By SteveJack
“Apple Computer Inc., the maker of the Macintosh computer and iPod music device, on Wednesday rolled out [Boot Camp, software designed] to run Microsoft’s dominant Windows operating system on its [Macintosh] PCs, a move that could draw millions of new buyers,” Reuters reported today. “By enabling the move to Windows, the world’s No. 1 operating system, Apple hopes to draw people who want Macs, considered by many as easier to use and more stylish, but prefer the Windows operating system.”
The Reuters quote above is typical. People who’ve never used a Mac are about to get a wonderful and shocking awakening. Nobody “prefers” using Windows outside of the Ballmer household – and that’s because the Ballmers are brainwashed. I’m not targeting Reuters here, I’m using their quote as an example of a mindset held by many, many people.
People who have never or hardly used a modern Macintosh have no idea what they’re missing. Because their idea of a “personal computer” is a mediocre Windows box that causes frustration and fails to inspire, these Windows-only PC users cannot figure out why people buy and use and extol Macs. Loving their computer is such a foreign idea to them that they are forced to jump through mental hoops to explain it all away. Mac users are “fanatics,” “cultists,” and worse. Anything, but the real reason, for that would mean they made the wrong choice: Macintosh is better than Windows.
Now, millions of people in the market for a new PC have a new choice: buy a Dell or HP or Sony or anybody else’s PC that only runs Windows or buy an Apple PC that runs both Mac OS X and Windows. Why would anybody in their right mind buy anything but an Apple Mac?
Millions of Windows-only users will now get to see for themselves what they’ve been missing. We all know what happens when people really try a Mac. They want to use the Mac and they dislike using Windows more and more. Eventually, they figure out ways to use Windows as little as possible or stop using it altogether.
As Mac market share gains come, and they will come, software developers will notice; so will Wall Street.
Today, Apple dropped a hydrogen bomb on the Windows hegemony. Nothing will ever be the same. Immediately affected will be the box assemblers like Dell, HP, Sony, Toshiba, Lenovo, etc. Eventually, Microsoft itself will feel the pain as people naturally gravitate to booting into Mac OS X and realizing that Windows is dreck and they can do without it. Today, Apple changed the world, yet again. Hang on, it’s going to be a wild ride!
SteveJack is a long-time Macintosh user, web designer, multimedia producer and a regular contributor to the MacDailyNews Opinion section.
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Related articles:
Reuters: Apple’s new ‘Boot Camp’ could draw millions of new Mac buyers – April 05, 2006
Apple shares surge over 6-percent in early trading on ‘Boot Camp’ news – April 05, 2006
Apple introduces Boot Camp: public beta software enables Intel-based Macs to run Windows XP – April 05, 2006
Mike K
Firstly both don’t cost $1200 bucks. The Dell costs $800-1200 bucks. The Mac costs $2000 bucks.
So that’s why there is a discussion on value.
I don’t think we’d be arguing too much if we were comparing a $1200 mac with a $1200 Dell and they were the same in all major specs.
1) I don’t know if you’ve looked around recently, but a 1″ thick 5.6 pound notebook just isnt that special any more. My current notebook is 0.8″ thick, has a Core Duo processor and weighs 3.2 pounds. Tell me again how a Mac is a more elegant hardware design with a straight face.
2) A commonly put forward justification which is just plain wrong. Buy Norton Antivirus, install it, stop worrying, Don’t use antivirus software and yes you will be in a world of pain. There is a Price on that Data security, $29.95/yr…
“Mac OSX has been free of malware and virus attacks. Whether this will change in the future is unknown,”
Let me make the prediction for you now. It is known. It will change.
3)We covered the software argument earlier with the fact that anyone who has Office at work can use it at home free, and that Microsoft does bundle most of those other utilities too.
4) it’s only called value if that feature is useful to you. If not it’s just an unneccesary expense added to the price of the unit. As I said, some people are happy, it seems to pay that $1200 premium for OS X. Most don’t seem to be.
“I can assure you that if Microsoft sold hardware and software systems as Apple does, they would not have a 90% marketshare”
Right, you’re making my point again for me. Apple’s business model is wrong, at least if they want to be in the operating systems business long term rather than just shipping Windows on their PCs.
“Apple could have stuffed their laptops and base model Mac minis with cheaper less-powerful processors and components and added $ to the profit margins, but again… Apple is not in the commodity business.”
Wrong again, x86 processors and systems built on them are a commodity. Apples now use commodity components across the board. Do you really think it costs Apple too much more to have an x86 motherboard built than it costs Dell? Do you really think different, special, Apple only Intel processors and hard disks and LCDs and memory go into these machines? Apple will also be betting on the rapid price drops of all components. PowerPC was at a dead end for notebooks. Apple had to finally think different and move to Intel.
Why,
Again, you skipped over all the pertinent arguments I made as to why a Mac is a better value and went straight to a hardware comparison while using a $800 starting point for a dell and an exagerated $2000 price tag of a top tier iMac which is actually $1699 for the 20″ model. I suppose the saying is true “Ignorance is Bliss.”
see here for iMac prices :http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wo/0.RSLID?mco=1570F73B&nclm=iMac
Mac mini’s start at $599, iMacs start at $1299, MacBook laptops will reportedly start at $999 and MacBook Pros start at $1999.
If you compare any of these Macs with an EQUALLY EQUIPPED Dell, I can guarantee that you will find all of Apple’s prices are within a $100 range.. Let me clarify, I AM NOT SAYING that Apple is the cheapest you can find. I am saying that Apple is competitively priced and for all of my previous listed reasons a BETTER VALUE.
OSX, iLIfe, Award winning form-factors and design features, better software integration, OSX Security, lower total cost of ownership, significantly less user admin time required, significantly higher re-sale value, Boot Camp, and competive pricing to a comparably equipped PC all add up to one conclusion that only an idiot could ignore… MACS ARE A FAR BETTER TOTAL VALUE.
Regarding security, Why says “Let me make the prediction for you now. It is known. It will change.”
That is pure speculation.. Based on facts, there are over 100,000 documented exploits to the Windows platform that have cost millions of dollars and countless hours, loss of productivity, loss of data, and frustration for corporations and home consumers.
For five years and counting, there have been ZERO exploits that have affected OSX.
Are you really so hard-headed to ignore the value of this?
Why says “Right, you’re making my point again for me. Apple’s business model is wrong, at least if they want to be in the operating systems business long term rather than just shipping Windows on their PCs.”
Your fooling yourself if you actually believe this.. Apple’s growth potential is enormous, significantly moreso than any other computer manufacturer. It is really amusing that you have so much faith that Microsoft will maintain it’s dominance in the OS battle forever..
In a recent consumer survey (I will look for the link on the MDN archive,) Microsoft was rated a #2 on a scale of 1-10 (1 being the lowest) for consumer distrust and brand loyalty.. Consumers are not happy with Microsoft, they are not trusted..
I mean be realisitc, Windows is in trouble.. Vista has been in development for FIVE YEARS and just months before it is supposed to be released gets delayed again and needs to have 60% of it’s code re-written by early 2007.
We were discussing LAPTOPS.
That’s where the $800-$1200 vs $2000 is relevant.
I did compare and it is listed above, the equivalent Dell is $1200 or $800 if you accept small compromises on specs. Not the $100 you claim.
If only an idiot could ignore this, including the TCO comments, how come 96% of the world are wrong, and 4% are right. I guess almost everyone but you is an Idiot, right Mike?
But since you want to look at desktops too, here it is:
Apple $1699
20-inch widescreen LCD with 1680×1050 resolution
2.0GHz Intel Core Duo with 2MB shared L2 cache
512MB (single SO-DIMM) 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM
250GB Serial ATA hard drive
Slot-load 8x double-layer SuperDrive
ATI Radeon X1600 graphics with 128MB GDDR3 memory
Built-in AirPort Extreme and Bluetooth 2.0
Vs DELL model 510 $1069
20 inch screen with 1600×1200 resolution
Dual core 2.8GHz Pentium processor, 800 MHz frontside bus
1GB SDRAM (Sorry can’t drop it to 512 for Apple comparision)
250GB 7200 RPM SATA Drive
16xDVD ROM And Dual layer 16xDVD +/- RW (Sorry can’t get anything as slow as 8x or only a single drive for Apple comparison)
ATI Radeon X300 with 128MB video memory.
I’m assuming for now the better specs of the Dell (Extra memory, twice as fast DVD writer, 2nd DVD drive) make up for lack of Bluetooth/WiFi financially – but if you don’t agree, add $19.95 to my price for each of Bluetooth and WiFi.
So $100 different? really. Doesn’t seem to be so…
Yes, you do get a large separate box to place under your desk with the Dell, But you do get a smaller monitor on top of the desk.
If that’s worth $630 to have everything in one box, fine, your money…
Perhaps Apple should include a calculator app to help the likes of Mike K add up system prices…
There you go again, skip over everything except for an un-equal hardware performance configuration and then use the top tier iMac at $1699 vs. a Dell 510 with a Pentium D at $1069… Ha! Lol! Nice try buddy.
BTW. Apple does include a calculator app, they don’t however include a common sense app which apparently you are in desperate need of.
“It is really amusing that you have so much faith that Microsoft will maintain it’s dominance in the OS battle forever..”
I did’t say that, I said it wouldn’t be Apple. I do have faith that Apple won’t be that dominant OS vendor so long as Apple pursues it’s closed box policy. As I said earlier in the posts, put OS X on cheap Intel hardware, then we’ve got a horse race…
“Regarding security, Why says “Let me make the prediction for you now. It is known. It will change.”
That is pure speculation.. “
Not pure speculation, Reality. Macs are sitting there now protected only by the thought that Mac OS is invincible. And years of hacking has shown that no OS is invincible. Telling me I need to go buy a bulletproof vest is kinder compared to leaving me with the false belief that I’m invincible.
“For five years and counting, there have been ZERO exploits that have affected OSX. Are you really so hard-headed to ignore the value of this?”
There have been ZERO explots in that time on any of my personal PCs because they sit behind firewalls (software and hardware) and run antivirus software. So you are proposing that by changing to MAc OS X I would defend against a problem which doesn’t affect me. That has a value, it’s about zero dollars.
“Apple’s growth potential is enormous”
Agree, if they can get prices down its concievable they could double or even triple their market share but that’s about it. Under their current business model, they can never be the “New Microsoft” and get 90% Sorry, Reality.
People assume Microsoft has to ship Vista quickly? Why? XP’s selling just fine. You will see this pattern historically with Microsoft when they have strong competitors nipping at their heels, they tend to do things quickly (sometimes too quickly). When they don’t have strong competitors they tend to take more time and their products are better for it.
Why says ” I do have faith that Apple won’t be that dominant OS vendor so long as Apple pursues it’s closed box policy. As I said earlier in the posts, put OS X on cheap Intel hardware, then we’ve got a horse race…”
Agree with the first sentence. Strongly disagree with the second sentence. Apple’s closed box policy is the very reason they’ve survived and have been able to constantly innovate as long as they have. Apple is profitable, VERY profitable. Putting OSX on cheap intel hardware would kill every competitive advantage Apple has over the WIndows oem vendors. The only computers in the world that can run OSX and Windows… Again, Apple is a complete systems company, not a software company.
Why says “There have been ZERO explots in that time on any of my personal PCs because they sit behind firewalls (software and hardware) and run antivirus software. So you are proposing that by changing to MAc OS X I would defend against a problem which doesn’t affect me. That has a value, it’s about zero dollars.”
If you speak the truth, then you are definitely in the minority.. Even so, you are still affected with constant maintenance, system slow-downs, and anti-virus costs.
Why says “Agree, if they can get prices down its concievable they could double or even triple their market share but that’s about it. Under their current business model, they can never be the “New Microsoft” and get 90% Sorry, Reality.”
Let’s hope that Apple NEVER become the next Microsoft. Remember, Apple sells more than just a $199-$299 software license, they sell the whole system… Because of this, every one percent marketshare that Apple gains represents more than 2 billion dollars in revenue by selling complete systems.. That’s a whole helluva lot of money for an already extremely profitable company.. Makes me very happy to be an AAPL shareholder!
Why says “People assume Microsoft has to ship Vista quickly? Why? XP’s selling just fine. You will see this pattern historically with Microsoft when they have strong competitors nipping at their heels, they tend to do things quickly (sometimes too quickly). When they don’t have strong competitors they tend to take more time and their products are better for it.”
Umm… Excuse me, Did you just say SHIP VISTA QUICKLY? It’s been in development for FIVE YEARS and now 60% of it needs to be RE-WRITTEN.
Anyway, my point is going off topic, I’m not saying Apple will take over Microsoft. I’m saying Macs are hands down superior machines, and an all around BETTER VALUE.
Why: “Gordon, to read the post as you did and to respond as you did says more about your attitude towards homosexuality than anything else. Slimy Bottom, because the word Gay is used in a post, c’mon what kind of redneck are you?”
Excuse me, but you have clearly taken my statement out of context. The term “slimy bottom” was not used because you mention “gay” people. Rather, it was used because you thought that bringing up some people’s sexual predilection was appropriate in the context of the dicsussion between yourself and Stegg. I have nothing against heterosexual, homosexual or bisexual people… I am no bigot. “Slimy bottom” was used to refer to your thoughtless reasoning in so distorting the discussion, something that, from my observation, appears to happen more regularly with Windows users than Mac users.
Gordon you say:
“I am no bigot. “Slimy bottom” was used to refer to your thoughtless reasoning in so distorting the discussion, something that, from my observation, appears to happen more regularly with Windows users than Mac users.”
So you are a bigot, prejudiced against Windows users…
Oh Well thanks for that clarification.
” The only computers in the world that can run OSX and Windows… Again, Apple is a complete systems company, not a software company.”
And that’s what limits their potential.
“If you speak the truth, then you are definitely in the minority.. Even so, you are still affected with constant maintenance, system slow-downs, and anti-virus costs.”
Antivirus cost $29.95/yr hardly going to break the bank.
Constant maintenance, What maintenance? again, I dont have a problem with that, nor system slowdowns.
If it were really such a pain in the butt and OS X was such a logical alternative don’t you think corporate IT departments would be defecting in droves? Well they’re not.
“Let’s hope that Apple NEVER become the next Microsoft. … Makes me very happy to be an AAPL shareholder!”
Well really as a shareholder you should want the companies you invest in to make best use of their assets and make smart business moves. If you wouldn’t like any company to own to achieve 90%+ market share, then exactly what would you like it to do?
Ad as for smart choices, Apple moved to Intel because they realized that PowerPC was a strategic mistake (After moving to PowerPC after realizing 68k was a strategic mistake). Now the’re moving to Windows (I mean allowing Windows to run on their machines, sorry my bad, got to bring the faithful along slowly…)
“Umm… Excuse me, Did you just say SHIP VISTA QUICKLY? It’s been in development for FIVE YEARS and now 60% of it needs to be RE-WRITTEN.”
Read again, I said they really don’t have to.
“I’m saying Macs are hands down superior machines, and an all around BETTER VALUE.”
If you say so, but most of the rest of the world have voted with their wallets and see better value in Windows.
Why: So you are a bigot, prejudiced against Windows users… Oh Well thanks for that clarification.
Twist it and ignore my point how you will, I gave no opinion, I simply stated an observation.
Whys says “And that’s what limits their potential.”
Wrong, it’s the very reason they have currently have the potential and resources that they do to take back some market share gains..
Why says ” Antivirus cost $29.95/yr hardly going to break the bank.
Constant maintenance, What maintenance? again, I dont have a problem with that, nor system slowdowns.”
Hmm.. just checked pcconnection prices..
Norton Antivirus = $39.95
Norton personal firewall = $91.95
Yearly costs = $29.95
Oh yeah, a netgear hardware firewall hubs go from $99 and up..
Add those costs to your cheapo Dell…
System slowdown is inevitable running virus software.. What maintenance you ask? Ha ha ha… you’re joking right?
Why asks “If it were really such a pain in the butt and OS X was such a logical alternative don’t you think corporate IT departments would be defecting in droves?”
No for two reasons.. 1. it would mean layoffs for corporate IT depts. and 2. Apple has evolved into a consumer based comany. They are not a commodity driven company and have not been targeting the enterprise markets with low-cost bare-bones boxes ever since Jobs returned in 1997.
Why asks “If you wouldn’t like any company to own to achieve 90%+ market share, then exactly what would you like it to do? “
As a stock holder I look for a company that constantly innovates, creates new markets and revenue streams, and most importantly shows enormous growth potential… Apple is all of those things… I bought at $29 pre-split and needles to say, I’m a very happy camper..
And BTW, Apple already has a product (system) 80% marketshare with iPod/iTunes (one of it’s new revenue streams.)
Why says “Ad as for smart choices, Apple moved to Intel because they realized that PowerPC was a strategic mistake (After moving to PowerPC after realizing 68k was a strategic mistake). Now the’re moving to Windows (I mean allowing Windows to run on their machines, sorry my bad, got to bring the faithful along slowly…)”
COMPLETELY WRONG. Apple with Jobs in charge is a company that’s not afraid to take risks.. PPC was not a strategic mistake, it was the right move at the time, just as Intel is the right move at the right time now. Apple has just made the smartest choice ever by creating all applications with Universal Binaries which are processor independent.
Why says ‘Read again, I said they really don’t have to. “
I don’t have to read again, I understand what you said.. My point is that no one ever said that Vista has to ship quickly, but five years is excessive by anyones standards… Especially when it was originally promised in late 2003. It’s now 2006 and again has been delayed until 2007 and a 60% re-write is in order..
Vista is a clear sign that Microsoft is in decay.. They are still a behemoth of a company and won’t be going anywhere soon, but the signs are all pointing to a company in trouble.. Management is in disarray, empolyees are un-happy, consumer satisafaction, trust and brand loyalty are at an all time low and their flagship product is dropping features like flies and is more than three years late..
Why says “If you say so, but most of the rest of the world have voted with their wallets and see better value in Windows.”
Actually, most of the rest of the world hasn’t voted at all, they use Windows because that’s all they know… But trust me, that’s changing fast.. Apple awarness is up, BiG TIME!
Take a look at this paragraph from an Appleinsider article today:
“The popularity of Apple Computer’s Safari Web browser continues grow at a noticeable pace this year, with recent market share figures pointing to an over 75 percent increase in usage over the past twelve months. During the same time period, Microsoft’s Internet Explorer saw its market share slip over 3 percent.”
Proof is in the numbers and they are all going up.
http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1677
“Wrong, it’s the very reason they have currently have the potential and resources that they do to take back some market share gains..”
Can’t you agree with my position that they can make significant gains but still have a limited potential. The two are not mutually exclusive.
“Norton Antivirus = $39.95”
$59.95 for 2 yr subscription, straight from the Norton site, or about $29.95/yr
“Norton personal firewall = $91.95”
No-one really needs this the Windows built in one actually works pretty well.
“Oh yeah, a netgear hardware firewall hubs go from $99 and up..”
So Don’t buy a netgear, buy a $37.99 one from Linksys, yes you can pay two or three bucks less, but I prefer Linksys. personally I’d pay the $59.95 for a wireless access point + router from Linksys, (only matching Apple product is $129, moor features sure, if that’s what you want from your firewall) but that’s just me, you can get a wireless router for about $39.95.
“Add those costs to your cheapo Dell…”
Done, still much cheaper and you’re going to need a wireless router with your Apple anyway.
“System slowdown is inevitable running virus software..”
Only when you’re reading files, and then it might use a few percent of one of my CPUs.
“What maintenance you ask? Ha ha ha… you’re joking right?”
Nope, tell me some of the things I should be doing.
“No for two reasons.. 1. it would mean layoffs for corporate IT depts.”
Yes but they could always get jobs flying the black helicopters.
“and 2. Apple has evolved into a consumer based comany. They are not a commodity driven company and have not been targeting the enterprise markets with low-cost bare-bones boxes ever since Jobs returned in 1997.”
This was more a matter of those customers abondoning them than any strategic decision to leave them. iPod’s not a commodity product? Who are you fooling?
“And BTW, Apple already has a product (system) 80% marketshare with iPod/iTunes (one of it’s new revenue streams.)”
Look for my posts above as to what Apple’s doing right with iPods vs what it’s doing wrong with PCs.
“COMPLETELY WRONG. Apple with Jobs in charge is a company that’s not afraid to take risks.. PPC was not a strategic mistake, it was the right move at the time, just as Intel is the right move at the right time now.”
Forcing big costs on your software development is never a smart thing. Apple lost a lot of developers with the 68k->PPC switch and will loose more with the PPC->Intel switch especially now that vendors are able to target Mac and PC customers with the same software.
“Apple has just made the smartest choice ever by creating all applications with Universal Binaries which are processor independent.”
Wow, my hands are so big man, look, my hands are sooooo big, Hey I’ve got an idea lets make independent binaries, the developers will love testing on two platforms, wow man do you see the colors…
Why says “If you say so, but most of the rest of the world have voted with their wallets and see better value in Windows.”
Yep, corporate IT departments are so dumb that they don’t even know that Apple exists. People who wander into Comp USA are so blind that they just walk past the Apple displays, pick up a PC and walk out, yep. you might be right, or you might be reality challenged. I wonder which. I think most consumers and IT departments know about Apple and choose accordingly.
“The popularity of Apple Computer’s Safari Web browser continues grow at a noticeable pace this year, with recent market share figures pointing to an over 75 percent increase in usage over the past twelve months. During the same time period, Microsoft’s Internet Explorer saw its market share slip over 3 percent.”
OK, read that chart again, it said Safari share went up 0.75% when you quote the statistics that way it’s hardly impressive.
In the same time Firefox got more new customers than Apple’s entire browser share.
“Twist it and ignore my point how you will, I gave no opinion, I simply stated an observation.”
Get real.
Why asks “Can’t you agree with my position that they can make significant gains but still have a limited potential. “
No, because what you consider potential for Apple (licensing OSX to oem vendors,) is what I consider corporate suicide for Apple. I feel confident that as long as Jobs is in command, OSX will only run on Macs.. Licensing the Mac OS is what nearly drove the company bankrupt in the mid-nineties… The first thing Jobs did when he returned as CEO was take back control of the Mac OS and vowed to never license it again..
“Done, still much cheaper and you’re going to need a wireless router with your Apple anyway.”
Assuming the average lifespan is 4 years for a computer. Anyway you look at it, you will spend in the range of $200-$400 to keep a PC protected.. ($30 x 4 years and a firewall)… $0 cost for Mac. You can deny the admin time required for updates and patches till your blue in the face, but I know the truth.
“iPod’s not a commodity product?”
No. The iPod is a huge product, but it is not a commodity product.. To this day, the iPod is still the best-designed, most intuitive and easy to use digital player avalable.. Much like the Mac and OSX.
“Apple lost a lot of developers with the 68k->PPC switch and will loose more with the PPC->Intel switch especially now that vendors are able to target Mac and PC customers with the same software.”
Umm, check your facts.. Apple currently has more developers on board and comitted to OSX than they have in their 30 year long history? Even gaming developers are jumping on board… Why? Because Macs sales are growing at 3x the rate of the rest of the PC industry and Mac marketshare is increasing.
” I think most consumers and IT departments know about Apple and choose accordingly.”
I’m sure you do, but so far, you have not come across as much of a logical thinker.. As I said, the proof is in the numbers. And the numbers show that people are switching… That’s why Mac sales are growing 3x faster than pcs.
“OK, read that chart again, it said Safari share went up 0.75% when you quote the statistics that way it’s hardly impressive.”
Actually, it’s very impressive. It’s 75% growth in a one year period.. Remember, Apple is selling more than just a $199 software license, they are selling a complete system which is significantly more profitable..
A 0.75% increase in Safari usage means more Mac users. And more Mac users means increased marketshare. And every one percent increase in Mac marketshare means 2 billion dollars in revenue.. That is very impressive indeed.
Why: “Get real.”
Go ahead… have the last word. I’m done with this.
Why asks “Can’t you agree with my position that they can make significant gains but still have a limited potential. “
OK, but taking your facts to be true:
Apple cannot license Mac OS X because doing so would be suicide.
But no single vendor is likley to achieve domination of the PC hardware marketplace, 15-20% share is exceptional.
Therefore Apple can never be a Microsoft with 90% plus market share.
Therefore Apple’s potential is limited compared to Microsoft. QED.
“Done, still much cheaper and you’re going to need a wireless router with your Apple anyway.”
Assuming the average lifespan is 4 years for a computer. Anyway you look at it, you will spend in the range of $200-$400 to keep a PC protected.. ($30 x 4 years and a firewall)…
$0 cost for Mac.
Only $0 cost for a Mac because you’re living in dreamland. And the same router protects multiple PCs, at $120 + $34.95 how do you possibly get to $200 for 4 years, much less $400? Check that calculator app. Stop pressing the PC->Apple price conversion button.
“You can deny the admin time required for updates and patches till your blue in the face, but I know the truth.”
Yes, and the truth will set you free.
Patches download quietly in the middle of the night, and automatically install themseleves. Actually I turn the auto install off since I prefer to approve them myself but still let them download. To say that the automatic patching substantially interferes with anyone’s month is just balony.
“No. The iPod is a huge product, but it is not a commodity product..To this day, the iPod is still the best-designed, most intuitive and easy to use digital player avalable.. Much like the Mac and OSX.”
You can be all those things and still be a commodity product, as the iPod is.
“I’m sure you do, but so far, you have not come across as much of a logical thinker..”
You can’t seem to grasp even the most basic business concepts, and seem somewhat distanced from reality. Those things combined probably skew your understanding of what logical thought is. Keep trying though. You might get the hang of it.
“Selling more than just a $199 software license”
Nobody pays Microsoft $199 for an OEM Windows license…
“they are selling a complete system which is significantly more profitable..”
A lot more revenue maybe, higher margins, no.
Which would you rather have, 41 billion of revenue and a 47% net margin or 13 billion of revenues and a 13% net margin.
Admittedly neither’s too bad a position to be in, but we all know, you want to be the latter company, not the former. Wouldn’t be my choice.
“That is very impressive indeed.”
Impressive until you compare it to Microsoft, Dell, or HP or Lenovo…
“Go ahead… have the last word”
Sure. here it is. In this exchange with you I felt like I was in a battle of wits with an unarmed man.
Why says “Therefore Apple can never be a Microsoft with 90% plus market share. Therefore Apple’s potential is limited compared to Microsoft. QED.”
I never argued that I wanted Apple to be another Microsoft. I said Apple has enormous growth potential and that Macs are a far better value.
Why says “Only $0 cost for a Mac because you’re living in dreamland.
Actually, I am quite awake thank you.. I’ve been using Macs for 15 years and in the time have spent $0 dollars on security. I am connected to the internet 24/7 with no antivirus software, no firewall, no system slow-downs, no viruses, no spyware, no malware, no security threats, and no money spent. ZERO. NONE. ZILCH.
And the same router protects multiple PCs, at $120 + $34.95 how do you possibly get to $200 for 4 years, much less $400? Check that calculator app. Stop pressing the PC->Apple price conversion button.”
Okay, it doesn’t sound like math was your good subject… I’ll break it down for you.
Antivirus software =$39
Yearly fees $30 x 4 years = 120
Norton Personal firewall software = $99 (optional but recommended)
Firewall hub =$99
Total = $357. I quoted between $200-$400 for variances in pricing and products used.
Why says “You can be all those things and still be a commodity product, as the iPod is.”
Using the classic definition of “commodity,” you are correct. However, in the computer and tech world, commodity products have come to be known as mass-market products that use the cheapest components available with little thought to design, poor functionality for a bargain bin price.. Much like most products by Dell, Hp, and the rest.. The iPod is not those things.
Why says “You can’t seem to grasp even the most basic business concepts”
Do you mean your concept that Apple should abandon their business model of selling complete systems? The very business model that affords them the ability to deliver a complete end-to-end user experience and has afforded them to consistently innovate, and has put them in a position of enormous growth opportunity? Or do you mean the concept that Apple should license OSX to oem vendors and give up one of it’s greatest advantages over the competiton so that they can sell a $129 copy of OSX so it can run on cheap Dell boxes? Yeah, that sure sounds like a good idea coming from the guy who says that OSX “adds no value” to a Mac. Ha. ha. lol.. You’re funny!
Why says “Nobody pays Microsoft $199 for an OEM Windows license..”
What crack are you on buddy? Anyone who buys a copy of Windows is buying a license to run the Windows software. You don’t actually own the rights to Windows, you own the rights to use it. That’s called a license.
Why says “A lot more revenue maybe, higher margins, no”
Again, Apple is a different business model than Microsoft. Stop comparing them. Apple has extremely respectable profit margins.
Why says “In the same time Firefox got more new customers than Apple’s entire browser share.”
What exactly do you mean by customers? Every Safari user is an Apple customer because it means that a Mac was sold.. However, every Firefox user is not a customer, it just means they downloaded a free browser.
Why says “Impressive until you compare it to Microsoft, Dell, or HP or Lenovo…”
Actually it’s more impressive than the above mentioned. For browsers, Apple is up nearly one point, while Microsfot is down three. For revenue, Mac sales are growing 3x faster than Dell, HP and Lenovo… As I said, very impressive indeed!
“I am connected to the internet 24/7 with no antivirus software, no firewall, “
it is not smart to run systems on the internet that way, even if you truly beleive their OS is secure, because history has shown that no OS is secure in the long run. The concept of firewall plus OS security is called defense in depth and should be implemented by anyone even if they believe their OS is bulletproof.
“Antivirus software =$39”
That’s covered in the $30 a year, How many times do I have to say it.
Yearly fees $30 x 4 years = 120
“Norton Personal firewall software = $99 “
As I said, not required, not even recommended.
“Firewall hub =$99”
Why Why Why go for the expensive solution rather than the better $39.95 solution. Trained to do so by years of Apple purchsaing I guess. Personally for my money a Cisco/Linksys router is better than a Belkin.
“Using the classic definition of “commodity,” you are correct.”
Oh Finally got through on that…
“Do you mean your concept that Apple should abandon their business model of selling complete systems? The very business model that affords them the ability to deliver a complete end-to-end user experience and has afforded them to consistently innovate, and has put them in a position of enormous growth opportunity?”
Chuckle. After 30 or so years of being in business Apple is finally “poised for a great growth opportunity”. Is that now, or 30 years from now? After 30 or so years in business Microsoft dominates it’s market and it’s CEO is the world’s richest man who is not a head of state. Gee I wonder who were the better innovators and strategic geniuses, at least measured by what the market as a whole thought.
“Why says “Nobody pays Microsoft $199 for an OEM Windows license.. What crack are you on buddy?”
Reality Crack. The kind of crack that lets me know when I was a system builder we paid much less than $199. You surely don’t think that $199 of each $299 Dell is going to Microsoft. OEMs don’t pay retail for the product. Well, clearly you think do. That just shows a complete lack of any understanding of the way any sort of business works, y’know you buy/build stuff for less then the price you sell it for, when you’re a huge OEM customer, you don’t pay anywhere near retail for your O/S…
“respectable profit margins.”
Apples are respectible. I said that. Microsoft’s are outrageously high. I know which I prefer.
“Mac sales are growing 3x faster than Dell, HP and Lenovo… As I said, very impressive indeed!”
Yes, if you calculate in terms of growth as a percentage of existing market share, you get a big number. If you calculate it in absolute terms, not so impressive. Dell looses/gains a point or two without even blinking.
When you start low, the only place to go is up… Another basic business concept. When you have tiny share, large growth is easy, but it tapers off and stops. I don’t disagree that Apple can grow, said that lots in the preceeding posts. Can they dominate with their current strategy? Never. you seem to be saying that’s fine with you, so sounds like we fundimentally agree.
And finally:
Who in their right mind would rather be the 4% company that got 1% more share rather than the 90% company that lost 3%, and that only to a Free browser, not the product they actually sell. You I guess…
Before I begin yet another reply to your comments in which you turn everything into a “but Microsoft has more money and a 90% marketshare” type of response, Can I please make one thing clear?
I DON’T DENY that MS makes more money and has a 90% marketshare! It hasn’t been the point of any of my arguments, so why do you keep coming back to it?
So back to it….
Why says “That’s covered in the $30 a year, How many times do I have to say it.”
Forgive me then, I suppose I am not seasoned as you in knowing the fees associated with providing security for a poorly designed operating system with more holes than a slice of swiss cheese.. But as I said, I quoted between $200-400 based on variances in pricing and products used.. According to you, a baseline price would be appx $160… It could also easily be double that.
Why asks “You surely don’t think that $199 of each $299 Dell is going to Microsoft. “
Absolutely not.. I understand the concept of retail and wholesale, I was simply quoting the retail price as a consumer… But you are missing the whole point of my original statement.. I was saying that 75% growth in a one year period is very impressive. Even more so considering that Apple is selling a complete system which costs between $600-$3000, siginificantly more than a retail $199 XP pack.
Why says “Yes, if you calculate in terms of growth as a percentage of existing market share”
That’s the only way there is to calculate growth.. Where you started divided by where you’re at now equals percentage of growth.
Why says “Dell looses/gains a point or two without even blinking.
You really are on crack. Dell has the largest piece of the pie of any Windows vendor with a 16% marketshare. They’d do a hell of a lot more than blink if they lose a point of two. Wait, let me re-phrase, I mean WHEN they lose a point or two.. Thanks to Apple, when is coming soon!
“I DON’T DENY that MS makes more money and has a 90% marketshare! It hasn’t been the point of any of my arguments, so why do you keep coming back to it?”
Only because you seem to think making less money and having less market share and having lower margins is a GOOD thing.
“Forgive me then, I suppose I am not seasoned as you in knowing the fees associated with providing security”
OK, Finally on that one.
“I was saying that 75% growth in a one year period is very impressive. Even more so considering that Apple is selling a complete system which costs between $600-$3000”
Ok lets just say for a minute that Apple and Microsoft make that whole amount, which we accept that they don’t, so please nobody argue with that, and use their company wide margins which are not also exact for each product line so lets not argue with that either. Even if you mess with any of those numbers a bit, doesn’t change the basic premise.
Microsoft has $199*.47=$93
Apple has $600*.13=$78
Apple has more revenue, less profit.
Or $3000*.13=$390
15 times the revenue, only 4 times the profit.
Again a lot less impressive than the difference in raw numbers would suggest.
“That’s the only way there is to calculate growth.. “
My point is that large growth from companies with small market share is not as impressive as the same percentage growth from a company with large market share. It’s much easier for Apple to pick up another 1% of the whole market than for Dell to pick up another 5% of the whole market. In all cases the growth rate would be about the same, but as you get bigger maintaining that same growth rate becomes more and more difficult.
“Why says “Dell looses/gains a point or two without even blinking.”
To clarify my point on Dell was that they can gain or loose a few points in the market without fundimentally changing their strategy in any way, not that they don’t celebrate when they gain and get pissed off when they loose.
Gartner puts Dell at 16.5% share, IDC at 18.1% both with a half percent or so decline since last year.
If you split the difference between IDC and Gartner and say 55 million units total were shipped, and take Apple’s own number of 1.11 million macs shipped, then Apple sold about 2% of the PCs (In unit terms) that were sold in this quarter just gone. It’s always DANGEROUS to look at a single quarter, but also sometimes instructive.
So Apple themselves say they sold 4% more computers this quarter compared to same quarter last year.
And putting that in industry terms, using the numbers above, if the industry grew 13% and Apple grew 4%, then Apple actually lost 0.2% share of the total market, or a 10% decline in share from where they were this quarter last year.
Yes your unit sales can go up yet market share go down.
People are too stubborn…
The best antivirus for the normal consumer = AVG
It’s free, uses barely any resources, and runs almost like nothing is even there.
http://free.grisoft.com/doc/1
Even if you JUST ran that and no firewall(aside from maybe one in your router because most people have routers nowadays) you would be completely fine.
All PC problems come down to advertising. XP runs on over 90% of computers. All the hackers see that and that is their goal is to inflict the most damage, therefore making a virus for OSX is futile anyways. All the thousands of companies looking to make money also take the bigger market and make crappy programs ridden with spyware and advertising crap. If you actually notice the fact that some software and ‘tools’ are made with a main goal of money instead of safety, which 98% of people who use email know about due to limitless spamming, then you would think….hmm I should think about this and pick the programs that don’t have all that crap in it. People are lazy though and don’t like to do any research. They see that Norton comes with their computer and say hey it must work so i’ll just buy it.
Anyways, this is ridiculous, this argument will go back and forth without many valid facts by people claiming Apple has a stronger business model by limiting themselves to 5% of the market share. Sure they’ll remain the safest OS but until they reach over 30% market share or everyone uses them in corporate networking, hackers won’t have any incentive to even try and viruses for them.
I can tell you for sure that I would buy OSX if it was released with full backing by Apple for any x86 machine. Until then I’ll just be using my $200 intel machine for OSX because I’ve got cars and other fun stuff to spend the other $1600 on.
I got converted last summer with just using the bottom of the line macmini(256 ram.. 32meg radeon), only thing i miss on the mac is games
as for the OS, i can only say i’m more familiar with windows but that doesn’t mean i like it more, I’m willing to learn to use osx
oh yeah, i know 3 of my friends hopped over to macs recently and they’ve been using windows since they first learned how to use 3.1
i’m seeing this windows on intel macs thing as something for people who are on the fence on choosing between oses and i don’t really see why anyone would go back to strictly windows unless they’re using computers for some purpose Apple totally ignored on their macos