“Today Apple sanctioned a dual-boot Mac/Windows OS Mac, and gives end users the tools to create such a set up. Is this the beginning of the end of Apple? Perhaps, but as all this unfolds, I feel a little bit like Apple’s being consumed, via its own choice, by the Borg,” Lance Ulanoff writes for PC Magazine. “With today’s Bootcamp [sic] announcement, we have Apple giving in to an obvious demand. But company reps also made it dead-clear that while they’ve built this utility and made it super-simple to use, Apple has no interest in selling or supporting Windows. Right. They do not want Mac Mini [sic] users calling them up saying, ‘Windows isn’t running very smoothly on my Mac Mini [sic].’ That’s understandable. Why should Apple’s support techs get tied up in a Windows mess?”
“So Apple is simply acting as an enabler, stopping end users from jury-rigging a dual-boot system. But they’re not selling Windows. Until, well, they are. As the Borg were fond of saying, resistance is futile and, in truth, I think Apple has little interest in resisting. Two years from now, end users will probably have the option of buying OSX [sic] Macs or Windows Macs. This second official step in supporting the Windows OS (make no mistake, adopting the Intel CPU was the first) is a seeding phase,” Ulanoff writes. “Bootcamp [sic] marks the beginning of the end for Apple as the renegade for the design set and the beginning of Apple as a dominant player in the global desktop PC game. It will become absorbed. Remember, you heard it here first.”
Full article here.
MacDailyNews Take: First of all, it’s “Boot Camp” (for now), not “Bootcamp.” And it’s “Mac mini,” not “Mac Mini.” And it’s “Mac OS X,” not “OSX.” With those messes cleaned up, let’s look at the rest of Ulanoff’s mess. Apple has not poured hundreds of millions of dollars into Mac OS X in order to dump it in favor of an inferior copy of its own Mac operating system. Ulanoff is nuts if he thinks Steve Jobs wants his life’s work to end running Bill Gates’ Windows. Ulanoff seems to have no sense of the history between Apple and Microsoft, Jobs and Gates. Ulanoff’s ideas go against everything we know about Jobs. Apple has a 30+ year record of resisting.
We believe that Steve Jobs intends to take back the personal computing world from the mediocre (and worse) mess that Microsoft has created. PCs are not meant to be frustrating time-wasters. PCs are meant to allow the user to create things: paintings, spreadsheets, email messages, movies, calculations, poetry, and more. The Mac does it all better than Windows. It’s really no contest, as most of you reading this already know. And now the world can drag their Windows “insecurity blanket” along with them while they explore the better personal computing world that we Mac users already enjoy. If allowing Windows onto the Mac (temporarily, until people wake up) is what it’s going to take, then so be it. It’s time to put up or shut up. It’s Mac vs. Windows. Give them both a try. Go on, we dare you. We’re exceedingly confident – based on experience – that the vast majority who do try both Mac and Windows will pick the superior operating system and software platform. We bet that Apple is exceedingly confident, too.
You want to know what’s really going to happen? Windows-only users will finally find out the truth. Mac OS X won’t be an unknown or secret to them. They’ll experience the difference for themselves. Windows will be booted up less and less and Mac OS X will become for them what it already is for us: home. And then they’ll tell their friends and family members and coworkers and random people on the street. Remember, you heard it here first. How you like them Apples, Lance?
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MDN and its followers are in denial…..the opening statements of the take is quite laughable. Is that the best you can do? Quibble about irrelevant semantics?
History alone has shown the rosy picture painted by MDN theorists is a theory based on flaw and hope. Of course I’m not suprised, MDN thinks Macs create better poetry than Windows. LOL.
OSX is a great alternative to Windows, but it’s nowhere near the pedestal placed on by MDN and its rabid followers. For example, out of Windows, Linux, and OSX……OSX is by FAR the worst for server applications because of the way OSX handles threading. For 64 bit applications, OSX is a 32 bit operating system accessing 64 bit memory space. Only Windows 64 and Linux with 64 bit binaries are true 64 bit operating systems.
Would MDN ever let its readers in on these tidbits?
Concerning the MDN take:
I guess its possible that this is a “shootout” move. The only problem I see is that many Windows users may not tough it out through the curve of learning a new OS and just stay booted in Windows after the honeymoon period with Mac OS X.
I say this because of my experience with my mother who is likely a good example of an average PC user – not super advanced, but she can do more than just basic tasks. I’ve almost got her convinced to go with a new Mac mini Core Duo, but I wouldn’t be surprised if she doesn’t jump right in to Mac OS X. Rather she’ll just play around with it and then stick with what is familiar. This is the same behaviour I think most average PC users will exhibit. I don’t like it or agree with it, but I honestly think this is the most likely scenario.
Hope I’m wrong.
I keep thinking of a couple of conflicting old sayings:
You can’t teach an old dog new tricks.
and
Familiarity (with windows that is) breeds contempt.
“It will become absorbed.”
It’s ASSIMILATED, you dumb motherfscker!
To the other Steve:
Since Vista will also use BIOS the Intel Macs should be able to run Vista as well.
To the other Steve:
Could you please pass my last message on to the Other Mark? Sorry about that. Also, could you please tell him I agree with his take on Vista?
Thanks.
To Wha….
Never had a problem with my personal XP in 3+ years. Runs great, just like my Macs.
In the family are 4 other Xp computers. No problems. Sorry to disappoint you, sorry you don´t know how to operate a Windows computer.
No window´s owner is going to buy a Mac to run windows on it. Unless Apple throws in a copy of XP or Vista with the purchase of a Mac….which I could see down the road happening.
For a start they say it’s gonna be part of Leopard. If they were gonna dump OS X then why even bother with Leopard? They actually say it will be part of OS X, not in addition to, Windows will be like another app in relation to OS X just another thing you can run on your superior Mac machine.
MDN pwned that guy.
“Very few people are moving from Windows to Mac; when Vista comes out there will be less of move – unless Vista just totally sucks and has serious problems.”
There’s a chance Vista WON’T suck and have serious problems? I mean aside from the security issues we should assume will be endemic to the feeble “beast”.
Sammy: I don’t know if you thought of this, but some MDN readers actually get info outside of MDN. Seriously.
Sammy, get a life…
Companies that NEED to run Mac OS and Windows will snap this up!
Why buy from many companies when you can buy from one.
DELL et all the other windows box makers are now crapping themselves.
APPLE is the ONLY company inthe world that will supply dual boot computers. Apple will not licence it’s OS to DELL or any other manufacturer.
So, to summaries – APPLE will have the market to itself.
And the great thing about it is, is that DELL et al cannot do anything about it, they cannot force APPLE to licence it’s OS to other computer makers.
I predict in 10yrs time every enterprise/corporation will be using Macs running OS X.
Windows is dead from today onwards.
From: right
….. some MDN readers actually get info outside of MDN. Seriously.
Ummm …
You’re getting info other than that spewed by MDN?
Please, sir, I’m afraid I’m going to have to ask you to leave.
Own Mac and PC: “No window´s owner is going to buy a Mac to run windows on it.”
BWAAAAHH-HAH-HAH-HAH-HAH-HAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!
Are you SERIOUS?
As my father used to say, “You gotta be SHITTIN’ me!!”
So, not ONE . . . NOT ONE . . . user will buy a Mac and run Windows on it???? Not ONE purchaser will buy a Mac to run Windows . . . and then SEE what the fuss is all about with OS X????
You truly are full of yourself if you believe what you wrote. It will INDEED happen, and it WILL HAPPEN IN SIGNIFICANT NUMBERS from Apple’s perspective.
Man oh man I gotta save this thread for posterity . . . so I can laugh in the faces of smug dicks like you.
I am flabbergasted that anyone would take seriously the idea of Apple ditching Mac OS X for Windows. So all the problems with Windows, the instability, the poor design, the horrible security, everything that is pushing more people to the Mac every day… None of that matters anymore?
What a joke!! You’d have to be on crack to think that’s Apple’s future. I could come up with a dozen reasons why Apple going Windows would be a stupid idea, but why should I have to? It’s utterly freaking retarded to even consider the idea in the first place!
OK – so what will be the most requested feature that the end user will eventually want as part of Boot Camp?
—> Click here to delete your Windows Partition…
Own Mac and PC:
The only way that you would not have seen a single problem with any of these systems is if the only thing you installed on them was the default operating system without any of the garbage software that the manufacturers send along with their PC or if you as a routine re-install your system every nine or so months.
In my experience, any PC that is left as it comes from the vendor (Dell, HP, etc) will experience an issue sooner rather than later.
I have heavily used every version of Windows from NT to 2003 and except for 2003 all of them have serious flaws that may not show up one, two or even nine months into their use, but all of them ALL of them will within 18 months give you some sort of issue. Again, unless all you install is what comes with a default install of Windows (IE, WMP, etc.).
Any heavy Windows user no matter how capable will encounter issues with their system either via the software or the hardware. I have used Dell, eMachines, Toshiba, Compaq and HP desktops, laptops and servers and all of them have given me issues (well, except for my Windows 2003 server, but that is because I re-installed the OS before I put that puppy to work) well within 18 months of purchase. The Toshiba laptop was pretty good as well until I upgraded it from Windows 98 SE to Windows ME…then, game over man…
Broken keyboard keys, RAM is bad, LCD goes foobar, PCMCIA slots are no longer recognized, countless video driver issues (especially when upgrading to a new version of Windows), numerous question marks in the hardware section of the System control panel, domain to workgroup and workgroup to domain user login issues and lost data, Office decides to forget where the Clip Art is found, you tell the system to make IE inaccessible and yet it comes back again, same for Windows Media Player and Outlook Express and then you have to re-install and on and on and on.
Now, you may be right that Windows users aren’t going to buy a Mac to run Windows on it, but you certainly paint a way too rosy picture about having five XP systems that have never given you ANY trouble. C’mon think hard, I bet there has been at least one little tiny issue with all of them. Maybe the dreaded one were IE or Outlook Express do not remember your password even though you click on the “Remember Password” checkbox? No?
If not, then you are a very lucky person…you should play the lottery…actually, not having problems with your PC may mean you are already a winner.
I think a lot of people are kind of missing the point on this. I don’t see this as something that is going to swing the majority of users either way. It’s the same tactic Apple used with the Mac mini.
Critics were complaining about the cost of Apple’s computers. So, Apple comes out with a computer under $800, the mini. The masses aren’t swarming on it, but it shuts the critics up..
Critics complain that it won’t run windows, So Apple now says you can dual boot. Critics can’t use this as an excuse anymore either.
It’s not the common user who is going to be eating this up, it’s going to be the 10% of us you need this kind of computer. The Power users. The people who want the best of both worlds.
As for everything else Apple is doing, think Pages, iWeb, iMovie, iTunes, etc…. They are all simple applications that get the job done (Nothing a power user is really that interested in) Then look at their Pro apps, Aperature, Final Cut, etc. Apple is hitting everyone from all sides and pretty soon the critics are going to run out of things to complain about and then they’ll be left to actually take a serious look at Apple and Mac OS X.
Sammy:
You are correct about server performance and the threading issues. Rumors have it that OSX 10.5 will fix the threading issues.
As for the 32-bit OS running on 64-bit hardware part, In pre-Intel Appleland that is a non-issue. The Finder and underlying OS doesn’t need to be, nor will they really benefit from being, 64-bit — so long as the OS can address the 64-bit memory space. And that is the true beauty of the G5.
Windows 64 and Linux with 64 bit binaries are true 64-bit operating systems because inferior Intel hardware requires that that they MUST be to avoid running in 32-bit emulation.
AMD has a 64-bit system that currently blows Intel away, but compared to the G5, that’s not saying much.
But we got the Roadmap!!! Performance per watt!! Oh boy!!! Now every Mac owner will be able to kill the zombies at full native speed. According to the roadmap, life will be good.
Microsoft would like to take the opportunity to thank each and every one of you for your enthusiastic endorsement in growing Windows Operating Systems and application software to now include the Apple hardware space.
Your continued support in growing the Windows installed base and vast ecosystem of Windows applications and software will provide customers with a unified experience regardless of underlying hardware, while removing the limited application choices experienced with non-Microsoft platforms.
Microsoft Sales
I want near native virtualization. Dual Boot will tie me into our windows crap culture at work….
This is going to work as a one-two punch, with the second one being 10.5 being able to run windows apps.
All the people who are missing the point of this endevor by Apple Computer, inc need to go back to school.
Steve is a genius and probably thought this out a long time ago. Who is going to be attracted to the Mac through Boot Camp?
1) Windows drones who are still running Win98, Win2000 are sick of MS crapware, spyware, virus files, etc. but were too scared to leave Windows.
2) Windows drones who were “surprised” by the latest delay in Longhorn/Vista and are sick of waiting.
3) Open-minded computer users who have heard good things about Mac OS X, iLife, etc. but were scared to leave Windows.
4) Power-users who want a machine that does just about everything and does it fast.
5) Consumers with more disposable income who can afford much better machines for a little more money.
Where does this leave Dell, HP, Gateway, etc? They will duke it out with each other at the low-end where Apple does not want to compete and where there is little money to be made; sure, Dell sold more stuff than ever last year, but its profit margins keep shrinking year after year. They will be relegated to selling re-branded electronics (televisions, speaker systems, etc.) where Sony, Pioneer, JVC, etc. already dominate. They will find it harder and harder to distinguish themselves from each other, and Apple will take advantage of this through its unique products and technological prowess.
No, Apple isn’t going to take over the world tomorrow, but they are going to kill off a few PC makers by 2008.
Here’s the deal. Forget who’s operating system is better. That argument is a lost cause (even though Tiger blows the doors of Microsoft’s ONLY available consumer OS, which is XP). But let’s forget about that and just make it simple. If Dell, HP, Compaq, Sony, etc. puts up their equivalent to a standard Mac, with the same features, the price is virtually close enough to be considered a wash. Not enough either way to argue. So, why not get a machine that runs both systems. If you are a PC owner, you already have your copy of XP to put on the Mac. It doesn’t cost a thing. And don’t say anything about illegal copies, because that’s exactly what will happen. The price of hardware is the same, and the software is basically free for both Operating Systems. So why wouldn’t you check out the Mac? What do you have to loose? It’s not like Macs are ugly, or built crappy. This is what “many” (not all, but many) PC users will narrow it down to. Cost and quality. Since cost, quality, Mac, and Dell are an equal investment, the difference will be the Mac running two Operating Systems. That’s when many WILL give it a try. They won’t have to “switch”, as Apple’s campaign formerly states. There is NO SWITCHING anymore. It’s just buying another manufacture’s machine, period. There is NOTHING a PC user has to give up. They just buy a machine that conveniently comes with 2 Operating Systems. When the smoke settles, and the PC user sees that no harm was done, that’s when word-of-mouth will become an avalanche. Give it 2-4 years and Macs will be outselling the number one PC maker today!
Some people think this is a dumb move by Apple. The argument goes that now software developers will not develop for the Mac, since Windows versions will now run on the Mac.
Well, the other shoe is about to drop. How much longer before the Yellow Box for Windows shows up? Then developers can simply drop their Windows code and develop only for the Mac! If Mac software development is easier than Windows, then why not? Then all of Mac applications can be ported to Windows with a simple recompile. (When that happens, the naysayers will say that there is no reason to buy a Mac any more, because you can run iLife on Windows––but that is a story for another day.) And how much longer before Darwine allows Windows apps to run on Macs?
Increasingly, the boundary between operating systems will get blurred. With virtualization, you won’t even need to dual-boot.
With a level playing field, Macs and Windows can compete directly.
And the best operating system will win…!