Dell plunged 15% to $18.72 in pre-market Inet trading after saying it expected fiscal second-quarter earnings of 21 to 23 cents a share, below the average analyst estimate compiled by Thomson First Call of 32 cents a share, due primarily to aggressive pricing in a slowing commercial market.
The Round Rock, Texas-based Dell now sees earnings of 21 to 23 cents a share for the July period on revenue of about $14 billion.
Current market values:
• Apple – $51,064,500,320
• Dell – $44,447,732,640
MacDailyNews Take: If Dell ceased to exist today – say Michael Dell sold the company and gave the money back to the shareholders – nobody outside the company would care. Another Windows box assembler would simply slide into place and the mediocrity would continue unabated.
Related MacDailyNews articles:
Survey shows big jump in consumer interest in buying Apple Mac; Dell takes steep slide – July 06, 2006
The Wired 40: Apple #2, Microsoft drops to #36, Dell falls off list – June 28, 2006
Dell laptop explodes into flames at Japanese conference – June 21, 2006
Time Magazine on Apple’s 13-inch MacBook: ‘Dell and HP should be very worried’ – June 07, 2006
The Channel Insider: Dell is no Apple – May 31, 2006
Will Dell’s retail computer stores work sans inventory? – May 30, 2006
Dell to open retail stores – May 22, 2006
Dell burned by selling machines at bargain-basement prices last quarter, pain may not be over – May 09, 2006
Dell warns 1Q earnings will miss mark; shares tumble – May 08, 2006
Apple passes Dell in market value – May 02, 2006
The Motley Fool: Apple ‘may be the next Dell’ – April 07, 2006
Dude, you got a Dell? What are you, stupid? Only Apple Macs run both Mac OS X and Windows! – April 05, 2006
Payback? Wall Street didn’t like Apple passing Dell in market value – February 09, 2006
Apple Mac is #1 in European education market, pushes Dell down into second place – February 03, 2006
BusinessWeek: How can Apple be worth more than Dell? – January 20, 2006
Steve Jobs emails Apple team: Michael Dell not the best prognosticator, Apple worth more than Dell – January 16, 2006
Apple now worth more than Dell – January 13, 2006
Apple primed to pass Dell in market value – January 12, 2006
Corporate IT buyers fuming that Apple has Intel Core Duo Macs shipping while Dell and HP wait – January 12, 2006
Financial Times: Dell and Microsoft can never hope to attain Apple’s Mac aura – January 10, 2006
Struggling Dell has lost its mojo while Apple shows rapid growth – November 07, 2005
Apple growing faster with more innovative products, better support than ‘one-trick pony’ Dell – November 01, 2005
IDC: Apple shows rapid growth, holds 4.3% U.S. market share on 48% growth – October 17, 2005
Michael Dell say’s he’d be happy to sell Apple’s Mac OS X if Steve Jobs decides to license – June 16, 2005
Why buy a Dell when Apple ‘Macintel’ computers will run both Mac OS X and Windows? – June 08, 2005
Apple Macs are less expensive than Dell PCs – April 25, 2005
Dell CEO: Apple can’t just have one product and then say they’re the innovative leader of the world – February 22, 2005
BusinessWeek: Rather than dismissing Apple products as fads, Dell should try starting a few – January 31, 2005
Dismissive Dell CEO not impressed with Apple Mac mini, calls iPod a ‘one-product wonder’ and a ‘fad’ – January 17, 2005
Michael Dell owes Apple an apology; Apple up 176 percent vs. Dell’s 13 percent in past 12 months – January 15, 2005
Thank you for ensuring that the Darwin Awards will continue for years to come. Hopefully, you’re procreating as much as possible.
I’m actually an Linux user who wanted to come into the forum and stir up some trouble, but thank you for being so utterly pigheaded as to forward the simplistic argument of “Apple is not substantively different than Dell is not substantively different than … ” My only consolation is that while I spent two minutes trying to see how long you pursued this folly, you obviously flushed the better part of hours away. I’m sorry to the more informed readers who felt compelled to parry your projectile vomiting excuse for argumentation.
Just one question, were you ever booted from your high school speech and debate team, and now haunt online messageboards trying to relive the glory days of sophomore year?
“forward the simplistic argument of “Apple is not substantively different than Dell is not substantively different than … ”
Again one of those useless posts that adds nothing to the debate and misunderstands the original comment.
The original MDN comment was that Dell could disappear and replacing Dell as a supplier would be easy. My comment was that that is true and the same goes for Apple. And so far nobody’s been able to come up with a reason why that’s not so.
Nor have you.
“Linux user who wanted to come into the forum and stir up some trouble”
Great, while I’m still interested in sombody explaining to me Why a Mac can’t be replaced by a PC (Which by the way includes a PC running Linux if that’s the appropriate choice for the job).
“Thank you for ensuring that the Darwin Awards ” … “Just were you ever booted from your high school speech and debate team”
As to the Darwin comment, we all sprung from the apes, clearly you just didn’t spring far enough. Read what was actually being discussed.
Gee with your comments, I now feel like I’m in a battle of wits with an unarmed man.
Replacing a Mac with a PC or a PC with a Mac
Sorry all but this is a pretty silly thread. Both are computers and run programs. One runs every OS you need, the other(s) can’t. This is the main difference.
Second point: there are applications that run only on Macs and others only on PC AND Mac (since a Mac today can run Windows as well).
Malware can run and spread very efficiently only on Windows. Exponential, easy spread is way more difficult on Unix-like platforms.
Being both a Mac and a PC computers the arguments is equivalent – with distinguo – to those claiming it is silly to spend money on a luxurious car as their cheap crap on 4 tires can take them from their jobs downtown to their dormitory crap village on the same road and streets.
Indeed but you miss the point. The real question would be: Can a Mac be substituted with a PC easily and leave the average user as happy and satisfied as before?
You must be blind to think so or never used a Mac seriously before.
This is as well the opinion of all who switched from PC to the Mac that I personally know in my organization. Well over 50 now.
Can you easily take away a Mac from its user and have him or her as happy as before with a PC now? What a ridicule thought!
“One runs every OS you need”
We already established you may Want Mac OS X, but you don’t Need it.
” silly to spend money on a luxurious car “
But what you’re getting is not a luxurious car, it’s one of those kits that tries to make a VW into a Ferrari. Same mechanicals, different packaging.
The owner drives around thinking in his mind he’s in a Ferrari, everyone else sees he’s driving a VW with a different fiberglass body. Mostly they wonder why he even bothered to do the conversion in the first place.
Will that particular owner be less happy if he gets the standard VW back? Probably. Will the performance at any particular “car” task be any different? No.
I can’t believe this thread is still getting posts and SJIOSC is still playing a game where he claims that “we’ve agreed” on something when he’s the only person who’s saying it.
Seriously, you could debate with this guy forever: he’s never going to admit that Apple have ever invented anything life-changing or original (no matter how many patents you show him), he’s never going to change his opinions that there are some things that just work better on a Mac. And he’s never going to concede that adding value to the industry through real innovation (that’s real technical innovation, not finding a way to buy a chipset for 5¢ less) is the way to create a company with long-term value. And he’ll never concede that it takes more “commitment” (financial or manpower) to keep a Windows network compared like-for-like to a Mac-based network, despite all of evidence that says precisely that.
In the words of Oscar Wilde, he’s a man/boy/whatever who knows the cost of everything and the value of nothing. Even worse, he’s labouring under the delusion that if he keeps moving the goalposts of his “debate” (if it can be so described), nobody will notice and we’ll all concede that he’s correct and if Apple went away tomorrow, sixteen million people wouldn’t be inconvenienced because Windows is good enough (the complacent acceptance of dysfunctional mediocrity that is such a trademark of those who worship the cult of Microsoft and their charisma-free monochrome ‘Chief Software Architect’) and their forced migration to Windows won’t be at all painful or expensive.
He does of course fail to appreciate that – if Apple disappeared tomorrow – Microsoft’s past behaviour as an aggressive (criminal) monopolist would undoubtedly resurface (God knows, it’s all thay can do to keep it under control now) which would, in all probability, lead to even lower quality OS software (a frightening thought for anyone relying on Microsoft software in a life-or-death situation), higher licence costs and, ultimately, to a legal showdown that will see the company broken up.
What’s particularly tragic is that – in this person’s head (which appears to be stuck up his own ass) – he’s probably accepted the propaganda that Microsoft has been responsible for all of the innovation in computing. He wouldn’t mind having Microsoft telling him what hardware he can run, what software he can use, collecting information about how he uses his computer whilst controlling how he experiences the future world of entertainment. In short, he probably believes Microsoft is a trustworthy guardian for the future of computing despite the fact that on every major development in IT (plug-and-play, GUI, the adoption of TCP/IP as a networking standard, the Internet, being able to address more than 640KB of memory without using various kludges, the list goes on) they were a day late and a dollar short.
It’s a shame we can’t send him to a parallel universe where Apple never existed, because – no matter how ass-backwards we believe Windows is now – can you imagine what it would be like if Microsoft never had Apple’s work to plagiarise/adapt (delete depending on your POV). Would we be living in a world of DOS 11.0? Would the RS-232c lead be a regular feature in every home in the world. Would anybody have invented the Web? – remember no Apple would mean no NeXT (Tim Berners-Lee’s weapon of choice at the time), would Berners-Lee have even tried to develop what became HTTP/HTML/etc. on a Windows system or even a DOS system?
It’s a shame that SteveJackOffs’ brother didn’t put on one of those extra-large condoms before sleeping with his mother/sister, but that’s the problem of not teaching kids about birth control in school.
“no matter how many patents you show him”
People have showed me one patent, for a touchscreen with an IR proximity sensor. hardly life changing.
“he keeps moving the goalposts of his “debate”
Amazing that you perceive refusing to get drawn down irrelevant blind alleys and staying focused on the original premise as “moving the goalposts”. Moving them yes, but back from where other people tried to take them.
“worship the cult of Microsoft “
yes with comments like:
News Flash: Most Windows XP users are not sitting around wishing they had Vista. It’ll get here when it gets here and won’t change our lives.
And to paraphrase “nobody could care less if Dell vanished”
Oh yes, worshiping, hear that praise, I think Microsoft plans to use my Vista comments in their next ad campaign “Buy Vista, you don’t really need it, and it won’t change your life…”. Yep Right. Worship.
“Microsoft’s past behaviour as an aggressive (criminal) monopolist would undoubtedly resurface”
Don’t doubt it, but that’s not my point. However I believe Apple vanishing would put more scrutiny on Microsoft, not less. See my initial comment, Microsoft’s antitrust guys must just Love Apple for the press it generates about being a viable alternative for Windows, they’d be one of the saddest groups if Apple vanished.
“accepted the propaganda that Microsoft has been responsible for all of the innovation in computing.”
No I haven’t and nor have I accepted the propaganda that all innovation in computing flies out of Steve Jobs Ass.
What I do accept is that most of the “Innovations” in computing come from people other than Apple or Microsoft, and most of the Innovations that many people attribute to Apple were actually invented by someone else, they were just sufficiently ignorant of the origins that they saw the idea for the first time when Steve Jobs started selling it, so thought Apple invented it.
“He wouldn’t mind having Microsoft telling him what hardware he can run, what software he can use”
Again, where with thinking this is a Microsoft love fest. I have products from Apple, ones that run Linux, Ones that run other Unix variants, ones that run Windows CE and ones that run a host of other O/S’s which I use in my daily life. ah yes, and some that run Windows too.
“Microsoft never had Apple’s work to plagiarise/adapt”
We’d be in real shit with respect to Gui’s if neither had Xerox’s work to “Inspire” them. But really, do you think if Apple vanished all GUI work by Unix vendors and Microsoft would stop? I don’t.
“TCP/IP”
I’d credit DOD’s standardisation on TCP/IP in the early 80’s for military contracts, as being a much more significant driver in this area than Apple. Client implementations on desktops just ratified what was already happening in the minicomputer space. and there were a LOT of different 3rd party TCP/IP implementations for DOS/Windows before Microsoft finally integrated a robust stack into the O/S and I’m pretty sure they pre-date Apple’s building one in. So yes, you can have the technology without waiting around for Microsoft to implement it.
“would Berners-Lee have even tried to develop what became HTTP/HTML/etc. on a Windows system or even a DOS system”
If not Windows, he would have used any other Unix box, almost all Unix workstations had windowing GUIs by the 90’s.
As I said, you’re overestimating Apple’s contribution to the world. All the things you mentioned other people invented, Apple just used. That’s the same criticism being levelled at Dell.
And when it comes back to it, even for the sake of argument if we accepted as 100% true your assertion that Apple is the source of all innovation, that every idea in the PC space comes from Apple and even if we accepted that Microsoft would make no forward progress unless Apple sent them a memo as to how to do it, none of it bears on the question as to whether TODAY you can replace an Apple system, continue doing everything you were doing on your Apple with a PC and get on with life.
That’s the question being discussed, and clearly the answer is yes, you can.
“iLife 06 can do this now and is merely awaiting the arrival of HD drives and media (you can still save the HD image on a hard drive and open it in DVD Player). “
Or you can buy a Sony laptop and and start burning Blu-Ray Disks today. Sure it’s expensive, but market leading products usually are. I guess Apple will get around to shipping HD-DVD and Blu-Ray drives sooner or later.
Actually, reading through this is thread is hilarious because the various arguments are – to varying degrees – wildly off the mark.
SJIOSC’s current arguments appear to be as follows: –
1) You may WANT Mac OS X, but you don’t need it (presumably because Windows – the brain-damaged OS of choice for people with no taste – is ‘just good enough’ to take up the slack). What he fails to understand is that, for most Mac users, their choice is that they simply DON’T WANT Windows and that, in a (growing) and significant number of cases, that choice is made based on a history of having used Windows and found it wanting (security, stability, ease-of-configuration, ease-of-use, etc.).
Furthermore, unlike in a corporate setting (the market which distorts Windows’ ‘popularity’), most Mac users are either domestic or SoHo in nature – their ‘choice’ of computer is genuinely their ‘choice’, whereas for the millions of knowledge workers who are forced to live a life of subjugation to Windows and, by implication, their IT support staff have merely had this fourth-rate operating system foisted on them by an unholy alliance of empire-building (and intellectually lazy) CIOs, one-quarter-at-a-time CFOs and mind-bogglingly ignorant purchasing managers.
2) In his post at 6:59pm yesterday, SJIOSC argues…
“But what you’re getting is not a luxurious car, it’s one of those kits that tries to make a VW into a Ferrari. Same mechanicals, different packaging.
The owner drives around thinking in his mind he’s in a Ferrari, everyone else sees he’s driving a VW with a different fiberglass body. Mostly they wonder why he even bothered to do the conversion in the first place.
Will that particular owner be less happy if he gets the standard VW back? Probably. Will the performance at any particular “car” task be any different? No.”
This is a relatively superficial analysis of what constitutes a Macintosh.
The Mac isn’t just the nice design on top of Intel mechanicals – it’s a whole integrated computing experience that is designed to be usable from the get-go by ordinary mortals (who don’t need to computer security experts) as well geekoids. Now, SJIOSC will – of course – say that this position is nonsense and Windows is also all of those things (which is probably 80-90% true), but it’s all a question of degree.
As an example, I’ve recently discovered the joy of installing ShadowBook and VirtueDesktop on my relatively old 17″ PowerBook simply for the fun (and not life-changing) capability of being able to wave at the right-hand side of my PowerBook and for it to change desktop. Now, ignoring the fact that ShadowBook uses far too much CPU on this machine, this amusing little app is made possible by the fact that Apple controls a complete product in both hardware and software terms and publishes the method by which the Ambient Light Sensor works.
Could I have this function on a Dell or a Sony? Only if their R&D function (Dell, R&D – two elements that are rarely seen on the same sentence) implement the hardware and write a complete driver set for it which may or may not be compromised by or conflict with a future Microsoft development or, more likely, the development of some other ISV or OEM.
A trivial example I know, but merely the tip of the iceberg and I’m sure I could offer more examples if I wanted like the fact that iSight output is available to all applications at an OS level (such as Delicious Library) rather than just being a simple webcam.
3) His argument with MCCFR about non-contact touch panels is hilarious: ignoring the fact that MCCFR is wrong and non-contact panels have existed for some while, the key points of interest about the patent is the ability to accept ‘gestural input’ and to display the result in the same screen. Also it would appear that Apple’s patent also implements a sort of pressure sensitivity based on the velocity of some gestures. If all of that already exists then Apple would be nuts to file a patent that will ultimately be challened and lose, but maybe SJIOSC can actually post a URL for a product where that functionality is already available as opposed to slinging brickbats.
As for wearing ‘non-intrusive’ skull caps, that sounds like an attractive option – shall I wear something that will make me look like a geek Frankenstein or shall I just go for technology that allows me to point and gesture? Of course, SJIOSC has already demonstrated that he has no concern for a user/customer’s wants, but only their needs (he’d have been a great member of the Politburo in Soviet-era Russia) – it doesn’t matter that the solution is ugly so long as it’s cheap and functional.
4) It’s an example of how pathetic this debate is when neither side can concede any ground: it doesn’t help when people don’t admit they’re flat out wrong and start chucking xenophobic crap that’s worthy of a schoolyard around.
SJIOSC could make a start here and try and explain why Microsoft have been unable to implement the security that Mac OS users take for granted within the OS, as opposed to requiring customers (many of whom have no computing experience) to choose, purchase, implement and maintain a hotch-potch of security products as a ‘tax’ on their original purchase. After all, if he wants us to accept that Windows is a worthy alternative to a Macintosh he should be able to address our concerns in a constructive manner; if not – he’s just a troll.
“As for wearing ‘non-intrusive’ skull caps, that sounds like an attractive option – shall I wear something that will make me look like a geek Frankenstein “
It was raised in the context of people with disabilities. Would a quadriplegic likely accept this kind of technology to walk again? I think so.
Will it eventually become unobtrusive? Sure. Or will it be built into a baseball cap you have to put on backwards? That would really make people look stupid.
“ability to accept ‘gestural input’ and to display the result in the same screen.”
IR sensing of a finger was used by HP in the 80’s. Pressure sensitive tablets and touchscreens have been around forever, and interpretation of gestures on a touchscreen has been used by every major pen input system ever devised from Go to Palm to Microsoft’s work. So excuse me if I don’t see the “Uniqueness” of this patent. Frankly it was a really BAD one to choose as an example of innovation.
“Apple would be nuts to file a patent that will ultimately be challenged and lose, “
The trend today is get the patent first then let people decide if they will challenge it. Then you have the option, litigate or bail out. contrary to your statement, filing broad patents that conceivably could be overturned is standard industry practice. Overturning a patent can be a difficult and expensive process even if it is meritless.
“neither side can concede any ground”
I’m not sure what more you’d like me to concede about Microsoft, Vista or Dell…
“hotch-potch of security products “
Constructively: XP SP2, Norton Antivirus. turn on the firewall, turn on automatic updates for all products (Which Windows and Norton will basically nag you until you do). Job done, no magic, no mystery.
Both Come standard already on so many PCs. For most Windows users viruses are a complete non issue. We learned how to deal with them years ago. Does it cost you $19 to $29 per year, sure. Do they affect your daily life? No. Anyway, if you hate Windows, run Linux. heck, run Windows under Linux if you want.
“Could I have this function on a Dell or a Sony? Only if their R&D function (Dell, R&D – two elements that are rarely seen on the same sentence) implement the hardware and write a complete driver set for it which may or may not be compromised by or conflict with a future Microsoft development or, more likely, the development of some other ISV or OEM.”
Clearly you’ve never seen all the goofball ways people have devised to control Windows PCs. I don’t see than any of the things you mention are precondition to implementing the same kind of things on a Windows box.
” iSight output is available to all applications at an OS level”
What, you think any App on the PC can’t use the webcam and that system level APIs don’t exist to do that? OK, you are deluded.
“It’s a shame that SteveJackOffs’ brother didn’t put on one of those extra-large condoms before sleeping with his mother/sister, but that’s the problem of not teaching kids about birth control in school.
“
All good points which really help to move the discussion forward. You’re so smart. I wish I was You.
Actually, a former colleague of mine had one of those HP machines and it was absolutely useless. Quite often inaccurate when he was using Cardfile or whatever it was called, he finally had to dump the machine when the IR emitter sub-system, which I seem to remember were scattered around the circumference of the screen, finally gave up the ghost.
Anyhoo…
It’s interesting that you address the periphery of my points without addressing the key elements: you specifically said that Windows security is easy for anyone competent to set up and maintain, and now you’ve limited that to people who have Windows XP SP2. What about the people who can’t download SP2 because they’re on dial-up only – they do exist all over the world.
What about those lucky people who still run Windows 98 or, God forbid, ME. Presumably, your customer-focussed response would be “Go and get a new machine” or “Get a CD from someone”; the former assumes that someone has the funds to do so, and the latter assumes that someone knows that Windows XP SP2 exists. But thanks for playing anyway.
And if you all learned how to deal with viruses years ago, along with all the spyware and the adware, how come services like MessageLabs exist? When you say “deal with them”, what you mean is “pay any number of small incremental charges so that they cease being a problem for that period” – they don’t go away forever, because there’s always someone who lets their Norton/McAfee subscription lapse or assumes that because they’ve got a firewall that they’re safe. Just like there are people who think that just because they have put an identifiable word into their WEP security that their wireless network can’t be hacked.
If you all learned how to deal with this crap, why am I still getting spam from what are so obviously spam bots. Is the OS at fault or the customers? According to you, it’s the customers which is odd because I think the state of Texas might tend to disagree.
Or are you saying that OS level security is over-rated and unnecessary, surely that’s one of the reasons to upgrade to Vista, except we already know that Vista’s been compromised – so after five elapsed years, and literally tens of thousands of man-years of effort and millions of dollars, all we’ve got is a pig wearing a particularly unflattering shade of lipstick. As it happens, you’ll also need to get a bigger pig pen and you’ll still have to buy antibiotics for the pig.
On another point, your response to MCCFR’s BluRay thing is only a relatively recent thing and you probably would have expected Sony to implement a BluRay drive before anyone else, but to compare the bundled DVGate software to iMovie/iDVD is like comparing a Quarter Pounder to a fillet steak, and trying to get anything better starts costing real money.
BTW, looking back, you have no right to get sniffy about the incest/condoms thing seeing as you appear to have let that genie out of the bottle with that pathetic jibe about small condoms going to the UK – what you sow so shall ye reap.
As a humorous aside, I’ve seen the most goofball way that people interact with their PC; I seem to remember it was called Windows
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SJIOSC,
When I asked for a URL of where that functionality exists in a shipping product, I did actually mean all of the functionality in a single shipping product.
Non-contact touch panels do exist – conceded
Gestural input – conceded, although I think you’ll find Newton’s system predates Palm’s bought-in Graffiti by several years.
However a non-contact touch-panel that can understand gestural input as well as somehow understand the amount of ‘pressure’ that is to be applied simply doesn’t appear to exist in a computing environment, and – unless you can point me at a shipping product – I have to assume that you’re blowing smoke.
SJIOSC,
I’ve just noticed that you’re now saying that – if I don’t trust Windows (which I don’t) – maybe I could run it within Linux or maybe just run Linux.
So now what you’re proposing is that I should take my nice clean stable secure OS with its well integrated hardware and software and replace it with some mutant combination of hardware developed to the lowest cost possible, a host operating system that certainly isn’t ready for prime time usage by computing newbies, and a guest operating system that is more full of holes than a road in Southern Lebanon.
You’re beginning to scare me. And not in a nice way.
The Mac experience comes from the marriage of the hw and the OS.
“One runs every OS you need”
We already established you may Want Mac OS X, but you don’t Need it.
Define “Need”
Do you need to do tasks that cannot be done elsewhere? No
Do you need to enjoying doing those tasks easily, effortlessly? Yes
Do you need it to look at your computer and see an efficient, valid, trustworthy tool that actually saves you time? Definitely
Would you get all the above with Windows? Nope.
One thing that for me is absolutely only achievable on OS X and nowhere else, not even Linux. Lunch a task using remote volumes and libraries for data and linkage and not having to wait for it to finish before going home: I just close the screen, go home, knowing that once there, I just need to open the screen and not losing a bit.
Do that with Linux and Windows and you have lost hours of work.
So it is very simple: I could not get this anywhere else than on OS X, hence I do need 100% it and if I was to put Linux or Windows of my MacBook I’ll have a miserable life seeing my colleagues on OS X going home while I am stuck at the lab because the other crapOS do not allow me to dynamically recover a networked configuration from home without rebooting.
Life changing feature? You BET!
@ iPodder >
Please don’t use that kind of logic on SteveJack… because a) it still won’t work and b) he’s stuck in his little world of Windows mediocrity. I suspect that the only Apple product this guy has is an iPod, because he certainly knows nothing about the Macintosh.
He’s just going to tell you that you’re going down a blind alley, because – in all honesty – he doesn’t have an argument that he can make.
He’s as good as said that Vista will not be that big an advance on XP, and yet Microsoft have been working on it for years and still keep taking bits out because they know they can’t deliver. So what he believes is that you can replace a modern, well written operating system that has delivered significant performance and functionality upgrades with each release with a piece of crap that is evolving with all the pace of Continental Drift.
However, because he’s terminally confused, he seems to think that Microsoft is one of the parties driving change in the PC marketplace. How you can drive change whilst not delivering any significant changes to your main desktop product in five years is beyond my feeble brain, but then – because I’m British – I’m apparently very stupid and have a small penis. Gives you an idea of the level of this fsckwit’s mentality that he can dish it out, but doesn’t seem to like it being aimed back at him.
MCCFR, totally agree with you. Till you use it seriously you simply can’t believe it could be that much better. Invariably the comment from all the switchers: they all came back with a comment as “I truly believed you Mac guys were just exaggerating”, “I wished I had done that before”, etc.
Anyway, the above behavior (dynamic reconnect networked volumes and dynamic restart of services and daemons – implying knowing their dependencies – ) is something you can’t have on Windows nor on Linux.
On those systems invariably you lose work, get a crash, hang the system or loose unrecoverably the networked volumes. In all cases the machine needs a reboot and the researcher has lost hours of computations and/or builds.
It changes life and no one would move back to inefficient networking handling. The Mac OS X IOKit object oriented layer is a marvel. It makes for the first time to have a truly portable, mobile Unix platform.
For people just using a computer for FPS games this is nonsense and meaningless. For people doing serious work is being in heaven. If he was to ask them to switch back to Windows or Linux for their laptops he would receive one single answer ” Are you frigging idiot? “
PS
MacBooks are now by FAR the most popular machine around. The environment makes for some 6000 heads working here.
For people just using a computer for FPS games this is nonsense and meaningless. For people doing serious work is being in heaven. If he was to ask them to switch back to Windows or Linux for their laptops he would receive one single answer ” Are you frigging idiot? “
Isn’t that remarkable? Windows users for years have bashed the Mac for being a toy computer because it lacked games and nowadays more and more one realizes that Windows PCs are just expensive toys capable of excelling just at games. Serious jobs on them get undermined and crippled.
Truly a contrappasso law on toy Windows PCs for wannabee geeks FPS shooters to upgrade their machines to get one more fps for their FPS games.
How ridicule.
On those systems invariably you lose work, get a crash, hang the system or loose unrecoverably the networked volumes. In all cases the machine needs a reboot and the researcher has lost hours of computations and/or builds.
According to SteveJerk, these people are not using their systems properly and are incompetent. A sizeable number are also probably British and therefore even more stupid.
Please note that under no circumstances can the loss of work be attributed to flaws in Windows: it is so good in its current state that a) all computing work in the universe can be executed on it, b) migration to Vista will be unnecessary and c) it will increase the productivity of your environment.
The beatings will continue until morale improves
This should be Steve’s motto: you will use Windows until you’re happy with it. Of course, by happy, I mean “willing to tolerate without whimpering into a soggy blanket”.
Just out of interest, where has Steve gone?
It’s been seven hours since his last post – I’m beginning to miss the boy.
“Actually, a former colleague of mine had one of those HP machines”
Guess what, the’ve come a long way over those 20 years. A large number of the ATM machines in service use this type of technology because it can handle the abuse of being outside in the wind/rain/snow, whatever.
“What about the people who can’t download SP2 because they’re on dial-up only – they do exist all over the world.”
1) You buy a new machine, it has SP2 already installed.
2) You buy the upgrade disks today, they include SP2.
3) You ask Microsoft, they send you SP2 on a CD.
“What about those lucky people who still run Windows 98 or, God forbid, ME.”
You really want to talk about 8yr old operating systems, OK, I’ll bite. The Mac equivalent is OS at that point is OS 9. How does an OS 9 customer run all his OS 9 Apps on his nice new Intel Mac? Answer, in case you don’t know, he doesn’t. He goes out and buys new ones. Ouch!. I bet that’s more than the $99 cost of the XP SP2 upgrade.
“But thanks for playing anyway.”
Yep, seems like the OS9 Option is MUCH better. Go Apple!
“a problem for that period” – they don’t go away forever, because there’s always someone who lets their Norton/McAfee subscription lapse”
Yep, well I’m hardly going to hold Microsoft responsible for that. That’s like holding GM responsible if you don’t put your seatbelt on and crash and get hurt.
“Or are you saying that OS level security is over-rated and unnecessary”
No, it’s a good thing, but today it’s just one line of defense. What I am saying is any issues with current Widows versions are not a major practical issue if you take the right precautions.
“ probably would have expected Sony to implement a BluRay drive before anyone else,”
No as an Apple customer I would expect Apple to implement everything before anyone else.
“but to compare the bundled DVGate software”
Yes you get DVGate, Ulead and Premiere bundled and of course the Infamous Windows Movie Maker. Take your pick. If they’re not good enough for your needs, perhaps you do need to be spending money on semi-pro software.
“Quarter Pounder to a fillet steak”
In the case of the Blu-ray drive it’s like comparing a Sony lobster and steak meal to not eating anything, and not going to be given anything to eat for some time. In one notebook you have the drive and can create Blu-Ray movies, with the other you can toss off and dream about the day you’ll be able to.
“BTW, looking back, you have no right to get sniffy about the incest/condoms thing”
Don’t worry, I’m not upset, just pointing out how totally useless that post was.
“As a humorous aside, I’ve seen the most goofball way that people interact with their PC; I seem to remember it was called Windows “
Now that IS a funny reply…
“When I asked for a URL of where that functionality exists in a shipping product, I did actually mean all of the functionality in a single shipping product.”
Given that the patent describes several different ways of doing things 1) using a standard touch screen 2) Using an IR proximity sensor coupled with a standard touch screen 3) using a capacitive proximity sensor coupled with a standard touch screen and a force sensor in the case for the “pressure” component, I doubt any one product would ever implement the whole contents of the patent.
However IR touch screens are in common usage, standard capacitive and resistive touch screens are in common usage, proximity sensing capacitive touch screens have been shipping for several years, pen based touch screens with proximity sensors for over a decade, this is really a “catch all” patent bundling together a bunch of existing technologies and claiming some “uniqueness”. See http://www.elo.com these guys have been in business forever supplying these kinds of things.
And the idea that popping up a control on a screen when you touch or get close is an “innovation” rather than something completely obvious, Please….
“However a non-contact touch-panel that can understand gestural input as well as somehow understand the amount of ‘pressure’ that is to be applied”
Read the patent: they suggest they would be doing that with a proximity sensor coupled with a standard touch screen and force sensor. Nothing magic there.
“I’ve just noticed that you’re now saying that – if I don’t trust Windows (which I don’t) – maybe I could run it within Linux or maybe just run Linux.”
Yep, whatever you prefer.
“Do you need to do tasks that cannot be done elsewhere? No”
FINALLY FINALLY FINALLY. That’s my point.
“One thing that for me is absolutely only achievable on OS X and nowhere else, not even Linux. Lunch a task using remote volumes and libraries for data and linkage and not having to wait for it to finish before going home: I just close the screen, go home, knowing that once there, I just need to open the screen and not losing a bit.”
NFS with it’s stateless protocol has been able to do this kind of thing forever. Windows has too. More likely your App is not responding appropriately to suspend/resume messages to know what to do. Sounds like an App problem not an OS problem.
“because I’m British – I’m apparently very stupid and have a small penis.”
Sounds like a pretty fair summary, yes.
“Anyway, the above behavior (dynamic reconnect networked volumes and dynamic restart of services and daemons – implying knowing their dependencies – ) is something you can’t have on Windows nor on Linux.”
Maybe on Planet Mac these features don’t exist in Windows or Linux. In the real world, they do.
For the above that would be http://www.elotouch.com