlayer flaws could be triggered by malicious code inserted into MP3, AVI, (audio video interleaved) or RM (real media) files, and affect only the Windows version of RealPlayer, according to an advisory issued by RealNetworks.”
How many people actually use RealPlayer or RealText on OS X?
That’s going to hurt real bad in the Windows world. Ouch… that’s gonna hurt… especially when the files start hitting the P2P networks.
Hi all,
IMHO this is a bad decision on the part of the Court. Here’s my reasoning:
(1) Apple, Sony, and others are in the movie/music business.
(2) The same companies are also in the electronics business. Are you telling me that Sony no longer wants me to buy their VHS’, VCR’s, or DVR’s… That’s utter nonsense. Does Apple want me to buy a less expensive, smaller capacity iPod because I can’t afford 20,000 songs or whatever… again utter nonsense.
(3) A lot of the people who use P2P are willing to pay for a quality product but are not willing to dish out their hard earned cash for the stuff that is put out today. A prime example is the DVD set of Star Wars Eps. 4-6. I had to download the 97 editions from Limewire because of all the changes that George Lucas made to the movies on the DVD’s.
(4) Sometimes there is no other way to get the material. Two examples… Before they came out on DVD, some people did not have access to Star Trek: Enterprise episodes; UPN does not yet exist in all markets. If one is a Star Trek fan, how else is he/she supposed to gain access to the episodes? Also, there are a lot of old phonographs that contain material that is still copywritten, but is not available on CD.
I could go on forever. But, I need to make sure that my 5000-song library, half of which I bought with my own money, is backed up onto DVD’s.
Regards,
newmsubob
newmsubob – get a life!
You want EP VI – VI, ahhhh BUY THE DVDs!
You want to watch all those TV shows, I guess you have to wait till they are played on TV? When the DVD’s come out buy them.
Just because studios haven’t made those shows available for your pampered on-demand lifestyle doesn’t give the public free right to pirate!
Get a girlfriend theif!
You have to be an idiot to not see the fundamental problem with the ‘free information’ idea. It shares the same problem as communism (as I understand it) where everyone pulls their own weight and in return everyone shares in the common good that everones’ collective efforts will provide. A nice clean world where everone gets along as we race happily toward utopia and world peace.
The problem is that we are a long way from any of that actually happening. I’d say about 40% of the population will not pull their weight. The concept that the needs of society outweight the needs of the information descoveror has some merit, but saying that commercial music or movies falls in the same catagory as ‘information’ is a stretch. It’s entertainment, and it also a business. It’s not valuable information (for the most part) and it’s not for charity. It’s someones investment that they have made with the plan of getting a return.
If this concept could work, then the ‘Buy American’ campaign would have all of us in America buying only product made in America. After all, wouldn’t that solve our trade deficit, stop outsourcing and put Wal-Mart out of business (which could only help America’s economy).
Odd Rock,
Just wait a second… You’re making a lot of assumptions here:
I explained the problem with Eps. 4-6. I’ve read the reviews and they have been ruined by all of the changes that Mr. Lucas made. Also, at one time, I PURCHASED (or was given as a gift) both the THX and 97 editions on VHS. I got rid of them in anticipation of the DVD’s (my mistake). So in a sense, I already own these downloads. If I should be paying anyone, it is the person/people who digitized these movies so that I can watch them on my laptop.
I don’t need to be lectured by you about the Star Trek episodes. I have spent almost $1000.00 on Star Trek DVD’s so far and will spend at least that much to complete my collection. When I first went out of state for college, neither UPN nor CBS was airing Star Trek: Enterprise in that market. The university blocked p2p ports. The solution was that my parents had to spend their hard earned time and money to record the episodes at their home and ship VHS’ to me. BTW, I’d have had no problems waiting to watch the episodes during the summer if all of them were actually rerun during the “off-season”. Too bad that UPN doesn’t care about its viewers.
I’m not a thief… Oh, one more thing… I’ve been going out with the same wonderful girl for 6 years!!!
Regards,
newmsubob
newsmsubob,
I don’t know what univeristy you attend, or what world you come from, but your logic is just totally flawed about what you do and don’t have a right to.
Also, at one time, I PURCHASED (or was given as a gift) print of the Mona Lisa, but got rid of it in anticipation of the real thing (my mistake). So in a sense, I already own Mr. da Vinci’s work of art.
I’m afraid not, my friend.
newsmsubob
i have heard better justifications regarding p2p use from 12 year olds. What do you do at university, wash the dishes ????.
Yes, i used to own a die cast model of a ferrari, but got rid of it in anticipation of the real thing (my mistake). Need to dash, got to phone ferrari and ask wher my new car is.
You are pirate/theif, oh and dont tell anyone you use a Mac, you should be ashamed of yourself. However you don’t sound intellegent enough to have worked that out.
H
” If I should be paying anyone, it is the person/people who digitized these movies so that I can watch them on my laptop.”
– newmsubob
Well, according to your logic, if you buy stolen goods out of the back of a truck, it’s legal. You just said it’s OK to pay the thief for their time in stealing the goods. Too bad about the owner, huh?
I bought a copy of whatever but lost it, therefore I’m entitled to a free replacement.
What?
How long did we have to wait for Schindler’s List to come out on DVD????? A bloody long time!!! But we waited patiently, so why cant you wait for the Enterprise episodes to come out on DVD!!! whats the rush??? Or do you have to watch them over and over again as soon as possible to satisfy your Trekkie needs????
MW “chief” as in “oh chief o’brian i love you, i cant get enough of you!!!”
Just for the record:
“theif” is actually spelled: thief
you remember — “i” before “e” except after “c”
so those “you don’t sound intellegent enough . . . ” cracks don’t ring so loudly.
so justified,
you never spelt anything wrong,
What do you do for a living, ??? TEACHERS PET, or are just a full time dickhead who wants to be the spelling police
H
you wrote: “The solution was that my parents had to spend their hard earned time and money to record the episodes at their home and ship VHS’ to me.”
and who paid for your college education? I hope your parents hard earned money for star trek episodes wasn’t more valuable than your degree. or did you pay for your own college education?
you’re sense of entitlement is rather sad. you’re argument comes across as a spoiled child.
there’s more to life than some episodes of star trek.
grow up.
Hugo,
Buzz off, kid. It’s obvious from your posts that you just like to type mean things.
“What do you do at university, wash the dishes ????”
“You are pirate/theif . . . “
“you should be ashamed of yourself.”
“you don’t sound intellegent enough to have worked that out.”
“are just a full time dickhead . . . “
You’re a child, and you make no points.
justified
and pointing out minor spelling mistakes makes you grown up.
If someone posts stupid comments justifing their theft habits, i think they leave themselves wide open to comments. However you, you just butt into other peoples discussions with your sarcastic comments on other peoples spelling mistakes. Thats also very grown up, well i suppose you need to be grown up to be in the spelling police.
Hi all,
Alright… most of you obviously think that my reasoning is flawed… let me try to understand yours.
You’re saying that “my mistake” means that I should purchase the VHS’ again?
Let’s say that I still owned Star Wars on VHS. Would I be entitled to transfer my personal copy of Star Wars onto my laptop? *Now any of you who have ever dubbed a single audio or videotape need to be careful here… I say that it would be my right as a legal end-user to do that. It would not be my right to sell copies of that digitization for my own profit.
BTW, I can see the Court’s point regarding making money off copywritten materials. Indeed, I agree with the contention that it is wrong to make money from another person’s work. That is just one of the many reasons that I don’t use Limewire Pro.
I must also agree with those who have advocated against name calling on this thread. I have had the good manners to agree to disagree with most of you… without resorting to name-calling.
Regards,
newmsubob
you have the right to digitize and make copies of anything that you own outright for your own use. but you cannot digitize copyrighted material for resale or to be used illegally (distributed on a p2p). you can even make a mixtape, or mixed cd, to give to a friend, but you cannot do so with anything taken from a p2p service as you didn’t pay for the content. this doesnt’ mean that technology doesn’t allow you to do so, obviously it does; and you do point this out in your post.
Ha! newmsubob is a consumer bot. Lucas forced him to steal because he put out variants of three movies. He believes he owns copyrighted material because he purchased them once in the past. And he was forced to want to steal Star Trek Enterprise episodes because he couldn’t get the show on TV in his market. Must buy! Must consume! If can’t, must steal!
The entertainment industry loves you newmsubob despite your flawed sense of entitlement.
I agree with both sides. P2P is going out of control… and since the music and video companies never embraced this, they reject it. Same thing with CD’s when they came out. If they want to make things so difficult for people to share files, try to block all of the non- P2P networks that are going to be doing this for years to come. They want control, and thats good… for a while, then they want it to become law, then the money to control it. Its written on the wall. I think its just as useless as keeping the “do not remove” tag on the couch. I am going to be damned if I have to go back into my 5 years of music and expect to show a reciept for each one. Good luck to the New generation of music dwellers. Your going to need it.
newmsubob,
You surely would be entitled to transfer “your” personal copy of Star Wars onto your laptop.
And how does the answer to your question relate in the least little bit to you obtaining an illegal copy off a P2P network?
And of course “your mistake” means that you should purchase the VHS again, otherwise you should be able to walk down the street to your local video store and “take” one off the shelf. Because, that’s what in fact you are doiong.
I see today was a very slow news day.
newmsubob–Let me put this bluntly. You are an effing thief, and any of your whiny excuses are just that…excuses. Intellectual property is property, no different than a car, a house, or my computer. You steal any of my property, you will be caught, you will be arrested, you will be tried, and you will be convicted of a felony. Then you will go to a prison, where Bubba will be using you as his personal girlfriend.
I have no sympathy for your pathetic excuses. I hope you continue doing your illegal deeds, and when the FBI or local police show up at your front door, be warned that your dad is not going to be able to save your ass.
Face it punk. YOU are a thief.
Oh by the way newmsubob the punk thief. I paid for my own way through college. I paid for my own way through grad school. And I spent several years in the US Navy serving my country to pay back 4 years in Medical School. I don’t commit crimes, because first, I like my medical license and security clearance to stay active. Also, because I have morals and ethics, which apparently your amoral and unethical mind does not understand. And finally, I’m not a communist, so I believe if someone creates a work, whether building my house or making a DVD, they own it so that they can create an income for themselves, their company and their employees. You’re stealing from them. Sure, George Lucas is not going to starve if you steal his video. But maybe enough of you punks do it, he needs to fire a few people, not hire a college grad or two, or quits selling DVD’s period.
I hope you NEVER show up in my office looking for a job, because I would hire you…as someone who cleans the toilet.
You’re a jerk.
Hi all,
Maybe I’m spoiled. Maybe some of you are a little too self-righteous. Who knows? Once more unto the breach, dear friends…
“You surely would be entitled to transfer ‘your’ personal copy of Star Wars onto your laptop. And how does the answer to your question relate in the least little bit to you obtaining an illegal copy off a P2P network?”
Let’s look at this from a software licensing prospective to see how it relates. I own a legal and paid-for copy of Microsoft Office 2004 for Mac. Pretend that my copy of the optical media is pulverized in a tragic accident of some kind. Now, pretend that my friend owns Office 2004 for Mac also. Is it wrong to use HIS optical media along with MY Certificate of Authenticity if I ever need to reinstall the darn program??? Of course it is not wrong! I paid for the dang program in the form of a license. As long as I don’t have to STEAL another person’s media to use with my license, I am not doing anything wrong, IMHO. I view the p2p issue in this fashion. Maybe that’s flawed… but I view it that way nonetheless.
Lastly, I think that we should discuss “black and white”. If I were to suggest that it is wrong to kill, even occasionally, you might say that I am an upstanding citizen. HOWEVER, if I had an opportunity to kill Hitler during WWII and end the war, would killing still be wrong???
I’m not comparing the p2p debate to Hitler’s significance in history… just using it to illustrate that sometime right and wrong can be gray, not white or black.
Regards,
newmsubob
Just thinking out loud: Content providers (e.g. record labels) or their distributors (e.g. iTunes) need to figure out how to provide unique value people will pay for.
It is not clear to me why any consumer of music would have a real interest in “owning” a digital song. A physical vinyl record or CD with a booklet etc., OK. I think we all want our personal library of music, play it at any time, anywhere, but do we really need to “own” the song? I bet many consumers would gladly pay a monthly fee to a company like Apple, for providing the content and software to browse content, and for storing a personal library of music. But, the bottom line is that it has to provide more value than file sharing.
The problem is even more interesting when it comes to a $50 movie. I doubt many people want to “own” a digital version of it, when you can either download it for free (OK, it’s illegal), or rent it for a few bucks. So, Apple, provide all your content for a flat monthly fee – there’s no way around it anyway.
Hey newmsubob, got any F Troop episodes from any of those P2P sites?
Seems the studio won’t touch DVD’s because the show was too politically incorrect!
So all you people who brought music or movies on your computer. You people don’t have not one song or movie on your computer that you ever ever ever download without paying is hard to believe. Look everybody use P2P at one time or another. So if they want to download for free, it up to them. But don’t throw stones when you yourself live in a glass house.
newmsubob–wrong bub. This is not grey, only in your pathetic, IQ 81 brain. You’re a thief, and only you think it’s a grey issue. It is, just stealing, and your rationalization is what punks your age do all the time…rationalize.
And as for Hitler, WTF???? Did you go online to http://www.ethics.com to find some stupid ass comparison to your thievery??? Hitler killed untold millions of people. You’re stealing!
So, now you’ve proven you’re a thief and a complete idiot. My God, I hope the next generation doesn’t rely upon you for anything but possibly a commission in some dope-selling gang somewhere.
ihatedell…every single downloaded song, movie or other piece of intellectual property on all three of my Macs are either paid for or are from the public domain (as clearly stated in the license for that particular piece of art).
AND, I would dare say every computer in my corporation is the same, mainly because I am the CEO, and I’ve made it very clear that when an IT person scans a hard drive, they will be fired with cause if any are found.
In addition, all of my friends do not download songs, and have taken computers from their kids who have. They have erased hard discs of their kids who steal music. My daughter has an iPod and iMac, and she has a $50/month iTunes budget. She NEVER shares or downloads music (since her inheritance and trust fund depends on me, she’s pretty careful).
newmsubob,
You said:
“Also, at one time, I PURCHASED (or was given as a gift) both the THX and 97 editions on VHS. I got rid of them in anticipation of the DVD’s (my mistake).”
When you disposed of the tapes, you disposed of your right to use them.
You also said:
“Sometimes there is no other way to get the material. Two examples… Before they came out on DVD, some people did not have access to Star Trek: Enterprise episodes; UPN does not yet exist in all markets. If one is a Star Trek fan, how else is he/she supposed to gain access to the episodes?”
Well, you don’t copy them illegally off the p2p networks. Just because they aren’t available on your medium of choice, doesn’t give you free license to copy them off the p2p networks.
And you said:
“Also, there are a lot of old phonographs that contain material that is still copywritten, but is not available on CD.”
Copyright law allows you to make a copy for personal use as long as you own the original. The key here is owning the original.
So, you can argue all you want about not having done anything wrong, but you use your own personal examples to counter your claims. The one example that I don’t think anyone will quibble about is having an Office 2004 license that you paid for with defective media and using another’s good disk to install it.
Man, lots of self-rightousness and venom on this topic.
I just hope those with extreme sensibilities about P2P, etc. have never borrowed a CD or Video for listening or viewing without paying the creator or distributor some sort of viewing or listening fee, because in its essence, that could be considered unauthorized viewing or listening, or, again, theft.
OK, OnlyMacs
So you are a CEO. That make you above everybody. Your kids don’t share CD ‘s with their friends and put on their computers, if so they are stealing, cause that the same as P2P, but not over the internet. they are swapping CD’s between themselves and one of them is not paying for it. So the artist or them company not making money off that person too. And the the people that work for you the same. So if brought in a CD to work and put it on my computer and a partner who work next to me put my CD on his computer too can get fired in your company. That sad, that really sad. that what wrong with companys today. Worried about what his or she have on a computer and not looking at their work and paying for a job well done. But your pay go up every year and theirs stay the same for what 2 or 3 or maybe 4 years before they beg for that little money you call a paycheck. It must be nice to live in that big old house and drive that nice car and your kids live that nice to have a $50 a month of ITune. I LOVE AMERICA. You work real hard don’t you. I mean you come home after a hard days work and kiss your wife and kids and say that magic word WHAT TO EAT Oh sorry What for dinner Dear. You call your little buddies on the phone and joke about how was your golf game and that new BMW running . But you don’t have not one song on your computer that you yourself download without paying. LAIR LAIR LAIR LAIR pants on fire HA HA HA HA
justified,
Hmmm….self-rightousness? Surely you must have meant something else. People are only trying to highlight to newmsubob the falacies in his rationalization for taking something that isn’t his to take.
I still haven’t seen anyone step up and support his explanation… unless you want to be the first.
Hi all,
I urge all of you to take a look at the MacWorld/MacCentral boards and see how very civil they are keeping it over there. Many of them disagree with one another, but nasty insults have yet to fly over there.
Concerning my Hitler example, I did not get that from the Internet. I first got the idea from one of my professors. This professor teaches philosophy and ethics at the university where I am seeking my degree (not the university that I mentioned previously). He also teaches ethics etc. at one of the United States’ military academies (Air Force Academy, Annapolis, WestPoint, etcetera). In other words he is a qualified teacher of ethics and philosophy.
Back to the topic at hand, I understand and respect your opinions on the p2p debate. And because of this ruling by the Court, I probably won’t have any choice but to go with the iTunes music store soon anyway. Just remember that your precious iTunes music store, with its limited but admittedly growing non-pop selection, owes its existence to the original Napster.
Finally, to the person who threatened not to give me a job… My email address is similar enough to newmsubob that you’ll be able to identify me if I ever give you me resume. Fell free to throw me out on my ear if you so desire.
Regards,
newmsubob
Dell, I’m not going to reply to most of what you’ve said. However, if someone’s ethics includes stealing property while on the company computer, how am I to trust their ethics when they are responsible for manufacturing and selling devices that are critical to ones life. Sorry, but in my career in the Navy, in medicine and in business is that a person’s ethics are the same throughout their life. I run a company that depends on intellectual property not being stolen by competitors, by other countries, or by the government. I tend to be highly protective of that.
I drive a Honda Ridgeline truck, if you must know. I’m not married. I hate golf. I spend much of my free time providing free medical care and cycling, so I’m not too interested in spending time stealing music. Oh yeah, I’m in the USNR, so I have to give time the USA. And yes, there isn’t a single song on my computer that I haven’t purchased from iTunes or ripped from my own CD collection.
Lastly, I don’t think I’m above anybody. Well, I don’t like criminals all that much.
IHateDell,
You wouldn’t be bitter or hostile against people who believe in capitalism or those of us who have worked very hard to become successful, would you?
Nah…… I didn’t think so.
newmsubob,
One last suggestion… in the future, try to stay away from using anything dealing with Hitler/Nazism as a defence in an argument.
You’re WAY past the point of losing credibility when you have to resort to that.
Again, that was just a suggestion.
I absolutely cannot support newmsubob’s position on the grounds that illegal downloads are, well, illegal. And that IS stealing.
I also will not advocate ripping into newmsubob or anyone as an “effin” thief based on self-molded ethics. P2P file sharing is theft. By the same rules, borrowing media for viewing or listening or copying without paying some sort of fee is theft. It just doesn’t require a computer or network, so many don’t see it as such. But in principle, it is the same.
I simply think we can make our points about how P2P file swapping damages the industry without being so severe. Unless one has an absolutely spotless code of ethics, the venom is completely unnecessary.
Hi all,
Can we PLEASE stop insulting others in this thread?!?
We don’t have to agree on the p2p issue. We, regardless of which side we’re taking in this debate, should stop the childish name-calling.
Regards,
newmsubob
OnlyMacs,
Well IF that person is on the computer downloading music or movies while at work, He or She is really not working at all. So YOUR FIRED as if Mr. Trump would say. But you said you don’t have not one song from download or your CD’s collection. WOW now that hard to believe. Not from your very own collection. Even Apple show how to download your own CD’s in to ITune. That not stealing. that yours.
BUT you said all your friends do not download songs and taken computers from their kids who have. How do you know what songs that your friends and you know to erase. What if they download a CD or just a song from a CD that your kids have or borrow from a friend and you and your left field gang of the right just take and erase. WOW WOW I just love some people way.And I don’t care way you drive, that was a example of a life of a CEO. Everybody different .And you are not married that good too.All I’m saying is that everybody have done it at one time or another. If they the ones want to do it so be it. But this is a free country at one time. Now everybody wants to know what the next person is doing. Who cares ? Life is to short And I hate golf too
Sizewell,
I’m not bitter. I just hate when people tried to be so right about what they do in their life. If you see 5 dollars on the ground . Would pick it up and ask who 5 is this. NO And for CEO I don’t care for them either.At one time they might have put in a hard day work. But do they. Do they stay late night and work next to that person who only making min wage or 10 or 20 or what that person make ahour. NO
Do that CEO come in to work and say what up Jim how the family. OH NO. Think about what you are saying. CEO don’t really talk to to bottomfeeders. They the ones who really get the work. Really think about it.
Hi all,
This will be my last post of the day on this thread:
Here is the issue that is at the heart of our discussion. Does something being illegal also make it wrong? Let me give you a NON-HITLER example that should still be drastic enough to communicate the purpose of my question.
What if an 18 year-old guy and a 17-year old girl are dating and then they both decide that they want to become lovers. The girl gets pregnant, the guy gets a job in anticipation of having a child to support, but the girl’s parents become angry at the situation. The girl’s parents sue the guy and get him convicted of rape, a felony that will mark him for life as a criminal. This type of situation DOES happen in the U.S. on a semi-regular basis. Just use google to look it up if you don’t believe me.
Now, is the guy a bad person… he did plan on supporting his kid after all? Maybe he isn’t the brightest bulb in the box, but he is not a criminal. The law says that he is but my common sense says that he isn’t.
Just something to ponder…
Regards,
newmsubob
OK. This thread has reached into the twilight zone.
@newmsubob:
Ah, common sense – the great oxymoron of our time! If common sense were really that common, then the law and social morés would always be in step with common consensus.
However, common sense and the law are often at odds – the law (well, American law at least) enshrines the “right to bear arms” (albeit predicated on the need to maintain the security of a free state), but common sense says that when [B]30,000[/B] gun-related deaths happen every year, maybe it shouldn’t be legal to sell assault weapons to all and sundry. That’s what many police chiefs think, that’s what a lot of the American public think, but – for reasons passing understanding – you can now buy assault weapons again: So much for common sense!
Sadly, your example of the “star-crossed” lovers is still flawed in any number of ways: the law is the law, no matter how badly framed or irrational. And your opportunities to confront bad laws and those who support them manifest themselves at the ballot box.
I wonder if everyone in this forum sticks to the posted speed limit.
Everyone just calm down, take a deep breath, and read what people who were ACTUALLY actively involved in the case have to say:
http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/archives/003749.php
newmsubob, in the future, just stick to the facts and avoid any “what if” corollaries which contain the words “Hitler” or “Star Trek” (unless you’re on a Nazi or Star Trek site, of course), and you’ll be taken far more seriously on the internet. I think I see what you’re saying. I don’t necessarily agree with your line of reasoning (it’s just one weak premise after another, none of which defend your argument), but I understand where you’re intent lies.
[And look, everyone, I didn’t have to resort to ad hominem attacks or provide my truly admirable resumé and/or W-2 to show how much better I am than newmsubob. All I had to do is disagree, and tell him what I disagree with, in particular.
You certainly can tell when the kids get out of school around here…]
The cooler heads will (hopefully) prevail. Upon a critical reading of Souter’s opinion for the court, most people in the know basically believe he’s saying that Grokster could be found liable for its marketing practices, not for the underlying technology. The Supremes seem to be focusing solely on the inducement factor and studiously ignoring Betamax and vicarious liability. They’re treading on thin ice with inducement, but not giving an opinion on the extreme positions gives P2P proponents something to work with. This case was a draw. With a slight edge toward Hollywood.
This case is more than P2P; this is about Hollywood wanting the power to dictate how and when an innovative product is made available to consumers. Surely all of the “free market” folks out there can see how this runs counter to their argument that the studios and labels are merely protecting what is theirs, since apparently their true concern is becoming the arbiter of what is OURS. Believing in a free market economy does not equal being a shill for multimedia conglomerates.
Smarter people than ANYONE on this board are discussing this case in other corners of the internet. Getting out of the MDN ghetto and seeing what others think might do some of you some good. At least it might teach you civility and humility…
I think this ruling is fair. I personally don’t like it when large companies win things like this, because historically they abuse the power. It seems we are headed to a future where inovation is held back, so companies can nickle & dime the consumer for every little thing they do.
But you know what, we do have a choice. The choice is simple. Choose not to purchase items/services from the company you have a problem with. You might think you are just one person and you can’t make a difference, but you also need to spread the word. I don’t shop at Wal-Mart, I don’t purchase music CD’s that have encryption, I didn’t eat at a Jack-In-The-Box for 4 years cause I couldn’t stand there stupid jingle (before jack came back), and I try to look at lables to see where things are manufactured. If it’s china I usually avoid it. I can go without these items. It might not make my lifestyle any easier, but at least I feel I’m doing something about it.
As for you newmsubob, if you choose not to purchase your Star Wars, (which I would almost bet he’s going to release the original versions on DVD in the future at some point, why do it now when he can milk you to buy the others), choose to never watch Star Trek, and whatever else you mentioned, you might not get your “fix”, but you can at least start supporting some individuals/companies that have better consumer-friendly tactics and hopefully others will get the message and follow suit. After awhile the bad companies will either disappear or change their tactics to survive. They play the odds that the average consumer will follow the herd. So don’t be an average consumer.
It’s not the quickest or easiest rode to take, but sometimes you can be surprised by taking the rode less traveled.
V
Hi all,
[prepare for sarcasm… not insults]
Okay then… all of your arguments have convinced me (lol). I guess I’ll get rid of my “SeaQuest DSV” downloads seeing how as of today you can’t legally get the episodes on VHS, DVD, or a tuna sandwich. Oh yeah, maybe I’ll also delete that “Weakest Link” episode I have on my hard drive… goodness knows that NBC or whomever is just jumping at the chance to put that on DVD! I guess that I’ll also get rid of my latest music download, an unauthorized reproduction of the Apple “Switch” campaign’s theme song. I’m sure that I can find a CD of that song on Amazon.com somewhere. And all of those old computer games that are on my Windows box, I’m sure that the term “abandonware” isn’t supposed to signify anything in particular…
[sarcasm over…]
I think you’ve probably got the picture of what my “illegal” collection looks like.
As for my DVD collection, I’d say that I probably spend about US$1500.00+ per year supporting the MPAA via my purchases off of Amazon.com and elsewhere. I also support independent music/movies by purchasing their outrageously overpriced CD’s/DVD’s. So, don’t try and tell me that I fail to support the artists or that I’m not contributing my fair share to the cause. Considering how low my income level is as a college student, I’d call my expenditures more than fair to the industry. In short, I have tried to achieve a balance.
Your criticisms of my examples aside, I have one more for you – this is a true story. Several years ago, I submitted an article to a local newspaper; they published it word-for-word. Now, I was using Google some years later to research my family history when I came upon this article on the Internet. FYI, the newspaper that originally published the article did not have a website at that time. The website in question credited me as the author and hadn’t altered the content of the article, so what purpose would have been served in calling them up and saying, “why didn’t you seek my permission…?” Indeed, in a twist of irony, I had long ago trashed the file containing the article – so I copy and pasted an unauthorized copy of my own article to my computer! If I can live with it, why can’t the artists… or all of you?
Regards,
newmsubob
Great, more litigation, just what America needs. America’s legal and judicial system is a self-fulfilling prophecy – Kinda reminds me of IT managers who keep the company on windows to assure they retain (and expand) their power and staff count. They all try and spin it that there really isn’t a choice – and the majority of people just go along with it.
newmsubob,
Okay, I thought I didn’t have to make any more suggestions until I read your last post.
I think you should also stop using examples, either based on hypothetical or real-life experience. I haven’t seen how a single one of your examples has helped your cause.
When you “submitted” the article to the newspaper you agreed for them to publish it word-for-word and give you credit. How can you possibly feel that they would need your permission to use it again under that same agreement? Did you have a single use agreement with the paper? Please correct me if my assumption is not valid.
Also, as the author of the piece, you making a copy of it regardless of it’s form is not unauthorized. Unless you transfered all your rights dealing with the article to the newspaper. Again, please correct me if I’ve made a bad assumption.
I wish the thieving music companies a lot of luck enforcing the law on each and every PC where P2P is installed. And in the Cayman Islands or Slovakia.
One big fat ‘FUCK YOU’ to those dickheads.
Unless you price a product in the range that a consumer is willing to pay for it, you will not sell your product. If the consumer has another way of getting it, he will get it through those means.
Stop overpricing CDs, MP3s and all other media. THAT and nothing else will stop ‘piracy’.
The paradigm has shifted. Once you purchase a digitized piece of video or music, you need not lose it. In the past, you could expect your analog media to degrade or break; now, you can make backup copies with only trivial loss of quality. The entertainment industry should change to reflect the new paradigm and the p2p phenomenon that makes available anything and everything to anyone and everyone.
There is a successful model for the future: the iTMS. The internet delivery system, by cutting out middlemen, physical media, packaging, transportation, etc., allows the creative industries to slash retail prices without affecting their revenue. That movie you don’t intend to pay retail for (cinema or dvd) might be a buy at, say, five bucks. If that’s the case, their revenue might even increase!
The problem is, of course, “change” or the fear of change. Change can be delayed but rarely stopped. I wonder what the industry will look like in 25 years. Maybe the Oscars will come in black turtlenecks.
Sizewell,
Sorry, I was a little tired when I wrote that example; maybe I didn’t explain myself clearly… the article was originally published in a local newspaper, which did not have any sort of web presence whatsoever at the time.
Okay… then a totally unrelated publication, which did have an Internet presence, put my article on their website. I doubt that this unrelated publication bothered to contact my local newspaper to ask their permission; I certainly wasn’t contacted.
The point I was trying to make is that it’s the content of the article staying intact that concerns me. As long as my ideas stay intact, I could really give a fig who uses it.
Regards,
newmsubob
P.S. @ So What… You’re really not helping “our” cause by using dirty words to make your arguments.
newmsubob,
I don’t know what points you are trying to make. But the personal examples you state for copying others’ materials show you just don’t understand the law. Your example of your newpaper article indicates as such, too. I’m sure this “unrelated publication” didn’t just steal your article from the local newspaper – particularly one that didn’t have web site at the time. Think about it – how would your article exchange hands between publications if it weren’t online?
Just because you don’t give a fig who uses your material, doesn’t mean somebody who makes a living from their material doesn’t give a hoot about their own, either.
If you truly think downloading off of p2p networks is OK, then I suggest you send your name and address to the RIAA and let them know of your activities. You can later explain yourself in court after the RIAA serves you. I’m sure you’ll have no problems in explaining your position.
Hi,
“I’m sure this “unrelated publication” didn’t just steal your article from the local newspaper – particularly one that didn’t have web site at the time.”
The website where I was surprised to find my article was that of a religious newspaper, a statewide publication that also had a website. The article was about a mission trip that I had taken with some members of a local church. I imagine that somebody at the church probably saw the article in the local newspaper and forwarded it onto the religious newspaper. I never did find out exactly what happened.
Many of you have mentioned the people who make a living from the material that they create. In my own experience, there are three types of visual artists… yes images are transferred via p2p just as is almost any other form of digitized media:
(1) There are the ones who are insulted when asked if a picture can be taken of their work. They promptly refuse to let you take photos of their work, period.
(2) There are the ones who allow photos, but simply ask that you give them the courtesy of mentioning their names when showing the photographs to other people.
(3) There are those who say, “take all the pictures you like… maybe my work will inspire somebody!”
While I like to think that I’m sort in between #’s 2 and 3, I can appreciate the perspectives of those who find themselves in the #1 category. I just tend to think that the “Baskin-Robbins” approach of giving free-taste samples is a much more effective way to run any business than is the alternative “you had better make a good guess because your stuck with your flavor” way of doing things. Giving free samples has certainly worked for me in my many ventures!
Regards,
newmsubob
P.S. This will be my last entry in this thread. So, you may feel free to bash me as much as you like :~)
newmsubob, I am not trying to argue a cause, I’m venting my feelings towards the money-grabbing record companies, whilst stating the obvious.
If I have a cause, it would be:
Up with piracy! Not a penny for those swines!