A reviewer at the iTunes app store recently rejected a simple application Joel Comm had submitted due to “limited functionality.”
In this video, Comm appeals directly to Steve Jobs to make the review process more transparent and consistent:
Direct link via YouTube here.
Full article here.
MacDailyNews Take: Yeah, that’s right, we said “idiot.” Where’s the consistency, Apple?
Once again: We don’t know if Apple’s problem is: (a) the quality of the staff they’ve hired to flip the coins they use to determine app approvals; (b) if said staff is totally overwhelmed; (c) if said “staff” is really just that lone not-so-smart MobileMe launch guy whom the new, more mellow Steve didn’t have the heart to fire; or (e) all of the above, but they really ought to have worked it out by now.
Apple’s only considerations should be to make sure apps do not harm the device and/or encourage physically harming others, directly or indirectly. That’s why we immediately condemned that despicable “Baby Shaker” app and applauded Apple for nixing it. Of course, it never should have been approved in the first place, but we already knew that Apple’s app approval process had major issues long before that particular SNAFU. (And, by the way,” for those that want to bring up FPS or similarly violent games: A defenseless infant is actually different than an armed soldier. If you’re ever in an actual war, you’re supposed to fight the enemy; if you’re ever holding a real baby, you’re never, ever to shake him or her.)
It’s ok Steve- I got this one…
From here on out- NO MORE fart apps, knock on wood apps, woo buttons, following eyes, etc.
Not that big of a deal.
No UNDUE offense intended, but isn’t it conceivable that Joel Comm is an idiot too?
Seriously, Comm’s stupid novelty apps are an insult to Apple and its users. I think it’s great that Apple is deciding to clean up the App Store by beginning to reject apps that don’t do anything. To point out that this change is inconsistent with past behavior is irrelevant. ALL change is inconsistent with the past.
I also commend Apple for not retroactively yanking already-approved apps from the store just to preserve consistency. Grandfathering in all of those stupid apps that Comm gratuitously demonstrated was the right thing to do.
“Move along ya lookie loos, there’s nothing to see here.”
— Chief Wiggins
OK Joel, you had your 3:05 min of fame, now get over it.
It’s an easy solution. Every app gets approved provided it isn’t illegal, damaging to the operation of the ipone or changing/replacing core functionality of the phone. Then apps are split into two categories by reviewers: Useful functionality/No useful functionality.
They could go back through all the apps. Then they might find that the app store only has about 2000 useful apps rather than 100,000 apps most of which are useless. Then when I’m looking for apps I can completely avoid apps like iFart and ‘Cha-ching’.
I need this feature. I can’t find anything in the app store because of these stupid apps.
Sum Jung Gai,
If someone wants buy an app that does nothing that’s their business. That’s the beauty of capitalism. People wouldn’t create these apps if people didn’t buy them. It should NOT be Apple’s call if an app is worth it or not, just if it violates its rules and terms.
I just want an Easy button.
looks like apple is upping its standards now that its established its app store’s dominance. this is a good thing.
He makes a good point. Steve …
make a real app…
jackass
Apple is absolutely right – stop spamming the app store with “5 lines of code” applications. Its already hard to find good applications because of this useless spam… I went to Joel’s website. I can’t believe his app submission was anything more than a ploy to get publicity for him or his farting app. ICK.
Nowhere do you say what this app supposedly does.
Apple owes it to us to prevent bloating the App Store with juvenile, worthless crap that just distracts us from the better stuff. “Total app freedom” means dealing with acres of spam, crap that does not do what it says it will, and wasting good money on it, too.
Analogy: not having a spam filter on your email, would you prefer that?
I thank you, Apple, for being my first tier firewall against app spam.
Tyk, developers like Comm can write apps that do nothing to their hearts’ content. They can write fart web apps and sell them on the Internet or give them away for free. But that doesn’t mean that Apple needs to sell them in its store. I wouldn’t write an open letter to Nordstrom complaining that they don’t sell Whoopee cushions or Manny Hoes. Would you? I mean, you’re welcome to. Freedom of speech and all that. But you would be an idiot.
Cheers!
Too bad Joel doesn’t put as much creativity into his apps as he does in this video.
If Apple had a WAY BETTER way to sort, find and locate apps I could really care less if this app (and apps like it) were in the App Store. But the App Store is so choked with useless apps that it’s a real pain in the ass … therefore I’d just as soon the Crapp Apps were excluded. But – they should be consistent.
Talking about idiots, MDN is full of idiots as well. To me this guys apps are not only not appropriate but stupid as hell. Why give him notice here, let him go screw up Droid. The fart apps and similar ilk should all be relegated to a special area of the iTunes store for the children who own an iPod Touch. Leave them off the adult iPhone owners area. It is almost impossible to find the good apps for all the crap.
@Rob – Joel’s also the co-creator of Yahoo games, a NY Times best selling author, and well known internet millionaire. He’s had a lot more than 3 minutes of fame.
I have a hole in MDN’s approach to App Store approvals. If war games are accepted because you’re killing an “enemy” and baby apps are not accepted because you’re hurting an innocent life… what about games like Grand Theft Auto? Going around the city clubbing hookers and killing people on the streets is acceptable? They seem pretty innocent to me. I’m of the belief that all 3 should be permitted in the App Store. Something that is “immoral” to one person is not to someone else.
@ ross , @ Sum Jung Gai, et. al:
So all of you agree that Apple *should* have the final word on what software you install on your iPhone/iPod Touch? Really? Would you feel the same way if Apple put a similar policy in place for Macs?
I see two solutions to this problem:
1. Apple does what MDN suggests- approve all apps that are not harmful to the device/network and do not break the law.
2. Allow alternatives to the AppStore, and keep a higher standard for any apps available through the AppStore.
When a user buys an iPhone or iPod Touch, it is theirs. They own it, and can do virtually anything they wish with it. Apple trying to use licensing as a way to control what people do with their devices is just wrong.
If you feel that Apple is in the right in this behavior, then you should feel that Ford could “license” you to use their automobiles, and require that you only have them serviced at Ford dealerships and only buy gas from Ford-branded stations. After all, you could always just not buy a Ford and go with another manufacturer. The problem arises when *all* of the manufacturers implement the same policy. Then, as a consumer, you’re screwed. But that would be a-okay with all of you, right?
How about voting 10% of all apps off the store?
Embarrassing. The video, I mean. And the app.
I’m surprised, and very pleased with the tone of reader responses. Crap is crap, and too much of it clogs the best of pipes. Unless referred by someone I know I have ceased searching the App Store for a useful App. You have to wade through too much crap to find them.
WHY would ANYONE want a corporation limiting YOUR choices? Granted, this logic does not apply to harmful or repugnant content, but novelty apps are just that – a fun novelty.
It is NOT OK for a government, or a business, to determine what I want. If people want it, they can d’l it. If they don’t want it – they don’t d’l it. SIMPLE, huh?
People – many of you seem to feel ok with allowing your basic freedoms to be eroded. This is a dangerous way of thinking. Open your eyes. This is not a Florida Condo Association! Get your nose out of everybody’s business.
It is NONE of your business if I want to put a stupid app on MY iPhone. And it is NONE of Apples business if I want to put a stupid app on MY iPhone.
I would remove all the applications the guy listed.
Idiots.
“When a user buys an iPhone or iPod Touch, it is theirs. They own it, and can do virtually anything they wish with it. Apple trying to use licensing as a way to control what people do with their devices is just wrong.”
That dog don’t bark dude.
Apple doesn’t host the softwares you can put on your Mac.
Apple doesn’t pay for the pipe to deliver the software you put on your Mac.
When you agree to put your App on Apple’s servers, be delivered over Apple’s pipe, Apple retains the right to decide if THEY want to store and deliver it. Most of these Apps are free which means that Apple incurs costs without earning a fee for the storage and delivery of the App.
App Store volume has reached a point where the herd has to be culled, so that the cream can be more easily found. The paid Apps are the ones that will survive and flourish.
Apple is just telling the market that enough is enough. If you want to write crap then do it for the Droid.
Developers of real, paid Apps are going to love this change in policy, and they are the ones that you, me and Apple are going to want in the future.
Oh, and I bet that the same people who want these crap-apps complain the loudest about AT&T;service…
Why allow precious bandwidth to be wasted on that junk?
Tony,
go jump off a bridge or something. People like you need to be banned from existence. Humanity needs moral guidelines. Let me guess- murder is in your morally ok realm too? Seriously, the more that is allowed, the more people push the envelope. The line has to be drawn somewhere, AND NOT BUDGE.
I like how everyone throws around the word “transparency”. Obama, etc. I don’t think they are using it right. Especially Obama.
Anyhow, after having an interview at an Apple Store, I can say that Apple does have some serious issues within, and this is probably the most visible of them.
This is getting extremely embarrassing for Apple, and is just completely ridiculous. Apple, get your act together!
Comm is absolutely in the right here. There is no consistency. I have a similar app on my phone that’s called Service Bell. It’s just an image of a service bell that rings (much like Comm’s app) when tapped. It has very minimal function. But it’s fun. Apple is simply wrong on this.
Apple can’t seem to win. They get critiqued for stupid apps, offensive apps, apps no one would want,and then they get critiqued for not approving crap. However, some really good or harmless stuff also gets banned, only to return the next day. yes, there are some idiots involved here- on Apple’s part, the developers, and, of course, journalists.
Signal to noise ratio, morons. Get it? Shit apps are noise, and people do not have the resources to shift through the noise. It’s that simple. Go develop shit on the “open” android. Find me an efficient mechanism in the “free market” that allows the good stuff to rise to the top when entrance costs are effectively zero. It’s computationally, from a consumer standpoint, impossible, at least very arbitrary!
make a better app.
it’s not that big of a deal.
Steve
Sent from my iPhone
He has a point… I mean… why is a “woo” button approved but not “ca-ching” button? It is a dumb app… sure… but so is woo, and the likes. What is good for the goose should be good for the gander too.
The Dude abides.
@ Zul Zorander
You are absolutely right. “It is NONE of your business if I want to put a stupid app on MY iPhone. And it is NONE of Apples business if I want to put a stupid app on MY iPhone.”
And you can if you really want to.
However, it is NONE of your business if Apple doesn’t want to put a stupid app in their store.
The real problem is that with over 100,00 apps available, it can be quite difficult to find what you want on the App Store.
If the App Store had a powerful, comprehensive Advanced Search function, this entire debate would be moot.
Why not show the ratings of every app in the search results?
Why not show total downloads/purchases of every app in the search results?
The App Store is much more difficult to navigate than it needs to be. Really!
Joel Comm is right.
They should take all those stupid apps off too.
People keep talking about crap apps.. that’s not the point of the video, it’s about consistency in the approval process for apps in general.
Comm could probably care less if the Kaching app got approved. he’s got iFart, iVote, and a new multiplayer gaming platform Gamedock coming out..
Yes, the guy’s made better apps (and a ton of money for Apple).. give him a break.
I don’t mind Apple’s approval process. It’s a privilege to have access to a high quality product such as the iPhone and a high quality service as the App Store. I expect to find such apps in the App Store. Apps that are rejected need to be brought up to the standards of Apple rather than having Apple lower theirs.
The same can be said about other things of high quality. When I eat at a fancy restaurant, I expect high quality ingredients, cooking, and service. When I buy a top performance car, I expect high quality parts, construction, and maintenance service. If I feel my “rights” or “freedoms” to lower quality products and services are being infringed, I won’t demand that I be served hamburger instead of steak or be given a Pinto instead of a Porsche.
If anyone wants a “ka-ching” app, baby shaker app, or any other rejected app, they should get a lower quality device.
Well said topshot. I agree wholeheartedly. Maybe Apple will get a clue and do as you suggest.
Dave, you are right! That is exactly what people here are missing. It is not that it is a crap app, and to me it is, but to approve one crap app and not another that is very similar sounds like the guidelines within the App Store approval process are not being followed the same by each approver.
The Dude abides.
plugging up the appstore with useless apps like this, that will use an icon on the iphone’s limited home screens, is going to ruin the appstore for everyone
nobody wants to wade through this crap to get something useful
i agree with Apple on this one
they should not have accepted the others, but they already did and maybe now they will take them down to be fair
at a certain point, there is almost no investment in developing an app
for example the “ka-ching button” shown can be made in a few minutes, literally, by any iphone programmer. no investment, no real creativity, no functionality
rejected and rightly so
the platform is not intended to just make some crap-app developers rich
how about solving some real problems and elevating the platform?
Piss on em. Glad it was rejected.
Great comments!
As far as the haters, my track record speaks for itself for anyone who cares to check it out.
The point of the video is inconsistency, not whether or not you see value to the app. To be so short-sighted and miss the point amazes me.
Joel
and by the way, if developers want to keep useless apps on their phones they can, and they can share the code base with other developers to put useless apps on their phones too, but don’t look for the app store to elevate a crap app as if it has some real value or creativity
this kind of stuff can turn the platform into a joke and make Apple look like a bunch of immature twiddlers
@Shiva
Buying a car and getting an with a contract iPhone is different. If you buy your iPhone without a contract I would guess you can do anything you want. But most of us get our phones thru AT&T;so that is more like leasing a Ford. Do you think you can swap the engine or remove the seats. Try it and you will find you have not leased it, you are now obligated to restore it or buy it.
@ Joel
The point is the app is actually crap and I could make it in 5-10 minutes start to finish, actually completely in interface buillder with no programming whatsoever
Thats not an app that should be in the appstore
If you let a market get flooded with no strainer for quality, the entire market sucks
At least your fart app has a bunch of options which makes it creative and zany
Yeah, the other apps should not have been approved and maybe now Apple should remove them. But that does not mean that your app should automatically get reviewed. That’s the point.
As far as you wanting more transparency, at a certain point Apple needs to make decisions or else it is not a good model. The AppStore needs Apple’s involvement and oversight in approving apps. That brings piece of mind to users and consistency in delivery for developers.
ithankyou for your funny video by the way, but I caution you against acting condescending to Steve Jobs, not so cool
I wasn’t condescending to Steve. I was applauding him. At the same time, I was appealing to him to bring consistency.
The point IS not whether you can create the app in a matter of minutes or not.
How many minutes should one spend for an app to not be crap?
Look at The Moron Test. The thing has been on top for months now.
How about iBeer? Glug glug glug… seriously.
We’re not all about novelty apps.
iVote has been in the store as one of the first 500 apps. It’s doing quite well and is an excellent piece of code.
Our Mobile Syndication Solutions platform is getting ready to roll out soon.
And GameDock is one of the most sophisticated pieces of app code ever developed. Hopefully Apple will approve it soon so we can share it with the world.
Yes, if Apple is going to reject KaChing button, there are 300 other buttons they need to bounce. Just be consistent!
Joel
As I’ve said a number of times… it’s Apple’s store and they every right to their own processes. It works sometimes, but not always. There are growing pains.
I’ve collaborated on projects where we got no response at all for a rejection. So, “limited functionality” isn’t not the worst feedback. How can a new developer make improvements if there’s zero guidance? That’s actually okay too, but it will drive developers away. (This may be something Apple wants, given the number of apps out now.)
I like this response to Phil Schiller’s recent comment.
“Apple Puts iPhone Developers On Hold”
http://bit.ly/5ljmqy
(Full disclosure: I’ve collaborated with this company.)
@ Joel
1. Ok, so what you want is for all the other button crap apps to be taken down because the were hastily approved in the early days of iphone and because you are jealous that your 100% crap app was not now reviewed since Apple has become more careful? Pretty mean spirited
2. I agree that your video is condescending to Steve Jobs. Seems like you think you are smarter than everyone. Poor manners bloke
3. You told us to check you background and I did. 100% self-promotional self-aggrandizing meglomaniac
You can contribute to IT or you can turn it into a mess. Its up to you.
(I thought the ifart should have been rejected period if you want my 2 pence)
It is Apple’s App Store so they can decide what they want to sell. If you don’t like it, buy a Droid or Storm or Pre.
It is really that simple.
I think many of you completely missed the point.
He isn’t saying his application is God’s gift to apps, just that it deserves to be included in the app store as much as any of those applications he cited.
I agree with him and I hope Apple does something about this approval process soon. It’s going to hurt eventually.
I agree that the other crap ones should be trashed as well. Palm, Droid and other smartphone owners are right in ridiculing the silly iPhone apps. There should be adults deciding what is there, what is going to hurt is more ifart nonsense. Joe can write his silly programs for the PSP and other children’s systems. Leave iPhone to the adults.
Apps are supposed to evolve over time and if it’s getting where this developer isn’t able to cut the mustard, then someone else is going to have to do it. Survival of the fittest my friend!
A note to all mobile developers, create all your applications and summit them into Windows Mobile Marketplace. iPhone is a failure and so does all of their inferior toys from CRAPple.
http://www.bing.com When it comes to decisions that matter, Bing & Decide
For the record, there are fart apps for Blackberry and Android as well.
But I guess those are superior devices with higher standards.
This is NOT about the KaChing button. It’s about consistency.
That developer is ABSOLUTELY RIGHT (and kudos for producing an entertaining and respectful video to make your point)! Developers have given the iPhone it’s number one distinction in the marketplace which competitors can’t touch – 100,000 applications!
All he’s asking for is a level playing field. A developer needs to know that if he follows the rules, the application will get approved. This is a fundamental cornerstone of the whole idea of a meritocracy, which is what makes the App Store so great.
But as it stands now, the rules seem be applied inconsistently. Developers will be discouraged from spending their time and resources to develop apps if they have doubts about the approval process.
Steve,
Apply the rules consistently. It’s no big deal.
-Developers
Someone is pretending to be me…
This comment is NOT mine…
“Allright settle down. I get it. Just because I am successful you think I am arrogant. I have a Mac and an iPhone and as an Apple customer I have every right to demand whatever I want from Apple. They have every right to disregard my demands. As for Steve Jobs, he is great but he needs to make my ka-ching app get approved ASAP so that I can make some ka-ching off it and off the poor saps that waste money on my silly little half apps. Comm out.”
Just setting the record straight.
@Joel
Perhaps a reasonable compromise would be for Apple to produce a category in the ITunes store that is Novelty Apps. Your critique of fairness may have the unintended effect of having all such apps of “limited functionality” removed from the App store. That would certainly appeal to your sense of fairness while not achieving your desired result. The approach in your video is more likely to have this effect because you take the tone of being critical of a system that you are dependent on for approval of your work rather than a helpful suggestion and a follow up as to why apps like yours are in any way good for the app store ecosystem. You present a strong argument in precedent but a severely weak argument as to why apps like yours should be admitted and the one’s already admitted should not be banished.
As for you neo-free marketers out there you have the capability to jailbreak your phones and put any garbage you want on your IPhone but you can’t dictate to Apple what to allow in their stores and support on their platforms. I’m with the majority of posters here that feel the App store has become unwieldily. Even apps that are useful in functionality are sometime lacking in completeness. Clogging the pipes with more novelty apps is not the answer.
i’ve got a turkey gobble button coming out to the appstore soon
it will say “gobble gobble” when you press the turkey picture! kaching for me and right in time for thanksgiving!
@ Joel
not sure which of any of these comments are actually from you but happy thanksgiving and hope you get your app problem sorted out with Apple
i think apple should remove all the low functionality apps or else make a crap app category that does not get front page press by the appstore and apple
No wonder the approval process is so difficult, just look at the different views on this forum.
Apple needs to let the developers develop, even if theyre dumb apps. The last thing Apple needs is a developer revolt.
Planar, it should be easy to see which are from me and which are a 12-year old fanboy having fun.
Everyone has an opinion and no one is perfect.
@bobchr I think you’re approach is a valid one. Why not have Apple endorsed apps and a section that is more experimental?
Any direction would be fine actually. Accept all apps, accepts apps only from trusted, accept arbitrarily.
I think what’s been revealed with all the recent dissent is that Apple has not correctly set developer expectations nor communicated well.
Many complaints aren’t that developers don’t like the rules, but that they don’t know them or they don’t seem to be applied consistently.
At the end of the day, I suspect this is really a result of Apple being so overwhelmed and short-staffed in the review process.
No one should be allowed to decide what I put on my iPhone. It is censorship, and bad. If I want to make a fool of myself by using something like iFart, then that is my decision.
On the other hand, I have not installed any new apps for months, since I don’t want to wade through a pile of crap apps to find something useful.
Apple should turn this into something positive.
– Step 1: Create an “open” app store, where every possible app is listed. Download at your own risk, and show off with silly or tasteless apps as much as you want.
– Step 2 : Create a “premium” app store. All the apps there have been verified and approved. All the crap is removed from the premium store, only the useful apps stay.
It’s about freedom, and freedom to decide what you want, with respect for every one else’s taste or decision.
Just my 5 cents from Europe
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why not just have a novelty section and be done with it.
Wow! That app must have been a huge investment in time and effort, not to mention ingenuity.
Is Comm’s app stupid? Yes. Is it any more stupid than a zillion others out there? No.
Really, there needs to be consistency in this process. Or a separate category for all the “crap apps”.
Apple Steve Jobs to Joel Comm:
The “Ka-Ching” has minimal user functionality for an iPhone app and is rejected.
“It’s not that big of a deal”!
Hugs and Kisses
Steve
Yeah Steve. Do something about it before people dump the App Store and work for some other platforms. (and very great video by the way) ^_^
I’m can see Sum Jung Gai’s viewpoint when he says:
“No UNDUE offense intended, but isn’t it conceivable that Joel Comm is an idiot too?”
Maybe it’s a case of Apple coming to the view that the sort of apps being approved need to have a higher standard than many of the apps we’ve seen in the past.
I don’t begrudge Joel Comm’s right to make money from making apps. However I do object to the concept of being surrounded by farting iPhones while I’m on a train for 45 minutes. I have an iPhone too and I won’t be contributing to that.
I would buy the Chaching button. Back off reviewers!!!!! Keep the apps safe and stable, respect copyrights etc., and then rate everything else. It’s far better to have a stupid app category than a stupid app review process.
I’m a Mac fanboy and if you had a stupid apps category or whatever you wanted to call it, silly, useless, novelty, I would actively use that search category. the same goes for tasteless, or political, or adult content, (accessed only by a second level account process) and/or parental controls.
As an APPL stockholder, I’m asking you to get it together before somebody else eats your lunch and you have pissed away another opportunity to lead a platform for a generation or two.
the only app I can find by this guy is basically an app that dupes his website. no wonder it was rejected. in fact I can’t help but wonder if he did it so he could be rejected and have an excuse to post his little rant.
as for the whole control issue, Apple is trying to make sure you have a working phone when you need it and not have it bricked by some yahoo that can’t write decent code, what’s wrong with that.
and i believe that Grand Theft Auto has an adults only rating so the parents can block it if they choose to. but so called mature adults can leave parental controls turned off and those no yelling about censorship. however Baby Shaker could actually be illegal in some states because it promotes the notion of child abuse as cool
Let’s take up a collection and fund some schooling for “I’m a PC”. He at least needs a spelling and grammar tutor.
Now watch him quickly scroll back to his post and try to figure out what is wrong with it. I guess English is not his native language.
@WTF his company is infomedia, search that.. iFart, iVote etc
Are people actually watching the video before they post comments?
Doesn’t matter if the app is crap, that’s not the point of the video..
@Dave
The video may have it’s own point but that doesn’t negate people from finding other issues with it.
Just because you don’t like the app, doesn’t mean it isn’t worthy, for some it is… for me not at all… but that isn’t the point is it? All he is asking for is a framework to work in. Apple… tell him why his is different from the rest, don’t waste his time? Why is his sound, any different from the Whooo button? And for the knucklehead that says an free application isn’t making Apple money…. your clueless.. At the very least… it’s a number and Apple sure seems to be marketing that number… aren’t they…. 100,000 Apps “insert Whooo button here”… Every iphone is unique, simply due to the applications the user has selected… Time to by a new phone? ….. can’t switch if the applications aren’t duplicated on other platforms.
Thinking about useless apps and wasting money for it, I assumed that it happens because of no MoneyBack policy in AppStore. In common stores (online and offline) it’s common practice. Why not implement it to the AppStore? technically Apple can do it.