“After seeing how well equipped the updated Macbook Pros are I decided to go and compare them to comparable Dell machines. To my pleasant surprise the Macs are substantially cheaper,” Sean Balsiger reports for Newsvine.
“I took a quick look at the Dell store and found the Dell Precision line to be closest to the Macbook Pro line. It is their high-end line of notebooks. I started out with the basic 15.4 inch model and upgraded the Dell to match the standard features [of] the Macbook Pro,” Balsiger reports. “Final Price – Apple: $1,999, Dell: $2,874.”
“This brings us to the comparison of the 17 inch models,” Balsiger reports. “Final Price – Apple: $2,799, Dell: $4,142.”
Balsiger writes, “The myth that Apple computers are more expensive than PCs need to end. They have proven that they are committed to selling well-equipped computers at reasonable prices. Now people just need to take the time to compare the systems and realize that with a Mac they are getting a better computer at a better price with a better operating system, and if they don’t like Mac OS X they are still better off to spend hundreds of dollars less and buy a copy of Windows for their Mac. Is there really a reason to stay on PCs anymore?”
Full article here.
MacDailyNews Take: “Is there really a reason to stay on PCs anymore?” Well, Sean, we never had a reason for PCs at all, but, since you’re asking: No.
What we said would happen (here, for one of many examples, and as early as June 2005 here) is happening already: the PC box assemblers are feeling the heat, it’s Microsoft’s turn next.
And who on earth is not going to like Mac OS X? Even the most severely Windows-dependent seem able to see the quality difference.
Related articles:
Fortune compares Mac vs. Dell: ‘you’ll get more for your money with Apple’ – September 11, 2006
PC box assemblers like Dell and others wish Apple would license Mac OS X – August 31, 2006
$399 for Windows Vista Ultimate?! (Hint: Get a Mac) – August 29, 2006
AP: Time to think different, Apple Mac beats Dell on price, software compatibility, and more – August 23, 2006
Thurrott pits Apple Mac Pro vs. similarly configured Dell, figures out the Mac is less expensive – August 18, 2006
Apple Mac Pro with/ 20” Cinema Display less expensive than Dell Precision 690 sans monitor – August 10, 2006
Bear Stearns: Apple’s new Mac Pro, Xserve pricing well below comparable Dell systems – August 09, 2006
Time Magazine on Apple’s 13-inch MacBook: ‘Dell and HP should be very worried’ – June 07, 2006
Dude, you got a Dell? What are you, stupid? Only Apple Macs run both Mac OS X and Windows! – April 05, 2006
Apple CEO Steve Jobs’ ultimate goal: ‘to take back the computer business from Microsoft’ – June 16, 2005
5 years ago I bought my kids a cheap Dell because there were no comparable deals available from Apple. I’ll never make that mistake again.
I wonder if Dell is stuck in the “loss leader” quandry: they have to support their super-cheap-end business (those lovely $299 machines you can never seem to actually buy for that price) by jacking the prices of their high-end machines? If so that would explain why they end up charging so much more for an equivalent machine at the high end.
Either that or–gasp–Apple is actually better at manufacturing efficicencies than Dell!
Well he messed up of the video card comparison but he got the rest of it right.
Now the question is do I need this first class piece of machinery.
mw- party…!
I think John is bang in the money. Dell are supporting loss-making garbage with the price of their high end machines. Jobs said long ago that Apple’s manufacturing efficiency was already greater than Dell’s (Fortune article, Feb 2005) and now he’s starting to turn the screw. Dell have nowhere to go.
This is all one of the most extraordinary pieces of business strategy that we’ve ever witnessed. It’s chess. It’s WWII. It’s like a masterplan was laid down in about 2000 and slowly but insuperably it’s all coming to pass….
I assume Microsoft is the eventual target (“they just have no taste. And I don’t mean that in a small way…”). That battle could be a bit more bloody…
Dells are ‘cheaper’ than Macs. Macs are ‘less expensive’ than Dells.
Let’s get it right MDN.
Apple’s strategy might well confine Dell to a bottom feeding box assembler. But who knows? Dell might succeed in that market. After all, as P. T. Barnum said, there’s a sucker born every minute.
This is great and all, and I love to see Apple beat others on price in the high-end area… but:
-Where is Apple’s competition to the 15’4″ Inspirons, etc. They need a 15.4″ MacBook (not pro) with a comparable feature-set.
I’m currently in the market for a 15.4″ notebook and I look at MBPro for $2000 and then I look at Dell Inspiron 15.4 (specced out to the top) and there’s still about a $500 difference. I know I get OS X, better hardware, etc., but I just can’t justify spending $500 more on something I can get for less.
What I would like is a MacBook 15″ wide-screen with a stand-alone GPU (for some Windows games) and an expresscard slot. But Apple won’t seem to do this b/c they have the MacBook Pro for that. So then they need to put in more features on the Pro models like include more RAM standard (more than 1GB?) and make more GPU memory standard.
But I’ll still be waiting out till January to see what we can get.
Al
My sister can’t see the difference. She hates the Mac, loves the Windows platform. I gave her daughter a iMac with Panther installed. My niece loves it, but her mother can’t stand it. (I think my sister has to much education of the wrong kind
” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”tongue wink” style=”border:0;” /> )
A friend just bought a new HP notebook to replace his 3 year old HP notebook that crashed on him. He was all excited about some of the features like the DVD drive that can print on the DVD (until he priced the cost of those) as well as a remote control that fits in the express slot. I tried to talk him into a Mac and he was close but the HP was like $800.
Granted, HP probably made only $15 bucks on this machine but I’d like to see Apple find a way to get into the lower end without sacraficing profitability. The iPod shuffle was able to compete on the low end but that was by removing features and shrinking form factor — that won’t work in the notebook world. I just don’t know anyone that would actually spend $4,100 for a Dell notebook.
so now Apple is being a cheap product huh?
it’s no longer classy and luxurious.. just cheapo trying to get market share?
I did a comparison yesterday of the MBP, an Alienware and WidowPC. All 17″, all very comparable.
The Alienware came in at $300 over and the WidowPC came in over a G.
If you install XP with Bootcamp the MBP still comes in under the Alienware. IF you install Vista WHEN it comes out with the Ultimate package, the MBP is only a hundred over.
So how do I convince my die hard “We will never use fruit” windows thumping fiance and her entire family that macs are better without sounding like I’m preaching and shoving it down their throats?
Simple. Refuse to do system maintainence.
” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”smile” style=”border:0;” /> Say that keeping up with Windows vulnerabilities is too much work.
Oh, I forgot something. To make comparable machines the Alienware and WidowPC were maxed or nearly maxed on their features available. The MBP had more upgrade options when it came to RAM and HD and etc…
MacSweep…When Leopard comes out…install it in your sister’s daughter’s machine. Show her Time Machine and Spotlight. That ought to be enough. If not…she’s too far gone.
iSteve…. The problem with lower price points is that they are unsustainable if you want to produce a truly high quality product. You can get a REFURBISHED macbook for an astonishingly low price. Great machines. Look it up.
utzaki…. No. Not a cheap product. They have a greater manufacturing efficiency and have consequently been able to offer their higher quality products at a lower price. They are NOT the lowest of the low.
They make a better product, have a better operating system, have more and better bundled software, have better customer support, have a better forward looking development path and a commitment to quality and taste that no other computer company has. Game over.
Blooregaurd,
Just wait until there PC’s start having some problems, and quietly inform them that the Mac does not have this problem. Then periodically show them some of the cool stuff OS X can do like Expose, or Dashboard. Over time they will get the hint. I also like to use the argument that no one wants to buy a appliance (refrigerator, stove, etc.) that crashes, or in any way does not work as advertised, so why would they use a computer that did not work the way it is advertised.
Cheers
Magic Word: Help
As in, it is your job to help them see the light.
It is interesting that Jobs is using Dell’s own business model against them. Dell backed itself into a corner that it can’t offer the high end cheaper because it has to make up for the loss leader that is the cheap PC. Leave it to Apple to turn a company’s asset into a liability. It is truly business genius.
sorry, its their, not there.
MDN needs an edit button.
Cheap is Cheap—Less expensive is Less expensive.
Words mean things.
MW–english, don’t you just love it? SB capitalised.
Miyaco…
I’m constantly doing that with my fiance, since I live with her and get to see her Dell constantly crashing everytime she runs IE… In fact, I have had my G5 up for 25.75 days and everytime I hear her restart i tell her that on the side… All that happens is that she gets mad at me. Her fathers’ computer is constantly having issues like freezing, overheating, losing files, and all of the other banes of windows like not being able to create a file sharing network easily… So I bring over my G5 and clamshell iBook (with 10.4.8 installed on both) and set one up in ten seconds. They still won’t ever touch it. Even after they KNOW that it’s better, they swear they will never use a Mac… I’m running out of ideas here…
Blooregard325i, i have found that a supportive and understanding tone has done more to convince friends to try the mac than any hard sellling. after they try, that support goes a long way to keep them on the platform. it’s all about the experience. when friends tell me about their os problems, i don’t berate them or ask about the symptoms or details of the problem. instead i try my best to be compassionate and ask important questions– such as, “wow dude that sucks, did you lose anything important?”
i think it is more effective to talk about the things we share as opposed to our differences. when someone see anything i’ve done- dvds, movies, pages material- the quality and polish of the finished product is usually enough to pique their interest. i casually mention the application i used and when they try to find it later, it’s invetible that they will discover it only exists on the mac.
i have learned over the years that the worst way to convince anyone of anything is by telling them they made a bad choice. i don’t make people wrong. i don’t tell people i am the answer. i am just a finger pointing to another option.
and yes, i totally refuse to do any maintenance on a pc, “i’m just not that smart.”
I like my Alienware, my chosen hardware inside puts me in between the Macbook and Macbook Pro, but cost me less then the Macbook baseline. Core 2 Duo, DVD burning (Superdrive for you mac heads) and ATI X1400 128MB Video, and a 15.4″ 1280×800 Widescreen all for $1083 shipped.
The speed is nice, battery is good, and gaming is awesome. Would I like a Macbook Pro? Nah, hate the aluminum and the price is just way more then I would ever pay for a laptop I would want to replace in a year. Still though, nice upgrades apple!
Beryllium wrote…
After all, as P. T. Barium said, there’s a sucker born every minute
TRUE …but a growing number of those suckers are getting smarter – fast!
And there not going to stand for Dell’s crap much longer!
Not when theirs a twofer out there that half the price!
I think these examples are a little far fetched. Dell’s retail MSRP’s are always inflated, and rarely what customer’s actually pay at checkout. Dell heavily relies on a never-ending stream of big coupon discounts to give customers the impression of getting a bargain. Dell’s final discounted prices are closer to the actual MSRP’s of Apple products.
There are a lot of people who will pay over a grand for a PC. I talked to a guy at work last week. He has a G4 PB that his college gave him. He’s got to give it back but he hated it anyway.
He bought a cheap PC and is happy with it. Wants to get a laptop too. I told him about the intel macs and his choice to run windows if he wants. He still thinks they are too expensive, but maybe I got him thinking.
However price is an issue for many people. The question is should Apple go for that segment. Dell have been successful in taking that market, but since then have reduced profitability and facing stiff competition with HP.
Apple entered the MP3 player market with a high priced unit. Once it took off, they introduced cheaper models including the shuffle. Now high volume makes them unbeatable in price and features.
I think that is how Apple will go with the PC market. Once they get higher volume sales of MacBooks etc they will be able to drop prices simply because the component parts will cost less.
They will add features that no other PC maker has (already do, but the differences will be greater). Lower prices and improved features will aid Macs intaking market share, but without the need to provide cheaper, at cost PCs, in the clearly now futile attempt to gain market share.
Better that Apple have 10 % market share (6% in US now) with 30 % profit margin, than 20 % share with 10-15 % margin.
To Blooregard: I agree with eggbert. I have been compassionate and supportive and then claiming that after so many years with the Mac I totally lost the touch at repairing thing as the Mac never plays tricks on me, thence I truly cannot come and fix your Windows because I lost the touch, sorry. En passant, I always add ” amazing the time that I was spending on my own PC just to keep it in a working state. Hours and hours. I do other things with that recovered time now with the Mac. I realize how much it was frustrating at the time so I really can understand you but I cannot put myself through that ordeal again. It is in the past and I am glad. I am truly sorry about your issues: I know it is a real pain. I know”
Ahhh, fantastic feeling.
Alienapple.
I guess you really can’t put a price on good taste, then.
“So how do I convince my die hard “We will never use fruit” windows thumping fiance and her entire family that macs are better without sounding like I’m preaching and shoving it down their throats?”
Just follow Apple’s strategy–
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embrace (your fiance),
and extiguish (your inlaws)
It worked for me.
Really, though, when I was newly married my wife was wary of the Mac, but as she continued to use it she saw the light. Now there’s no way she would want a Winblows box. So don’t get into arguments, just keep using your Mac and let her use it every chance you can.
Blooregard325i
Tell them they are all a bunch of stupid idiots and you are thinking twice about associating with them.
Just kidding….
I would merely laugh at theior machines and say…You want me to fix that??? Bwaaahhaaahhaaaa Then go back to playing with your Mac.
This is what I do with my PC-loving brothers who still tolerate me to this day.
Macsweep,
Can I be your nephew?
Duper: I have 4 Macs in the house as well. The Alienware was for power and video games. Cheers and grow up a little.
Wow, Apple beats Dell, that’s assuming Dell makes the best laptop available, which is not the case. It’s kind of like saying a baseball team has beaten the Cubs. Who cares?
For my part, I was in the market for a laptop that would allow me to do mobile production (After Effects, Audition, CS2 Premium, Premier or Final Cut, and Pro Tools). Since Apple has FINALLY decided to add the Core 2 Duo to the MacBook Pro, I’ll compare the price of that model customized so that it resembles as closely as what HP offers and then compare them.
For the Macbook Pro:
Core 2 Duo @ 2.33Ghz
2GB 667 DDR2 SDRAM – 2x1GB
200GB SATA Drive @ 4200 RPM
8x double-layer SuperDrive
17 Apple Glossy Widescreen Display (1680×1050)
iSight camera
ATI Mobility Radeon x1600 w/256MB SDRAM
OS X
Airport Extreme Card (additional $44)
Apple’s price after academic discount: $2,689 + $44 = $2,733 TOTAL
For the HP dv9000t:
Core 2 Duo @ 2Ghz
2GB 667 DDR2 SDRAM – 2x1GB
240 GB 5400 RPM SATA Dual Hard Drive (120 GB x 2)
8X LightScribe DVD+/-RW w/Double Layer
17 inch glossy widescreen (1680×1050)
HP IMPRINT Finish + Microphone + Webcam
512MB NVIDIA(R) GeForce(R) Go 7600
Intel(R) PRO/Wireless 3945ABG Network w/Bluetooth
High Capacity 8 Cell Lithium Ion Battery
System Recovery DVD w/Windows XP Professional
HP’s price after academic discount: $2,083.03 TOTAL
Difference of $649.97
Pardon me for sounding frugal, but an extra 330Mhz, slower hard drive with less space, inferior graphics card, non-Lightscribe DVD-RW DL drive, non-built in wireless card, OS X and the Apple name are not worth the extra $650 I would’ve had to pay to purchase one. Numbers don’t lie.
2.16GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
1440 x 900 pixels
1GB memory
120GB hard drive1
6x double-layer SuperDrive
ATI Mobility Radeon X1600 graphics with 128MB SDRAM
Ships: 2-4 business days
Free Shipping
$1,999.00
Why not compare it to the lattitude class of laptops? You can build one for almost exactly the same price as the apple’s.
–It appears that the Dell Precision (M90) with 15.4″ screen weighs 8.6 lbs, while the Mac Pro only weighs 5.6 lbs!!! This for a laptop built especially “for the road”! Interesting that the Dell’s weight is nowhere to be found on the Dell web pages, even in the unit’s tech specs section. The only place to find it is by downloading a pdf of the unit’s brochure, then scouring the very tiny print on the back page.
–The comparable Dell Inspiron (6400), their low-end build, is indeed about $500 less expensive for similar hardware (incl. virus protection). It is about 6.2 lbs., about half-pound more than the Mac. Given the lower-quality build, I doubt such a Dell will last as long as the Mac Pro.
–On the other hand, the Dell Lattitude (D820), their business-class standard build, is still about $400 less expensive for similar hardware and virus protection. I think it’s about 6 lbs, slightly heavier.
So, only by selecting the highest-end Dell build, with a strangely heavy design, is the Mac Pro less expensive.
Sorry, Apple.
Matt, why would you include an Airport card to your Mac Book Pro configuration?
Of course, I meant the MacBook Pro. (And I was including 3-year extended warranty/service.)
To be realy fair, the article’s comparison would have to mention this:
Apple: AppleCare Protection Plan for MacBook Pro/PowerBook (w/or w/o Display) – Auto-enroll [Add $349]
Dell: 3 Year Business Standard Plan [Included in Price]
Let’s check information before publishing? Thanks.
Because no where on Apple’s site did I find that the MacBook Pro still includes wireless. Documentation for the iMac is careful to point this out, however it is lacking on the MacBook Pro. That being the case, one has to assume it does not have wireless connectivity built in anymore. Even if it does, there is still a $606 dollar difference in cost.
When one uses near slave labor to assemble computer systems they are less expensive. Paying Chinese people next to nothing makes for a less expensive computer. Simple as that…
Jobs is outsourcing jobs to China, building less expensive computers with the exact same Intel processors and chipsets, memory, and LCD displays that all other computer manufacturers are using in their systems. The only way to beat Dell on price is to use less expensive labor, since the parts cost about the same at these volumes.
So, when you get your new MacBook Pro and power it up for the first time, remember the American worker that’s out of a job now.
Not that Dell or HP or Gateway will not eventually take the same route (or have done so already). But just remember, computers used to be built in America with American labor. Now the chips are manufactured in Asia. The motherboards are in manufactured in Asia. And now the final assembly is done in Asia. Software development and hardware engineering is being outsourced to Asia. All that’s left in America is marketing and sales.
So, instead of cheaper or less expensive, how about “sold America down the river to lower cost?”
I stand corrected, it does come with built in wireless which leaves the cost difference at $605.97. I think I made my point though.
Do a 2.33 GHz MBP against a Lenovo Thinkpad T60; Keep MBP’s specs, and upgrade the T60 until they have identical specs (except MBP has slightly larger screen)
Macbook pro $2499
Lenovo $2284
Sorry, folks. Apples may be less expensive than Dells, but they are still more costly than Thinkpads.
Dells suck anyway
“Wow, Apple beats Dell, that’s assuming Dell makes the best laptop available, which is not the case. It’s kind of like saying a baseball team has beaten the Cubs. Who cares?”
OUCH. That hurts.
Matt, from the tech specs on the MacBook Pro <from the tech specs on the MacBook Pro>:
Communications
Built-in 54-Mbps AirPort Extreme wireless networking (802.11g standard)(2)
Built-in Bluetooth 2.0+EDR (Enhanced Data Rate)
Built-in 10/100/1000BASE-T Gigabit Ethernet (RJ-45 connector)
I would invest 600 more to have virus free and non-slowing system with excellent programs, posibility to use unix, windows, linus with mac os x. Its not hardware after all, but software and overall usage.
Ok, I configured a Lenovo as Troll suggested.
The Z61e seems closer with the wide screen, than the T60 he used. (why not look at a MacBook if you want a smaller screen?)
After adding 2GB of RAM, Windows XP Pro,and A 120 GB drive. I got a price of $2505. Very close to Apple’s $2499 price. Close enough to call it a wash. Of course, Lenovo doesn’t offer free shipping.
When comparing, please use models that are close. Don’t look at the cheapest thing (with different processors).
Just Looking,
Of course, the critical shortcoming of the Lenovo machine you mentioned, is that the Lenovo is not securable, unless you eliminate Windows and use Linux or BSD instead.
-jcr
I see lots of Dell bashing here. That’s OK as long as you’ve either owned one and have had problems or know people that have had real problems with them. Before you post a negative response, you should know that I love Macs, promote them constantly, and plan to buy more. For folks that must by PCs, I always recommend Dell first. They’ve always been very reliable compared with other PC brands in my experience and from others that I spoken with.
RW,
Good to hear words of tolerance.
I have owned Dells in the past, used to recommend them to for people that wanted PCs. I the more recent past, their quality and support has dropped. I no longer recommend Dells.
Having bought many computers…both Mac and PC. I would rate Dell last and HP second last out of experience. I have had bettewr luck with the Toshiba laptopns which I use as workhorses in the labs (running various machines). I have a bunch of Mac laptops in my office. SInce they do not breakdown, I generally give them away to other colleagues or, if old enough, send them to Crown disposal. Only one Mac laptop ever broke (15 inch TiBook) but that is what happens when you fall on top of it!
You can buy cheap crap but my impression that if it is a PC, you are more probably renting it. After 4 years, you can give the Mac laptop away or sell it. After 4 years, you have to bury the PC.
Just Looking,
“Good to hear words of tolerance.
I have owned Dells in the past, used to recommend them to for people that wanted PCs. I the more recent past, their quality and support has dropped. I no longer recommend Dells.”
——————————-
Sorry to hear that. I agree that their service could be a better; I hope that they’ll make an effort to keep producing reliable hardware so users won’t have to call and experience the support department!
Is the real value in a Dell, or any computer for that matter, the sticker price? Not for me it isn’t.
The real value can be found in things like productivity and total cost of ownership.
PCs are inherently insecure because of Microsoft Windows, so there are compulsory expenses to consider and only a fool would operate a PC without AV software. Besides, straight out of the box, what does Dell offer compared to Macintosh?
Time is another critical factor.
Every PC user I’ve ever met is in denial about how much time they spend getting ready to work as opposed to actually working.
Ask them, what they did with their computer today and much of what follows is a litany of maintenance tasks they’ve accomplished. They’ll brag about how effective they were working on the machine.
It seems they’re always waiting… investigating… performing maintenance… restarting… reformatting… reinstalling… chasing ghosts in the machine! Comparing that with how much time they actually spend being productive, you have to wonder whether they know what it means to use a computer…
… in the meantime tick-tock, tick-tock… Their machines keep them really busy… but, what is that?
I suppose there are two kinds of computer users in the world; those who work on computers and those who use computers to work. There are Tinkers and there are Doers.
Tinkers like to get into pissing contests about specs and price and the size of their package. They’re always making adjustments, fine-tuning their machines to exact every ounce of energy out of their boxes. Tinkers are also in denial about how much money they actually spend on their boxes.
Meanwhile the doers got all their work done, turned off the machine and are out getting laid!
Matt –
The HP may be less expensive but that is a huge difference in speed 2Ghz vs. 2.33Ghz. and it comes with a big difference is chip price. Did you factor in video editing and DVD authoring software? What about the fact that the HP weighs around 2.5 lbs more then the MacBook Pro or that the HP is huge, 57% thicker. No wonder they can fit two HDs in the case. (That’s how you get 240G HDs.) I just don’t see your OS limited HP as a good value. Although I wish that apple offered the HPs proprietary Lightscribe system I have an external Lacie DVD drive that has that technology and its great.
Matt Thompson
Pardon me for sounding frugal, but an extra 330Mhz, slower hard drive with less space, inferior graphics card, non-Lightscribe DVD-RW DL drive, non-built in wireless card, OS X and the Apple name are not worth the extra $650 I would’ve had to pay to purchase one. Numbers don’t lie.
These are dual core chips so isn’t the difference in speed more like 660Mhz?
The Understanding,
No. Dual core is only utilized in multi-threaded based applications or during multi-tasked single threaded programs. However, even when you multi-task, a single thread program will only utilize one core at a time, so no you don’t add the two Ghz ratings together to get more. There aren’t that many multi-threaded apps out there right now, but this should increase (Adobe Premier is one). Even in the case of multi-threading you still don’t add core speed to core speed. Each core is doing different tasks, but they have to be in sync with each other.
They say imitation is the greatest form of flattery. It’s great to see Apple take a page from Dell’s playbook and pass on component cost savings. Obviously they got some great deals on Intel Core 2 Duo processors and hard drives and the result is the customer is the winner here!
One point that hasn’t been discussed here in the great detail is the comparison is between an Apple and a Dell workstation. A “workstation,” by industry standards, must (according to IDC and Gartner):
1) Be specifically designed, configured and marketed to technical markets, including multi-tasking and graphics capabilities.
The Dell Precision mobile workstations feature NVIDIA workstation class graphics solutions that support Open GL applications.
2) Configurations must have been certified to run workstation-specific applications and workloads. Dell certifies approximately 40 different applications and is compatible with many more to meet specific customer needs while Mac OS has limited industry-standard application support and compatibility.
Since Apple is not considered a workstation vendor, the comparison being made is sort of apple to oranges comparison. You might try to find a better comparison from the full range of Dell products.
Funny, to me, a laptop purchase is a longterm investment…at least five years. $500 bucks difference makes absolutely no difference at the beginning of a laptops life. What matters to me is the longterm cost.
It is a serious gamble purchasing any thinkpad, aliensmell, dell no, or HP
laptop that will be connected to the internet, when a macbook or macbook pro can run XP via bootcamp. OSX and iLife can not be matched feature for feature for any price, not to mention Apple’s pro apps. What is peoples time worth, tinkering with all the 3rd party, arm twisting pre-installed apps, viruses, malware, spyware, adware, and a version 7 browser that has just now finally learned to block pop-ups and use tabbed browsing. All on a 3rd party hardware conglomerate laptop. I am running Motion very well on a 13″ Macbook, so don’t give dumb excuses about graphics cards as a reason for a laptop purchase.
Or look at the Inspiron line.
Basic 15″ Macbook Pro $1995
Dell equivalent $1388
Basic 17″ Macbook Pro $2799
Dell equivalent $1661 (2.16GHz vs 2.33GHz, probably an acceptable tradeoff for $1138 in savings)
Basic Macbook $1099
Dell equivalent $804
(Although “equivalent” is a bad word since the Dell includes a 14″ screen and Core 2 Duo processor) With the 1.66GHz core duo take off another $135 for a $669 price tag. it’s hard to configure Dells down to the anemic Macbook specs these days.
Sure you can find one or two Dell configurations which cost more than an equivalent Mac but across the range equivalent Dells are still significantly cheaper than equivalent Macs.
Bloo –
The practice might be fun, but do you really want to be sowing your seeds in that gene pool?
Matt –
The laptop equation places a premium on size and weight. A thinner, lighter solution with equivalent performance is more difficult to engineer and almost always costs more. It would be nice if you could compare your favored HP to a less expensive 17″ MBP 2.16 bundled with an external FW800 HD. That way you could have considerably more total space than with the HP, but with the option of going fast and light (well, relatively anyway) when you don’t need all of it and the option to try out some Mac-only stuff in addition to what you already use. Seems like it would be a more compelling comparison for your particular needs.
I like even lighter solutions so I would probably go with the 2.16 15″ with an additional 20″ monitor at the office.
“option of going fast and light (well, relatively anyway)”
Sure it’s relative, Light and Fast in a PC means a core duo weighing 2.7 pounds or a core 2 duo at 2GHz weighing 3.1 pounds.
That’s almost half the weight of the Apple notebooks with that sort of processing power.
So what are the full specs on those, and how much do they cost?
integrated graphics? 10-12″ screen? $2000?
Pull your head out of the sand. Find a FULL featured laptop, 1″ thick, performance comparable to 17″MBP. At ANY price.
OMG!
Apple MacBook Pro 17″ with 2GB and 160 GB + APP is 1600€ cheaper than the Dell Precision M90 with same configuration.
WOW! Apple has desided to kick seriously Dell out of business!
Good work!
Note to Matt Thompson: From the MacBook Pro Page on Apple.com:
AirPort Express
MacBook Pro offers built-in wireless capability, and you can create your own wireless network with an AirPort Express.
You can look it up yourself — http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/
And you didn’t include the required anti-virus/anti-spyware software, nor the cost of lost productivity hours from updating said software or the eventual Blue Screens of Death…
Dull –
The lightweight machines that you are referring to do not match the functionality and screen size/resolution that Matt specified. They also don’t come close to matching the functionality of the MacBooks and MacBook Pros that you compare them to. Find me a thinner, lighter, less expensive machine that matches or betters the basic hardware specs that Apple offers (to say nothing of the ability to run OS X) and I will stand corrected.
Apple doesn’t offer a machine for every segment, but they compare very favorably within their chosen segments.
“So what are the full specs on those, and how much do they cost?
integrated graphics? 10-12″ screen? $2000? “
Sounds about right, these are Full Featured laptops, and the point is that you can’t get down to that weight from Apple at ANY cost.
And trust me there’s a big difference in carrying 2.7 pounds endlessly thru an
airport compared to 5.6 or 6.8 pounds.
And while you’re at it, find me an Apple notebook which matches it’s 0.8″ thickness.
Have you tried to use a 17″ screen on an plane even in first class? As a primary travel notebook You don’t WANT the big screen, even if you could be bothered carrying a 6.8 pound Macbrick Pro.
“The lightweight machines that you are referring to do not match the functionality and screen size/resolution that Matt specified. “
“They also don’t come close to matching the functionality of the MacBooks and MacBook Pros that you compare them to. “
There’s only three real differences.
1) screen size, which may or may not matter to you. Also if you don’t use the machine just for travel you can run any size LCD. As noted above the big screens don’t work very well for a travel notebook.
2) No built in DVD burner, which frankly may or may not matter to you. If you want it, carry one externally and you’re still lighter than the Mac. Personally in a travel notebook I never need one. a 4GB memory stick suffices for that occasional time you might want to move large amounts of data or install some software using removable media.
3) Intel integrated graphics rather than faster graphics, which again may or may not be important to you.
But MBP owners shouldn’t really be crowing too much about graphics performance compared to the top PC offerings.
Finally the ability to run OS X may or may not be important to you.
But the real issue is that for many people on the road 1) 2) and 3) are just not features they want or need and a 2GHz dual core notebook with Intel integrated graphics gets the job done just fine.
The big important spec is solid high end performance with small size and weight, and Apple simply has no answer to those machines.
Fact is with the PC you have choices, Half the weight of a Macbook and every bit as fast? Sure. Monsterous 20″ screen laptop, sure. Cheap bargain basement laptop? Sure. High end certiifed CAD workstation notebook? Sure.
Apple plays in none of these areas. All it does is a few middle of the road laptops at a premium price compared to other vendor’s middle of the road laptops.
So why buy a Mac?
1) you want to run OS X
2) you prefer Apple’s industrial design
3) you don’t mind paying a price premium for either of the above features.
4) you don’t want a large screen laptop, a compact laptop, a lightweight laptop, a cheap laptop, a laptop with high end graphics, one with Blu-Ray etc etc etc etc etc…
If 1) or 2) are important to you and you don’t mind accepting the compromises you get with the Apple hardware, Fine. Just don’t pretend that what you’re getting comes at Dell level pricing.
Justme2
Come now. You’ve never had a Mac freeze on you? Must not use them very often. As I said, I use Macs on a regular basis and I can assure you they require goofy restarts and they DO freeze up. They just don’t tell you why. Who hasn’t heard of the pinwheel/beachball of death? I am quite familiar with this.
As far as antiviurs and firewall. There are free and excellent programs, AVG and Avast to name two. And convincing yourself you will always be safe because you run a Mac is a serious flaw in your thinking. As the platform becomes more popular, it will be attacked. Come down off the ivory tower bro.
Justme2,
Please, PLEASE read the entire thread. I already corrected myself on the wireless issue, I won’t do it again.
Wow, what an ambarrassing article. The Dell workstation comes with workstation graphics that blows the MBP away. Why not compare laptops with the same specs?
I just configured a Dell Inspiron with a 2.16Ghz Core 2 Duo, a 120GB hard drive, 1GB RAM, 256MB x1400 graphics (similar to 128MB x1600), 802.11b/g, bluetooth 2.0, larger battery option, 8X dual-layer DVD burner, $1798.
It doesn’t come with FireWire 800, but it’s the same form-factor as the Precision that the stupid article refers to.
Dells are a bit cheaper, but the MacBook Pro is a better buy – it has a backlit keyboard, it’s beautiful, thin and light, it’s got a slot-loaded optical drive, it runs Mac OS X. The article doesn’t have to be misleading like it is to make the MacBook Pro look good, it stands on its own just fine. Sheesh.
” – it has a backlit keyboard, it’s beautiful, thin and light, it’s got a slot-loaded optical drive, it runs Mac OS X. “
And you’re obviously ready to pay another $1000 for these features, which is fine, but your “Better Buy” may not be the same as sombody else’s.
Someone else, with a different set of prioritys may use logic like “The Dell’s a thousand bucks cheaper, I don’t really intend to tote a 17” notebook worth me often so the fact that the Dell’s about a pound heavier and a bit thicker doesnt matter so much. I can get it with a graphics accelerator that’s almost three times faster than the one in the top end Mac, and a higher resolution LCD than Apple offers and since I do a lot of graphics intensive work, or play games that’s important, so while the Mac’s prettier, I’ll take the machine that’s overall much faster and better for my application and use the change to buy a bunch of other stuff.
jebus dudes… flames are going around here like napalm…
if you really don’t want a Mac, fine, stick with your PC. At least use a Mac for half an hour to get some facts straight.
Us Mac users will just have to miss out on the dozens of drivers you have to instal, and the defragging of HDDs, and the constant thread of viruses bringing our systems to our knees :p
To Matt Thompson:
“Difference of $649.97
Pardon me for sounding frugal, but an extra 330Mhz, slower hard drive with less space, inferior graphics card, non-Lightscribe DVD-RW DL drive, non-built in wireless card, OS X and the Apple name are not worth the extra $650 I would’ve had to pay to purchase one. Numbers don’t lie.”
What are you smoking dude?
” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”grin” style=”border:0;” /> . I’ve driven, power used, built and re-built PCs for 16 years (as in I needed to in order to keep up with my primary work as a network systems architect completing specs, proposals, software etc.). As soon as OS X matured [10.X] (and I had watched it come along for several years), I jumped (2 years ago) to a G4 PB running Virtual PC (for my PC stuff).
Man! I got my Life back (no joke!) – as in weekends in the sun (not doing Windows rebuilds or getting a speakerphone because I was so tired of resting the phone on my shoulders for 3 hours wading through Dell’s telephone “support”. Most everything was so, just, it worked out of the box, and when I needed to do something new it seemed Apple had thought about it in pre-design. I didn’t turn off my machine for 6 months and basically for the first time in my life forgot I was using a PC and began using a set of tools.
Too cool to sum up in words, save to say (and it depends, for you, on how much YOU get paid for your time, or how much you VALUE your Life time) that that “Difference of $649.97” you talked about, I got back each and EVERY weekend I’ve owned a Mac. And then some.
If the difference had been a $1000.00 it would still have been a no-brainer – the sheer peace of mind I’ve had from the absence of virus problems, blue screens, weird Windows registry problems (I’m now (reluctantly) a Windows registry expert and like, who needed that?!), and just the plain ease of use and quality of build has made that hypothetical $1,000 difference not even zero – it’s a negative number.
Don’t just run the numbers, look at the impact of the system in and on your life (especially now the Mac is an Intel twofer!). ANd remember, one of the Mac intangibles – aside from adding up the cost of pieces – is how EVERYTHING hard and soft works together because it was designed to. Everything. It means I’ve had zip integration, driver, information transfer, etc. issues. Time off the clock, money in the pocket, and Life in the heart-body-mind.
And all this coming from someone who’s true love in life was and in some ways remains a loaded IBM ThinkPad and IBM’s incredible (then) online service for PCs. But even that wasn’t good enough to neutralize the process, business, and Life cost of using Windows – ‘2000’ and ‘XP’ was as far as I went, and XP was sheer necessity – and as for Vista? Well, there’s the coming Leopard (10.5) which I believe is going to go ballistic (!), and then there’s Vista, which I believe (from all I’ve read) is going to be a high-pressure, daily surveillance from Microsoft, costs too much of Life, experience.
Cheers.