Gary Reich has posted a petition on Petition Online, “Apple should bring FireWire back to iPods.” The petition reads:
Dear Apple Computer,
We, as dedicated users and supporter of your hardware and software are completely dismayed at your recent decision to discontinue standard FireWire support for the iPod music player line. As the innovator of FireWire, it seems wholly irrational to remove it from the people who provide the support, promotion and word of mouth “advertising” that provides your company with the millions of “switchers” you want each year, free of charge.
Computers your company manufactured less than a year ago had no USB 2.0 support. We know, go buy the $20.00 adapter cable. It is very unfortunate that you have left your faithful out in the dark on this one and we ask that you put FireWire cables back in iPod packaging.
Sincerely,
The Undersigned
For more info and to sign the petition, click here.
Related MacDailyNews articles:
Apple should include a combo FireWire and USB 2.0 cable in every iPod box – February 24, 2005
Apple knifing its own FireWire baby? Pushes USB 2.0 as iPod family’s primary connectivity option – February 23, 2005
Apple updates ‘iPod photo’ family with new slim 30GB model, debuts new iPod Camera Connector – February 23, 2005
Apple unveils new 6GB iPod mini for $249, 4GB model now priced at just $199 – February 23, 2005
That was fast!
WHAT?!?!?! NO FIREWIRE ON THE NEW iPODS?????
THAT IS STUPID!!!!
Thank God. Hopefully it gets results!
Sign! Sign!
Thank God. Hopefully it gets results!
Sign! Sign!
Never jump to conclusions cheesy, firewire is still there, just have to buy a cable for it now
Better yet, leave all cables out, lower the price, and sell the preferred cable as an extra. Why pay for something you already have? BYOC.
This is the last macdailynews post I’ll ever read. I have been using the site for a year now, and I could see your information degarde day by day. This one is hillarious. get a life.
I like BYOC. Just give us an iPod connector adapter that has a firewire port and a USB port. Duh.
How about BYOKDM for the iPod! Make it a whole lil’ computer there
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Let’s run it down
Mark one for the Shuffle for USB only,
Mark one for the Mini for USB only
Mark one for the iPod special FW option
Mark one for the iPod 20 FW option
and now, the tie breaker… iPod photo….
USB only.
Is USB only on the units Apple wants to make a greater profit on or is there something more (or less) sinister?
I have no penis.
Do not cry : (1)FireWire cable sold separately …
With the way you spell, “Nuno,” I’m surprised you even made it on the internet.
Good bye to another mac idiot zealot head.
“Mark one for the Mini for USB only…”
Kitan K Boodl
The iPod mini is still firewire compatible. You just have to buy the cable alone. Or you could use one that you already have. I have a few – since I already have a few iPods.
it’s all about cost
People, we are finally doing the right things to have in 2007 20-25% share of the pc market, and you are crying for a cable…
It is because most Digital Cameras are USB only, thats why the change, notice the new connectors coming for direct Camera to iPod
Magic Word – MUSIC – How fitting
What’s the big deal??
It would be one thing if Apple stopped supporting firewire connectivity with iPods completely, then I would sign a petition. But that’s not the case, they’ve just stopped including the cable as a standard feature, and for good reason: the majority of iPod buyers (wintel owners) don’t use the cable. If not including a firewire cable that most people will not use allows Apple to lower the cost and sell more units, I have no problem paying $20 bucks for the cable. What’s the big deal? Remember the more iPods Apple sells equals more people using iTunes. It is very important for Apple to remain the leader in this market and cutting costs will help them stay on top. This is a very smart move in my opinion. Get over it. Dump the petition!
A 4GB mini + FireWire still costs $31 less than the same thing did yesterday. Quit whining!
Not including any cable is a BAD idea. The first-time buyer’s user experience would be ruined when s/he gets home with the new several-hundred-dollar toy to find out it needs a special cable that’s not included. (With the current situation, that could still happen to Mac users without the latest and greatest.)
Hey Jones, they only left out the cable that got used least.
The price drop will be great PR to get more users for the platform.
Since the printers I buy don’t come with cables, I’m not too upset at having to buy one. On the other hand, I have 4 Firewire dock cables running around the house now.
This petition is completely irrational. If USB 2.0 handles synching at or near the same speed as Firewire 400, why would you care?
If you have a personal attachement to the Firewire port, then use on of the cables from the 3 previous generation iPods you already own.
Move along.
I don’t think the new iPods have docks, either.
Are they now optional?
I agree, it is about cost. The power supply is now an option too.
It doesn’t come with a FireWire cable, you’ll live. I am a die hard Mac user, and I’m OK with the USB 2.0. If you must have a FireWire cable, than go buy one. For God’s sake what’s the big deal here.
I can see why people are annoyed about this. Macs for years came only with USB1.1, whilst the Windows crowd were given USB2.0. At the time, Apple touted Firewire as the main reason for the omission. So by now including USB2.0 support and having Firewire as an optional extra, Apple are effectively charging their own client base slightly more than Windows users for the same Apple product.
It doesn’t look good, does it.
Dave USB2 isn’t anywhere near firewire. This from my post on another thread
USB2 has a burst max transfer rate of 480. Burst means a very short rush of data. The rest of the time the actual sustained throughput is MUCH slower. Firewire on the other hand is capable of sustained, continuous 400 throughput. Its MUCH MUCH faster and more reliable for transfering large amounts of data, like say 60 gig of photos and/ or music.
The basic iPod connector hasn’t changed. Mac and other firewire users just have to buy a cable. Sorry, but its the same deal with buying a printer. Cable not included. Not that big of a deal for the price, HUGE deal in real life data transfer performance.
For many of us long-time users, this is a bigger deal than some might immediately think.
I suggests a shift away from what many consider to be core-Apple. No pun intended.
Change is good, but this change…?
What a lot of hot air.
If 98% of iPods sell to PC users – that’s 98% of firewire cables go straight in the dustbin… only a couple of weeks ago Apple were being criticised by environmental groups for being wasteful.
Good move Apple!
The new iPods can now connect directly to digital cameras, all of which use USB, not Firewire. The avantages of downloading your memory chips into the iPod on trips is the next big coming in portable media devices. Apple knows this and has beat everyone to the punch. Keeping Apple in the lead is what it’s all about. $20 for an adapter is what most of us pay for a good bottle of wine or a case of beer. I’ll miss Firewire, but what a brilliant move Apple!
No FiyaWiya no buya lah … but what do you care, you got the Windoze market, right?
Personally I think it makes sense to only include one cable in the box.
But they should have an option to buy one with a FireWire cable or with a USB cable.
Having them all ship with USB sucks.
Alternatively, they could get rid of the cable completely, as has been suggested, and let people buy their own.
But are these standard cables, or the proprietary ones?
I still have a gen 1 iPod, so I have a fine and decent real proper firewire port. It doesn’t directly affect me, but I don’t like that Mac users are being screwed in favour of windows users.
I can see why Apple dropped the cable from a business standpoint but this involves symbolism that goes beyond a short term look at the bottom line. The cable probably costs them less than 5 dollars. Apple should take care of the faithful and not alienate their core user base. Including a cable is a small price to pay.
Also they should include it for all the iPod buyers who will be buying a Mac in the future.
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The new 4GB mini lacks both the FireWire cable and the charger:
New iPod mini 4GB: $199
Charger: $29
FireWire cable: $19
—-
Total: $247
Old iPod mini 4GB: $249
This is nothing but a cleaver way to make it look cheaper…
Come on people. This isn’t a big deal. Just about every Mac user already owns an iPod which means they already have a firewall cable they can use with any new model. Apple knows that so they made a smart move here.
What I said in the Board of Directors Meeting:
Who cares? They’re Mac users. They’re used to being charged more because they’re Mac users. so we’ll do it to them, too. We’ll make USB 2.0 standard – we have to accommodate our Wintel PC users who are buying the most iPods. Charge the Mac minority an extra $20 for the FireWire cable – they’ll pay it without a whimper. Oh, we invented FireWire? Must have been while I “was away.” Listen, nobody will notice that we’re mistreating Mac users and charging them extra to use the standard and superior built-in FireWire connectivity that we sold them. The Mac users will just pay it. We must consider the needs of our Wintel PC iPod buyers first and foremost.
USB is the one cable that CAN work with older and newer Macs alike.
Older Macs will get slower USB 1 speed, but at least with USB you’ve got a way to transfer data to/from ANY Mac. Not to mention the many PCs that lack Firewire.
It makes sense to ship one cable, with others optional. How many iPod competitors include both? And it makes sense to choose USB2 even though it’s slower.
And since USB IS slower in real-world use, and doesn’t work with camcorders, Firewire is ALSO here to stay.
Apple should ship only the Firewire cable. Force the PC world to either buy their own cable or upgrade their system – something they will thank you for later on. Pushing people along towards the technological future will eliminate all the old, outdated technologies (ex – floppy disks) people will whine about it now but be happy later when they realize that they were being convinced to be satisfied with inferior products.
What happens when there is no demand for Firewire? PC manufacturers will stop putting them into computer, Firewire will be lost, and we will see another example of how progress was limited because people were afraid of change (ex – why don’t we in the U.S. use the metric system?)
It’s not about the practicality or costliness of shipping only one cable, it’s about the philosophy that Apple has chosen in this situation that is of the most concern.
Apple pioneered the Apple Desktop Bus (ADB)!! It’s a CRIME that they no longer offer ADB on the new Macs!!! Standards? BAH! Lower prices? UGH! Market share?!? Oh PLEASE. Come on Apple stop KNIFING THE BABY!!!! If I buy one of these newfangled Mac minis, what am I supposed to do with my perfectly functional ADB keyboard and mouse, you freaks?
ADB! ADB! ADB!
(Apple didn’t remove FireWire, you total reactionaries. They only stopped including a FireWire cable. You need to rename your site “MacDaily” because I can’t find any “News” on it. Infotainment, maybe.)
What Apple should have done was keep both USB and FireWire cables out of the box and ask the customer which cable they needed at purchase, instead of forcing Mac users to pay the extra $20 bucks because they don’t have USB 2.0 on their Mac, which the majority of Macs out there don’t have. PC user could just as easily buy a $20 FireWire card and expand their PC since that is what they like about their PC in the first place!
The point about this all is this: Apple is making Mac (Firewire) users pay more for the iPod mini and iPod photo by making them USB2 by default.
I, and I am sure most others, have no issues with USB2 per se – but we do get rubbed up the wrong way when Apple makes us pay more to buy a cable when we are using Apple tech., namely Firewire.
Choose your cable – OK.
Everyone buys a separate cable – OK, but a bit mean.
Only Mac (Firewire) users buy separate cable – not cool Apple. And not likely to be popular amongs Mac users, Doh!
I’ve been thinking about using USB to connect my 3rd generation iPod to my 17″ PowerBook as I prefer to leave my iSight plugged in. After the initial time to load the iPod it doens’t take long to update – I leave it plugged in much longer to charge it. USB is no biggie and it frees up my Firewire for the camera.
Just a thought…
When purchasing my 3rd gen iPods – USB 2.0 cable was available within the warranty period.
Conceivably – people who purchase a new iPod and request a firewire cable from Apple might be able to get it for free.
Maybe the policy has merely been (quietly) switched.
Play on the word (switch).
The fewer impediments to getting folks to try out Apple products, the more likelihood of switching to OS-X.
If you buy a new iPod photo, which I am going to, you have to buy the dock seperate anyway and with the dock you get the Firewire cable.
personally I’d just add a dock anyway – I do think the USB 2.0 standard is a good move to help keep the iPod the market leader. sure we feel a little burned on the firewire thing, but hey, it will be worth it in the long run. another option is to add a USB 2.0 PCI card, you can pick one up for about twenty bucks and add even more functionality to your mac. And the mini will charge itself through USB 2.0 or firewire right (without the dock)? so what is this talk of a “charger”? I assume this means the power adapter? I’ve only used mine a handful of times with my G2 iPod, now I have a laptop that goes most places anyhow and I plug my iPod into it to recharge. There are a ton of accessorize out there as well – Griffin offers a FW 800 Dock Connector to Firewire cable for $14.00.
Only Mac users have to buy a FW cable???
No, they don’t. They can use the USB2 cable just like PC users.
And they have an option many PC owners don’t have: buy a FW cable for even faster speed, if they care.
I for one don’t. Only the FIRST synch of an iPod is THAT big.
I think Apple’s move, as much as it may be a little sad from the technology and Apple fan point of view, is the right one. USB2 will not give a user a noticeably inferior user experience than Firewire. If the objective is to use the iPod as a trojan horse to get people to buy Macs, then they have to make the decisions that are going to help them sell more iPods.
Most iPod competitors don’t have a dock, so they made the dock optional. Most iPod users rarely or never use an AC adapter, so they made the AC adapter optional. Most iPod users don’t have Firewire ports but do have USB1/2 ports, so they made the Firewire cable optional. By dropping the AC adapter and FW cable, they were able to drop the price of the 4GB iPod mini by $50US and release the 6GB iPod mini at the same price as the 4GB model was previously.
At $199US, and with the longer 18 hour battery life, the new iPod mini is going to completely destroy what is left of the competition and Apple is going to attract even more Windows users to Apple’s products, and eventually the Mac and Mac OS X. I’d gladly pay $19 with my next iPod to help Apple achieve that, but since I already have USB2 on my PowerBook, and a couple of spare Firewire cables with my previous iPods, I won’t have to.
If Firewire is superior to USB2, then one would expect it to cost more. $19 is not worth wasting my time putting my name on a petition, but hey, if you are that pissed at the situation, all the power to you, sign the petition. Just be aware that you are putting your personal preference of Firewire vs. USB2 ahead of the success of the iPod and of Apple.
—
Magic word: place. “The iPod will continue to be in first place for the foreseeable future.”
Most people here still don’t get it. Most Macs out there don’t have usb2. usb1 is too gd slow. So don’t even tell me I can uses usb1. Also, my imac is less than 2 years old (no usb2) and it has no way to upgrade. If I’m buying a new ipod the firewire cable is required. So it costs me, a faithful mac user, $20 more than the typical pc user. This could have been avoided if Apple jumped on the usb2 train when it arrived. Ironically, they were holding off on putting in usb2 to help firewire.
Simple put… The iPod is for the usb world.
as far as i can tell, none of the Docks ship with any cables. So you can’t save on the FW cable costs by buying a dock.
My 3G 20 GB iPod came with: FW cable, remote, dock, black carrying case, black sleeve/pouch, charger.
New iPods come with: USB cable, charger (except for the mini).
i really think the 3G’s were the peak in terms of bundled value. The poorer battery life is the only consideration against.
I think not including the firewire cable makes sense. From a pratical perspective, those that have firewire either already have a firewire cable or know they’ll need one so the whole argument of first time buyers being disappointed when they find they need a firewire cable is moot, since, most of”those” buyers almost certainly won’t have a firewire port anyway.
darknite’s comment on printers not coming with cables doesn’t neccessarily apply, but is a good analogy with respect to the waste aspect since you most likely buy printers more often than iPods (yes there are exceptions) you usualy won’t need a new cable everytime. So it definately is less wasteful in that sense. What may be better but probably harder to implement (can be incomvinient) is if the iPod did NOT come wityh either cable, and at the cash they provide your choice of either FW or USB cable. (something much easier to imlement at the online store), but which at a physical store could lead to , problems if they run out of cable.
anyways, even though it is unfortunate that the FW cable isn’t included, I, a Mac user with only 1.1 USB ports can understand why they’re doing it.
What a bunch of cry babies. The 4 GB iPod was 249.00 Now it is 50.00 cheaper and you bitch about no firewire cable? BUY ONE YOU CHEAP PEOPLE! Or better yet, Apple, just raise the 4 Gb back to 249.00 and raise the 6 GB to 299.00, and include the firewire cable these babies need. They know not how to order what they need/want.
Not everyone wants firewire, and on the PC side most do not even have it, so they need to buy the USB cable. Macs have firewire and usb, so they fill everyones needs and still leave the option for firewire if needed.
I know, I know…. screw the PC people…. well, that is a bad attitude when you are trying to sell them products too.
Everyone…. start flaming the Dude!
I will add that this Dude is an Apple certified laptop/desktop technician… not some PC troll.
The Dude abides.
This is pathetic.
The new ipods can still use firewire and the dock if you want to buy one of those.
Fact is most ipods are sold to Windows users and USB 2 is more likely to be on those machines than Firewire will be.
For older macs with only USB 1, either buy a FW cable (if you don’t already have one – I do) or a USB 2 adaptor if it is available.
To ensure the survival of Macs etc, Apple can’t really be worrying about giving full interoperability of new products for legacy machine, even if they are only a few months old.
There are bigger fish to fry ie M$, Intel and Dell. These updates boost the marketability of the ipods and that is what is important.
I started thinking about the iPod use in my house. A dock came with 2 of the 4 iPods our family owns. The docks have never been used. The iPods came out of the box, into a sleeve, and wouldn’t fit in the dock after that. The AC adapter, well, one of them, is hooked up, but doesn’t get used that much. The other three are in the boxes with the docks
Apple was right about people playing on shuffle, maybe they are dead on about what add-ins are being used as well, and making cost saving adjustments based on those findings.
I really cannot find any reason to complain that docks and ac adapters don’t come with the new iPods. A firewire cable is cheap enough that it doesn’t matter.
Still, the irony that mac users are being bitten by Apple (of all companies) over the 2% market share myth is really frustrating
Dude and Neil,
the point is, why should those with firewire only, which is most mac users, have to buy a cable that USB 2 users get included free? most macs don’t have USB 2, it’s only been offered on the most recent models for a little over a year…
apple should allow us to trade our unwanted USB 2 cables for the Firewire Cable
Why the half measure, if the idea is to lower the cost of iPod products – then remove BOTH cables.
Offer ALL models with no cables (zero) .
Have the customer purchase which is appropriate for their needs ON purchase of the iPod product. The retailers/orderhouses will either be efficient with their supplies, or lose out to those that are.
Maybe what’s bothering the Mac customers – or atleast those that prefer FireWire – is that they still must pay for the included USB2 cable – that they CHOOSE not to use (or CAN’T use), and then have to pay EXTRA to use their CHOICE (or ONLY option) of a FireWire cable.
How many here enjoyed buying a USB cable for their inkjet printers, when a serial/parallel cable was INCLUDED in the price? Exactly!
This is inefficient. Remove both cables.
What Apple did makes a tremendous amount of business sense, and is in line with Apple KNOWING what the majority of consumers REALLY NEED, making an option ( or eliminating) what only the minority of powerusers want, and PILING ON THE REALLY COOL FEATURES that have made iPod the KING for EVERYONE . Like the Mac Mini. We GOT monitors! Gimme OS X in a box for$499!!
When I recently bought an iPod U2 SE, I was very surprised to see BOTH flavors of cable. I wondered how long THAT would go on.
That being said I feel for the Mac owner who is not tech savvy and plugs his new iPod into an older (USB 1) Mac and gets the slower connection.
You say “Buy the firewire cable you cheap-o!!”. Well, I’ll bet that the majority of Mac owners don’t KNOW what firewire is, or weren’t TOLD by a salesperson that he will have to get a firewire cable to get the speeds he needs. Another trip to the store, or having to call a catalog for more merch and shipping costs. It burns a lot of buyers to have to buy MORE to make something work as expected, or as the advertising has suggested. I don’t know about you, but when I get home with a new gadget I RIP the box apart and want to use it NOW. Otherwise it’s like being told your wedding nite has been postponed. Your bride will be there in 7-10 days (with UPS Ground Shipping), or overnight with Fedex ( $35 extra).
Years ago when the cable thing became an issue, I groaned when I found out I needed that SPECIAL USB cable to make it go to make my new printer run. It wasn’t about the MONEY, it was about the experience.
I have had many friends who have gotten their printer/ scanner/ whatever and feeling perturbed about the extra time and/or money. NOT realizing what a great value they were getting. They had nothing to compare the experience to, because they were new.
So often we forget that we LIVE this stuff and can make the proper judgements,and ask the right questions based on experience, and realizing it isn’t bad at all. The newbie doesn’t. They’re clueless and feel jerked around.
david vesey
The Dude, etal.,
I think the ‘crybabies’ are upset that for the same $249 that WinFolks pay, MacFolks don’t get a cable. MacFolks – who mostly have FireWire – pay $269.
And as has been mentioned already – a FireWire PCI card is worth $20 retail, a FireWire ‘cable’ is not WORTH $20 retail.
BTW, ‘Baje’ (above my 1st post) makes a very valid point.
Some folks are bringing up a very valid point here, but are getting shouted down by name-callers. Oh well, life isn’t fair.
After all 89% of people that use a computer, use Windows!
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This is idiotic.
Apple is not including a FireWire cable – the iPods still support FireWire.
Not including the cable was obviously a cost reduction move, since Apple probably knows that the majority of these cables simply get tossed away by FireWire-less Windows users. So Apple should include a cable with every iPod that only 25% of less of iPod owners would use? Not only does it not make any economic sense, all those tossed-away cables have a huge environmental cost (there is an environmental cost to manufacturing, too).
If you think FireWire is superior (which it is, actually), then go and buy that $20 cable on your own. Or if you’re that cheap, stick with the bundled USB 2.0 cable. Or if you’re that insulted because Apple can’t cater to your every whim for economic and environmental reasons, don’t buy the new iPods if you think they don’t represent enough “value.”
Golly, it never ceases to amaze me how whiny and privileged some members of the Mac community are. Whine that Apple stopped bundling a cheapo case. Whine about Apple no longer bundling a dock with certain iPods. Whine about Apple changing the dock connector. It’s always whine whine whine, even though Apple has just introduced a much better product for the same price or much less than before.
NewType
it is not that anyone thinks Apple doesn’t have the right to carry out these cost cutting measures, it is just that the top of the line iPod used to come with a lot of stuff it now does not. While each individual accessory is not a big deal there is something nice about unpacking the box and having everything you need right there. Apple has always been about a higher quality experience, and i think people are just worried about that ethos being abandoned for mass appeal.
Also, no iPod comes with a dock any longer.
NewThink Different…
If you’re a WinOwner and you don’t want to buy a $20 FireWire card, then that’s okay – Apple will coddle you.
If you’re a MacUser and you don’t want to buy a $20 FireWire cable, then you’re a whining crybaby.
I understand now, thanks.
MacBuddy,
Apple tried the other tactic with its first iPod for Windows. It forced Windows users to buy a FireWire card because that iPod ONLY supported FireWire. It’s funny that there was some grumbling from the Windows side about Apple forcing users to buy a FireWire card, but there was no whining. Windows users were more than happy to be able to use the iPod.
It’s clear that a vast majority of iPod buyers don’t use FireWire now, whereas all Macs have USB and FireWire, and all new Macs have USB 2.0 support. This is clearly and economic and envionmentally-beneficial decision. The iPod will still work out of the box for 99% of potential buyers, with or without FireWire.
If FireWire is that important, then it is worth the extra $20 for a cable. So Apple should manufacture 100 cables, knowing that only 10 or 20 of those cables will get used and 80 or 90 will get tossed in the trash? That’s irresponsible. That’s putting one’s emotional needs above the greater good.
And yes, it is whining because the new iPod still support FireWire. The new iPod Photos are also $150 cheaper than the old iPod Photos. If the bundled FireWire cable is so important, buy an old 40 GB B&W model while you still can. If you think Apple is ripping you off because they didn’t include a $20 cable while cutting the price $150, then yeah, that’s being a crybaby.
http://www.sendstation.com/us/products/pd_fw.html
for those of you with a ton of existing firewire cables and accessories. It’s really too bad that Apple obviously can’t do anything right, right? I mean we want them to aggressively pursue other markets, gain a foothold on the wintel group and yet still be “Apple” – aw to hell with them, I feel screwed too and I haven’t even bought one yet – let’s all move over to a Zen or something, that’ll show ’em. Apple’s fanatic user base (myself included) can really be a drawback – I mean when was the last time someone petitioned Sony or M$ or any other high tech co. to add/change/fix anything? Much less have thread after thread of arguments over the petition?
sheesh – if everybody ain’t happy ain’t nobody happy, eh?
Don’t people keep all the paraphenalia that came with their iPods considering the RESALE value of doing so.
If ‘I’ throw out my never-to-be-used USB2 cable, then I can ONLY sell my used iPod to a FireWire owner! That’s dumb.
89% of computer owners apparently use USB2.
This logic should extend to keeping BOTH cables, no?
And Apple – in an effort to reduce costs – should NOT include either cable.
“Don’t people keep all the paraphenalia that came with their iPods considering the RESALE value of doing so.”
No. Most people quickly lose track of stuff they don’t use or need. Most people don’t even keep the original boxes. Only a few people keep everything stored away with a resale in mind.
And very few people will keep a cable around they don’t use for the 3-5 years they might keep that iPod. How many unused cables from electronic equipment you bought 5 years ago do you have lying around?
“And Apple – in an effort to reduce costs – should NOT include either cable.”
This is silly. This is the equivalent of arguing that Apple should not include a power cable with their Macs. The reason they decided to bundle a USB cable is that both Mac and Windows users will still be able to use the iPod out of the box, whereas you can’t guarantee that if you bundled just a FireWire cable. You’re arguing that Apple should inconvenience 100% of users just because you feel punished by Apple unbundling the FireWire cable. That’s an emotional response, not a rational one.
And the economic and environmental impact of bundling just one cable instead of two are significant.
Apple sold 4.6 million iPods last quarter. That’s 4.6 million FireWire cables. If only 20% of those cables are being used, that means that 3.68 million cables were tossed out in one quarter alone. Apple is expected to sell up to 15 million non-Shuffle iPods in 2005, so you’re arguing that Apple should manufacture and bundle 15 million FireWire cables knowing that 12 million or more will get thrown away. That’s a lot of energy and materials to manufacture and ship 12 million cables that will mostly end up in a trash heap somewhere.
Tell me how that makes sense, as opposed to making the small minority that insists on FireWire spend $20 for their beloved cable.
I have a 2nd gen iPod for my PowerBook G4. I’m thinking about finally replacing it. And when I do buy a new iPod, I will definitely be one of the ones who will spend that extra $20 to buy a FireWire cable. Because you know what? I feel better knowing that Apple made the right decision based on environmental reasons alone, never mind the economic ones (I’m also own several hundred shares of Apple stock).
If things swing the other way, and the vast majority of iPod buyers 3 years from now have FireWire, I’m sure Apple would make the same kind of decision.
The fact is that USB2 is NOT as fast as Firewire at data transfer.
This fact is reflected in the movie industry – they do not use USB2 to transfer large amounts of data – they use Firewire – period.
I understand the USB2 thing, with USB nearly a standard on consumer pcs BUT this is a backward move for Apple.
The movie industry will not adopt USB2 to transfer large files.
This is Apple treating Mac owners as second class citizens. That’s the disturbing part. It doesn’t affect me personally, I have an iPod with firewire cable. But in the last couple of years, I’ve talked a few people over to macs and they don’t have iPods yet. In fact, I just told my nephew last week to hold off on an iPod until later this month. Now if he goes and buys an iPod, he’ll have to cough up another $20 he wouldn’t have had to if he had stuck with a pc. 2 years ago, no mac shipped with usb2. ibook, powerbook, imac switched to usb2 in the fall of 2003, less than a year and a half ago. The emac switched over less than a year ago. I think that “Steve Jobs” said succinctly above (11:51 am post).
Given that Macs are solid performers for at least 3 years, to me, it makes sense to make this move, but not for another year. Or have some sort of trade program.
The 4:45pm silly posting was not made by me.
However, I can now respond to it.
But, 1st, perhaps the 4:45pm ‘version’ of MacBuddy could re-read my 2:59pm posting.
As to these comments…
[No. Most people quickly lose track of stuff they don’t use or need. Most people don’t even keep the original boxes. Only a few people keep everything stored away with a resale in mind.]
Talk about waste. Only a trifle of thought would save resources and ADD value.
[And very few people will keep a cable around they don’t use for the 3-5 years they might keep that iPod. How many unused cables from electronic equipment you bought 5 years ago do you have lying around?]
None. When a device becomes broken, I throw it and all calbes away. I am not a packrat, hoping that I can still use my ‘extra’ cable from my original Nintendo – like some people.
[“And Apple – in an effort to reduce costs – should NOT include either cable.”
This is silly. This is the equivalent of arguing that Apple should not include a power cable with their Macs.]
Uh no, what is silly is insisting you understand what you are talking about. ALL Macs need power supplies, not ALL iPod users need FireWire. Some need USB2.
[The reason they decided to bundle a USB cable is that both Mac and Windows users will still be able to use the iPod out of the box, whereas you can’t guarantee that if you bundled just a FireWire cable.]
If you care to re-read my posts, you’ll discover that I NEVER said Apple should remove ONLY the USB2 cable. I have said SEVERAL times on this and other threads that Apple should remove BOTH cables. The customer can CHOOSE which is appropriate AT purchase.
Further, ONLY people that have bought Macs during the last year (?) with be able to use USB2 cables with their iPods OUT-OF-THE-BOX.
My wife’s iMac and my eMac turn us into crybabies unwilling to shell out $20.
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[You’re arguing that Apple should inconvenience 100% of users]
Yeah, just like McDonald’s inconveniences their customers at purchase. “Will that be ketchup or vinegar?” “I’ll have vinegar?” “Most people want ketchup, vinegar is extra!”
[just because you feel punished by Apple unbundling the FireWire cable.]
I don’t ‘so-called’ FEEL punished, however I THINK that Apple is now inconveniencing a ‘different’ group of people.
[That’s an emotional response, not a rational one.]
Just because ‘you’ FEEL my response is ’emotional’, doesn’t mean it is. You should try to reconcile the differences between feelings and thinking.
[And the economic and environmental impact of bundling just one cable instead of two are significant.]
Have your friends park their Escalade and their Hemi’s for a week before you chastise me about tossing $5 ‘worth’ of cable.
[…so you’re arguing that Apple should manufacture and bundle 15 million FireWire cables knowing that 12 million or more will get thrown away.]
Again, I’ve suggested that Apple include no cables. Then customers can CHOOSE which is appropriate AT purchase. I’m not sure why this concept is so difficult for you to comprehend.
[That’s a lot of energy and materials to manufacture and ship 12 million cables that will mostly end up in a trash heap somewhere.]
So Apple should manufacture and bundle 15 million USB2 cables knowing that 3 million or more will get thrown away?
Again, The customer can CHOOSE which is appropriate AT purchase. No waste.
[Tell me how that makes sense, as opposed to making the small minority that insists on FireWire spend $20]
Your plan – ONLY ‘broke’ or ‘cheap’ crybabies suffer. (Funny that Macs are supposedly more expensive, yet Mac Buyers are broke or cheap!?) Anyway…
My plan – EVERYONE gets to CHOOSE.
And further, why not make the small minority just switch to a WinPC? Wouldn’t that prevent all those Macs from ending up in a landfill?
[for their beloved cable.]
Beloved cable? You really said that? Sounds like emotionally-charged language to me.
[…I will definitely be one of the ones who will spend that extra $20 to buy a FireWire cable.]
Again, you will have no ‘choice’ if you intend to continue being a FireWire user.
[Because you know what? I feel better knowing that Apple made the right decision based on environmental reasons alone, never mind the economic ones]
I think you are cheerleading for Apple no matter what their decisions, even THIS bad one.
[(I’m (I?) also own several hundred shares of Apple stock).]
Are you on the BoD? If you are then you should be reconsidering this bad move, as opposed to trying to convince others – who are skeptical of THIS move – by posting on a forum.
[If things swing the other way, and the vast majority of iPod buyers 3 years from now have FireWire, I’m sure Apple would make the same kind of decision.]
But what then for the ‘future’ crybaby USB2 users? Will you be there to champion them then. Your attitude suggests not.
I think Apple should remove all cable in-box. You don’t.
<This machine will not communicate> <End Transmission>
When bluetooth shows up in the next version, who cares.
BTW, I don’t care now. The ipod is not a HDD – you don’t need it connected 24/7 – plug it in, sync – unplug – what is everyone so upset about? I already have way too many extra USB & firewire cables laying around.
Why didn’t Apple just throw in the cable with both the FireWire/USB combo? That way its only one cable, and it pleases everybody. There would be a little more desktop clutter, consequently. Do you really think it’d be cheaper this way rather than having two seperate cables?
Where has the petition gone???
It looks like http://www.petitiononline.com has gone down.
well, all the current macs have usb2.0 so what’s the big deal. When camcorders start shipping with usb2.0. Firewire will be dead. Remember it was Sony that popularized Firewire. It was all but dead until Sony began using it for camcorders and Apple decided to install it as standard to market iMovie.
While coming up with a sane response to Apple regarding the recent iPod decision, I poked out this. Read it thru’ – you may actually approve
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–
It’s been suggested that 80% of iPod owners are throwing out their FireWire cables. That would mean that 20% of iPod owners are throwing out their USB-2 cables.
The public are being told that Apple is reducing costs and passing on the savings to it’s iPod customers by not including the less ‘popular’ FireWire cable.
Some folks have suggested, that Apple reduce the ‘cost’ a further $20. They think that this massive waste could be ended if customers could choose which is appropriate at the point of purchase. (Thinking, an outfit like BestBuy or FutureShop will acknowledge that most of their customers will need the USB-2 cable and correctly manage to have supplies that cover those customers. Conversely thinking, a Mac retailer will acknowledge that most of their customers will need the FireWire cable and correctly manage to have supplies that cover those customers.)
Many feel that as a consumer product – leaving out a connectivity cable would inconvenience ALL iPod customers.
I think that the difficulty that some of your Apple iPod customers (20%?) are having reconciling this decision, is that they are ALSO your Apple Mac customers. The delemma they see – is this is a decision that negatively effects their (Apple) computer product, not positively effects a consumer product – even an Apple one.
Leaving out the (superior, Apple) FireWire cable now – in favor of the USB-2 cable might be prudent IF most Mac users had USB-2. Currently, most don’t. This probably would have been a non-issue if Apple had chosen to do this particular change 12-18 months from now.
As for today, do you think that a ‘FireWire-for-USB2-Cable-Walk-in-and-Trade-in’ program would work for your Mac customers that are also your iPod customers?
MacBuddy does a darn good job of laying out all the arguments in a rational fashion, I don’t see how it can be improved on.
That being said, it depends on how you weigh the various arguments that affect the various consumers of iPods. From Newbie to the guys who’s on his third one.
We have 5 ipods in our house for the us parents and the kids, and I have a pile of cables so high Sir Edmund Hillary couldn’t climb it. I can muddle my way thru anything, or ask all the right questions.
My concern is with the newbie or Switcher. Considering that the G5’s were the FIRST Macs with USB2 there is a good chance that the Switcher will NOT get the cable that maximizes the throughput available if they haven’t gotten the Firewire cable. Considering that their “OLD” G4 won’t have USB 2 installed.
This bugs me.
I just switched someone yesterday, and while they are VERY excited about the Apple experience I have seen switchers ready at a moments notice to criticize Apple, even if they are mistaken. All these years of dissing Apple and finally they switch. They want the experience to be perfect. They find fault quickly.
I used to wonder about RAM this way. We all know that Apple doesn’t sell their boxes with QUITE enough ram. How many complaints and perceptions about speed could be quieted by including 512mb instead 256mb?
That extra Ram really speeds things up. I understand why Apple does it. But how much money is GAINED by having the buyer pay more after they buy the ‘stock’ box vs. sales lost in the future caused by speed complaints.
Every point listed by MacBuddy is valid. I just want to to throw in the idea that the uneducated Switcher can have the experience soured a bit by what appears to be a ‘cheap’ move after a quality product has been bought.
As far as the ‘cable waste’ argument, well, Apple always seems to include a delightfully wasteful amount of luxury packaging with every Apple product. Some of it serves as nice storage. And I have NO idea how much it costs to produce, ship, and store the packaging that almost certainly is thrown out after purchase. Don’t you think?
I’d be curious to see a comparison. And not just of production, but ALL the costs involved with swank packaging. I don’t recall ANYONE EVER complaining about the “tiffany level” Apple packaging.
david vesey
Thanks David for getting my ‘point’
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Also, I agree with your notion that Apple could kill all ‘whining’ about Macs being ‘slow’ if they were to provide their customers with adequate RAM – as apposed to providing any after-marketers with potential revenue.
Besides Apple could get the extra RAM from those guys, instead of the high-priced outfit that they currently patron!
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MacUsers have already paid ‘loads and loads’ more than PCers, why not add – what – 49 bucks to the price of all Macs and nuke the “Macs are slow” myth – instantly.