“Microsoft’s marketing coup in selling Delta Airlines its Surface 2 tablet for use as an Electronic Flight Bag in place of Apple’s iPad created friction with the company’s pilots, who ‘fought hard’ against the deal,” Daniel Eran Dilger reports for AppleInsider.
“‘We fought hard for iPad’ a pilot working for the airline told AppleInsider. He described the Delta deal as being about money, travel contracts, and Delta’s Information Technology staff historically being ‘in bed’ with Microsoft,” Dilger reports. “Delta began trials with Apple’s iPad as an EFB in late 2011, shortly after the Federal Aviation Administration approved Apple’s tablet for cockpit use. It further began purchasing thousands of iPads for use in its airport restaurants last year. This makes it surprising that the company just announced plans to use the “Surface 2″ devices Microsoft just unveiled, particularly because the company says it only plans to be ‘fully operational within two years.'”
Dilger reports, “Delta’s conservative rollout plans may be related to the fact that the Surface 2 apparently hasn’t yet been studied for use as a EFB.”
Read more in the full article here.
[Thanks to MacDailyNews Reader “Jeff A.” for the heads up.]
MacDailyNews Take: If Delta is willing to go cheap on tablets for their flight crews, where else are they willing to go cheap?
If desperate Microsoft didn’t simply dump their flop into Delta cockpits for free, they probably paid Delta to take them. There is simply no other reason for Delta to consign their flight crews to years of having to try to use a failed product, a flop of epic proportions. All other competent airlines already use iPads for their EFBs. Even Delta did before this stupid, shortsighted about-face.
Delta management screwed the pooch with aplomb. Talk about a crash and burn! The idiot at Delta who signed off on this deal should be fired. Delta Airlines now just looks cheap and stupid.
Buh-bye, Delta. Unless you wise up, we will never, ever fly your crap outfit again. Hope your sellout was worth it.
Related articles:
JetBlue latest airline to replace bulky paper manuals with Apple iPad-based Electronic Flight Bags – June 26, 2013
American Airlines first commercial carrier with FAA approval to use Apple iPads in all phases of flight – September 11, 2012
Delta Airlines launches Fly Delta app for iPad with ‘Glass Bottom Jet’ feature – January 11, 2013
Delta Air Lines begins rollout of 2,500 iPads for passenger use in Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport – August 29, 2012
FAA approves iPads in the cockpit; American Airlines to start Friday – December 13, 2011
All Nippon Airways to deploy 6,000 Apple iPads to train stewards – September 22, 2011
Qantas trials Apple iPads as in-flight entertainment option – September 15, 2011
United Continental pilots get 11,000 Apple iPads – August 23, 2011
British Airways brings new dimension to customer service using Apple iPads – August 18, 2011
Delta gives Apple iPads to pilots as electronic flight bag replacements – August 17, 2011
Apple’s revolutionary iPad creates the paperless cockpit – July 5, 2011
Alaska Airlines pilots using Apple iPads in cockpit – May 23, 2011
Mission-critical Apple iPads in cockpits may hasten end of era for paper charts – March 7, 2011
FAA authorizes use of Jeppesen app on iPad to replace paper aeronautical charts – February 16, 2011
Fokker and Navtech introduces Electronic Flight Bag hardware for Apple’s revolutionary iPad – January 28, 2011
There goes Delta Pilots’ chance of getting laid. Pulling out the Surface 2 will be a-kin to the George Costanza “shrinkage” Seinfeld episode.
“…just got out of the pool!”
Wonder what line the pilots will use? “My mommy made me!” ?
I am totally with MDN on this one. No more Delta Airlines for me. I want to live.
Mark this as the 2nd time I agreed with you.
Control, I just turned on final and my Windows #$^%@#$% tablet went BSOD! Did I see a wind shear warning for runway 210? Wait! It’s working again! No…now it is stuck looking for a Skype connection. How do you CNTL-ALT-DELETE this thing?!
Seriously, no Delta for me. I hope Southwest stays with the iPad.
I just left a message at Delta.com. I could not locate a “Contact Us” link, so I used their Feedback link at the lower, right corner and chose “other”:
I just wanted to let Delta know that selling out to Microsoft for the Surface 2 tablet was a dumb idea. A lot of people are already talking boycott. Good luck with that.
It will be interesting to see Delta’s response, if any.
Can you provide us with a link to write them too?
The official place to send Delta a comment is at the top right of the screen on delta.com. It says “Comment / Complaint” and it goes right to customer service for their reply within 24 hours. I usually hear back from them in 8 hours.
… wrong.
Read the article. The source said “… Delta’s Information Technology staff historically being ‘in bed’ with Microsoft …”. IT staff very much prefers to work with the gear they are comfortable with – even if others claim there is better gear available. I faced considerable hostility both at Putnam Investments and at Morgan Stanley, was even told that if my “rogue gear” either failed or could be shown to have caused a problem I’d be fired. At one point my PowerMac was allowed to run some tests while I was waiting … discovered a minor bug in Firefox routine. (Safari? what’s a Safari?)
truth is I would feel unsafe with surface tablets in the pilots hands – so YES I will not fly DELTA
On Delta you’re just one “ctl-alt-del” away from a “crash”.
So they think two years will be enough time. Delta will probably never have an EFB. Better buy the pilots gym memberships. They’re going to be toting a lot of paper for a long time.
Well, one more reason I have not to fly Delta. Actually, I didn’t need anymore reasons to fly that POS airlines, but if they go cheap with the Surface, they are probably going cheap in other areas too.
One place try are not cheap is airfare. While I didn’t care much because it’s company money I’ll be looking to other airlines for future travel to the orient.
*they are not.
This is an interesting story and indeed, too bad for the crews. Things may yet change back in Apple’s favor.
But I’ve been pleased with Delta on international flights and will continue to enjoy their excellent business class service.
I took a trip on Delta last year, and what they call “first class” is more like “just about tolerable” class.
-jcr
An airline not heeding the judgment of its own pilots about which technology works best in the cockpit? That’s truly asinine.
We need more confirmation than Appleinsider, but I agree.
This is the same mistake RIM made with their end users.
RIM thought they new better what their customers wanted in the future and what they would buy, only to find their customers … would not buy BB.
Note: Boeing’s cockpit doesn’t run Windows. Ford found out why and I’m wondering how that will turn out in the end.
On the 787/777 there’s at least two XP based systems.
I continue to rue the day that Delta bought out Northwest, one of the best airlines ever.
Delta Airlines, working hand in hand with the people who brought you the Blue Screen of Death.
The blue screen of death FROM ABOVE.
Two years? Just as they are about to role out Surface 2 for EFB, Microsoft will decide they’ve lost enough money on Surface and EOL it. And Delta will keep using iPads.
“blue screen of death FROM ABOVE”
Yeah. Co-pilot shrugs and says, “hmmm, my tablet is plotting us a course into the wild blue yonder”. Picks up the intercom:
“Any passengers back there got a compass on their iPhone?”
The Compass app is integrated with the Level app now. Just in case you were looking for it. BOYCOTT, BOYCOTT, BOYCOTT!!!
GTD, what’s your point again?
Delta is a fine catch for Microsoft, who knows how the negotiations went…
Apple: How is the test going?
Delta: Great, just great but we got an offer from Microsoft.
Apple: Tell me about the deal.
Delta: We are getting them for free.
Apple: Can I see one of their units?
Delta: Sure, I have one right here.
Apple: Just what I thought. (takes penny, scratches off Windows Logo). I’ve been wondering what they were doing with those dozens of trade in’s for Surfaces, they are using them to demo EFB’s. Well, good luck with that.
Delta: But, but, free.
Microsoft wins again. Nobody ever got fired for choosing Microsoft. In the 1980’s and now in 2013. As long as the current IT lap dogs are alive, there will always be a place for Microsoft in their hearts. Apple never stood a chance. That would have been a pretty decent contract for Apple. Anyone wonders why Apple went down $6 today. The loss of the Delta contract was as good a reason as any.
If I was the pilot I’d either buy my own iPad or continue to use paper. I will not be flying Delta while this farce continues.
I can not believe Delta would do this after already performing the iPad testing. MSFT must have given product away for free. Can’t see any other rationale for performing a switch now
Try how much cash given by MS for each unit taken by Delta.
Well, yea, of course.
Microsoft wanted to go after Delta because they made the initial test. That way they will get the maximum publicity.
If they get Delta, they gain legitimacy in the eyes of the other airlines.
Let’s see what happens when Surface 2 Flops like the first one. 900 million dollars wasted. If DELTA continues with Surface 2 or 3, since MS can afford to waste billions on crap, then DELTA is bending over to let MS screw them from behind.
This makes it surprising that the company just announced plans to use the “Surface 2″ devices Microsoft just unveiled, particularly because the company says it only plans to be ‘fully operational within two years.’
Let’s be clear here. The MS Surface iPad wannabes are so POOR, there won’t BE ANY in two years. Total FAIL Delta.
I think you are wrong there, they are so POOR there will be a warehouse full of unsold units just waiting for Delta to take delivery.
That scary thought was in the back of my mind. With cobwebs all over them, infested with ‘crazy ants’ that have taken up residency. *shiver*
Wow… You’ll got the opinion of One Whole Pilot!! And also managed to pass a verdict on a product that hasn’t hit the market yet..
Astounding..
We are good that way!
Waa waa waaa.
We own iPads and like them overall, and we hate Win8, but some posters here have lost their minds. You’re going to boycott an airline because you don’t like the brand of electronic reference book the pilots carry? You don’t even know the brands of the electronics that are on airplanes now. Most people don’t even know or care what brand of airplane they step onto. Not that it matters; thanks to your big bad government, airplane manufacturers have to prove their safety and reliability to national standards. If this was not the case, then you might have reason to worry about one brand or another.
Since no one has offered an objective assessment as to WHY Delta is going with MS, I will.
In the business world, maybe user experience and thinness of packaging take a back seat to lifetime VALUE that is offered. Most businesses are very short-term in their outlook, and they’ll take the savings right now instead of paying a premium for a product that might be better in the long run — unless of course the high-quality product can prove itself. Well, Apple didn’t play ball.
If Apple can’t get serious about offering great value contracts to business customers — over 10,000 units for Delta — then iOS will lose more sales campaigns to new competitors. Apple has indeed done very well selling iPads to organizational customers thus far, but it has to stop the hubris and compete in the marketplace. Let’s hope this wakes up Apple so it offers businesses more flexibility, better value, and appropriate support services.
Some posters here need to turn off fanboy mode once in a while, because apologizing for Apple’s business failures is the sure sign of a non-objective thinker.
If you are on a Delta flight and a Pilot’s “electronic flight bag” experiences a “blue screen of death” at a critical time, YOU may experience a “blue screen of death” within two minutes with one exception- there is no “reboot” for you,
Yeah you don’t know anything about aviation mate.
Worst case scenario with a total loss of EFB systems is being talked down by ATC and maybe company HF/sat phone. This will never, ever cause an accident.
While an EFB was NOT involved with Air France 447, I was thinking of a situation like that. Multiple system failures and the pilots trying to refer to an inoperative electronic device for reference. Critical seconds could be lost dealing with the device. One thing about accident investigations is that ANYTHING could cause an accident.
“One thing about accident investigations is that ANYTHING could cause an accident.”
On the contrary, accidents occur only where multiple latent and active failures line up simultaneously. You need to realise the role of the EFB though. Every airline that I know of still carries two paper QRHs that constitute the primary reference in case of an emergency.
If you honestly believe that an EFB failure could bring down a plane, then that’s OK. I’ve seen multiple in-flight iPad failures and I’m still happy to have them out there doing their job.
Yet.
Ignorance. There is no chance.
Say what? ……Blue Screens? Haven’t seen one in years. Remember Microsoft pretty much took that feature away with Windows 7. Now Windows 8.1 simply takes snapshot runtime images constantly and it just boots right back up to where you were. Not that I like the design look of desktop, but it’s easy to customize now. Windows 8.1 upgrade is a definite keeper for me now!
BSOD doesn’t even exist any more. If there is a problem, there’s a momentary black screen and suddenly you’re back where you left off bringing back up what you had running. Most important though…. is at least Windows 8 can run multiple concurrent applications at once and enterprise customers can fully customise and secure the use experience.
Whereas even grade school kids recently very easily hacked their iPads in Los Angeles City Schools. The fact that there will now be two stores (one for enterprise and one for consumers) means at least Delta won’t be paying for their pilots fart and game apps!
Truth is Apple made it too easy to charge up App purchases not needed for Professional use. With full customization features and sandboxing the stores in Surface Pro 2 there is a World of difference in what Delta will be spending after post purchase!
You mean like this piece of crap?
@Rp: red herring much?
Airplanes are flown safely using the equipment permanently installed on them (which is required, proven reliable, and properly maintained per regulation). As Guy says, reverting to human communication is almost always possible. Reference books are helpful, not essential.
When problems occur, the last thing pilots do is look at maintenance & navigation manuals. The experienced pilot turns off autopilot, regains control, troubleshoots the sensor warnings as necessary, reports problem to tower or base as necessary and THEN, only if time allows, he can dink around with avionics and with the paper manuals OR new electronic reference books that they carry on board. Those can be useful for diversion to an unplanned landing at an unfamiliar airfield, but it in no way prevents a good pilot from flying and navigating the airplane safely — and, yes, putting that airplane down wherever it is necessary to do so off of his airport maps, including the Hudson River.
Delta boycotters, please tell us what the mean time between blue screens of death is on a Surface 2 compared to the mean time between iPad hard reboots. Have you tested them side by side? Or are you using religious fervor in place of objective testing?
Thanks Mike. There’s very little reason here.
No, Mike, the idiocy here is Delta selecting a device that is NOT FAA certified for cockpit use over one that has already been FAA certified (a process that alone takes about a year) and won’t be able to use it for the purpose until it is so certified. . . and one that DOES NOT have the applications or the maps already published for it, but will have to have them ported to it, and one that requires a SURFACE to sit on to use its stupid keyboard, plus it does not offer cellular connectivity if required. . . which was one of the benefits the pilots pointed out as of usefulness. This smacks of IT department arrogance. . . decisions based on familiarity with Microsoft’s limited range of offerings and turf protection.
Swordmaker,
FAA certification becomes easier with more redundancy. There will have to be EMI testing done however with a fixed hardware profile that’s relatively easy to do. A lot of the work done for the iPad will carry across to the Surface. It won’t take a year to do that, however the apps may take much longer.
Also a small point but you can get an onscreen keyboard on the surface, the cover is optional.
Given that iPads have been through all this certification and the leading chart application for them is still prone to deleting terminal charts in flight I Struggle to see how switching platforms constitutes a considerable risk.
Every airline in the world is watching this very closely.
It has nothing to do with the brand and everything to do with the quality of the product.
Safety first? Pffft.
#nodelta
No mike.
The posters are boycotting delta as they want to be alive.
Microsofts software is buggy at best, are you prepared to take your kids on a delta airlines long haul flight knowing too well that if there Microsoft tablets fail your kids and you could end up dead??
Thought not.
ah…. yes coming from a Apple fan that hasn’t even personally used a Surface Pro. The UI is actually working fantastic in the latest Beta of Windows 8.1 edition and I know having used Surface Pro in real life. I’ve picked up iPad Mini and full sized iPads at friends and relative’s house and I’m bored within a few minutes! …..I’m simply not impressed at all with the range of control and customization of Apple’s iOS. It’s for simple minded morons if you want to know the truth!
i2Fun, if you’re the sort of person who demands that level of customisation, you use an OS designed for it, like OS X on a PowerBook. If you don’t understand what the fundamental difference is between the two OS, regarding their intended user-base, then you’re clearly a simple-minded moron.
Speaking as someone who uses an iPad and iPhone extensively, and who worked with Macs professionally for twelve years, and who works with three people who’s daily job involves sitting in front of Macs, and who all use iPads.
Because they’re designed for different circumstances.
However, there are many, many people doing sophisticated work on iPads, with cleverly designed apps that allow it.
But you’re to dimwitted to understand such simple facts.
Additional comment
Is there any Microsoft written software either apps or operating systems that is “Flight Rated” in use in any airplane flying today? What about MS hardware?
no consumer electronics is “flight rated” — not Apple, not Microsoft.
Aviation electronics manufacturers certify their products to meet airplane design and government regulation. Non-essential equipment, such as these tablets, are handy for bureaucratic and reference purposes, and they can replace paper. They do not replace the mandatory equipment necessary to fly a plane. Nor will Apple likely ever do so, because Apple is acting less and less like a business-friendly supplier and more like a fashion house.
Just read the vast majority of the comments on these forums — most are as deep in their analysis as the hideous icons in iOS7. (That is not a compliment). Professionals — especially in high-overhead industries like aviation — care much more about the numbers. Reliability, durability, cost, MTBF, service contracts, interfaces with existing equipment, and so forth. Areas where Apple apparently refuses to compete.
Oh, and I looked up the reliability rate for airplanes: chance of catastrophic failure must be proven to occur less than one in a billion. Does an iPad meet this standard?
Does the Surface? Or better yet, how does the Surfac compare with an iPad? Other than the fact that it clicks…
Mike, you don’t know what you are talking about.
Hi Rp,
Boeing’s integrated Class 3 EFB systems run on Windows XP and Linux partitions.
“Ladies and Gentleman, please bare with us as we continue in our holding pattern while we try to find an unbroken Surface”
This gives a whole new meaning to the term “blue screen of death”
Yes, i was just about sending this:
“Mayday, Mayday! We are about crashing! We have a blue screen of death on our Windows tablet!… plus 200 passengers in the back!!!…”
@James… would have been a good post except for the ‘bare’. English not a strong point, then?
Not only will I not fly Delta (or sit in a Ford with the engine running), but now I have a fear of flying. There’s a lot of Delta planes up there and one of them could hit me while the pilots are distracted trying to figure out how to use the Surface.
I value my and my family’s lives too much to entrust them to an MS Surface. What on earth are they thinking??!!
#nodelta
As someone who is heavily involved with the EFB program at an international airline, I can most definitely comment on this with some authority.
This is not a matter of cost. This is a matter of integrated system control. I have deployed iPads at my airline because Apple had the jump on every other vendor and the pilot union got behind them in a big way. My hand was forced to establish a self-contained EFB system and Apple provided the path of least resistance.
Now things are not so simple. The Apple way is not necessarily the best for a tightly-controlled environment. For example, we have internally developed apps that must go through a rigorous testing process before deployment. Several of these apps do not work in iOS7 and the testing process for the updated versions will take weeks to complete. In the meantime we have no way of preventing pilots from updating to iOS7, which in turn breaks key functionalities that we need in the system. And all because Apple will not allow profiles to block iOS version updates.
That’s only one example. There are many more providing compelling reasons to look toward windows RT or android to provide the control needed.
“In the meantime we have no way of preventing pilots from updating to iOS7…”
I was with you until that part. With all due respect, that’s nonsense. My wife just issued over 30 iPads to employees at her business. They are locked down tighter than a drum. Based on orders from the owner the employees can only run installed apps, can’t update apps, can’t uninstall apps, can’t install new apps, can’t access Safari, can only use the installed email account and they certainly cannot update the OS. All of those tasks are managed by the I.T. dept.
Apple has extensive Enterprise support services ready and wiling to assist businesses with setting up any Apple product to the owner’s specifications.
The issue (at least for my airline) is that we have a militant pilot union and lots of modern feel-good HR metrics like “associate engagement” and “company involvement” that mean our pilots have to be allowed to install whatever apps they want on their systems. Unfortunately we can’t let this happen without also giving them the freedom to update iOS at will. I would love to lock these things down but it’s pretty much an all-or-nothing approach with kiosk mode, especially as our pilots need to be able to reference manuals for study when they are not on duty.
My experience with Apple’s enterprise support has been unsatisfactory, to say the least.
Bull shit
In what way?
“As someone who is heavily involved with the EFB program at an international airline, I can most definitely comment on this with some authority.”
And as a senior official at the FAA I can tell you you you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
See, anybody can do that. Bring no facts whatsoever and draw conclusions based on his (or her) claimed expertise.
Trouble is you really don’t gave a clue how these kinds of things work. (you are so full of crap that even those not involved with commercial flight recognize it) Why don’t you go back to playing your MMO/FPS on your “rad” homebuilt gamerz PC and leave the Apple news forums to the apple users (or better yet do like you mom is asking and get off your butt, get a job and out of the basement)
You’re right.. I can’t prove anything without being dumb enough to identify myself or my airline.
You can believe whatever you want, doesn’t change the reality of what I do for a living.
More bull shit.
Once again, in what way? I’m happy to offer any proof that you can think of that won’t identify myself or the airline I work for.
This proves that Delta isn’t the right client for Apple.
You imagine the crap feedback they are going to get from using the surface 2 tablets – especially after using iPads!
This decision has purely been made on cost and brainwashing by the Microsoft coolaid addicts that work in Delta. Anyone under 40yrs would never had made that decision.
BTW Delta, Apple offer a lower priced ipad called the iPad mini – even kids can afford those!
Oh dear. Whoever made this decision hasn’t been paying attention to Microsoft’s non-Windows products over the past decade. They will abandon the Surface as a platform if it doesn’t start making them serious profit, just as they did with every platform they’ve been introducing. What do Delta do then?
I can only think that Microsoft have actually paid Delta to do this. No IT Director in his right mind should be doing this unless there was MAJOR financial incentive.