“After seeing how well equipped the updated Macbook Pros are I decided to go and compare them to comparable Dell machines. To my pleasant surprise the Macs are substantially cheaper,” Sean Balsiger reports for Newsvine.
“I took a quick look at the Dell store and found the Dell Precision line to be closest to the Macbook Pro line. It is their high-end line of notebooks. I started out with the basic 15.4 inch model and upgraded the Dell to match the standard features [of] the Macbook Pro,” Balsiger reports. “Final Price – Apple: $1,999, Dell: $2,874.”
“This brings us to the comparison of the 17 inch models,” Balsiger reports. “Final Price – Apple: $2,799, Dell: $4,142.”
Balsiger writes, “The myth that Apple computers are more expensive than PCs need to end. They have proven that they are committed to selling well-equipped computers at reasonable prices. Now people just need to take the time to compare the systems and realize that with a Mac they are getting a better computer at a better price with a better operating system, and if they don’t like Mac OS X they are still better off to spend hundreds of dollars less and buy a copy of Windows for their Mac. Is there really a reason to stay on PCs anymore?”
Full article here.
MacDailyNews Take: “Is there really a reason to stay on PCs anymore?” Well, Sean, we never had a reason for PCs at all, but, since you’re asking: No.
What we said would happen (here, for one of many examples, and as early as June 2005 here) is happening already: the PC box assemblers are feeling the heat, it’s Microsoft’s turn next.
And who on earth is not going to like Mac OS X? Even the most severely Windows-dependent seem able to see the quality difference.
Related articles:
Fortune compares Mac vs. Dell: ‘you’ll get more for your money with Apple’ – September 11, 2006
PC box assemblers like Dell and others wish Apple would license Mac OS X – August 31, 2006
$399 for Windows Vista Ultimate?! (Hint: Get a Mac) – August 29, 2006
AP: Time to think different, Apple Mac beats Dell on price, software compatibility, and more – August 23, 2006
Thurrott pits Apple Mac Pro vs. similarly configured Dell, figures out the Mac is less expensive – August 18, 2006
Apple Mac Pro with/ 20” Cinema Display less expensive than Dell Precision 690 sans monitor – August 10, 2006
Bear Stearns: Apple’s new Mac Pro, Xserve pricing well below comparable Dell systems – August 09, 2006
Time Magazine on Apple’s 13-inch MacBook: ‘Dell and HP should be very worried’ – June 07, 2006
Dude, you got a Dell? What are you, stupid? Only Apple Macs run both Mac OS X and Windows! – April 05, 2006
Apple CEO Steve Jobs’ ultimate goal: ‘to take back the computer business from Microsoft’ – June 16, 2005
Just Looking,
“Good to hear words of tolerance.
I have owned Dells in the past, used to recommend them to for people that wanted PCs. I the more recent past, their quality and support has dropped. I no longer recommend Dells.”
——————————-
Sorry to hear that. I agree that their service could be a better; I hope that they’ll make an effort to keep producing reliable hardware so users won’t have to call and experience the support department!
Is the real value in a Dell, or any computer for that matter, the sticker price? Not for me it isn’t.
The real value can be found in things like productivity and total cost of ownership.
PCs are inherently insecure because of Microsoft Windows, so there are compulsory expenses to consider and only a fool would operate a PC without AV software. Besides, straight out of the box, what does Dell offer compared to Macintosh?
Time is another critical factor.
Every PC user I’ve ever met is in denial about how much time they spend getting ready to work as opposed to actually working.
Ask them, what they did with their computer today and much of what follows is a litany of maintenance tasks they’ve accomplished. They’ll brag about how effective they were working on the machine.
It seems they’re always waiting… investigating… performing maintenance… restarting… reformatting… reinstalling… chasing ghosts in the machine! Comparing that with how much time they actually spend being productive, you have to wonder whether they know what it means to use a computer…
… in the meantime tick-tock, tick-tock… Their machines keep them really busy… but, what is that?
I suppose there are two kinds of computer users in the world; those who work on computers and those who use computers to work. There are Tinkers and there are Doers.
Tinkers like to get into pissing contests about specs and price and the size of their package. They’re always making adjustments, fine-tuning their machines to exact every ounce of energy out of their boxes. Tinkers are also in denial about how much money they actually spend on their boxes.
Meanwhile the doers got all their work done, turned off the machine and are out getting laid!
Matt –
The HP may be less expensive but that is a huge difference in speed 2Ghz vs. 2.33Ghz. and it comes with a big difference is chip price. Did you factor in video editing and DVD authoring software? What about the fact that the HP weighs around 2.5 lbs more then the MacBook Pro or that the HP is huge, 57% thicker. No wonder they can fit two HDs in the case. (That’s how you get 240G HDs.) I just don’t see your OS limited HP as a good value. Although I wish that apple offered the HPs proprietary Lightscribe system I have an external Lacie DVD drive that has that technology and its great.
Matt Thompson
Pardon me for sounding frugal, but an extra 330Mhz, slower hard drive with less space, inferior graphics card, non-Lightscribe DVD-RW DL drive, non-built in wireless card, OS X and the Apple name are not worth the extra $650 I would’ve had to pay to purchase one. Numbers don’t lie.
These are dual core chips so isn’t the difference in speed more like 660Mhz?
The Understanding,
No. Dual core is only utilized in multi-threaded based applications or during multi-tasked single threaded programs. However, even when you multi-task, a single thread program will only utilize one core at a time, so no you don’t add the two Ghz ratings together to get more. There aren’t that many multi-threaded apps out there right now, but this should increase (Adobe Premier is one). Even in the case of multi-threading you still don’t add core speed to core speed. Each core is doing different tasks, but they have to be in sync with each other.
They say imitation is the greatest form of flattery. It’s great to see Apple take a page from Dell’s playbook and pass on component cost savings. Obviously they got some great deals on Intel Core 2 Duo processors and hard drives and the result is the customer is the winner here!
One point that hasn’t been discussed here in the great detail is the comparison is between an Apple and a Dell workstation. A “workstation,” by industry standards, must (according to IDC and Gartner):
1) Be specifically designed, configured and marketed to technical markets, including multi-tasking and graphics capabilities.
The Dell Precision mobile workstations feature NVIDIA workstation class graphics solutions that support Open GL applications.
2) Configurations must have been certified to run workstation-specific applications and workloads. Dell certifies approximately 40 different applications and is compatible with many more to meet specific customer needs while Mac OS has limited industry-standard application support and compatibility.
Since Apple is not considered a workstation vendor, the comparison being made is sort of apple to oranges comparison. You might try to find a better comparison from the full range of Dell products.
Funny, to me, a laptop purchase is a longterm investment…at least five years. $500 bucks difference makes absolutely no difference at the beginning of a laptops life. What matters to me is the longterm cost.
It is a serious gamble purchasing any thinkpad, aliensmell, dell no, or HP
laptop that will be connected to the internet, when a macbook or macbook pro can run XP via bootcamp. OSX and iLife can not be matched feature for feature for any price, not to mention Apple’s pro apps. What is peoples time worth, tinkering with all the 3rd party, arm twisting pre-installed apps, viruses, malware, spyware, adware, and a version 7 browser that has just now finally learned to block pop-ups and use tabbed browsing. All on a 3rd party hardware conglomerate laptop. I am running Motion very well on a 13″ Macbook, so don’t give dumb excuses about graphics cards as a reason for a laptop purchase.
Or look at the Inspiron line.
Basic 15″ Macbook Pro $1995
Dell equivalent $1388
Basic 17″ Macbook Pro $2799
Dell equivalent $1661 (2.16GHz vs 2.33GHz, probably an acceptable tradeoff for $1138 in savings)
Basic Macbook $1099
Dell equivalent $804
(Although “equivalent” is a bad word since the Dell includes a 14″ screen and Core 2 Duo processor) With the 1.66GHz core duo take off another $135 for a $669 price tag. it’s hard to configure Dells down to the anemic Macbook specs these days.
Sure you can find one or two Dell configurations which cost more than an equivalent Mac but across the range equivalent Dells are still significantly cheaper than equivalent Macs.
Bloo –
The practice might be fun, but do you really want to be sowing your seeds in that gene pool?
Matt –
The laptop equation places a premium on size and weight. A thinner, lighter solution with equivalent performance is more difficult to engineer and almost always costs more. It would be nice if you could compare your favored HP to a less expensive 17″ MBP 2.16 bundled with an external FW800 HD. That way you could have considerably more total space than with the HP, but with the option of going fast and light (well, relatively anyway) when you don’t need all of it and the option to try out some Mac-only stuff in addition to what you already use. Seems like it would be a more compelling comparison for your particular needs.
I like even lighter solutions so I would probably go with the 2.16 15″ with an additional 20″ monitor at the office.
“option of going fast and light (well, relatively anyway)”
Sure it’s relative, Light and Fast in a PC means a core duo weighing 2.7 pounds or a core 2 duo at 2GHz weighing 3.1 pounds.
That’s almost half the weight of the Apple notebooks with that sort of processing power.
So what are the full specs on those, and how much do they cost?
integrated graphics? 10-12″ screen? $2000?
Pull your head out of the sand. Find a FULL featured laptop, 1″ thick, performance comparable to 17″MBP. At ANY price.
OMG!
Apple MacBook Pro 17″ with 2GB and 160 GB + APP is 1600€ cheaper than the Dell Precision M90 with same configuration.
WOW! Apple has desided to kick seriously Dell out of business!
Good work!
Note to Matt Thompson: From the MacBook Pro Page on Apple.com:
AirPort Express
MacBook Pro offers built-in wireless capability, and you can create your own wireless network with an AirPort Express.
You can look it up yourself — http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/
And you didn’t include the required anti-virus/anti-spyware software, nor the cost of lost productivity hours from updating said software or the eventual Blue Screens of Death…
Dull –
The lightweight machines that you are referring to do not match the functionality and screen size/resolution that Matt specified. They also don’t come close to matching the functionality of the MacBooks and MacBook Pros that you compare them to. Find me a thinner, lighter, less expensive machine that matches or betters the basic hardware specs that Apple offers (to say nothing of the ability to run OS X) and I will stand corrected.
Apple doesn’t offer a machine for every segment, but they compare very favorably within their chosen segments.
“So what are the full specs on those, and how much do they cost?
integrated graphics? 10-12″ screen? $2000? “
Sounds about right, these are Full Featured laptops, and the point is that you can’t get down to that weight from Apple at ANY cost.
And trust me there’s a big difference in carrying 2.7 pounds endlessly thru an
airport compared to 5.6 or 6.8 pounds.
And while you’re at it, find me an Apple notebook which matches it’s 0.8″ thickness.
Have you tried to use a 17″ screen on an plane even in first class? As a primary travel notebook You don’t WANT the big screen, even if you could be bothered carrying a 6.8 pound Macbrick Pro.
“The lightweight machines that you are referring to do not match the functionality and screen size/resolution that Matt specified. “
“They also don’t come close to matching the functionality of the MacBooks and MacBook Pros that you compare them to. “
There’s only three real differences.
1) screen size, which may or may not matter to you. Also if you don’t use the machine just for travel you can run any size LCD. As noted above the big screens don’t work very well for a travel notebook.
2) No built in DVD burner, which frankly may or may not matter to you. If you want it, carry one externally and you’re still lighter than the Mac. Personally in a travel notebook I never need one. a 4GB memory stick suffices for that occasional time you might want to move large amounts of data or install some software using removable media.
3) Intel integrated graphics rather than faster graphics, which again may or may not be important to you.
But MBP owners shouldn’t really be crowing too much about graphics performance compared to the top PC offerings.
Finally the ability to run OS X may or may not be important to you.
But the real issue is that for many people on the road 1) 2) and 3) are just not features they want or need and a 2GHz dual core notebook with Intel integrated graphics gets the job done just fine.
The big important spec is solid high end performance with small size and weight, and Apple simply has no answer to those machines.
Fact is with the PC you have choices, Half the weight of a Macbook and every bit as fast? Sure. Monsterous 20″ screen laptop, sure. Cheap bargain basement laptop? Sure. High end certiifed CAD workstation notebook? Sure.
Apple plays in none of these areas. All it does is a few middle of the road laptops at a premium price compared to other vendor’s middle of the road laptops.
So why buy a Mac?
1) you want to run OS X
2) you prefer Apple’s industrial design
3) you don’t mind paying a price premium for either of the above features.
4) you don’t want a large screen laptop, a compact laptop, a lightweight laptop, a cheap laptop, a laptop with high end graphics, one with Blu-Ray etc etc etc etc etc…
If 1) or 2) are important to you and you don’t mind accepting the compromises you get with the Apple hardware, Fine. Just don’t pretend that what you’re getting comes at Dell level pricing.
Justme2
Come now. You’ve never had a Mac freeze on you? Must not use them very often. As I said, I use Macs on a regular basis and I can assure you they require goofy restarts and they DO freeze up. They just don’t tell you why. Who hasn’t heard of the pinwheel/beachball of death? I am quite familiar with this.
As far as antiviurs and firewall. There are free and excellent programs, AVG and Avast to name two. And convincing yourself you will always be safe because you run a Mac is a serious flaw in your thinking. As the platform becomes more popular, it will be attacked. Come down off the ivory tower bro.
Justme2,
Please, PLEASE read the entire thread. I already corrected myself on the wireless issue, I won’t do it again.
Wow, what an ambarrassing article. The Dell workstation comes with workstation graphics that blows the MBP away. Why not compare laptops with the same specs?
I just configured a Dell Inspiron with a 2.16Ghz Core 2 Duo, a 120GB hard drive, 1GB RAM, 256MB x1400 graphics (similar to 128MB x1600), 802.11b/g, bluetooth 2.0, larger battery option, 8X dual-layer DVD burner, $1798.
It doesn’t come with FireWire 800, but it’s the same form-factor as the Precision that the stupid article refers to.
Dells are a bit cheaper, but the MacBook Pro is a better buy – it has a backlit keyboard, it’s beautiful, thin and light, it’s got a slot-loaded optical drive, it runs Mac OS X. The article doesn’t have to be misleading like it is to make the MacBook Pro look good, it stands on its own just fine. Sheesh.
” – it has a backlit keyboard, it’s beautiful, thin and light, it’s got a slot-loaded optical drive, it runs Mac OS X. “
And you’re obviously ready to pay another $1000 for these features, which is fine, but your “Better Buy” may not be the same as sombody else’s.
Someone else, with a different set of prioritys may use logic like “The Dell’s a thousand bucks cheaper, I don’t really intend to tote a 17” notebook worth me often so the fact that the Dell’s about a pound heavier and a bit thicker doesnt matter so much. I can get it with a graphics accelerator that’s almost three times faster than the one in the top end Mac, and a higher resolution LCD than Apple offers and since I do a lot of graphics intensive work, or play games that’s important, so while the Mac’s prettier, I’ll take the machine that’s overall much faster and better for my application and use the change to buy a bunch of other stuff.
jebus dudes… flames are going around here like napalm…
if you really don’t want a Mac, fine, stick with your PC. At least use a Mac for half an hour to get some facts straight.
Us Mac users will just have to miss out on the dozens of drivers you have to instal, and the defragging of HDDs, and the constant thread of viruses bringing our systems to our knees :p
To Matt Thompson:
“Difference of $649.97
Pardon me for sounding frugal, but an extra 330Mhz, slower hard drive with less space, inferior graphics card, non-Lightscribe DVD-RW DL drive, non-built in wireless card, OS X and the Apple name are not worth the extra $650 I would’ve had to pay to purchase one. Numbers don’t lie.”
What are you smoking dude?
” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”grin” style=”border:0;” /> . I’ve driven, power used, built and re-built PCs for 16 years (as in I needed to in order to keep up with my primary work as a network systems architect completing specs, proposals, software etc.). As soon as OS X matured [10.X] (and I had watched it come along for several years), I jumped (2 years ago) to a G4 PB running Virtual PC (for my PC stuff).
Man! I got my Life back (no joke!) – as in weekends in the sun (not doing Windows rebuilds or getting a speakerphone because I was so tired of resting the phone on my shoulders for 3 hours wading through Dell’s telephone “support”. Most everything was so, just, it worked out of the box, and when I needed to do something new it seemed Apple had thought about it in pre-design. I didn’t turn off my machine for 6 months and basically for the first time in my life forgot I was using a PC and began using a set of tools.
Too cool to sum up in words, save to say (and it depends, for you, on how much YOU get paid for your time, or how much you VALUE your Life time) that that “Difference of $649.97” you talked about, I got back each and EVERY weekend I’ve owned a Mac. And then some.
If the difference had been a $1000.00 it would still have been a no-brainer – the sheer peace of mind I’ve had from the absence of virus problems, blue screens, weird Windows registry problems (I’m now (reluctantly) a Windows registry expert and like, who needed that?!), and just the plain ease of use and quality of build has made that hypothetical $1,000 difference not even zero – it’s a negative number.
Don’t just run the numbers, look at the impact of the system in and on your life (especially now the Mac is an Intel twofer!). ANd remember, one of the Mac intangibles – aside from adding up the cost of pieces – is how EVERYTHING hard and soft works together because it was designed to. Everything. It means I’ve had zip integration, driver, information transfer, etc. issues. Time off the clock, money in the pocket, and Life in the heart-body-mind.
And all this coming from someone who’s true love in life was and in some ways remains a loaded IBM ThinkPad and IBM’s incredible (then) online service for PCs. But even that wasn’t good enough to neutralize the process, business, and Life cost of using Windows – ‘2000’ and ‘XP’ was as far as I went, and XP was sheer necessity – and as for Vista? Well, there’s the coming Leopard (10.5) which I believe is going to go ballistic (!), and then there’s Vista, which I believe (from all I’ve read) is going to be a high-pressure, daily surveillance from Microsoft, costs too much of Life, experience.
Cheers.