In its latest report on Apple, Merrill Lynch weighs in on today’s headlines regarding a possible iTunes video store and rumors that Apple might use Intel chips. Also in the report, as noted by MacNN, “Store managers told [Merrill Lynch Analyst Steven Milunovich] that PC users are reluctant to make the switch to Mac and are opting for low cost PCs, such as Gateway’s eMachines. Some store associates said they are at a disadvantage with Macs because Best Buys don’t carry software for Apple, according to the research report. However, the firm says that ‘Mac mini sales appear solid at Apple stores.’ Merrill Lynch reiterated a ‘Buy’ rating with a price target of $51 per share.”
Full article, including the analyst’s information regarding a possible video iPod and iTunes video store here.
MacDailyNews Take: Just imagine: Fred and Harriet traipse on over to the local Best Buy and come this close to having Mac OS X and instead schlep away a pile of Gateway eMachine running Windows. “Gee, Harriet, I don’t see any boxes of software for this Apple thingy. Let’s get another Gateway like the nice Best Buy Boy says. It’s in a bigger box.” It’s enough to make you laugh — or cry — depending on your point of view.
Note: Apple Mac mini units ship preloaded with Apple’s Mac OS X Tiger, widely regarded as the world’s best operating system on the market today including features like Spotlight, Dashboard, Automator, etc., along with Safari, Mail, iMovie, iTunes, iPhoto, iDVD, iCal, iSync, iChat, Address Book, AppleWorks, and more.
Related MacDailyNews articles:
Apple Mac mini now available at 671 Best Buy retail stores – April 06, 2005
It’s official: Apple acknowledges Best Buy to carry Mac mini models – April 05, 2005
Analyst: Best Buy to stock Apple Mac mini, Tiger likely due by end of April – April 04, 2005
RUMOR: Best Buy to sell Mac mini in retail stores – March 29, 2005
MDN
Actually, if the Mac Mini has been on the shelves that long it probably doesn’t have all those features–probably running Panther. It seems to happen quite often that resellers such as Compusa or Best Buy sell machines that do not have the software—and Apple will only sell you the upgrade in this case, or you need to haggle witht he reseller.
First post? Hot damm! O.K. If ya can’t get software for the thing what’s the point? What about I-move HD?
How about a multi-processer OS with PPC AND intel? Do you really want to kick some ass?
SGM,
Even so, Panther is light years ahead of Windows XP and the Mac mini still has Safari, Mail, iMovie, iTunes, iPhoto, iDVD, iCal, iSync, iChat, Address Book, AppleWorks, and more.
multi-processer OS with PPC AND intel?
O.K. second post.
You can lead a horse to water…
Oh please, I visited a couple of the local Best Buy store that carry the Mac Mini. They’re completely hidden away in a corner of the computer area. The employees couldn’t find their butt with both hands they’re so incompetant.
No wonder they’re not selling well. Maybe if you have Steve’s “Store within a Store” idea with Apple Retail Store Employees manning the mac (and iPod) section you could see the sales go up.
No shit. I was at Best Buy the other day eying a Mini…. the retard working the computers that day came up to me and said “ewe…a mac?”…I swear to God… good sales tactic…. I took it upon myself to educate the man in matters if computing security and productivity.
Needless to say, they had the Dock as big as it could be…with magnification full blast…and it was running 10.3.8… the uptime was probably 4 months.
But you can’t make it think
MDN’s analysis misses the point (unlike the original article, which Got It). It doesn’t matter what Fred and Harriet thinks. If there’s no Mac software there, then the sales associate won’t try to sell it. And Apple has its own AppleCare program, so Best Buy and the salesman can’t make their nut on the extended warranty, which as you probably know is where Best Buy and their people make most of their profits, not on the box.
Why would you buy a Mac Mini from Best Buy when the 18 yr old salesperson doesn’t have a clue about what they are selling? If I were going to buy a Mac, I would either buy directly from the Apple Store (where they do know what they are selling) or buy from the Apple Online Store (because its convenient and I might get a deal on a refurbished unit).
Where I live, the Best Buy is only about 500 ft away from the Apple Store, so even if I found it at the Best Buy, I would travel the extra 500 feet to get the better service from the Apple Store.
Honestly, the Mac Mini is not a very good value. Small HD, G4 and no RAM. And only one slot for RAM, so you buy an extra 512, and you don’t get 768 MB, because you have to remove the original 256 MB.
Its an excellent value if you consider the cost of the software installed on it.
I was at one of the original Best Buys in Minnesota, is was not easily found, it did have Tiger running, sadly with only 256 ram, itunes quit on me, so I took it upon myself to run ‘Repair Permissions’ and left after I hit restart. The sales guy did have a less than warm response to my playing with the mini, some retraining is overdue. With it not even being online, Dashboard was useless.
MW ‘trying’ BB is not trying very hard at all.
It’s no wonder. Best Buy apparently are idiots. They just opened their first store in Montreal, Quebec last week and what do you suppose? For their Grand Opening, they put up all English language signage, a circumstance which is not only totally illegal under penalty of prosecution and enforcement, but also just about the worst slap in the face that a business can do to the ninety percent of the Quebec populace who speak French as their first language. Furthermore, with the exception of the Mac mini, the few other Macs that Best Buy offers for sale in Canada appear to primarily be older models with very little discounting, to boot. Check the site for yourself. Best Buy Canada. pfffttt.
When I saw the lonely Mac Mini at my nearest best buy,I wanted to make it look nice,because it was at 1024×768 on a 17in flat panel.I also changed the background.No one cared,and to be honest,I was dissapointed that no one even glared at it.It wasn’t stuck in a corner,more in the front of the section.Still,people probably thought it was a modem or something.They really need to sell mac software,because when I get my iMac G5 from the apple store,I’m definately buying some piece of software for it.
Last time I was at Best Buy, I stopped by the computer section to see the Mini on display. The display was running, but no cool screensaver or anything inviting or interesting, so I decided to remedy by choosing a screensaver. A salesman noticed me and said – “you look like a Mac guy, maybe you can tell me how to get Access the CD on this thing” – then he proceeded to try to pry open the top of the Mini. He could just not conceive of something without a CD tray! When I showed him how to insert and eject a CD, he was bowled over. If apple is serious about selling through these meatheads, they should enlist the help of local user groups to hang out and advocate for macs in these stores and give them some token monetary support for doing so. It’s no wonder at all that they don’t sell any.
Best Buy is a crappy place to buy ANYTHING. Particularly something nuanced and elegant like a Mac Mini. They make their money like Wal-Mart. I have always wondered why the heck Apple ever thought they would be a good reseller. They aren’t good at promoting ANYTHING that people don’t already want. Sheesh. If I wanted to buy something that I could get anywhere, I might go to Best Buy. If I want to buy something that works, and has people that support it, I WILL NOT GO TO A BIG BOX STORE PERIOD.
– Pariah
“With it not even being online, Dashboard was useles”
May be Apple should ship Mac mini with Airport card as standard. Wouldn’t it be fun to watch BB sales person turns on Mac mini for first time and is greeted by a dialog box asking if he/she wants to connect to the network (assuming BB has wireless running in store).
Also, Apple should have “Demo” mode, which repairs the permissions everynight (I know Apple discourage use of “mode,” but Apple should make exception).
Ted_O: “the Mac Mini is not a very good value”
I don’t think Mac mini was meant to be a very good value. It was designed to attract PC owners, not Apple owners. If you are an experienced Mac user, you realize quickly eMac and iMac are better value. However, PC owners who only looks at the spec sheet (i.e., MHz) and price, Mac mini looks good.
The Best buy in my area (Pembroke Pines, FL) has a mini on display. They had it running a DVD (The Matrix of course), and not much else. None of the people there had a clue what to do with it, it was only set up with one account and practically no demo material.
I set up a demo account, dragged the Office icons to the dock, launched Garageband and set up a quick funky demo. When I was done I walked over to the video section to buy my weeks supply of fresh DVD goodness.
I figured I would stop back over to see if anyone there had noticed the changes I made and lo and behold almost ALL of the computer guys were gathered around playing with GB.
I told them I had set it up and they admitted that they had received no training and that there was no Apple rep that visited Best Buy stores.
How does anyone expect theses things to sell in that kind of environment?
When I was at a Best Buy here in Cincinnati the associate said he had sold no mac mini’s and then stated that they were not as good as a PC. I just laughed and proceeded to load an iPhoto slide show to really show the shoppers what it was capable of doing.
Oh, he also said there was not a marketing niche for it, so I guess that is why they are not moving. I could not believe it. Have you ever heard of iLife and digital entertainment. They are selling thousands of digital cameras everyday and now they have the best computers and software to offer. Best Buy really needs to educate their teenage dolts…. who are of course not on commission.
They don’t know anything about the digi cams either
I think it’s Apple who has to advertise Mac OS X and particularly iLife, with an “available at…” tagline.
Then they will sell themselves.
I did some recon at Best Buy a few weeks ago and mentioned then that Mac Mini’s will not move through this channel. Why?
1. Sales reps are not (in their own words) “Mac guys”. They said Macs are good for “artist types”.
2. The ‘Geek Squad’ nobs had loaded their branded wallpaper on the Mini and didn’t bother to load the current OS X Tiger. They weren’t even aware that there was a “Tiger OS”
3. No Mac software
4. All PC’s were connected to the ‘net, not the Mini
Anywho, suffice to say the Best Buy channel is shit for moving Macs
Cheers!
For the Gingerbread Man: Get your facts straight. With a Proof of Purchases, the consumer can easily upgrade to TIGER without paying. If you’re going to publish items, get it freakin right!
Up-to-Date Program for new Macs
Apple provides a Mac OS X Tiger upgrade program for all new Macintosh computers purchased on or after April 12, 2005 (2005-04-12) if the computer did not come with Mac OS X 10.4.
From reading these posts about the Best Buy sales force and the customers, I can only conclude that Apple’s biggest problem is trying to sell a computer so sophisticated that it requires far more intelligence to appreciate than most Americans possess.
MW: basis No basis, it’s just my snippy, arrogant opinion.
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“they put up all English language signage, a circumstance which is not only totally illegal under penalty of prosecution and enforcement”? What the hell is wrong with you Canadian Frogs??????? Why the hell would it be illegal under penalty of prosecution and enforcement? Maybe the US should take the same stance against Mexicans. That would go over like a lead balloon!!
DISMAY!
The guys/girls that sell the computers only led me to the Windows machines. Stating improved security with the service packs and the additional software needed. Ånd hey, I know people who really like this machines relibility…….good god!
The walked me away from the mac for this and when asked if the mac was any better……..”We do not use the mac, it seems more difficult to use.” “What is Tiger, again?”
When I started to educate the salesperson on how to use the computer, I started to see a mindless stare develop. God, will the mindless masses ever learn!!!!!!
I drive a Mercedes, BMW, Toyota, Cadalliac and proudly buy the cheapest, most unreliable computer on the market.
Will it ever stop
>Andrew:
“they put up all English language signage, a circumstance which is not only totally illegal under penalty of prosecution and enforcement”? What the hell is wrong with you Canadian Frogs??????? Why the hell would it be illegal under penalty of prosecution and enforcement? Maybe the US should take the same stance against Mexicans. That would go over like a lead balloon!!”
That’s just a sad and ignorant opinion that reflects lack of reflection and cultural awareness… everybody should just speak english, right?
It does boggle the mind.
I don’t understand why Apple does not provide a software demo to self promote the mac mini at best buy.
think the solution is not to use Best buy. Sales via stores such as Best Buy is needed to get those who normally wouldn’t consider a Mac (and, therefore, wouldn’t go to an Apple store) to see it.
As detailed above, this obviously isn’t currently working. But that doesn’t mean it couldn’t be effective. Having an Apple rep to train the Best Buy Bozos sounds like a start (the iLife thing should be huge), as does requiring them to carry the Mac version of software…the fact they don’t even know about Tiger is a huge error on Apple’s part.
Most people have no idea what a Mini, Tiger or Apple is. But… they do know what an iPod is.
If Apple sold the mini as an accessory (ie.Dock) to the iPod, they would probable have better luck selling it to the masses.
I’ve almost spent enough on iPod accessories that I could have bought a Mini.
Better yet, bundle them together at a discount.
For all those who say the Mac mini is not a good buy, or for Mac users. I bought one and put in 1 gig of crucial ram at about $135 US. My son is playing war craft on it right now, and I have done several Keynote presentaions with it instead of luging my dual G5 1.8. My teenage kids love it.
Good call, Bandit Bill. The mini could be pitched at those who want an iPod, but have no computer to get songs onto it. “For the price of a second iPod, you can have a Mac mini. And it does a lot more besides.”
Apple should have learned from its experience with Fry’s about resellers. I’ve spoken to former Fry’s salespeople who admit that they were trained to steer people away from the Mac department because there was more profit margin in the PCs and no extended waranty profits in the Macs.
On the other hand, does Apple really want the kind of people who buy computers from know-nothing salespeople at outlets like BB as customers? I’d be very interested in the level of tech support calls generated by these folks versus everyone else and the word of mouth they spread when they get home and can’t figure the “damned useless thing” out.
When I started to educate the salesperson on how to use the computer, I started to see a mindless stare develop. God, will the mindless masses ever learn!!!!!!
when the Best Buy deal happened, it was a sign that Apple was ready do whatever it took to improve the Mac distribution. Okay, fine, so you don’t expect the store to be as nice as the Apple Store. It’s a $500 switcher Mac for PC users.. okay great.
When it comes down to it, there seems to be a large proportion of morons in the Windows camp who just can’t be reasoned with. I loved the description of the sales guy here.. what must he have been thinking?
‘Macs don’t have viruese. Zero. I don’t care about SP2’
BestBuyGuy (You must be kidding, what do you mean no viruses?)
‘Macs come with tons of great software preinstalled, like iLife, which is nowhere to be found on the PC side’
BBG (That’s a program…? I thought it was a preferences panel for choosing the wallpaper..)
‘Tiger is on there, that’s an incredibly sophisticated OS, bullet proof and about 5 years ahead of Windows.. Longhorn’s not gonna be until about 2007’
BBG (What’s Longhorn?)
Painful that after all the hard work Apple put in to get the Macs into these stores, it’s more fighting against complete morons.
‘Ew, a Mac?’
Yes a Mac, I realize it doesn’t do much for you Service/Support guys, but it does a lot for me, dipshit.
Quebec? English? My, all those Best Buy folks should be shot. We all know that the French language is more precise and allows for more humane exchange of information.
Hypocrites. We all know that the people of Quebec make it hard to put up English signs anywhere but they darn well better have French everywhere else in Canada!
Please, quit your whining over there in Quebec. Seceed from the Union already and let the rest of us in Canada improve our collective IQ.
ok, I have beef with Best Buy and there associates….first and foremost, those guys are RETARDS! I have two Best Buy’s near by, one in Colma and the other in San Francisco…again, they are all retards — clueless and passionateless about technology. (they are there simply to collect a paycheck and go home — kinda like Fry’s employees)
1st) I went to a store to go browse the large DVD collection they have assembled — I have to admit they have a nice DVD library..However, being the Mac nut I am — I couldn’t resist the temptation of visiting my lone Mac bud — Mac mini. As I made my way over the Mac mini display, the first I noticed that no Apple advertisement is evident — however, I did find it and noticed a woman with a young girl were chatting with a BB ASSociate..The young girl was this woman’s daughter — she was asking about the Mac mini and suggesting that since her daugther was in 9th grade, she thought about getting her a Mac mini — I quickly, heard the sale gimp, slam that idea and express why he felt it was a bad idea..I rather not go into dreat detail in what transpired next, but to make a long story short..she bought a HP.
my second encounter:
Again, while visiting the BB stores and browsing the TV section..I came across the MP3 section..needless to say the iPod was amongst other MP3 players, such as the Rio, and Zen….I noticed next to the BB computer was another ASSociate and a customer..in his hand he held a Creative Zen — she was doing her best to sell him the Zen ..I listened for a bit and when the opportunity gave, I intervened..I tapped the customer on the shoulder and advised him that he was making a big mistake not buying a iPod..he caved and bought the iPod…..shortly after, I spoke with the ASSociate and she was quick to say that him buying the iPod over the Zen was a mistake…I was not only blown away, but stumped why she would say that…she said, that she doesn’t like to be tied to iTunes — I said, you don’t like to be organized? — she then retorted with, I don’t like the fact, I have to use music from iTunes music store — I said, you can own both a iPod and iTunes never once buy a song from the store — you can use music from Kazaa, Limewire or your own CD’s….needless to say she was quiet..her last comment was that the Zen was easier to use…..needless to go into what I said to her..dumb and stupid these people are.. PEOPLE, if you go shopping @ Best Buy’s don’t count on these clowns knowing there assholes from there eye sockets….go informed.
For those who think there is no margin opportunity in a Mac Mini you are soooo wrong. I would be trying to sell them over PC’s any day.
I worked at CompuSmart (Canada’s largest computer “ONLY” retailer) for 5 years in retail sales. CompuSmart sells and services PC’s and Macs.
We had the option of selling Applecare or a SmartPlan extended warranty on Apple products. Best Buy likely can do the same with their extended warrant plan.
Not only is a Mini an opportunity for an extended warranty but it is an opportunity for margin from the service center with Bluetooth, memory, Airport, internal DVD writer upgrade.
Other add-ons include a keyboard, mouse, mouse pad, monitor, external hard drive, DVD burner, printer, paper, USB cable, USB hub, surge supressor, blank CD/DVD’s, digital camera, DV camera, external speakers, iPod (with accessories of course) an OSX or iLife manual.
Should I go on?
said, you can own both a iPod and iTunes never once buy a song from the store — you can use music from Kazaa, Limewire or your own CD’s….needless to say she was quiet..her last comment was that the Zen was easier to use…..
WTF she didn’t know that you could put MP3’s on the iPod and she works at Best Buy selling Digital Music players?!?!
Best Buy apparently hires only the clueless to sell their computer-related gear. On a recent visit to the local BB emporium where I attempted to find a RED ink cartridge for my Canon i9900 printer, the “genius” on duty insisted that “magenta” was “the ‘new red'” for that machine! Sure!
A rather thick mac using chum of mine once commented that the Apple Cube wasn’t the actual computer, the bit that did the computing was obviously hidden under the desk somewhere. This is the kind of pig ignorance Apple should use advertising to combat, not that Goldblum twat talking in a poncey affected voice about nothing informative at all. Also, if you knew nothing about computers but walked into PC World (in the UK) and you saw shelves and shelves of PC software but only half a dozen sad dusty boxes of Mac stuff, what would you buy computer-wise? Why the f*ck doesn’t Apple ensure all stockists have ring binders (such as those you get in that hell-hole Halfords the car parts shop, which list applications of spark plugs, air filters etc) full of laminated cards listing/detailing ALL the software available for Macs. Without advertising, the thick bastards who don’t hear word of mouth recommendations ‘cos none of their mates have Macs, and also don’t see any ads on TV aren’t going to consider anything but a Wintel box. The majority of the world is made of stupid people who need things explaining to them and until Apple realises that then you’ll never shift Mac Minis in any sort of numbers by just sticking a couple on a shelf in a corner of a supermarket.
If Fred and Harriet go to BB and come back with a Gateway that makes one less furious call from Fred to Apple Support screaming that Apple screwed him big time “It is 4 hours that I try to let the machine get my FLOPPIES but you idiots made the slot too SMALL”
There’s a reason why people get a Wintel PC: either they are Sputnik with his head why up above the clouds, or they have their heads why up above the clouds. The result is the same: CLUELESS.
ROFLMAO, even talking about Windows and Windozers lowers your IQ:
“why up” UHUOHHOHAHAHAOEHAHHAOEHHAOEHAOHAOEHAH
One more proof that Windows is the most powerful virus ever: it attacks your brain cells.
They may also not be selling at Best Buy because the sales reps are clueless on what the Mac is.
Dictionary
lowest common denominator
noun Mathematics
… derogatory-the level of the least discriminating audience or consumer group : they were accused of pandering to the lowest common denominator of public taste.
In the good old USA Wal-Mart is the #1 store, teens are culturally led around by the nose by Viacom (Comedy Central/BET/MTV/VH1/Spike/CMT), and many think that what CNN/MSNBC/FNC/CBS/ABC produce is news. People pay $100/month for 250 channels of ‘reality’ shows, old movies and reruns of old network TV. Screw ’em.
So Macs don’t sell because ALL computer sales people EVERYWHERE are total morons and ALL potential buyers (now evil M$ slaves) are too stupid to recognize Macs for what they are. Sure, fanboys. Throw another couple of clichés around. It’ll make you feel better and forever superior. (It won’t sell a single Mac, though. In fact, it is counterproductive…)
If Apples marketing department thinks along lines like those, it’s no wonder that the Mac is such a small player on the market…
When is everyone going to realize that the Mac will only sell in masses, once the general public is aware of the fact that they exist and are they are like any other computer, just a better choice for several reasons.
This ‘think different’-shyte just attracts some haughty wannabe rebels.
That, and the prices of course. I go to BB, I have $600 in my pocket. What do I buy, a low-end Mac or a middle-of-the-road Wintel? I have to be pretty darned convinced of the superiority of the low-end machine to consider buying it.
Who’s going to convince me of it’s superiority? Not you lot…
I really think Apple is as much to blame here as Best Buy goons. We all already know that purchasing a Mac over a Windows machine is one that requires a bit of reasonable thought and understanding. We likewise already know that Best Buy goons are — by and large — teenagers or college students who really are ‘passionateless’ about technology, as one poster mentioned above.
Think about it like this: we’ve all shared the Mac platform with our friends. Now… who are receptive and who aren’t? The correct answer is that those who understand and appreciate good technology listen, even if they don’t already know much (or anything) about Macs, while those who don’t Get It… well, continue to Not Get It.
That being said, if Apple is serious about shifting Macs (particularly Minis) to the masses, then they should engage retailers and consumers alike. SHOW them why Macs are great. TEACH them at least a modicum about how to use them. EDUCATE them about why Macs really are a better bargain in the long run… etc etc.
Until such time as Apple does so, Minis will continue to languish on retail shelves. Don’t blame the kid who’s making eight bucks an hour, blame Steve. The kid may not know better but can learn. Steve already knows better (hell, he’s made Knowing Better his life’s work!) yet he and Apple still have not done any better.
The pretty blue Aqua background doesn’t sell computers. Showing why they are better surely does.
Cheers,
adam
People that go to Best Buy generally know what they are looking for – hence the need for only low-trained salespeople.
Blame Apple!
Where is their advertising to the masses? Where is their in-store promotion and marketing? There´s lots of room in a Best Buy store to set up a special Apple demo days promotion booth for the weekend. Every seen Apple do it?
And no Apple omputer-related software….sheesh…..
And most PC owners do not even think about buying an Apple computer – it is just not on their radar. Kind of like someone buying an electric stove – that gas stove is just not even considered.
At an Apple store look how many staff there are just to sell one line of product…and I have not been too impressed with most of them…
(I wonder how many windows PCs Apple would sell if they had them available in their stores…I bet lots of them.)
I agree with Adam. Apple need to get off their backside and realise that there is an entire generation around that only know Windows. If Cupertino can’t be bothered correcting that, then who is going to?
So Macs don’t sell because ALL computer sales people EVERYWHERE are total morons and ALL potential buyers ….
Okay, I got about 5 words into your post and knew your game. You’ve got a real whiny attitude and I refuse to ‘read the rest of it’…
No, YOU decided to put words in everyone’s mouth so you could post that glorious rant. If 90% of the world uses Windows, of course, the implication is not that all of them are retarded. Having 10% of people understand something as ‘hobby-ish’ as computers down to the finest detail is impressive.
The point is the Best Buy guys were overtly slamming the Mac and lying to the customers. Is this not odd to you? That someone who is paid to sell a particular category of products wouldn’t even know about Macs? The implication that there is no software for Macs? The lower Ghz rating which customers likely look at and walk past?
Mac users got what they wanted, having Macs in Best Buy is a big deal. It says alot about Apple’s growing mindshare (not just the iPod).. but there’s a long way to go.. since, evidently, the world does not like change…
No one.. NO ONE.. was making grand generalizations except you. And you only did it so you could write a whiny post.
An incentive for the sales representatives at Best Buy would be a smart move for the company itself. That said, Apple should supply more shelf information especially on iLife. I don’t think there is a single person out there (hardcore platformers excluded) who would resist the Mac OS’ ease of use and software integration if they only knew. It’s the start of something new, this whole Mac mini is the beginning of more things to come. In my opinion, Apple is testing the water to see what works and what sells so that when they have the tactiacal move they want they can take it with assurance that the product will sell.
Hybrid is right in many respects, we as computer users should not shun the non-computing public. Calling everyone but us fantastic names such as, “moron, stupid, idiot” for not knowing, not caring much is what would make us worse than the people who refuse to look at a Mac because of what it is. There is an untapped market with the general public, many many people would be interested in having a computer to do things for them casually. But therein lies the keyword, casual. For the most part, people do not want to learn, they do not want to be educated, they do not want to have to spend time or troubleshoot computing. While Apple makes the Mac OS very simple, greatt looking, stable and powerful in productivity and usefulness, the fact remains; You still have to figure out how to use the computer.
Computing is more widespread and more easily accessed and learned these days so it’s good as we move forward to better and brighter things to have people just “know”. Many know that computers serve a purpose, computing is an object oriented task; “I want to do this, I will use this to do that.” Objective orientation. It’s all about where you end up. Aside from viruses/trojans/malware/spyware/keyloggers, Windows OS can do most things Mac OS can, both platforms are near each other in basic operation of what a computer does. The reason people don’t choose Mac are the following; Misinformation about what a Mac can/cannot do, Seeing the Mac as a piece of “trend” hardware/toy, knowing people who use the Windows OS that will sway the buyers decision (it’s a big one to be sure), not being willing/not wanting to learn a whole new syste (while they are in basic form the same, the Mac OS even being easy, is still different and different scares people away often-times). There are other points to be sure but I am just going to cut to the main idea; Either Windows or Mac, “If it gets me to my objective in the form that I want it, then does it matter to me?” This is the prevailing attitude among the average user, the ability to see the Mac OS elegance is a thing of learning, or just simply using as many things are simple and easy on our OS.
That’s about all I can think of right now, time to sleep! In the meantime, while we may have a superior product, we don’t need to be pompous assholes who suggest to others that ours is the only way. Be kind!
user_01, you forgot another couple of reasons for Windows users:
Mac has one button mouse: how will I ever learn to work with such a limitation.
Macs have no games: how could I then use the computer to play? Hence Mac is a toy, not a real computer.
My friends are all on PCs: how could I send them emails, chat with them, play at the latest FPS with this silly toy.
I switched tens of people I know. Some are totally utterly unreachable. Frankly… from their reasons and level of understanding it is a relief they do not get it. I would hate to have to pamper them because after a week they are still trying to a Control-Alt-Delete on the Mac or complain why there is not a Start menu so that they could shut down the machine.
Good things to add, iPodder.
The one button mouse is always a complaint, personally I can’t do w/o my 6 button mouse and it’s ironic that it’s made by Microsoft. People often don’t need that, it’s just what they have grown accustomed to seeing as the normality and therefore anything less is sub-par.
Macs being without game, and therefore they are toys. It’s entirely ironic, but true, that this viewpoint is often taken. It chafes me to hear this as if games were all of a sudden the ONLY thing people EVER do with a computer. Yet it is always brought forth and suggested that there aren’t ANY games at all. Why buy a computer to play games for the most part anyway, consoles fill that role quite nicely. (yes yes I know Half Life 2 is PC only and not console, is HL2 the only game in existence? Would you buy a computer that costs upwards of $1,000 to play 1 or two games and do nothing else?) I play games, I get most of the games that I want for my OS, what’s the problem? I believe it taps on the same principal that many of our own camp having been voicing lately, that our hardware is outdated and lacking (specifically the cpu) Thata is the “We got it first, we can do this that much faster, we smash your baby toys, nyaaaaaaahnaaaaaaah.” Okay now, lets think about this for a moment; How many people have the free cash to buy a new cpu every time an improvement is made, if you said none then you’d be correct. People in our camp are complaining that IBM is dragging ass on the dual core next generation processors when we already have awesomely quick processors at prices that said users can’t afford anyway! So what’s the point to that? There isn’t one, it’s all a naming game, it’s all about we got it first and we are better and this proves it. It’s one-upmanship and it is RIDICULOUS and utterly meaningless. It will never change as people like to say that they have something that is the best and therefore you should feel bad because your thing can’t do what their thing can efficiently. Basic everyday psychology at work.
Moving along, the comatability thing is nearly nil at this point in the game. You can find a solution to crossplatform so many things that it boggles the mind. There is jsut what you said, iPodder, lack of understanding and the inability to see it any way other than what they are used to.
This is why PC users put up with the experience that they do with constantly updating, patching, approving the firewall safety, being bothered by windows that come up on top of everything else making itself a priority because obviously what you were doing wasn’t important. Not to mention updating drivers and BIOS every time you install something (why why why why why, the drivers I can see for printers and the like, but the BIOS is just insulting) Dodge pop-ups with software that you add on “But hey it’s free!!!” I say why need it in the first place? Cleaning adware from your registry, man I am having trouble believing such a system exists now that I think about how bad it all sounds. Yet, it’s all people usually know therefore it is the standard and everything else comes second t it, in this reasoning you start to believe that everything on other operating systems should act and feel the exact same way as on your “standard” system. Oh man I almost forgot, the graphical user interface. Oh boy, this usually gets em’ fired up, Windows simply looks like garbage. There is no looking past it, they try to pass the Mac OS GUI off as being bloated, give mme a break there is no excuse stop tryig to shift focus here. Your system looks bad physically so I guess all of a sudden it makes it somehow “lightwheight and minimal”? Think again, all it makes it is an eyesore.
Forgetting Apple for a second, it depresses me that the public at large seem to look solely at price when buying computers. The cheaper the better. They get dazzled by the low prices then when they find they’ve bought a lemon console themselves with the fact that all computers are a pain to use anyway.
Mike, how you manage to not read a post and yet comment on it is beyond me
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You misunderstand my point totally, though. Macs don’t sell all that well and all we get from the fanboys here is blame for some reseller and his employees, as well as simplistic remarks about ‘patchers’ who’ll never see the light anyway.
Sticking ones head in the sand, there’s no other explanation for that attitude.
If the patchers (talk about stupid clichés. I run Windows, too and spend most of my time with it working/gaming, believe it or not. Weeks go by that I do not have to spend a single thought on virii and the likes. Of course, on the Mac it’s less than that (close to 0, of course), but if you’d believe what people say here, Windows users spend most of their time fixing problems. Simply not true.) where was I? Oh yeah, if the patchers are really impossible to cure, than the entire concept of marketing is void. That’s a load of BS of course.
Every consumer out there is potential Mac user, Apple just has to reach them. As the best marketing is mouth-to-mouth, I will not tire of calling the blind fanboys (you know who you are) for what they are. They hamper selling Macs, more than anything else.
I for one hate that, because some healthy competition for Bill would be good for everybody.
“Mac has one button mouse: how will I ever learn to work with such a limitation.”
The Mac mini has no mouse. If one is adding the mini or replacing a PC, one would likely have the mouse they prefer.
It would be cool if Apple did like Microsoft does with retail channels- when they launched the Media Center version of XP, they used volunteers to go to all the retail outlets to setup demos and instruct the staff. Retail managers want to move boxes, if you’ll offer to help them they are more than glad to take the help.
Something like putting the NiN GarageBand track on a Mini and having that running along with a DVD and some photos in iPhoto as well as a iDVD file setup with the NiN track and the photos in iDVD would do wonders for sales. You could show off all components of the system in about 10 minutes and people would love the ease of use vs. Windows – you wouldn’t need software to move boxes, they would move themselves after that.
People who buy computers based on what they think of its users are not looking for a computer. They are looking for social identification. Though such self-esteem issues are common, I seriously doubt someone browsing for computers at Best Buy would look at a Mac and say “Well, I don’t like Mac because all of those assholes who comment on MDN.”
Hybrid: maybe because what you write is out of touch?
Apple as an increase of sales of over 40% and has been outpacing global computers sales increase. Macs are not selling? Think again.
The article is about Mac Minis at BB left off the network, without any demo running and with sales persons telling you to buy something else as PC are better and in any case do not know what to show on the Mac.
Mac users are too smart to purchase anything from “best” buy!
eff: “The Mac mini has no mouse”
and the average Windozer will say “Look, they went from a one button mouse to NO MOUSE AT ALL. They are crazy at Apple. I’ll never buy from them”
Do not underestimate idiocy.
eff, what’s more, denying that a Windows user, for how much s/he could be intrigued by the Mac, could get out of the store with a Mac with sale persons as the ones described in the article, and for the worst commenting that blaming ignorant sales persons for low volume is being a ‘fan boy’, that “Mac don’t sell that well” – ROFLMAO, this is the best one – and that here we should stop “Sticking ones head in the sand” is more than enough to fire up the
TROLL ALARM
Hybrid, for a moment I took you seriously. You just made the MDN Troll list.
Speaking of generalization: Hybrid – “So Macs don’t sell because ALL computer sales people EVERYWHERE are total morons”
HUHOAHAHAHAHHAHOUEHA Are you under the influence or what?
It is Mac Mini, at Best Buy. Period.
Mac Mini at Apple Store sells by truck loads.
The rest of the line grew more that PCs worldwide.
Apple had stellar results in terms of growth. What the heck are you talking about, TROLL?
caveat to the above – they would move themselves because of the software that is pre-loaded on the Mini, not because of software on the shelves(or lack thereof)
iPodder,
You made 4 comments in 13 minutes with no intervening response from the person you are claiming to be a “TROLL”. I hate the concept of TROLLS myself, but what exactly are you fishing for in your comments?
A little bit extra on a Mac-mini and an eMac is a cheaper and better choice. The eMac’s only dis-advantage is it child-proof-strongness and therefore heavy..
Apple knows all to good that -a whole computing generation- does not know anything but Wintel. Putting Macs back beside those shiny clumbsy PC boxes does not make sense.. Apple is on the right direction and will never achive more than 15-20% of the marked.
Yeah yeah, attack the messenger, try to throw mud, divert from the issue, it’s the easiest way to stop thinking.
For a product that is the better of three realistic choices in many ways, Apples marketshare is a joke. That Mac Minis sell well in Apple stores is a given. But to seriously give Bill a run for his money, Mac (Minis, too, or maybe foremost, for they are the cheapest) needs to be sold to people who have another system or no system. What starter is going to walk into an Apple store?
Which user is NOT going to compare prize first and then benchmarks? 2.5Ghz looks worse than 3.5Ghz. We know that the Mac gives you more instructions per cycle, but why not give that measure when comparing?
‘We all simply know that Mac is better’ just doesn’t cut it. In fact, it will turn people away. Blasting BB employees will yield nothing at all. If Macs are better, why aren’t those people in the know about it? It looks like Apple simply dumped the machines in the store, end of story.
Things sell better if the sales person knows and likes the product. Looks like Apple will need to do some education on that front.
If I go into a Best Buy and play with a Mac Mini, I’m going to walk away disappointed. Its going to be slow because Apple shipped them with 256MB of memory. Stupid on Apple’s part because OS X needs 512MB to shine. First impressions mean a lot. Apple should bite the bullet and make 512MB the minimum.
This problem is totally apples fault. The first issue is apple already has its own retail store, anyone who know macs is going to go there and buy a new computer. Secondly, apple should start some training in the retailers such as BB and offer bonuses for sales people who sell the mini. I don’t know about best buy but a lot of stores that used to offer commissions to their sales staff no longer do that, this would be a huge jump for someone who is making 8 bucks an hour, a $25 bonus for selling a mini, would be half a days pay.
Me? I choose to look at the bright side on this. When Best Buy declares the mini a failure, saleswise, I’ll be able to pick up a mini cheap when they close them out. Heck, maybe I’ll get 2.
Hybrid..you just posted on a Mac message board that ‘word of mouth’ is a good way to reach Wintel users.
Duh!
Why do you think Mac users don’t shut up about their computers.. ??
There are more things in your post that are redundant.. I just don’t have time for such idiocy–your advice is to market to PC users.. gee..no shit..
You bring nothing new to the table..
The reason the Mac Mini is not moving at best buy is because THERE IS NO ADVERTISING FOR THE MAC MINI. The iPod sells at best buy because it is well known through ADVERTISING!!!!!!!!!!!! WAKE UP APPLE!!!!!!
mike, you are sounding like a silly fan boy again…
mike pontificates: “The point is the Best Buy guys were overtly slamming the Mac and lying to the customers. “
Where do you get that idea, mike?
I was in Best buy last night and I never got that response from the best buy guy I was talking to.
In fact I have never seen a best buy person slam or lie to any customers about anything. They may not know some things, but they are not slamming or lying as you claim.
And you really think that a Best buy guy convinces people what to buy when they come in? Most people do lots of research before they go buy a megabuck item.
Apple sucks in the marketing of their products in best buy. No advertising, no in-store promotion materials.
And for all those people buying Apple iPods at Best Buy where is that mythical “halo” effect that should be making Best Buy customers grabbing minimacs off the shelf???
Mike, the idea is to INFORM users of other platforms, not give them the impression that the Mac community is, as the cliché goes, closed, haughty and for rich biatches only by shooting off tripe about patchers and the likes. Doing that last thing is not advertising, it’s putting people off. Ask Windows users. Most won’t know Mac, most of those who do regard Apple/Mac as a strange sort of cult, an expensive OS that concentrates on graphic apps. Telling them: ‘you know nothing, fool’, is not selling a single Mac.
Where better than MDN to critisize this strange counter-productive behaviour?
And yeah, it’s weird enough that Apple seems to need to be reminded that they should market outside their own niche, I agree.
Andrew and Dieffenbaker: Re: Quebec
Ha! Gotcha. lol.
The grim reality is that I’m an American (but not for much longer, I hope) living in Quebec. The grimmer reality is that I also think the francophone language police here in Quebec can blow me any time they get hungry. The grimmest reality is that Best Buy did indeed both break the law and fart directly into the nose of the general populace by posting 100% English signage during their Grand Opening last week. They’ll be lucky if they ever get a single customer to buy anything here, let alone a Mac mini. Apple should dump them like the pariah that they have proven themselves to be.
Now then, when are we gonna get that Montreal Apple Store? I wanna go shopping!
panoctopi,
ignorant???? what the hell are you talking about??? It’s ok for Frog Canandians to discriminate against the English language????? Why? Why is always ok for the Frogs, or liberals, or commies to discriminate and sell nukes to Iran etc, but the great old USA is always being dumped on? Unbeliebable!
Well, I have a Mac mini and I’m quite happy with it. I did buy the loaded “ultimate” model at the Apple Store though and not the base model that Best Buy sells. Personally, I don’t care if the Best Buy drones or anyone else likes it or not, it’s a fine little computer for the money, especially when you consider the bundled software that’s included.
I have bought many, many things from Best Buy.
I can honestly say I have never asked a sales associate for an opinion about anything, nor has one ever been offered. In fact, the only interaction I have with one of their associates–and pretty much the only interaction any shopper should have with them–is to ask them to get boxes off the on-top-of-the-display shelve since they don’t like customers climbing their ladders.
That’s pretty much the only function Best Buy sees them as having–oh, and telling people what aisle something might be in–and Best Buy would be very happy to not have them at all, particularly since the computer sales associates probably contribute the largest share of stock shrinkage in the store.
Ok or not, French language commercial signage is the law of the Province, Andrew. You can see from my previous post that I’m not at all sympathetic with it, either. Happily, Macs do French really well, even if Best Buy is too stupid. (so am I, btw .. it’s Spanish and English at my house, eh?) All we need is a bonafide Apple Store to demonstrate those French Macs.
Of course, there’s always the good old trusty EDU outlets:
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This was the exact same problem at Circuit City; they’d sell Mac hardware with no software titles sitting around the corner. Then the sales associates don’t really know anything about computers, so they point to what they think they do know.
I was hopeful that selling minis at BB would work out – after all, several BB employees noted in previous threads that they WERE getting training on Macs (apparently only the geeksquad was getting training on upgrading and the salespersons were ignored). The mini display at my local BB is near the front of the section and it is running 10.4. However, it only has the standard 256MB RAM and usually has so many programs running that it is slow as molasses. The cheapo monitor was not so great. The only software I found near the mini was a student edition of MS Office. I doubt many BB salespeople even know that numerous software programs available at BB are dual-platform, especially the educational titles. If Apple wants to sell in stores like BB, they REALLY NEED to include a demo program on the machine that highlights the Mac’s features and included software. Demo machines should also have 512MB RAM to keep them up to speed since shoppers tend to open every program and bog everything down to a crawl. Finally, they really need to get the stores to carry and set aside a section for Mac software, or at least provide a listing of available dual platform titles.
It is up to Apple to convince people to buy an Apple computer before they go in the store.
When you go shopping for a car, are you clueless as to what you want? You just wander from dealer to dealer going “what kind of cars you got??? Me want one.”
People know basically what they want when they go shop for an item that costs some nice $$$$$$$ – they have 1,2 or 3 choices in mind.
It is up to Apple to convince consumers through advertising and marketing to buy their product.
Apple does not know how to do it.
That is why they built their own stores, advertising does not work in selling apple computers.
I bet 99% of shopper inquiries in the Apple store are from people that already know about Apple products.
Best buy sales associates could not sell earmuffs to Eskimos, they are the most brainless examples of why Apple stopped selling products in other retail stores in the first place. You put one of those Apple employees like CompUSA has in the store and they will sell, also the current employees might get better educated if that is possible.
One of the reasons the stores don’t help employees improve their Mac sales is because of margin, they store does not profit as much from selling a Mac as they do from the machines that cost $1.50 to make, plus without the extra hardware and software, they do not sell enough items-per-sale. I am willing to bet store management is discouraging employees from selling the best computers on the market to keep the stores bottom line up. Put the Mac mini in the store to attract the Mac curious but make the money selling the other stuff once they are in.
“Yeah yeah, attack the messenger, try to throw mud, divert from the issue, it’s the easiest way to stop thinking.”
Hey! I didn’t throw any mud you brainless cocksucker, motherfscker, piece of shit, balloon poppin’, candy stealing, used toilet paper smokin’, somewhat inconsiderate, gas and electric dill weed.
I worked in a Best Buy when I was in college ( in the days of the Mac Performa PPC) During that time, BB carried 2-5 Performa models, monitors, etc. They also had a selection of Mac software. Selling them was an uphill battle, because most buyers were only interested in whatever POS was advertised in the paper with a free printer. My coworkers didn’t know anything about them, and didn’t want to learn, because they knew they could just make people buy a wintel box.
Even with several peripheral choices, and an aisle of Mac software, people weren’t interested. Offering more choices without an Apple rep isn’t going to improve things much.
Lately, I’ve been visiting the lonely Mac Mini’s in the BBs in my area. They have ZERO display materials. I’ve walked passed them in several stores, because the only indication is the shelftag, showing the $499 price. The CPU is usually hidden by a brochure holder for their warranty crap, or just generally poorly displayed. Its almost embarassing.
As much as I wish that it weren’t so, Macs aren’t going to ‘sell themselves’. At this point in time iPods will, but Macs won’t. Relying on people who don’t know their elbows from their a$$holes (Best Buy “salesmen”…) won’t cut it.
This is the primary reason that Apple got into the retail business in the first place: to present the Mac-customer experience in a positive vein. Apple cannot rely on idiots & Wintellians (aren’t they the same thing?) to intelligently inform customers about the Mac and/or Mac-related products. It can’t happen. They are PC bigots and are going to steer a customer to a PC because it’s always going to be the “easy sell”.
I believe that rather than putting Macs in places like BB & Wal-Mart, Apple should open more stores in ‘secondary’ markets. There are plenty of stores in California, Florida and on the East Coast. How about a store in:
Jacksonville, FL
New Orleans, LA
Jackson, MS
Birmingham, AL
Columbia, SC
Little Rock, AR (I know, computers in Arkansas…)
Oklahoma City, OK
Nashville, TN
Lexington, KY
Richmond, VA
Topeka, KS
Lincoln, NE
and many other state capitals that I don’t care to mention right now.
Do we really need to have 40 Apple stores in CA, NY & FL? Just wondering.