“A new report citing sources in the Taiwan handset supply chain says Apple has contracted to produce a UMTS/CDMA hybrid iPhone due in the third quarter of next year that will enable the company to sell a single global handset to all carriers, and specifically to Verizon Wireless in the US,” Prince McLean reports for AppleInsider.
“The report by OTR Global, provided to AppleInsider by an industry analyst, says the new ‘worldmode’ iPhone will gain compatibility with CDMA2000 networks (including Verizon’s US network, which is currently incompatible with existing iPhone models) while retaining compatibility with UMTS 3G networks globally using a new hybrid chip produced by Qualcomm,” McLean reports.
“According to OTR’s sources, Asustek subsidiary Pegatron will build the new hybrid phone devices for Apple rather than Hon Hai, the iPhone’s current manufacturer,” McLean reports. “This decision was reportedly made to prevent the company from being ‘constrained by a single-source assembler.'”
McLean reports, “The research note also identified the new phone as having a 2.8″ screen, which is significantly smaller than the current iPhone’s 3.5″ display.”
Full article here.
[Thanks to MacDailyNews Reader “Lynn W.” for the heads up.]
smaller screen ? Does not compute.
There’s no way in hades, Apple is coming out with a 2.8″ iPhone.. There’s no reason to going smaller.
Heck, I wish they’d go up to a 4″ or 4.25″ screen.
Didn’t they report a smaller iPhone was going to be released earlier this year, too? That report sure turned out to be legit, didn’t it?
As soon as I read the bit about a smaller screen, I knew that this report was nonsense. I don’t believe Apple would change the form factor. A smaller screen would be VERY impractical!
Absolute hogwash!
iDon’t want to see the iPhone on Verizon’s network.
iPhone nano maybe?
Software giant Microsoft said it will cut 800 employees worldwide, in addition to the 5,000 cuts already announced. To add insult to injury, severance packages will include Windows 7.
(Copied and Pasted from, “This Just In” App. Thought it was funny:-)
This is going to stop potential Android buyers on their tracks.
Now, they must wait until next year to find out their real choices
at wee rye son.
Vapor, smoke or what have you — these talk introduces an
element of uncertainty.
And rational consumers’ reaction has to be to wait to find out more,
and suspend any immediate plans to buy Moto’s Froid.
Sigh… the whole point of the platform (iPhone, iPod touch) is that there is one form factor for us and developers. This is obviously a bogus report.
I had someone tell me the other day that AT&T;’s contract is up in June with Apple and Verizon would be getting the iPhone. We shall see
Verizon? Maybe. Smaller screen? Not a chance. The ecosystem is based on the current screen size.
Lololo u guys r on point about smaller screen… Bunch of BS keep the smaller screen..
Supposed “smaller screen size” has me discounting reports; developers would have a fit if they had to redesign apps for a smaller screen. Makes no sense…
Today in puerto Rico newspaper announced that ATT bought Centennial mobile with almost 1million suscribers in USA and PR. Centenial is one of the largest carriers in the Caribbean with CDMA network. Fusion will be completed by June 2010 and they announced iPhone compability
Almost sounded beleivable until they said smaller screen. Won’t happen.
From newswires:
“To provide the best experience possible for Centennial customers who choose to migrate to AT&T;service, prior to the transition, AT&T;plans to deploy 3G at more than 200 sites in Centennial’s markets. This deployment plan includes adding 3G capabilities at more than 100 sites and expanding 3G coverage and capacity at approximately 100 sites.”
and this excerpt:
“AT&T;plans to integrate Centennial’s networks and products with AT&T;’s networks and product portfolio. The transaction extends AT&T;’s wireless network coverage in primarily rural areas of Indiana, Louisiana, Michigan, Ohio and Texas as well as enhances coverage in Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands.”
So looks like CDMA is not going to be used, and finally beefing up the rural areas where AT&T;is weak. I know in Ohio from personal experience. You get out from the big cities and their coverage sucks.
Here is the link to the full article: http://newsblaze.com/story/2009110605541700001.bw/topstory.html
Even if the screen was higher density, allowing the same pixel count as current models, that still doesn’t resolve the issue of keyboard usability or overall finger-friendliness. How could they possibly make a 2.8″ screen workable when the current portrait keyboard is already such a tight fit?
Agree with LeeSweet:
Look at the any stats regarding global market share comparing GSM vs CDMA- Its around 81 % for GSM and 19%.CDMA.
Apple is a global company and they look at market share globally. In the Americas (not US alone) GSM is 88% and CDMA is about 10% 1.5% others. (Source: 4rth qtr 2008 market share by technology- Wireless Intelligence.)
So unless this ‘something completely different’, this phone is more wishful thinking by those happy customers of
Verizon who want an Iphone. Not sure how happy they would be using a Iphone on a 2.8″ screen though..
Verizion is not going to get the Iphone until they get away from CDMA which is what I think they are planning to do in the next few years anyway.
Besides, It still makes not sense for Apple to make a phone with CDMA, based on global market share, it 80%-20% in favor of GSM. Only the US is the abberation here ( kinda like Metric vs. English system) google CDMA-GSM global Market share and it’s about 80% to 20% in favor
oops – ignore the bottom para. I forgot to delete before I posted.
The reason why the smaller screen isn’t believable has nothing to do with developers. The resolution could be the same even if the screen is smaller. This would have zero impact on developers.
The real problem is that since everything would scale down, the keyboard and other interface items would all be much smaller.
There’s really nothing to gain from a smaller iPhone.
The idea that Apple is coming out with a smaller screen CDMA iPhone is silly and not worth considering.
CDMA only makes snse for China. Why would Apple add a radio chip but make the phone smaller?
Yet another bogus report from Taiwan industry “sources”. And yet people publish this stuff without any verification.
Well, it doesn’t seem likely with the smaller screen; however, one, adding a second radio means sacrificing space internally, not just for the hybrid radio chip, but for the antennas, which must be reconfigured; and two, the screen size of 2.8″ at the same pixel density would mean a screen only 22.5% smaller in the horizontal and vertical dimensions. I think while most would consider that too small, when the iPhone came out, I think most considered it rather large. A phone 22.5% smaller in each dimension would more closely resemble the size of traditional phones.
The screen is not actually smaller, it’s just farther away.
Wow. What a bunch of ignoramuses.
You just can’t let go can you? You can’t tHInk DiffErent can you. You think you’re in lockstep with Steve Jobs but he’s already given his blessing to Apple’s road map to the future.
He’s not going to nit-pick how the work gets done.
I told you Verizon is getting an iPhone. Apple has closed the divide between two platforms once again.
All the naysayers have done is to prove they can’t tHInk DiffErent because they’re still waiting for retribution.
Within a year the iPhone will be on all carriers with models and plans starting for little more than a Benjamin.
Now the Blood Flood* can begin.
* It’s mine. I meant to use the trade mark symbol but my Touch is missing that keystroke.
@G4Dualie: Nice angry rant with little content. I see you didn’t bother to rebut any of the arguments as to why a CDMA iPhone would make no damn sense. I’m going to guess that’s because you can’t.
I’ll believe in a Verizon iPhone the day one is announced. Until then, all the evidence — from Verizon’s use of CDMA to their anti-iPhone Droid ads — points away from the possibility of a Verizon iPhone.
This is just as likely FUD designed to keep people from considering the Droid. Not that it’s really necessary, but maybe a Taiwanese manufacturer is a little nervous about future business.
——RM
@ G4Dualie
Everybody “thinks different”. The trick is to “think different” with intelligence.
This report is certainly suspect. The “smaller iPhone” rumor has already been shown to be false earlier this year, and as other commeters here have noted makes no sense anyway. So, you’d be foolish not to view this story with at least some skepticism.
P.S. The app you want is “Glyphboard”, which allows you to copy/paste the trademark symbol and other similar characters.
@G4Duallie
Sorry, it’s not Steve Jobs thinking but rather global marketing. Tell me are the Iphones sold in China CDMA? I don’t thinks so. Over 80% of the world market is GMS less that 20% CDMA. Why make a phone for 20% fof the Global Market?
Verizon will get the Iphone in a few years, when everyone converges on a single global standard. GSM + or whatever.
T-mobile will get the Iphone before Verizon does as they are already GSM. And T-mobile carries the Iphone in Germany. No technological leap for them other than more capacity and coverage.
@ Stiff Ballme
That’s a good one – Moto’s Froid.
Whether you meant it to sound like “fraud”, or were intending the French froide for cold, both are very funny.
Hey MDN, pick up on this one!
CDMA is dead end!
You think size matters? Resolution is the word of the day.
Qualcomms hybrid is a bridge not a doorway.
The trouble I think is you guys get locked into a paradigm and you won’t budge.
Hell would freeze over before Apple goes anywhere near Microsoft or windows!
Let’s review what you all said about that cannard.
As I see it, you’re all still looking for the puck.
This is business gentlemen, and anyone who doubts Apple is bringing the iPhone to every carrier on the planet, raise your hands!
Apple NEVER built their phone with a single carrier in mind. EVER!
They snickered under their breath when he said one percent. No one imagined for a moment that he’d ever be content with one percent.
Admit it, you’ve wondered how is he ever going to gain real traction or marketshare with a couple of SKUs and a single carrier?
Suddenly it was announced a deal has been made with several carriers outside the US, including two in Canada that are CDMA only, but they managed to bridge the gap between two competing technologies.
Your problem is you can’t find the real truth among the lies and false leads.
What if I told you there is no smaller phone? It matters not because you would carefully craft another obstacle.
Personally, I wish Apple would just licence the OS to the carrier and turn every smart phone on the planet into iPhones over night, but unfortunately there just aren’t enough of them yet.
Perhaps Apple is waiting for the manufacturers and carriers to obtain parity with the iPhone before the OS will provide the optimum experience across the board. Hopefully, multi-touch’s impact on the consumer will cause the handset makers to consider licensing the tech from Apple.
Either way, I say it’s simpler for Apple to invest in a hybrid chip as a temporary solution, pending the death of CDMA, rather than waiting for Verizon to drop CDMA or LTE.
You know, many of you live here but you’re always the last to know!
@grognard
Why make a phone for 20% fof the Global Market?
Indeed, why build a computer for 3 percent of the global market?
I was with Apple when their computer market share was probably as high as 90 percent of the global market in the late Seventies and early eighties and stayed when it shrunk to less than 3 percent.
Imagine the balls it took to continue making computers and charging twice what its competitors were charging for theirs! But more importantly, I and many like me, were still buying macs because we knew there was more to the story.
Coke/Pepsi LTE/GSM
@Robin
I see you didn’t bother to rebut any of the arguments as to why a CDMA iPhone would make no damn sense.
Bingo! I don’t suffer fools.
Breeze stumbled and Mac tony tripped over him, followed by driver.
Everyone focuses, nay, gets hung up on a single detail and immediately the entire topic is suspect.
captain kirk declares “Absolute hogwash!”
Some of you however, have kept an open mind about Verizon acquiring the phone even after discounting the idea of a new phone.
That’s all I’ve done, really. Is focusing on the HOW of it, not the why.
Would anyone here walk away from this experience just because Apple chooses to do business with Verizon?
And what do you care whether Apple manufacturers a phone capable of operating on CDMA or LTE anyway? How does this impact you and your life?
What, Apple couldn’t possibly make the transition seamless for developers? They INVENTED this! They are champions of the transition.
How many of you screamed and stomped your feet because Apple moved to OS X and dropped OS 9 support? Or from Moto to PPC?
How many of you left Apple because they went Intel? Or Microsoft?
The same people scoffing today are the same who could have never imagined Apple doing business with the devil.
I heard Jobs loud and clear at expo when he declared the war is over, and Microsoft won. That war was not the war to end all wars, get it?
Jobs just went ninja!
@G4Dualie
Get your facts straight…
“Suddenly it was announced a deal has been made with several carriers outside the US, including two in Canada that are CDMA only, but they managed to bridge the gap between two competing technologies.”
You haven’t been reading the reports, including the ones posted on this site. Bell Mobility and Telus have both been quickly and quietly upgrading their networks. I forget the name of the new technology they’ve used, but it is GSM compatible, and *THAT* is why they will start selling the iPhone. (In fact, Telus will start this month.)
Imagine how angry they’d be if they’d invested this much money to install a new network only to find out Apple changed its mind and is now making CDMA-compatible phones.
None of that makes sense, and your arguments don’t hold any water.
akido said,
iDon’t want to see the iPhone on Verizon’s network.
Why? Because you don’t want them to enjoy the same experience you receive from ATT?
In other words, you want to punish Verizon, right? Tell me I’m wrong and your reasons are more noble that I had imagined?
@ mr_matalino
iPhone nano maybe?
Thank you for invoking that image.
I remember when the boards kind of creamed themselves at the thought of an iPhone Nano. Then the idea was crushed by the naysayers. A nano would only pollute the waters, adding an additional phone to support.
Suddenly, the thought of another small phone, invokes the wrath of the myopic once again. Because they’re fixated on size. Never mind resolution independence.
Apple couldn’t build a smaller laptop because the optical drive was an insurmountable hurdle so what does Apple do, they removed it from the drawing board. And boom: Mac Book Air with an optional drive.
They dropped the floppy drive, the optical drive, and they won’t be happy until they can remove every impediment keeping them from putting a computer on my wrist!
@db
I don’t have any facts! No one does. You can’t even remember the name of the technology that enables Tellus to deploy the iPhone but the fact is they ARE going to get the phone and they ARE currently CDMA.
Besides the point I was making is that ATT doesn’t have exclusivity to the phone outside the US.
It wasn’t all that long ago when ATT was the ONLY carrier. Now how many are there?
@db
Let me get this straight, you were even part of the discussion nor have you said anything that hasn’t been said already, and instead of refuting what the author is saying, or injecting your thoughts on the matter, your first order of business is to whack me? What, like I’m some kind of troll?
Did I hit a nerve? Apparently, you speak for everyone here, is that it? Your loyalty is showing.
I’ll tell you what db, you defend them and I’ll defend Apple. K, cupcake?
@robin
This is just as likely FUD designed to keep people from considering the Droid.
If it is, its genius!
@lee
Sigh… the whole point of the platform (iPhone, iPod touch) is that there is one form factor for us and developers. This is obviously a bogus report.
Tell us, how does this impact you as a user or a developer?
Do you really think Apple would allow the app store to suddenly start stocking two different kinds of applications; one for the hybrid and one for 3G?
Aren’t they doing exactly that now with apps for 3GS and the first-gen SKUs?
Where’d everybody go? go go go echo echo echo
Oh, I see. You’ve moved on already.
Dismissed the idea of a Verizon iPhone. Just like you dismissed OS X, PPC, Intel procs, Windows on Mac, and wait for it… glossy screens.
I’m just sayin’
Verizon will get iPhone next year, followed by Sprint, and T-Mobile and the transition will be seamless for everyone, including the developers but here’s the real mayo; the developers are going to become filthy rich selling ninety-nine cent apps to world.
After that you’ll all return to doin’ what it was you were doin’ before Apple turned your heads. Phhffft
G4Dualie:
For a while there, it looked like you were having a conversation with yourself there. Isn’t there anything you could do on a Saturday afternoon…? Well, I’m here as well, so there.
I can see you really, really hope (and cross your fingers) for Verizon to be allowed to sell and iPhone. It won’t.
Hybrid CDMA/GSM chips have been available for a long time. Other handset makers have been making dual models of their phones forever (GMS and CDMA variant). Regardless of the grim future of CDMA and small global market share, it would be trivial for Apple to build CDMA. That is NOT it.
Apple is now receiving a MASSIVE subsidy from AT&T. No other carrier is paying $450 per device; the maximum subsidy for high-end smartphones is never more than $250. This subsidy is normally recovered over the period of 18-20 months. This is why carriers require two-year contracts; so that they can recover the subsidy from monthly plan payments. Once 18-20 months expire, you are allowed to get a new free phone (and extend the contract for two more years). With iPhone, AT&T cannot recover that subsidy during that two year contract. In order to get the extra $200, it takes another 15-18 months. Even though you are still only required two-year contract on an iPhone, the subsidy won’t be completely covered until after three years of use. This is because AT&T is the ONLY carrier in the US, and practically EVERY old iPhone where two year have expired will stay on AT&T (it has nowhere to go). Due to a different subsidy model on the EDGE iPhone, many of those have already recovered their subsidy (which was lower, due to the higher up-front price of $400). For the past year and a half, though, the iPhone’s retail up-front price was $200.
If Apple decided to extend iPhone to other carriers, AT&T would IMMEDIATELY have to drop that subsidy down to $250 or so. There would be no chance they would be willing to take the massive risk of customers bailing out immediately after two years and switching to another carrier (Verizon, T-Mobile, whichever). And as we know, dissatisfaction with AT&T isn’t all that trivial, so these numbers could potentially be huge, so they can’t afford that risk. Same would go for the other carrier; NOBODY would be able to risk the $450 subsidy, unless they require 3-4 year contracts.
Outside of US, iPhone is offered on multiple carriers in many countries. However, if you study their plans, it is clear that the carriers is subsidising the device heavily, locking the consumer in a long-term contract, or requiring an expensive monthly plan. There just ain’t such a thing as free lunch, and nobody would be getting it here via Verizon either.
Apple simply CANNOT afford to go with multiple carriers today, unless they are willing to cut their profit margin on an iPhone by some 60% (i.e. by $250 per device). The benefit of multiple carriers (possibly larger addressable market) is insignificant compared to the massive loss in profits it would have to absorb by so dramatically cutting that margin.
Until iPhone becomes significantly cheaper to make, there will be no Verizon (or T-Mobile, or Sprint) iPhone in the US. And CDMA has very little to do with it.
In other words, Apple has painted themselves in the corner with the current iPhone hardware platform and AT&T as a carrier. Until the paint dries, they’re stuck (and it might take years to dry…).
@Predrag
Okay then, there it is. You’ve put that canard to rest. No point in beating a dead horse, right?
CDMA is dead and LTE will die on the vine because Apple won’t support Verizon’s effort to offer an alternative to GSM. Perhaps that’s a better strategy, kill off LTE by ignoring it and side with the rest of the world to use a single platform like GSM.
Apple will get by without Verizon’s, Sprint’s and T-Mobiles business anyway.
I’ll let it go.
After all it’s just my opinion, supported without any facts whatsoever. I’ve been wrong before. Hell, I’m probably wrong about manufacturing in the US as well.
Thanks for taking the time to spell it out for me.
Hey Predrag, do us a favor and hit the lights on your way out.
Cheers!
Translating the story:
This message is from Verizon, but we don’t want anyone to know that, so we planted a rumor. Our real aim is to keep our customers from switching to AT&T;to get an iPhone (which they are now doing in droves), now that we fear the Droid is not an iPhone killer. So yes, our story is we’ll be getting the iPhone really soon! And we’ve added some details to make the story seem plausible. So there’s really no reason to consider switching to AT&T;. Really! We promise!
“Dualie”
Does that mean what I think it means? Not that there’s anything wrong with that.
You fan boys crack me up. I remember how y’all pissed yer panties over the rumers that Apple was going to Intel procs. “Intel is the worst piece of crap in the world!” You remember, huh do ya?
Now yer prancin around all a twitter over the very idea that someone besides AT&T;might carry iPhones. Really, you guys crack me up.
@macerroneous
Probably not, but are you the same “50-year-old forum provocateur” who works in the medical field and who said this over in the MacWorld forums back in August of ’08?
Chipset shmipset
I’m just an idiot, but I don’t think Apple is leaving Intel just yet.
Reverse Thrust
If you had read these boards at all, you may have found out that there is a preponderance of fans o Verizon here, and the only reason forum contributors are with AT&T (those that are) is the iPhone. Not much love for the carrier, otherwise.
Very many here would camp for a week in order to switch to Verizon if it were available. So, plenty really, really wish it so, and try to argue with every bit of reason in that favour, interpreting every single shred of rumour with that spin.
My own opinion is that those hopes are against the reality, as I had explained in my rather lengthy contribution here (and elsewhere, previously).
Apple simply can’t afford to jack up retail price back to $400, only to be able to sell iPhone on other US carriers.
@Predrag
if you had read these boards at all, you may have found out that there is a preponderance of fans o Verizon here
That’s odd, because not one of them has stepped forward and announced they’re in favor of a Verizon iphone.
By the way, do you know what it costs to make an iphone or assemble one?
The numbers that have been often quoted are:
$220 for EDGE model;
$182 for 3G (8GB)
$190 for 3GS (16GB)
This is supposed to be the price Apple pays Foxcon for each iPhone, FOB. Add to that freight from Foxcon to the distribution channels (fairly minuscule, considering the packaging size) and other logistic expenses, and you still have a number that is very close to $200 per device. Considering that Apple receives some $650 from the retailer for every phone sold, the margins are quite healthy.
G4Dualie,
I know you’re veteran MDN poster, so it surprises me that you haven’t seen comments from Verizon fans.
“If Verizon got the iPhone, I’d dump AT&T in a heartbeat” has been a recurring theme with many variations, for quite some time now.
For me personally, as long as the iPhone is $200 retail, and plans don’t get more expensive than $70, I’m fine either way. While I always preferred GSM phones (I do a lot of overseas travel), in case of the iPhone and AT&T, it doesn’t matter, since I can’t legitimately unlock the device in order to pop in some local SIM card while abroad. This is yet another clear proof how different the iPhone is for AT&T. They will let you unlock literally EVERY other phone they sell as soon as you ask them. However, not even EDGE iPhones can be unlocked by AT&T. They simply cannot afford to lose that subsidy-recovering data plan.
As a matter of fact, now that I think of it, this is THE ONLY reason for me personally why I don’t have the iPhone yet. My existing phone is on AT&T; their signal in NYC is reliable enough for me to not complain. Everything else about the iPhone is perfect for me. But the ability for me to unlock my cellphone immediately after purchasing is essential. I have had some 15 different GSM phones between Omnipoint, Voicestream, T-Mobile, Cingular and now AT&T. Every SINGLE one was unlocked using instructions provided by the carrier’s customer support. And I would always do it right after receiving the new phone.
Spending a lot of time abroad (EU), I tend to use local SIM cards very often. This is never an issue with all those cheap GSM (dumb)phones. However, AT&T still won’t provide unlocking instructions to any iPhone owner (not even EDGE).
I have no interest in jailbreaking, unofficial unlocking or any of that. I really only want a legitimate GSM iPhone that I can unlock using my carrier’s instructions, and I want it for $200. I don’t mind even signing a 3-year deal for that, if that’s the condition.
Until then, I’ll probably bide my time with the iPhone. If nothing, at least I’m still saving money on that monthly data plan which I’m not paying now…
@Predrag
“…you haven’t seen comments from Verizon fans”
Of course I have, what I meant was, I thought it odd that not a single Verizon customer on these boards has come forward on this particular thread. I thought for sure they would have come out of the woodwork for this rumor.
I must say I am disappointed at the turnout on this thread. Because the Mac forums elsewhere are ablaze over this rumor. There is actually some very good discussion going on out there. I learned a lot about Snapdragon since leaving this thread.
Regardless of all arguments pro and con, I’d just like to say that without a massive re-negotiation of Apple’s contract with AT&T;, this is how the math works out:
2007 + 5 year exclusive = 2012
@grognard
You state; “Verizion is not going to get the Iphone until they get away from CDMA which is what I think they are planning to do in the next few years anyway.”
Sorry, but you are WRONG….. Verizon has already announced they are keeping voice on their CDMA network & moving data to their 4G LTE network (not GSM, a creaky TDMA-based 30 YEAR OLD technology)
Verizon has as a REQUIREMENT CDMA functionality in ALL their 4G handsets…
Besides, Qualcomm already builds ALL 2G/3G standards into ONE efficient chipset (this is what the Blackberries use as well as many other vendors incl. Samsung)
Besides, KDDI in Japan uses CDMA for 3G as well as China Telecom. (both will move to LTE ala Verizon)
So why wouldn’t Apple build in CDMA when it has been shown (in the US in particular) that CDMA networks offer better 2G & 3G performance?
Apple right now is stuck on ONE network in China, as China Mobile uses Chinese-proprietary TD-SCDMA 3G technology with only China Unicom using European 3G like AT&T;.
Apple is also stuck on the USA on only ONE network…. this is KILLING their potential to DOMINATE smartphone sales….
w/o a phone on Verizon, they will NEVER dominate. AT&T;’s network has already been shown to be completely (in the case of 3G) non-existant! Remember, originally, Verizon was Apple’s FIRST choice for operator… AT&T;was sloppy seconds….
@ G4Dualie
You state; “CDMA is dead and LTE will die on the vine because Apple won’t support Verizon’s effort to offer an alternative to GSM. Perhaps that’s a better strategy, kill off LTE by ignoring it and side with the rest of the world to use a single platform like GSM.”
Thank you for demonstrating for everyone that you are a complete MORON!!!
LTE is the ALL NEW 4G standard EVERYONE, CDMA & GSM operators will be upgrading to…. Verizon decided to take the lead! So if Apple tries to make LTE die on the vine as you claim, then 4G dies on the vine for EVERYBODY! DUH!
GSM is a creaky, 30 year old, European technology.
UMTS & HSPA ARE ACTUALLY CDMA TECHNOLOGIES! Duh!
Now that you have shown your TOTAL ignorance on wireless, go back to your cave, w/ your 30 year old GSM phone please…
Here are the reasons folks from Silicon Valley Insider;
Why should Apple make the iPhone available on Verizon?
As we reported earlier this year, it would be ridiculously cheap for Apple to make a CDMA-friendly iPhone. Even switching the current iPhone to a CDMA version would probably cost only a trivial amount. Amol Sarva, CEO of mobile gadget startup Peek, pegs the cost at less than $5 million.
It would be very good for sales. Even though AT&T;has been a hugely successful partner for Apple in terms of overall sales in the U.S., most iPhone subscribers are still coming from within AT&T;’s ranks — despite the fact that AT&T;only represents about 1/4 of the total U.S. wireless subscriber base. There are millions of potential iPhone buyers at other carriers who have not bought iPhones, either because they are loyal to their current carriers or hate AT&T;. Verizon could also probably steal some current iPhone subscribers from AT&T;, given how lousy AT&T;’s data network has performed in key cities, such as New York City.
It would be bad for the competition. Verizon and other carriers are finally now getting (and promoting) decent iPhone competitors, such as the new Droid series powered by Google. But if Verizon were to get its hands on the iPhone, it would probably favor that over the Droid, at least sometimes.
What about waiting for 4G? Even if Apple waits for Verizon’s “LTE” 4G network to be ready, it would need to be able to back up onto a 3G network for several years, for use in places where 4G service is not available or is not functioning. It’s possible that Apple could push that roaming traffic onto AT&T;or another GSM-based 3G provider. But it makes more sense to roam onto Verizon’s CDMA network.
@ben over
you make some very salient points where domination is concerned
how can you dominate when your content with one carrier.
The Chinese, like Microsoft, want to rule the world but their plan is flawed.
I look upon Apple to keep the barbarians at bay. In many respects they’re stuck in the Fifties and are backward thinking but because their citizens are repressed and dirt poor America is reaping the windfall of an ignorant labor pool.
With technology they’ll revolt and find out who they’ve been a slave to and then the blood flood will begin. Civil disobedience will lead to the slaughter of millions and meanwhile the channels will stop. Walmart and its customers won’t know what them.
I say this to make the point that we should never depend on a single source for anything.
Diversity is what makes us great, in China you can get it in any color as long as its red.
I’m tired of the inferior products coming out of china, brought to us by the board rooms of America who have forsaken quality for price, because the money we save is going in their pockets.
We need to wake up to the realization that business has become way more powerful than any democratic government.
Business is not our friend, they have emraced the communist way of life and its own employees earn slave wages compared to what their leaders are raking in.
Apple at least continues to design premium products and though they are rich beyond comprehension and growing everyday, I see them as a force to deal with All the communists in the world, including the most formidible right here at home.
@huge ass
what I was trying to say was ignore verizon’s LTE network and let it die on the vine so you’ll forgive me if I ignore you altogether.
And I’m not going anywhere so park your huge ass ( so man up and register your hugh jass ) k?
I hope everyone here takes the opportunty to read Wireless Exec’s comments.
@Wireless Exec
“It would be very good for sales…It would be bad for the competition.”
Agreed, but I think we can all agree that once the other smart phones have reached parity with the iPhone, the real competition in service can begin.
If every carrier had the iPhone, then the iPhone and similar products becomes the standard and the carrier’s service and support will stand or fall on its own merits.
In other words, the carriers will become dumb pipes overnight, each one jockeying for position to be the best dumb pipe they can be, after which they can begin to differentiate themselves from their competitors by enhancing their voice/data plans, and more importantly, becoming a conduit for the content providers.
Apple has done just that with the Macintosh. They imposed a strict standard for themselves by developing highly interoperable hardware and then proceeded to develop the software, service and support to compliment the hardware.
The formula just works, it’s just that Compaq came along and destroyed the concept of the whole soup-to-nuts-all-in-one-system that was IBM and Macintosh when they reversed engineered IBMs computer and sparked a revolution.
It was easy for Compaq to differentiate themselves from IBM and Apple and broke away from the pack, made it all look easy, using off-the-shelf components to build computers costing half of what the two giants were peddling.
Soon the “IBM compatible” frenzy began and the rest is history. I believe that business model inspired the “Walmarts” of the business world to a race for the bottom over price.
While I enjoy competition like everyone else, some areas in business should refrain from competing at all and work harder to differentiate themselves using Quality is Job One, like Ford continues to do.
Business has become lazy and fixated on differentiate by price, instead of quality. I don’t care what anyone says, but that meme is a death spiral that reduces everything to a garbage that is choking our landfills.
Meanwhile “antiques” are becoming even more rare because everything made today is made of plastic and pressboard.
Hey Steve Jobs, would you consider making a modest cut in your salary, to demonstrate to other CEOs that its not always about the Benjamins?
@Predrag
Okay, heavy subsidies are leveraged to achieve exclusivity, I get that.
But, there is a point of diminishing returns for everyone involved; ATT can no longer sustain the influx of smart phones and Apple’s sales will begin to level off unless they continue to seek out additional revenue streams. ATT customers aren’t using the iPhone to its full potential and we hear the constant barrage of “astroturfing” from those who hate ATT.
At the moment Verizon is hammering ATT over their inadequacies and yet, I get the feeling that if Verizon had agreed to Jobs’ terms and Apple was manufacturing a CDMA version of the iPhone, ATT would be taking cheap shots at Verizon’s inadequacies, while lusting after an iPhone of their own, and we’d be all arguing today about the merits of Apple moving the iPhone over to GSM, right?
All the fanboys here would be flaming anyone who suggested otherwise, am I right? Vodaphone would have become the cause célèbre for Apple fanboys around the world.
As Ben Dover has astutely reminded us, Apple CHOSE Verizon first. One fanboy over at MacRumors has even characterized that meeting between CEOs as one whereby Jobs was laughed out of the offices of Verizon, a lesson which now serves as the chief reason to hate Verizon.
I seriously doubt Verizon was laughing at Jobs. In fact, I believe that from the moment Jobs left their offices, the upper management turned into the tech version of the keystone cops tripping all over themselves as they played back the secretly recorded meeting but before that, Jobs was coming to the sad realization he wasn’t getting anywhere and knew he fucked up by disclosing too much information in order to close the deal. His RDF failed him, in that respect. But as with most things in his life he is impassioned about, he pursued Second to None.
Verizon’s real mistake was clinging to their business model. They didn’t want change their system to accommodate Jobs’ roadmap to the future. The very idea of allowing the “computer guys” to just come in and start dictating how email would be administered was enough to put frighten them away. Verizon will fight to maintain their hands in the manufacture of their products because they’re still in the telephone business.
Apple can no longer command huge subsidies like those he garnered from ATT. Apple will have to reduce prices for each phone to offset the negotiations. Nevertheless, Apple CAN make it up in volume once they have secured all the carriers.
So how much could Apple afford to shave off the price of the phone and still maintain better margins than its competitors?
Can I just say, as a member of MDN, I am not “connected” to the wireless industry and perhaps my ignorance of the facts is woefully apparent but that’s not going to stop me from make forward-looking statements about the direction Apple is headed. I speak from a context that stretches back to the late Seventies. So in that respect, I do consider myself “plugged in” to all things Apple, not unlike many of you here.
I’ve never owned any computer but Apple’s, and what a long strange trip its been.
I am an APPL shareholder and much of my forward-looking thinking could be construed as wishful-thinking but let’s be clear, I live with Apple’s shortcomings, but from where I sit, they’re hardly shortcomings at all because I only have Apple’s performance to use as a barometer. I don’t (not knowingly) compare “apples” to “oranges”, because I’ve never developed a taste for oranges. So I wait like everyone else for Apple to fix what’s wrong and in the meantime there is always a workaround to make my life easier.
Cheers!
smaller screen !!!
NO WAY… if that were true, I’d be looking at all the androids for an anlternative… screen size is CRITICAL
It is fascinating how this MDN forum turns into an intelligent discussion once weekend comes around. During the week, plenty of morons have nothing better to do than chip in with their ignorance; come weekend, the people who actually work during the week take time to exchange some valuable thoughts.
I don’t have much to add here. I still believe that the number of people who would want to get an iPhone but aren’t getting it because it is on AT&T is minuscule and not worth for Apple to pursue other carriers.
Let us for the moment assume that I am wrong, and that, if iPhone were offered on several carriers, millions of new iPhone customers would suddenly appear. Even if that were the case, based on all we currently know, it is unlikely to happen. Apple is stuck on AT&T due to the exorbitant subsidy, as well as the alleged 5-year exclusivity contract.
If the exclusive deal is shorter than 5 years (and some have been implying that it is only 3, which would make it expire next summer), Apple is most likely already crunching some heavy numbers for the next model. A modest hardware bump, which would in turn allow them to bump up the retail price to $250 (together with the reduction of the subsidy to perhaps $300, if the carriers would swallow that) could presumably bring the reduction of profit margins to some acceptable levels for Apple, while opening them up to potentially larger addressable market.
Let’s see how fast the paint dries (see one of my previous posts for reference).
@Gabriel
Unless they announced an iphone that I have yet to hear of…. the newest iphone is the same size as the last one no change at all in the form factor and not thinner.
For those of you who keep saying Verizon won’t get the iPhone because Apple won’t take the time to engineer a phone that does CDMA read THIS.
If Apple uses the Qualcomm chip it’s game over as that chip set will do ALL of the protocols that every carrier uses including LTE.
Now would the Verizon, and other CDMA carriers, naysayers please shut up, thank you.
@predrag
It is fascinating how this MDN forum turns into an intelligent discussion once weekend comes around.
Really? Because I find it’s just the opposite. The weekdays seem to be more reserved because the kids are in school and the adults are left to talk amongst themselves.