Small group of Apple Store employees talk of unionizing on 10th retail anniversary

“On the day of Apple’s 10th Retail Store anniversary, not everyone’s celebrating: in fact, a small but vocal group of Apple Store employees is working hard even now to unionize in response to what they term unfair treatment and compensation,” John Brownlee reports for Cult of Mac.

MacDailyNews Note: Interestingly, in today’s USA Today, Scott Martin reports that Apple Store employees “are better compensated than elsewhere.” Read more in the full article here.

Brownlee continues, “The group is called the Apple Retail Union, whose announcement includes this modus operandi: ‘We are launching today to get fellow employees, shoppers, and the world know that we work in one of the most demanding retail environments while suffering through unfair treatment and compensation among many other various issues… We deserve better. Our time has come.'”

“Whether or not the Apple Retail Union’s time has actually come or not — we imagine Steve Jobs would have something to say about that — it does seem as if there might be growing talk about unionizing,” Brownlee reports.

Full article here.


  1. ” ‘We are launching today to get fellow employees, shoppers, and the world know that we work in one of the most demanding retail environments ”

    Left out the word ‘chose to’…

    We are launching today to get fellow employees, shoppers, and the world know that we CHOSE TO work in one of the most demanding retail environments

    ” while suffering through unfair treatment and compensation among many other various issues… We deserve better. Our time has come.’”

    Left out the word ‘to quit’.

    Our time has come TO QUIT.

    Your problems will all be solved… less stress from a demanding retail environment and no longer mistreated…

    1. If it’s so bad, yeah, quit. The pay might not be as good at the Microsoft Store, but at least there aren’t so many pesky customer wanting to buy things

  2. Dear Apple Retail Union, if you believe the job to be too demanding or don’t think the pay is adequate, quit. But don’t drag our company, our shares, and it’s reputation down the drain.

    If you think the pay or environment is challenging now, wait till a union digs in. Unions have one goal, maximize revenue on the backs of new members and their deminishing labor force.

    I promise to be vocal, present, and persistent in my opposition to your self-entitled, self-absorbed, and utterly ridiculous concept.

  3. While I understand their plight knowing full well the BS that goes on behind the doors of Apple Stores everywhere, unionizing for this is… stupid. Retail is a job that is intensive, and that has high rollover.
    Apple does provide great compensation, but sometime their treatment of retail employees, at least from managers is unfair.

    I worked at Apple, made a certain hourly wage. Lo and Behold, iPhone releases, now I have to do my normal job, plus sell and promote AT&T contacts.
    AT&T employees get paid more hrly, and get a commission.
    I got no pay raise.
    Do you think thats fair that they raised my responsibilities and knew many people who were paid more for a same job with less? I left because of it. But I left. I didnt unionize. Sure, I was pissed, Apple should have compensated me better.
    But I could leave, and i did.

    1. I don’t know about AT&T but I worked at Apple store and Sprint and Apple pays much more. There is no commission though but even if you add commission, Apple stile pays more.

    2. You’re complaining because Apple added another item (AT&T contracts) to their store? It’s retail!!! Stock changes, new promotions, etc. Same job, same responsibilities! Sheesh, now stop whining like a spoiled child, get out there, and push the damn phone contracts instead of printers this week!

      Whats a union going to do for you? Better still in the last 30 years, what positive changes for employees, has any US workers’ union made for their workers? You will only lose money from your own pay to support a union to sit around and watch you work. If you want false hope, try religion. If you want a better job and higher pay, work harder and get a promotion.

      1. You should familiarize yourself with the Boeing Engineers strike in 2000. Boeing, unfortunately inherited a Jack Welsh wannabe when it was taken over by McDonnel Douglas. During the 40 day strike, no airplanes were delivered. That CS managed to destroy 50+ years of the Company and the Engineers Union working successfully to resolve issues of compensation and work environment to the benefit of both parties. Most of the time the main benefit of a union is protection of the workers from idiot first and second level management. It takes a strike to protect them from idiot executive VPs.

        That said, retail is retail. The hours suck, you are on your feet all the time, the customer has to be tolerated, right or wrong. Your replacement can be trained in a matter of days or weeks. You can learn the job or your next one in the same time. It’s not a career and trying to unionize to constrain the behavior of the store manager isn’t worth the time and effort.

        Work at the store, grab all the benefits (like employee discounts) you can and finish your degree so you can move on to something worthy of a Mac user.

        1. On paper, yes, Boeing bought McDD, but the folks from McDD got their people installed into positions of power, and they’ve been destroying Boeing ever since – see the 787 “Dreamliner” debacle.

    3. No it is NOT unfair at all. “Other duties as assigned”

      It is naive to think you are going to work a job and it is going to stay the same. Things evolve, things change.

      Adapt and overcome..

  4. Retail sucks, if you don’t like it, find another job that doesn’t suck. You won’t be happier being part of a union. You will just think you have some power that you don’t and pay union dues for the privilege. You are not suffering, you’re just young, stupid, and lazy,

  5. They have the right to attempt to form a union. If their grievances are valid and sufficiently substantial to motivate other Apple retail store employees, then they may have a shot. So far, however, I have not seen evidence of the type of grassroots support required for them to be successful.

    It seems pretty cavalier of others posting on this forum to say “just quit.” There is nothing wrong with battling for what you believe in and trying to make things better rather than just moving on. That is (was?) the foundation of this country. Besides, this is not exactly the type of economic environment in which many people would choose to quit a job unless they had no other options.

    It is easy to stand on principles when you don’t have any skin in the game.

    1. I wholly agree with this
      While I quit, it was my choice, and I could
      Retail is not “unionizable” in most places because they cant get the support, but if they could actually make a difference, I’d love it.
      I think as it is, since the turbulent economy, inflation, and the increase in requirements of their employees, Apple should take a step in and change things. As it is, its seemingly stagnant.

      1. Unions were initially formed to protect the workers. But sooner or later some union leaders became arrogant, power-crazy and lazy. They want more, more, more for less, less, less work. They not only inconvenienced the public but they also destroy the country and the workers that they were supposed to represent. There is nothing wrong with responsible unionization but unbridled ambitions of union leaders are a curse to the workers’ cause.

        1. Your bigoted opinion is for sh*t. Stereotype much? One bad apple and they are all bad? Stop listening to Faux news and buying into this current round of corporate propaganda. There is a concerted effort in government right now to bust unions and stir up a national debate on it. Their lobbying corporate cronies are behind it. Stop taking lies as truth and educate yourself.

    2. They have little chance of creating a new union, so they will have to try to get chartered under an existing union. I’ve been through a union fight at a restaurant I managed (part of a chain) many years ago. Like Apple, it was a small, but vocal group. Unions know how to recruit, and Apple is a plum with their growing retail outlets. They paint a pretty rosey picture. Attorney’s specializing in combating unionizing attempts were flown out from corporate to teach me how to nip the action in the bud, which eventually happened. All it really took was an education of what the reality of unionizing really meant to the employees to have them realize that it was not in their best interests. Still, it was an ugly affair, and you can bet that Apple will take steps to stop this before it spreads.

      1. “an education of what the reality of unionizing really meant to the employees”

        AKA a propaganda campaign put on by the far more powerful of two parties in a dispute, to support that side’s opinions and best interests without regard to facts or the interests of the other side. Sort of like Exxon advertisements about all the wonderful benefits of tar sands and deep water oil drilling, they are also just “educating” us about the “reality” of what their energy technologies “mean to the consumer.”

        Gag me with a motherfucking spoon. Do you really believe what you’re saying?

    3. It’s easy to say just quit when you are living rent free in Mom’s basement driving a car bought by said mom.
      In Germany union members sit on the boards of many of the companies they represent the workers of & have for years. Last I checked, the German economy is in pretty damn good shape & their companies kick a fair amount of ass.
      Bought a VW recently and the salesman was bragging about their new Tennessee plant & I told him I didn’t want a German car made by non-union Teabaggers. Bought a nice Golf- made in Wolfsburg by the folks in IG Metal. Solid as a Benz.

      1. If you’re unable (or, more likely, unwilling) to see how you’re damaging the economy that you’re living in (and since you’ve resorted to the childish method of “name calling” to anyone who disagrees with you, I suspect the latter), then there’s no point in engaging you in rational conversation.

        You’re an irrational hater of everyone who doesn’t “sit down, shut up and do as you’re ordered”.

        In other words? A perfect representation of the so called “progressive” movement in America today.

        1. How is buying a better car made by workers earning a living wage destructive? The fact is that it is not.
          The southern states with their “right to work” ( translation:right to be a scab ) laws have undermined America’s economy with race to the bottom wages and shitty benefits.
          It’s amazing how the south has been a perpetual drag on our nation- politically, economically, educationally and culturally.

    4. King Smell,

      You represent everything that is wrong with the US you freaking commie. Please do us all a favor and move to Russia. The dirt balls trying to form a union are lucky to have any work at all in this Maobama Non Economy. You liberal idiots are destroying the US. We will not let it happen. F OFF.

    1. What about the 5 day work week? Or 8 Hour work day? You like vacation days? Sick days? Overtime?

      I know you loved it when there was only unsafe working conditions.

      Unions have done alot in the past and some still do. But unfortunately most unions now are no longer fighting for the worker just their own greed.

      1. Jeremy you ahole, There are enough labor laws now to prevent the unsafe situation you mention. If you don’t like the deal for the work don’t work there. Move, find another job, invent something. Be an American, not a f*Cking Communist. We’re voting you assholes out next time around. We’ll use every scummy tactic you use right back against you. We hate you liberal scum.

    2. I work in a union position and yes, lazy, self-serving does come to mind when I see some of the people I work with. Funny thing is that I don’t have a choice, I have to be in the union to have the job. I think unions do protect my rights as a worker but it over protects the lazy people as well.

      Laziness should be the right of a union worker…a right to get fired!

    3. And how many union firms have you managed? Or had first person dealings with?
      Wal-Mart is one of the mist union hostile companies in existence and they have lazy, slow employees. And dirty, poorly stocked stores full if overpriced Chinese shit.
      Tell me why Wal-Mart thinks it better to bring oranges from China instead of Florida, Texas, Arizona or California. Would it be those union illegals picking fruit for a less than minimum wage?

      1. UPS is one of the most heavily unionized companies in the
        USA, and also one of the best performing at every level. Their employees and customer service are consistently amazing when compared against FEDEX (which is non-union). So, whether a union leads to laziness, or pride and excellence in one’s job, might depend on the particular culture of both the union and the company.

        1. Try again Fredo. UPS is much slower than FedEx and UPS is harder to find any open offices on weekends.

          The truth is after the 1920s unions harm everyone (employees, management, investors, and customers) and help only greedy lazy union thug bosses.

          The modern union mentality has had nothing but a deleterious effect on America.

        2. I can speak to the UPS/FEdex performance in my area..
          Fedex SUCKS… but, are generally a day faster than UPS.
          UPS is consistent.
          UPS wont deliver on saturday, Fedex wont on Monday if it’s a ground package. half the time you order something online that ships fedex, you dont get a choice, like apple… cant ship with anyone other than Fedex. and again like apple… you cant choose anything other than ground sometimes. (my iPads i couldnt, my iMac i could.)

          I do know that in order to be management at UPS, you MUST be a delivery driver for minimum of a year. I do like that approach. it makes sure that they will not get a manager that has absolutely no clue how a driver operates.

          My local Fedex i hate to deal with.
          my iMac got to town a day ahead of schedule, but Fedex REFUSED to deliver it… cause it had the next days date on it as guaranteed.
          my UPS driver… i have watched him drive past my house, and not deliver a package. and i check later and the package was “attempted” BS… i was home all day and watched him drive past, he never tried. UPS said the notice the driver left “must have blown away”

          Speaking of delivery though.. USPS constantly delivers my stuff a day ahead of schedule. I ordered Enki’s new smartcover, took forever to actually ship.. but it arrived 2 days early.

          all this is just observation in my area though, other areas will have different results.
          generally i dont care if i have to deal with a unionized company or not, but sometimes.. it just frustrates you.

      1. I’m sure they’re hoping for that. In that case, Apple would be up for several Federal labor law violations, and civilly liable for lots and lots of damages to these then-former employees, not to mention back pay.

        Organizing (in the labor sense) has been a “right” since the early 20th century. It’s really too bad that the unions themselves have been in the main taken over by scum-sucking slime* but that’s the breaks.

        *My apologies for the unfair comparison. Scum-sucking slime actually serves a valuable purpose, unlike union leadership.

        1. It should be banned and outlawed to save the US. Union scum bags of all types are destroying the US and steeling from all of us. We hate unions!!!!!!!! Motherf*!#ckers.

      1. The attributions were meant as a joke son… Now, a pop quiz: Which Marx said this?:

        “I wouldn’t join any organization that would have me as a member.”

        Seems pertinent to this topic.

  6. I think we’re talking about a handful of marginal employees who think that if they start talking about unionizing, Apple will be afraid to can them.


  7. Unions = complacency

    Why try harder, I make as much as that guy working 3x harder than me. An they can’t fire me for not working as hard.

    Unions had good ideas, but they halve served their purpose and are not needed anymore.

    Apple, don’t let it happen.

  8. What a bunch of losers. Can’t they see what unionization has done to this country. It’s the entitlement mentality that limits people’s potentials. What a shame.

    1. I know what you mean. Life in this country was so much better when we all worked 6 12-hour days, had no leave time (sick or vacation), couldn’t take bathroom breaks, had no worker’s comp to cover on the job injuries, no say in on-the-job safety, didn’t make overtime, had no retirement benefits, no health insurance, and could be fired because someone didn’t like the color of our skin. That was such a utopia. I thank God for men like Scott Walker, John Kasich, Rick Snyder, Rick Perry, Rick Scott, and Charles Koch who are working so hard to take our country back to those days of paradise.

      1. That’s ancient history. It’s great that the unions of old got these benefits for all of us, the problem is many unions have lost their way and are suffering from “feature creep” (like many big, successful organizations–see Greenpeace, MADD, etc).

        Not to say they all do, but when certain unions make demands like raises during a recession while the company itself is reporting record losses, they are, like for-profit companies, sacrificing their employee’s long-term future for short-term gain, because that company WILL collapse.

      2. There’s a problem with your “logic”

        Unions were able to get these things called LAWS passed…

        6-12 hour days.. Violate state and federal worker laws.

        A company violates that, turn them over to the state.

        Again, that’s why unions are not needed anymore.

        1. Yea, as an individual go sue a Fortune 500 company. Their labor lawyers will tie the case up in court for years- without end.
          There are law firms that specialize in getting around labor laws by grinding your ass into bankruptcy with never-ending countersuits, filings, motions, challenges and all the rest. They advertise this as their way of doing business, telling companies to ignore the law- they will keep your claim from ever seeing a courtroom.
          As to the state agencies, many have become captive- loaded with people who bow to the companies they are supposed to oversee.

        2. Didn’t say sue.
          I work at a unionized office.
          I’m allergic to smoke, in my state you can’t smoke indoors.
          The union agreed to a designated smoking area outside, 5 ft from a window where I now work.
          The smoke comes in the window all day, union steward is a heavy smoker and laughed when I brought up the point about the legality of the smoking area.
          For two weeks I talked to the manager and the steward about the smoke, nothing done.

          So I called the state board of health. See, a law was passed a few years back. You can’t smoke within 30 feet if a door or window in the city.
          Manager got a fine, smoking area has been moved.
          Just cause they have an agreement on where the smoking area is.. Doesn’t mean they can skirt state and local laws.

          There are MANY ways to deal with companies. Not all problems require a lawyer.
          I did in one phone call something that the union said couldn’t be done.

          I see your point about corruption, but it should make you want to go elsewhere and work for someone else.

          I could link you to stories about a union preventing a sex offender from going to jail, cause he was a shop steward… The company wanted him gone, union prevented his firing. It took video of the whole “incident” being dropped off to the press from the building manager who wouldn’t allow the guy back in the building if he wasn’t fired.

        3. You should get out more… Or at least read a decent paper of watch a proper news service. The GOP are winding back labor laws right across the US – including winding back laws designed to protect children from exploitation. Even before, many employers underpay their staff. Getting satisfaction from the law is not that easy – look at the women trying to get equal pay out of WalMart…

          ps: you won’t ever here anything about this on Fox…

  9. I work for a company that has a union (I’m non union) and from what I can see I’d take the union any day of the week.

    Lets see the non union workers have taken pay cut after pay cut the whole while the CEO’s pay rate has sky rocketed to the stratosphere since he is apparently a genius by following the MBA coloring book and just whacking jobs right and left to get his next bonus. The non-union people at work live in constant fear and really hate the place.

    On the union side wages have maintained, benefits (while being cut back a bit) are still nowhere near the barrel of pain everyone else received. My friends in the union just seem to be happier with life. They also seem to be much more positive about the company since they have someone representing them and more they succeed the better things get.

    The rest of us are just slaves treated like tools that have no value beyond pushing up the stock price and contributing to the executive teams’ ridiculous pay and bonus scale.

    Don’t let anyone fool you into thinking a union is a bad thing. Question why that person would want to sell you on the idea of living with less and having less job security. Seriously! That person is not your friend!

    1. I tend to agree, though I am not generally a union guy.
      Someone here mentioned that a Mac Specialist could sell a million dollars or so of Apple product and only get paid about $30,000 a year. Very true and the same goes for the Mac Genius site of the equation, the repair and such.
      Apple store managers tend to be horrible people, not “Apple People” at all.

      1. I used to be totally anti-union until I actually worked for a company and saw both sides of the fence in action!

        I bought into the crap about union employees being lazy dolts who just milked the company dry, how they paid dues each month and had to waste time going to ‘meetings’ weekly.

        What I found when I met guys in a union was highly skilled employees who showed up to work wearing t-shirts with the company logo, seemed upbeat, positive and worked their tails off because they actually had a livable wage and believed they were making a great product.

        I just had a conversation yesterday with two guys I work with, one in the union and one who is not. The union guy was telling me about how he is excited that his kid is starting college next year and how proud he was that he saved up the money to pay his son’s way.

        The non union guy was telling me about how stressed he has been lately and wanted to know if I had heard the news that all the people in department X were going to get laid off because they decided to outsource the work to another country.

        Two different people (one union member, one not) and two very different conversations!

      2. one of the absolutely BEST things about an apple store is there is NO COMMISSION. since the apple stores first opened in los angeles, i have spent a lot of time talking to reps, one to one workers, genius bar people, not one of which ever tried to push a sale, increase a sale or alter my choices based on anything other than what my needs were. it’s not like they’re just standing there waiting, they’re actually helpful. i’m sure some would take a job for more money, but a lot would not. i’ve gotten to know four personally and they’re good at what they do and they like technology, like explaining to people and love apple products.

      3. “and only get paid about $30,000 a year.”

        I wish… Sitting in my Apple store right now. As a specialist I started as a full time employee around $18,000 gross. Over three years later and four raises, I’m still not at $30,000. I do sell close to $1 million/year myself for Apple though.

        I don’t like unions and wouldn’t join one anyway, but I can see issues. You ever been to a decent size Apple store mid-day on a Saturday? Compared to any retail store in the area of my store, I can almost guarantee 5 times the number of customer than they have at any given time. If I didn’t like it I’d quit, but I’m sure not here for the glorius levels of compensation.

  10. Well, I worked at apple for 6 months and I can throw my two cents. I enjoyed the job fairly well. The managers weren’t awesome and many of them acted selfishly, but I can’t blame apple for all of that. Here is what I think does need to happen:

    Apple (and the rest of the United States) needs to bring windows into their environment. I worked in several places and the more I work in no natural sunlight environments the more I feel like a drone that has a boring life. Plus, natural sunlight is good for you. I would hope Apple would recognize this and make attempts to get light into all of their stores. true some of them have them, but I worked in a mall on the top floor (so it was possible), and there was no light. Would it impact the lighting of the store for the screens? probably, but I still think its important.

    Apple employees stand all day! And its great in the sense that you can potentially lose some weight at work, but it also has its drawbacks. If you don’t wear comfortable shoes, then you start hurting after about 2 hours, which is also bad for your back. Now, sure you can go buy shoes; but I think since it is a drawback of the job…apple should provide you some shoes or an allowance. Maybe it’s cause I am cheap and don’t buy new shoes every year as well.

    That’s all I got really. One of the best places I worked at as far as standard job goes. Oh yeah; and the metrics they have you do for Applecare, Procare, onetoone was kind of ridiculous. But, I dealt with it.

  11. Unionized Apple store experience would be like this.
    Customer: Can you switch on this MBA please? I want to try it.
    Apple union employee:” I am not supposed to touch Mac Book Air(MBA). There is a different Union employee for MBA. I only touch iPods.”
    Customer: ” All Mac side employees are busy and you are not doing anything”
    Union employee: ” I don’t care.. I am not allowed to touch MBA.”
    Customer: ” Screw Apple. I am not buying anything here”
    In a year Steve Jobs will be driving to DC to beg for bail out money.

  12. They’re retail clerks! They’re paid servants. They ring in sales. Are they not being paid on time?

    What is an equitable remuneration for such a position? Salary plus commission, benefits (medical and social) plus paid holidays and a pension? Apparently these are all well and good, but they want a say in how the process is run.

    Did they not initiate this employment relationship? You know, fill out an application, compete through the interview process?

    They don’t have the qualifications/education for any other type of work, or they would be gainfully employed doing it.

    They’re not healers. They’re not artists. They are fighting-for-their rights, foot soldiers in the relentless advance of this godless, faceless socialism that is destroying the very values of what was at one time the greatest country in the world.

    Aaaahhhh! The blessings of parasites.

      1. Whether or not I am any or all of the professions you cited from my post is none of your business/concern. The one thing you need to know – I would have thought is was crystal clear from my post – I am not a supporter of unions.

    1. Take a chill pill, Ayn Rand.

      It’s commonplace for corporations to negotiate with their vendors and suppliers over the cost and terms of the resources those vendors supply. Certainly Apple is continually in negotiations with companies like Foxconn and Samsung over what those companies supply Apple.

      Labor is just another resource and there’s nothing wrong a company negotiating with those supplying that resource.

        1. Ah yes in the face of not having an answer worth a piss its always nice to see people resort to a stance of ‘well you just don’t get it’.

          Well played sir. You have done nothing to convince me.

        2. It is not and never was my intention to convince you of anything. I was responding to a comment about the RIGHT of workers to unionize. I was merely offering an alternative ‘right’ to consider.

          Sorry, I did not mean to offend you.

    1. Eisenhower was the last Republican to think that workers have rights. As was noted above, Walker, Kasich, Snyder, Perry, Scott, and the Koch brothers all have a vested interest in demonizing the unions for their own political gains. They pettifog the public with anecdotes of malfeasance while hiding the real reason that unions tend to support democrats as democrats usually at least have empathy for workers’ rights. Unfortunately, much of the public lacks sufficient critical thinking skills to see through this chicanery; Bubba consistently votes against his own interests.

      1. That is so trite. Surely even you don’t believe it.

        Democrats don’t give a rat’s *ss for worker’s rights or anyone else’s rights. They care exclusively about themselves and the votes that will prolong their careers – which is to vitiate American industry and society. I would allow that Democrats have been successful in giving the impression they care for worker’s rights.

        Is it possible that you do not discern that unions themselves are political, usually in unholy partnership with the Democrats. Who votes for Democrats? Blacks, union workers, homosexuals, feminists, progressives and liberal Jews. With the exception of Jews and a minority of Blacks, all the rest of the rabble are addicted to entitlements (resource drains) of one sort or another.

        Unions are completely self-serving and lacking in soul or empathy. And are more than willing to work with the Democrats. Minnesota is a perfect example.

        Minnesota like most of your states is broke, largely because of crippling regulations and the extortion and intimidation of unionized government workers, with their grossly unmerited salaries, benefits, pensions and job security on a par with kings and dictators. They can never be fired or made to work. And the union repays the Democrats with campaign “donations” from union dues and votes, largely through intimidation, largely due to the self-same lack of critical thinkings skills you attribute to someone named, Bubba.

        When asked to consider roll backs to help overcome the financial crises, the unions strike, demonstrate (riot) illegally take over buildings and the courageous elected Democrats literally flee the state. Talk about showing true colours.

        And who is this person so completely devoid of discernment to whom you give the condescending name “Bubba?” Is he Black? Is he rural? One thing we know for sure, he doesn’t quite come up to your smug, self-satisfied level of intelligence, awareness and impudence.

        1. You, sir, typify “Bubba”. You’ve bought all the talking-points. And from your third paragraph, I begin to see the taint of a diverse racism. Don’t bother responding: you are filtered.

  13. Don’t know anything first hand about this group, so I’ll refrain from passing judgement on them or the claims.
    As to unions in general, I have no problem with them if they are well governed by the membership & are not adversarial out of the box. Have supervised union employees & had no problems with them. Some of the non-union folks were a different story.
    A decent Shop Steward (on site union official) will kick the ass of any goldbricks and save you the trouble.

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