Why Apple won’t be hurt by denouncing President Trump’s decision to rescind federal transgender bathroom guidelines

“Apple is leading the charge of Silicon Valley firms who have spoken out against President Donald Trump’s decision to roll back federal protections for transgender students in public schools,” Annie Palmer writes for TheStreet. “The tech giant denounced the change in a statement late Wednesday and was later joined by Microsoft and Uber, who both issued dissenting statements in support of the LGBT community.”

“It’s no surprise that Apple was quick to rally against Trump’s decision,” Palmer writes. “Apple also advocated for Congress to support the Employment Nondiscrimination Act in 2013, in addition to the LGBT Equality Act passed in 2015. Apple and other leading technology companies headquartered in California have increasingly taken on the role of advocates for social justice issues, often because the federal or state actions threaten many of their employees’ livelihoods.”

“And for Apple’s CEO, the issue of LGBT rights perhaps strikes an even more personal chord. Cook came out as gay in a 2014 editorial for Bloomberg,” Palmer writes. “But like Facebook, whose CEO Mark Zuckerberg last week wrote a 6,000-word manifesto on the company’s role in preventing fake news, terrorism and isolationism, these statements are an insignificant threat to their multi-billion dollar bottom lines… ‘It has no impact,’ Tim Bajarin, president of technology research firm Creative Strategies, said. ‘We’ve studied this whole issue on whether people buy based on decisions made by management as opposed to products. It doesn’t mean there won’t be people who dislike what CEOs are saying, but they don’t buy Apple based on its position. They buy because of the product, and whether it does what it needs to do for them.'”

Read more in the full article here.

MacDailyNews Take: We can’t wait to see Apple’s next-gen iPads! Can you?

SEE ALSO:
Apple condemns President Trump’s decision to rescind federal transgender bathroom guidelines – February 23, 2017
Tim Cook’s Apple: More socially responsible, less visionary – August 24, 2016
Apple’s politics may be hurting its brand – June 29, 2016
Apple objects to North Carolina law company says discriminates against LGBTs – March 28, 2016
Apple backs U.S. bill banning lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender discrimination – July 23, 2015

79 Comments

    1. I am quite disgusted with Tim Cook becoming a full fledged social justice warrior, myself. I don’t think this helps his company at all, but I agree the number of people upset probably is offset by the people that love it. Personally I think companies should build products and not be political entities, and I am very unhappy that Tim Cook has chosen to do this with the company I love.

      1. Social Justice: The practice of beating down a successful society with absurdity, hypocrisy, fear and hate to the point where they will begrudgingly accept socialism if not outright ask for it, just so you’ll shut the *&^% up. Ultimate outcome? See: Venezuela, Cuba, North Korea

        1. Once again a succinct and logical posting Thelonious! The snowflakes are crying as they melt. Have they no notion of the his(her?)story that brought about our freedoms from serfdom, bestial kings and emperors and the like? They want to throw thousands of years of accumulated wisdom and safeguards just so they can have “change” — but in truth it will brings them chains!

    1. Yes. For Silicon Valley and Apple’s Tim Cook, it’s all about H-1B visas and cheap labor.

      American companies and their shareholders, in general, want skilled labor as CHEAPLY as possible. That’s a main reason why Tim Cook, Apple and other tech firms backed the loser Clinton – they wanted unlimited H-1Bs to continue, so they can pay Ajeet from India half what they’d have to pay Tom from Tulsa who can’t find a job after graduating from college and has to live in his parents basement because Apple got Ajeet from India to do it on the CHEAP.

      H1-B visas for skilled workers DO NOT EQUAL uneducated illegal aliens streaming across the southern border intent on cashing in on American taxpayer’s largesse while setting up shop in the domestic drug trade and/or other crimes (gangs, rape, robbery, etc.).

      Trump is for upholding the laws already on the books designed to protect our borders and our nation’s sovereignty.

      The Trump campaign’s policy:

      Increase prevailing wage for H-1Bs. We graduate two times more Americans with STEM degrees each year than find STEM jobs, yet as much as two-thirds of entry-level hiring for IT jobs is accomplished through the H-1B program. More than half of H-1B visas are issued for the program’s lowest allowable wage level, and more than eighty percent for its bottom two. Raising the prevailing wage paid to H-1Bs will force companies to give these coveted entry-level jobs to the existing domestic pool of unemployed native and immigrant workers in the U.S., instead of flying in cheaper workers from overseas. This will improve the number of black, Hispanic and female workers in Silicon Valley who have been passed over in favor of the H-1B program. Mark Zuckerberg’s personal Senator, Marco Rubio, has a bill to triple H-1Bs that would decimate women and minorities.

      Requirement to hire American workers first. Too many visas, like the H-1B, have no such requirement. In the year 2015, with 92 million Americans outside the workforce and incomes collapsing, we need companies to hire from the domestic pool of unemployed. Petitions for workers should be mailed to the unemployment office, not USCIS.

      End welfare abuse. Applicants for entry to the United States should be required to certify that they can pay for their own housing, healthcare and other needs before coming to the U.S.

      Jobs program for inner city youth. The J-1 visa jobs program for foreign youth will be terminated and replaced with a resume bank for inner city youth provided to all corporate subscribers to the J-1 visa program.

      Refugee program for American children. Increase standards for the admission of refugees and asylum-seekers to crack down on abuses. Use the monies saved on expensive refugee programs to help place American children without parents in safer homes and communities, and to improve community safety in high crime neighborhoods in the United States.

      Immigration moderation. Before any new green cards are issued to foreign workers abroad, there will be a pause where employers will have to hire from the domestic pool of unemployed immigrant and native workers. This will help reverse women’s plummeting workplace participation rate, grow wages, and allow record immigration levels to subside to more moderate historical averages.

      1. Not just Silicon Valley, ANY and EVERY company that’s doing software development. And, since software runs everything, that’s pretty much every company that wants to make a profit.

        Yes, this will hurt Silicon Valley BUT will also hurt all those mini-Silicon Valleys and “incubators” states have been trying to get going all over the country.

      1. Noticed that as well and glad you mentioned it.

        A new Libtard record! You are the King. 👑🏆😆

        Sad to say they actually believe manipulated star ratings mean something in life … 🙄💤

          1. Ah, the homophobes, snowflakes and pararnoids are out in full force today. Hide in your basements, the end is nigh. Most of you are worried you may be homosexual yourselves which is why you lash out so violently, dudes, just accept it and move on. We don’t mind and we don’t care.

  1. Actually, Apple’s share price declined after SJW Cook opened his mouth on yet another issue that really doesn’t pertain to his business.

    Note the lack of an “Apple hits all-time high” article today. AAPL is in the red.

    In other words, while Apple won’t be hurt if their 12 gender-confused employees can’t figure out which bathroom to use (hint: if you’ve got a dick, you belong in the men’s room), they actually may be hurt by a CEO intent on virtue signalling, not only in his name, but in the name of the entire company – on issues in which not every employee, or even a majority of employees may agree (certainly Apple’s muslim employees do not agree with Cook’s homosexuality or his promotion of “gay marriage,” to say nothing of this latest “transgendered” nonsense).

    Apple’s CEO Cook would do well to realize that not everyone agrees with his militant immoral bullshit.

    1. You are a fool if you are somehow connecting aapl’s $0.58 price drop today to Cook’s statements. If you are so offended by his statements, f-off these boards and buy a dell. Cook was Job’s 3rd hire in 1997 and he handed the company over to him not once but twice. Once while recuperating and then when death was upon him. Do you think Jobs didn’t know Cook? They probably spent more time with each other than with their families.
      aapl’s next milestone is an MV of $800,000,000,000. You think the Board is going to fire him because he offends your world view? Guess again.

    2. The Brutal Truth is that some folks who’ve “got a dick” actually ARE a… you get the idea.

      Sorry, not all people share your notions on “gender-confused employees.” Apple was in the forefront of giving its LGBT employees equal treatment long before Steve Jobs even got sick. I was present for a major confrontation between Apple and a Texas local government in 1993 that resulted in that community losing a major Apple facility. Standing up for the rights of its gay employees cost the company money, but even then they were committed to doing the right thing.

      Being able to recruit the best employees regardless of their sexual orientation is business-related, even if you think that only white non-Hispanic straight guys deserve to work in this country.

      Transgendered people aren’t the “latest nonsense.” They have been among us for a very long time, just like African-Americans who were forced to pass as white because they couldn’t make a decent living and escape persecution otherwise.

  2. It really bothers that Tim Cooks is getting all political. Why not just quit his job and go republican or democratic?
    I think he should be thinking what products needs to be upgrade or what could be the best next iDevice, not trying to get a bathroom for 0.00000001 of the population.
    A transgender person works in my office and we are not bother by her presence in our men’s bathroom, it is just a bathroom, also, many bathrooms are individual so anyone can go and make what ever they want in there.
    Apple should not be falling for political issues but for failed products (like the LG monitor) or long overdue products upgrades (like the Mac Pro).

    1. I’m not quite clear what you mean when you say a transgender woman, since she seems to be using men’s room. Was this person born with a penis of a vagina? If the latter, and the person is a transgender, it would mean that the person is now a man (which would explain him going to men’s room). If born a boy and now a woman, I can’t possibly imagine her voluntarily going to men’s room.

      1. Well Pedrag, she was born as a women and for me still a women who now looks like a men. But I really don’t care if a women who looks like a women or as a men also enters into the men’s bathroom.

        1. It seems like at least in your office, he can feel safe in the bathroom of his choice. Obviously, his presence might not be enough to educate ignorant people about the mental and physiological state of a transgender person, but that’s a reality well known to most of the people who come from some minority group and have to live in work in an environment dominated by a monolithic majority that looks and thinks the same way…

    1. All Trump is doing, is getting the Federals out of what is a states rights issue. It belongs to the state to avow or disavow
      this issue. I am sure California is all for this law.

      1. If that was true, black people would probably still have separate water fountains in the south. How are civil rights a states issue when states have proven that they will often NOT do the right thing unless forced?

        1. Stop trying to equate race issues with gender confusion, it’s insulting.

          No sane person should be defending the idea that a man with male anatomy (who thinks he is a woman) should be allowed to use the same bathroom as a little girl! Or the reverse of this.

          The only people defending this crap are those with their own set of mental issues, and millennials. In most cases these are the same people.

          Offended? You must be a millennial. Seek help.

          1. > Offended? You must be a millennial. Seek help

            Everything offends entitled millennials, they say everything and everyone in the world is against them, and they can’t help but lash out, broadcasting their immature angst on Twitter for all the world to see.

            Trump is obviously the ultimate millennial. He was a millennial before millennials were a thing. He’s the best millennial. /s

        2. Why is it insulting? It seems like a pretty good parallel to me.

          Most major American religious denominations divided during the 1850s because their members in the South had a genuine, sincerely held religious belief that black people were intended by God to serve as slaves for white people.

          That religious belief was shared by many in the North, including John Henry Hopkins, the Vermont clergyman who served as Presiding Bishop of the Episcopal Church at the end of the Civil War. These pious folks insisted that slavery was a local matter and that the Federal government should not be violating states’ rights to interfere with its free exercise. Certainly the government should not be violating the individual conscience of Christian slaveholders.

          Most of those who fought against Federal anti-lynching and integration laws from 1940-70 were Christians who had a sincere religious belief that God had intended the separation of the races. Defending “our Southern way of life” was a matter of states’ rights that should not be subject to Federal interference. Forcing private businesses to serve persons of color was a violation of their constitutional rights to freedom of religion, freedom of speech, and freedom of association.

          Our Constitution requires the Government to treat all religions equally. I’m not sure how the Administration can carve out an exception for people who have religious views that prevent them from serving LGBT folks without also allowing an exception for those who have strong religious views that require them to discriminate against women and racial minorities.

      2. A story we did not read in 1953 (taken word for word from an AP story today, with only the [bracketed] substitutions):

        Conservatives are praising the [Eisenhower] administration’s rollback of public school bathroom requirements for [colored] students, saying the move corrects a legal overreach by the [Truman] administration that is best left for states to decide.

        The [Truman] administration did not sufficiently explain its interpretation of that law, Attorney General [Herbert Brownell] said in a statement. “Congress, state legislatures, and local governments are in a position to adopt appropriate polities or laws addressing this issue.”

        “This is an issue best solved at the state and local issue,” [the Federal education chief] added. “Schools, communities and families can find —and in many cases have found — solutions that protect all students.”

        Conservative activists who saw it as [the Federal Government] meddling in local matters praised the change. [A state legislator] said he was pleased by the change but still intends to re-introduce a bill to force public school students to use bathrooms that correspond with their birth [race].

      3. Pure hypothetical to point out the inadequacy of a lack of a federal standard.

        Let’s say I work for Apple.

        Let’s say I was born male, but my entire psychological makeup has been, from a very early age and currently is, as female. Let’s say I’m 19 years old and have gone through total gender reassignment surgery. I take hormones regularly to support this. For all outward appearances I’m completely female. Anatomically I’m female, and I act accordingly.

        Let’s say there is absolutely zero federal standard supporting my choice and current physiology to use restrooms for females. States get to make it up on a state by state basis.

        Then let’s assume I work for Apple in a state that supports, by law or regulation, my ability to use the restroom of my chosen gender and subsequent gender reassignment. I go into the women’s restroom as a woman, and no one notices.

        Now let’s assume I get transferred by Apple to a state that *requires* by law or regulation that I use a restroom for the gender on my birth certificate (male). I’m transferred because Apple has moved my job. If I want to keep my job at Apple I must transfer to that state. I go into a public restroom and am, by law, required to use the men’s restroom. Does no one notice? Sure as hell virtually everyone notices! There is even a distinct chance that men in that restroom will take offense at me being in there. There is even a chance that some idiot is going to take it upon himself to physically and extremely forcefully “show” me that I shouldn’t be in the men’s restroom.

        So by Trump’s team’s rationale, I should have to worry about where I live in order to be safe in the public restrooms? I need to be extremely careful even on travel if I have to go through one of those states?

        Why can’t I feel safe in *EVERY* state? It is one country, isn’t it?

    2. Standing up for transgenderism is not standing up for human rights. In standard medical and psychological practice, a person who has a persistent, mistaken belief that is inconsistent with reality is not encouraged in his or her belief. For instance, an anorexic person is not encouraged to lose weight. He is not treated with liposuction; instead, he is encouraged to align his belief with reality – i.e., to see himself as he really is. Indeed, this approach is not just a good guide to sound medical practice. It is common sense.

      Johns Hopkins had the first sex change clinic in the US. It was closed a few years ago after they saw the results of this practice. A lot of their patients returned wanting to be changed back to the original sex. They saw lots of psychological problems including suicides. They closed the clinic a few years ago.

      1. Fake news.

        It took me all of ten seconds on the Internet to find several stories from last October describing how Johns Hopkins was going to RESUME doing gender reassignment surgery after a nearly 40-year hiatus.

        The 1979 halt in surgeries was the result of a couple of older faculty members (including the former psychiatrist-in-chief) who held views that were already outdated then in terms of current research. In 2017, their position is not supported by the overwhelming majority of their colleagues at Johns Hopkins itself, much less the larger medical and psychological community.

  3. I don’t want to weigh in on the rights or wrongs of the social issues Tim Cook is so passionate about,

    but I’ll like to say that I wish he would be JUST AS PASSIONATE about FIXING the whole host of issues and problems affecting Apple’s PRODUCTS. (note to flamers: Apple is NOT a social org like Greenpeace but a public listed COMMERCIAL company responsible to it’s consumers and shareholders ).

    Just a FEW of the pressing issues that seem to be ignored:

    the sorry state of Apple Cloud initiatives.

    Apple’s commanding stand in Education dropped to 10% marketshare with Chromebooks from zero to over 50% (and that’s stats from 2 years ago, it’s probably much worse now)

    4 years no update to certain Macs like the Mini and Pro. Many people have invested lots of money, some tens of thousands into an Apple centric pro eco system and now they are left hanging.
    Desktop PC GPUs are three times or more powerful than the Pro Cylinder and the new Touchbar MBP.

    Macs are the second largest hardware money maker at Apple , making a lot more than iPad, Watch, Beats etc. but we get near ZERO Mac marketing. ONE ad (the bulb ad) in the last few years. What gives? Meanwhile Apple PR is all over social issues with great urgency.

    simple problems like the Wifi issue taking months to fix with no Apple PR responding.

    iTunes, a mess as hub for iOS. Using it to manage a ‘pro’ iPad is weak (not to mention the non pro , poor file management iOS).

    They crippled then basically forgot iWork for years. With their resources Apple should have a suit that is on par with Google or Microsoft.

    The Apple TV , sorry mess from content to the useless REMOTE.

    etc etc.

    Steve Jobs is gone I understand but we can still remind ourselves his LASER FOCUS on PRODUCTS.

    Jobs did not even want to celebrate Apple’s 30th anniversary as it would be distraction on ‘future products’, likewise he didn’t want an ‘Apple product museum’ at Apple HQ but gave stuff away.

    Jobs didn’t want Apple to be heavily involved in charities (although Jobs did it privately) — apple only matching staff contributions so that managers DID NOT HAVE TO THINK about what charities or social issues to be concerned about. He just wanted them to focus on products.
    (like I said , Apple is a commercial enterprise and NOT a social org like the Kennedy Foundation, Greenpeace etc, which too many activists flaming me in the past seem to forget.

    today With Cook’s NEW PHILOSOPHY we can see Product focus being lost at Apple and SVPs indulging in their OWN personal ‘hobbies’ like ;
    Christmas Trees, Coffee Table books (specially milled paper etc), sponsoring fashion shows like the Met Gala, mini series like Planet of the Apps and ‘romp of Dr. Dre’s Life’, building furniture for charities, etc WHILE all the problems I listed above like macs not updated for years exist.

    If Apple managers are so passionate about these other activities (like talking about transgender bathrooms) then by all means QUIT and JOIN a SOCIAL org. and leave others more inline with Job’s product thinking take over.

    Nowadays Apple is reminding me too much of Xerox, Blackberry, Palm etc. where they had commanding lead in tech, R&D and frittered it away.
    No I’m not right now saying ‘Apple is Doomed’ but they need to get back to driving the product ship.

    1. to elaborate :

      — look at the all the long posts today . Even though some have good insights, think about it: if Apple Managers spent as much time agonizing over this and TEN THOUSAND OTHER social issues.
      Do people now get why Jobs didn’t want Apple to get into social quagmires (see my post above) But LASER FOCUS on PRODUCTS?

      I’m sure many Apple managers find it more entertaining AND EASIER to debate these things than fixing Apple TV for example….

      — At one time Xerox was standing on top of the world (I had friend who made millions as a Xerox sales rep). Xerox PARC had a lot of R&D money and happy engineers twiddling with experiments. But they had few new shipping products. One visit to PARC and seeing were doing and Jobs made the Mac GUI and shipped the world changing Mac. and made BILLIONS.

      Steve Jobs said ““Xerox could have owned the entire computer industry… could have been the IBM of the nineties… could have been the Microsoft of the nineties.” BUT WASN’T. Instead we have academics running courses on the Rise and fall of Xerox.

      years of Tim cook , tens of billions in R&D and we got two ‘big’ new products : both iPhone accessories : the Watch and the Airpods. That’s it. (re. above: Xerox “few new shipping products” ).

      When iPhone came out, Blackberry (Research in Motion Inc.) CEOs went out hunting for HOCKEY TEAMS TO BUY, not worried they said because they had such a commanding lead in tech. The stock has since gone down over 90%. Hunting for Hockey Teams sounds like SVPs at Apple making Christmas trees while they put out the Apple TV and it’s REMOTE.

      people think about all this.

      —–
      I’ve been Apple fan and user for over 2 decades and an aapl investor. Currently for personal use I have Mac Pros, 12.9 iPad Pro and a MBP. I’m only criticizing so that apple management will WAKE UP.

      1. Yes. Look at those long posts. Everyone seems to be going out of their way to argue that CEO Cook (and perhaps even the rest of the senior management) are spending more of their working time on social agenda than on products.

        This statement is simply absurd! Cook is spending hours (days) crafting a press release about bathroom laws, or immigration bans???

        I completely understand that there are some Apple fans here who still live in the 19th century and don’t agree that women should vote, blacks should be able to marry whites, or gays should be allowed to marry (or exist). And I understand that they will be upset at Apple for not sharing those views. But implying that, because they aren’t “Chick Fil-a”, they are wasting time and resources on pursuing social issues rather than products and services is simply ridiculous.

        1. Chick Fil-A and Hobby Lobby are good examples of private businesses that have built a corporate brand around their adherence to conservative Christian values. They have devoted far more resources (relative to the total size of the companies) to promoting that social agenda than Apple has to theirs. They are still in business.

          In the case of the Christian companies—the Supreme Court has told us that soulless corporations have religious rights—their position has probably helped them with some consumers and hurt them with others (my wife avoids Hobby Lobby, for example). The same is undoubtedly true of Apple, except that the “Fruit Company” is worth thousands of times as much as Chick Fil-A and Hobby Lobby combined.

          My guess is that most consumers buy products without reference to the politics of the vendor.

          Other than the brand appeal to other conservative Christians, the policies of these companies do not help their bottom line one bit. I assume that their position on health insurance has seriously harmed their ability to recruit women employees.

          In contrast, a company that did not share Apple’s values on LGBT issues would find it effectively impossible to recruit in Silicon Valley, Austin, Cambridge, and other places where even the straight residents put a high value on gay equality. That is why Apple has offered equal rights and benefits to its gay employees since at least the early 1990s.

          This isn’t a Tim Cook thing, or even an Apple thing. It is a High Tech thing. If you don’t like it, you are still free to buy Big Chief tablets and pencils (although it might be hard to find a slide rule or mechanical calculator).

          1. Excellent post! Couldn’t have written it better myself!

            It is also worth noting that there is a very heavy concentration of high-profile, high-market cap, highly successful companies precisely in those areas that have high level of social acceptance for everyone. Other than some very old money (Oil in Texas, Auto in Detroit), most innovative and driven corporations are in northern California, or on the East coast. Some will likely jump in to say that correlation doesn’t necessarily mean causation, but a bit deeper look into the history and culture of these successful corporation quickly reveals that they could only spring up in such progressive, socially accepting and tolerant environments. Their continuing success is such in no small part because they embrace and encourage diversity and acceptance (even if, yes, many of those tech corporations are still largely geeky-male).

        2. So Tim Cook did NOT spend ours crafting these things? So he did NOT spend a lot of time THINKING about it? If he did not spend a lot of time learning and understanding these COMPLEX issues (re; LONG posts above show complexity) Should he be commenting sooooo regularly on a HOST of social issues? Think about it before you write… Apple leaders do NOT SPEND A LOT OF TIME THINKING THINGS — on topics not in their specialty like engineering, that vex full time politicians, social scientists etc. — THROUGH BUT JUST COMMENT ? And that is good, THAT Is your argument?

          1. -Predrag, TXuser, honestly ask yourself do really believe the LEVEL of apples ‘social activism’ is just ‘business necessity ( ie for hiring staff etc as you say) Or is the level more of Tc’s personal obsession? but I guess I’m wasting my breath, for some people possibly like yourselves topics like this (gay rights etc) is almost a RELIGIOUS crusade, a hot topic button that is beyond logic. Me I’m a social liberal, I’m for gay, minority rights, but I’m not so consumed by it that I can’t see the bigger issue that I touched on in my first post: that there are WAY to many issues with Apple PRODUCTS (from Macs, to Apple in education, to Apple TV etc) while the leadership seems to be moving away from Job’s obsessive LASER FOCUS ON PRODUCTS (see first post)

            By coincidence I was just reading a book on the Kennedies. The writer said one of them Sarge Shriver was ranting about social justice one day to him and people shouldn’t just care about wealth and then a few weeks later he was gloating he helped sign a bunch of questionable Russian oil deals . What I’m getting at, with a lot of social stuff I take things with a healthy dose of skepticism…. Here like I said I just want Apple to fix its products.

            1. This is an Apple site, so we are reading just Apple’s comments on this subject. If you look a little wider, there are equivalent statements coming from virtually ALL of the High Tech firms in the country (and most other large companies headquartered in places with a substantial gay population). Very few of the other executives issuing those statements are themselves gay or otherwise LGBTQ.

              A position is not a personal obsession when it is shared by almost everybody in an industry. A position on a social issue does not create a competitive disadvantage when all one’s competitors take the same position. Those who hold this position do not see themselves as “pushing a hot topic button that is beyond logic,” but as taking a position that has inescapable logic in its favor, given the actual business conditions that their companies face.

              As Predrag points out, these statements can hardly be distracting from Apple’s focus on products. How much time does it take Tim Cook to pick up the phone and order the PR department to draft a press release? What _would_ be distracting would be for Apple’s employees to suspect that their company does not care about an issue that has consuming importance for their personal lives.

              Honestly, I don’t have a personal stake in the issue myself. I am white, male, straight, married, and retired. However, I can see how Apple Inc. does have a very powerful stake in the issue, a stake that is grounded in economics and not “social justice warfare.”

              Like immigration policy, this directly affects Apple’s ability to deploy employees where they are needed. How is the company supposed to send a transgendered employee to a meeting held in a public facility in North Carolina knowing that he or she will not be able to go to the bathroom?

              I am astonished that so many of you cannot see why this is such an important issue for the company.

            2. this is not just ONE statement this time but a PATTERN that TC has been exhibiting.
              C’mon, even the press picks TC as a prominent social activist.

              When TC met with Ivanka and Jared, he brought among all his SVPs etc just his manager of SOCIAL ISSUES . If TC set the agenda then of all things this is of great interest to him , if Trump’s people called him specially to discuss social than he’s KNOWN as an activist. Why is that? if he’s just like you describe ‘same as everybody else in Silicon’ valley why did they pick TC ?

              there are many times (10x, 50x?) more social comments and social videos (like diversity, gay parades) etc put out by Apple than MAC ADVERTISEMENTS in the last few years.

              I remember when they screwed up the Apple Watch launch, running out of product BEFORE the ADVERTISED launch date and people were driving miles to get a watch Apple PR said nothing. I waited for weeks as being an investor and the watch was a new device I was anxious for it’s success and wanted PR to straighten the mess as the press was going crazy. Nothing from Apple PR. Some time later they released a video on the San Francisco Gay parade.
              (AND saying this does NOT make me anti gay , I am just stating facts).

              Look at my long post , like my one below, this attitude, leadership example is completely different from Jobs.

              But like I said It’s impossible to talk moderately with people who have a NEAR RELIGIOUS obsession with this social issue thing.

            3. “as “pushing a hot topic button that is beyond logic,” but as taking a position that has inescapable logic in its favour”

              I probably did not word this correctly, I did not mean gender issues were ‘beyond logic’ but people’s support or condemnation of TC’s time spent on it. Like I corrected above ‘beyond logic’ should be ‘beyond moderation’. People are so passionate about this is that they no longer see how Apple is DRIFTING (in products etc). as Apple leadership doesn’t project signals that products are priority (see my long posts like below).

              “How much time does it take Tim Cook to pick up the phone and order the PR department to draft a press release?”

              seriously?

              I understand PR can draft it but TC hasn’t spent a lot of time thinking about it? So he just spews it out like people condemn Donald Trump for? (“I didn’t know, my guys told me that’– D. Trump)

            4. “Like immigration policy, this directly affects Apple’s ability to deploy employees”

              LASER FOCUS ON PRODUCTS will do more for Apple’s success than immigration policy , gay rights activism etc.
              (and one more time saying these things don’t make me anti gay or anti immigration … )

              with the myriad of problems I listed Apple is facing, their getting back the Product Centric-ness is way more crucial.

              ——–
              people arguing with me:

              FACT: Apple has many problems like I listed : Education, Cloud, ITunes, Apple TV, Pro macs, long time to solve things like wifi problem etc. The stock even with recent rise is still about a third Google/Alphabet’s PE, i.e if it had Goog’s valuation it would be 300.

              So what is the cause?
              a ) the SVPs and leadership are stupid and incompetent (but Jobs chose most of them)

              b) they are losing focus (like I’m arguing).

              c) bad leadership (like I’m also suggesting).

              So people arguing with me WHAT IS YOUR REASON why we got Apple TV the way it is with content and that Remote? if they are not losing focus on products?

            5. “I am astonished that so many of you cannot see why this is such an important issue for the company.”

              Important issue? Astonished? Yes, well for a retired sixties ACLU lawyer, 0.0000001% of the population and gay liberals like Cook and your straight self.

              The overwhelming majority doesn’t care, and more importantly, the majority does not want the federal government to MANDATE and POLICE bathroom laws in every nook and cranny shanty in the United States. Last time I checked the majority rules in business, politics, et al. — in America. Elections have consequences. Sorry you have a problem with that.

              Where you and PreDrag really disappoint is defending Apple wasting so much time on leftist social issues coming from Democrat party politics, defending the business practice of alienating moderate, conservative, religious Apple customers (Steve rolling in his grave) — but not enough time on fixing all that is wrong inside Apple. Hello?

              Since when do the feelings of less than one percent of the population, and their gang mentality supporters, mean more than the feelings of the other 99%+?

              I believe you are sincere in your beliefs, respect that, but think more about it and include all trains of thought.

              Bottom line: The absolute best thing about this latest liberal cause célèbre hot button issue is: what’s left? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. The liberal 1960s activist well has finally run dry. No more identity groups to righteously champion incessantly to the exclusion of everything else in life. WooHoo!

              Out of the way — paves the way — to looking forward to eight years of MAGA … 😎🇺🇸🔫🍻

            6. GoeB,

              I was not an ACLU lawyer and have never belonged to the organization. I was a prosecutor putting REAL public enemies in jail for thirty years while you were pretending to be tough on crime.

              I am not a liberal. I am a constitutional conservative who is literate enough to recognize that the Fourteenth Amendment exists precisely to protect the rights of individuals against the pretended rights of states to oppress them. I don’t think that the government—remember Reagan’s quote about it being the problem, not the solution—whether it is the local, state, or federal government, should be telling Americans where they can go to the bathroom.

              I know that all you fake conservatives have drunk the Flavour-Aide about how winning a plurality (not even the majority) in an election gives the mobocracy the right to tell the rest of the public where they can pee. I am speechless at the hypocrisy of the frequent posters here who insist that America is not a democracy but a constitutional republic, then ignore the actual Constitution when they find it inconvenient.

              You hate Tim Cook. Why? Because he stands up for gay rights? Well, Apple Computers was one of the first corporations in the country to offer full “marital” benefits to same-sex partners. That was under Steve Jobs, the allegedly non-political founder of the company. Your mama may have been wiping your bottom then, but I was around and I can assure you that Apple’s position on gay benefits was far, FAR more socially and politically controversial then than Cook’s positions are now.

              I spent about two weeks in 1993 in the middle of a whirlwind because Apple wanted to open a plant in my socially-conservative county and three of my county commissioners were offended by their benefits policy. It took a direct intervention by the Governor to break the immediate impasse, but Apple eventually just expanded its facilities in the friendlier climate of Austin. It cost the company money, but even 14 years ago they realized that they needed to have principles first. It cost my county and its residents a lot more money, of course.

              Identity politics? I wish you fake conservatives would quit behaving like your favorite group—undereducated white straight men—is entitled to a boost from Big Brother because other groups are whipping their butts in the free market. Oh yeah, affirmative action is a horrible thing unless you and yours are the recipients.

            7. TxUser,

              I’m surprised as a former prosecutor you are wrongly stating I implied you are an ACLU lawyer? That was just a general analogy example of belief systems that apply to the topic.

              Fake conservatives? I believe you are looking in the mirror. Your positions and arguments are as far left as I ever read. So, please spare us the liberal deceit. I could detail and point out your leftist views responding to my post and many others, but a waste of my time right now, sorry.

              Hate Cook? Another liberal keyword: HATE. Where did I ever post I hate Cook? I believe him to be a mild mannered and well intentioned CEO.

              My problem with him is his corporate intentions are off track, misguided and not what he is paid to do. You may disagree, fine.

              Clueless Cook needs to be reprimanded AGAIN by the board, more salary cuts to come or FIRED, to get the Apple train running smoothly on time. And jettison this leftist social engineering that occupies way too much time and attention. Not good, folks (DT).

              Guess you are totally unaware of Steve’s views and advice on mixing politics and business. Not a surprise for a liberal conservative pretender.

              Us so called FAKE CONSERVATIVES expect the SAME treatment from Apple as LIBERALS.

              Have a nice day … 😎🔫🇺🇸

            8. I say this not to contradict or insult you, but to praise you.

              Isn’t any constitutionalist a liberal? The Constitution defines the freedoms of our citizenry, and is hum, ‘conservatively’ non-restricting.

              Was Lincoln not a Liberal? The founding fathers? They maximized freedom when crafting the Constitution.

            9. “I said I just want Apple to fix its products.”

              Well said! Amen.

              That 100% sensible talk is totally lost on left wing activist posters on MDN. Their many twisted reality reasons trying to paint Apple as holier than thou progressive, caring and my favorite — saving the world — amount to indignant inflated hogwash!

              Follow Steve’s guiding mission to stay out of politics, including right wing politics, and do your job fixing all that is wrong with Apple as you rightly suggest.

              Words for the wise: Don’t complain about the snow on your neighbors roof when your doorstep is unclean. Apple wastes far too much time and energy on liberal flavor of the month cause célèbre … 😡

  4. With the last intervention in North Dakota, the pseudo-president Biff Trump proves that he has to leave as quickly as possible!
    This guy has no brains and is totally lacking the slightest minimum of empathy!

  5. There’s a lack of perspective in these comments. The Obama administration gave direction to all public schools that they have to go along with the gender self-identification of any student with not just bathrooms, but locker rooms, shared showers, and room arrangements for overnight trips.
    Since we’re talking about minors here, I have to assume they haven’t had body mutilation surgery yet. So Obama told schools they HAVE to let males in the female locker rooms and showers or risk losing any federal dollars (which is of course our tax money).
    Gender privacy is a millennia-old concept. If you have a daughter, tell me if you really think it’s OK that she has to be naked in front of a gender-dysphoric male? Or that your daughter is forced to share facilities with swinging dicks on full display? Or on the flip side, imagine a female with breasts and female parts entering the boys showers. That could get interesting.
    It’s sick, insane, and thank goodness the directive is gone. Students who identify as a different gender can be treated with respect and compassion without throwing out a basic tenet of society (privacy).

    1. Ok, I’ll bite. HOW can they be treated with respect and compassion? Please provide specific advice on how you think schools should handle the presence of transgender students. They exist, so ignoring them is not an acceptable answer.

      Before you begin, I will state that my personal preference would be for the facilities to be designed so that not only transgender students but also modest straight students could be provided with privacy. Schools could build individual lockable toilet stalls, dressing rooms and showers, for example. It would be enormously expensive to retrofit existing facilities, but not all that costly to build for privacy going forward. It would raise your taxes, but I assume that is a secondary consideration to protecting a basic tenet of society.

      Without that, what is your answer?

      Are we going to prohibit transgender students from any participation in extracurricular activities? Are they going to be required to run track in their street clothes without a shower after? How about physical education, which is usually a required course?

      About bathrooms: Do we expect transgender women to lift their skirts and pee on a wall outside? Should transgender men pull down their pants to relieve themselves behind the gym? Failing that, are we going to force muscular men with beards, deep voices, and (often) a sexual attraction to females into the women’s facilities? Are we going to force women in makeup and dresses to use the men’s facilities?

      Would you want your daughter to do that? I would suggest that one transgender woman in a room full of male athletes is in a lot more danger (of the invasion of her privacy and physical harm) than a roomful of female athletes is from the same transgender woman.

      1. You make good points about facilities going forward, but it will take many decades, possibly centuries, before schools built before 2017 are replaced. Again, perspective is needed. In a school of 1,000, you are talking about somewhere between zero and 1 student. Schools can make reasonable accommodations – making a single-occupancy restroom unisex for instance. For changing and showering, the school can have a conversation with the individual about which locker room they’re more comfortable in, then provide private time when opposite sex students are not present. The answer to this very small, essentially non-exisitant problem is NOT to take privacy from rights from everyone else.
        As for “muscular men with beards, deep voices” – the Obama directive applied to public schools. Except for a few high school seniors, these are minors and no ethical doctor should be giving damaging hormone treatments to teens whose bodies are still developing. So that should be a non-issue, though there is a current case of a 17 year old female wrestler who’s taking testosterone and is wrestling females. Many of her opponents are understandably concerned about this female having an unfair advantage. That brings up a whole other subject of gender separation in sports. Anatomical females competing as males won’t be nearly as controversial as the opposite, because males have inherent advantage in most sports. If all sports become unisex, women can forget about ever winning. Male athletes will always be able to run faster, lift more weight, jump higher and throw farther. I once finished a 15k race and they were handing out top 5% finisher hats at the finish line. I reached out for mine but was told they were only for women since the top 5% of men had already finished.
        Feel free to label me a bigot, but my views are quite simple: no penises in the girl’s facilities and no vaginas in the boy’s facilities.

        1. I agree with most of what you say. There are ways to make accommodations if people are willing to be creative and flexible. The problem is that most people aren’t. The policies in North Carolina and similar places make no accommodations at all. Transgender women need to sashay on their high heels into the men’s locker room while it is full of jocks and that’s the end of it.

          (As for my other example, the NC policy does not just apply to high schools, but to all public facilities… like the women’s locker room at a public golf course, where teenaged girls might well be oggled by a bearded thirty-year old weightlifter on heavy-duty hormone therapy.)

          The transgender boy in Texas who is now in the state girls’ wrestling finals does not want to be there. From the beginning of the season, he has said that he wants to compete against other boys. However, a rule endorsed by 95% of the coaches in the state allows for no exceptions. His birth certificate decides in which bracket he competes and that’s the end of it. His testosterone is prescribed by a doctor for a medical condition and that’s the end of that, too.

  6. A curious thing keeps popping up on these forums every time Apple publicly announces a reaction to some social policy (most often, related to LGBT issues, but also on immigration). The hyperbole seems to be so outsized it becomes completely absurd. The common thread in all these messages are: “Tim Cook is totally distracted by his social agenda, he is no longer running the company”; or “If Cook spent even half the time running company as he spends on social agenda,…”.

    I know that for most, these sentences are purposeful hyperbole in order to make a point. However, the increasing frequency of posters keep listing the litany of shortcomings of failures (AppleTV, Apple Music, Mac Pro, etc…) as a direct consequence of CEO spending time on social issues instead of running the company.

    While it is a matter for a legitimate debate whether Cook is efficiently running Apple, or whether those shortcomings or ‘failures’ are material to Apple’s success, the main point here needs to be perfectly clear to everyone.

    It takes a few minutes to draft a press release or public statement on a specific issue. Does anyone really believe that Cook takes several hours every day to write these??? Is anyone here that misguided that they honestly think that anyone at Apple (not just Cook) spends ANY of their working hours on ANYTHING other than Apple products and services??? With the exception of Apple’s PR/communications team, NO. And more than likely, when Apple speaks out as a corporation, the initiative to issue a public statement, as well as the content of that statement, most certainly came form the PR team, and not from their gay CEO.

    1. like I said above:

      “So Tim Cook did NOT spend ours crafting these things? So he did NOT spend a lot of time THINKING about it? If he did not spend a lot of time learning and understanding these COMPLEX issues (re; LONG posts above from a myriad of people show complexity) Should he be commenting sooooo regularly on a HOST of social issues? Think about it before you write… Apple leaders do NOT SPEND A LOT OF TIME THINKING THINGS — on topics not in their specialty like engineering, that vex full time politicians, social scientists, lawmakers, religious leaders etc. — THROUGH BUT JUST COMMENT ? And that is good, THAT Is your argument?”

      “Cook is efficiently running Apple”
      like I said in my long post:
      IS is he running it efficiently?
      AppleTV
      Apple in Education from commanding lead to 10%, Chromebooks from Zero to 50% plus.
      Mac issues especially Mac Pros and Minis
      Years later, Tens of billions in R&D and under cook the ONLY new hardware are iPhone accessories : Watch and Airpods.
      i.e 95% or more of Apple’s revenues still come from products under Job’s watch.
      Simple Issues like Wifi not solved and no response from PR for months, while PR has great urgency on social issues
      iCloud, iTunes, issues and a HOST More too long to list .

      As I’ve said I can see loss of Job’s LASER FOCUS on PRODUCTS.

      the other question is WHAT IS LEADERSHIP? What is the MESSAGE cook is giving to his staff? Priority on products? or over concern on social issues. Staff subconsciously follow leader’s priorities.

      Like I said we’ve got SVPs doing Christmas trees, furniture for charities , Coffee Table books , sponsoring fashion shows etc. while the CORE : macs, cloud, TV , iTunes etc are in a mess.
      you’ve got at least 10 times more Apple PR comments and videos on social issues (like diversity, gay rights parades) etc than MAC ADVERTISEMENTS in the last few years,
      (and saying this does NOT make me anti gay etc, i”m just stating facts)

      Jobs did not want to celebrate Apple’s 30th Anniversary or create an Apple ‘Museum’ for old products, because he wanted staff to be laser focused on FUTURE PRODUCTS. He did not want Apple to be heavily involved in charities , Apple just matching staff contributions, because managers THINKING about these things — social issues — were to him a DISTRACTION.

      Predrag you would have argued that a 30th anniversary bash WOULD NOT TAKE A LOT OF TIME, but do you see, Jobs understood leadership, he knew SIGNALS would create an atmosphere, a direction, and the ATMOSPHERE he wanted to build was seriousness on products and EVEN celebrations of the past gave the wrong signals . (it’s really weird you guys don’g get this as I basically said it all above, I think your OBSESSIONS about gay rights etc is screwing up your logic)

      Jobs Product Focus attitude is what made Apple Great. Like I said probably 95% or more of Apple’s current revenues and all those groundbreaking things : GUI, iTunes, iPod, App store, Retail chain, iPhone, iPad etc created by Jobs (incredibly a large number in his last 10 years or so of his life, vs the dearth under TC’s years ) .

      1. Wow!! Another one of those long posts, arguing essentially that Cook is dedicating too much of his time to his social agenda. Which is simply absurd.

        Look, as I had already said before, we can legitimately argue if Cook is doing a good job as the CEO of Apple, or if Apple has lost its innovative edge it used to have under Jobs. But that discussion has nothing to do with Apple’s official position on social issues.

        Public pronouncements are the responsibility of Apple’s PR. As any competent CEO does, Cook delegates such duties to his PR team. He may have choose to give the final approval, but any necessary hours needed to craft the message are put in by company’s communications group.

        As for the general messaging (to the staff, and the public), I think I can agree with you on that; Cook likely has a more specific and stronger message on social issues than Jobs did. I’m not really convinced it is to the detriment of core mission, though.

        1. “Public pronouncements are the responsibility of Apple’s PR”

          like I told TX user:
          “I understand PR can draft it but TC hasn’t spent a lot of time thinking about it? So he just spews it out like people condemn Donald Trump for? (“I didn’t know, my guys told me that’– D. Trump)”.

          the ONLY way to correctly approve anything like this is to have spent a LOT of time on THINKING about it. Like I said some of the issues (besides this gender bathroom) TC has been harping on are very complex that they have stump sociologists, lawmakers, economists, politicians and religious leaders, its something you have mull and get expertise BEFORE APPROVING PR spiel.

          and I paste from above as you guys not reading what I wrote:
          “this is not just ONE statement this time but a PATTERN that TC has been exhibiting.
          C’mon, even the press picks TC as a prominent social activist. They preface him “Apple’s Social Activist leader… ”

          When TC met with Ivanka and Jared, he brought among all his SVPs etc just his manager of SOCIAL ISSUES . If TC set the agenda then of all things this is of great interest to him , if Trump’s people called him specially to discuss social than he’s KNOWN as an activist. Why is that? if he’s just like you describe ‘same as everybody else in Silicon’ valley why did they pick TC ?

          there are many times (10x, 50x?) more social comments and social videos (like diversity, gay parades) etc put out by Apple than MAC ADVERTISEMENTS in the last few years.

          I remember when they screwed up the Apple Watch launch, running out of product BEFORE the ADVERTISED launch date and people were driving miles to get a watch Apple PR said nothing. I waited for weeks as being an investor and the watch was a new device I was anxious for it’s success and wanted PR to straighten the mess as the press was going crazy. Nothing from Apple PR. Some time later they released a video on the San Francisco Gay parade.
          (AND saying this does NOT make me anti gay , I am just stating facts).”

          ——–

          “I’m not really convinced it is to the detriment of core mission, though.”
          like I wrote:
          “people arguing with me:

          FACT: Apple has many problems like I listed : Education, Cloud, ITunes, Apple TV, Pro macs, long time to solve things like wifi problem etc. The stock even with recent rise is still about a third Google/Alphabet’s PE, i.e if it had Goog’s valuation it would be 300.

          So what is the cause?
          a ) the SVPs and leadership are stupid and incompetent (but Jobs chose most of them)

          b) they are losing focus (like I’m arguing).

          c) bad leadership (like I’m also suggesting).

          So people arguing with me WHAT IS YOUR REASON why we got Apple TV the way it is with content and that Remote? if they are not losing focus on products?”

          1. Btw: I USED TO WORK IN MARKETING AND PR.

            let me tell you we do NOT craft policy. It’s up to management and clients to tell us WHAT THEY ARE THINKING.
            what I’m saying for all the myriad social issues TC has been on BESIDES this bathroom thing, he’s spent a LOT of time on it (it’s not PR dept) otherwise he’s just making ignorant decisions.

        2. General frustration with Apple is palpable around here, and has been for a long time. It requires voice. That takes several forms:

          – demanding that Apple get off the schneid
          – expressing indignance at the thinness fetish and the dumbing-down of the UI
          – explaining Apple’s shortcomings as a result of distractions like the Spaceship
          – accusing Apple of appeasing Wall Street, or its shareholders
          – noting a steep decline in quality assurance
          – denouncing Apple for milking a cash cow whilst starving the remainder of the livestock
          – criticising Tim Cook for being, or caring about, LGBT
          – criticising him for losing his touch with the supply chain
          – listing all of Apple’s failures, as far back as the hockey puck mouse
          – proving that the pipeline is a pipe dream
          – pointing out that fashionistas have taken over, and thrown us under the bus
          – questioning adherence to the Steve Jobs business model
          – condemning their arrogance

          I acknowledge that most of these outpourings have some justification. What I find remarkable is that other technology giants don’t seem to get anything like this intensive treatment. Is it because Apple is a toppling giant, or as the biggest giant, just an easy target?

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