“Tech stocks tumbled Monday, as the Nasdaq Composite Index sank 11% in 2011, highlighting a broad market retreat sparked by the downgrade of U.S. debt by Standard & Poor’s,” Benjamin Pimentel reports for MarketWatch.
“The Nasdaq COMP gave up 175 points, or 6.9%, to close at 2,358 on Monday, as the Dow Jones Industrial Average lost 635 points,” Pimentel reports. “The tech sector’s heavyweights highlighted the slump with shares of Cisco Systems Inc. and Hewlett-Packard Co. down hard to become two of the top Dow decliners. Cisco sank 6.7% to close at $13.94, while H-P shed 5.6% at $30.81. Hardware makers were also in the red as shares of Apple Inc., Dell Inc. and EMC Corp. retreated.”
MacDailyNews Take: Apple’s quite a bit more than just a mere “hardware maker.”
Pimentel reports, “Internet companies also posted heavy losses. Google Inc. traded down 5.7% at $546.02, Amazon.com Inc. shed 4.4% to close at $193.70, eBay Inc. slumped 8% at $26.95 and AOL Inc. was off 6.5% at $15.07.”
Read more in the full article here.
Worse than Carter ™
Much, much, much worse!
The sky is falling! The sky is falling!
No, the country is being run into the ground. And it has been for the past 98 years since the founding of the federal reserve and the IRS. These two institutions removed government’s financial accountability.
Fa-fa-fa-fantasy land.
Join the rest of the country with the rest of your fellow Americans.
Spoken like a true liberal sheep shinocommie.
way to go demo-commies! Your evil plan to destroy th US is coming to fruition……..
If you voted for Obama to prove you weren’t a racist, please vote for anyone else in 2012 to prove your not an idiot!
A lot depends on what the other party puts forth as a candidate.
Very well said. But blame who you will, we all have our thoughts, it’s a buying opportunity to cherry pick AAPL at it’s lows! You don’t get chances like this very often. Take advantage no matter who you blame (thank) for these prices in equities. OK, I can’t blame the prez for this mess but he needs to be a one term kinda guy. And I don’t think he will be back. Buy some AAPL!!
Obama is always running around complaining and whining and moaning about all that he inherited from George W. Bush. Well, he inherited a AAA credit rating, an unemployment rate of 5.7%. Does anybody doubt that this is on purpose? Well, look, my credit rating doesn’t suck. There are a lot of individual Americans whose credit ratings aren’t in trouble. The United States has never been in this position — and the next thing that’s gonna happen is that Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and others are going to be downgraded.
What are the Democrats doing? Blaming the referees! Blaming Standard & Poor’s! That always changes the outcome, doesn’t it? Blame the refs. You people in Seattle? The Seahawks, Super Bowl, 2005, Steelers? Blame the refs. Last time I looked the Steelers still won the game. So, go ahead and blame Standard & Poor’s all you want, Democrats. Now they’re blaming the military! Barney Frank’s blaming the military. Rumsfeld was on our DC affiliate this morning, WMAL. You know our military spending is 4% of GDP right now? Military spending is 4% of GDP. During the Eisenhower administration in the fifties, post the WWII, defense spending was 10% of GDP. Today it’s 4% of GDP, and Barney Frank and the Democrats are try to say it’s the military’s fault that we’ve been downgraded.
This is the fault of the Democrat Party.
This is why I said, “I hope he fails,” because I didn’t want to see this happen to our country.
– “Rush Limbaugh, August 8, 2012
Yea, the Republicans are angels! To tell you the truth both parties suck.
I’m sick of the politics and the entrenched two party system. I say we all vote out all encumbants in the next election and at least get 1/3 of the congress out of there to send a message that we don’t want idiots running this country.
I seem to remember part of the credit downgrade is due to no plans to increase revenue (aka tax increases). Which party is responsible for that?
You do not need to raise taxes to increase revenue to the gov’t.
no. it comes from angels.
Tax cuts create more revenue every time for everyone including the gov. You commies think my money is yours to take. Screw you! Go earn your own freaking money, scum bags!!!
Thats like saying: slitting your wrist creates more blood. However, you neglected to mention you are losing more than you are producing.
You need to educate your sorry ass whateverNOT4real!
Start with Milton Friedman. Taxes destroy the economy. Stop trying to elect people to steel other hard working people’s money. You would all be put in jail doing what the government does in the free market. You liberals are brain dead scum!!!
Maybe we could let the Bush tax cuts for the rich expire? He11 no!
Thank you tea party.
You mean the tax cuts that reduced the rate the poorest people pay by %33 and the rate the richest pay by %1? Those tax cuts that primarily benefited the poor?
I find it amazing that so many people are so gullible they believe tax cuts benefit the rich primarily.
I find it amazing you are so insulated from reality.
Look in the mirror shit head, shinocommie idiot.
To raise revenue you need to drop taxes, it seems counter intuitive but here is why: taxes drop which spurs the economy to grow. The larger economy pays more taxes, even though the rate is lower. Case in point: Reagan dropped the tax rates in numerous areas and the revenue the government received doubled in a few years!
In a simplified math example
100B GDP taxed at 39% gets $39B in revenue
300B GDP taxed at 20% gets $60B in revenue
Also known as the gaffer curve. But these people get their “economics” from krugman. They aren’t conditioned to thinking critically and they don’t want to be bothered. They believe the propaganda over any “expert” who knows what he’s talking about.
Remember, every socialist regime, first thing they do is discredit the “intellectuals” so the people will not trust the ones who will naturally disagree with government propaganda. Then they tell the people that the politicians lies are “science” and they do things like give nobel prizes to propagandists like krugman and set him up as an Authority Figure (gave one to barak while they were at it.)
The republicans are just as bad, of course, only their area of lying is national security.
To raise revenue you need to drop taxes, it seems counter intuitive but here is why: taxes drop which spurs the economy to grow. The larger economy pays more taxes, even though the rate is lower. Case in point: Reagan dropped the tax rates in numerous areas and the revenue the government received doubled in a few years!
In a simplified math example
100B GDP taxed at 39% gets $39B in revenue
300B GDP taxed at 20% gets $60B in revenue
Sorry for the double post if this shows up twice
Well.. sorry homey- but our economy has been shrinking.. so…
And our taxes have been dropped.. and yet…
I’ll wager if we cut taxes to 10% and you held your breath waiting for the economy to grow you’d be DOA as your little theory.
It’s a tad bit more complicated than you seem to be able to grasp.
No it isn’t you fool. Cut taxes every one does better you little class warfare piece of garbage. Go to he’ll!
Thank you for that perfect example of absolute economic ignorance wrapped in smug superiority.
Comrade, you truly are a fine example of an anti-intellectual!
you must be talking to yourself. I mean- ROFL.
I am privy to conversations with an executive in a very large market cap engineering type company… it’s funny to know that many engineers they contract have legal issues to contend with. See- engineers are talented in special industries, so sometimes you have to deal with a lot of their legal baggage because they have no choice- mostly restraining orders, domestic violence convictions, etc.
You kind of sound like you fit the bill.. why so angry :)?
Shinocommie lives in mommy’s basement collecting benefits from all of us hard working tax payers. His wet dream is to one day be a union thug……..
Pirate, Mick, Neddie and Hotinplaya provide a definite sign that the education system in the US has failed miserably and that with people like them being allowed to vote, there truly is no hope.
Hey Jimg,
Look in the mirror jack ass!
Obama’s running out of time in his attempt to execute the Cloward–Piven Strategy.
Pleeeez! You have beaten that horse too long. Enough already. We get it. We all took the same course in college. Glad you retained something.
All my college educated buddies are blaming the S&P. They never heard the term “don’t shoot the messenger”, apparently that wasn’t in the college course.
“Yes, we can’t.” – Obama Messiah
The right wingnuts are out in full force today!
Meine Ideologie über alles!
As I told a young couple just starting out in life last week, “Please, PLEASE, make sure the next candidate you vote for in the Presidential Sweepstakes is a BUSINESS PERSON! Whether Democrat or Republican or GreenPeacer or TeaPartier or whatever . . . make sure he or she is PRO-BUSINESS in all of its forms and not against rich people.”
As crazy old Ross Perot once said, “I never got a job from a poor person.” Love ’em or hate ’em, risk-takers and entrepreneurs are necessary in US society. Socialists and Communists have absolutely nothing to offer someone who is freshly unemployed and seeking a better future. Period.
Come on, Randian – get with the program. Don’t you know the rich aren’t hiring? They’re evil and they’re just holding on to their giant wads of cash – hoarding it. So, we have to tax the crap out of them to get our hands on all their ill-gotten gains. See, it’s all the rich’s fault that we’re in the state we’re in – because they don’t pay any taxes.
It has nothing at all to do with the corrupt politicians from both parties that pander to the special interests and simply spend more than we take in to do it.
two different problems.
Nope. One problem– you believe the propaganda that makes you think that the rich being rich is somehow a problem. Because the corrupt politicians told you that lie in order to distract you from their corruption, and obscure the fact that those rich people are the engine that eliminates poverty.
I am wealthy.
At state level I agree with a lot of the tax rhetoric. But to call me dumb, brainwashed etc is funny. You guts delude the he’ll out of yourselves. That’s fine by me. Fuck fixing shit. Let’s let it collapse 🙂
You are wealthy on food stamps, toolboy. Stop leaching off all of us hard working Americans you vile slime ball chinoscumbag.
If you idiot Americans don’t forget party politics and work together to fix things you will screw up more than just one country.
You might just end up watching India and China become the world’s only superpowers.
Amen brother (Im an american btw)
Anyone trying to in this on “the othee party” is just another piece of the problem. We need to drop the ideological bull on both sides and do what is right for the US and all the countries who have invested in this great nation.
“We the peopke” indeed. If you want to blame someone go look in the mirror
people vote who they want to be and not what they are here…
they’ll sink the ship into oblivion and look like suckers rather than work together.
maybe they should listen to the words of our pledge a little.
I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
they act like there are football teams they are rooting for. but hey- what do you expect from mental midgets?
Why is it the ignorant are the ones always calling other people things like “mental midgets”?
you definitely are a mental midget.
but an aspect of that is you’ll never realize it.
shrug.. theme the breaks.
sorry fool.
Thanks to the Tea Party, Way to go ass hats!!!
Tea Party candidates were elected to cut spending. They are doing precisely as the citizens who elected them have instructed them to do.
We simply need more elected Tea Party candidates. Democrats = tax and spend big government = FAILURE.
Explain to me where the debt has fallen under any president in the last 30 years. A 2 party system = fail
Electing RINOs was the mistake.
Vote for true conservatives.
The TEA party sold out. We have $2T more debt, and no real spending cuts.
Stop voting for “conservatives” and elect a libertarian.
Ron Paul.
The last couple of years during Clinton, there was a budget surplus and there were fears the US debt might get to small as US treasuries are considered the safest investment in the world.
With a conservative republican controlled congress. Clinton didnt want to balance anything but ass.
So now that the t-party republicans have done precisely what they said they would, voted FOR default on the debt and NOT to raise new revenue, are you happy with the chaos they created? Or are you upset that they failed to achieve a full default?
If you and your t-party representatives do anything that *actually* improves the economy, Obama will undoubtedly be reelected. On the other hand, if you can *prevent* constructive steps to improve the economy, your chances against Obama in 2012 are much better. All us AAPL longs want to know: how much is a ruined economy worth to you? Would you prefer a stable, healthy economy in the next two years OR would you prefer to make your point and defeat Obama in 2012? You must know you can’t have both.
You do not need to raise taxes to increase revenue coming in to the government.
Wow, so the “chaos” the Republicans created (I thought it took two sides to cause a stalemate, but whatever) is the singular cause for the credit rating downgrade?
It had nothing to do with the fact that Congress couldn’t cut enough out of the budget to make even a decent-sized dent in our massive upside-down debt-to-income ratio?
Yeah, and the tea partiers just wan a “ruined economy” to get your boy Bam Bam reelected… Yeah, ’cause nobody in the Tea Party has 401k’s or IRA’s or businesses or other investments that they’re concerned with.
Buy into any other conspiracy theories much?
Atually, yes. S&P said it in their analysis of why they downgrade the US credit rating resulting in the tumultuous worldwide market crashes they blamed republicans – quoted form their press release-
“We have changed our assumption on this because the majority of Republicans in Congress continue to resist any measure that would raise revenues, a position we believe Congressreinforced by passing the act.”
They also talk, of course, about how our governments two parties can’t work together and hammer out a fiscal deal.
It;s not as simple as the tea parties issues- but the tea party is incapable of seeing a leads to b. republicans and democrats are corporation whores.
And the citizens by and large suffer. I mean- I don’t- because the last time this shit happened I earned a lot of a lot of money I only payed 15% taxes on- one of the lowest tax rates on capital gains ever. If it went to 20% it would be fine by me- I don’t mind investing in the USA- my wonderful country that made my wealth possible. And plus- I want my money to be worth something in the future.
How about cutting all of the insanely wasetful spending going on and unio low lives with do nothing government jobs. Why do all government paid for construction jobs have to be done at union wage rates??? There is so much fcking waste it’s mind boggling. We have no obligation to give the lazy anything. You liberals SUCK!!!
Exactly. The power-hungry republicans don’t care what happens to Americans or world economy as long as they succeed in making president Obama look bad and blame him for their own foul play.
There wouldn’t have been any government financial crises if only they’d allowed the filthy rich be taxed some of their idle money.
Markets couldn’t have done much worse with a default. At least with a default spending would have been cut immediately for non essential services.
Basic problem though is not S&P or the “slowing” economy, it is the incessant talking heads and the high frequency trading which does not distinguish the good from the bad or cheap versus expensive. Today felt like the May 2010 flash crash without the bounce.
Let’s go to a flat 9% income tax, no write offs for anything or anyone or any corporation. Then have a progressive consumption tax. If you are poor and you buy a 300.00 tv, you pay say 5%. If you are top 10% rich you pay 40%, you could live with a lesser tv. No write offs. If you are Goldman Sachs and you buy a 30,000.00 rug for your office, no write off and the 40% tax.
Streamline government and make it perform like a private business, each area must ” make a profit “.
Congress and Senate must perform immediately and not pass everything down the road.
My poor Country is a damn mess, we need everyone to work together and get it fixed.
EOR
End of rant
Soak the rich! Soak the rich! Yeah, that’s a great idea. Let’s provide a great big disincentive for the people with big bucks to spend it… Yeah, that’ll be GREAT for the economy. That way, the wealthy guy that wants to build a house or buy a building can pay a big fat tax on top… Yeah, that’ll put people to work. NOT.
Dude, a high school econ student can see why a consumption tax – especially a progressive consumption tax – is a horrible idea!
Why not a simple flat tax (graduated down to zero for the lowest income earners), with as you say, no deductions or loopholes? Everybody pays the same – the “post card” tax return as it were… It’s simple, straightforward, difficult to avoid, and it doesn’t disincentivize spending (and therefore a strong, growing economy).
As for forcing the gov to perform and run efficiently – totally agree. And yes, the country is a damn mess.
I never claimed to be an economist, I’m a contractor. Maybe the 40% is too much, just throwing ideas out. The consumption tax is in place of sales tax, gas tax all that crap.
Your graduated flat tax is sort of like the progressive consumption, less for the lower earners that are needed in our country, gives them more to spend.
where have you been? Rich people aren’t spending their money. They are hoarding it.
Hey- The USA made billionaires who they are today. Is it such an issue to ask them to reinvest back into the country that gave them their opportunities? Is it really?
What’s billions if our country devolves into crap and their billions devolves into pesos?
Do I think our gov needs to become more efficient? hell yea. who doesn’t?
It’s, unfortunately, human nature to burn down the forest for a tree.. but the problem.. they won’t realize their tree burns with it until it’s too late.
stupid is as stupid follows.
Blaming the Tea Party is like blaming the person calling 911 to report a fire with setting it
Or like blaming the canary for dying in the coal mine.
The tea party folks were warning that the economic supertanker was heading for the cliffs at full speed. The bill that passed did not change course but reduced the speed a little. No wonder S&P downgraded us.
Stocks are overvalued at this time. It was long due for a correction.
HOORAY Boehner got what he wanted!! THe Repubs and Tea Party people must be so happy!! Maybe if they crash our economy even more they have a chance to put their guy in charge!! Victory for the Republicans!!!!
I’d love to see boehners market activities over the last year. wouldn’t you :)?
If the USA was a family it would work out to where you make 50k, spend 80k and have a CC debt of 350k! You decide you can’t go on like that so you cut your budget to only spending 78k a year!
to make your analogy work… we’d voluntarily take a pay cut and make 25k and wonder why debt was skyrocketing.
Vanax – Yes, the S&P has no credibility with Main St., only with Wall St which, of course, runs the country as a network of corporate oligarch terrorists intent to manipulate, lie, cheat, and steal their way to Stalinist-like dominance, when, at the same time, it refused to lower its AAA rating to investments banks engaged in all manner of exotic trading and credit default swaps which led to the Bush Era recession and now the Bush-era depression.
That S&P has caused the US Gov. and normal citizens to pay more for everything by its lowered rating, so it should be treasonous.
It’s as if the S&P took over America by means of a slick putsch. But, since corportions are the US gov., I guess the US Justice Dept regards S&Ps subversion to be all legal and cool. This would make sense since it’s they who wrote the laws.
It’s interesting that the conservatives on this forum criticize Obama and his horrible failure as a leader. Yet, the liberals on the forum don’t defend Obama, they attack Bush, the Tea Party, and conservative posters.
Seems right out of the left wing playbook, when all else fails, attack, attack, attack.
Consider that the default on the debt that was argued over is not about paying all of the bills of the US government. Greenspan said it plain and simple – “all we have to do is print more money”… The debt default is about US as citizens and sovereigns not keeping up with the interest payments to the Federal Reserve. The Fed is not a part of the government. That is why there has been no audit – ever. We pay interest on the interest on the interest ad nauseam to use our own money to a privately help company. That isn’t anyone’s fault but our own. (I am a US citizen, btw, just live in Oz).
How to solve it. Not sure. We were promised that if Congress pushed to have an audit of the Feds (which Ron Paul did), we would see a depression like we could not imagine. When Volker was asked if that was a threat, his reply was, “No, that’s a promise.”
Here we are.
What am I doing? I am returning to the US and moving all of my company and jobs and manufacturing to the US , so that we can start employing US citizens who really want to work and make a difference. That is what needs to happen.
Will it happen on a large scale? I hope so.
Greed is not a political term, except that it is. Both “sides” are greedy and self serving. If you think otherwise, then you are not really paying attention.
People enter politics to serve themselves – most of the time.
Sorry if I sound pessimistic but I am doing all I can and more. I hope it helps. Cheers.
oops.. held… didn’t proof it well enough. 🙂
I talked with a few business owners when I was living in Oz for a time- I understood tax rates were quite exorbitant? Wouldn’t it behoove you, financially, to do business in the US? Not that I wouldn’t do business in OZ, I love it there.
That- and I hear Aussies aren’t exactly known for their work ethic.. hehe.
Maybe you ought to read my comment again… I am moving back to the US.
I am a dual national and love Australia but I do not want to pay the high taxes that are now even getting higher both for my business and personally. I just can’t get excited about how it is going here anymore.
As for Aussie work ethic – I have never met a bloke who wasn’t willing to work his a$$ off to get a job done AND the other half of it is that they love the grog and holidays.
The business I have is discouraged in development in Oz and I will be employing over 2500 people when i set back up in the US. I hope I receive a friendlier welcome when I come home than from the Gillard govt. 🙂
Cheers, Mate
Oz and the US have the same problem. Move your business to asia…somewhere they’d be happy to have you. Singapore might be a good bet. Low taxes- they only tax what you repatriate to singapore (so you can bank in Hong Kong) and there are workers in many locations around asia to do your manufacturing.
Call me dense but that is why there are so few manufacturing and engineering jobs in the US because so many jobs have been moved to Asia.
So, I guess America doesn’t need 2500 jobs? In addition to the ancillary jobs that would be created to support the company. How foolish of me.
I have an opportunity to move my company to Singapore but I have found few Americans living there to hire. I have been offered manufacturing facilities with all sorts of tax holidays and other benefits in the UAE, Switzerland, China BUT what I want to do is hire Americans in America. Why is that such a problem. No wonder the country is in the state it is in. Cheech!
I guess I am too altruistic but I would like to see some of good ole American ingenuity being used in the process and maybe, just maybe, using some of that great American talent and knowhow to manufacture and ship a product that says “Made In America” rather than have a label company that prints in english “Made In Singapore” or “Made In China”.
Maybe, I should not worry about providing jobs for people and just retire and live it easy. I have enough and I certainly do not need the headaches.
Oh no I got that- I had meant why you were doing biz down under in the first place. But if you are a dualie- that explains it enough.
haha.. I love aussies. And I guess I had to take it with a grain of salt as the employer I was talking to was a polish national- those dudes are hard to beat work ethic wise.
welcome back!
cheers indeed 🙂
Dude- your perspective is right on, your timing just sucks.
Please, read Atlas Shrugged. You can’t turn things around by carrying the weight of the world on your hands. Keep your business where it is profitable.
Rand laid out how these guys operate and what the endgame is. The country will need you in the future, and we will need you to move back THEN.
Not now. If you move back now, you’ll just be destroyed.
I guess all of my legal advisors and political advisors need to contact you. I have been preparing for this move back for three years. I have spent more money than I want to talk about to make sure that it will all work.
I have read Atlas Shrugged many times. Nice story. And it does not mean it has to be her way.
And I also love this quote:
English philosopher Edmund Burke said, ‘The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.’
I refuse to sit around and do nothing and be “safe”. There is no “safe” – we are all one planet. I feel that the best place I can do what I must do is where I am most at home and that is in the US.
I have been in business since 1972. I am no neophyte and I have VERY good connections. Thank you for your interest, concern and advice.
What I also know is there is only now – there is no THEN.
Cheers.
well said my man.
he’ll never get it. he’s too angry and deluded.. probably feels hopeless. I like making fun of him, but it’s nice you shown a mirror at him instead.
bravo.
Thanks for your comments, Mate. Oz is a great place to live and work and love and play. I cannot deny that. We will maintain a home here as long as.
I also know that where I am re-establishing my business in the States needs the employment for the people there and there are incentives for me to be there.
America isn’t as screwed as some folks are trying to say. I think what is being said is to fulfil some folks hidden agenda.
That’s a long conversation, obviously not suited for a “techie’ website.
Thanks again, Ooroo
Rather depressing to watch hegemony at work; working and middle class posters defending tax cuts for their ruling class on the grounds that those ruling classes buoy the economy with their spending (!) and job creation.
This is presented as an all or nothing proposition where ANY tax increases for the ruling class will cause the ruling class to stop spending and creating jobs and presumably move to Micronesia.
Surely economics should be taught (or taught better) at all high schools to allow American voters to approach complex economic issues with at least a little more subtlety and understanding, otherwise they are, as demonstrated here, at the complete mercy of demagogues and rabble rousers.
You advocate economics education. I suggest you start with “Economics in One Lesson” by Henry Hazlitt.
Economics is not that complicated. The complications come exclusively from politicians trying to create explanations for why things don’t work they way they expect.
For instance, spending by businesses does create jobs because businesses spend the money to expand.
Spending by government destroys jobs because the money comes out of the businesses expansion budget (e.g. profits) and goes to political cronies who pocket it.
I love when libertarians think they are the genius of the group.
so you are hook line and sinker ron paul balls on your chin it’s so deep.
way to throw your flag up, buddy.
guess what- it;s nice you have your beliefs, but you are a bit too much of an angry man, and i beg you to continue.
be real- you are a fat dude who doesn’t get laid right?
Americans are too busy watching reality shows to be bothered with politics. They leave that to career politicians like Obama, who has never accomplished anything of value in his life, other than float with trash to the top.
The events of today are the result of decades of bad lending policies forced upon the banks by liberal groups and politicians, lending trillions into minority areas.
Then they used that mess as their October surprise to bail out their Obama ticket that was in deep trouble to float this nobody into the White House.
Th…th..thhat’s all folks…
Bush was worse than Carter and Obama is way better than Reagan.