“What do people imagine will happen to the Apple TV? They imagine it will be renamed the iTV and run iOS, the same OS that runs the iPad, the iPhone and the iPod touch,” Seibold writes. “The benefits of such a change are immediately obvious. Apple will sell more apps, people already know how to use iOS so there is no learning curve and Apple can make everything more integrated. The idea is perfection encapsulated, a no brainer, the easiest move in the world, right?”
Seibold writes, “How do you use any of the apps? How do you fire up, say, the Weather app? In iOS you touch it. Chances are your TV doesn’t have a touch sensitive screen. So you can’t launch the app by touching it… In short, expecting Apple to come up with some kludge to make a remote act like your finger on your non-touch screen TV is too much to ask.”
Full article here.
MacDailyNews Take: Devil’s Advocate disclaimer: Apple iTV requires Apple iPad, iPhone, or iPod touch or optional Apple iTV Multi-Touch Remote for iTunes App Store app use. iTV works best with iPad, but also works well with an iPhone, iPod touch or Apple iTV Multi-Touch Remote (sold separately).
Once a Mac or iPhone or iPad or iPod user then positive & possiblities can be imagined / done
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Poor article writer!
You know… it’s bad enough there are these so called “experts / tech journalists” that criticize an Apple product without owning one… but now you got a guy dumping on a product that isn’t out there yet and may not even exist.
Only people that understand Apple (mainly us), know very well that whatever interface is used to manage and control Apple TV w/ iOS will be one that is right for the job. For one thing, as someone already posted (TRRosen)- there’s the iPhone interface and Magic Trackpad that could very well be the pointing and control mechanism. That didn’t even require thinking.
“Getting” Apple is getting the fact that the products aren’t separate entities- they are part of an ecosystem; iTunes / MobileMe > iPad, iPhone, iPod, iCal, AppleMail, AppleTV, BackToMyMac, etc, etc.
“There’s no evidence that people even want to use these things”
Remember that quote… somethings never change.
MAGIC TRACKPAD FOOLS! MAGIC TRACKPAD!
Turns any TV touch! MAGIC TRACKPAD!
Hthere is one important point – if iTV needs an iPad, etc. to operate it, then you just increased the cost o owning it and it can’t be a stand alone product.
Plus, the idea of more app sales is not compelling. Apple already allows you to buy an app once and use it on 5 devices, so unless some iTV specific apps were to come out, apps like games wouldn’t be new sales if already owned.
I don see the compelling reason to put iOS on iTV.
Well how about a simple bluetooth connection to your iphone/ipod touch that integrates a launch service for your iTV and even allows you to play games on a big screen using your iphone/ipod as a wireless wii like controller with all the built in sensors? I think that would be a great hit!
Huh? No one gets up and walks to the TV to change channels. Why would anyone want to get up to touch a weather app on a non-touch screen?!
Apple sees the future. Mr. Siebold sees MicroSoft.
It is not often that we get to see authors of articles featured by MDN to come to this site and actually respond to the fairly impolite criticism (impolite by at least few contributors here). Apparently, nobody had noticed yet that Mr. Seibold actually took time to respond to us.
What he says truly makes sense to me. Those that disagree seem to be coming from a position where they really, really, really want iOS to keep spreading to other hardware, regardless of usability.
iOS is a multi-touch OS. The core of its philosophy is that you touch a screen of the device, it responds directly, intuitively and RIGHT THERE. Controlling an iOS device from another device takes us right back to the old keyboard-mouse-display paradigm of OS X (and other desktop OSes), which is just completely opposite of the iOS core. Apple simply doesn’t go there.
I happen to completely agree with Mr. Seibold.
I have two friends who bought AppleTVs amid all sorts of excitement. Neither uses them now, citing lack of content as the main reason.
Some realities:
– A better interface (iOS) would make no difference whatsoever.
– Nobody wants their 2yr old’s hands all over the TV screen.
– Nobody I know has a touch capableTV.
– Few want a PC experience on their TV, especially one that requires a wireless mouse or trackpad.
In other words, if Apple were to re-work iOS for AppleTV, it wouldn’t be bolted onto AppleTV with some thin GUI layer that would somehow translate some remote physical control input into multi-touch equivalent. It would essentially be reworked into something that current AppleTV already has: a GUI designed to be controlled by a five-button remote control. Any multi-touch control mechanism that doesn’t involve directly touching the display of the device itself simply does not reach the level of purity of design that Apple has shown so far. It could likely work, but it would be completely against Johnny Ive’s beliefs.
Just because it might run iOS doesn’t mean it would have to be compatible with all iOS apps.
Yes, agreed.
I`m working on a similarly “beware” styled article entitled:
Why having round wheels on a car is a very bad idea (four even!)
@Bizlaw
???????
Umm, games are the largest revenue generating category on the app store.
That alone is the MOST compelling reason to put IOS on the damn thing.
@Chris Seibold – Thanks for posting.
I still can see the iOS “vision” for Apple TV- with the ability to run apps & games with the option to optimize for a larger screen- you have everything in one box- add that to whatever tv / movies deals are being worked on… Apple TV is no longer in the hobby category.
We’ll all just have to wait and see.
I have faith that Apple knows what they are doing as far as putting a version of iOS on Apple TV.
The way it has to work is with a new Multi-touch device that can sense your finger hovering above it. Can’t do that currently with an iPhone, iPod touch or Magic Trackpad. Think about playing the example above, Flight Control. How will you know where your finger is going to start drawing the flight path line if you are looking at the TV but touching your iPhone, iPod or trackpad? At least playing a game like that involves direct interaction with a screen on an iPhone. If you have indirect interaction with it via a touchscreen and another display (TV), there needs to be some visual feedback on the screen before you touch it. Even the current Apple TV has the words highlighted with the blue box around it before you select things on screen.
If they are going with a true Multi-Touch device to interact with the AppleTV, then the device needs to be able to sense a hovering finger.
My prediction is that it will be a limited iOS that will let you view content like NetFlix Hulu, and apps like that that will take up the whole screen. If you want the weather or stocks, they will be confined to small apps that move up over the top of your screen, much like Dashboard.
This guy Chris Seibold is right, of course. The defining characteristic of “iOS” is that you touch the screen. You are not going to stand up, wave your arms around and touch your HDTV’s screen to interact with it, then sit back down, even if the HDTV had a huge touch screen. Therefore, by definition, Apple TV will NOT using iOS. It will probably use the same underlying UNIX foundation as iOS and Mac OS X, but it will have its own distinct GUI that is optimize for a very large screen that is five to six feet away from the user, who is leaning back on a comfy couch.
Also (for the MDN Take), the idea of using an iPad, iPhone, or iPod touch as a general remote control device for a TV is a non-starter. Sure, it may be fun and cool to make the “iDevice” into a controller for certain apps and games, but for normal use doing things like, I don’t know, PLAYING VIDEOS, it would be totally stupid. There are so many reasons…
+ The best remote control is one that can be used “blind.” You keep your eyes on the TV screen and not look at the remote. If you draw controls on a featureless flat touch screen, you have to look at it constantly. That means looking back and forth from the HDTV screen to iDevice screen, and refocusing your eyes from something that is five to six feet away to something that is 12 inches away. The ideal remote control is one that you can hold and use without ever looking at it.
+ An iPad is too heavy and large for use as a “works best with” remote control device for a TV. You need one hand to hold it up and the other hand to use whatever interface is on the screen. You must be able to comfortably hold and use a remote control with one hand.
+ What if you are watching TV, and your iDevice is low on power? You have to go plug it in and not watch videos for a while? You have to connect your power adapter nearby and use your iDevice as a “wired” remote control? A remote control should go for months without recharging or changing its battery. You should not have to even think about the fact that it has a battery.
+ What if you are watching TV, but your spouse wants to use the iPad (or other iDevice) for its intended purpose, you know, web browsing and running apps on its OWN SCREEN? A remote control should be dedicated to the device it is remotely controlling, so that it is always available for THAT ONE function.
+ What if you are using your iPhone as your iTV remote control, and you get, you know, a PHONE CALL? Even with multi-tasking, you can’t control your TV while the control device is stuck to your ear.
+ You sit down to watch some TV and you realize you left your iPhone plugged in to your computer. You have to get up, walk to the computer room, unplug it, and bring it to the TV.
+ What if you lose your iPhone or it breaks? Unlike a dedicated iTV remote control, an iPhone does a lot more than sit by the couch on a coffee table. Now, you have no way to control your iTV until you get it replaced for fixed.
Come on folks, I can think of dozens of scenarios of inconveniences and bad usability. Can’t you…? No one is better at usability testing than Apple. They are NOT going to put “iOS” on Apple TV, and they are not going to make your iPad, iPhone, or iPod touch into its primary remote control device.
I do not think the new Apple TV (if one is released) will use iOS per se. I think it will use another variation of OSX.
MacOS X and iOS are both OSX based, biggest difference is iOS doesn’t have a Finder app.
Cocoa & Cocoa Touch are very similar, Touch based events and Mouse events, are both pretty much set up and handled in the same fashion.
I would say there is a 2nd difference with OpenGL and iOS’s OpenGL ES but its really not that much of a difference from a developer stand point.
Using the core OS(X) you create a common base, so all your underlying tools are there, i/o kit, core foundation, OpenGL (ES), so it will be easy for developers to port their current applications.
As for controls / user interaction this is an issue that is easily solved also. Remember the 2 inch touch screen that was leaked a while back, and everyone pondered if it was for a new iPod Shuffle? That could easily be included in a new Apple Remote.
Games could use a controller similar to current consoles, this would also allow for third parties to create controllers or use existing ones already available for the Mac.
Two mistakes most (but not all) people make when it comes to Apple are:
1: Assume what Apple will do next.
Apple’s biggest advantage it has over the rest of the tech industry is doing what no one has thought of before, wether that is taking current technologies and bundling them to create something new, or creating something new all together.
2: Thinking Apple will ever conform to the status quo.
Just because someone else thought of something, yet failed to either implement it properly or how to make it viable does not mean Apple can not. As an example of one aspect of non-conformist.
example: Tablet computing (PC Tablets) and touch screen phones /pda (Palm, Handspring, even Newton), both have been around for years and years. Concepts are good, implementation sucked, till Apple showed the rest of the industry how.
How about the recently released wireless, bluetooth, mac trackpad?! Sweet!
ken1w pretty much summed up what I posted.
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Had I seen his post before I started typing in my own, I would not have posted
What about Plex. They are announcing something on 9-1-2010 also. Plex has an App Type store. Perhaps Apple has / is going to purchase Plex and integrate their software into the Apple TV and distribute Apps thru that store as opposed to Apple iTunes like for the IOS devices.
Make what is on your iPhone, iPad etc. mirrored on the tv screen, a screen mode. Turn on using remote app, press home button once, you are at first screen on your iPhone. Hit the weather app icon, up it comes on tv screen . Play games same way.
It’s pretty obvious the iTV will run iTV apps, not standard iPhone apps…
The touch comes from holding your ipod touch/iphone/ipad sideways , and using that as a game controller..
if you have no ipod touch, well you won’t bother playing apps, you’ll just stick to standard functions with the little white remote
@ Jax44
There are some technical hurdles to what you describe. First, you are describing the equivalent of the doing Screen Sharing (or VNC) between Macs. There will be a large amount of data being transmitted over the wireless network, from your iPhone/iPad/touch to your wireless router to the iTV, especially of there is a lot of motion on screen such as with games. Even if the router is 802.11n, there will be noticeable delays and jerkiness, especially with other computers using the same network, or if the signal is somewhat degraded at the TV’s location.
Second, iOS does not have a pointer on the screen, so you have to look down at your iPhone/iPad/touch screen to see what you are touching, if that “mirroring screen” approach is used. If you are constantly looking down at your iPhone/iPad/touch screen to play some game, what’s the point of mirroring it on the big screen.
@ ken 1w:
Point taken on games, what about other apps, to launch?. Hit the MDN app icon to launch on screen, scroll to read, etc..
I’m already dissatisfied with Obama’s replacement…
I don’t think Steve would invest more money in AppleTV or iTV if he could not get the studios to come along to the party to provide content. Please remember his earlier comments. I think AppleTV will remain as it is – which is just fine with me.