On the morning of the launch of the Vista operating system earlier this week, Microsoft chairman Bill Gates talked with Newsweek’s Steven Levy about the new version of Windows.
He also shared his views on the Apple “Get a Mac” television campaign and more.
Steven Levy: You also talk about improved security in Vista.
Bill Gates: Yes, although security is a [complicated concept]. You’re [referring to] the fact that there have been some security updates already for Windows Vista. This is exactly the way it should work. When somebody comes to us [after discovering a vulnerability] we’ve got [a fix] before there is any exploit. So it’s totally according to plan, and that’s why we have the whole Windows Update thing. We made it way harder for guys to do exploits. The number [of violations] will be way less because we’ve done some dramatic things [to improve security] in the code base. Apple hasn’t done any of those things.
Levy: Are you bugged by the Apple commercial where John Hodgman is the PC, and he has to undergo surgery to get Vista?
Gates: I’ve never seen it. I don’t think the over 90 percent of the [population] who use Windows PCs think of themselves as dullards, or the kind of klutzes that somebody is trying to say they are.
MacDailyNews Take: We call bullshit on that one: Gates has seen the Apple ads. Every single one and multiple times at that. If not, he’s not doing his job, which seems to be to spread FUD about Apple products, lie to interviewers, and pretend that Microsoft and innovation go hand-in-hand. If you believe Gates, we’ve got a bridge in Brooklyn with your name on it. If Gates had never seen a “Get a Mac” ad, he would not be able to state his next sentence about dullards and klutzes (riiight, someone just told him about the ads, instead of simply showing them to him). Most Windows PC users don’t think of themselves as dullards, but Gates sure does.
Levy: How about the implication that you need surgery to upgrade?
Gates: Well, certainly we’ve done a better job letting you upgrade on the hardware than our competitors have done. You can choose to buy a new machine, or you can choose to do an upgrade. And I don’t know why [Apple is] acting like it’s superior. I don’t even get it. What are they trying to say? Does honesty matter in these things, or if you’re really cool, that means you get to be a lying person whenever you feel like it? There’s not even the slightest shred of truth to it.
MacDailyNews Take: Gates is in rare form. Lying through his teeth while calling everyone else a liar. This guy’s gonna die in a hotel room in Vegas with 36-inch long fingernails if he keeps up with this level of delusion. Virtually every independent review that compares the two OSes says that Apple’s Mac OS X is clearly superior to Windows Vista. This with Mac OS X Leopard coming out in a few months. No wonder Gates has lost it. Most independent reviews discourage doing an upgrade from XP to Vista; “buy a new machine for Vista” is what they recommend when they’re not saying “switch to a Mac” outright.
Levy: In many of the Vista reviews, even the positive ones, people note that some Vista features are already in the Mac operating system.
Gates: You can go through and look at who showed any of these things first, if you care about the facts. If you just want to say, “Steve Jobs invented the world, and then the rest of us came along,” that’s fine. If you’re interested, [Vista development chief] Jim Allchin will be glad to educate you feature by feature what the truth is. I mean, it’s fascinating, maybe we shouldn’t have showed so publicly the stuff we were doing, because we knew how long the new security base was going to take us to get done. Nowadays, security guys break the Mac every single day. Every single day, they come out with a total exploit, your machine can be taken over totally. I dare anybody to do that once a month on the Windows machine. So, yes, it took us longer, and they had what we were doing, user interface-wise. Let’s be realistic, who came up with [the] file, edit, view, help [menu bar]? Do you want to go back to the original Mac and think about where those interface concepts came from?
MacDailyNews Take: Bill Gates is a liar currently trying to buy his way into heaven with ill-gotten gains. He’s also a vile, weasely dweeb with a massive, yet never-so-richly-deserved, inferiority complex. Steve Jobs has masterfully pushed all of Gates’ buttons and set the stage for interviewers to do the same which has obviously driven the nasty little bastard completely, utterly, and totally out of his mind. Tell us again how you brought Parental Controls to an OS for the first time with Vista, Billy boy. By the way, Bill Atkinson came up with “the file, edit, view, help menu bar” on the Mac. More about the history of where and how the Mac’s user interface originated, from the actual people who did the work, here. Oh, and thanks for the offer, Bill, we would love to be educated by Microsoft’s (former) Windows Chief Jim Allchin:
I’m not sure how the company lost sight of what matters to our customers, both business and home, the most, but in my view we lost our way. I think our teams lost sight of what bug-free means, what resilience means, what full scenarios mean, what security means, what performance means, how important current applications are, and really understanding what the most important problems our customers face are. I see lots of random features and some great vision, but that does not translate into great products… I would buy a Mac today if I was not working at Microsoft. – Excerpt from a 2004 email from Jim Allchin to Steve Balmer and Bill Gates
Full interview here.
MacDailyNews Take: The reviews of Windows Vista speak for themselves. “Chrome-plated turd” is not ambiguous. Gates sees the end. His free ride on the back of ignorance is over. Gates sees his legacy, especially in comparison to the one Steve Jobs will leave, and it’s not pretty. Does he really think that he can buy – or lie – his way out of it? Not likely, Karma’s a bitch not easily escaped.
Related articles:
TIME Magazine: Microsoft’s Windows Vista ‘an embarassment to the good name of American innovation’ – February 02, 2007
Microsoft: Vista’s ‘speech recognition’ can be hijacked so that PC tells itself to delete files – February 01, 2007
Windows honcho Allchin retires from Microsoft on Vista launch day; now free to buy his Mac – February 01, 2007
Microsoft’s Windows Vista: Five years for a chrome-plated turd – January 30, 2007
Those unfamiliar with Apple’s Mac OS X may be impressed with Windows Vista – January 29, 2007
Digit: ‘Microsoft’s Windows Vista may be the best reason yet to buy an Apple Mac’ – January 29, 2007
Pioneer Press: Windows Vista shows ‘Apple is an innovation engine; Microsoft, not so much’ – January 29, 2007
Windows Vista disappoints, so get a Mac – January 29, 2007
Microsoft emails reveal serious Mac OS X Tiger envy – January 26, 2007
Analyst: Microsoft’s Windows Vista could be an opportunity for Apple – January 26, 2007
CNET Reviews Windows Vista: Is that all? Clunky and not very intuitive vs. Mac OS X; warmed-over XP – January 24, 2007
Security firm: 38-percent of malware already Windows Vista-compatible – January 22, 2007
Mossberg: Microsoft’s Windows Vista offers lesser imitations of Apple’s Mac OS X features – January 18, 2007
Windows Vista disappointment drives longtime ‘Microsoft apologist’ to Apple’s Mac OS X – January 17, 2007
InformationWeek Review: Apple’s Mac OS X shines in comparison with Microsoft’s Windows Vista – January 06, 2007
NY Times’ Pogue reviews Microsoft’s Windows Vista: ‘Looks, Locks, Lacks’ – December 14, 2006
Forbes: Microsoft Windows Vista boss suffers from Mac envy – December 12, 2006
Windows chief Allchin 2004 email: I’d buy a Mac if I didn’t work for Microsoft – December 11, 2006
Unlike Microsoft’s Windows Vista, Apple’s Mac OS X Leopard will create no new jobs – December 12, 2006
15-year Windows vet tries Apple Mac: ‘My God! This is amazing!’ – December 04, 2006
Microsoft’s Windows Vista: obsolete on arrival? – December 04, 2006
InformationWeek: Now that Vista is the past, let’s look at the future: Apple’s Mac OS X Leopard – December 02, 2006
Microsoft’s Windows Vista and Office 2007 releases generate yawns – December 02, 2006
Dave Winer: ‘Microsoft isn’t an innovator, and never was – they are always playing catch-up’ – December 01, 2006
Harvard Medical School CIO picks Mac OS X over Linux and Windows – November 30, 2006
Microsoft’s Windows Vista vulnerable to malware from 2004 – November 30, 2006
Microsoft Windows Vista developers used Apple Macs for inspiration – November 27, 2006
Apple Macs can run more software than Windows PCs – October 30, 2006
Microsoft’s Windows Vista is basically Microsoft’s version of Mac OS 9.3 – October 11, 2006
Top Windows developer dumps Microsoft’s ‘pile of crap’ for Apple’s Mac OS X – September 12, 2006
$399 for Windows Vista Ultimate?! (Hint: Get a Mac) – August 29, 2006
Apple’s Mac OS X Leopard is 64-bit done right, unlike Microsoft’s Windows Vista kludge – August 14, 2006
Microsoft Windows Vista: If you can’t innovate… try to impersonate Apple’s Mac OS X – August 10, 2006
Analyst: Apple’s new Mac OS X Leopard sets new bar, leaves Microsoft’s Vista in the dust – August 08, 2006
Microsoft botches another copy job: Windows Vista Flip3D vs. Apple Mac OS X Exposé – June 26, 2006
Windows Vista rips-off Mac OS X at great hardware cost (and Apple gains in the end) – June 13, 2006
Computerworld: Microsoft Windows Vista a distant second-best to Apple Mac OS X – June 02, 2006
Thurrott: Microsoft going to get eaten alive over Windows Vista’s resemblance to Apple’s Mac OS X – March 09, 2006
NY Times’ Pogue on Gates’ CES demo: Most of Vista features unadulterated ripoffs from Apple Mac OS X – January 05, 2006
Thurrott: many of Windows Vista’s upcoming features appeared first in Apple’s Mac OS X – September 26, 2005
PC World: Microsoft innovation – an oxymoron – September 14, 2005
Dude, you got a Dell? What are you, stupid? Only Apple Macs run both Mac OS X and Windows! – April 05, 2006
A lifetime inferiority complex is finally coming to a head. Bill is gonna go postal.
Wow! Gates has lost it completely. The end is nigh.
Gates has truly lost his mind, my friends.
Microsoft needs to put out a patch for that bug up Bill’s ass…
What a retard. Gates, concentrate on giving away your ill-gotten gains to Africa. You don’t belong in this business.
The Emporer has no clothes.
Great take MDN! Lying bastard.
I love this guy. He talks about the 90% of the Windows users as if they CHOSE Windows!!!! He claims Windows has the market share it does people because people CHOOSE
to have Windows!!!
If you have a Dell or HP computer, you have NO choice but to get it with Windows.
Does Dell offer Linux? ( Redhat or Ubuntu? ) People are scared stiff to change from what they know, Windows. I think this is why MAcs are slowly edging in on the market. Because some people are confident enough to make that switch.
This guy needs to be challenged much more often in interviews.
MDN please set up an interview with this clown.
Too late to shut the gates… the Jobs is done
Gate: “We made it way harder for guys to do exploits.”
Umm, sure, so hard all I have to do is talk to my computer. Great!!!
“Gates: You can go through and look at who showed any of these things first,”
Please newsweek DO IT in a follow up story.
Please!!
Would love to have seen the interview. And the irony of Bill bringing up Allchin, who probably just bought his Mac for retirement.
Karma may be a bitch, but it’s something that only Mac users appreciate, as our OS truly has Karma.
I once dated a shitzu who had this same inferiority / persecution complex.
Like Gates, that bitch was always taking credit for things she didn’t really do.
Ehhh . . . maybe it was de viruses talking.
When I first read the Bill Gates quotes, my initial response was a desire to debate and debunk his statements. But as I read further I gained a new perspective. I’ll admit that I’m not objective because I am an Apple fan. But tell me, doesn’t Gates sound openly bitter? He’s supposed to be responding to comments comparing his produt to the Mac, but instead his unreasoning hatred for all things Mac is the message he’s sending.
I’d be interested in the thoughts of those who are not Mac fans (which I’m unlikely to find on this forum): Are Bill Gates comments so openly hostile that he loses all credibility?
This guy hasn’t lost his mind…his responses totally show just how really affected he is by the Mac and Steve Jobs and all the questions regarding Apple. This really bothers him, seeing him ramble on instead of just answer with a professional prepared answer. It used to burn me up seeing M$
ignore the fact that Apple even existed at all, but now it is obvious…and Billy knows the numbers…that Apple is really strong.
“Every single day, they come out with a total exploit, your machine can be taken over totally.”
Wow. Dude is at the breaking point.
They’re coming to take me away, ha ha!
They’re coming to take me away, ho ho!
…you know the rest
Poor old Billy Gates seem to suffering from old age and severe memory loss – poor boy…
Maybe he should go back to his padded cell and start counting all his billions again, just to make him feel better again.
Boy – is he seriously screwed. Just goes to show, all the money in the world and he still cant afford a decent shrink!
>bizarro balmer wrote: If you have a Dell or HP computer, you have NO choice but to get it with Windows.
Uhhh… if you buy a Mac you have NO choice but to get OSX.
So…. what’s your point?
The point is there are 10 companies selling computer with an OS that they didn’t create, and they are not offering any choices like Ubuntu, Mint, or Redhat (even though they’re free). Microsoft locked them out of offering anything else. Apple sells computers with an Operating system they made, and they openly say that you can run windows or any other OS on it at any time if need be. Apple clearly has no trouble letting their computers be used for other operating systems, but Microsoft has a problem with anybody using anything other than microsoft’s software. It’s completely immoral what Microsoft does to lock customers into Windows, and it all started with Bill’s aristocratic mommy paying for his company to be founded and then connecting it to IBM. Meanwhile, Apple started in their garage lead by a man who’s parents struggled to get him through school.
Bill, if he was a real pro, could have sold lots of copies of Vista and increased his sheep loyalty by simple saying…”Apple? Yeah, those guys occasionally come up with some good stuff…we like those guys”, but at the same time refer to them as if they are small potatoes. That would be smart. Instead, he let his bitter passion out of the bag…big mistake…pooping doesn’t sell more copies, it steps on people’s pride, comfort zone, and investment.
Quite funny to watch him squirm while being pressed about AAPL.
Bill, the game is up. You’re just a nerd who got lucky, and your luck is about to run out.
R.I.P. Bill Gates.
MPC Guy: Neither statement is true.
If you buy a Mac you can install Linux, Windows or Mac OS X on it (plus others). With PCs you can’t install OS X, so you have less choice.
Bill Gates has been in a state of denial since 1984.
Talk about superiority of the Vista is confirmed by the cartoon in the Ottawa Citizen dated February 2, 2007. ottawacitizen.com (this won’t bring up the cartoon)
It’s set in the store with a poster on the wall that says Windows Vista Has Arrived! The customer is looking at the iMac in the computers section, and says: Boy, Bill Gates and Microsoft are so innovative! That new Vista Interface on that Computer is Georgeous.
Salesman: Um, That’s a Macintosh Running OS X.
So: if even the Citizen is running cartoons like this, right after Vista has hit the shelves, even the masses are going to get the message that maybe they should a would a could a bought one of them there Apple thingmes, eh?
P.S. Ottawa is the Capital of Canada. That’s near the Nation of Quebec.
P.P.S. Bill Gates, who has never seen the ubiquitous Apple advertising, must be finding them there teevee interviews are becoming tiresome for sure.
Simply pathetic. Microsoft’s usual practice in full light. Is it the state or mind at Redmond nowadays? Vista’s not doing well? Does it hurt Bill? Now imagine what Steve «monkerdance» Ballmer might have to say…
The Howard Hughes reference in the MDN take was hilarious.
MDN has lost its mind
How does he (MDN) knows that Gates has seen the commercial, Billionaires have people to wipe their ass for them, Gates would not dignigy Apple by wasting his precious time watching derogatory ads.
I’m a Mac user since 84 and would love to see the demise of MS but MDN has lost its mind in their pursuit of gossip
zerO,
Is that your IQ?
Don’t forget to contact MDN for your engraved bridge in Brooklyn.
Give Gates and rilfe and a bell tower and watch out.
He is totally totally out of mind.
People who babble like that are usually put away somewhere.
So Macs are being completely taken over every single day are they? I’ll give the benefit of the doubt and not call him a liar, I’ll assume it’s true. Why has this not been in the news at all? Why are people not yelling it from the rooftops that Macs are in no way secure, that if you want security to use a windows machine? It’s just crap. We all expect people to talk up their own products, to talk down about the opposition, but that’s just absolute crap.
If that was happening why would the month of apple bugs have to report such, lets face it, minor problems?
@zer0, get real. Any CEO, COO, CFO, or the like that does NOT stay informed about what the competition is saying/doing re: his product is NEGLIGENT in his duties and should (must?) be removed from said position immediately!
GOT IT?
Or are you saying that BillyBoy G is just that: NOT IN CONTROL OF HIS OWN SHIP!? Keep in mind, oh ill-informed one, that the Swinging Gates does (do?) not relinquish control of his vast empire until this summer. Ipso facto, HE’S STILL IN A POSITION OF AUTHORITY, and being (supposedly) ignorant of ANY affront to his business’s reputation or product quality is DERELICTION OF DUTY! Got it?
Consider yourself educated.
Bill “…Nowadays, security guys break the Mac every single day. Every single day, they come out with a total exploit, your machine can be taken over totally. I dare anybody to do that once a month on the Windows machine”
Is it me or is Bill the Dill living in an alternate time-space-continuum, dimension, world, universe thingy-ma-bob?
——
Men in white coats please report to Redmond.
That guy is a turd-munching, snake-licking, ball-sucking, ass-clown.
‘Nuff said.
Wouldn’t you just love to see a debate between Steve and Bill. On the one side is Steve, calm, cool and collected, and on the other is Bill, squirming in his seat, flailing his hands about, trying desperately to convince you that a single word he is saying is true?
someone dared, mr gates. if you make your computer talk to itself in a nasty way, it’ll delete files off your hard drive.
and i love the way he used the january month of apple bugs to demonstrate his non-point. of course os x has flaws. have they been exploited in such a fashion that MY computer is at risk? NO. and the same goes for everyone who uses a mac that has even the SLIGHTEST bit of common sense. “oh look! leopard screenshots obtained from a completely unknown source! wait, it’s an executable file? hmm, maybe it’s a self-extracting zip or rar. oh wait, now it’s asking for my password? RED FLAG!”
vista MAY have stepped up security (time will tell) but it did so at a great cost in usability. just ask anyone who’s had those dialog boxes pop up several times just to move files from one place to another.
i’m not an apologist for either camp. i really wanted vista to kick ass so i could use my high-performance PC for gaming, without all the headaches that XP brought with it. i was honestly looking forward to vista. their might be hope yet, but i’m not holding my breath.
gates is pissed, and it’s because he sees that people are finally starting to realize something. it was illustrated pretty good in pirates of silicon valley, when jobs told gates that apple’s stuff was better, and gates said it didn’t matter.
IT DOES NOW, WANKER. people are starting to finally realize what shit they’ve been putting up with, and lots of people are switching. just yesterday i convinced a friend of mine who had been holding off from trying macs because he didn’t think he’d be able to do everything he can on a windows pc. i showed him that yeah, you can, and often times it’s less frustrating and confusing.
and an aside: if it’s any testament to apple’s style and long-lasting appeal, both my friend and others have wowed at how attractive my laptop is, and thought it was a new laptop. it’s an 867mhz tibook.
mw: normal. gates ain’t normal in the head if he believes even one word of the tripe he said in that interview.
>pog wrote: If you buy a Mac you can install Linux, Windows or Mac OS X on it (plus others). With PCs you can’t install OS X, so you have less choice.
So it’s Apple’s fault for limiting choice then? They’ve made it illegal to install OSX on non-Apple hardware, even though the ability to do so is there.
Thanks for the clarification.
” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”grin” style=”border:0;” />
Windows tries to tell you not to install anything but windows. But I don’t see you trying to call that immoral. With this new secureboot in windows 8, Microsoft is trying desperately to lock customers out of any choice but windows altogether. Apple doesn’t want their software on non-apple hardware because it doesn’t work as well. But M$ just wants to lock you in completely. Apple makes money off of hardware, not so much software. So if they’re letting you install osx on other people’s hardware, they’re not making money.
OSX on your non-apple pc is not just illegal, it’s finicky. It doesn’t work most of the time. It never performs as well as macintosh on it’s own hardware. And again, apple openly says you can still run windows on their machine. So while windows is trying to lock you in, macintosh is open to you using other OS’s on their machines.
razer – i’d love to see that. i’d PAY to see that. =)
mw future – hopefully we’ll see that sometime in the future!
MDN’s take is extreme and filled with hatred of Gates and the company he created. I agree with every word of it.
MW: late, as in: It’s too late now Billy boy. Apple is wolfing down your lunch.
“Nowadays, security guys break the Mac every single day. Every single day, they come out with a total exploit, your machine can be taken over totally.”
That deserves a wow. It’s not like he can’t afford anti-psychotic medication.
The first war was won by MS. OS War II starts now just in time for Bill to learn shuffleboard.
Who cares what he says, the Windows’ actions speak for themselves. Virus, malware, long startup times because of viruses and malware, 50 dialogue boxes just to set the clock, etc.
I’ve NEVER had my Mac compromised. Gates is delusional.
Strikes me that it is Apple doing Microsoft an enormous favour! Everyone just about knows that OS X is a far superior system. Everyone just about knows that all Microsoft can do is badly copy what OS X did years ago. Microsoft must be eternally grateful that Apple doesn’t enter the real field of combat by refusing to release OS X for use on PC boxes. It’s astonishing that the company who are internationally recognised as the true leaders in ‘quality’ operating systems declines to play ball in the major league – where they’d very likely clean up over night. The argument that PC box design would force OS X down to working at Windows level is an historic one which no longer holds water. Dells boxes may look aesthetically crap, but their guts can’t be so very different from the Macs these days – especially since Apple migrated to Intel chips.
Is Apple the warrior who refuses to fight, preferring to be a big fish in a small pond?… or just waiting for the right moment to strike?
Come on Apple!
Unbelievable…
and the sad fact is, many people that hear it will believe it, not knowing any better.
I’ve got to agree though, he’s really feeling the pressure from Apple to talk the way he’s talking…
Do you feel in 2010-2011 Microsoft will be back with the next big one?
Absolutely. We’ll tell you how Vista just wasn’t good enough, and we’ll know why, too. We need to wait and hear what consumers have to tell us. We don’t know that, otherwise, of course, we would have done it this time.
As Steve Jobs said: You can’t just go out and ask people what they want, by the time you’ve build it, they want something else.
Skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been.
Gates: “We made it way harder for guys to do exploits.”
Yeah, right. Now when you can tell your computer to screw itself it will be harder for all of those non-English speaking hackers to take control over MS OS. Oh, geez, that’s a hurdle.
I bet that you can make Vista use it’s voice synthesiser to say few words and it’s done. That means that you can send an email to Vista to tell Vista to screw Vista. Wow.
“Nowadays, security guys break the Mac every single day. Every single day, they come out with a total exploit, your machine can be taken over totally.”
“Do you want to go back to the original Mac and think about where those interface concepts came from?”
Perhaps we should all <i>politely<i> email Steven Levy steven.levy@newsweek.com and ask him to do a follow up article that fully explores these points.
Gates has obvously been pushed over the brink, but in all fairness with respect to his Apple advertising comment, he was asked if he had seen the Mac ad about installing Vista. To this he replied that he not seen IT. He never stated that he’d not seen ANY of the Get A Mac ads. I don’t think MDN parsed his words accurately and their take is off base. No need to reach so far for reasons to criticize Gates interview. You could write a book analyzing the psychosis exhibited in Gate’s replies.
“Bill Gates is a liar currently trying to buy his way into heaven with ill-gotten gains. He’s also a vile, weasely dweeb with a massive, yet never-so-richly-deserved, inferiority complex. Steve Jobs has masterfully pushed Gates’ every button and set the stage for interviewers to do the same which has obviously driven the nasty little bastard completely, utterly, and totally out of his mind.”
Whew, you need to seriously get a life, and some major therapy, as soon as you extract your head from Steve Job’s intestines.
dude wasn’t kidding when he said the Wow Starts Now.
Wow …
MPC Guy, you are wrong! You can run Linux, Windows, and/or OS X on a Mac. Just because an OS is pre-installed does not necessarily mean that it is the OS one must use. All that needs to be done is add your OS of choice to the Mac and delete the other if you want a mono-OS Mac. With a PC you have a choice of two OSs, Windows and/or Linux. It is obvious that a Mac provides uers greater flexibility.
This guy has mastered revisionist history. In what universe did MS innovate anything? The interface, the search, the 3d flip thingie. The upside down and backwards interface, the transparency and drop shadows. Widgets.
They are too busy copying to do anything original. Too bad the majority of people will not know that these technologies have been around for years with a better execution.
Apple: visionary
MS: groping in the dark
I don’t normally get angry about this kind of thing…but Gates has gone over the line here. I heard him lie on the Today show and again on the Daily Show and it’s got to stop.
I think an ad, citing sources, needs to be created that will let the public know who’s lying and who is telling the truth. Until then we can all expect a barrage of lies from Microsoft.
If you tell a lie often enough, people will start to believe it. The danger is that if you tell a lie often enough, you will start to believe it.
Security guys break the Mac every single day? Maybe Bill thinks that people aren’t smart enough to know the difference between a proof of concept exploit and malware that’s released into the wild. Sadly enough, he’s probably right.
He’s made a shit-ton of money being a ruthless, lying, deceptive, manipulative weasel.
He can say whatever he wants, Vista is still going to suck tomorrow.
To Matt,
“gates is pissed, and it’s because he sees that people are finally starting to realize something. it was illustrated pretty good in pirates of silicon valley, when jobs told gates that apple’s stuff was better, and gates said it didn’t matter.”
Bingo, right on. Gates just cannot handle it that the FUD he speaks is not being accepted anymore. If you go to MS lover sites and you get Mac people replying how well the Macs work, you get this cookie cutter MS FUD that is so obviously just BS.
” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”grin” style=”border:0;” /> ), the Zune Phone vaporware, — just everything MS.
Just look at people like MPC Guy above. “Apple is bad”, “Apple is propriatiy”, “Apple is stealing MS vaporware – er – stuff”, “Microsoft works well with its partners and Apple does not know how to”. Just more and more “Say it backwards and say it often and it become true” FUD. Sorry guys, there is a new Sheriff in town and he is not one to be fooled with.
I do not think Microsoft (and thereby Gates) has ever had this much negative publicity. And they just do not seem able to handle it. Even Ballmer is getting goofie and doing outright lies.
To Bill and Steve at MS. As Scotty says, “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.”
The vultures are beginning to circle overhead. LOL
N.
Just as a publicity stunt, we should chip in and buy Allchin an Mac for his retirment.
Bill “…Nowadays, security guys break the Mac every single day. Every single day, they come out with a total exploit, your machine can be taken over totally. I dare anybody to do that once a month on the Windows machine”
—-
Funny that – ever since I OS X came out I have never had any security issues, malware (apart from M$ Orifice ofc), viri or anything else bad.
wierd – maybe im in a coma or something and its not real…
Billy boy is just a jealous asshole.
TOO BAD BILL – APPLE RELEASED VISTA 6 YEARS AGO!
Wow, Bill knew about the MoAB thing.
Also, I never thought Apple would be riding high while Dell, MS, and Intel would be struggling to turn around the ship. Amazing turn of events the last couple years.
Gates: “You can choose to buy a new machine, or you can choose to do an upgrade.”
I have a Dell, and I can’t upgrade to Vista. I’d need to buy a whole new system or, yes, do major surgery on my system just as the Mac ad claims.
On the other hand, MacDaily’s rant, rudeness and psychobabble Mac Cult commentary still shows us that Apple may be changing but they’re community isn’t. Babble should have been replaced by proper quotes and proof of Gates dulusionment.
Apple is emerging as the only true visionary in the industry for the next leg of this digital revolution and it’s time for the Mac community to pull up its socks and grow up!
Almost feel sorry for him. Weird.
Gates clearly has lost his cool and is obviously ticked off by the gains the Mac has been making– and how much cooler Jobs and Apple are. Still, if you’re going to take him to take, understatement can make your points better! Repeatedly calling him a liar makes your own assessment petty.
Note also that you mis-represented what Gates said… he didn’t say that he hadn’t seen any of the ads… just that latest one.
“Levy: Are you bugged by the Apple commercial where John Hodgman is the PC, and he has to undergo surgery to get Vista?
Gates: I’ve never seen it.”
So, you undercut your own case by distorting what he said!
>maczealot wrote: MPC Guy, you are wrong!
Actually, I never made any statement about what OS ran on what. I was replying to a poster who said you can only get a Dell with Windows.
So that poster is wrong.
—
With a PC, you also have a choice of OSX.
” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”grin” style=”border:0;” /> In Apple fashion, it’s not “legal” because they part of the EULA is that you agree to run it only on Apple hardware.
The decision to limit consumer choice is…. surprise, surprise…. Apple’s.
Again, you’re wrong. Apple is saying their OS may only run on their hardware. So you should buy a Mac to get mac. It doesn’t run well on other systems, and it requires hacks to run on other systems.
Meanwhile, with Secureboot on Windows 8 (which I have gone over before), Microsoft is trying to limit ALL hardware to just Windows 8 by locking you into windows and out of the BIOS settings. And Apple is still openly saying you can run other OS’s on their hardware.
So while apple is limiting what runs their software, Microsoft wants to limit what your hardware runs which is much worse. Microsoft doesn’t want you to have a choice. But Apple wants to make money on hardware, and maybe you’ll decide to keep their OS since it IS secure, powerful, and easy. So the limiter is yourself. Do you buy an apple machine and get something that runs everything? Or do you buy something else and hand over all your digital rights to microsoft?
So what was the result of the bug a day, contest? How bad were the exploits into a Mac? Totally take over my mac? That’s hard to believe.
I know, MDN knows all about it but they aren’t reporting it just like the media isn’t reporting all that good news from Iraq.
And Bill’s statement about how hackers would be hardpressed to find an exploit a month sounds like a challenge to me!
Hackers, start your engines!
Wow. The constant comparing of Vista to OS X (for obvious reasons) is really getting under Gates’ skin. This time he blew his top. I bet we’re going to see lots more of this while Gates is promoting Vista.
maybe we shouldn’t have showed so publicly the stuff we were doing
—
The Expose rip-off shouldn’t have been shown off.
This is amazing. He’s snapping, the interviewer’s questions are pissing him off and he flies off the handle.
Mac exploits every month? Wow. Wow.
This interview is amazing.
Bill Gates is REALLY worried *buy* Apple for him to show this level of outright lies.
I love the part when is says Vista is more secure than a Mac. Riggghhhttt. Never mind the man behind the curtain, huh Bill?
Peace.
I must say, I can’t remember the last time I read such utter rubbish.
Delusional? Alzheimers, most likely!
Embittered…yes, he can’t even control his emotions any more.
Rattled? More like a train wreck.
“Lying bastard?” I don’t think he deliberately intended to lie; it’s more like he has lost the ability to discriminate between the truth, wishful thinking and all the FUD he’s spewed.
He’s going to end up in a padded room some day, muttering, “Innovation…innovation…viruses everywhere…trojans…. NURSE !!!”
What a feast. Problem is, some single digit percentage of the world is on the same page with MDN and the rest of you guys, the remaining 90% plus are fully in tune with the hated Bill Gates. I applaud his dissing of Lord Jobs – raising him to the status of diety, as is MDN and its lemmings on this site, is profoundly stupid. Steve Jobs is a master huckster – that’s it, that’s all there is to him.
@MPC,
Why do you call yourself Mac & PC Guy? You are so obviously a Windows troll that the pretense of being a Mac user is farcical.
You were called out on this about 2 years ago, nothing’s changed, except that it is a bit more obvious that you’re fighting a losing battle!
I am so done with Microsoft. For years I was a mindless undead Microsoft devotee; I followed them with drool and foam in my mouth. All the while, I believed the lies put out there by Microsoft and other Windows devotees regarding Apple and Mac computers. Then one day I got an iPod and my mind was cracked open. Then after I was exposed to OS X, I was a total convert.
I’m sick of Bill Gates’ and Microsot’s deception tactics. They only feel threatened by Apple and consequently spreading lies and FUD to promote their own product.
May the best company (Apple) win. I really hope Jobs can keep bringing it and Microsoft and keep failing. It is my sincere hope that Microsoft fizzles out and that Apple gains in popularity and the recent trends continue.
I’m so sick of Microsoft.
Did you all see Gates on the Daily Show? It was sad. He was even trying to be funny, and it just made me ache with embarrassment that I even live in the same state as the guy. He hold his hands up to pantomime a keyboard at one point and he seriously looks like he’s 8 years old. My god, this is The Guy who runs the computer industry? What a twonk. This guy has ‘vision’? Nah, don’t think so. Bill does not know what I want my computer to do. This guy is not a leader. He’s not a creator. He’s a script kiddie who got lucky. Very lucky. But his luck is running out. The dark ages (read ‘dork’ ages) are coming to an end.
-c
MW: ‘land’ (of bilk and money)
You have no idea how many people are being impacted by these reports.
Their next computer will be a Mac. And as you know, once they switch they don’t go back. What they do do is convince others to switch too.
Apple “copied” the Widget from Konfabulator so Bill is sort of right, but Widgets were not first developed by Microsoft. Anyhow, Apple has made significant improvements in Widgets. As history shows, when Microsoft copies Apple, the result is typically unimpressive.
Equating one month of bug reporting to the overwhelming number of security problems that infest windows is just plain insane. How can he look himself in the mirror after such an unbelievable statement?
All the billions in the world can not by true innovation, taste, vision and charisma and that is just sad! Worse of all, forever ever, he can’t shake that comparison to his Steveness and I think that is what bugs Bill the most. Pathetic. Ironically, if he would just stop claiming “innovation” time after time and admit all MS products are just regular merchandise, may be people will stop comparing. Bill just keeps asking for the humiliation so I don’t feel sorry for him.
“We made it way harder for guys to do exploits. The number [of violations] will be way less because we’ve done some dramatic things [to improve security] in the code base. Apple hasn’t done any of those things”.
No Apple based there entire operating system on security Mr. Bill! Ignorant Idiot!! Does he really think for one second that anyone will believe that line. OSX has been out for 6 plus years and no viruses (proven in the wild),no spyware, and no major hacked systems anywhere.
For the record XP has been trounced so many times it’s unreal! Vista will end up the same way because they really didn’t change the core of the operating system like they said they would. Another false promise on Microsofts part.
Twenty Benson…
While current Macs may have similar guts to a DellBox™, the reason why Macs are Macs and that they work smoothly and seamlessly, is that Apple controls everything in them from mother board design to OS X.
If Apple made OS X available to the Pee Sea swamp, the Mac experience on generic PC hardware would simply NOT be the same. Apple has 5 basic models with only minor hardware variations within each, so it’s easier to write and optimize the OS for specific Mac hardware configurations. Try that with the millions of possible hardware variations out there in generic DOSBox land. I won’t even mention the nightmare that tech support would undoubtedly be in that scenario.
Apple has historically and aggressively abandoned obsolete technologies in favor of newer, simpler, faster and better solutions… ADB, Serial Ports, SCSI, floppies… to name a few. Windows still supports separate mouse and keyboard ports and parallel ports! Not to mention old software. This is one reason why Vista rots because it’s stuck trying to support all these ancient “standards”. Vista still has the Registry (if that’s what it’s called)!Backward compatibility is fine in order to have a relatively painless transition to newer technologies, like 32-bit mode or Classic or Rosetta in Mac OS X, but when it hobbles development and detracts from the final product, it’s a huge problem.
Revisionist history? Au contraire my Apple lemming friends. The “Wow” certainly is now, and Apple has been set back years, if not decades with Redmond’s latest masterpiece. I don’t know why Apple even tries anymore.
Once and for all lets get this upgrade thing straightened out. I’m running Vista on a Compaq LTE 286 with 640 kb RAM, 40 Mb hard disk & 1.44 Mb floppy drive. Works great, thank you—I had a wicked World of Warcraft session on it last night. Awesome!
Apple’s advertising is pure lies, fabrications & falsehoods. Hey Apple, why don’t you worry about yourselves instead of picking on Microsoft. Last I checked envy was one of the seven deadly sins.
Thank you, Mr. Gates for having the courage to tell it like it is. Who the hell does this Steven Levy character think he is questioning one of our time’s great technology visionaries? How does Levy live with himself throwing Mac OS X in Bill Gates’ face like that? It’s like comparing a bicycle to a car. Ridiculous. Upward and onward, Bill. Thank you again for your bravery in the face of these attacks, and thank you for staying above the lies.
Your potential. Our passion.
Wow. You honestly expect us to believe your running vista on that piece of crap? It doesn’t even have a megabyte of memory, and at any given time, Vista OS alone takes 200mb to keep itself running. It requires at least 1GB to run, 2GB if you want it to run smoothly, and 4 gigabytes if you want to run any programs on it. 40MB hard disk? Vista takes 15 gigabytes to install it’s 32-bit version. It’s 16 gigabyte version takes even more. And the floppy drive doesn’t even matter.
Good luck making it in the world when you’re fending for Microsoft the same way they fend for themselves: with lies. How can you run your vista with that low os specs while people with 4GB of RAM, 500GB of HDD space, 2.2Ghz processors, and highend graphic chipsets are still having trouble with it? The obvious truth is that what you told is lies.
Unless you’re running it from an external hard disk drive using the ready boost to give it more ram, then you could run it, but in turn, you’d still be lying, since you implied your running it on the specs you mentioned while in the mean time it’s running off of different hardware.
It makes me sick how people like you can try to advocate what doesn’t work with lies so outrageous. You deserve to use Vista. You deserve to use bad software.
Be honest, the only thing that will run on that dinosaur is an ancient version of a super light linux distro. Even then it might not run that well.
“Apple “copied” the Widget from Konfabulator so Bill is sort of right, but Widgets were not first developed by Microsoft. Anyhow, Apple has made significant improvements in Widgets. As history shows, when Microsoft copies Apple, the result is typically unimpressive.”
I liked Konfabulator widget better. I liked how they stayed on the desktop instead of Exposé-ing out. But in any case, yes, MS came 3rd on this one, not even second.
Wow is right. I don’t think I’ve ever heard such a line of delusional bullsh*t in my life. I don’t even know where to start. Bill seriously needs to go to a doctor and get some medication.
Wow, he’s really defensive. Hit a nerve much? He hasn’t had Apple thrown in his face very much for the past decade, now he can’t avoid it.
Innovation to him means his programmers wrote their own code. But like with pdf and Adobe, that’s even in question.
Sorry, Bill– there’s more to it than just saying you’re great. You have to show it.
Repeat after me.
Eric Willard is moron.
Bill Gates is a liar (and a moron).
Sorry, Windows World. The Termina Moon is crashing down before you know it.
And there isn’t a sole out here that would buy them either.
What a rant of lie’s!!
great comment:
“Gates is in rare form. Lying through his teeth while calling everyone else a liar. This guy’s gonna die in a hotel room in Vegas with 36-inch long fingernails if he keeps up with this level of delusion.”
made my friday.
Wow! Just wow! I’m completely speechless…
This sounds like cornered, on the attack Bill Gates. Wow, I didn’t expect this from him this early.
I suppose this is one of those smug Mac fanboi things, but I can’t help it…
I just love how obsessed this little dweeb is with the 5% market share company down the coast! The gnat on the elephant’s ass is just too much for this pachyderm.
I remember when Windows 95 came out and us Mac users knew the Mac was still superior, but Microsoft’s momentum was unstoppable. It was somewhat depressing. This time with Vista, that ain’t the case. Even in the areas where Microsoft can control the message like these interviews they’re getting killed. The media was smitten with Windows 95, but this time, not so much.
End users! end users! end users! end users!…
Bill is obviously sweating bullets, it’s down right ugly, yet humorous. The future is web based apps anyway, both Apple and MS are gonna be competing with Google and perhaps someone who doesn’t exist yet. Luckily Google and Apple are teaming up now. I’d love to see Apple take some of Bill’s sound bites (lies) and tear them to shreds with truth. When Leopard is released, along with new breathtaking hardware, Apple must drive home three main points… 1.) Price differences are negligible. 2.) Security is light years ahead on a Mac. 3.) The learning curve is much easier using OSX versus Vista.
John Gruber has something to say about Widgets being “ripped off” of Konfabulator, here: http://daringfireball.net/2004/06/dashboard_vs_konfabulator
Love the MDN ‘take-downs’, so infotaining and true.
mw:trying, BG is trying too hard, however desperation is always ugly.
Bill Gates loses his mind, and so MDN in turn loses its mind and starts hurling ad hominem attacks back. The fanboys commenting on this site just echo that stupid behavior.
MDN, correct and dispute Bill Gates all you want. But personal invective and moronic arguments are childish behavior, and are uncalled for.
There is plenty of room to disagree forcefully with someone’s position, without attacking them in a childish way.
And no, two wrongs don’t make a right. If Gates was wrong, don’t YOU be wrong too.
Show some class, and retain your dignity.
I’ve seen several interviews with Gates lately. They all get on his case, i think he’s getting a bit defensive. I wonder how long it’ll take before he cracks completely!
>Macaday wrote: You are so obviously a Windows troll that the pretense of being a Mac user is farcical. You were called out on this about 2 years ago… you’re fighting a losing battle!
Friend… I actually do enjoy using Macs. I think you’d be surprised how much so if you knew me in the real world as opposed to judging me by a few lines on the Internet.
If we go by Macs owned, the current count is 4 – ranging from a G5 iMac to a 17″ C2 Duo MBP. My ownership of Apple gear dates back to the days of the Apple IIGS… although my computing experience started with the ][e. At work, I managed a host of Macs – G4s, G5s, iMacs, PowerMacs, etc…
As for fighting this losing battle, you’re probably right. But, then again, I’m not fighting any particular battles. On this board, I’ll sometimes present alternate views or perhaps interpret things atypically to that of the general MDN’er.
But in the end you’re right… If a MDN’er cannot engage in another with reason the next step is to name-call. Some even skip the reason part and get to the part their good at – name-calling.
I guess you probably did the name-cal… ahrm… calling me out as a troll 2 years ago.
Anyway… lighten up friend. If everyone bashed MS and adored Apple unconditionally, this board would be boring and dull. As it is, we have all sorts of commentary – some of which is actually fun, ‘cept for the constant name-calling.
No hard feelings though… and g’day to you. Happy Friday!
@ Uncalled for…
NUH UH!!!
This is all out war… diginity… flignity, who needs it? When you’ve been the underdog for so long, it’s hard not to get worked up over the dominant player’s nasty lies. This site is for the Mac Faithful, not fence sitters. MDN, keep doing what your doing, and when Mac gains its deserved respect again, perhaps you can tone it down a bit, but not a day before.
“Nowadays, security guys break the Mac every single day. Every single day, they come out with a total exploit, your machine can be taken over totally. I dare anybody to do that once a month on the Windows machine.”
WTF is he talking about?!? Macs are exploited daily to the point of being taken over totally?? When the f*ck has that EVER happened, much less daily?!? My God, Gates has totally gone off the deep end…
Bill Gates has obviously been smoking bad crack.
MDN, if you’re going to comment on the interview, at least stick to using facts.
“We call bullshit on that one: Gates has seen the Apple ads.”
– Reread what Gates said. He never said he hadn’t seen the Apple ads, just not the one that was particularly mentioned.
“By the way, Bill Atkinson came up with “the file, edit, view, help menu bar” on the Mac. More about the history of where and how the Mac’s user interface originated, from the actual people who did the work, here.”
– The link doesn’t mention at all that “Bill Atkinson came up with “the file, edit, view, help menu bar” on the Mac.” So either use a different link or exclude that point altogether.
I hate, hate, HATE to say it but there’s truth in his words. My PowerBook gets exploited every single day and is made to do work, update our website, edit movies and browse the ‘net efficiently and intuitively. I have no idea how those hacking bastards do it, but damn it every SINGLE day I have a stable platform and an enjoyable computing experience.
” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”smile” style=”border:0;” />
I’ve seen several interviews with Gates lately. They all get on his case, i think he’s getting a bit defensive. I wonder how long it’ll take before he cracks completely!
–
And they always tease him about OS X… what’s the Mac mindshare these days.. wow
>ibookfast wrote: diginity… flignity, who needs it?
If you have to ask…
>ibookfast wrote: and when Mac gains its deserved respect again
The Mac is a machine. It neither needs nor asks for respect.
I can totally take over a Mac the same way I’ve totally taken over this Windozer. It’s easy. All I do is log in, and I can do pretty much anything I want. So I don’t know why anybody is so upset about what Bill Gates said. He was completely accurate, millions (!) of people totally take over their Macs every day.
My ass is the Window® of my mind.
MPC Guy, lighten up man.
Mac is a machine built by a company of people, and those people deserve respect, and that regained respect is turning into more sales than ever, sweet.
Unless Apple screws up badly, or is sabotaged.. they have nowhere to go but up.
MDN, you let him off the hook for this gem:
“Nowadays, security guys break the Mac every single day. Every single day, they come out with a total exploit, your machine can be taken over totally.”
This is such garbage I don’t even know where to begin.
ibookfast wrote: MPC Guy, lighten up man.
I’m as light as a feather.
” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”grin” style=”border:0;” />
What you said was pretty ridiculous just the same.
” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”grin” style=”border:0;” />
Billy Boy should’ve watched what he said a little more carefully. Steve-O is just sitting back and waiting…probably when he announces Leopard’s availability and then he will cook Gates and company to no end. I’m sure he will be replaying a lot of those interviews we’ve all seen with a little bit of commentary for each one. The press will get a rude awakening along with the rest of the world.
Billy Boy is not wanting to be the face of MicroShaft right now…. the delay in Vista has probably been his apprehension in being in the spotlight. You know he is not comfortable with it – but he is M$!
it seems that every time bill has done an interview or publicity push over the past 2 weeks he gets asked about apple. whether it’s about the similar features which have already been done, or the mac vs. pc commercials (no one has ever brought up a windows commercial to my knowledge), or vista security vs. osx security, or just the fact that they really don’t have anything new under the hood. he has got to be seriously pissed off at the fact that no is really paying attention to the product itself. then again, his answers to even somewhat intelligent questions are no more than 1 foot deep (“we’ve got dvd burning & parental controls…”). he is turning into what his product is being reviewed as: mostly fluff on the outside (which not even everyone can appreciate or use due to high requirement specs) with “not-too-different-than-before” in the middle. some people really appreciate the changes they’ve made and yes, it’s probably the best windows system yet. but to outright lie about your competition while lying about your own product at the same time is a new low. did he think he wouldn’t called on it by the mac fervor?? i’d like for him to show me someone who has had their mac taken over from outside exploits.
i wish apple would do a straight forward, no sarcastic bullshit ad explaining exactly why osx is better than vista to bring the knockout punch that they so richly deserve.
The sad thing is, I tlaked to several friends who are not fanatical PC fanboys, just the average Joe… and they actually believe Bill Gates and all the other FUD out there. They still think Macs are toys, and that to do serious work you need Windows.
So Bill Gates of course sounds like he’s lost it to us Mac users, but to the average Joe out there, he makes perfect sense. Hitler used this tactic before to fool his countrymen. Say something forceful enough, often enough, no matter how untrue… becomes accepted as true.
So Bill Gates knows what he’s doing here, he’s playing to the 90% (okay, maybe 89%) ot there. Steve Jobs and Apple are great innovators, but Bill’s the great deceiver…. and he darn sure knows what he’s doing.
‘Doze-cult worshippers love to point out, as they do in the Newsweek/M$NBC link, that Apple “stole” the mouse from Xerox.
But in the 1980s, mice had been around for nearly 80 years at least.
I have an astronomy book published in 1906 (yes, 1906 — no typo) that describes a telescope’s mouse — and it is called a mouse — that fits in the palm of an astromomer’s hand, and with switches controls the direction in which a huge telescope points.
Xerox did not invent the mouse nor the term, any more than Henry Ford invented the automobile and the term.
Unbelievable. But the question is: How does Bill Gates get to lie through his teeth on national tv
without the slightest concern that he might be called on it? Where’s the rebuttal on national
television? Most of the people who watch these so-called “news” shows don’t read MDN or any
other less-biased source.
John Titor (time traveler) said in the future Microsoft would not exist. (He was supposed to be from 2036 and traveled back in time to get an IBM computer from 1975). Maybe time travel is possible:)
Realist:
“The Macintosh User Interface wasn’t designed all at once; it was actually the result of almost five years of experimentation and development at Apple, starting with graphics routines that Bill Atkinson began writing for Lisa in late 1978.”
First paragraph.
do you wanna retract your comment now?
Asshole
“who came up with [the] file, edit, view, help [menu bar]?”
> On the morning of the launch of the Vista operating system earlier this week…
> “If you’re interested, [Vista development chief] Jim Allchin will be glad to educate you…”
That’s craziness. Didn’t Gates know that Allchin quit on that same day? Maybe he didn’t. Perhaps Gates is the dictator hiding in his cozy bunker, while his lieutenants feed him the “good news” and leave out the bad news for fear of being “shot.”
ibookfast: You think we’re in an all-out war? Over computing software?
I have news for you: This is not all-out war. Apple and Microsoft are in a commercial competition. And you are a customer, not a soldier. That’s all. Nothing more.
You want a real war? Tune your television set to the news or go to bbc.com/news – there’s plenty of real people suffering real bodily injuries and dying, in Iraq and elsewhere in this world.
It’s amazing how easily you get worked up into a lather.
“This site is for the Mac Faithful, not fence sitters.”
I thought this site was for grownups who cared about Macs.
So if you are an adult, then start acting like one:
– Start making your points forcefully but respectfully.
– Criticize weak arguments with solid facts and compelling reasoning.
– Argue for your point of view. Don’t just blast the other guy’s position.
– Never make ad hominem attacks or argue by analogy. Both are signs that you’ve lost your mind or lost the argument.
Etc.
If you don’t, then think of the image you’re projecting to people who don’t know or care about Macs: crazed, foaming at the mouth, ready to lash out at any and all who cross your way.
I think Bill has seen the Vista Update Mac Ad. It’s just when he remembers it in his minds eye, he thinks he is looking in the mirror.
Anyone else wonder if Ballmer is back stage at these interviews “squirting” talking points to Bill’s Zune? I didn’t think so.
I actually believe that Gates hasn’t seen the commercials, because he seems to think that they portray PC *users* as dullards. But of course the guy doesn’t say “Hi, I’m a PC user”. He says “I’m a PC”. The commercial is about the “personalities” of the respective platforms. It says nothing at all, really, about users.
I suppose using the concept of the war is not very pc, considering people are actually dying from them, point well taken. Violent war sucks, and I don’t support them, as 99% of them are about money, including the current ones. I’ll qualify my statement and say that this is a commercial one, and it’s not like I made up the phrase “OS wars”. I think it’s time to people to lighten up… I’m just having fun watching this ‘competition’ unfold, especially as ‘my team’ is beginning to come back from behind. Don’t you appreciate a good come back from behind victory? I liked my previous post so much, I thought I’d share again in case you missed it, as well as answer your charge of my unadultlike behavior.
Bill is obviously sweating bullets, it’s down right ugly, yet humorous. The future is web based apps anyway, both Apple and MS are gonna be competing with Google and perhaps a company that (edited for clarity) doesn’t exist yet. Luckily Google and Apple are teaming up now. I’d love to see Apple take some of Bill’s sound bites (lies) and tear them to shreds with truth. When Leopard is released, along with new breathtaking hardware, Apple must drive home three main points… 1.) Price differences are negligible. 2.) Security is light years ahead on a Mac. 3.) The learning curve is much easier using OSX versus Vista.
John Gruber has something to say about Widgets being “ripped off” of Konfabulator, here: http://daringfireball.net/2004/06/dashboard_vs_konfabulator
Love the MDN ‘take-downs’, so infotaining and true.
mw:trying, BG is trying too hard, however desperation is always ugly.
… none other than MSFT?
Did anybody else get the feeling that while Gates claimed he hadn’t seen the “surgery” commercial, he seemed to intimately focus on the MOAB project?
To put it another way, does the MOAB project have more notoriety than Apple’s PC guy / Mac guy commercials?
#
What do you think about MOAB’s project own attempts to crash your browser on the sly? Someone should look into these matters. A few boys are going to be in some serious trouble pretty soon.
MDN word: top
“coming from the top”
@ Sly:”Maybe time travel is possible”In the future it will be
Bill IS in full spin mode. He’s even trying to piss off Windows users by falsely implying that the Mac ads are poking fun at PC users. They are poking fun at Windows based Personal Computers.
Eaaaannh! Sic those Mac people, guys, get em! They’re making fun of you! eeeeaanh!
One of these days this guy’s gonna peel the masking layer of skin off of his face and we’re gonna see who he really is…
Dang you Ryan! You beat me to it (Like we were both so quick to get in on this thread!)
You know Bill is almost right on the security thing. Apple has done very little to make UNIX more secure, it came that way with FreeBSD.
Steve Jobs’ reality distortion field affects others around him.
Bill Gates’ reality distortion field affects only himself.
How many more interviews until Bill jumps over the table and starts screaming, “We did it first! We did it first!” at the interviewer?
The over/under is 3. I’m taking the under.
This is possibly dangerous…
We can all agree that Bill at least seems upset with was is going on…and that can be very dangerous for us (Mac users)
Why?
Retaliation….we know that MS sometimes doesn’t fight fair…so they could make changes in their stuff to make things more difficult for a Mac like in SMB, Exchange Servers (Samba depends on MS not making much changes), withhold not only Mac office development (not that I care that much) but just making it harder for us to work along the many MS technologies out there…
So these Mac and PC ad, might have just made the wrong guy angry (I used to be concerned about upsetting future customers, not anymore)
…just a scary thought….
“… speaking of peripherals.”
he he
I’d give up my tiny kingdom to be a fly on the wall at a M$ meeting!!
As for Gates blatant lies, these interviewers need to call him on those lies. They need to do background work to have the facts to confront him with the truth and dates and names.
True Apple hasn’t completely invented the basic concept of many products they sell, but this how it goes anyway:
Typical tech scenario:
1. Concept is thought up and poorly produced.
2. Apple picks it up, takes it light years beyond what anyone dreamed it could do in this century.
3. Micro$oft takes Apple’s concept, dumbs it back down again and sells it to the clueless masses.
That’s the story of the iPod and now the phone (which M$ is now “threatening” to make a phone or “Zone” I should call it.
Bill tries to call Apple copycats?!?!
Dude, the new Windows logo on the front of the Vista box is A FRIGGIN’ AQUA BUTTON!!!
Ugh! Talk about lame!
P.S. Actually it’s the story of the operating systems as well. The list can go on and on for sure.
Unpurse your lips, put your pince–nez back on and go back to your knitting.
just for fun I went to dell.com and compared their 1,099.00 model to the iMac @1199.00.
The Dell comes with 70 more gigs of HD space, a screen that’s an inch bigger, and 7.1 audio vs 2.0?? (the iMac had optical audio, in & out, Dell’s specs had no mention of optical), after that all the advantages fell by the way side. The iMac has a superdrive the XPS 210 only has a combo drive. The iMac has a faster processor – 2.0, 4MB L2 Cache vs. 1.86, 2MB L2 Cache, the Dell has no pre-installed software (though in this case that could be a good thing), the iMac has a built-in camera, stereo speakers, mic as well as an IR remote-the Dell has none, iMacs GC=ATI Radeon X1600-Dell’s=ATI Radeon X1300, and the Dell of course has an inferior OS.
I couldn’t even find out if the Dell had a wireless card, I think it does, there was no mention of blue tooth, I don’t think it does. The iMac has both.
The Dell does come with sludge known as Norton’s, bummer for them.
Don’t know enough about monitor tech specs to compare (anyone?), couldn’t find any specs on the one delivered at that price on the Dell website. The iMacs has 17-inch (viewable) widescreen TFT active-matrix LCD, 1440 x 900 pixels, millions of colors, & is 24 bit.
Isn’t true that the higher end you go Macs are even more comparatively less expensive?
It would seem for the extra 100 bucks you get so much more, the sum is greater than the parts, especially considering Apple’s designs.
mw:which… would you choose?
That picture of Ballmer at the top of the page makes him look like he forgot his dentures.
And the goofy grin makes him look like he should be wearing a football helmet for his own personal safety.
sorry, the Dell has 90 gigs more, not 70, my bad.
It seems that Bill Gates can’t do anything else but talk shit. I noticed that he talks a lot of shit when I was 12. Things haven’t changed much in 9 years. It’s just that now other people (masses) see too.
He’s been talking shit for so long that the only thing he can do now is talk more shit. And that’s like see-through clothing; doesn’t take that much imagination to figure out what’s behind it.
One more thing, if you buy a computer via Apple, you get 100.00 towards a printer… why oh why would anyone buy a Dell?
hopefully I’m not annoying… I did a quick ‘chat’ with a Dell rep… I stand corrected.. it does come with sterero speakers, but…. NO wifi, or bluetooth standard! this is what she said about the monitor.. “1280×1024, and the contrast ratio is 700:1” so they win in that catagory as well, I think, I don’t know the contrast ratio on the mac???
Getting info for their products is like pulling teeth, ouch.
Analog resolutions up to 2048 x 1536, found this lovely stat @www.macspeedzone.com, so it looks like the monitor, save size, is better, sweet. I’m done now, promise.
” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”smile” style=”border:0;” />
Bill? Get a decent haircut. You’re giving mothers with bowls a bad name.
The article seems to be getting a bit of mileage over at OS News as well
http://www.osnews.com/comment.php?news_id=17148&offset=15&rows=30&threshold=-1
BG: “if you’re really cool, that means you get to be a lying person whenever you feel like it?”
The WOW does start now.
BG is the coolest ever… he just said so himself!
Apple’s fashion. Our Passion.
Where do you want to go today? Where Apple’s been yesterday.
MS: Bringing you yesterday’s technology tomorrow!
AND if you’ve ever partnered w/ MS you have certainly been PLAYEDforSure!
Have a nice squirt.
“If Gates had never seen a “Get a Mac” ad, he would not be able to state his next sentence about dullards and klutzes”
He never said he saw *any* of the adds he said “I’ve never seen it.” referring to the one commercial in question.
I love you Mac junkies, so blinded by your love of a computer that you launch into a weak tirade, just like the right wing media that we all hate…
Not that I agree with Gates, but lets have some informed ideas presented please.
well said kevin, i read every post no this page to make sure i wasn’t going to double post and here sits your comment comfortably at the bottom, the right information is everything, if u go to a fanboy site to reinforce your world view, you’re going to blindly follow what the outspoken fanboy has to say (unfortunately whether it is true or not).
I heard that Apple stole the Gui of Mac from Xerox in late 80’s.
This article doesn’t even touch on the fact that when ever microsoft tries to sell a product it doesn’t build it’s case around any of the many faults of it’s compeditors. Why not try to sell apple computers based on their own merits and not your compeditors conceved shortfalls?
Funny how apple doesn’t try to attack any alternative x86 OS (linux and etc) that are available for free.
Seriously you apple fan boys need to stop inhailing your own farts like they don’t stink. Realize that when you buy a apple product your paying a permium that other x86 users don’t, just to find out that the software selection is drastically smaller and your hardware upgrade options are even worse.
I agree that there is much more lying coming from the Apple camp these days than from Microsoft.
I have Windows computers here with THOUSANDS of hours of consecutive continuous uptime, no crashing, no rebooting and especially no overheating, all while serving 4 different database applications over the web to thousands of users, making music, burning CDs, browsing the web and whatnot, I know one should not do these things with a web server, but with Windows I CAN.
I know friends who lost EVERYTHING on their Mac, or who have thrown their Mac out after it was repeatedly rendered useless by hackers and virus malware.
All hardware works with the Mac? Well, for HALF of the hardware on my desk there are NO Mac drivers. Say Goodbye to scanning, backups and label printing.
Macs have cameras built-in and PCs don’t? There are more PC laptop models curently available WITH cameras than all the 100 models of Macintoshes in history combined.
The Mac TV ads are all lying, that the only reason why they’re funny. Unless you’d compare an old DOS PC with a Mac, then you may consider some of them true.
i’m a little surprised that he made the statement about security, surely he can be sued for that, it’s just wrong!
Have you looked into Apple Macintosh multitasking? You make it sound like ONLY WINDOWS CAN serve database applications, make music and burn CDs. Are you absolutely sure Windows is the only platform that can fulfill this need? What makes you think only Windows can maintain continous, consistent uptime? I have thousands of hours here too. The only time it is broken is for software updates that require a reboot.
Hackers and virus malware on a Mac? Again, are you absolutely sure your friends were using Macs? There are NO KNOWN VIRUSES OR MALWARE FOR MACS other than proof-of-concept malware. Personally the 2 Macs shared by 3 teenagers in my house for web surfing, e-mailing, instant messaging, file sharing, etc. are fantastic vectors for malware attacks. After 5 years shouldn’t these machines be compromised without malware protection software? So far nothing. You can’t put a price on the peace of mind this gives me.
Tell me about these scanners, backup devices and label printers. Are they any good? I mean, would I want to spend my money on them regardless of cost? Before you answer remember that more ≠ better, and cheaper ≠ better. Better = better.
Tell me about these cameras on Windows PCs. Are they any good? I mean, would I want to spend my money on them regardless of cost? Before you answer remember that more ≠ better, and cheaper ≠ better. Better = better.
From where I sit (18-year Mac user, 14-year PC at work user) those Mac TV ads are SPOT ON.
So if this “interview” gets published in the print version of Newsweek can we demand Newsweek to publish a point by point explanation of how Gates is wrong?
Virtually anyone who’s used a Mac regularly for more than a few years can refute virtually everything he said.
He’s doing business you freaking nut job. To make all these personal attacks detracts from your credibility to the point where you look like the pile of shit instead of your apparent target.
I agree that Apple makes superior product but your level of emo makes me want to go back to a PC just to feel less aligned with people like you.
If anything can derail the current trend to “switch to the mac”, it’s you psychotic fan boys.
Go smoke some weed with a pretty girl or something dude. Seriously.
I mean, obviously Gates is going to say all this stuff. Calling him all these names, though, is kind of lame. The Gates Foundation is helping a lot of people–a lot. http://www.gatesfoundation.com/default.htm
I have been a Mac user since 1985, I dislike Microsoft just as much as you guys, but jeez, give it a rest. Jobs is a visionary, but he is a jerk. You know he is, we all know he is. Sure, Windows sucks, but let’s keep it at that. Gates is doing a lot more to actually help people live than Steve is.
This site, this incredibly biased site, embarrasses Mac users. You guys don’t report news, you are a collection of rabid Mac faboys and you make us all look bad.
Of COURSE Microsoft is ripping off the Mac. We all know this. It’s funny, yes, to see him try to defend it. But I mean, give it a rest, guys. We all know the Mac is better, sure, but to be so rabid…just chill out for a bit.
…i wish apple would do a straight forward, no sarcastic bullshit ad explaining exactly why osx is better than vista to bring the knockout punch that they so richly deserve… [james bond] <— Right infront of ya –> http://www.apple.com/getamac/ I’d say that puppy is totally trained in that website – better than any short ad could deliver.
Avoiding sarcasm, though, is probably impossible when talking about Windows.
I am wondering if Steve Jobs has done to Bill Gates what Gates did to Steve back when he ripped off the Mac to introduce Windows?
People keep forgetting that Patent Cross License agreement that was sealed in 1997.
It is ALWAYS assumed that the patent cross license ONLY benefited Microsoft.
WHAT IF Apple benefited from Microsoft?
I know I didn’t know this, and I am only putting it out as an idea/possibility, but what if in that period (1997-2001) Apple used patented ideas from Microsoft that were shared with them?
Of course Apple has done nothing wrong, they are giving Bill Gates a taste of his own medicine (only legally), and although if you believe Bill Gates, Apple just didn’t “read their contracts with Microsoft properly” that is why he was able to lift Mac GUI elements for Windows.
WHAT IF Microsoft did patent “parental controls” and “system wide searching” etc BEFORE Apple, but under the patent sharing agreement, Apple got a look at it, and the right to use these patents (perfectly legally).
The difference being that Apple actually DELIVERED these innovations to the market before Microsoft could, due to their excellence in speedy, lean development cycles, the likes of which Microsoft cannot match?
Maybe Bill is getting so loopy angry, because he is pissed that he has been “Gates’d” by Steve Jobs!?!?
I am SURE that Apple’s solution is more elegant, robust and complete than Microsoft’s, but I personally LOVE the idea that the Apple/Microsoft Patent Cross License deal signed in 1997 has come full circle to bite Microsoft in the ass.
No doubt Bill Gates (smugly) signed that deal thinking that he and Microsoft had WON. he no doubt thought that Apple was so desperate at that stage that they signed away the “crown jewels”, and let Microsoft finally be able to say that any similarity between Apple Mac and MS Windows was LEGAL. No doubt due to his history of LACK of innovation, he couldn’t even conceive that Apple may use their ideas for themselves!
I also have no doubt that Steve Jobs had an end game in mind. He no doubt is smart enough to know how Bill Gates was thinking, and no doubt wary enough of him to ensure that he got someting out of this deal.
At the very least Apple got FULL access to the existing Windows API’s etc that allowed them to produce Boot Camp.
So here you have it. Bill is PISSED big time, cause Apple is doing to him what he did to Apple (well sort of – Apple is doing it totally legally and above the board).
Apple now has the code base for all of MS Windows installed base (except Vista), and based on recent trends and advice from Tech writers that should continue to be at least 90% of their installed base for home users for MANY years to come.
Apple probably HAS taken Microsoft patents developed prior to the expiration of the Patent Cross License deal and IS using them in OS X. They leveraged their speed in development to beat MS to market.
And YES there are OS X features in Vista, which MS has FULL rights to under the Patent Cross License deal.
Big issue for Bill, this isn’t 1984!
Steve is quicker, smarter, and like Bill was in 1983/1984 RUTHLESS in his pursuit of his goal – beat MS!
cont… reached the word limit
cont…
Do not get me WRONG. I personally would admire Steve Jobs even more if this is what he has done.
There is NOTHING wrong with targeting your opponents weakness which in 1997 (when the Patent Cross License deal was signed) and now it is Gates’ ego and fully exploiting it for your benefit. In the early 80’s Gates targeted Steve Jobs’ weakness his idealism and trust that the PC industry was a “family affair” and that he and Gates were friends.
It was Gates that signed away the “crown jewels” in 1997. He gave Apple full access to the Windows code base, so that Apple could create the situation where an Apple Mac (on Intel) could run Windows.
What about MS Office? Notice the fact that Apple’s Pages, Keynote etc have no issue with saving/reading MS Office formats? Bet you they were part of the Patent Cross License agreement too!? Steve is not only going to push MS off the desktop OS space, he is going to take the other MS “crown jewel” too, MS Office. Not all of it, but enough to make Bill Gates cry!
” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”wink” style=”border:0;” />
Best part is Bill Gates cannot come out and say “Apple took these ideas as part of the Patent Cross License deal” as that would indicate to his shareholders (and the rest of the world) how incompetent he is/was by agreeing to sign that deal and underestimating the passion and commitment Steve Jobs must have to beating the pants off him.
Then there is the report that MS has an EULA that PROHIBITS home versions of Vista using virtualisation to run Vista. I think that is a reaction to the fact they know they have a MAJOR threat with the current situation of Windows being able to be run on an Apple Mac.
What about the MS obsession with iPod and Zune and now the reports of going after the iPhone too!? Maybe Bill Gates is SO PISSED he wants to go after EVERYTHING Apple is doing?
What if the Intel move was more than just the issue of processor technology advances? “MAYBE” (I don’t think so) the PPC platform is still superior? Maybe the only issue with the PPC platform is that is doesn’t allow Steve Jobs to “bend Gates over” and stick it too him with Boot Camp and virtualisation as part of his end game which was to ensure that the Patent Cross License deal was in Apple’s favour not Mr Gates’?
Maybe all of the above is a load of bull? Probably, but if it isn’t, if Steve Jobs has done what I have described above, then he is truly one of the best (if not the best) business strategists of all time.
So yes Bill Gates has “lost his mind” in anger and frustration that Steve Jobs is whopping his ass. He is hurting big time that he has basically let his ego sign away the ill gotten MS Windows dominance of the market.
Just my 2 cents,
Luke
Furthermore, I put it to MDN that posts consistently mentioning “Mac fanboys” are part of some Microsoft spin project.
I could…you know…make it sound like it’s just the rant of a fanatic community rather than a discussion of serious merit.
– Well, that’s the plan! Would $10,000 do? Remember, we want documentation….
LukeinOZ,
Thanks for your post, it made for riveting reading. What you said just might be true.
Now Steve and Co., remember what I’ve said-Make sure everyone knows your products are priced similarly to the competition, UNIX is solid security, and your software is fun and easy to use. Then next Macworld, you can boast your 20% home market share.
I have Windows computers here with THOUSANDS of hours of consecutive continuous uptime, no crashing, no rebooting and especially no overheating, all while serving 4 different database applications over the web to thousands of users, making music, burning CDs, browsing the web and whatnot, I know one should not do these things with a web server, but with Windows I CAN.
Thousands of hours of consecutive uptime means nothing – 2000 hours of continuous uptime is completed in as little as 11 weeks, which means you haven’t rebooted since 18th November. Every 1000 hours of uptime is equivalent to just under 6 weeks.
So what you mean is you haven’t installed any of Microsoft’s security updates in December or January – all of which required reboots – and possibly other updates going further back.
As for serving multiple DB apps over the web, plus making music, burning CDs and what not; you could do all of this with a standard copy of Mac OS X (not even Server) and – unlike Windows XP or any of MSFT’s crippled client operating systems – serve them out to more than 10 concurrent TCP/IP connections.
Apologies for eratic last post.
I was just on YouTube watching the 1997 Macworld keynote announcement regarding Microsoft and after reading a few of the recent reports about the MS Vista EULA and the way Bill Gates has been reacting it all came together in my head.
In a more orderly summary:
1997 – MS and Apple sign Patent Cross License agreement giving each company access to the technologies they each develop for five years (end 2001)
Under agreement MS has access to early OS X technologies up to 2001 which explains why Vista is just catching up to what Apple had 5-6 years ago. Important note to Apple fans – no use whining about the similarities, it was all part of the agreement.
Under agreement Apple had access to MS Office and Windows code base and technolgies. Apple was free to use this as they wished, and I believe they have, as evidenced by the compatibility between Keynote, Pages etc and MS Office and also the emergence of Boot Camp.
Bill gates is PISSED and publicly declaring parental controls, system wide file search etc were MS innovations. I propose that whilst he may still be lying about this, he MAY ALSO be telling the truth, as Apple had access to these ideas through the agreement and unlike MS that take 7-10 years to release an OS update, Apple acted quickly to not only release the feature into OS X, but also refine it!
I propose that Steve Jobs and Apple had a plan in signing that agreement that included moving to Intel (hence all OS X builds from day dot also ran on Intel) so that he could use the patent sharing of Windows prior to 2001 to create Boot Camp, hence allowing Apple to have the security blanket they needed to sway concerned Windows users over to the Apple Mac, and then implement “Embrace and Extinguish”.
I porpose that Steve Jobs and Apple also used that agreement to develop Apple alternatives to MS Office (so as to ensure that if MS did pull the plug on Office for Mac development they didn’t need it anymore). Just as Safari was Apple’s insurance against a world without a MS Internet Explorer for Mac (ironic that IE as default Mac browser was one of the commitments in the orignial MS deal anounced in 1997)
I propose that when Steve Jobs states EMPHATICALLY that they are at least 5 years ahead of their competitors he ISN’T lying, he knows Apple is, because 5 years is exactly the time between the expiration of the Patent Cross License agreement (2001) and when he was making those statements (2006). He also knows that Leopard features are outside of that agreement, and so anything they do there are out of bounds for MS.
I propose that Bill Gates is acting so angrily to the suggestions that Apple innovated all of the features in Vista (and challenging people to speak to Jim Allchin) because he is probably frustrated by the truth that SOME of the Visat features were Microsoft developed and made their way into OS X because Apple can develop and release software in tighter timelines – and that must hurt the most!
I also propose the reason he is so rattled is that he is starting to see the full story. He is realising that Steve has SCREWED him. He has annoyed that he isn’t as smart as he thought and that whilst he won the “windows/Mac” battle during the 80/90’s, Steve is going to win the OS/home media war!
MDN is right, this isn’t 1984, or 1997 and the world has got wiser to Bill Gates and MS bull. But I believe the bigesst change in wisdom was with Steve Jobs.
Could be all rubbish, it is specualtion, however I believe the recent actions and decisions and products Apple and MS have released fit with this theory and, as I stated before, if this is correct then we are witness to one of the greates business strategies of all time. Embrace and Extinguish at a WHOLE new level. Not just at the end user level, but from the very source down. In the 1997 MacWorld Key note, Steve embraced Bill Gates and MS as a partner, and he will extinguish them in the near future. Now some may say, yes but Steve also said, we must let go of the notion that for Apple to succeed MS must fail (or words to that effect), but Steve didn’t say that that notion should last forever. He also clearly stated that at that time Apple NEEDED MS, which was true, but imagine the satisfaction Steve would get from USING MS to save Apple and then using that very help to EVENTUALLY beat MS!?
For those polite enough to read both posts – cheers.
Hope it was at the very least entertaining.
My 4 cents and counting,
Luke
I suppose that this:
“Retaliation….we know that MS sometimes doesn’t fight fair…so they could make changes in their stuff to make things more difficult for a Mac like in SMB, Exchange Servers (Samba depends on MS not making much changes), withhold not only Mac office development (not that I care that much) but just making it harder for us to work along the many MS technologies out there…”
is less of an issue now that Macs can actually run Windows. Office is a cash cow for Microsoft, and even they must realize they’d only be shooting themselves in the foot. It’s not like the Zune’s gonna save ’em (and even the X-Box isn’t totally done deal yet).
LukeinOz
Your post was VERY intertaining – worth the 4 cents, and so much more
” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”cheese” style=”border:0;” />
>Luke in Oz wrote: Then there is the report that MS has an EULA that PROHIBITS home versions of Vista using virtualisation to run Vista.
For some, it’s sad that Apple prohibits OSX from running on non-Apple branded products… even though it’s possible and simple to do.
As for the other stuff you wrote, whoa… I’ll be honest. I made it as far as the first paragraph. You sure love to write.
MPC Guy
I wasn’t making a comment about the merit of prohibting or allowing OS X or Vista to run in virtualisation, I was simply saying that it could be a reaction to a perceived threat to MS Windows from Apple.
Which makes sense, as Apple’s reason for their restriction is they are threatened by the posisblility that people would run OS X on hardware they didn’t sell!
As for how much I write, well yes when I have something to say (beyond just cheap dig at someone else’s post MPC Guy), I like to elaborate and support what I am saying with some explanation.
But you are correct, I do like to write. Guilty as charged!
” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”tongue wink” style=”border:0;” />
Continuing that theme, I’d like to point out something…
Just like Bill Gates says he hasn’t seen the Get a Mac ads, but proceeds to have a go at the theme and basic premise of the ads, you claim “As for the other stuff you wrote, whoa… I’ll be honest. I made it as far as the first paragraph. You sure love to write.” Yet the comment I made about EULA was in the 6th paragraph of the 2nd HALF of my post!
” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”wink” style=”border:0;” />
I’d say the complusion to have a go at things things you APPARENTLY haven’t even seen or read is a Windows user thing, but I use Windows exclusively everyday, so it can’t be that.
I don’t even own a Mac – I get a free lenovo T60 laptop as part of my job, so I couldn’t justify purchasing another computer of ANY flavour. I’m on here because I own an iPod, I have a passion for good technology, I own shares in Apple and if I ever BOUGHT my own PC I’d buy a Mac. Now that my work has banned the use of iTunes on my work PC I imagine I’ll be buying a Mac very soon.
My 6 cents,
Luke
PS – Apple may not want Mac OS X running on non Apple machines, but rumour has it Parallels is working on software to allow Dells with Windows installed to run Mac OS X in virtualisation (http://www.macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/will_steve_jobs_release_mac_os_x_for_any_old_intel_pc/). I bet Apple doesn’t like that.
First commercially successful GUI – Apple (first GUI was produced by Doug Englebart)
First computer to be shipped with a mouse – Apple Macintosh I
First commercially successful multitasking OS – Commodore Amiga
First multitasking OS for x86 architechture – IBM OS/2
First platform to poularize 3D graphics – Sony PSX
First platform to poularize 3D graphics on x86 – 3Dfx Glide
Most successful single computer system of all time – Commodore 64 (30 million)
Longest surviving computer system of all time – Apple ][ (1976 to 1992)
… even MS’s greates ‘triumphs’
BASIC was around for some time by the time Bill reworked it into MS BASIC
MS SQL was bought from Sybase
PowerPoint was bought from Forethought
Internet Explorer was bought from Spyglass
MSDOS was stolen outright from QDOS
Word was a Wordstar clone
Access was a dBase clone
Excel was a 1-2-3 clone
All three used kernal hooks below the API to perform better than their competitors, hooks which were never publicized about at the time
What MS did have was bullying power. Due to good timing and a strategic partnership with IBM, MS learned quickly there was more to be made in printing CDs than processors. They entered the market with a hostile mentality gobbling up all the software they could and regurgitating it as their own great innovations. They ridiculed and bullied everyone else into submission, locking companies down with restrctive licensing agreements. Consumers were blindsided and not knowing truth from fiction believed the loudest – Microsoft. Well, all I can hope is that Vista is the end for MS. Based on my company and from what I’ve read, no one’s jumping on this bandwagon…
I actually enjoy all of this history and speculation . . . I was unaware of the minutia of the larger story of personal computing. Thanks guys. My personal number one jeñio inducing Microsoft move of late is their payment to Universal from Zune profits . . . not really relevant here though.
First commercially successful GUI – Apple (first GUI was produced by Doug Englebart)
First computer to be shipped with a mouse – Apple Macintosh I
First commercially successful multitasking OS – Commodore Amiga
First multitasking OS for x86 architechture – IBM OS/2
First platform to poularize 3D graphics – Sony PSX
First platform to poularize 3D graphics on x86 – 3Dfx Glide
Most successful single computer system of all time – Commodore 64 (30 million)
Longest surviving computer system of all time – Apple ][ (1976 to 1992)
… even MS’s greates ‘triumphs’
BASIC was around for some time by the time Bill reworked it into MS BASIC
MS SQL was bought from Sybase
PowerPoint was bought from Forethought
Internet Explorer was bought from Spyglass
MSDOS was stolen outright from QDOS
Word was a Wordstar clone
Access was a dBase clone
Excel was a 1-2-3 clone
All three used kernal hooks below the API to perform better than their competitors, hooks which were never publicized about at the time
Windows was released one year after Macintosh, but not until ten years later was Windows technologically comparable
Aero’s interface, even – Aqua was transparent from day one.
What MS did have was bullying power. Due to good timing and a strategic partnership with IBM, MS learned quickly there was more to be made in printing CDs than processors. They entered the market with a hostile mentality gobbling up all the software they could and regurgitating it as their own great innovations. They ridiculed and bullied everyone else into submission, locking companies down with restrctive licensing agreements. Consumers were blindsided and not knowing truth from fiction believed the loudest – Microsoft. Well, all I can hope is that Vista is the end for MS. Based on my company and from what I’ve read, no one’s jumping on this bandwagon…
MDN Magic Word “going”: as in “going, going…”
Bill gates- republican.
See the connection?
Ah, right again.
Is it me, or is Mr. Gates sounding more and more like a Fanboy?!?
His logic is shotty at best, he makes wild stabs to try to cover up the mistakes he makes in the first place…do I need to go on?
Wikipedia denotates:
“Fanboy… is a term used to describe an individual… who is utterly devoted to a single fannish subject, or to a single point of view within that subject, often to the point where it is considered an obsession. Fanboys remain loyal to their particular obsession, disregarding any factors that differ from their point of view. They are also typically hateful to the opposing brand or competition of their obsession regardless of its merits or achievements.”
Now his statements are classic, textbook examples of this definition.
Luke… As you admit, your posts are long. I can’t say that I read them, I don’t have *that* much patience. As for making cheap insults, I really don’t see that as the case. Many posters here post ridiculous commentary. Some love that sort of stuff, I don’t really go for it. In any case, I don’t resort to the typical name-calling. I’ll stick to reason, mixed in with a friendly jab here and there.
Glad you didn’t get all frazzled like most.
—
All that aside, you mention that MS prohibiting Vista virtualisation on Macs is a reaction to Macs being all-of-a-sudden able to run Windows.
That’s probably exactly why they did it.
I brought up how Apple does the same thing – limiting OSX licensees to using it on only Apple-branded hardware.
Since the technology is available to run OSX on Windows, it’s more unfair on Apple’s part by making it illegal to run OSX on anything non-Apple, virtualisation or otherwise.
Why is MS the evil one in this case? Apple is doing far worse, limiting their OS to only Apple computers. MS is limiting their OS only as far as disallowing lower versions from running under virtualisation.
That’s quite a double standard.
As for Virtualisation… as it relates to the topic (security, similarity to OSX, etc)…
Perhaps MS should just start from scratch and leave x86/Windows compatibility to virtualisation.
I would love to see a lean, secure, completely modernized Windows that doesn’t have the inherent flaws of all versions up to Vista. It would run legacy Windows apps like Rosetta runs PPC code on Intel Macs.
Where are all these daily exploits on the Mac that Bill talks about?
Any of you folks hit by any of them?
Thought not! Me either!
Bill has to pitch Windows, he’s obviously jealous as hell of OSX.
There is NO denying it.
Hey MPC Guy,
I agree, I am not surprised with MS stopping people using Vista in virtualisation, I also don’t buy into the it’s OK for Apple not OK for MS debates – that’s rubbish! That is why I noted that I have no problem with Apple lifting MS ideas under a contract terms (just as Gates claims he did with Apple Mac all those years back). In fact I am guessing the reason that Apple has such a strong arm legal department these says is because of the weak assed contracts they signed with MS all those years back, I’d imagin they learnt their lesson.
I also agree with the notion of a virtualised legacy Windows. In fact I thought that when MS bought Virtual PC that was what they were heading towards in order to finally jettison the baggage of all that swiss cheese code that has become Windows XP (from DOS).
But here is where I have to hand it to Apple. They have been willing to make the bold moves (Classic OS to OS X, and then PPC to Intel) in order to move forward as cleanly as possible. MS just seem inherently “wedded” to DOS/registry/DLL in some sick way. They cannot take the leap and set themselves and the whole industry free from that quagmire.
In fact I think that is MS’s issue. I believe they DO HAVE some talented programmers and software engineers, problem is they can’t TRULY TRULY innovate from scratch, cause they are not allowed to jettison the DOGMA.
Which is also ironic, because Apple and the Mac is seen as a religion of sorts, and MS the RATIONAL computing choice, yet Steve Jobs and Apple have shown a willingness to dispose of previously held DOGMA of the Apple Religion when it is required or suits them to move forward.
In fact you could say the only TRUE dogma at Apple is MOVE FORWARD, RENEW, no matter what the colateral damage.
Sure the FAITHFUL kick and scream as they are FORCED to UNLEARN their indoctrination, but they soon come to realise that Steve and Apple are right (once again).
Peace
Luke
“weasely dweeb”?
Is Microsoft PAYING MDN to make Mac users seem like irrational zealots?
Stop making the stereotypes true, MDN. When you use name-calling instead of logic, you encourage Mac users to behave like 11-year-olds. Just like Windows users expect.
@ Luke
Your posts are ossem. Keep it up!
-c
MW: ‘music’ (to my stock price)
OK, we’ve had plenty of fun bashing Microsoft. Any rumors, speculations, or buzz about when Apple will be releasing new products, excepting iPhone and 10.5, of course?
Excellent article.
You may not know about Microsoft’s Virtual PC fiasco that fits in with your speculation.
Virtual PC allows Windows to run via emulation on Power PC Macs, so when Apple moved to OS X, M$ bought Virtual PC for millions of dollars, then delayed and delayed and delayed the upgrade from OS 9, thereby screwing Mac Users who needed to run Windows on their machines.
Then Apple announced the Intel switch, and cut MS off at the knees. The millions it had spent on Virtual PC to screw Apple was up in smoke. They probably had to pull Ballmer down from the nearest bell tower he had climbed with a machine gun.
> then delayed and delayed and delayed the upgrade from OS 9…
Actually, Virtual PC was already running on Mac OS X before Microsoft bought it from Connectix. The thing that got delayed a bit was support for the G5. Apparently, Connectix used some optimization that was specific to the G4, not present in the G5. So MS had to rewrite that part of the code, which caused the delay.
Also, Microsoft bought Virtual PC more for the virtualization technology on Intel machines, to compete with other companies with such technology. The purpose of such technology is for testing (running multiple configs of Windows on the same machine) and for support of legacy applications during a corporate migration to a new platform. That part of Virtual PC lives on in Virtual PC 2004 and 2007. And it is now free.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/virtualpc/default.mspx
Virtual PC for Mac is dead. It’s still being sold and supported, but there will be no future versions for Intel Macs. So Microsoft did lose some value from the purchase. But I wouldn’t make this into MS trying to “screw” Apple and Apple screwing them back by going to Intel scenario. That’s a bit of a stretch.
It should come as no surprise that not only is Gates a liar — he may actually have deluded himself into believing his BS as he has more money than anybody’s God, i.e. since money is the measure of “success,” I must be right all the time — what is truly amazing is that interviewers let him (and the Bushies) get away with it. Reporters now seem only to do one of two things: 1) Ask easy questions & let the responder saying anything without any followup; or 2) Merely parrot back what the reporter has been told. How many times have you heard a reoprter (even on NPR) say, Tony Snow said this, Bill Gates said that — and that is all that is said. They can say what they want with impunity. And as no one calls them on it, people assume it must be true. No interaction, no confrontation when it is obvious to anyone with half a brain that it is a lie. But, we seem to be a culture with less than half a brain. When I left the Windows coroprate world the first thing I did was get a Mac. And now years later, it is still difficult to believe how many people have been indoctrinated into believing that Microsoft is the be all end all. They are literally scared to death of switching. Really. I have seen the fear in their eyes.
With regard to Bill Gates’s trying to buy his way into heaven . . . .
Actually, I’m pretty sure he is only trying to buy himself a Nobel Peace Prize.
Good luck with that!
OK folks.
For Billy Gates NOT to give his $$$$$$-illions to a charity, being the richest person on the globe, would be a humanistic mistake on par with bombing an island of people for no reason at all. The flack that he would catch would alone motivate anyone of his many financial advisors, etc. to make it absolutely necessary to create this fund. Are you kidding?
He is not saving the world more than he is saving face.
Think about it still…even beyond this. He would be a target. I would be afraid in his shoes if I did not set up some kind of humanistic mission. I am a God-fearing person, and I’d like to not be man-fearing, but in this case, I’d be fearing both pretty equally.
plug…Come visit me at my website I’ll be putting out soon
” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”smile” style=”border:0;” /> (just another blog-like site to take the conversation further. Thanks..and, I love MDN.
Bill Gates “Nowadays, security guys break the Mac every single day. Every single day, they come out with a total exploit, your machine can be taken over totally.”
I can’t believe that there have been four pages of comments and not one person has noticed what Bill really said. I’ll quote it again, read it carefully ……”Nowadays, security guys break the Mac every single day. Every single day, they come out with a total exploit, your machine can be taken over totally.”
Prior to Bill’s revelation, everybody at Microsoft and all of Microsoft’s paid-for journalists always insisted that the reason why OS X was untroubled by security issues was because there weren’t enough Macs around to make it worth attacking them.
But now, the ‘security through obscurity myth’ is officially debunked by Bill himself. There really are an army of security guys working to break OS X and the fact that there isn’t one single OS X virus is no longer attributable to the smaller market share of Macs. Macs have now been proved to be secure by design and it was Bill that told us.
Wow, Gates is reality out of touch with reality. True failure to understand their competition. I don’t get it. How can you run a company and not know about the competitor’s ads? How can you not know about Apple’s parental controls?
Gates is just typical old turd now — outdated and out of touch. I wonder how Steve Jobs manages Apple. My guess is that he is more detail oriented and more of a micro-manager than Gates.
If I was the journalist, I would just ask him one question:
“If I were the average home consumer, then why I should spend $299 or $399 right now for your new operating system?”
You Mac fanboys need to get a life.
I guess I shouldn’t expect anything but Mac lovers on here consider the source. But geez, the world doesn’t revolve around Apple and their crappy products.
You’re a joke.
What’s a windows fanboy doing here to just call out “mac fanboys”. I can tell. If you were going to give a real argument, you would have. Give us one reason why Apple’s products are crappy. Besides being expensive, because that doesn’t make ANYTHING crappy. If windows was 40,000 dollars for each copy, you wouldn’t be saying a fu0king thing.
Apple has done some great stuff by introducing features that nobody wanted until they were there. Microsoft has only managed to put in features that have proved successful. The only time I ever saw them get creative was Aero peek, which just sucks ass.
Apple computers are better because their kernel was designed for networking and network-grade and enterprise-grade security. They have a team working on finding exploits so they can patch them up quickly. They match software to hardware and vice versa so they work together almost flawlessly. They make their own drivers instead of just relying on the hardware vendors. Their software uses the hardware better than windows streams software through hardware.
You may hate Apple, and you may hate their operating system, but there is no denying that they put together a great product line, and that their computers have great hardware, and it’s much better put together.
‘Nough said.
A little history…
from the open source dictionary..
M$
Halloween documents are here…BOO!
…remember BG & co. calling Linux and open source a Cancer???
and all of their online FUD campaigns (which ironically were running on linux servers) 😎
…ahhh fun times…always the same MS M.O.
Only this time the internet has informed some of the masses.
Wake Up Wired People!
Stephen: Congratulations. Your post wins the “dumbest ever reply” award. Loosen your chin strap and stfu.
Gates is a liar. Ballmer is a liar and a violent mess. Microsoft is a convicted monopolist that writes it’s own rules. Vista is more proof that MS is incompetent. Shut it down now.
You geeks are looking at this waay too closely
Funny story. My friend who lives with me bought a new PC today. He says that if he really wanted a computer that he wouldn’t beat up and possibly throw out the window, he’d get a Mac, but he couldn’t afford it yet. So back to the PC. Very first thing that heppened when we started it up? It went to the stupid configure XP screen (yeah, it’s new, but old enough new that it still ships with XP instead of Vista), and when he tried to move the mouse? Nothing. So I went and got my trackball from my computer, plugged it into the USB port, worked fine. Got to a screen where you have to type something. Tried to type. Nothing. Went and got my mom’s wireless keyboard that hooks up through PS/2, because I thought my keyboard wouldn’t work since it’s a Mac keyboard. Nothing. Got my keyboard. Worked fine. So after about 45 minutes of trying to get it to work, we found out that we had to install the drivers for the mouse and keyboard. That’s right, a brand new computer, which you absolutely need to use the mouse and keyboard to even get into the main interface, didn’t have the mouse and keyboard drivers installed. So we install the drivers. Still nothing, except now the lights on the keyboard were flashing. Finally, I look in the Owner’s Manual for the keyboard, and it says you have to turn off the computer, plug in the keyboard, and then turn it on again. Yeah. Way to go PC crap. Uninstalled drivers for necessary peripherals. Utter lack of plug-and-play on one of the most plugged and unplugged devices. Way to go.
Gates didn’t say he never saw a single one of those ads. The interviewer cited a specific version of the ad (pertaining to Vista) and Gates said “I’ve never seen it,” referring specifically back to that version only.
Just saying…
How nice of Mr Gates to hand his arse on a plate to a competitor. The philantrophic spirit must be seeping in really deep.
PC fanboys: what’s even stupider is for you to come over to our house and call us stupid Mac fanboys. Read the sign on the door, d’uh. Are you sure you know who the stupid one is?
In your own words: “Get a life”, eh.
Gates please tells us that you don’t have a maccc pleaseee we all know you have one at homeeee…..it is irresistibleee…. liarr
In case you guys didn’t notice the cartoon in the MDN side bar:
http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/index.html
A classic!!
that cartoon is great!
Do all mac fans have their heads as far up their asses as much as you pathetic losers? I’m not doubting that Macs are better than Windows when it comes to functionality, but seriously, quit claiming superiority with your 5% market share, get a life and, by god, stop acting like arrogant dicks. Maybe only then, and when the Macworld expos stop seeming like religious gatherings where Steve Jobs and Mac fanboys gather to perform some sort of ritual, can Apple hope to gain significant market share.
Got I hate you fucking Mac twat’s… When are you retards gonna learn that a computer (Mac or PC) is a tool and not a fucking religion!!
Well, as soon as you stop praising windows as if it’s the best thing since sliced bread, it won’t be a religion anymore. You Pc f–kers need to realise that your cult of mac haters is also very religious for what it is. So try to set an example by SHUTTING THE F–K UP!
Re: Rayman and Dewey‘s
LOL
So you come onto MacDailyNews.com (notice the MAC in the title) and put in the effort to call us losers and twats?
Riiiiiiiiight…. we’re the losers
” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”hmmm” style=”border:0;” />
Excuse me? Bill Gates is a ‘bastard’? What is it with you guys? Can’t you just be a little civil? Do you honestly what you’re saying here is going to persuade non-mac users to switch?
Would anyone call a boat secure if the crew were constantly patching wholes in the hull???
-Windows History Lesson-
Bill Gates “Vista’s got some pretty cool and original new features, like the desktop gadgets, and desktop search” 2007 Windows Vista PR speech.
Bill Gates “Windows XP is the most advanced operating system in the world today” 2001 Windows XP launch putting Windows NT in fancy dress, so it doesn’t look so old against OS-X 10.
Bill Gates “…revolutionary desktop layout” Windows 95 launch, by cunningly putting the mac file menu on the bottom of the screen instead of the top
Bill Gates “Lots of easy to use applications with a user friendly graphical interface” launch of windows 186, a GUI with the macs ‘close’, ‘restore’ and ‘minimise’ buttons on the right of the title bar instead of the left.
Bill Gates “We call it MS-DOS” after reverse engineering IBM DOS.
I dont care for Vista, its ME all over again.
To get this system to run Vista cost me almost $800
I was looking for information on MAC’s and ran across this site. I must say after reading the article and headings for the other articles on the site and the comments left here, it brings back memories from the 70’s all the “My computer is better than yours”, Commadore, Coco’s, Amigas and the like, nice to know people never grow up.
Reading the headings on this site makes me think there is nothing more here than a bunch of children with keyboards and no homework..
I’m not a M$ fan, personally I blame BG for holding the computer industry back, but being in the market for a MAC (as a side system), this site alone would make me look in another direction.
SItes like this do more harm to Mac’s than good. I cant see an adult doing research on the net and finding this site a good pr site.
Think about it (I’m sure this post will generate a ton of flaming but I wont be back to read it!)
HE SAID THAT HE HASN’T SEEN THAT PARTICULAR AD. THATS WHY HE IS ABLE TO SAY THAT PC USERS AREN’T DULLARDS… DONT BE TOO HATING MAC USERS…
Calling Bill Gates “bullshit” is the crapiest thing Apple could’ve done, besides this proves what childishly crappy & desperate phaze Apple is goin through… He is the richest because he is the smartest, and because of his dream of “a compuer in every house”. It is because of his dream all you sorry ass commentators are able to read and reply to this shit.
You’ll never find Gates defending himself against his competitors actions to degrade his reputation, because he is to busy making life easier for your fat & lazy asses.
If you wanna fight gates, create a software company and break his, & if you ain’t got the guts to do that, Shut the Hell up!
It seems as though Bill Gates is doing the same job he’s done all his life (and now Ballmer after him). Take features that have already been done, see to it that they get out as soon as possible, and TRY, JUST TRY to lie and make people believe that you had it first. F–k you Bill. we all know OSX 10.3 had spotlight instant search years before Vista. We all know parental controls were in Macintosh, AND EVEN LINUX years before you had it. We should all know that Mac OSX is way more secure with the way it handles file permissions. We all know a Yes or No prompt is not safe. And vista was only secure because it wasn’t compatible with anything.
Needing a password to do anything potentially harmful, even though you’re on the admin account; THAT’S REAL SECURITY. No this “Yes or No” prompt that Vista introduced.