“I have certain misgivings about Vista resembling Mac OS X. With its translucent windows, such comparisons are going to be hard to avoid. But Vista’s similarity with OS X goes well beyond window dressing. Certain applications, such as Calendar, Sidebar, and Photo Gallery, appear to be directly, ahem, influenced by similar applications in OS X. Microsoft has a response to that claim, which I’ll reveal in part 3 of this review, but suffice to say they’re going to get eaten alive for these similarities,” Thurrott writes.
Thurrott also claims, “Of course, Windows Vista is still Windows, and that means you can be far more productive with Vista than is possible with OS X, especially if you’re a heavy keyboard user like me. Virtually all of the familiar Windows keyboard shortcuts work just fine in Vista, and since the system is basically laid out just like XP–with a familiar Start menu, taskbar, desktop, and folder structure, most users will be able to get right to work.”
MacDailyNews Take: That assumes you’re a Windows user for life and you’re incapable of ever unlearning keyboard commands for the bad copy of the old classic Mac OS that is Windows and learning the more productive Mac OS X way. That’s way too big an assumption for us. Familiarity doesn’t breed productivity; it helps, but it doesn’t trump a thoughtfully-designed UI in the hands of a power user. That way-too-big finger stretch from the command key in Windows to any letter key is just one example. On a Mac, it’s done right, with the command key more centrally-located, right next to the spacebar. On WIndows, you have to perform feats that would make Stretch Armstrong proud. Multiply that by thousands of other Windows UI mistakes and the end result doesn’t equal “far more productive.” Windows wasn’t designed to be more productive for the user, it was designed like an upside down and backwards Mac in an unsuccessful attempt to avoid triggering a lawsuit from Apple.
Talking about the 6-8 new Windows Vista versions, Thurrott continues, “it’s too confusing. One thing Apple gets right is that you get OS X, and you’re done. There’s only one version of the OS (well, there’s a version for servers too, of course) and Apple doesn’t try to bifurcate the market with a bunch of silly versions, most of which offers certain features not found in other product editions. It’s inane.”
Full article here.
MacDailyNews Take: Anyone who claims Microsoft is an innovator with Windows only need look at Apple’s OS release dates versus Microsoft’s throughout history. On every single day of the last twenty-two years (Macintosh debuted on January 24, 1984), Apple’s operating system UI was first, ahead, and leading the way and Microsoft copied it later – usually poorly. But, hey, there’s always one exception, so thanks to Microsoft (or whoever thought it up first) for that Mac OS X Command-Tab thing that we never use.
[UPDATE: 10:27am EST: Revised first “Take” description of Mac command key location on keyboard.]
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Turd-rot is still turd no matter what he says.
There have been PRODUCTIVITY studies with Windows vs Mac in the past and every single one of them I’ve read finds that users doing the same tasks on a Mac are more productive. Just another factor into the hidden cost of using Windows.
You don’t need command-tab. Just hit Command-option-shift-Q. All your apps quit (gently, with save reminders, not Forced) and your account logs out.
iMaki
You are full of it! The Start button is the worst aspect of Windows! It’s way down in the left hand corner for one thing, and how stupid is it that you have to go to the “Start” button when you want to turn off the computer. How counter intuitive is that! I use XP Professional at work, what a steaming pile of dung! So much repetitive keyboarding that I’m getting RSI, I’ve never felt pain after a session on my Mac.
The one thing I miss on newer Macs is the Power button is no longer on the keyboard, I could just tap it once and then choose to restart, sleep or shut down. Quick easy and intuitive, the Mac way.
http://daringfireball.net/2003/10/commandtab
For anyone interested in a free system add-on that combines the functionality of command-tab with Expose, check out Witch (MXNT 4.1 mentions it above). Witch allows you to cycle between all open documents (not just apps) with an interface similar to command-tab (but it is up and down, not left and right). You can set any keyboard combo to activate it that you want. Oh, and did I say that it’s free?
Scott,
You can cycle between open Firefox tabs via the keyboard. I think it is command-option-arrow key (left or right). If that isn’t it, keep trying keyboard combos – you’ll find it. I’m currently at work suffering (as I do everyday) with an XP box, so I can’t know for sure what the combo is, but there is one.
Cubert
Command-W is much more intuitive than ALT-F4. Really.
Because “W” is the first letter in the English word “Window.”
“F4” is related to “window” how?
Function keys suck, they should have gone away decades ago, except bad software keeps using them.
At least Apple has put useful functions, like brightness and volume, on their function keys.
On Windows, they just suck.
Function Keys are great, especially in Quark for bringing up Palettes. In my experience, Quark has been the single most compliant developer in regards to making tremendous use of key commands — for anything from showing and hiding palettes, bringing up indispensable programming boxes, to straight out command application.
The Finder is awesome because it’s anything you want it to be — provided you know what you’re doing.
Command+Tab is fine. But I prefer Option+Click on application icons for automatic hiding.
Forget Vista. Has anyone here used the beta of Office 12? It’s basically brushed metal + aqua. They don’t even try and hide it.
MDN MW: “taken.” Seriously.
Three words:
Fast. User. Switching.
Thank you, Microsoft!
I do miss having more keyboard shortcuts in my programs
Take a gander:
http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=Switcher.txt&sortOrder=Sort by Date&detail=medium&search=switcher
Paul Thurrott’s Vista and OS X comparison:
http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/winvista_beta1_vs_tiger_02.asp
Enjoy!
Just a few things that Paul Thurrott, aka. “That Tool”, has to say in his comparison of Vista to OS X – this is all from ONE article. The point here is that Paul’s not anti-Mac, as is implied in this forum. Hell, the guy owns multiple Macs and constantly praises them.
“Mac OS X, meanwhile, was truly designed for excellent security, thanks to its wonderful UNIX roots and clean architecture.”
“Therefore, OS X is, in many ways, more secure than Windows is today…”
“The Vista beta adds some security features that OS X has had for years, and it does have a few niceties that OS X lacks. But it’s hard to vote against OS X here. The Vista beta, after all, is still Windows.”
“Tiger, meanwhile, is secure out of the box with regards to user accounts. That’s because OS X supports a better native security model than does Windows.”
“Comparing that system with the cleanly designed OS X is almost comical. If Microsoft can pull it off–and this is an uncertainty at this writing–Windows will finally pick up security functionality that the Mac has enjoyed for years.”
“One area in which Apple has done a commendable job is parental controls…give Apple credit for delivering on parental controls well ahead of Microsoft.”
“In any event, Apple does a good job of disabling unnecessary or potentially dangerous system services when an OS X system starts up.”
“In short, Mac OS X is more secure than Windows today, and will likely remain so even after Windows Vista is released.”
“(In regards to networking) OS X, by comparison, is much simpler.”
“The fact that OS X can access Windows shares at all is, of course, excellent.”
“Power management in OS X is much more straightforward.”
“Overall, I find Mac OS X to be easier to use with regards to power management, and I give Apple the nod for its instant-on/instant-off functionality.”
“Once again, the maturity and refinement in OS X has won out over the still-in-development Windows Vista.”
Still think he’s a tool, and Anti-Mac?
I’m so embarassed; been a Mac user since the mid 1990’s and Mac owner since 2001, and I never knew about Command-Tab. It’s quite cool…
FUDsucker Proxy sez:
>The one thing I miss on newer Macs is the Power
>button is no longer on the keyboard, I could just
>tap it once and then choose to restart, sleep or
>shut down. Quick easy and intuitive, the Mac way.
true, but ctrl-eject will do the same thing… not as elegant as a power button, but the functionality is still there.
>research has shown that keyboard shortcuts are very
>rarely used by even very experienced users (other
>than journalists perhaps) for anything other than
>cut, copy, and paste.
talk to serious video editors… they’ll tell you otherwise. we LOVE our keyboard commands!
In 1995 when MS finally released a Windows interface over DOS that was at least reasonably non idiotic, someone made up a bumper sticker that read
“Windows 95 = Macintosh 89”
And it’s never NOT been true. When was the Mac Os the wonkiest? Yep Mac 7-8 … same with Windows XP – since it’s essentially based on Mac OS7 … How long as OSX been out? 6 years. When is Vista coming out? That’s right – 6 years AFTER OSX.
Again, if you need to save a few bucks and you don’t mind a 6-year knockoff – there’s Windows for you. If you want to be at the leading edge and you can afford to non-generic products – the Mac is clearly the main driver of the PC market.
Apple + Tab is great! I use it dozens of times a day.
Let’s not forget, that Apple “borrowed” Windows’ user switching, which Steve Jobs admitted that Windows did better than the Mac at that time. Only Apple did it better and more securely than Windows, of course.
just my 2 cents, but i use cmd-tab all the time, just used it to get to safari from mail in fact.
“Apple’s operating system UI was first, ahead, and leading the way and Microsoft copied it later – usually poorly.”
True, but you have to give some credit to the Amiga. Although it is considered to be a “dead” platform, think about this – 1985: The Amiga 1000 – FIRST personal computer with a fully pre-emptive multitasking operating system. It could display 4096 colors, had dedicated sound and graphics chips, and a bit blitter chip (moves large chunks of memory very fast) and was also open architechture. Not to shabby for being released ONE year after the first Mac.
Just informational – save the flames.
A more attractive GUI does not equal a “superior OS.” Windows has plenty of advantages over OS X; for example, consider the 64-bit support (on 64-bit processors). Windows does not share OS X’s CLI-only limitation for 64-bit applications. It has a much finer-grained threading model, and scales much better over multiple processors–which will become increasingly important as chip manufacturers turn to multi-core designs to raise performance. OS X is a fine OS, but forget the marketing hype and be rational for a moment–there are plenty of Windows advantages today that deserve discussion, but you won’t find that at sites like this, or from most other tech media (or from Thurrott, for that matter). Furthermore, Vista will improve the Windows OS in many significant ways. Suggesting that Vista will merely “catch up” to OS X is not only simplistic nonsense, it’s blithely ignorant of where Windows is today and where it’s going.
cmd-tab implies a differnt workflow than alt-tab.
alt-tab cycles through every freaking open window; in another words, a linear progress through all your open windows.
cmd-tab cycles through every application, then cmd-~ (tilda) cycles through the windows in a selected application. the effect is a non-linear progression through your applications/windows.
i often have about 7~10 applications running each with its set of windows (sometime up to 10), i am shivering just by thinking about windows managing those windows with alt-tab.
a combo i often use is cmd-tab to desired application, then “application windows” expose. i found it to be the quickest way to take me to my desired window.
In January, I was verrryyy close to finally switching from Windows to Macs (after being a 13 year Windows user)
Basically, I was looking for Apple to give me that extra push.
Hell I event installed the developers OSX on my PC, to see what to expect.
Unfortunately, the push from Apple didn’t come. In fact, the opposite, I’ve found Apple and its users to be too smug, simplifying Windows as a crash-a-minute time-sapping tool.
I gotta tell you, Despite the negatives of Windows, there are waaaay more positives over OSX. Admittedly, most of the positives, are to do with the fact that Windows has such a commanding market share, that most companies have to support it.
Nevertheless, this situation will not change by Apple staying firmly put, and not helping switchers. (Have you seen the Mac Mini site on Apple, you have to buy a third part app, if you want to effectively move your files from Windows to OSX… This kind of thing should be free).
No my friends, as a Windows person who was SERIOUSLY AND DEFINITELY close to switching, I am now far-far away. I bet there are plenty of people like me in that regard.
Apple has missed the boat, and Microsoft is being clever by touting the impending release of Vista. I mean what do I care if Vista has copied the good stuff from OSX? All it means for me is that I end up with a better OS on my PC.
As far as Apple are concerned, they end up stuck in their 4% market share, and with sooooo many wasted opportunities.
“No DVR mac-mini, cuz we want to make money with i-tunes videos”
“We’re not selling OSX for PCs… Let the hacker do it for themselves, and we won’t make money off it”
That 30th Anniversary announcemnt better be a doozy. If it isn’t then this small window of interst I have ever had with Apple products will finally close.
I am writing as a potential switcher, and as noted, it wouldn;t surprise me if there were plenty of potential switchers like me.
Blu Vg:
I think that your admiration of Microsoft is not well placed. You infer that MS has certain ostensible design advantages; however, these are, at best, a few well-made bricks that make up a badly constructed house. MS will have to release an OS with some new and useful features to prove that it has the capacity to build a truly excellent OS. By excellent I mean not an inferior copy of OS X or something simply new or different, I mean something radically innovative. Based on history I do not think that MS is up to the task.
In addition, your denigration of OS X as simply being “attractive” misses the whole point of what an OS is meant to be. Humans rely on the visual interface as the link between the brain and the software. The attraction of OS X is the subtle and elegant way information is exchanged between the user and the machine. You cannot claim OS X’s beauty is only skin deep, but praise MS for attempting to copy, duplicate, or imitate some unique feature of OS X.