“This has been quite a year for Apple, but Steve Jobs’ magic wand doesn’t always work,” Tom Krazit writes for CNET. “In March, Apple unveiled Apple TV, the company’s attempt at tackling a question that has eluded the PC industry for years: how can we get people to watch content delivered over the Internet in their living rooms on their big-screen TVs?”
“Apple has been a pretty good judge of consumer taste of late, but few companies get a hit every time they step up to the plate. ‘That category of devices is so nonexistent,’ said Ross Rubin, an analyst with The NPD Group, which tracks almost every imaginable retail segment. ‘It hasn’t really evolved to the point where we’ve been tracking it as a category.’ As a result, it’s difficult to get a sense of how many Apple TVs have been sold,” Krazit writes.
“Apple doesn’t report shipment totals for Apple TV like it does for Macs, iPods, and iPhones. Revenue from Apple TV is lumped in with a number of other segments on Apple’s financial statements, and it’s also recognized on a subscription basis over a period of two years. But it’s clear that Apple TV is quite a bit lower on the company’s priority list behind the Mac, iPod, and iPhone divisions: Jobs even called it a ‘hobby’ during the D: All Things Digital conference,” Krazit writes.
“There are a lot of popular shows and movies on the iTunes Store, but there are also lots of other sources of video on the Internet. Apple TV doesn’t come with a browser, and high-definition shows aren’t offered at the iTunes Store,” Krazit writes. “There are signs, however, that the long-awaited promise of Internet-delivered movies and television shows is starting to come together as the networks experiment with delivering their shows through their own Web sites. If that takes off, a crippled Apple TV is going to prevent owners from watching a wealth of free content that’s becoming available on the Internet.”
“Until this new model shakes out, cable and satellite companies remain in firm control of the living room,” Krazit writes. “But that doesn’t necessarily mean Apple TV can’t be a success in its current form; it’s not going to replace a set-top box anytime soon, but could it replace a DVD player?”
“The issue here, though, is that the rental/subscription model for movies and TV shows is very much entrenched in the consumer’s mind,” Krazit writes.
Full article here.
As we repeatedly say: Business models that fly in the face of human nature are doomed to failure. It’s not so much, as Kratzit writes, that the rental/subscription model for movies and TV shows is “entrenched” in consumers’ minds as if it were simply a habit needing to be broken. The rental/subscription model for movies and TV shows makes sense. It works best with how human beings interact with such media. People listen to certain songs over and over again; not so with TV shows or movies – such repeat viewings are very rare. We want to buy and own or music and rent our TV shows/movies because we consume each type of media differently.
Apple TV (and iTunes Store, for that matter) – at least when it comes to TV shows and movies – currently fly in the face of human nature. We watch TV shows and movies once; it make more sense for most people to pay a monthly fee and watch what they want. No matter how cheap storage becomes, we don’t want to store episodes of “The Amazing Race” forever. It’s disposable, one-time-only viewing.
Let us subscribe/rent with the option to buy the comparatively few titles we actually want to own via iTunes Store directly from Apple TV, add Safari with wireless keyboard support via software update (so we can go to the network sites to watch shows with ads, if we want), convince the content providers to let you upgrade the video quality, advertise the thing properly, and Apple TV will go from a “hobby” to a real business in no time.
There’s nothing wrong with the Apple TV hardware that a few updates can’t fix.
(Apple TV is already great for sharing photos, home movies, and music with friends and family. It amazed all visitors during the Thanksgiving holiday.)
I want AppleTV to work out for Apple.
I want Apple to invest more thought into AppleTV.
I am waiting for AppleTV 2.0 before I buy one.
I hope Apple doesn’t let it die a slow death like that have with other products they just choose to ignore.
Apple TV makes watching those home movies on TV a real pleasure. That’s why I bought it and what makes it such a great product …for me.
1. Put a DVD-reader in the TV
2. Put a lot of films in the iTunesstore.
what’s wrong is no HD content.
That’s what’s wrong.
Update the Mac MIni to 802.11n, patch some software, and then the real Apple TV will be fixed. For me, at least….
OR
offer an add on with DVD, more hard drive, and a cable card reader for the TV.
And don’t forget the rentals.
My only 2 complaints with Apple TV are the slow response time from when I click the remote till the Apple TV reacts can some times be more than a minute. I think what is happening is Apple has set the HD to power down when not in use. The other is when I go to watch Music Videos I would like an option to play through all the videos not have to select and play each. These could be fixed with an update.
a TV should be a portal to all online content. It should access Joost, Vongo, ABC’s streaming site, etc. like it does to You Tube., As well as rent movies.
Apple, please make the AppleTV software/OS available for the Mac Mini.
I could hook a Mac Mini to my big screen now, but I want some of the cool graphic UI the AppleTV has on it.
Plus, I want some of the new cool Leopard screen savers on the Apple TV too.
also it should stream a DVD playing in your computer. Heck, it could even work as a remote desk top, hook a bluetooth keyboard and mouse up to it, and have full access to your computer from the comfort of your living room
I agree. The only thing wrong the Apple TV is that Apple has not been able to secure a good rental deal with the studios. But if this eventually happens, I think Apple TV will be a hit.
What’s wrong EVERYTHING!!!
Never fear, I believe that Apple is simply staking its early claim to this rich new land of video distribution. They simply need to patiently wait for the ‘others’ to catch up with the prevailing point of view as elucidated by MDN.
Apple is ready at the gate, just waiting to pull the trigger on this flood of video for your hungry eyes.
Hobby, indeed!
Apple TV is really fantastic for music. A great way to sit with friends, view your music library, and get into the groove. Too bad there’s no ‘on-the-go’ playlist from the living room. But if the demand is there, a software update would easily create that functionality.
I know my parents would love to have youtube on their living room TV, however, they don’t have an HDTV and won’t for god knows how many years. I think that’s one of the biggest problems with AppleTV; it requires an HDTV and still only a minority of people with televisions have one of those.
The fact that the AppleTV is the only box that can bring youtube onto your living room television should be its biggest selling point. Apple needs to advertise this aspect more. This is a huge deal, as youtube (especially with the writers strike going on) is set to murder television.
I’m buying one either for Christmas or perhaps after MacWorld Expo. Just incase Uncle Steve announces a new version of it.
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MegaMe: The AppleTV software HAS been released for the Mac Mini. It’s what’s called “Front Row 2.0” in Leopard. It’s exactly the same software that ships in the Apple TV product…exactly. In the Leopard build versions it was even still called “Apple TV” in some places
Four things to fix AppleTV:
1. subscription downloads or rentals for movies and tv, things that you generally only view once
2. HD downloads in 720p24 format for movies and tv
3. Built iTunes into AppleTV, as per iPhone and iPod Touch
4. Rip DVDs to iTunes, to create library, and play via AppleTV
I really think it is a work in progress.
You nailed it Neil!
What would really make me interested is a feature that would allow my Mac to be the interface with my cable company menu in terms of scheduling, recording, renting of movies, buy individual shows if I want, etc.
Make my Mac the focal point.
MDN’s take is spot on.
I don’t want to see a Jackie Chan movie more than once.
I think Apple hubris assumes their customers consume media only through them via iTunes. But they don’t, as their own ‘iPods sold vs songs downloaded’ numbers suggest.
We have NetFlix, Blockbuster, PPV etc etc. With so many options and so many companies vying for our attention, it is perhaps too much to expect one company to pull it all together.
Just another example of how Apple only produces products that make them a lot of money. Since Apple can’t get the content for the device, they will let it die and will offer no explanation. All of us who bought into this device seeing what it could become are a few hundred dollars poorer.
Of course what Apple should do is offer an SDK for developing applications and interfaces for the AppleTV, but they won’t. Very disappointing.
I would have got an Apple TV the day it came out, but I don’t have a good television. In fact I don’t watch much TV, but I do subscribe to a few shows on iTunes.
I then bought a 24 inch iMac and I now use it as my TV (I live in a small studio apt), so I guess I am not going to get one anytime soon.
If I ever move into a bigger place and get a TV I would get an Apple TV in a heart beat.
MN
The Apple TV is merely a place holder waiting for the other players to come to the bargaining table.
Maybe things will move forward more, now that there has been a settlement with burst.com.
Technical issues aside, I just don’t find the hardware looks very appealing — I want it to be as desirable as (say) the iPod nano.
The Apple TV is there for me right now. My hundreds of ripped movies work on my HDTV with just a few clicks.
They are flawlessly served to me in upscaled DVD condition by my Apple TV.
My DVD’s are all in a couple of boxes in the garage.
Kenh: Both ElGato (eyeTV) and ATI (all in wonder) make products that can do just that for your Mac…basically turn it into a subscription-less Tivo.
1. It needs to be opened up. Provide an SDK and a way for developers to do their magic.
2. Apple needs to keep updating the software bundles. Since its unveiling, the only addition is YouTube app.
3. Most of the stuff is done under QuickTime. There are plugins for QT, but you can’t use them in [Apple]TV.
4. It needs contents. People don’t pay that much money to watch YouTube stuff everyday, and the stuff you get from iTunes Store is low definition.
Hate to say it, but Apple should take advantage of all the HD rips floating on the Internet. People do download without license, it’s a fact of life. At the very least, support the formats commonly used.
Here’s my wishlist:
1. a slot loading blu-ray drive 2. 300gb hard drive 3. dvr functions.
If Apple added this along with iTunes store rentals and kept the price the same they might lose money on each one sold but they would sell A TON.
@jltnol
HD content may be a problem but it’s not a standard as of yet.
I have an AppleTV and love it! I have found many uses for it and we really enjoy ours! We watch a lot of movies, be we are also now pulling TV shows off of the Tivo and watch them on the AppleTV. The Tivo TV is being used by my wife and the kids want to watch their shows, I just move their shows from the Tivo through my network and do a quick convert and drop them on the AppleTV. Just one of many uses we have found for AppleTV, great little unit!
Apple TV’s biggest shortcoming is not a failure of the system itself. It is that we are expecting it to unite all of our media and it cannot do that. Nor was it built for that.
The current idiotic HDDVD/BluRay fight (thanks AGAIN Sony) is doing more to harm the market than any perceived failure on Apple’s part.
Apple TV was made for iTunes users to watch their iTunes content our their TVs.
It wasn’t made to replace TiVo, etc..
Use it to watch your downloaded movies, show off your photos, play your music and your home movies. As MDN found, you guests will be amazed.
Apple TV + iTunes Rentals (also available outside US) = The iPod for TV.
With a heavy heart, I have returned my Apple TV to Costco after trying it for a month. I really wanted to keep it. Small footprint, noise free (no fan, absolutely silent), and a non-intrusive design made it an ideal add-on to my living room 47 inch HD.
Instead, it was just collecting dusts. And it does get very warm, as an engineer myself it makes me wonder about the longevity of the product.
But apart from all the other issues already discussed by others (lack of a large library, HD contents, dvx and other media support, no direct access to iTunes store, unnecessary crippled network/internet support etc.), I had a very difficult time with iTunes to synch with the Apple TV, which I consider to be at the heart of its intended functionality.
I’ll offer these specifics:
Downloaded two free contents from iTunes.
Purchased an episode of Stargate SG-1 (season 2, ‘The 5th Race.’)
Tried to synch with Apple TV. 3 Windows XP (SP2) one Linux (FC 7.0) all connected via Linksys router.
Synch was successful on all machines but only temporary.
Each time, it would time out after about 5-15 minutes of long wait.
Disabled screen saver (screen savers really should not drop background synch operation, a PRD bug), but still it would just would not show synch completed.
Worked on it till late, desperately trying to find positives from Apple TV, as I had by then made up my mind that if it doesn’t work by the next normal attempt (both computer and AppTV now connected via wire and not wireless to the router), I’m returning this.
Well, suffice to say, I finally was able to watch Stargate directly from the Apple TV (synched) and the other two shows never made it. But by then, I knew that it is an incomplete device. And I can ill afford a $371 (Costco gave me a $50 discount) that doesn’t do what xBox does out of the box for same price plus more.
I would never pay another dime to M$ (that’s a personal choice), and so no xBox for me. But I’ll wait until Apple TV – 2 if it’s in the works.
One last thing, I have noticed many folks are confused about the functionality of the Apple TV (why pay for TV shows etc.)
Well, let’s consider these: I travel overseas a lot. I would like to stay in touch with certain shows while I’m travelling and would not care for a bit torrent download. Having a season pass for Stargate for $35 or $1.99 for each episode is a decent deal for me. A DVD copy of that alone would be about $1.99 plus storage space, scratch head aches etc.
A colleague of mine appreciates having the entire NFL season pass for about $30, with which he can watch all the highlights directly on his big screen without having to subscribe to Direct TV.
Or have to watch the games in their long entirety.
Just my long $0.02
Now THAT’S how to use Apple TV.
Everyone else just has an “I want, I want” deal going on here.
Now THAT’S how to use Apple TV.
Everyone else just has an “I want, I want” deal going on here.
Now THAT’S how to use Apple TV.
Everyone else just has an “I want, I want” deal going on here.
Now THAT’S how to use Apple TV.
Everyone else just has an “I want, I want” deal going on here.
Now THAT’S how to use Apple TV.
Everyone else just has an “I want, I want” deal going on here.
Answer…simply merge the Mac mini witht the Apple TV and add Tivo-like recording and a wireless keyboard with built-in trackpad. Make it optional to buy a wireless(powered from the TV) iSight camera with a 10x zoom and a TV mountable base for iChat. Make a PIP type interface to work with the TV and heck, why not just make it all work with a 32″ up to 46″ Cinema Display called Cinema TV??
Can someone finally bring the Mac into your living room and replace the telephone and the computer period. We all have wide screen LCD’s…what are you waiting for, Apple?
What’s wrong with it?
I can’t connect it to my current TV.
I will buy one of these after I buy HD TV.
Hardware Changes:
– Add a standard DVD player. This allows legacy library’s of content to be viewed, while the consumer gets new content directly from iTunes. This will instantly position AppleTV as the new type of DVD player. Currently, the consumer does not get this…
– Update chipset to enable full 1080p.
– AppleTV direct connect to iTunes TV and Movie stores
– Software delivers purchase or rental for Movies
– HD content (all movies, as many TV shows as possible). 720p to start is good enough, and works okay with existing bandwidths.
– Connects with existing TV’s (Not just HDTV’s)
These changes, not huge, but incremental, can really set AppleTV sales on fire.
A few million like me that do not have an HDTV, would buy one knowing it works with my existing set, and will work with my future HDTV just fine.
I would like someone to explain just what Apple Tv really does and/or what is should do… I was never really sure!
Also if one has Apple TV are you required to also have the newest apple wireless gear… the one with the same footprint and look of Apple TV?
Didn’t Steve say “think of AppleTV as the DVD of the 21st century”.
My biggest beef (and probably why I haven’t bought an Apple TV yet) is that in Canada we cant download TV shows from iTunes. I dont get why this is the way it is because the shows are aired on the same night on Canadian channels and we get US cable TV and are able to watch the shows on ABC, NBC or whatever. If Apple was able to straighten it out, I would be in.
That was more like your $90 there.
So you bought an Apple TV. Great.
But – you didn’t contact tech support when you had problems with syncing, you’re trying to sync to xp (eurgh) and nowhere linux boxes, you buy the thing knowing that it didn’t play HD and then complain that it doesn’t play HD, you would never pay another dime to Micros**t but have 3 windows computers, an Xbox has better functionality so you bought an Apple TV. On and on and on.
Not one single thing in your post makes an ounce of sense.
Apple TV is not perfect, and I agree with much of what Tom writes in the CNet article.
Apple TV can be better and I on my wishlist for 2008 is a new Apple TV which provides better support for video codecs. The other wish is for a high bit rate support.
I use Apple TV for more than just movie and TV show purchases, it also plays video podcasts QuickTime H.264 and I enjoy using the larger screen to watch my favorite “geek” shows.
Er…
Go to
http://www.apple.com/appletv/
Is it all the turkey that’s making everyone so stinking dumb right now??
Also waiting for version 2.0
…and an apple.ca at par
Thoughts on ATV:
First, it does connect to SDTV. We are using ours on a Panasonic 32″ television. So long as you have component inputs, you can run ATV on it. Widescreen is best, but it will still run squished on 4×3.
Second, in combination with Handbrake and Eye TV, the ATV is really a nice device. We got rid of DirecTV (saving $600/year) and are glad we did.
Third, problem number 1. No HD content (other than trailers and podcasts) are available for the ATV. Why build in 720 output when there’s no content available? Our only HD content is from our Eye TV recordings from our local HD channels transcoded to ATV format (which, by the way, are fantastic).
Fourth, problem number 2. No support for 5.1 Dolby Digital or DTS surround sound. It’s a shame that the ATV has a digital optical output port that isn’t being fully used. Passthrough of DD AC-3 or DTS is a software update away. Come on, Apple!
Fifth, hope for the future. Looks like rentals are coming soon to an iTunes Store near you! Perhaps Apple will package 720/DD/DTS content for us in the very near future.
Sixth, problem number 3. I imagine a 2 hour movie encoded at 720 and with an AC3, AAC (unlikely) or DTS 5.1 soundtrack will come in around 6 or 7 gigs. That will be a rather unpleasant download. In addition, the ATV appears to be unable to take files larger than 4 gigs. Plus, streaming that much information over 802.11n could be a real problem. I hope Apple has sorted all of this out.
Just gotta agree. AppleTV doesn’t have enough, even for me as a Mac user, to justify the price. It needs a DVD player and to be opened up to third parties for video/tv/pvr playback *without* re-rendering via iTunes. I would buy one instantly if it had these features.
Remember, Steve Jobs himself spoke of Apple TV as a side project, like a hobby of Apple, Inc. I’m sure the company’s planning something bigger for the product, and I think things may start to fall in place following the burst.com settlement. Maybe Apple will wait until first quarter 2008, when even more HD TVs will be in consumer homes after the holidays.
Apple TV is a great concept, but doesn’t have enough content yet to support it. Where as iTunes has a great catelogue of music, it absolutely sucks when it comes to video content. The consumer won’t shell out the dough for Apple TV until there’s the appearance of momentuum for video on iTunes, and that day is long off (due to media corporations like Universal). The second problem is that Apple is diluting itself with all of their great products and aren’t keeping some light on new products. As soon as iPhone came around, the AppleTV visibility tanked. It’s as if Apple itself isn’t commited to the platform (Mini-Mac anyone?) The third problem is that Apple can’t use the rip and burn logic as they did with the iPod. If iPod users put 80%+ of their own content on their iPods (and not from iTunes), they can’t officially do that with the AppleTV due to DRM. Could this be the reason for the anti-DRM stance that Steve has advocated? As consumers we haven’t readily achieved the right to copy our own personal copy of a DVD. The only thing one can do with AppleTV is go search on YouTube for content, or do the unofficially supported process of using Handbreak (which wont save time if you want to watch a video).
Rob:
I agree. I can either afford an AppleTV or a new TV, but not both and not for every TV in the house.
I am going with the Mac Mini option since:
• if an aTV 2.0 comes out, I can re-assign a Mini more easily than an aTV
• the hard drive space is not duplicated (Mac & aTV), but only stored once (I know I could stream, but there is a delay on fast forwarding)
• I can get a DVI to composite video/SCART converter cable easily
• it can plug into my existing HiFi Cinema system
• it has a DVD player
• it is super-quiet
• it has no screen
• Leopard has FrontRow that can be set to run on startup
• Leopard can Screen share to it
• it can be used with eyeTV as a DVR or live TV
• it plays games
• I don’t need HD yet (just me)
• it doesn’t get as hot
Content, content, content…
This person is spot-on. When you have limited content, and the content you do have is wrapped in DRM, people won’t see Apple TV as any more of a viable solution than a BluRay or HD-DVD player. It becomes just one more way we’re being locked into a proprietary format to watch content.
The party to blame isn’t Apple, however, but the content providers themselves. They are playing all angles until they see what sticks, and will then push to make that format the standard. BusinessWeek had a great cover story about this very thing a few weeks ago entitled “I Want My iTV.”
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/07_47/b4059401.htm?chan=search
Exactly right on how we deal with different media. I rarely watch a movie more than once, but my four year old rarely only watches a movie only once which is a big reason I bought Apple TV. Between buying off of iTunes and ripping off of DVDs I own I’ve got a collection of my kid’s favorites on ATV ready and easy to access. On top of that, I have my own movies, music, etc. It works slick for us.
@ jg2000:
Actually, it’s not the HD format standard that is in question, it’s the optical storage media (BRD versus HD-DVD). Apple could deliver HD content without the need to side with BRD or HD-DVD.
“People listen to certain songs over and over again; not so with TV shows or movies”
do you have kids?!? no, i thought not….
my Apple TV saved me a bundle, bought one spongebob season and one mythbusters season, rented a few more from netflix, rip to itunes… kids watch the same shows over and over and over and…. bye bye hundreds per month in crappy cable TV bills!
“The only thing one can do with AppleTV is go search on YouTube for content, or do the unofficially supported process of using Handbreak (which wont save time if you want to watch a video).”
think outside the box!
i have a 1 video account on netflix, movie arrives, drop in computer, start rip, go back to life. send the movie back the next day, i get 3 movies a week.
….and i don’t watch them until i feel like it. i don’t feel like netflix is making money while i try find time to watch a film, and i don’t have to watch films until i feel like it.
….and after i watch them, i free up drive space, cause why keep them after i have seen them? i mean if i like it that much i can buy it!
come on people, think different…
@shen:
There’s also the library. Ours has a great DVD selection.
I need an AppleTV with a 500 GB harddrive to keep all my gay porn.
I need an AppleTV with a 500 GB harddrive to keep all my gay porn.
I need an AppleTV with a 500 GB harddrive to keep all my gay porn.
I need an AppleTV with a 500 GB harddrive to keep all my gay porn.
I need an AppleTV with a 500 GB harddrive to keep all my gay porn.
Kids + DVD’s soon = scratched, U/S DVD’s.
Rip DVDs to Apple TV and let kids watch them from a menu.
simple
I have the 160gb AppleTV and I really like it. But it should be looked at as a two prong device.
1) Store those movies/episodes you love and will watch again.
I have the vast majority of my DVDs on itunes but not all of them. There are a few I rewatch so rarely that I’ve put them up.
2) Instant viewing access.
There are episodes of Lost and Heroes that I have missed in the past and went straight to itunes to download. Also, there have been times when I decided to watch a movie and PPV’s listings were awful.
I believe the AppleTV hit’s the nail on the head with the first option but misses the 2nd big time. For AppleTV to be the device it could and should be Instant viewing access needs to be there. Right now it isn’t.
Maybe 800 GB…
Maybe 800 GB…
Maybe 800 GB…
Maybe 800 GB…
Maybe 800 GB…
I’ve got a lot of gay porn, and I’m getting a whole lot more!!!
I’ve got a lot of gay porn, and I’m getting a whole lot more!!!
I’ve got a lot of gay porn, and I’m getting a whole lot more!!!
I’ve got a lot of gay porn, and I’m getting a whole lot more!!!
I’ve got a lot of gay porn, and I’m getting a whole lot more!!!
Okay, that wasn’t me writing that above.
Although I really do love my gay porn.
Okay, that wasn’t me writing that above.
Although I really do love my gay porn.
Okay, that wasn’t me writing that above.
Although I really do love my gay porn.
Okay, that wasn’t me writing that above.
Although I really do love my gay porn.
Okay, that wasn’t me writing that above.
Although I really do love my gay porn.
“That category of devices is so nonexistent”
– so there isn’t a demand yet.
____
“networks experiment with delivering their shows through their own Web sites. If that takes off, a crippled Apple TV is going to prevent owners from watching”
– that said and when occurs could be the BOOM of Apple TV
as it will then express the ability and need by consumers
——-
“it’s not going to replace a set-top box anytime soon, but could it replace a DVD player”
– yes, absolutely. And since the concept of a digital hub, your desktop now becomes the link to converging electronic – the MAC computer is the DVR – as Apple predicted – and Apple TV is the receiver to TV in your living room
—–
“The issue here, though, is that the rental/subscription model for movies and TV shows is very much entrenched in the consumer’s mind”
– with the ease of use, simplicity of connectivity, coupled by the right price – consumers will adapt if they see the light.
—————————-
Apple TV is somewhat like the Newton.
It’s entered the market ahead of it’s time, yet the time seems approachable in the next few days…
I am a little confused.
Which is quite possibly the problem (if there is a problem) with Apple TV.
It seems to me not everyone truly understands this device. I sure the heck don’t.
One does not have to use managed video.
So there is no locking into any format.
One doe not require a high definition tv.
Old tvs do work.
I maybe misinformed here – but I understood the Apple TV unit has a hard drive, but basically content can be streamed from your DESKTOP to the unit.
At the same time keep a library of music, video, etc on the unit itself.
So – if I am right… what is the issue.
Sales. Because consumers are CONFUSED what this thing does.
“We watch TV shows and movies once”
Anyone with a child knows that this is SO not true. Also, there are those adults that watch the same movie over and over as well. If you want to rent, then do something else. If you want to buy, keep and rewatch, you could do worse than AppleTV.
Once you put the effort into an iTunes powered media setup, it really pays off. I’ve got a friend that has over 1.5 terabytes of purchased content, captured (via Tivo) and converted content and P2P (and converted to H.264) content. At any moment, she can pull up every video in their Anime library, most every episode of rugrats, and all of the TV shows I enjoy with the Apple remote. This can be viewed from the AppleTV AND any of their computers.
I’m sure Apple is working on making things easier for the unwashed masses (and it’s currently neither cheap nor terribly easy), but for those who GET it, we’re already seeing the results.
I have older SDTVs that work very well. So no AppleTV for me.
If there was a version for SDTV, I’d buy 2 for my household and 1 for my parents.
Too bad Apple doesn’t want my money!
@Jeano:
Does your SDTV have composite inputs? If so, it’ll likely work with the ATV. Ours does.
What’s wrong with Apple TV?
-No DVD drive.
-Internal HD is waaaay too small
-Too little HD content. Too little good content in general.
-Too few HD TVs in use
-Too few homes with enough bandwidth
-Too much emphasis on iTMS for content
-$24 DVD players at Wal-Mart. At that price, DVD racks are tolerable.
AppleTV is good, but for now it’s too much of a niche item.
“We watch TV shows and movies once; it make more sense for most people to pay a monthly fee and watch what they want.” — MDN “take”
For some things, that’s true. However, many people (judging by the shelves at Fry’s, Best Buy, and other “Buy More” places) buy DVDs not only of movies (which, presumably, they watch more than once) but of television show episodes (same comment).
The real “killer app” for ATV would be:
1. DVR functionality
2. “In-Out” points (for editing out commercials)
3. DVD-RW for archiving downloaded or broadcast/recorded content
…as well as everything ATV already has.
Gotta hand it that fake towertone. He tries really hard. But it is kinda like that Gateway computer up against the iMac.
What’s the point? A wannabe is a wannabe.
Nothing more.
I think the only issue with Apple TV is that I have a Mac laptop…. which seems redundant.
When I get home I pull my MacBook Pro out of my bag and put it down on one of my speakers where I plug in everything (leaving it shut).
I sit on my couch and break out my wireless keyboard and mouse, and change the input of my tv and receiver to the mac.
Sometimes I put the keyboard and mouse away and use the Apple Remote and drop into Frontrow 2.0.
There is no streaming, it can do everything an AppleTV can do, and then some. I keep my 500 GB firewire 800 drive up by the tv too, so it’s backing everything up every hour too and gives me access to any movies or shows I store on there.
I don’t need to encode anything into any other format, I can watch HD content streamed straight from ABC … and with a little fidgeting using the Control-mouse to zoom in a little you can’t even tell you are watching tv from a website.
And I have to think I can’t be that different than most users Apple is aiming an Apple TV at.
I think there’s a conceptual problem with Apple TV. It’s discussed as if it were a stand-alone appliance, when it is really just a peripheral. You never see, “What’s wrong with the InstaTech R700GH-47a Extreeme Printer?”
Make it do what everyone wants and it’s too expensive.
Price it cheap and it’s too featureless.
Tie it to an iTS business model and it’s too restricted.
Free it up and it’s a pirate’s dream projector.
It’s a hobby all right: content; bandwidth; storage space; drm…
…until content pricing reflects video’s transitory demand;
…until bandwidth becomes cheaper and broader;
…until storage overcomes the new data-heavy formats;
…until drm is totally discredited.
Until then, it’s a product place-marker that suits a number of people with Tivos and with a budget/bandwith/timewidth for iTS video content.
Until then there is free-to-air and cable TV, Tivo, hard-drive and dvd recorders, usenet, bittorrent and other p2pware, xvid, dvd/xvid players, dvd-rippers, cd and dvd burners, wireless audio-video senders and receivers, the Mac mini….
The problem for collectors with 1,000+ movies is that demand for a second or third viewing of a movie is very limited – unlike, say, a 3-minute mp3 file. So the device must play music and images too, which makes it essentially a wireless repeater for your Mac’s content. No wonder it remains “a hobby.”
To comment on Wintermute, I used to do exactly the same thing, until I finally got incredibly frustrated that my laptop was not in my lap while watching TV (especially when you are just watching TV shows etc). That precious hour in front of the television can rarely be devoted to only TV watching.
So then I started burning everything to CD/DVD-RW, but that process was too frustrating for the number of failures etc, and my older iMac struggled.
So I bought the 320GB Apple TV, and now the older iMac is basically a torrent downloaded and Visual Hub runner. The ATV itself is also our bedroom stereo, and I do love the monthly run through the new movie trailers.
If I had any wish for the Apple TV, it would be that is could easily support other video formats (without needing to be hacked) like XviD/DiVX. Then I wouldn’t have to spend so long converting for shows I just wanted to catch up on and delete.
Yeah, I could do all this with a Mac Mini etc, but at the time, it wasn’t worth the extra cost and setup. ATV does “just work”.
I already have a TV.
“Business models that fly in the face of human nature are doomed to failure. … The rental/subscription model for movies and TV shows makes sense. It works best with how human beings interact with such media. People listen to certain songs over and over again; not so with TV shows or movies – such repeat viewings are very rare. We want to buy and own or music and rent our TV shows/movies because we consume each type of media differently.”
Unfortunately, the runaway success of DVD in the consumer electronics arena for nearly the past 15 years clearly indicates that MDN is absolutely wrong and has no clue as to what constitutes “Business models that fly in the face of human nature.”
Sorry to be so harsh, but come on…
When DVD was introduced, the existing rental model (Blockbuster, Hollywood Video, etc., etc.) believed that most people had no interest in owning movies, and that people would prefer to re-rent movies any time they wanted to re-watch them. had they (and MDN) been correct, then DVD would have flopped big time.
As it was, DVD was so wildly successful it nearly killed the video rental business. And, as it is, the glory days of those businesses are behind them. If movie rental downloads reach any kind of measurable success, then you can kiss them off completely. Netflix, too.
Clearly, most people preferred to own movies rather than rent them. Which is not to say that there is no market for movie rentals, or that most people want to own every movie that’s available. It’s just that, IMHO, with the success of DVD, people have clearly spoken that they do want to own their movies… or a significant number of them, at any rate.
TV shows, on the other hand, may well be another matter.
The reason that the Apple TV is not taking off is that *completely unlike* the iPod when it was first released, the Apple TV will not play the vast majority of video content which is out there and which people have ripped from their DVD collections and whatnot. And that means Xvids. Do the math…
Huge existing collections of MP3s + Great MP3 Player = $$$$.
Huge existing collections of Xvids + Great NON-Xvid Player = market death.
For Steve Jobs to think that he can take about the best thing the iPod had going for it — that it was made for its market — and somehow achieve the same thing in the video space without following the same philosophy — well, let’s just say that he has to either not really care about this product, or else he’s stupid as spit.
Wish list for Apple TV are
1. Ability to browse the Internet
2. Connect with wireless keyboard
3. View online Free TV content via the Internet
4. Close Caption decoder
It’s just not as intuitive as a computer. Same goes for Wii and PS3, theres a keyboard and a mouse.
The wii has a pointer, which you point to the character, better than the PS3, with a control pad.
But a little remote controls to do things like search youTube… err…
The appleTV should have targeted iMovie users. Make it easy to sync videos and send them off to others either via iChat or even youTube.
I’m currently usint my apple TV as a unit to put photos on… no point placing songs in. I have my JBL creature plugged into my airport express.
As for movies, with the speed that we’re getting here in Australia thanks to the coonan approach of wasting taxpayers money on stupid technology. Theres no point…
If you compare ITMS to cable or satellite, the picture is better, there are no commercials, and it works like a DVR. If you compare ITMS to a retail or mail order DVD store, it is more convenient, more cost-effective. Using a Macbook, a video iPod, an AppleTV, and sharing your library throughout the house, AppleTV makes perfect sense – even if it does not get updated.
Comparing the features of the unit and the menu to other devices WITHOUT having a computer with iTunes and a lot of content on hard drives is only skimming the surface. How many reviewers have 100 movies or 100 TV shows or 300 podcasts or 3000 songs on their PC (or Mac) within iTunes? It is only when you can take the 1,000’s of recordings that you ALREADY OWN that AppleTV ‘clicks’ into place. And yes, this is version 1.0.
I have a friend with a Dual Core Windows Vista Ultimate PC. Do you know how many times he has forgotten to record ‘his’ shows? Do you know how poor the picture is? Do you know what a pain it is to watch through all the commercials? Do you know how friggin’ big the computer is that he has to use to record with? And what a pain it is to get it to output to a TV?
You want to know about Apple TV? Watch CSI live, watch it from a DVR, go buy a past season DVD and watch it, and lastly download it from ITMS and watch it. THEN make your comparison.
I was within minutes of ordering an ATV when I discovered there is no manual loading of content — it has to live on a computer somewhere and auto-sync. I got a mini to store the content — now why do I need an ATV?
I don’t have any problem with Apple TV doing what I need. I bought my Apple TV so that I could share home movies of the kids and photo slideshows with the grandparents on the big screen HDTV. It works wonderfully for that. All my iPhoto and iTunes content are automatically at hand and ready.
I even just imported our 16 year old wedding video VHS tape to my mac and put it in iTunes for the kids to watch. We all got a great kick out of it and the quality was much better than I thought for VHS upconverted twice to 720p.
I already have a TiVo HD and an upconverting DVD player. I don’t need Apple TV to be those devices.
The problem is for $99 more you can get a Playstation 3 that also does everything Apple TV does but also includes a Blu-Ray drive and is a next generation gaming console.
Or from $99 and up you can get a Tivo box which does everything that Apple TV does and includes a DVR.
Or for another $150 or so, you can have an entire multimedia PC that does everything Apple TV does but is also a full PC, has DVR capability and DVD playback capability.
Apple needs to add a DVD/Blu-ray drive or DVR capability or both, or drop the price to the level of a $99 impulse purchase.
Apple TV is just too limited and too expensive for what it does.