Tech stocks climb as Bush wins re-election

219 Comments

“Technology stocks surged Wednesday after President George W. Bush won re-election, as investors welcomed a decisive outcome and placed bets that the tech marketplace will improve during a second Bush term,” Chris Kraeuter reports for CBS MarketWatch.

“Among bellwether tech issues, Apple Computer (AAPL), rose $1.81 to a new four-year high of $55.28, Microsoft (MSFT) added 28 cents to reach $28.53, Dell (DELL) rose 79 cents to $36.41 and Cisco Systems (CSCO) climbed 22 cents to $19.51,” Kraeuter reports. “Those companies, along with most of the sector, may be poised for an enduring moderate recovery after enduring the worst spending downturn in a generation during Bush’s first term.”

Full article here.

219 Comments

  4. I don’t get it, but I’m starting to realise I just don’t understand the American way of thinking. At least this time there is a conclusive result one way or another.

    Congrats to all the Republicans on the board. I just hope your man delivers on the trust you’ve put in him.

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  8. Have fun up north. I hear the weather is beautiful this time of year.

    You want to stop by Alec Baldwin’s place on the way? He and his friends might need a lift.

    BTW, God bless you Kerry for sparing us the legal circus.

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  10. I’m with Dave H on this. It’s completely baffling. The majority of Bush voters I’ve seen interviewed didn’t give any coherent reasons.

    But at least it’s a proper win this time. With the popular vote and the no apparent rigging. So you’ve only yourselves to blame when he appoints a load of born again God bothering nutcases to positions where they can ride rough-shod over your constitution. Don’t say we didn’t warn you.

    Best of luck. You’ll need it (and so will we).

    And don’t forget. Be Afraid! Because Paranoia is Patriotic.

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  11. I can understand why you’all free safe. At least as safe as the French and Germans did when they had a short leader who felt he was guided by a higher force and was in charge of the world’s strongest army. Of course, I believe Napoleon and Hitler led their respective countries to their downfall. It amazes me how many civil liberties the American people have willingly lost over the last 3 years all in the name of ‘safety’. Of course, I am one of those crazy and disturbed Canadians who believes in free healthcare and that invading innocent countries is wrong. Show a booby on TV during the Superbowl and America cries out, mislead the world, act against the UN, bomb an innocent country with no weapons to defend it and America will re-elect you. Nuts!

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  12. Is it really over?

    Didn’t Gore conceed as well and take it back?

    Didn’t Edwards say he will fight if Kerry did not win?

    If Edwards lost both the vice presidency and his seat as a senator, is that a good thing? Won’t he start chasing doctors out of NC again?

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  15. Im a Canuck, and I don’t know too much about the politics down south. But a country as powerful as the states having someone like bush running it scares the shit out of us up here, and I believe I speak for the majority, (well that I’ve talked to at least ” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”smile” style=”border:0;” /> Lets hope George W has a good run this time. It effects the world guys. Not just the USA.

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  20. DaveH. Bush won because of morale issues. You see, in the US same sex marriage and abortion are more of a morale issue than going to a pointless war and killing for nothing.
    Even if you tried hard, you won’t understand it.
    Welcome to Canada.
    Evangelist may not like it over here. We allow same sex union and we allow pot. Though guns aren’t something we use that often.
    Also, we’re not at war with anyone.

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  22. The beautiful thing about this election is that all the Republicans are going to get what they deserve in the next four years. Many liberals and free thinkers will now flee the country, and the Republicans will be happy about it! In the next four years, noone will dare speak out against this regime – look what happened to those who did in the last four years. The deficit will continue to skyrocket which, by the way, plays right into Al Queda’s plans. America will be hated more than ever internationally. Fear and anger in this country will rule the roost. More civil liberties will be taken away. Lying to the American people will be tolerated (we voted yes on that issue). We will never see a positive campaign again (Bush has proved what works – negative ads that provoke fear). There will be no accountability in the government. Ah yes, the next four years will be wonderful.

    You’ve made your bed Republicans, now you get to sleep in it. Sweet dreams…

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  23. and WHAT, if anything about Bush being re-elected would make tech stocks go up?

    Isn’t it just as possible that they were reacting to the end of the contest, regardless of winner ?

    This is nothing more than conjecture on someon’s part, who’s only goal is to give the impression that Bush’s re-election is a good thing.

    IF Kerry had won, and the same headline appeared, everyone would be just as gleeful.

    Americans need to learn how to read the news, and try to figure out what it REALLY means… God knows your not getting the plain, un-varnished truth from TV.

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  25. It’s a mad mad mad mad mad world when Microsoft and George Bush rule when they obviously are inferior products.

    Oh well, I guess we can hope Microsoft gets their security act together and hope that George will not screw the pooch for America. We are majorly in debt folks with a spendthrift in power with an trickle down voodoo economic model that has been proven not to work, stuck in a sidetrack war based on faulty intelligence with poorly laid plans to win the peace, increasingly isolating ourselves from the world community, and meanwhile trashing the environment and losing jobs at home. If God really is whispering in George’s ear I hope he starts giving better advice.

    Well, it is over though and I really do sincerely hope that George gets his act together and that I don’t have a chance to say I told you so. For the sake of America and the world.

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  28. Humourous Shaun, you would say going to war made America a free country. While Kerry was off actually fighting a war, Bush was pulling National Guard duty (or not). Yet, somehow, Bush is seen as the stronger of the two?

    Four types of people in the world, those who are right and know it, those who are right but think they are wrong, those who are wrong and know it, and worst of all, those who are wrong but think they are right. Bush clearly falls into this last category.

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  29. It’s over. Thank God. That’s what the Stocks are reacting to, not necessarily Bush or Kerry. I voted for Bush in a predominantly Kerry state, but no matter. It was my vote and my choice. In the long run, the world will continue to spin on it’s axis, There will be no police state, no liberals being cast in to prisions or night raids on Michael Moore’s house to make him vanish down the Memory Hole. c’mon people, comparing President Bush to Hitler? Please read your history lessons again and tell me who condemed 6 million to their deaths, and who liberated an oppressed nation. Regardless of WMDs, Iraq can be looked at from a purely humanitarian angle, and it must be deemed a success. (They’re likely to find over a million bodies in mass burials thanks to Saddam’s regime.)

    Life goes on, and so too will yours. The next 4 years are no guarantee that everything will go swimmingly for President Bush, but I think we’ll have to wait and see, and let history be the true judge of his time in office.

    As for those looking to leave the states, I hate to see you go, but no one’s ever stopped you in the first place. You have many rights when you live here, but you also have the right to leave if you so choose. Think long and hard about this, or if you’re making empty threats, then just stop with the ranting.

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  30. Please leave libs. Don’t let the door hit you on the way out! You idiots don’t get it. Iraq will be a better, more safe country. It will take time. You libs would rather have Saddam there wheeling and dealing with the French, Germans, Russian, Chinese. Get sanctions lifted and give terrorists wmds. All while torturing and murdering his people. 10 years from now you fools will understand Bush’s wisdom. Kerry is an idiot. Thank god he conceded.

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  35. Ok, I’ll include Montreal on my list of Canadian cities. I don’t know French but I do like the French version of Nat King Cole’s L-O-V-E I purchased on iTMS. Chicago & NYC are my option in the US.

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  37. Iran and N. Korea and the rest of the world watch out. Bush is probably planning his invasion right now. In four years he will be declaring manifest destiny, right after someone tells him what it means.

    Not that Kerry has a clue about what needs to be done either. How many people live here in the U.S. and the best candidates we could come up with as potential leaders are these two clowns?

    Sigh…Well, at least by not voting I’m don’t have to feel guilty about supporting another lost cause from these two people that in some way or another represent all that is wrong with America.

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  40. Franz, a lot of people might say China is a far more oppressive country than Iraq, yet I don’t see America fighting for their freedom. Why might that be? It is already known that Iraq had no WMD’s (10 years from now you fools will still be looking for them) and no links to terrorists, except that Iraq and Al Queda both have a ‘q’ in them. Let’s not lose sight of the fact that while Bush has been figting a pointless war in Iraq, killing untold numbers of ‘free’ Americans, he has yet to round up the one terrorist who has actually done something to America. The one who even taunted America by releasing a video 3 days before the election. Amazing you can elect some incompetence. Can’t catch a known terrorist with the strongest army in the world, loses more jobs than any President in history, racks up one of the biggest deficits in American history, has yet to show he can actually defend America’s points of entry to terrorists (except to innocent academics), and really hasn’t done that great a job in Iraq. Yeah, go Bush! But he has strong ‘family values’, like stunting American research into stem cells and forbidding loving couples from marrying.

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  42. Franz wrote: “All while torturing and murdering his people.”

    Torturing you say. Funny isn’t it. If my memory is correct, that was the US marines torturing Iraqi prisoners and murdering thousands of innocents with 5 tones bombs thus creating instant mass graves.

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  44. I must say, this unconstructive commentary is rather amusing. Disappointing, but amusing.

    Grunt, 48% Voted for Kerry. 80% of them voted against Bush, 17% voted to support Kerry. Are these Americans grouped in with your “dumber than I thought…” crowd? Or just the other 51% who elected Bush? This country is divided *almost* down the middle. This election could have gone either way. But as a good friend of mine reminded me, “As an American, you have the RIGHT to vote, but not the right to have your favorite guy in office.”

    In the end, we’re all people in the same country. I have family members who voted for Kerry and some who voted for Bush. But just because I voted for Bush doesn’t mean my sister is an idiot or that I’m a dumb hick. When that curtain closes behind you and it’s just you and the ballot, you vote your conscience. You vote based on what you know about each candidate and how you feel about them. To vote any other way, would be wrong. So don’t slam people here for being “dumber than I thought”.

    Insults and complaining do not make this any more contructive. In the end, I’m a Mac user just like you guys. I have my opinions and beliefs, as you have yours. And we won’t always agree on everything. Let’s just leave it at that and see what we can do the make the world a little better each day.

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  45. Dak. It always amazes me to see how Americans have their brain washed by TV and newspapers. Here is a question for you:

    What is best, being oppressed, but still be able to have a normal life, education, job. Or is it better to be free with no electricity, no hospitals, no jobs, no schools, no family since most of them have been killed by the bombings, and bombings everyday. I do respect your position, but maybe you should try to find some other sources of information to make yourself a better opinion.

    If you really believe that the first goal of Bush is to free the world from oppression, why didn’t he go to Sudan first, since the situation there is ten times worse than Irak?

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  47. shaun says “going to war made this country free–so some of you pacifist socialist Canadian-like pantywastes can sit home and play PS2 in mommies basement. Kerry is a shiftless wuss.”

    The difference is shaun, we chose to go to war to free ourselves. We started it, we declared independence and others came to our aid. Are you bright enough to see the difference between that and what is happening in Iraq?

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  48. Since US elections affects all the world, i don’t see why we the rest of the world are not allowed to vote for US president.

    If he’d stay in his own country without messing the rest of the world, we may be in peace.

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  51. BFD Tech stock rise cus W won! After 4 years of lies, mismanagement of the economy of failing to protect America from terrorists, for creating ever more enemies around the world and being incapable of constructing a coherent sentence I can see why Bush is so graet. Kerry at least had integrity, intelligence and the concepts of freedom, liberrty and justice were not foreing to him. Flip-flop your waffled brains my dear Bush supporters. You get what you deserve and you’ll come to regret this decision as will your children and every person on the planet is now at the mercy of the feverish, religious nut and his PNAC lovin puppet-masters. Praise the lord, pass the ammo and turn on NASCAR!

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  52. One thing you have to give Kerry. It took a hell of a lot of guts to be willing to take over the Oval Office with this unbelievable mess Bush has created the last four years. Now we can expect more of the same. As much as Bush has alienated over half the country in four years, imagine what it is going to be like four years from now! There is no way a Republican will win then as everyone will be ready for a drastic change. Can you say, “Hello Mrs. President.”?

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  53. I thought it might be about the oil, but I think it’s probably about Bush being a Christian nutjob. That’s why Blair went along with him. He’s a Christian nutjob too, even if he does hide it a little better than Dubya.

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  54. Trying to explain why Bush, and Republicans in general, are such a bad thing is like trying to explain nuclear physics to a poodle. It’s generally best not to bother. These idiots will still be blaming Clinton for a crappy economy in 2008.

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  56. sd and Dr Solution – exactly!

    d – thanks for putting it in language R’s will “get”.

    GW sold a bill of goods, steering 51% of peoples’ attention from the loss of civil liberties, job losses, and plain LIES about the reasons to go to “war” (put whatever “angle on it you want, Dak, even tho this administration could care less about humanitarian efforts).

    At least we can still talk about our opinions in open forums such as this. At least for now.

    Oh, iSteve, you might want to see this:
    http://www.immigrate.net/law/en/Canada/10ReasonsToCanada.asp

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  57. First off, Dr. Solution, I don’t get all my sources of information from TV and News papers, and if I did, being that they were seriously slanted against Bush and the War in Iraq, I would have a much different view of what is going on over there. Secondly, I get most of my information about what is happening in Iraq from Iraqi’s themselves, in their own words. I’m sure you’ve heard of this wonderful thing called a Weblog? A large number of them popped up after the fall of Saddam, and their voices say almost unanimously that life is better now than it ever was under Saddam. Go and read them. In fact, if you wish, I’ll post a couple here and just go from there. Is everything perfect in Iraq? No. Many of our boys have died there, and even more Iraqis have died from terrorist attacks by Insurgents are primarily non-Iraqis. Life will be difficult there for some time to come. People are taking great risks going there to help the Iraqis live a better life. Only time will tell if we did the right thing.

    As far as WMDs, it’s a non-issue. It was not, and never was the primary reason to go into Iraq. President Bush cited 7 reasons to go there, of which ONE was his failure to verify the destruction of his Chemical and Biological weapons as required by the UN. The mass Media locked onto the WMD issue because it became the ‘buzz word’ of the day, and then never let it go.

    There is more electricity available in Iraq now than there was under Saddam’s rule. It’s not 24/7 yet, but it’s getting there.

    Schools are being built en masse, and children are going to school daily. I have read about a half dozen weblogs of young children who write about it. Conditions in existing schools are improving, but it’s going to take time.

    The daily bombings you refer to are not being caused by US attacks, but Insurgents are are fighting a war to keep the Iraqis from being self-dependent. This is information verified in the insurgents’ own words.

    (continued…)

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  58. The first goal of President Bush ISN’T to free the world from Oppression, and no where did he ever say that it was. We went into Afghanistan to go after Bin Laden and Al Qada, we took down the regieme that protected them and though we’re still trying to find OBL, we will get him. Again, all a matter of time. We went into Iraq next because several reasons, not the least of which was the support Saddam was providing Al Qada. No, it was not direct support, like weapons and members, but there are now many verified links between Saddam and terrorism, including blood money paid to families of Palestinian suicide bombers.

    The Sudan is a huge problem, and last I heard, we may be gearing up to go in there. We’ll have to see.

    So please don’t accuse me of being a miss-informed, brainwashed idiot. I know more than you credit me for.

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  62. Oh – and dubya isn’t a christian nutjob, he’s not a christian anything, he just plays one to get the votes of christian nutjobs.

    You’re probably correct. It was probably about the oil.

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  66. Dak,
    I hope the U.S. goes to war against Minnesota because we could use some more schools here too.

    You say “it’s just a matter of time.” So we have to wait patiently for results but we don’t have to wait to go to war? I kinda thought that killing the opposition was a something you do when EVERYTHING else fails. I don’t recall Bush urging other countries to patiently wait for positive results from the peaceful negotiations.

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  69. I guess more people needed to see f911. Even after removing any of Moore’s opinions, it’s hard not to read between the lines for yourselves.

    People will believe what they want to believe, but to me, a logical, open minded urban dweller with some small town roots, I thought this thing was obvious.

    Free download below. Check out bush uncensored (mov file) while you’re there. It says a lot.

    http://marc.perkel.com/archives/000468.html

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  70. “There are three kinds of people- Pussies, Dicks, and Assholes”

    Team America- Hell ya!!

    I think I’ll sit this one out except to say:
    � I respect everyones opinions, liberals please don’t leave. Life would get boring without you.

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  74. To Rest of the World,

    Why aren’t you doing anything about Iran, N. Korea, Sudan??????? Why does the US have to do everything. You pussies whine, complain, and name call but don’t do a god damn thing to make this world a better place. If you think something should be done about Sudan or whereever get your pathetic little country to do something about it. Jackasses!

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  77. Franz,

    When you’ll suffer torture, and see death you’ll understand that it is worst to have it from someone who claim is fighting it.

    I think I�ve heard what you wrote on CNN before. Not that I watch CNN, it strangely entertains my dog when he is bored. Though I never heard my smart dog repeat things he hears on CNN!

    Good thinking… you are one hell of a smart man.

    Oh wait a minute, you voted Bush, that explains it.

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  78. Canadian,
    “I think I�ve heard what you wrote on CNN before. Not that I watch CNN, it strangely entertains my dog when he is bored. Though I never heard my smart dog repeat things he hears on CNN!”

    LOL Fellow Canuck

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  79. I’m a fairly fundamentalist Lutheran but I wouldn’t count myself as a nut job. While many of my fellow Christians seem fixated on sexual morality, I believe that the corruption that God really hates is the corruption of power and money. The new testament is littered with phrases like “You cannot serve both God and money”; and my favorit is when Christ says with obvious sarcasm “…it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God”.

    I believe that the US has become so corrupted by the pursuit of wealth and power that God has put George Bush in power to be the instrument of our destruction.

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  80. Charles, Dak, etc. Pride cometh before the fall. One should be careful before calling other countries pathetic, no superpower has survived indefinitely and history is always written by the winner. There are a lot of things in common with America and the Roman empire (and the French and british) shortly before their downfall. I don’t remember anyone asking America to ‘free’ Iraq, Sudan, Afganistan, etc. It is very difficult (but sadly, easy) to push your own values on another misuderstood culture and say ‘you’ll be better because of this’. While worrying about the Mid. East, those who think the US will always be THE superpower should look a little further East to China. Here’s an interesting thought, imagine a US / China showdown (won’t happen since there is no oil there, but anyho) and imaging China ‘surrendering’ 1,000,000 people a day to the US. You could economically cripple the US and bring it to its knees without firing a single bullet.

    Anyways, enough for me. Back to my side of the fence to watch the next 4 years of disaster.

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  81. sd, you are right about China being in the battle for superpower. The fact they don’t have oil doesn’t matter – they will be competing with the US for the worlds remaining oil supply.

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  82. vd,

    you libs are the one’s saying why doesn’t the US free Sudan or China or whoever. the question is why doesn’t one you eurotrash/canadian wussies do something? You losers spout off all the time and yet don’t do a single thing to make the world a better place by stopping the massacre in Sudan. when will another country do something on there own?????????? or the UN do something good not corrupt?

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  84. iSteve, you are quite correct. From just a human resource perspective, China is tough to beat and their proving themselves technoligcally as well (i.e the third nation with a space presence). Better start learning Chinese…which dilect though?

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  86. Two ironies:

    The states which are most at risk from terrorist attack – i.e. containing large metropolitan conurbations � mainly voted for Kerry, the states where most people join the forces as an alternative to social security mainly voted for Bush.

    The states which generate tax revenue voted Kerry, the states which consume subsidies and federal assistance voted Bush.

    The only way to look at this is that it’s only another three years until the whole thing kicks off again � Hillary Clinton vs. Cheney for 2008 anyone?

    We have a series being shown here in the UK called The Power Of Nightmares, which details the rise of Straussian political philosophy and neo-conservative politics – if anyone ever gets to see it on PBS or wherever, it’s a laugh a minute in the same way as Dr. Strangelove.

    Still, four more years of quasi-religious social conservativism, combined with borrow-and-spend fiscal policies will hopefully keep everyone happy – so long as GWB keeps his promises to keep America safe from attack.

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  89. Note to all US citizens coming to Montreal:

    Don’t be fooled. You can get by using English at Montreal. We just tell you that cause the French are # 1 WORLD LEADERS when it comes to making love (do a google on sex surveys) cause they don’t have the time to waste on totally trivial things like terroristic wars.

    Anyway, come on up if you think you can take 6-12 hours lovemaking a day. We are easy to recognize…all our building are still standing.

    And congratulations to George W. Bush

    Four more horsemen.

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  90. For those argue that China and N. Korea are bigger threats than the Middle East: China and N. Korea are not trying to expand their boarders or export their quasi socialist governments. The Middle East is exporting Fundamentalist Islamic Fascism around the world. They are the enemy and in the last two years, the enemy has been identified and exposed. We need to suppress them now. The fear is that Fundamentalists will continue to expand then unite. Iran could produce nuclear weapons then export them to Al-Qaeda cells around the world. They could have us by the balls. Thank God President Bush sees the reality of the situation.

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  91. Todd, I assume you were referring to me, if not, my apologies for answering for someone else. I haven’t asked you, nor Anerica, to do anything. Perhaps I didn’t come across as straightly as I should have. What I have meant to say is simply: before you go of ‘saving’ other countries, ask if they wan’t to be saved first – don’t be a well armed Jehovah’s Witness and assume every culture would rather be American. No one has asked the US to be the guardian angles of the world. In fact, I believe the UN said ‘don’t’, right before Bush mis-quoted some Old-West saying and went to war. And please don’t use the phrases Eurotrash nor Canadian wussies. Britian was a tremendous power (and had a lot of class to!) and Canada’s fortitude in war has been well documented.

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  92. To paraphrase Steve Jobs regarding Microsoft and the people’s choice of iPod+iTunes:

    The people actually have spoken, they picked Bush, you just don’t like their choice.

    You are the minority, Democrats. And it seems to be a shrinking minority at that – Presidency, Senate, House, and Supreme Court – all growing Republican and Conservative. Because you are in the minority, you lost. Now deal.

    Perhaps the “stupid idiots” are yourselves, Dems? You know, the ones who just lost the Presidency, Senate seats, House seats, and the Supreme Court? Just a thought for you self-centered, elitist, disconnected-from-reality, generally-bad-tempered and condescending assholes.

    That’s right, we’re laughing at you.

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  93. dont stocks always go up after an election?

    now bush can fight for his rich buddies and send troops off to die for oil. and not have to worry about getting re-elected anymore. he can show his true colors. be afraid.

    i thought we americans were smarter than this, but kerry supporters stayed home and let the minority win. in 4 years we sure will be smarter… the ones that haven’t died to make the rich richer.

    just look at how childish bush supporters sound, they like sound bites not good choices. kerry supporters think through all sides, but most americans want a simple answer from a simple man. bush is happy to use them for his own agenda and laugh behind his back at his own supporters–except the rich few.

    so yes, congrats to bush and to the country he is destroying ” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”smile” style=”border:0;” />

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  94. Oh come now, commonsense, Fundamentalist Islamic Fascism is the enemy? If you have ever read the Koran, you know Islam is the most peaceful religion going. Yep, there are a few (vocal) who have their own militant interpretation. Contrasted with peaceful Christianity, which we all know, has never harmed a soul. You have a scary opinion and one that hope is yours alone.

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  95. vd and Mac Slut,

    You two are dillusional. Fundamentalist Islam is the enemy of the free world. Stop defending psychopaths. Mac Beth – you are the idiot toots. This war is not about oil, it’s about blowing the cavemen terrorists off the face of the planet. Why don’t you move to Iran and hang out with your friends. biatch!

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  96. Does anyone feel safer now that assault weapons are legal and available here in the U.S.? I am sooo glad that Bush let the ban expire. Now I don’t have to worry about foreign terrorists. I can worry about my neighbor with an Uzi.

    And Canada, you better hope to God you don’t find an abundant supply of oil or else you might be the next victim of U.S. foreign policy.

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  99. Ah, sd, a little sanity! I think the American century was the 20th not the 21st. Pride comes before a fall and some (not all) have it aplenty. We should be careful not to ascribe the Bush arrogance to all Americans as many sad people have posted elsewhere today their sorrow at his re election. Anyone who believes the current American hegemony will last is sadly mistaken. American power will vapourise as oil (which has been profligately squandered by the world’s most conspicuous consumptives) runs out. By a curious happenstance that may be the ultimate solution to the Middle East, cos no one will be interested in the god forsaken spot once the oil runs out. Unless the US adapts to new circumstances (ie no energy left to project its power) it will wither and fade away. What a thought!

    Finally. While I agree with your comparison of the US to the Roman Empire, I dispute the comment about us Brits & the Frogs. We sort of acquired an Empire in pursuit of trade and by accident, and I assume the frogs you speak of are those of the first little corporal who pushed the second little corporal in the same direction. (Moscow) The French Empire was acquired by force of arms and similarly dismantled by a collaboration of allied states (sound familiar?). Ours was not a downfall, we merely gave ours back to those we had taken it from when we realised the cost in blood to keep it was just not worth the candle. And for some strange reason some of those countries still maintain some traditions of the “mother” country like Cricket and Parliamentary Democracy. (I cannot imagine baseball being treated similarly in Iraq). Interestingly perhaps the US should look to India at how to run an election. After all the population is much bigger, poorer, less literate(?), and they don’t have voting machines either.

    My condolences to all citizens of the US for today’s result, for ye shall reap what ye sow, and the poor sods elsewhere who will suffer Bush’s follies.

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  100. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black! You libs are completely out of your minds. The names that you have called Bush and his supporters are unmentionable. Over and over again. It’s ok for you people to name call but when it’s done back to you you can’t take it. There’s nothing worse than people that can dish it out but not take it.

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  102. typical elitist liberal – “i thought we americans were smarter than this”
    liberal elitists feel that people deserve a voice, except when they disagree with liberals, or when religion is important to them–celebrate diversity!!
    Don’t forget, and I’m very serious, the greastest thing about a democracy is that people can decide their vote by whatever reason they want, anything from “Bush’s daughters are hotter” to “Kerry has a better plan for the economy”
    Democrats, when you’re complaining about Bush, remind yourself that Bush didn’t win the election, you (with Kerry) lost this election.

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  104. Democracy man- Bush appealed to the heart (mainly vaporware stuff like longhorn) Kerry appealed to the mind (real issues) that the electorate chose (at least 51% done so) to ignore. Hubris beckons

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  105. Hey, any of you guys wanna come over to my place and watch Fahrenheit-911? I haven’t seen it, and many of my lib friends think I shouldn’t bad-mouth it till I’ve seen it. Well, I think this would be a great time to see it.

    Wonder if Mr. Moore’s coming expose on health care will mention anything about FAT FUCKS LIKE HIM using valuable health care dollars to keep their JABA-the-HUT-like asses well?

    Probably not.

    Reply

  106. Unfortunately, the Massachusetts Supreme Court & SF Mayor Newsom helped Bush win this election. The backlash from the sight of loving but gay couples getting married mobilized the right to get out the vote.

    Reply

  109. To SD, King_Alvarez, and the rest of the Bush bashers….

    People like yourselves do nothing more than regurgitate the liberal media. You believe everything they say and espouse THEIR opinions as if they were your own. None of you could carry on an intelligent and well informed conversation when it comes to American politics and the cause for the Iraq war.

    The typical points that you bring up – it was a war for oil, imperialism, Bush is getting revenge for his father – shows your incredible lack of knowledge and understanding of current events.

    Please do us all a favor – just STFU. You are only exposing yourselves for the lemmings that you truly are.

    And to the Americans that would like to leave this country because GWB was relected – there is only one phrase that I can think of that you will understand – FUCK YOU! By all means please leave. You embarass me and your statements make me ashamed to call you a fellow American.

    Reply

  111. Well the liberal media makes better reading/watching than Fox Media!

    The BBC tonite is talking Bush won on the basis of “Family, Faith & Flag” 3 F’s. I’ll add a fourth for 2008. “And F*cked”

    Watch this space

    Reply

  112. Right of Fancy

    Agin – you are just voicing the liberal media’s opinion on Fox. If you ever really watched Fox, you would know that they basically DO present their news in an unbiased way. But I am sure that you don’t.

    Answer me this – if it is okay for the Left to basically run the majors (NBC, ABC, and CBS), why CAN’T the Right have at least ONE frigging station to watch? Why is that not okay?

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  115. hey Chris,
    Take a breath and relax…

    Ok now that we’re all calm…first of all, I am not a Democrat and I am not saying that Kerry is going to solve the world’s problems.

    I just think that people naively think that Bush is going to protect the world and that true peace and security lies only in his hands.

    As to the cause of the war…no matter how noble the cause is, I do not want the blood of a hundred thousand people on my conscience just because they may at some time present a future threat. Especially when there are alternatives.

    Reply

  116. “real issues” are whatever the voter wants them to be.

    Fine by me but when the voters have been duped, conned, and shafted by the administration and still believe Bush is Good (?God) for you I am seriously astounded.

    Womens rights, The Environment, Your Pensions, Democracy. Yesterday 51% of you voted to flush them down the toilet.

    I never cease to be amazed!

    Reply

  117. Show a booby on TV during the Superbowl and America cries out, mislead the world, act against the UN, bomb an innocent country with no weapons to defend it and America will re-elect you. Nuts!

    with you on that one SD. The most interesting numbers I noted on CNNs site last night showing the exit pole votes was that 54% of women in the US were voting for Kerry and 57% of men were voting for Bush, does that most American Men prefer to be at war and invading other countries in “Peace time?” Cause the women seemed to show that they prefer otherwise

    Reply

  119. Interesting, I read a response from an apparent democrat and it is well articulated, thought out, and expressed well. Most responses by non-democrats contain nothing but swear words and hate mongering. Why is that?

    Reply

  121. Interesting, I read a response from an apparent republican and it is well articulated, thought out, and expressed well. Most responses by non-republicans contain nothing but swear words and hate mongering. Why is that?

    Reply

  123. Interesting, I read a response from an apparent Libertarian and it is well articulated, thought out, and expressed well. Most responses by non-Libertarians contain nothing but swear words and hate mongering. Why is that?

    Reply

  124. Interesting, I read a response from an apparent independent and it is well articulated, thought out, and expressed well. Most responses by non-independents contain nothing but swear words and hate mongering. Why is that?

    Reply

  125. Democracy man, but the magnitude of the duping, conning and shafting is just soooooooooo breathtakingly obvious. The people have yet to be persuaded the Emporor has no clothes. Trouble is the seeing will hurt them more than the Emperor.

    Bodybags from Iraq, no pensions, no jobs no medicaire, but who cares, Karl, Bill & W will have their stash…..

    Its like sex with the wrong person. One night’s pleasure, but a lifetime of pain, disease etc etc.

    Reply

  127. Chris, there is no place for swearing in intellegent conversation. I have not promoted a reason for the Iraq war at all, and certainly not one which I obtainted from a liberally-slanted media. In fact, most of my research is done using papers and books, I own not a TV – starving grad student you know. Thank goodness I don’t work in ‘questionable’ research though or I’d be out of a job. My primary point way back was that I am amazed at the number of civil liberties you have given up in the name of safety. In reality, I don’t think it is any harder to enter the US now than it was 3 years ago. But, in that time, you have given the government the ability to listen to your phone conversations, read your mail, look at your medical records, hold you without just cause for as long as they see fit, subject you to random searches of person and a whole host of other goodies. The Patriot Act is the scariest thing I have come across. Not only for what it does to American citizens, but to guests of your country! As I said before, I think things are a little screwy – networks are being fined hundreds of thousands of dollars for airing a swear word (i.e. Dale Jr’s little mishap a few weeks back) or showing a woman’s breast (Superbowl), but lying and misleading a country, attacking a weaker and indefensible country, well, that’s okay. Logically, does this make sense? Now don’t respond with generic ‘your comments are media dribble’ statements, respond with well thought out answers (Step 2 in an intellegent conversation).

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  128. Kool is a funny guy, with a terriffic slant on statistics.

    The vote for all sides go up: the presidency appears to have been won by 130,000 votes out of a total of around 110 million – according to the electoral college system.

    In other words, the outcome was decided by around 0.1% of the votes.

    Now, even if you count the popular vote, more people turned out for Kerry/Edwards (over 54 million) than for Gore/Lieberman (50.999 million). So the reality is that despite getting 7.5% more people to vote the Democrat ticket, the Republican Party was just better at getting the vote out where it mattered to the tune of increasing the Bush/Cheney vote by 15%.

    This hardly means that Democrats are a declining minority, although it does indicate that – despite everything – the Republican party motivated more people into its corner and it could be argued over for years as to why people are motivated to vote in a given way.

    By the way, if you think that having the whole of government controlled by a single party is a good idea, there is strong evidence from this side of the Atlantic that you’re wrong � be careful of what you wish for.

    As said by Dave H earlier, this is over for four years and congratulations to Republicans and comiserations to Democrats.

    Reply

  131. The US should invest in a couple KY jelly companies because we are so screwed its not even funny. How screwed? Wait until bush loads the SC with neorepubs and then watch soon after as Roe vs. Wade takes a beating. I’m betting before the 1/2 way mark on his 2nd term. You idiots are going to regret voting for him. He has nothing to lose at this point. Watch. The international community is going to be watching us sort of like the Fox show When Animals Attack. You can’t help watch in disgusted fasination.

    PS- I’ll keep an “i told you so” in my back pocket just in case another terrorist attack occures. Do you actually think the gov can stop it from happening again? All the money in the world, all the cute little Bushisms, all the man-power can’t stop another attack for one reason. We aren’t perfect and we can’t predict every move a terrorist is going to make. Reality check folks. Changing foreign policy is what stops terrorists not blasting the crap out of other countries. Kerry would have potentially been much more effective at dealing with terrorist because his way of doing it wasn’t about going around with a club smacking every nation over the head and screaming FREEDOM!! YOU ARE A DEMOCRACY! All hail King George the III.

    Reply

  132. King Alvarez – I am quite clam. And I think I responded in a quite calm manner. After all the bloated rhetoric you used at least my statement was lucid and accurate.

    But I want to address this really quick….

    “bomb an innocent country with no weapons to defend”

    WTF?? You cannot be serious about that statement. The Iraqi army was VERY well armed and trained. Their arms, much like the ones that are being used by the “insurgents” today, were all French made and basically brand spanking new. The reason we KNOW this is due to the arms we captured after those “elite” Republican Guard units threw them down and ran away. And therein lies the REAL reason the French did not support this war – they stood to lose too much money. And they did. And you lemings actually bought their dog and poney show hook, line, and sinker.

    BTW – do you dipshits have any idea who these “insurgents” are? They are not the typical Iraqi citizen that “fears” America and all the sinister SHIT that the liberal media has cooked up. These “insurgents” are what is left of Saddams ruling class that are pissed off becuase the grand lifestyle that they enjoyed under Saddam has been taken away from them, and they damn sure want it back. The rest of the “insurgents” are from OUTSIDE of Iraq – mercenaries, if you will.

    The typical Iraqis are ELATED and GRATEFUL that WE (the US, Great Britain, Poland, etc.) kicked the shit out of their army and their leader.

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  133. Oh c’mon-

    To claim one side is spouting more then the other is ridiculous.
    I’ve seen flames and well written ops from both camps in this forum.

    On the lighter side-
    I can’t wait until Bush is out of office so his Daughters can do a Playboy spread!! Delicious!!!!
    If we’re lucky, they won’t wait till he’s out of office.

    Reply

  135. SD

    I cannot have an intelligent conversation with you because you cannot provide an intelligent point of view. Your statement of “attacking a weaker and indefensible country” is proof of that.

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  136. Dear friends,

    Bush killed my family. All of the worlds’ problems started four years ago when he took office. I can’t believe americans are so stupid. I wish I could move to Canada. In ten months I won’t be able to abort my child. Bush caused my sperm count to lower and my son’s boyfriend broke up with him b/c of W.

    Please, get a grip and have some cheese with your whines. Us regular Americans will look forward to seeing what he can do with his mandate, instead of singing a swan song of doom and gloom. Put down the crack pipe fellas…

    Reply

  137. Chris – so why did the US Army seize the Iraqi Oil Ministry last year, and not the arms dumps which have doubtless provided the insurgents with most if not all their weapons since then?

    Er excuse me “well armed & trained”? If I remember rightly the majority of the Iraqi Army ran away when confronted with overwhelming firepower. It was the militias in Falluja etc that gave Uncle Sam the hard time.

    I would agree the Frogs & Russkis had much to lose in Iraq and that a lot of the insurgents are ex Saddam’s guys but US behaviour has alienated many for its lack of sensitivity to things not of the US, be it way of life or religion.

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  138. Chris, perhaps a point of clarification. Almost any country is weak compared to the US. How many handheld French weapons does it take to shoot down a fighter jet? A sidewinder missle? At no time did Iraq attack the US. The attack against Iraq was unprovoked, much like a similar one back in the 1940’s in a certain sunny State. A bigger bully beating up a smaller bully is still a bully in my book.

    My question to you, Chris, is simply how many liberties are you willing to lose before you get angry? Before you start thinking you have been cheated? Do you really feel safer today? If your answer is ‘yes I feel safer’ and ‘no liberty to too sacrid’, then a vote for Bush was probably a good idea, otherwise, well there could be a number of reasons why voting for Bush may have been a good idea, who knows. Perhaps you can tell me?

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  141. To the people using the Deficit argument, this is not the first time that the US has spent billions on a deficit. FDR did the same thing during the great depression. A huge amount of the money being spent is going to US companies which makes the economy grow and creates jobs. The major clash with the terrorists is that they want the whole globe to conform to their form of Islam which is a sham and corrupts a beautiful religion, similar to what was going on during the protestant movement in Europe. The US wants open markets across the globe. The problem is that everyone wants power but wont discuss how to share anything.

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  143. vd,

    Iraq was unprovoked????? Who invaded Kuwait and had sanctions up the yin yang that he was paying no attention to and the UN was trying to let him get out of behind the scenes so France and friends could do business with him.

    Get real you lying scum.

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  146. Attention Michael Moore!
    Attention Michael Moore!

    Your one-way flight to Paris is now boarding.
    You are seated between Barabara Streisand and Alec Baldwin.
    Entertainment on your flight will be provided by the Dixie Chicks and Bruce Springsteen.
    EX-Senator Daschle will be bringing you a snack after the seat belt light is turned off. French wine and cheese will be served.
    The movie shown on the flight will be the new documentary film titled: “How the left-wing, ultra-liberal whacko Democrats ruined the Democratic Party and gave the House, Senate and office of the Presidency to the Republicans”.

    As we head down the runway towards our way to France please look out the left side of the plane and see the happiest Democrat in the world; Hillary Clinton smiling broadly and holding up her sign “Hillary in 2008!”

    Reply

  147. We, the following, admit to being the biggest losers in the election:

    Osama Bin Laden and his minions, George Soros, Michael Moore, Moveon, Hamas,
    CBS, ABC, NBC, PBS, Bruce Springsteen, The Dixie Chicks, Cheryl Crow, REM, Carol King, Leo DiCaprio, Streisand, Martin Sheen, Hollywood Lefties, The U.N., The BBC, CNN, 60 Minutes, David Letterman, Jay Leno, John Stewart, The View, Politcally Incorrect, Rosey, Cher, Modonna, Oprah, Howard Stern, Imus, The New York Times, Paul Krugman, Maureen Dowd, LA Times, London Times, France, China, North Korea, Iran, Islamo-Terrorists, International Socialists, Marxists, Hillary, Bill Clinton, Jimmy Carter, Chuck Schumer, Dan Rather, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, ACLU, NAACP, ACLU, NEA, Marxocrats, Redistruntonist, Air America, Al Franken, Janine Garofolo, Paul O’Neill, Bob Woodward, Richard Clark , Ron Reagan Jr., The DNC, Mario Coumo, Terry McCauliff, Left Leaning 527’s, Warren Buffet, Ted Turner, Jane Fonda, Ted Kennedy, Tom Daschle, Robert Byrd, Gov. Dean, Tom Harkin, Wesley Clark, Dennis Kusinich, Nancy Pelosi, James Carville, Paul Begala, John Edwards, Teresa Hines, and finally… John F Kerry.

    Reply

  148. I don’t believe I am lying, nor scum. Once again I ask, what did Iraq do to America? Even the latest and greatest CIA report has said that Sadam wanted to rebuild his weapon’s arsnal only to attack this old enemy….Iran.
    The odd thing is, Iraq to some extent held the upper hand – they have the oil the US needs so darn bad. No matter how much the US wanted to punish Sadam they still needed access to that large resource..so…oil for food and medicine! What a great idea!
    On a slightly different note, I agree with what some has posted above – roe vs wade look out! Just for note, I don’t believe in abortion and certainly not that such issues should be decided by a court, but that’s another liberty gone.

    Reply

  149. Sadly, I don’t agree with the list of losers…Osama is likely not crying. It’s arguable that it is easier to recruit extremists with Bush in power. This is a man they have come to hate and dispise over the last 3+ years.

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  150. sd, my man, u don�t understand the Muslim mind. Power is the key. Whoever has the power is the way they follow.
    Muscle.
    Bin Laden�s last tape was a show of weakness (no weapon in the video, no screaming for a jihad, trying to be a politician).
    Bush has now won the election.
    Bush is strong and getting stronger.
    Osama is not crying, he is hiding…on the run.
    Watch the attitude change in Iraq real quick. And with Arafat having AIDS or something else terminal or incapaciting, things in Israel change real quick.

    Things are looking lots better for the world.

    Reply

  152. C�mon effwerd if you had won you would be rubbing it in like salt in new wound.

    For the last year the press and all your fellow democrats have been pounding away at Bush will all that B.S.

    To the victor goes the spoils.

    Don�t get mad at Bush and us fellow Republicans. Get mad at the left-wing, ultra left, elitist Democrat leadership – they got you a lousy candidate.
    As you can see by the map of the US the democrats are totally out of touch with maintstream America.
    Hint: Watch Hillary. She is going to try to move the Democrats back to the middle.
    That�s how Bill won.

    Reply

  153. See, here in America, we have this problem. It’s called Middle America. If the northeast and California were to split from this country (as well as they should) there wouldn’t be anyone to pay the bill for Middle America’s wars and churches.

    Australia, from what I hear is looking for qualified tech workers.

    Reply

  157. You know, in 4 years, the Democrats will be moaning that Jeb Bush just stole the election from Hilary Clinton.

    See, things could be worse. 4 years from now the choice could be between Bush the Third or Clinton the Second.

    Reply

  158. Nah…Rudy Guiliani will beat Hillary in her re-election bid in 2006.

    It will be Rudy or Sen. McCain vs. Edwards or Kerry again. That is unless Teresa divorces Kerry and he is left with no financial base.

    Reply

  160. ugh.. this is depressing… what did you guys vote for.. issues..? uh.. no..

    foreign policy? oops..
    Economy.. oh shit..
    Religious Right Wing Wacko in the White House..?
    You bet! ” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”wink” style=”border:0;” />

    What a lame place to live..

    Reply

  161. G-Spank:

    A good point.

    Osama bin Laden surfaces just a few days before the election to “inform” the US population that it doesn’t matter who is President, and to berate the incumbent and he achieves what was probably his intended result wich was to keep Bush and (more importantly) his disasterously incompetent cabinet and advisers in power.

    These two entities need each other to exist: the NeoCon establishment needs a “Clear And Present Danger” to unite the country against a common enemy, thus diverting attention from domestic policies that are largely free of imagination or effect; and radical Islamists need a right-wing “crusading” American administration – preferably laden with ‘shoot from the hip’ types – to demonise whilst radicalising a population of young, adult males who are either economically or politically disenfranchised.

    People like bin Laden, Zarqawi and their kind succeed partially as a result of the USA, UK, France and others having disasterously poor taste in who they’re willing to deal with: the USA has supported Iran and Egypt (CIA-trained secret police), Iraq (arms), and Saudi Arabia (you name it). The UK has supported Bahrain, Saudi (corrupt arms deals), Qatar, Iraq and others. France likewise.

    It’s incredibly easy for radical Islamists to paint western governments as sponsors and role models for the corrupt regimes in their own countries.

    Once you’ve got a poorly educated, but highly motivated individual ‘all fired up’, you just step away and let his own misguided/warped sense of justice take over on auto-pilot.

    Here’s a question for all the Homeland Security types here: how many of the many hundreds of arrests of alleged ‘al-Qua’ida’ cells made in the USA since 9/11 have resulted in actual convictions that have stuck? Do some digging, it’s a laugh. Of particular amusement are cases in Detroit and Buffalo.

    Reply

  162. Reality check: there won’t be a mass exodus of liberals from the US, and they’ll continue to exercise their democratic right to Bush-bash for the next four years. That’s the beauty of democracy: you don’t have to like the umpire’s (read: the people’s) decision, but you continue to have the right to speak out.

    I just wish celebrity lefties who threaten to leave would make good on their promise.

    The reality is, America wouldn’t have been much different under Kerry. Those talking of a police state under Bush are the paranoid ones.

    And those slackers who didn’t bother to vote have no right to complain.

    Reply

  163. Oh, and sd, when it comes to the terrorists you were damned if you did elect Bush, and damned if you didn’t.

    Electing Bush might prompt more recruiting for Al-Qaeda (though America is considered The Great Satan regardless of who’s in control), but electing Kerry might have given comfort to terrorists.

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  165. Hey solid, look out your window. I’m waiving from that black helicopter. Oh wait, you can’t actually *SEE* the black helicopters, can you?

    Yes, Ronald Reagan started putting cloaking devices on them in the ’80s. Yes, cloaks…another by-product of the SDI.

    Oh well, just wave and trust we’re waving back. We’ll leave a refill for your meds and a reminder for your next therapist appointment at your door.

    Reply

  166. Congratulations George W. Bush!! and other conservative winners…

    Today has been a GREAT day for America.

    To the wacko lib posters on this thread: the mother ship will not be coming back for you, so make the best of it.

    Reply

  167. Bush is a dumb man being played by the republican elite.

    Given enough time it’s said that you can get a monkey to type the works of the Bard. It’s taken many thousands of years for that to happen. And its only happen once.

    But its take only a few hundred years to elect a monkey into the most powerful country in the world, twice.

    Well done America! Your living up to your true heritage…

    Reply

  168. What�s cool about listening to the whining liberal Democrats is that not only did the lose the PRESIDENCY (again),
    BUT they also do not have majority in the
    HOUSE
    and
    SENATE!

    How is that oh wise Democrats?
    You talk of a country divided yet the Presidency, Senate and House Of Representatives belongs to one party. The Republicans. That�s not divided, that�s a majority.

    Whining Democrats do not blame anyone else but yourselves for your losses.
    Next time put up a candidate that people believe in, not an “anybody-but-Bush”, most liberal Democrat there is.
    (TIP: Clinton won because he was a moderate. And if the press had been more fair in its reporting and gone after Kerry with the same zeal as Bush, Bush would have won by a landslide.)

    Democrats you need to clean house – sweep out the types like M. Moore, George Soros, the Hollywood left, the Kennedy left, the Jesse Jackson left,the MoveOn losers and cheaters.
    Get rid of Joe Lockhart, Terry McAuliffe, Shrum, etc., etc.
    I wish you good luck in cleaning house. The United States needs everyone working to make it remaind the best country in the world.

    And to all you foreign contributors to this forum – hey, deride your own country�s government and people and leave ours alone! We will take care of ourselves, we don�t need outsiders butting their noses in.
    I have travelled all over the world and lived in Europe for several years. America is the greatest country in the world. And will remain so.

    Reply

  169. John Jacobson writes “And to all you foreign contributors to this forum – hey, deride your own country�s government and people and leave ours alone!”

    Tell you what, it’s a deal � when the US stops interfering in politics in Venezuela or any other country of whose government it disapproves (hmmm, another oil producing country – no pattern there then), we’ll stop commenting on the US.

    Or, if that’s too much to hope for, how about the US paying attention to foreign policy issues other than those which have a direct benefit to the USA, like Zimbabwe or Kazakhstan where repression and torture are commonplace.

    Reply

  170. Jacobsen: “We will take care of ourselves, we don�t need outsiders butting their noses in.”

    Ironic statement of the Decade

    America is the greatest country in the world.. Good thing you don’t care about your debt..

    Reply

  171. “just because I voted for Bush doesn’t mean my sister is an idiot or that I’m a dumb hick”

    Yeah it does. You have to be some kind of Neanderthal to vote for that bigot.

    If only the US would butt out of world affairs when it isn’t wanted, then perhaps foreigners wouldn’t have much interest in US elections.

    As it is, I can’t wait to see the response next time Osama or some other nut bombs you. Apathy, I imagine.

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  172. Are Republicans just joking, or are they really morons.

    I know that you lot complain that liberals accuse you of being morons, but they do so because it is true. You’re all absolutely thick as pig ****. There really isn’t any other reasonable response. Your arguments are the worst kind of trash and none of you have any conception of how modern economies work.

    I’m sure glad I don’t live in the US. Must feel really good to be black or gay there right now.

    Reply

  173. Ag, as much as I share your displeasure at
    the result maybe, ‘all as thick as pig S**t’, is going a bit far.
    The two things I find worrying about America is the naiveity regarding their own security and the perceived danger, and the untasteful mix of politics and religion.

    Americans need to stop believing the bull regarding the threat that they are supposedly constantly under. Take a look at what you have had to concede,
    your freedom, your wealth, your world wide popularity.

    You are NOT in significant danger so chill and have some of that californian wine will you!

    Did anyone watch that series on BBC2(UK)last night, the power of fears (or somat like that), very interesting indeed. They said that a worldwide structured terrorist network simply doesn’t actually exist and that Bin Laden was not actually responsible for the 9-11 attacks.

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  174. Hey MCCFR, AG, Mike, why don�t you hassle your own country�s governments to tackle those problems you mention?

    Because you know they can�t do anything but whine and whine and shuffle their bureaucratic feet while taking kickbacks and bribes – the “worldly” way that things are done.

    What is your government doing to bring democracy and liberty to the people of the Middle East (and around the world?
    What is your country doing to help the poor and uneducated of the world?
    What is your country doing to help the oppressed people of Dafur?
    What is your country doing to fight terrorists?
    What is your country doing to fight pollution and improve the environment?
    When was the last time your country took the lead and did something international that was not directly in its own self interest?

    And MCCFR – Venezeula??? A dictatorship in the making that you are supporting?

    Whine, whine, whine – did any of you even vote in your country�s last elections? Do they even have voting in your country?

    Reply

  175. chris w sez: “Take a look at what you have had to concede, your freedom, your wealth, your world wide popularity.”

    What loss of freedom? What did you lose?

    Loss of wealth? How? Where? I make more money today and have more things today than 5 years ago. The cost of security is a lot cheaper than a nuke bomb destroying London or New York.

    Lose of World Wide Popularity? Ooooh – I did not know it was a popularity contest. Is France ahead of Italy in the top 10 most popular nations or has Iceland finally nudged out Singapore as most popular. Silly.
    And your ignorance of history is showing. During the cold war- from 1946 (approximately) until 1989 the entire Soviet bloc world had nuclear missiles pointed at the west they despised/hated/feared the west so much.
    According to the commies the U.S. was not very popular.
    Which country is most popular to you and what in the heck does it mean or prove?

    And chrs w sez: “Americans need to stop believing the bull regarding the threat that they are supposedly constantly under.”
    That is because the actions against terrorists by George Bush and other governments around the world work!!!
    Bush busted up the terror networks, took away most of their money supply, made Bin Laden fear for his life and hide in some cave. The terrorists are losing! Hurray for the leadership of George Bush!

    Reply

  176. Librium: IN case you didn’t know, In Utero is the title of a Nirvana, as is Nevermind.

    Wasn’t having a dig. There really was not point in arguing, it would have fallen on deaf ears. Better to wait for 3 1/2 years and start trying again.

    Either it will be even more obvious what an horrendous mistake has been made, or miraculously, Bush will have turned things around. I think he’s expecting miracles, what with God being on his side and being on a crusade against ‘evil’ and all.

    Reply

  179. In response to not chrisw:

    Loss of freedom – I mean people being held without trial, databases of information stored on people, inconveniences due to travel and movement restrictions.

    Loss of wealth – I mean the multi-billions spent on the Iraq war and a bogus war on organised terrorism, plus a president that has borrowed huge piles of cash do this while taking his eye off the economy.

    Loss of popularity- Very important, the simple straight talking president may appeal to middle america, but it sure as hell pisses off young, demorilised islamic men.

    Regarding…’During the cold war- from 1946 (approximately) until 1989 the entire Soviet bloc world had nuclear missiles pointed at the west they despised/hated/feared the west so much’

    Yes and isn’t it better now they don’t because today there is constructive dialogue between Russia and the USA.

    Reply

  180. Hey foreign ass wipes,

    we are very glad you don’t live here too. Stay the f*ck out and go screw yourselves while you’re at it. your pathetic little countries do nothing but cause problems and leach off the US. You people do absolutely nothing to make the world a better place. We hate you too!

    Reply

  182. Chris w,

    you are demented! Reagan ended the cold war and not by being weak.

    who gives a shit what france and germany thinks. we’re not going to base our security on whether or not they’ll get upset because they got caught arming our enemy when they should have been enforcing the UN resolutions.

    I’d much rather have a little inconvenience traveling then have a terrorist blow up anything!

    People like you are so out of touch it’s pathetic. Once these angry islamic men have some freedom they probably won’t be angry any more. If they are we’ll take care of them.

    Chris, you suck!

    Reply

  183. The truth is Bob, that the sovient empire crumbled because although it was believed to be strong, it was in fact very weak.

    Keep it comin Bob, I just love to be told how much I suck!

    Reply

  184. not MCCFR or Ag or Mike:

    Yes, we have free and fair elections here in the UK – and you don’t even have to spend close to a billion dollars to buy them.

    [B]What is your government doing to bring democracy and liberty to the people of the Middle East (and around the world? [/B]

    Actually, the same as yours – just like we did between 1939 and 1945, whilst your country was busy profiteering from Nazi collaboration. Did someone say Ford or General Motors?

    [B]What is your country doing to help the poor and uneducated of the world? [/B]

    Writing off third-world debt.

    [B]What is your country doing to help the oppressed people of Dafur?[/B]

    Pretty much the same as you actually.

    [B]What is your country doing to fight terrorists?[/B]

    Well, we’ve been fighting terrorism for the best part of a century – the vast majority (Irish republicanism) of it liberally funded by Americans, such as lovable old hoofer, Gene Kelly.

    [B]What is your country doing to fight pollution and improve the environment?[/B]

    We signed up to something called Kyoto, and the average engine size in this country is between 1600cc and 2200cc as opposed to three litres plus.

    [B]When was the last time your country took the lead and did something international that was not directly in its own self interest? [/B]

    Going to war with the Germans over Poland ring any bells. Peacekeeping in Bosnia. Peacekeeping in Sierra Leone. Any of this ring any bells.

    Reply

  185. [B]And MCCFR – Venezeula??? A dictatorship in the making that you are supporting?[/B]

    Democratically elected does not make a dictatorship, no matter what USAID or any other CIA front organisation cares to say.

    Kazakhstan IS a fully-functioning dictatorship, and yet both your country and mine (shamefully) appear to be willing to condone torture and repression there.

    [B]Whine, whine, whine – did any of you even vote in your country�s last elections? Do they even have voting in your country?[/B]

    Didn’t vote in my last election, becuase I’d just moved and had missed the registration deadline.

    Other than that I’ve voted in every election – local, national, and EU since I reached the age of majority 24 years ago.

    So I think the phrase I’m looking for is BITE ME!

    Reply

  186. Chris W:

    Actually, it was The Power Of Nightmares and wasn’t it a hoot over three episodes.

    I particularly liked the bit in the first episode where somebody was argung that you could tell the Russians were up to something in 1975-6 because you couldn’t find any evidence of any activity which meant that they must be doing something they shouldn’t.

    Oh, how I laughed when this all linked back to Rumsfeld as Ford’s Secretary of Defense and Cheney as his Chief of Staff – oh, the irony.

    Its the kind of programme that the BBC should be encouraged to make.

    Reply

  187. Chris, chris, chris, you are confused!
    And if there was no US of A to beat the Soviets economically and militarily you still think that the Soviet Empire would have crumbled because it was weak??? Dream on.
    The U.S. (along with western Europe, plus Japan and South Korea and Australia) beat them because we have a better political and economical system, plus much better military forces. It took nearly 50 years, but the U.S. won the Cold War and the Soviet empire crumbled. Reagan went in debt to do it, but the Soviets couldn�t put up the cash to meet Reagan�s gamble and continue developing their military or bribing/controlling all its colonies.

    ———–
    And regarding your comments:
    “Loss of freedom – I mean people being held without trial, databases of information stored on people, inconveniences due to travel and movement restrictions.”
    REMARK: Do you personally know anyone that that has happened to? Not me. Visit Europe sometime. In Germany if you move to a town, you have to register with the local police. Move to another location, register with the local police. Everyone is issued a government ID card, a health card – why? to track all 80 million of them. You have no idea what loss of freedom means.

    “Loss of wealth – I mean the multi-billions spent on the Iraq war and a bogus war on organised terrorism, plus a president that has borrowed huge piles of cash do this while taking his eye off the economy.”
    REMARK: Cheaper than what would happend if the terrorists were attacking in the U.S. The economy is plugging along fine after recovering from a Clinton recession, 911 attack and two wars which we won. It is getting better all the time. You rely too much on anti-Bush press for your information.

    “Loss of popularity- Very important, the simple straight talking president may appeal to middle america, but it sure as hell pisses off young, demorilised islamic men.”
    REMARK: The islamic men were already demoralized from living under all the Middle East dictorships. The U.S. is trying to spread liberty for these people and democracy so they can enjoy the freedom of thought and expression that the western world has.
    Why do think the terrorists are fighting in Iraq? They don�t want democracy installed in Iraq they want a religious dictatorship.
    And don�t forget about the poor oppressed Islamic women that have to endure the daily discrimmination and mistreatment by the Islamic men.
    Non-religious democracies would do wonders in the world.

    Reply

  188. Well now we know that not only are you anti-American, but also against your own UK government.
    Must be real frustrating living in the the free western world and wishing to live in a pro-islamist, socialist country or a South American dictatorship.
    Where could you move to?
    France is not far away.

    Reply

  189. MCCFR, you just killed on your response – congratulations. Unfortunately, logic rarely has a place with these people. Most of them have voted based passionately on a) pro life, b) hatred of foreigners (Bush embodies this), c) their fear of getting their guns taken away, d) their fear in general of terrorsits (inexplicably they think Bush will protect them), or e) their anti-gay, anti-artist, anti-free thinker stance. These are the people that now rule the roost in America, and that is why it now is a truly scary country. God help us.

    Reply

  190. You and MCCFR should move to France together.

    Regarding your list on how people voted:

    I am for a woman�s right to have an abortion.
    I am married to a foreigner.
    I don�t own a gun.
    I do fear terrorists – if you don�t you are a liar.
    I am not anti-gay. I have many friends that are gay and one of my brother�s is gay.
    I am an artist. (My fulltime job.)
    I am a free thinker.
    I am a registered Republican and I voted for Bush.

    Reply

  192. “And to all you foreign contributors to this forum – hey, deride your own country�s government and people and leave ours alone! We will take care of ourselves, we don�t need outsiders butting their noses in.”

    Sorry dude when you make an attack on humanity, humans will respond. Your paranoid xenophobic isolationism will not save you, unless you pack your bags up, close your embassies and take your crap armies back to your country. I sure hope the UN moves out of there too.

    If America is the greatest country in the world then why do the french surpass you when it comes to sex.

    You are the best at war mongering, nothing more.

    Reply

  193. Attacking terrorists (alQueda) and dictators(Iraq) is not an attack on humanity.

    How would you know that the French surpass the US when it comes to sex?
    Are you referring to sex with sheep?
    And glad to see that is where your brain is focused on.

    Road Warrior sez: “You (the United States) are the best at war mongering, nothing more.”
    REPLY: Words of a true moron. Everything you eat, drink, sleep, wear, listen to today was either invented or discovered or produced or made better by someone from the United States.
    If it was not for spirit of creation, entrepreneurship, innovation, education and politics and goodness of the people of the United States the world would be tangled, depressing mass of backward thinking, oppressive dictatorships. Think North Korea, Iran.

    Reply

  194. “You and MCCFR should move to France together”

    riiiiiight. I’m sorry my mistake, you aren’t those things, you’re just a bigoted dickhead who thinks that the United states would be better if liberals left the country. As a free thinker you sure as hell don’t use much logic. Anyway, I don’t have time for your anger and your masturbation on this thread.

    Reply

  195. “Everything you eat, drink, sleep, wear, listen to today was either invented or discovered or produced or made better by someone from the United States.”

    Italian pizza is better, and your beer is crap. In fact, you boil all the flavour out of your food, and Hershey’s chocolate tastes like a block of vegetable fat sprinkled with cocoa.

    As for the American spirit of education, ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha……..

    Come on, you have to admit that your argument is so full of holes it’s like cheese (the best comes from Switzerland).

    Why don’t you call me on the MOBILE TELEPHONE (Finland), or use a JET AIRPLANE (France) to visit and tell me I’m wrong?

    Reply

  196. A belief in God is not necessarily a bad thing for an individual. Many of the teachings are simply about being fair and decent and honest (something a neo-con knows nothing of and the Christian right fail to understand).

    The leader of the only superpower being a Christian nutjob, using words like “Crusade”, is definitely a bad thing. A very bad thing indeed.

    America’s government is leaning too far towards Christian intolerance (it’s a war on Islam as much as it is on ‘terror’ or for oil or regime change). It needs to be secular. The president should keep his religious beliefs for private or personal public moments. It should not be part of his official public image. It sets an appalling example.

    Some of the reasons for founding America were for freedom from religious persecution. This is why secularism is enshrined in the constitution. Christian creationist nutjobs in the US mistakenly believe it was founded as a Christian nation. IT WAS NOT!

    Persecution of Christians in America: Say What?

    So Christians deserve as much protection in the constitution as every other religion or choice. But they certainly do no deserve more. They should not be able to amend the constitution to do that. If they do, they destroy the fundamental nature of America.

    Reply

  197. According to not MCCFR, to be opposed to Bush’s government is to be anti-American. To be opposed to one’s own government is somehow wrong.

    This is the old ‘you’re either with us or against us’ polar nonsense. By that token, almost 50% of the voting American people are anti-American.

    That’s as absurd as saying Buddhists are anti-American because they’re not Christians.

    G-Spank is right on the money. Your replies are simply lacking logical thought.

    And did we ever get the links to the Happy Iraqi blogs ? I don’t remember seeing them.

    Reply

  198. American instructions: Say

    ” Everything you eat, drink, sleep, wear, listen to today was either invented or discovered or produced or made better by someone from the United States.”

    Repeat as often as needed until you believe it.
    Repeat as often as needed unitl you make it truth.

    Well I can see you want to make the Americans the master race. Seig Bush.

    Oh and for some truth to your claim. The most effecient method of converting light energy into chemical energy is still unsurpassed by you feeble yanks.

    Your ego on the other hand, well I have to admit, nothing I have seen surpasses that.

    But sometimes you yanks can be surpassed.
    You can bully some of the people some of the time.
    You can bully all of the people some of the time.
    But you will never, ever bully all of the people all of the time.

    Reply

  200. “Everything you eat, drink, sleep, wear, listen to today was either invented or discovered or produced or made better by someone from the United States.”

    This is a joke right – no really, it must be.

    American cuisine is an oxymoron. Coca-Cola is sugared water with caramel and caffeine.

    Everything I sleep?? WHAT THE FUCK DOES THAT EVEN MEAN. Americans sleep better or more than us – well that explains the general corpulence of the country, but I had absolutely no idea that sleep (an autonomic body function as far as I’m aware) could actually be improved simply by being American.

    And Giorgio Armani is definitely better than Levis Jeans (German), or Tommy Hilfiger (Scandinavian) or even your “native” designers like Donna Karan or Ralph Lauren.

    As for everything I listen to: the MP3 format was developed in Europe and I once heard that much of Dolby Laboratories initial money-generating work back in the Sixties was done in the glamorous confines of Camden in North London. And CDs were invented by little Dutch men in Eindhoven and I seem to recall the audio format for DVD-A is actually the work of a British audio company.

    That and the fact that British loudspeaker technology is still the most widely respected in the world.

    I know it goes against the grain for Americans to not believe that they invented everything, but really you didn’t. Although you did steal a heck of a lot.

    Reply

  201. If it was not for America defeating the Germans in Europe in WWII all you Europeans would all be speaking German, all blacks, Jews and other minorities would be wiped out.

    If it were not for America standing up against the Soviet Union in the Cold War all you “free thinking” Europeans would be either Stalinized or in some gulag or dead.

    Nothing we have in todays would be if it were not for Americans. Even your Apple computer was created by an American.
    The internet you use to moan about America was developed and commercialized by America. This website (I believe) is run by an American.

    If it was not for Americans standing up to the oppressors of the world there would be no MP3 developed in Europe or Dolby Laboratories or any of it. You would either be a part of the Third Reich or a colony of the Soviet Union.

    Years from now when liberty, freedom and democracy has spread through the Middle East the world will look back at these times and realize again – it took the United States to take the hard road and lead to a better world….again.

    To all you non-Americans, spend your efforts complaining about your own do-nothing governments. You can�t vote in our elections, we do not care for your whining.

    Reply

  202. “If it was not for spirit of creation, entrepreneurship, innovation, education and politics and goodness of the people of the United States the world would be tangled, depressing mass of backward thinking, oppressive dictatorships. Think North Korea, Iran.”

    <sarcasm>Now I see, let all nations of the world surrender to the will of the Dumbest man in Earth, coz he’s right by the law.</sacrasm>

    Nazis. Thats what you are.

    Reply

  206. As we’re all living in the past and taking credit for old glories, can I mention that if it wasn’t for the British beating Napoleon, everyone in the universe would now be speaking French? And I mean the entire universe!!!

    Reply

  207. “What country are you from?”

    You don’t know how is to live in a “democratic” country where the “president” has to lick the balls out of the US president just to be sure someday we will not be considered terrorists, communists, dictators, or whatever the US think we are in the “historic momentum”, and then invade us, kill a lot of innocent people, mititarize the government and implant a new “democracy” a la American, with a government that will only serve US interests, plague us of McDonalds and Walmart, and then claim that now the new country is free.

    And, in case you were thinking, it is not Cuba.

    Reply

  208. Isn’t it rather funny that all Americans (and I mean all) are bloody immigrants fleeing from poverty and oppression. So WTF are they trying to do by exporting said same problems to the rest of the world.

    Furthermore, had the UK NOT stood up to Hitler (admittedly belatedly) in 1939 and threw away its Empire to do so (and remember we were still in hock to the yanks for 1914-18) there would have been NO platform for the US to invade and bomb the sh*t out of Europe. (Nothing new here!) I’d love to see LSTs set out from Manhattan for Normandy-imagine those poor puking GI’s stumbling out onto festung Europa once the Germans had twigged it was on its way, NOT. I wonder what the remaining allies think of Uncle Sam hogging all the glory? My impression is that it was a collaborative effort. Remember ULTRA?

    Had the UK fought on in 1940, the Russians would have ultimately beaten the Germans, but it would doubtless have taken much longer and been a much closer finish as the German war Economy would not have been under direct attack from the UK. I seem to recall that Speer blamed the US/UK air attacks for the collapse of the German War effort. But it was the RUSSIANS who applied the killer punch – Think Stalingrad, think Kursk, Think BERLIN. The rest was a sideshow. With Europe, Africa and Asia closed to it I somehow think the US would have turned in on itself and given up. It was certainly capable of doing just that, there were plenty of voices around at the time saying just that.

    Remember also that it was as a direct result of supporting the UK that the US war machine got a kick start with production of meterial. The P-51 Mustang was crap til we put a British Merlin in it. And who ordered it in the first place? NOT the US of A!

    Therefore I would be grateful if some of you gungho US rednecks would STFU until you have read a proper history book and realised that the world DOES not revolve solely for your benefit, and that a good many Englishmen, Scotsmen, Welsh, Irish, French, Dutch, Norwegians, Danes, some of your own countrymen and a staggering number of Russian, men women and children died to allow YOU spit out some of the filth you are currently pushing out. Something about free speech there I think.

    That we are having this discussion so close to 11/11 saddens me somewhat. That date commemorates somewhat more than the 3500 unfortunates of 9/11.

    Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells!

    Reply

  209. Bistdu Einarsch:

    Well, as long as you use our natural resources and borrow our money to pay for your credit boom, that’s too fscking bad now isn’t it.

    Guess what, you are only 250 million odd people out of a world population of many billions – so you don’t have a mandate from us to do whatever you want, considering that your actions affect us as much as they do you.

    So, we have a right to put in our opinions. The alternative is that we all pack up our bags and leave the US to its own devices which would be politically disasterous for GWB, given that you’ll then have 100% of the body bags coming back to the USA.

    Reply

  211. FoF:

    Not to mention Canadians, Australians, New Zealanders.

    But you’re asking people who have decided that instinct is more important than intelligence to use rationality and reason.

    Instinctively, Saddam needed to be deposed and was obviously involved with Al Qua’ida, and when the intelligence suggested otherwise, it was changed to meet political needs.

    Intelligence tells us that 10 times more people die in the USA every year in firearms-related incidents than died on 9/11, and yet President Bush failed to show moral leadership when the Assault Weapons ban needed to renewed because instinct says that the American public needs to be able to defend itself against Islamic fundamentalists walking down Main Street. The fact that the NRA makes the vast majority of its contributions to Republican candidates is doubtless a mere coincidence.

    So we have the bizarre concept of an Executive and Legislative branch moving the Judiciary to the right, endangering a woman’s right to choose on reproductive matters and probably preventing embryo research, merely so that the resulting adult can be gunned down by an automatic rifle twenty years later.

    Reply

  212. woman’s right to choose

    person A: I believe that life begins at conception. What kind of person am I not to fight against abortion.

    Some people don’t see it as a woman’s right to choose.
    Welcome to democracy

    Reply

  213. As seen by the many non-Americans who have written above, we Americans must realize that there are people out there that are hoping and praying that America will fail.
    They wake up each morning hoping that a terrorist will attack America to “put us in our place”. Nothing would make MCCFR or opl and the other non-Americans on this forum any happier than to watch Bin Laden nuke the U.S.
    They would clap their hands in glee, saying, “They deserved it!”
    These negative people laugh and mock us Americans, wishing only for bad things for the United States in the hopes of bringing America down to their weak, pitiful, powerless, socialist level where principle is sold out and everything in Europe and the Middle East is decided with an under-the-table bribe to a government official.

    Reply

  214. The Observer:

    You people can’t stop dealing polar opposites.

    I like America, I even like Americans, I just have a problem with the current administration.

    Compare this with my attitude to France. I like France. I like nearly every French person I’ve ever met, except some of the ones in Paris who have a tendency to be a bit snotty. I have a problem with every French administration.

    My problem is that I think politicians (with the aid of the media) have created a climate of hysteria where you genuinely believe you are going to get nuked, whereas the real problem is you’re going to have a suicide bomber walk into the lobby of a major news organisation or a bank.

    We’re being sold a huge nightmare, whilst the “average” reality is more prosaic – and our friends and relatives are being sent into a war that does nothing to address that “reality” except create more “martyrs” for the cause.

    And next to nobody is watching out for that threat, because you’re committing reservists to the Middle East theatre which leaves national security solely to the FBI.

    As a closing point, my company has an office in the States and someone whom I regard as a friend running it � he is mere miles from a major Marine base, why on earth would I want the USA hit?

    Reply

  215. I voted for bush because I’m retarded, dull and impressed by people like me… Bush is an inspiration for my dreams. I like his accent, his eyes are truly wonderful and I just trust him when I’m stoned. I feel safe with him because I know he won’t send me to iraq to fight his war. I voted for him beaucoup people are jealous of our freedom and our MacDonald burgers. We have the best reality shows in the world that’s why there are terrorists who hate us. USA, USA. USA. God bless America. Screw the rest axis of evil.
    Kill Michael Moore, Bomb France and Germany. We are the best in this world and the rest sucks noodles.

    Reply

  217. A true frenchman is more like it. You’ve shown your true colors low life. The US hates France. We don’t think at all about France unless we have to. Disgusting leaders and Paris is full of slime balls. Bush will continue to kick terrorist ass! I love it! You anti-american eurotrash can F*CK OFF! I’m glad as hell that we bother you!

    Reply

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