Microsoft’s Zune Marketplace will sell individual songs for Windows PCs and Zune digital media players “through a system called Microsoft Points. The new Microsoft cash system will work by adding money to an account, as with a prepaid phone card. Points will then be deducted from the account with each purchase. A single song will cost 79 points, ‘the equivalent of 99 cents,’ according to Microsoft spokeswoman Kyrsa Dixon,” Candace Lombardi reported in late September for CNET News.
Lombardi reported, “The point system is already used in the Xbox Live Marketplace, and Microsoft plans to host other online stores where Microsoft points can be redeemed, according to Katy Gentes, product marketing manager for Zune. In the United States, points are available in denominations of $5 for 400 points, $15 for 1,200, $25 for 2,000 and $50 for 4,000. That makes $1 worth about 80 points.”
Full article here.
MacDailyNews Take: Several MacDailyNews readers have suggested that we do the math, so here’s the deal:
• 79 Microsoft Points equals 99-cents or one song.
• The smallest amount of Microsoft Points available for purchase is $5.00 or 400 points.
• Each Microsoft Point is worth 1.25-cents.
• So, you give Microsoft your $5 and buy your 5 songs. That’s 395 total points. Microsoft has your 5 points or 6.25-cents “left over.”
• Say you want an album’s worth, or 10 songs? You give Microsoft $10 for 800 points and buy 10 songs for 790 points. Microsoft has your 10 points or 12.5-cents “left over.”
• See where we’re headed? Microsoft is taking money from their pigeons, er… “customers” and placing it in an interest-bearing account to earn themselves more money on their generous customers’ interest-free “loans.”
• Now, if you don’t wish to give Microsoft your money to use for free to generate interest income for Microsoft, you need to figure out exactly how many 79-point songs to buy, so that no points are left over. The magic formula to avoid giving Microsoft a free loan is 79 points x 400 (smallest denomination available for purchase) = 31,600 points or 400 songs at 79 points each. Total cost: US$395. Not very practical, is it?So, the real point is clear: Microsoft’s “points” are designed to confuse consumers and generate interest income from “left over” amounts. Now you know exactly why “1 Microsoft Point” doesn’t equal “1 U.S. Cent.” Boy, if Microsoft can dupe enough people into this Microsoft Points scheme, those “left overs” will really add up.
To buy even a single 99-cent song from the Zune store, you have to purchase blocks of “points” from Microsoft, in increments of at least $5. You can’t just click and have the 99 cents deducted from a credit card, as you can with iTunes. You must first add points to your account, then buy songs with these points. So, even if you are buying only one song, you have to allow Microsoft, one of the world’s richest companies, to hold on to at least $4.01 of your money until you buy another. And the point system is deceptive. Songs are priced at 79 points, which some people might think means 79 cents. But 79 points actually cost 99 cents. – Walt Mossberg, The Wall Street Journal, November 09, 2006
In stark contrast to Microsoft, Apple charges real currency. You buy a song from the U.S. iTunes Store for 99-cents, you pay 99-cents. You can buy one just one song, if you like, and you’ll be charged 99-cents. No left overs. No formulas. No “points” scheme. Just a single, simple, straight-up, honest transaction.
It’s marketing and it’s psychological. Buying something for 79 points seems less than buying something for 99 cents..
clearly allen, you intend to redefine logic.
see, here on earth, .79 IS ALWAYS less than .99
Uhm
Whats the point with Microsoft deals?
I’m so tired of Microsoft I cannot even tell you. I have been a Windows user since Windows 3.1 and have used every version since then. Two years ago I switched to a Mac. My eyes were opened and I see more and more what crap they do. They are a horrible, horrible company with very little ethics. Now, Bill Gates is at least using his money for good right now, so I don’t want to pick on him. But his company SUCKS. Makes me wonder if he is involved in philanthropy because of his guilt over his past business tactics. Nah.
And why do we even care? Zune is a lost cause. Let’s get over it before Microsoft does.
1.A large majority of people in the world don’t own credit cards or debit cards.This eliminates that barrier.
2.Those points will be used for marketing promotions and prizes in the future.
It gets worse. Apple charges my local sales tax on my iTunes purchases. I would assume Microshaft would do the same, so when I wanted to buy my 5 songs with my 400 points, where wouldn’t be enough points to pay for the sales tax, so I’d have to buy another 400 points to cover the tax. Or, maybe they charge me sales tax when I buy the point. My brain hurts just thinking about it. Stick with Apple. It’s just easier.
Microsoft may also be working to improve their cost margins by reducing credit card transactions fees.
There is a transaction cost for charging to a credit card. Charging less frequently and at higher amout per transaction can also reduce the transaction costs which Microsoft pays.
Credit cards are often unaware or forget about the transaction cost paid as a percentage on the retailer’s side.
another good example of how Microsoft designs things with THEIR interests first and foremost, not the consumers/
there is no consumer advantage to the points system. it simply provides Microsoft an interest free loan from your pocket.
>It gets worse. Apple charges my local sales tax on my iTunes purchases.>NOT TRUE!!
I bought 1 tune in Cal. from the Apple store. My credit card was charged 99c. I did it specifically to check the total cost of 1 tune.
OK, Let’s close microsoft and give the “POINTS” back to the shareholders….. Rigth Mr. Dell?
“Calling all mathematicians! Can you buy Microsoft Points (available in denominations of $5 for 400 points, $15 for 1,200, $25 for 2,000 and $50 for 4,000) in such a way as to buy your songs without leaving any free “left overs” for Microsoft to use to generate interest income? If so, what’s the formula?”
Guys, you don´t need to be a mathematician for this one: Don´t hold me accountable if the use of technical terms isn´t corretc, as I´m no native english speaker, but the solution is this:
– one song: 79
– smallest set: 400
– what´s the lowest common multiple (LCM)?
– in order to determine that that question it is helpful to find out if these two numbers have a greatest common factor (GCF)
– 79 is prime number, so there is no CGF, so the LCM is 79*400 or 31,200, exactly twice the number you guys came up with.
or:
– seven (7) $50 sets of points for 28,000
– one (1) $25 set of points for 2,000
– one (1) $15 set of points for 1,200
$390 total
Rgrds
Matt from Spain
Not that uncommon – expect to see this more and more on other online retail sites that have to deal with micropayments that would otherwise get eaten up by credit card transaction fees. Ever wonder why iTunes waits several days to charge your CC? It’s because they want to rack up any other purchases you make on following days into the same batch and save on processing fees. What MS is doing isn’t too far from buying a gift certificate or gift card. Retailer retains balance until it’s used up. Nothing that shady here. Consider it a mini paypal account within MS. I’m a mac person, but I’m just looking at this from a sensible business perspective.
Yeah, it’s easy.
– three (3) $50 sets of points for 12,000
– one (1) $25 set of points for 2,000
– minus the square root of $15 set of points @ 1,200 each.
– Add the natural log of the smaller of the first two numbers.
– No, sorry, I mean subtract the log base 10 of the larger of the two numbers.
– No, sorry, ummm, I think its actually the inverse of the first set of 15 points…
– No, ummm………
– Oh, bugger it, I’ll get an iPod.
No, no, no Micro Me.
You ADD the square root of $15 set of points @ 1,200 each.
Jeez, Microsoft goes to all this trouble for you and you still don’t get it.
Now, sit up straight, and pay attention.
And, no, you can’t go out for a zune.
Here is another way, I think …
Buy a block of 400p. Buy 4 songs. Leaves a remainder of 84p. Buy another block of 400p. Buy 4 songs. Leaves a remainder of 168p. And so on.
Do this 79 times. By then you will have 6636 points which allows you to buy 84 songs with no remainder.
Grand total 80*5=$4,000.
Simple.
Matt, I still get 74 points remaining after buying songs with your 31,200 points. Not that I intend to have anything to do with the brown squirter, but one solution is: (2) $5 sets of 400, (2) $15 sets of 1200, and (15) $50 sets of 4000 for a total of $790 and 63,200 points. That’s exactly 800 songs with no points remaining.
Someone check my math…
I wonder if the points expire, or otherwise explode? Good for three days only, or the first three song purchases? Can you share your points with a friend?
Matt was right, just got his 79*400 wrong
79 is a prime so it is its own lowest factor.
400 points is minimum purchase.
So you need 31,600 points.
seven (7) $50 sets of points for 28,000
– one (1) $25 set of points for 2,000
– one (1) $15 set of points for 1,200
– one (1) $5 set for 400
$395 total
Hey guys, the maths is easy.
First note that M$ formulae gives no discount for bulk purchases so to keep it simple we will only consider $5 blocks.
Buy 79 blocks of $5 (400 points) for a total of $395
This will let you purchase 400 songs exactly.
Now I don’t know about you but the thought of selecting 400 songs in one session just to prevent M$ from getting advantage financially makes my head hurt. Yet if you do not, then M$ is making money off all these little slices of our money. It sounds like the salami computer fraud technique, only executed legally and with the victims consent.
I will stick with my iPod and just pay for what I want at the time I want it. Every company that operates a points purchase scheme does so for their own benefit and not for the benefit of their customers. My personal opinion is that such schemes ought to be illegal under consumer protection laws. They are all legalised fraud.
As for M$ paying charges on each transaction – bol***ks. Don’t forget the M$ owns a bank. They pay charges to the credit cards that are less than Apple which does not own a bank and therefore participate in the closed club that is bankers clearing.
well, obviously not all of them,
just realised there is no discount for bulk purchases
therefore you have to basically just have to buy 79 sets of 400 points
may as well be $5’s…
79×400/5=$395
done
i wonder if you buy 79 sets of $5 microsoft has to pay credit charges on each one…….
I was sitting here going crazy with the calculator and then I CAME UP WITH THE ANSWER!!
fsck them….
ian / times tables:
yeah right, I go right back, it should hit me in the eye the first time:
79 * 400 must be sth with xxx600 ( 9+4 ), but somehow I screwed this up
sorry
Matt
I think that’s 31,600 not 31,200 which cost $395. There is no discount for buying larger lots of points; $5 gets you 400 points (79 * 400) as you said. These points can be purchased in many different combinations of point unit groups. So as you (almost) stated the minimum transaction is:
– seven (7) $50 sets of points for 28,000
– one (1) $25 set of points for 2,000
– one (1) $15 set of points for 1,200
(and) one (1) $5 set of points for 400
Lots of 400 songs to avoid leftovers.
Hey guys,
Matt from spain was right, but his multiplication sucks
79 x 400 = 31,600 points … this obviously works as you get 400 songs exactly at 79 points.
Now on the cost = 79 x $5 = $395
….. Now, excluding sales tax from the calc, that is $146 more than buying a new 30gb iPod … and all that so as not to leave a few cents to M$ (which is a good enough cause of course)
hmmm … Never did like the M$ guys anyway … stick to your iPods … you all have one anyway so there is no compelling reason to change.
Cheers
In my countrys, 79 point make enough for good sexytime with prostitute.
I do think MS was largely or at least partially motivated by reducing transaction costs. I’m sure Apple would love to save those costs by billing your credit card for larger amounts less often. But they didn’t. Why? Because they were putting ease-of-use and market development first. They absolutely wanted you to be able to buy just one download for just 99 cents.
That’s the thinking that built this market.
My house and office is actually two separate buildings. I bought a iTunes download once because I didn’t feel like going to the other building and finding a song I really wanted to hear. It was only 99c!
$5.00 is a whole different threshold. And points are a layer of complexity. Sorta sounds like MS…
Easy!
You want to buy zero (0) songs for your never-to-be-purchased Zune.
Now, in order to buy zero (0) songs, you’ll need zero (0) points, which will cost you zero (0) dollars, zero (0) x zero (0).
Not only doesn’t you leave any left-overs, zero (0) x zero (0) equals zero (0) left-overs, but you also saves zero (0) dollars! (yeah, well, because zero (0) songs times zero (0) dollars is zero (0) – do the math yourself!)
Anyways, what is saved is earned!
Therefor the formula is:
Earned = Saved x (MS Product / MS Points + MS left-overs)
Nashlore:
I think you just divided by zero!
“The dock and earphones cost $40 each”
I can’t find anything anywhere that states you get any earphones, dock or USB cord with it. I went to http://www.zune.net/en-us/meetzune/device.htm , and nothing!
There are no photos or specs stating what you get in the box. Interestingly, all of the photos on Microsoft.com exclude any hint of any connection cord or dock.
Does it cost an extra $40 in order to connect it to the computer?
simon:
a cable and earphones are included:
http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/12/stores-selling-zunes-early/
For those that think there isn’t much difference between the Zune and iPod, other than size of the devices, compare the tech specs…
http://www.zune.net/en-us/meetzune/device.htm
http://www.apple.com/ipod/specs.html
For example…
Languages:
iPod – Czech, Danish, Dutch, English, Finnish, French, German, Greek, Hungarian, Italian, Japanese, Korean, Norwegian, Polish, Portuguese, Russian, Simplified Chinese, Spanish, Swedish, Traditional Chinese, and Turkish. Additional language support for display of song, album and artist information – Bulgarian, Croatian, Romanian, Serbian, Slovak, Slovenian, and Ukrainian. With support for display of multiple languages and characters simultaneously.
Zune: – English
Go here…
http://www.apple.com/ipod/features.html
…click on each item in the list on the left side, watch the whole animation, then tell me that the Zune is similar to the iPod!
Zune:
Music – Yes
Photos – Yes
Movies – Yes, but none available
TV Shows – Yes, but none available
Podcasts – No
Audiobooks – No
Games – No
Calendars – No
Contacts – No
World Clock – No
Screen Lock – No
Stopwatch – No
Fewer options/features in a much larger case is old technology, and should cost significantly less, much like the current value of the 3rd generation iPods.
FED UP WITH MSBS,
Yes, M$ has a culture — a vampire culture. They are a company based on shafting everybody to win — a massive win/lose/lose/lose … culture. They screw over their customers, partners, acquisition prospects and competitors with unethical and often illegal tactics.
Consumers reports have recently obtained some production samples of the zune and analyzed the case material. It is made out of a unique virtually indestructible material from Uranus corp It. It turna out that the reason it is offered in brown is that is the natural color of the material the other colore (white and black) are tinted.
If Zune Marketplace restrictions and the math are correctly interpreted, a user would have to spend in increments of $395 at Zune Marketplace to breakeven otherwise give Microsoft an interest free loan. Just when you thought you had witnessed the worst possible scenario, Microsoft lowers the bar even further and craps on its customers…again.
Unfortunately M$ allowed let the “cost effectiveness” accountants loose on Zune before they even had a market share.
I have recently seen the “Smartest Guys in the Room”. The movie about Enron. This looks like something those guys would pull. Already cutting features because they are over confident of their market share….that they don’t have….Who does cost cutting accounting on Vapor-Ware? This is somethiing not even M$ has ever done. I forgot what the Enron guys called this…countiing profit under Mark to market conditions…i.e. counting chickens before the eggs are even laid.
M$ announced that Vista is done…it probably isn’t. They are just realizing that they need to get the product out so they do not fade into obscurity. They realize that they need a new cash cow to fund the “dumbass” Zune idea. Too bad for them that Wii and PS3 come out very soon….Bye Bye XBox 360’s market share under uncontested market conditions.
Someone needs to tell Ballmer that it is time to put down the violin and get back to work.
Just my $0.02
P.S. When does the Mac Pro Quad come out? I almost havee enough saved…
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It just struck me that the right metaphor for M$ is the W.C. Fields’ movie character Larsen E. Whipsnade, who advised, “Never give a sucker an even break or wise up a chump.” That is the credo of M$ — the essence of their evil soul.
It seems to me that if the tax is more than a penny, then $5 will only allow you (sorry, I meant someone who might actually own a Zune) to purchase 3 tunes.
All this is only applicable to the USA. The rest of us will be spared all the bullshit. Initially!
We will sit back and see how many numpties (People with nothing in their heads) there are who actually go out and buy one of these pieces of crap and then go through all the rubbish you guys have just posted here to try and get a lousy song on the thing.
Please AMERICA, don’t buy the bloody thing, so M$ drop it as a very bad idea and save the rest of the world from the possibility of this thing getting out of your borders.
Act now, spend your Xmas dollars on an iPod.
Leo
Hey Peterson– where’s your outrage against Microslop? Let me guess: you had laryngitis once?
Notice how Microsoft has to bribe its way into the market. Zune hasn’t even proved itself and there is already accessory makers going nuts with gadgets. Basically Zune won’t earn its market position, but rather but it via Microsoft evil money!
They’re aiming for the same bonehead360 group of kids. These points are great mom, can you get me more?
Hey, folks,
Lots of you seem to be missing the point here: I have no problem with MS (or anyone) choosing to use a point system rather than a real currency to do their transactions. The issue is that they’ve chosen a large prime number for their system, making it impossible to purchase a round number of songs/points for less than the $395 amount noted above.
If they used 100 points = 100 cents (or .84 Euro, or whatever), and charge 100 points/song, then we can purchase tunes and not have leftovers for them. Or heck, even just make the points blocks available in multiples of 79 if that’s the value they want to use. But of course charging in straight-up multiples would be respectful to the customer and we can’t possibly have that now, can we?!
Microsoft has a secret death wish. And I am in not so secret concurrence with them.
“1.A large majority of people in the world don’t own credit cards or debit cards.This eliminates that barrier.
2.Those points will be used for marketing promotions and prizes in the future.”
I’ve read these two points on another forum. They didn’t make any sense then and they don’t now.
1. Being able to buy a card with CASH eliminates this problem. Having a points system has nothing to do with lack of credit or debit cards. This is no way justifies using a points system. Using the magic of common sense, Apple sells cards for iTS which you can buy using cash that have currency values (of course, you still get the left over value problem here, don’t you?). No need to do any conversion. Also, why make EVERYONE do it this way? Why do people with credit and debit cards have to use this silly system?
2. This is also have nothing to do with points. Why require everyone to be involved in these promotions and prize giveaways? This is the equivalent of “no opt out”, which is irritating. You could have a cash system and allow people to convert their extra cash to point for the purpose of prizes or giveaways.
I understand having a card as an option, buy requiring everyone to pay for more than one song at a time and to add the inconvenience of having to do a conversion calculation for every purchase is basically giving the finger to the consumer. Neither is a big deal, but both are the minor nuisances that irritate consumers.
The points system is representative of thought process at MS. The concept of “ease of use” never enters into this way of thinking.
“Consider it a mini paypal account within MS. I’m a mac person, but I’m just looking at this from a sensible business perspective”
Again, this has nothing to do with using POINTS.
99¢ divided by 79pt = 1.25316455696
So 1 point equals over 1.25 cents. Right?
“>It gets worse. Apple charges my local sales tax on my iTunes purchases.>NOT TRUE!!
I bought 1 tune in Cal. from the Apple store. My credit card was charged 99c. I did it specifically to check the total cost of 1 tune.”
FACT: New Jersey has a download (iTunes) sales tax
Reading all this math got me confused and now…. SQUIRT!
I thought this had already been figured out- it’s $495 which gets you 500 songs, not including any sales tax of course.
How does Microsoft pay their employees? In points?
Microsoft = MS = M$ = Mind Sodomy = Mind Fcuk
This is the magic formula Microsloth has been using for decades. It works. Poor lemmings!
My long dark days of miserable isolation are over! I can now join this community that has its own ecosystem of points and WiFi sharing. People just like me will be coming together, socializing where it wasn’t possible before. The world was such a harsh place for those of us who never felt comfortable with standard currency. Are you credited in dollars and cents for your triumphs in Galaxian? No. Recongition is best expressed in POINTS.
Zune is a beacon of hope for us living under bedroom blacklights, Blue Oyster Cult posters and 12-minute Yes songs. This period of detachment is over.
The age of points have begun! Down with money! I am no longer an island!
Thank you Microsoft.
Microsoft used the points system to try to make back some of the money lost on the sale of every Xbox 360.
It’s just natural that they would use the points system to try to make back some of the money they are going to lose on the Zune.
I can’t understand why you guys can’t get your heads around this. Xbox 360 and the Zune player are loss leaders. Everything else costs big time.
Get over it.
I, Joe Sarcasm, approved this statement.
It may be that Microsoft will sell other innovative official Zune products using points.
Zune pocket protector = 2 points
Zune mouse pad = 8 points
Zune bumper sticker = 5 points
Zune t-shirt, short sleeve = 12 points
Zune t-shrt, long sleeve = 17 points
Zune ball cap = 13 points
Zune commerative plates = 40 points
Zune roach clips = free (you gotta be stoned to buy a Zune)
As Zune’s sister, I can vouch for the fact he never leaves his room unless a new Xbox game comes out or he needs to get some anti bacterial stuff from his geeky retard friend for his pp or tp or whatever they call that box of wires that controls him.
It would be , like, so awesome if he would have a real social life? My friends won’t even come over or like stay the night because he reeks of geek and always has a stiffy and it scares them and, oh my God, my girlfriends won’t come over either unless their laptop is spassing and he likes puts a spell on it and then they leave cause his woody woodpecker wants to eeewwwww GET OUT OF MY ROOM ZUNE!!! and quit getting the batteries out of my vibrator, you’ve got your own, freak!
TT
MW:analysis, as in mine.
Use CoinStar for small iTunes Store purchases using cash.
If you buy a standard iTunes Store card you will have left-over money. You can then go to a CoinStar kiosk (coinstar.com) with your pocket change and get an iTS Card for the exact amount you need to round out your account balance. If you get an iTS Card from CoinStar, it will not deduct it’s usual 8.9% fee, and you get your exact amount. This is an excellent way for a teen to turn his pocket cash into a few songs.
GOOD GOD MY MATH IS HORRIBLE. I AM BUT AN ARTEEEST.
1+1=5
iTunes does somewhat the same thing via the gift cards. A $100 card will get you 101 songs and a penny left over. You have to that 99 times to come out even, thats $9900. There may be a lower solution with the smaller cards.
– gws
No, Peeerson
2+2=5
I am your friend
trust me
TT
U.S. students suck at math. That’s why M$ is launching the Zune and Zune Marketplace over there. The capitalists shall destroy themselves courtesy of our friends at M$.
gws,
Yes that’s true, but your next purchase will be the difference, not another $5 or $20.
what about taxes?
On the other hand, since you don’t want a s**t brown thing in your house anyway, just forget the math, have a glass of wine, switch on the iPod, and relaaaxxx…
Spread the word-
1) Go to [insert big name retailer here].
2) Buy a Zune
3) Open the box (ensuring it can’t be resold as new).
4) Then return it for a refund.
5) Repeat [at different retailer]
If enough people do this, it will become very unprofitable for retailers to sell Zunes and will have a negative impact on Micro$uck.
Gates and Balmer are scum bags.
Boy, if Microsoft can dupe enough people into this Microsoft Points scheme, those “left overs” will really add up.
Look what they did with Windoz
If enough people do this, it will become very unprofitable for retailers to sell Zunes and will have a negative impact on Micro$uck.
It also becomes very unprofitable for consumers.
Why?
1. Big box retailers tend to hit you with open-box return fees, or limit open-box returns to exchange only.
2. If you do manage a return, the stores like to stick you with an in-store credit (versus actually giving your money back).
All the more reasons to fuck Zune altogether. Big box stores are all about shelf space and product turnover; the best that’d happen is the Zunes just SIT, and the stores make MS take them back.
How sweet it’d be if MS lost favor with the big retailers…
“1.A large majority of people in the world don’t own credit cards or debit cards.This eliminates that barrier.
So how does one contribute money to their Marketplace account if they don’t have credit cards?
Do they go to participating stores like Best Buy or Circuit City and buy a Point Card for cash? If so, are they not paying tax on that card purchase, which adds to the cost of per-song purchases?
Won’t Microsoft also charge taxes on purchases from Marketplace in the manner Apple iTS does?
So is it, 79 points plus tax?
So I think i worked out a reasonable solution that will help you to purchase these microsft songs without leaving any money behind for them. we must consider that each song is 79 pts. You can then label your point increments as follows…
$5 = 400pts = a
$15 = 1200pts = b
$25 = 2000pts = c
$50 = 4000pts = d
then, if we assume that a,b,c,d and n are whole numbers we can write out the following equation to show how to even our points out….
79n = 400a + 1200b + 2000c + 4000d
Now lets attempt to solve this in order help us choose our points
79n = 400(a + 3b + 5c + 10d)
79/400 = (a + 3b + 5c + 10d)/n
Therefore we must satisfy the following relationships
a + 3b + 5c + 10d = 79 and
n = 400
Thus, if we pick a,b,c, and d to satisfy their equation, and n to 400, we will have succeeded. One solution to this is as follows
d = 70
c = 1
b = 1
a = 1
Thus, by this solution if you spend $395 in order to purchase 31,600 microsoft points then you will be able to purchase 400 songs (n is the number of songs in the equation). This can be scaled up if you would like to purchase more songs, such as 800 or 1200 songs, however, it cannot be scaled down, if you dont want to pay any extra money you must buy in increments of 400 songs. Hope this helps you out in your music buying adventures!
This MS Points system is more idiotic than a bad cell phone plan.
If it’s really about perception (79 points versus 99 cents), then everyone should all-out boycott Zune for MS daring to think we’re that stupid.
Apple’s system is so much better, 99 cents and you’re done. No calculating, no points, no BS. It’s like MS tried to make Points as miserable and as complex as possible.
But then again when you compare product design philosophies between MS & Apple, Zune and Points are just more of the same.
“1) Go to [insert big name retailer here].
2) Buy a Zune
3) Open the box (ensuring it can’t be resold as new).
4) Then return it for a refund.
5) Repeat [at different retailer] “
JUST FOR GIGGLES, I’M GONNA GO DO THIS W/ IPODS BECAUSE STEVE JOBS SUCKS.
YOU MAC-HEADS SERIOUSLY NEED TO GET A LIFE!
I SEE MORE POSTS FROM APPLE TWITS AFRAID MICROSOFT ARE GOING TO TAKE AWAY ANOTHER MARKET FROM THEM. (BEING THE ONLY ONE THEY’VE SUCCEEDED IN IN THE LAST 20 YEARS, THAT’S UNDERSTANDABLE.)
GROW UP MAC-TWITS. YOU’RE GONNA GET STEEVED AGAIN, BUT BY BILL.
FED UP WITH MSBS,
Of course he is. And guess what kind of computer the labs helped by his philanthropic org can buy?
And people wonder why we love our Macs and Apple? Simplicity is the name of the game here folks. Microsoft doesn’t know the meaning of the word apparently. It’s just another reason why the Zune will fail.
Wow, the though that you might leave a cent or two sitting in your Microsoft bank account has got some of you really riled.
If you were into saving money you wouldn’t be buying Macs in the first place.
Songs are also a quarter of a cent cheaper with points, so buy 4 songs from MS, you already save a whole cent over iTunes anyways. Buy a hundred songs, you’ve saved a quarter. So compared to iTunes that’s found money, who cares if that pathetically tiny overage amount is sitting in MS’s points system?
You should do the math to see how many songs you need to buy from the iTunes store for it to be cheaper than the Zune store. I’ll give you a hint. The answer is IT NEVER IS.
Pros of the point system for Microsoft:
Lower transaction costs for Microsoft.
Allows the easy discounting (or conversely raising the price) of songs in the future (Act today, get 100 bonus points, buy points bundles for less than $0.79 each, buy a particular song or album, get a few bonus points.
Allows bundling of arbitrary numbers of “free” points in with a Zune (whereas a cash rebate would cost more). Helps Microsoft out with antitrust regulators, especially if they sell a Zune with $249 retail value of points. Microsoft can argue forever about what a point actually costs them or is worth.
Allows Microsoft to create points based loyalty programs.
Points can be sold for different amounts in different countries, while the store deals in one currency, points.
Points could make WiFi tranasctions for songs easier. You have pre-paid points, wanna turn that 3 day/3 play song into something you own forever? Done.
You can have an auto top up feature hooked to a credit card. When my points run out, just charge me for another 500/1000/2500 etc.
You separate the payment from song purchases. You already have the extra points sitting there, what do you want to spend them on?
Anyway, anybody who really cares about cost is going to pirate songs by going with the $14.95 subscription, downloading all the songs they want, removing the DRM, and cancelling the subscription.
Microsoft is now printing its own Monopoly money! (pun intended)
Cheers,
Tim.
Zanny…um…
Grow up? Good advice. Much appreciated. But your name? Um… dude!? Pot, Kettle. Kettle, Pot.
Points, good luck with that.
Wonder if MS will have the balls to host everyone’s Points accounts on, say, a Vista server.
“JUST FOR GIGGLES, I’M GONNA GO DO THIS W/ IPODS BECAUSE STEVE JOBS SUCKS.
YOU MAC-HEADS SERIOUSLY NEED TO GET A LIFE!
I SEE MORE POSTS FROM APPLE TWITS AFRAID MICROSOFT ARE GOING TO TAKE AWAY ANOTHER MARKET FROM THEM. (BEING THE ONLY ONE THEY’VE SUCCEEDED IN IN THE LAST 20 YEARS, THAT’S UNDERSTANDABLE.)
GROW UP MAC-TWITS. YOU’RE GONNA GET STEEVED AGAIN, BUT BY BILL.”
—
Bill already deployed his golden parachute…..
He saw doomsday coming.
Vista, Zune, Zune Marketplace etc etc will be abominations / failures.
The fact that you typed all in caps tells me you should not be on the internet.
that or you have ALOT of pent up frustration from having to use M$ win(brainwashed)dows.
—
and to ‘points’…. you obviously havnt been to the apple store lately, they are stomping Dell and all other shit box builders into the ground with their lower prices.
—
Will the brainwashed MS douches ever learn? – We hope not.. HAHA!
wow, what a shock… Microsoft is ripping people off. Wait…
“Pros of the point system for Microsoft” (followed by various “advantages”)
But you, see that’s sort of the point.
The point system has plenty of advantages–for Microsoft. Most of the advantages of the point system you describe are for Microsoft. There’s lots of “Microsoft could do this or could do that.” But the reality is that Apple can do much the same thing and they don’t have to use a weird point system.
But my favorite line is “The point system is the same in different countries.” So what? If I live in England, my bank account has pounds and I’m quite comfortable with how much 79p is, even if most Americans have no idea if that’s a lot or a little without running to the currency converter.
But because I can’t shop at the European Store, it doesn’t matter. And before you go and say, “Well, with Microsoft, you can” no you can’t. The reason I, as an American, can’t shop at the European store has to do more with the copyright holders than any difficulties with currency exchanges.
As an aside, Microsoft is going to have a fun time with the points system. One difficulty if they start allowing real goods to be exchanged with points is they’re going to have crawl through the Patriot Act and make sure that people aren’t laundering money using their system.
Wow, the though that you might leave a cent or two sitting in your Microsoft bank account has got some of you really riled.
1. That’s not the “point” and probably not the case. Unless one always buys music in lots of 5, 15, 25 or 50, a lot more than a few cents will be drawing interest in the MS accounts.
2. There is the psychology of pricing. Things are priced in the XX.99 format for a reason; an item costing say 14.99 seems much cheaper than one costing 15.00. The point system goes beyond this. It uses the same psychology, but does so by putting up a smoke screen in the form of a point system. So a song costing 79 points appears to be cheaper than one costing 99 cents, even though it is not. While this a fair enough business practice, it is a slap in the face of consumers interested in making transparent comparisons among competing goods and services.
Been there, done that: Flooz.
Didn’t work then, won’t work now.
PETER
Yeah. I, I, I…Listen, that virus you’re always talking about. The one
that, that could rip off the company for a bunch of money…
MICHAEL
Yeah? What about it?
PETER
Well, how does it work?
MICHAEL
It’s pretty brilliant. What it does is where there’s a bank
transaction, and the interests are computed in the thousands a day in
fractions of a cent, which it usually rounds off. What this does is it
takes those remainders and puts it into your account.
PETER
This sounds familiar.
MICHAEL
Yeah. They did this in Superman III.
Why they cant use the good old trusted and working method of a ‘credit card’ (like EVERY other online store!) is beyond me.
Microsoft now considers itself soooo important that it creates it’s own currency.
Next step: ‘USA uses M$ Points instead of Dollars’.
Shame no one is buying the XBox 360! and looking at the news at the weekend, people are queuing for miles at stores selling the PS3 to snap one up.
In the UK the stores cant give away XBoxes – no one wants em. I think the total UK sales every month is around 5000.
2007 prediction: Xbox is recalled due to low sales figures.
re: “1) Go to [insert big name retailer here].
2) Buy a Zune
3) Open the box (ensuring it can’t be resold as new).
4) Then return it for a refund.
5) Repeat [at different retailer] “
JUST FOR GIGGLES, I’M GONNA GO DO THIS W/ IPODS BECAUSE STEVE JOBS SUCKS.
YOU MAC-HEADS SERIOUSLY NEED TO GET A LIFE!
I SEE MORE POSTS FROM APPLE TWITS AFRAID MICROSOFT ARE GOING TO TAKE AWAY ANOTHER MARKET FROM THEM. (BEING THE ONLY ONE THEY’VE SUCCEEDED IN IN THE LAST 20 YEARS, THAT’S UNDERSTANDABLE.)
GROW UP MAC-TWITS. YOU’RE GONNA GET STEEVED AGAIN, BUT BY BILL.
——–
And what drugs are you currently taking btw???
Zune will be the most disappointing Microsoft product since Vista.
[Enter: “0 days since last accident” sign here]
I wonder if this will finally get people to stay clear of the falling giant.
GotZuned.com
“Apple can do much the same thing and they don’t have to use a weird point system.”
Tell me how Apple will credit your credit card with loyalty “Dollars” that you can use to buy only songs, or easily set up bulk discounts that extend past a single purchase, or bundle the ability to a download a bunch of songs of your choice with the player, or have a prepaid limit on songs for download, without some idea of “credit”.
These all seem to be things that would benefit YOU.
In addition you already benefit because Microsoft charges a quarter of a cent less at 98.75 cents/song. Seems like you might be getting a part of that transaction cost improvement back. A benefit, not much admittedly, but when people are arguing about the interest on 4 bucks left sitting with Microsoft, there’s obviously some pretty tightwadded iPod users out there.
“because I can’t shop at the European Store, it doesn’t matter. “
If there’s enoough money difference in the price, people will find a way.
“While this a fair enough business practice, it is a slap in the face of consumers interested in making transparent comparisons among competing goods and services.”
Does anyone in this forum seem fooled by that? For that matter, when was the last time you saw anything priced at $14.95 and didn’t just round it up to $15 in your mind?
Points,
Apple can send you an email with a code for free song credits, as with their Pepsi and Slurpee promotions. There’s a button that says “Redeem” in iTunes. Have you used iTunes?
Bulk discounts are already available for corporations and they can do just about anything they want with their gift cards. If you have a band, they’ll make you custom cards to give out at your concerts that allow fans to download a few of your tracks specifically.
They already bundled a bunch of songs with the iPod when they first came out, However they realized as Microsoft soon will, people want to choose their songs, the included songs on the Zune are a joke. So yeah, a code for a CDs worth of free songs, they were called iTunes Samplers – did it. Again, have you used iTunes?
Have you heard of iTunes allowances, that’s what I use to have prepaid limits each month. It’s under “Buy Gift” in iTunes. One last time, have you used iTunes?
——
Saving a quarter (25 cents) on every 100 songs is hardly a price break. As for Microsoft, If 1 million people buy $25 worth of points and then buy 25 songs, that leaves Microsoft with $0.31 in the bank per person. Not only did those people not save any money, they spent over $1 per song. And, Microsoft now has $312,500 sitting in the bank. That’s how they plan to recoup the losses on the hardware sales.
Now you’re arguing about the 4 bucks… That’s $4 million that Microsoft is getting for free while we’re making nothing on our money… Microsoft knows what their doing, hopefully your not to dense to see it. It’s like the Office Space scam where they dump fractions of pennies into their own bank account.
… and how fscking long do you think they will keep each and every song at 79 points?
… about (quick, how many days until the day after Xmas?) 33 by my calendar. Then you are going to see some really wierd sh!% .
Because if Clay Aiken decides that his next #1 song should be 83 points, because he’s ‘worth it’ , then you will see all of the other superstars start the same antics. And don’t get me started on the independant labels or start-up labels.
Think this won’t happen? How many business units, sub-department committees, inter-ERP research boards, Poly-AnA managment heads and other illigitemate supervisory toads will have their finger stuck inside the pie that is called zune? yeah, I don’t know either.
But at Apple, there is this guy named Steve. When he says no, that’s it, end of story. Rarely does he go back on his word. When he does it’s 15 years later and always for the benefit of the Consumer.
You no longer just pay 99 cents for a song on the itunes store. You have to pay tax. So if I buy a $25 itunes music card from a Department store I pay about $26.50 including the tax. Now I go home and want to purchase a song for 99 cents that song will cost me $1.05 with tax. That $25 card that use to get me 25 songs now only gets me 23 with 80 cents left over. That 80 cents is left in my itunes account until I fork over more money to buy a new card which starts the process all over again or use my credit card.
So you end up paying more for a song.
“That 80 cents is left in my itunes account until I fork over more money to buy a new card which starts the process all over again”
You also have the ability to buy an additional song, spending another 19¢ (OK, maybe 26 or 27 with the tax). So, compared with the zune left-over-pennies model, you’ve got a song for a quarter. Bonus!
Come on, ‘fess up; you work at the Zune marketing department, don’t you.
In amongst all the “advantages” is one very real disadvantage, which you mention in a throwaway parenthetical phrase: “(or conversely raising the price)”. There it is, Microsoft can keep song prices at 79 points, thus seeming to be stable, and cheaper than iTunes, while ramping up the cost of points. $5 for 400 this year, $6 next year, etc., etc.
So I just read on some other site that people are getting error’s while installing the software and they can’t install it. They bought it early because bestbuy was selling them already. Kind of funny that it already isn’t work for some people.
PalmerDeville.
there-their-they’re. There they are. Their things are great. They’re coming.
MW-things. As in – words mean things. Especially if used properly.
Passport, points, activation, squirt….all really, really puerile ideas. A Microsoft employee must be as welcome in a party as a Jehova’s Witness. Come on, guys, cash in your options and get a real adult job!
Zuned Again!!!
Can any body help this guy install his Zune software? No?!?
{burns}
Excellent.
{/burns}
-c
MW: ‘range’ (the nearest Zune user is: 1,700 miles away)
“choose their songs”
See I’m talking about giving away POINTS to let you choose songs, not giving awy fixed pre-determined SONGS.
“Saving a quarter (25 cents) on every 100 songs is hardly a price break.”
Agree which is why missing out on the interest on 31 cents isn’t a big problem either.
“Microsoft knows what their doing, hopefully your not to dense to see it.”
With their billions in the bank, I doubt the whole points thing is a just a scam to earn a few more dollars interest.
“That’s how they plan to recoup the losses on the hardware sales.”
Sure, they have 312k held in trust per million zunes. Lets say they earn 10% a year on that for a total of $31k they get to keep. I guess they can subsidize every Zune to the tune of 3.1 cents. That’s so much money. You’re so smart, you should get a job providing strategy for a company like Microsoft.
“and how fscking long do you think they will keep each and every song at 79 points?”
And why should they? Charging the same price for every song is a dumb idea. most people understand that old music or music from less popular artists should cost less.
My God! The Zuned Again link is too funny! And way too ironic!!! MDN needs to copy that page and host it here! It’s a riot.
I’ve had to suffer through way too many pimply faced kids trying to figure out how to make change for me to not understand why Microsloft did the point thing. If we can ever find out how many left over points just end up unused we would be shocked. Too many of those kids will put in their credit card number – spend five dollars, buy a couple of songs and do the exact same thing the next time. Never realizing they are actually paying $2.50 per song. And not caring a bit either since it’s dad’s credit card.
Wow-can’t wait to tranfer all my MS Playforsure to the zune. What…I can”t? Well, at least I can share my own tunes, the things I make myself. What…I can’t?!! This will be compatible with Vista or at least better than iTunes-right? You can’t even run the zune software on Vista! The zune will make an alright dedicated hard drive for files won’t it? No!!! If anyone thinks the zune is an answer to iPod conformity they are either profoundly delusional or a MS shill. Between the Nazi style DRM, the WTF points scheme and the general uselessness of the zune soft & hardware, only a dope would buy this offering.
Be clear the zune will fail and spectacularly at that. Presently-on Amazon the most popular zune is ranked lower than 50 in sales. Number one-the iPod. It will not and cannot become anything more than a testament to Microsoft’s incompetence which fortunately out strips their evil propensity towards domination, greed and veneration of “the man.”
I’ll be keeping my “conformist” iPod until something better and cheaper comes along. Hasn’t happened yet, and if it does, it won’t be those chuckleheads at Microsoft.
BTW: Once Microsoft has taken a genuine bath for this blunder they’ll be out of the market in about 18 months. How stupid will those zune owners feel then? Come to think of it, if they were daft enough to buy one of these POS in the first place-they’ll likely still be patting themselves on the back.
So who cares if you have a couple or even 10 or 12 cents left over…. can everyoone even imagine how many times they’ve wasted a dime or even a dollar……..
you people are stupid, itunes does the same thing, i have 6 cents left over on a card that i recieved.
so what if you have some left over. you can use them another time. microsoft do the points cos otherwise they would have to convert all of the prices for things. instead they use points. it makes things easier.
Forget about figuring out how to not let microsoft get your change. if you spend 790$ in points, there is no way your going to use all of the points that month so microsoft is just going to be using the left over money you dont spend to make even more money.
and even if you do spend all 790$ in points, you just gave 790$ to microsoft. lose lose , but whatever, i think the xbox live service is worth microsoft getting rich of my nickles and dimes.
this is where i turn to limewire.
ok all u retards and mac fans (wich fall into the same group ) when u purchace microsoft points all the left overs u keep for another time so eventually it will even out. u guys are just mad that microsoft will always have apple beat money wise get over it u support a crappy computer and company. microsoft knows how to think economicly thus is why they are the leader and will always be the leader mac sucks ipod sucks i mean come on you cant even put an ipod on another computer with out it erasing itself and they have less features than a zune (excluding iphone and touch) do your selfs a favor and buy a zune and a pc you will be better off
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sry to post again another benifit to microsoft points is u can also purchace games from your xbox 360 and game expansion packs yet another way microsoft is more innovative
@ shadow
ok all ur pc luvers hoo dont no how to spell: mac rulz pc drools! ha! put that in yur pipe n smoke it how doze beige boxez taste now fruitcups smackitupflipitrubitdownOOOHHHNOOOOOOOO!!!
snoogans
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@ bluestreak1984
u cant fight the facts retard ipods have less features for the same price as a zune look into it and for microsoft points its just easier to purchace things especially do to conversion rates so ms dont have to make 100 dashboards for every country they can just say it costs 79 points and there u go no converting currency and ms points can easly be used if u use a zune and a 360 together. u mac fans r just too dumb to see it. btw a mac is basically a pc with a crappier OS .
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Microsoft points can be used by anyone, even those without credit cards. Did you know that you cannot pay for iTunes with cash and that the cheapest non-credit means to pay for iTunes is with an iTunes card, whose smallest denomination is $15?
“Say you want an album’s worth, or 10 songs? You give Microsoft $10 for 800 points and buy 10 songs for 790 points. Microsoft has your 10 points or 12.5-cents “left over.””
Damn, I drop more than 12.5 cents on the ground getting out of my car sometimes and I damn well don’t bother picking it up because I’m not a penny pinching Jew. I’m sure Microsoft’s putting my 12.5 cents to better use than I would anyway.
Why are so many heebs using Macs anyway? They’re expensive as hell.
Why Does It cost 800 points To Change Your Gamertag on XBox Live? Why Not Free? Greedy Bastards!
When you are in not good state and have got no cash to go out from that, you will require to receive the mortgage loans. Just because it will help you emphatically. I take short term loan every single year and feel myself OK just because of that.
Anyone here use Xbox Mircosoft points? I know how to get the codes e-mailed to you; no money or personal info needed. Go here to learn how: 360freemicrosoftpoints(dot)wordpress(dot)com
i just want to know how many songs can i get with 400 Microsoft points