Mac user Thorsten Raasch has created an online petition, “FireWire ports in Apple consumer notebooks,” which reads:
To: Apple Inc.
We all love your products, Apple Inc.! But your recently refreshed line of consumer notebooks lacks the possibility to plug in digital audio and video equipment as well as fast mass storage devices. Therefore, we pledge to purchase a new MacBook or MacBook Air if you, the inventor of FireWire technology, would be so kind to bring back FireWire ports to those products.
Sincerely,
The Undersigned
MacDailyNews Note: As of 8:52am EDT, the petition has 8,568 total signatures.
More information and links to view and/or sign the petition here.
[Thanks to MacDailyNews Reader “David” for the heads up.]
Signed!
Signed, also!
unless this thing reaches at least above 50,000 then apple will brush it off. after that apple will think about it and still won’t include it. it’s a unibody now peopl, precise manufacturing goes into it, it would be a BIG deal to add another port to the process. cut your losses and move on!!! soon or later you’ll have to replace your old stuff. just suck it up and go on, it’s ok trust me, it’s just a firewire port there will be solutions, there always is in the computer world. Apple really doesn’t give a sh*t what you have to say, look at the iPhone, I’m sure millions have signed several dfferent petitions for MMS and Video Recording. Haven’t seen it yet have you, NO!!! and thats just a simple software add in. GET OVER IT!! I am tired of firewire taking up all this space. and that’s all i got to say about that.
Where’s the petition for bringing back floppy drives?
I’m still pissed off about losing them.
Juvenile and useless. Especially the part about “pledging to buy a new MacBook.” What a joke.
As if anyone believes that all those who sign will actually buy a MacBook. Did the person who wrote this drivel think that putting that in constituted a convincing argument? High School, totally high school.
I’ll say it again for the record also…
To put in the FireWire, they would have to take out one of the USB’s. As someone who’s actually used the MacBook Air and knows a lot of others who use them, I can tell you that only having one USB port is way more of a problem to a much larger group of folks than not having FireWire is.
Why should Apple inconvenience a much larger group of normal people in order to placate a small group of cheap and highly vocal idiots who can’t get over themselves?
fire wire causes global warming. get rid of it. I gave you the internet love on that forever!!!!
When Apple dropped the phone modem in the new MacBook Pro that I got, they offered a USB to phone modem adapter. So, I got the adapter.
Apple or a 3rd party could (or may already) make an adapter for the FireWire. I use my FireWire more than I connect a 2nd video screen. That would have been the port to drop on the entry laptop models.
I’ve already given you my final word on the matter:
http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/joyarchives/1164.html
This is a bunch of whining! If you want firewire, then buy a MacBook or a MacBook Pro. As a shareholder, I would prefer Apple keep the profit margin exactly where it is! Don’t cannibalize the MacBook Pro sales to make a bunch of whiners happy.
I’ve contacted ACORN to help us in this matter….
The same type of petition sprouted up when the iPod lost firewire.
The petition will do nothing for marching ahead on a consumer product.
Get a Pro
“I’ve contacted ACORN to help us in this matter….”
Don’t forget to add Diebold and the Volusia County, FL voting officials.
Get a life, stuff a cork in it… Either buy a new Camera that uses USB or buy, the White MacBook or buy a Macbook Pro.
The wally types above don’t have any Firewire drives that they rely on to do their job, they don’t own FW cameras or older FW iPods, they don’t use Target Disk Mode on a daily basis and they don’t give a crap if you do.
The wally thinks that only his opinion counts and that if you have a problem you’re an idiot.
Jeremy, I can say from first hand experience Apple does listen to its customers.
Oh, and by the way, only an wally would think the plural of USB is USB’s.
Now THAT’S juvenile and useless.
Is there not a firewire 800 port on the new books?
There are plenty of adapters out there to satisfy anyone with the need.
If you need firewire 400 add a firewire 400 2 port express card.
Problem solved!
Get over it blah blah.
Go spend another $700 more because Apple took FW away blah blah.
I don’t give a crap if you have invested in FireWire, Apple has moved on blah blah.
Just deal with it and blow more money on new stuff blah blah. It’s only money blah blah.
As posted at http://forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php?p=1327050#post1327050 Comment # 684
Why would you want to upgrade to a new Macbook if you have invested heavily in FW video or FW HD considering that your current Macbook is faster and the benchmark tests for video editing is equal or better?
Now if you want to play games, and you don’t need FireWire for that…
Gee, Wally, what’s that in your mouth?
-Beaver
@Doug
There is Firewire 800 on the Macbook Pros but not on Macbooks. There is also no express card slot on the Macbooks so no option there either.
as a stockholder i would argue leaving out firewire was a very bad business decision (alomost of cubian magnitude). even if 90% of potential buyers are perfectly fine with no firewire, putting off so many people who have invested in firewire-camcorders, digicams, hd etc. is just stupid. lost two people who now have each bought a sony vario instead (for roughly 1000 euros) because they needed IEEE1394 and coudn’t justify 2000 euros on a macbook pro. not only because of the money but also they wanted a smaller screen. they both didn’t like the white macbooks but loved the new macbooks and where as much ready to switch as one can be. so no sell here.
@ Jeremy: Amen.
This petition drive is far too stupid for words. If you want all the features, buy the “pro” product. Or buy the legacy Macbook, which still has the FW port. But take your whining and stuff it. Yes, I have a Firewire video camera (miniDV). Guess what? I recognize that technology marches forward. It’s not like Apple declared that FW was now somehow evil and would not be supported in any of their products. I’ll say it again – if you want all the features, buy the bigger machine. Of course, we’d all like it if the MacBook Air contained every port known to man, and additionally provided an anti-gravity field, – as long as they didn’t change the form factor or increase the price. Wake up to reality. There are design and marketing choices that must be made in bringing a product to market. Guess what? Apple has a pretty good record of making them correctly.
Another damn Bush conspiracy….
there are options out there for you to buy!! if you are relying on a laptop for your work, what da hell are you buying a 13″ macbook for anyway, this model is based for people doing basic things, you should be using a PRO model if it’s that important to you. and don’t give me this it’s 700 more crap, it’s an investment is it not for your job or your business. I have firewire everything also but i am not going to buy a 13″ macbook for my business. Obviously you love holding onto older technology and you want to the newest thing to compliment your dinasour stuff. You don’t see anyone complaining about floppy and old tape drive do you.
700 dollar difference, still want just a macbook but not go pro.
hmm….
$500 or less should get you a descent HD camera via USB2
$200 or less you can find terabyte drives all over the place again via USB2
Problem solved. no more post please. I couldn’t imagine someone needing more than a terabyte if your sole computer is a laptop. you would have to have a serious porn collection for that.
NOT signed.
Message to Apple: IGNORE
You mean all I have to do to be a pro is buy a more expensive computer?
And then hook it up to all the peripherals that I have scrimped to buy, because I thought since Apple developed the technology, and it is still the best answer out there for LARGE file transfers, that they wouldn’t drop it to save a few bucks, because moving forward means offering a better solution, or an adapter that works as fast?
Stupid argument.
@Jeremy
If you don’t use firewire just don’t sign but why tou have to trash people because they think different from you? This i s a valid petition. A lot of people had invested in Firewire which is a standard in Audio & Video equipments, it was invented and promoted by Apple AND is a SUPERIOR technology than USB 2.
not signed.
get over it, you bunch of troglodytes….
I do have a beef though.
i’ll buy a new macbook when they are cheaper than the old macbook. (currently the UK price has increased).
@Jeremy & Jeremy’s alter ego
I cannot see how this petition can harm anybody’s interest. Are you radically opposed to the FW port? One can always try to be heard. Maybe Apple Inc. will listen, and the next gen MacBook will have FW again. Maybe, they will consider the customer’s reaction and keep FW on the iMacs after the next product cycle. And perhaps they won’t give a sh!t, or the design really does not allow an additional port. Either way, it is good to give Apple feedback on their decisions.
Personally, I’d rather dispense with the built-in optical drive and have an SD card slot instead, for bootable, read-only SD cards housing the system. An external DVD-R can be connected via Firewire, to rip DVDs on the hard drive, and for old-fashioned software vendors.
Is there in the market an FireWire-to-USB adaptor?
If so, I’m no signing.
I’m a FireWire user too. I have a MacBook Pro (the previous version), and I edit video. And I understand the frustration of users like me.
If there’s no adaptor, I’d be “whining”too. There’s no point in buying a new camera or a bigger computer because of a port.
But if an adaptor is the answer, this shouldn’t be a big deal.
Correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t Steve Jobs said at one time that the market doesn’t know what it really wants and that he has to show them?
Truly truly he was correct. The market is really clueless sometimes and Steve really has to sigh and patiently show them what they need.
It seems outrageous and not always is Steve correct. But this time he is.
For da luv of gawd children………..FireWire is DEAD!!!!!!
@ Jeremy,
On the other hand, getting a USB hub is easy and costs almost nothing.
I’m finding very difficult to find an adaptor for FireWire.
So, perhaps 1 USB / 1 FireWire would have not been such a bad idea.
Just an opinion….
For those with Firewire peripherals, right now the best solution if you can’t afford a New Macbookpro, is to buy the Old MacBookPro which is selling right now for much less than a New one, at a price close to that of a high end MacBook. The big deal is you will get both Firewire 400 and 800 in one machine, which is much better than the existing MacBook which has only Firewire 400.
There is lots of inventory right now of the superseded machines from which to choose.
Firewire will not be reintroduced into the MacBook stream – even the new HD cameras use USB2, and these come with adapters which fit into the USB slot, no cable needed. Target mode via Ethernet cables will be possible, apparently.
What amazes me is how easily people dismiss a superior technology.
Face it, FW 400 EASILY bests USB 2.0 in EVERY measurable way, from data transfer rates to the handling multiple devices yada yada…
It’s hardly fair for people to state things like “I want my floppy” (tongue in cheek), because compared to FW, USB 2.0 IS THE FLOPPY DISC.
I’m a “Wally”?? What the heck is a “Wally”??? Are you talking about that guy from “Leave it to Beaver.” I guess I’d rather be him than “The Beave.”
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Oh, and my deepest apologies for putting the errant apostrophe in “USBs,” I hope that doesn’t totally invalidate my remarks.
I signed this because Apple’s decision has eliminated choice for customers between laptops. If they need Firewire, they only have one choice. That’s not good.
Apple will sell 10 million Macs in the next 365 days with or without those complaining about Firewire. If you think this petition will matter, you are wrong. The 50,000 signatures suggested above is a meager .05%.
Apple quit pandering to their old niche market a few years ago with the switch to intel. That doesn’t mean they don’t make pro level machines for people like me, but they’re no longer going to make the Mac mini or the MacBook a professional workhorse.
I have two-FireWire audio input devices, three FireWire drives and a DV camcorder, but I’m not under the delusion that Apple’s most basic notebook should suit my needs. And no, the Air is not their most basic notebook – it’s targeted at those that need ultimate portability.
The MacBook is the consumer level notebook that my mother, sister and wife all use – none of them use the FireWire port. If you’re reading the Mac news and rumor sites, you can just about guarantee that you’re not the target of a Macbook as your main computer.
I want an ELEPHANT! Where is my ELEPHANT! When I buy a laptop I expect an ELEPHANT!
@ Grifterus,
USB2 is technically incapable of sustained data transfers at speeds necessary to copy realtime video from a Firewire camcorder. A Firewire-USB2 adapter would be utterly useless in this case.
By poor analogy: say you’re used to streaming live HD content over gigabit ethernet, and your ethernet port suddenly stops working. There are Ethernet to USB adapters (for PC anyway, but ignore this for now).
Gigabit ethernet transfers at 1000 Mbps. USB2 peaks at 480 MBps. It doesn’t matter that an adapter exists so you can network through USB, you won’t be streaming that content in any decent quality.
Look, the reason Apple removed FW from MacBooks is because they didn’t want it to cannibalize MacBook Pro sales. This is completely understandable. Those who need it will have to spend $700 more. Otherwise, many who need the faster graphics would have opted to go for the MacBook instead since they are comparable to old MacBook Pros.
I can understand having to put off a more expensive computer for a few months, but not buying a cheaper Sony vaio because it has FW. Does software not matter anymore?
Waaaah, Waaaaah, mommy that bad boy took away my firewire, waaaahhh! Did your old Macbook WITH firewire suddenly stop working? Get over it.
You know, you folks have no sense of empathy.
If BMW simply stopped putting an parking brake on their 300 series car, do you think there would be an uproar?
I’m guessing that certain of you would be saying, “Who needs a parking brake. It’s old technology. You can just put your car in Park. Shut up and get over it. If you need a parking brake, then buy the 500 series for $10,000 more. Just shut up!”
Some people park on hills and like the extra functionality that a parking brake gives. Some people think that since every 300 series for the past 10 years has had a parking brake, it’s not unreasonable to expect this year’s model to have it as well.
Just because a parking brake is not something you personally need or use does NOT make that true for everyone.
“Face it, FW 400 EASILY bests USB 2.0 in EVERY measurable way, “
Except COST and MARKET ACCEPTANCE and PRESENCE ON ANY OF THE NEXT GENERATION OF PROSUMER CAMERAS.
“If they need Firewire, they only have one choice. That’s not good.”
They have two choices, one for $999 and one for $1999+. And right now you can get an old pro brand new for about $1600. Heck you only have 4 choices for laptop models anyway and FireWire’s still on half of them, one at each end of the price range.
That said, I’d be all for adding ExpressCard to the MacBook, then everybody can add whatever legacy interfaces they like.
@loopy
my two friends are longtime windows-user ready to switch. they looked at what apple has to offer and not having firewire on a 1200 euro machine was the dealbraker. they didn’t want a 15″ screen (to big, to heavy) and didn’t want the old white one eighter. they loved the new macbook. it was perfect, but none of them could justify to buy a new camcorder or digicam in addition. plain and simple, two lost customers for apple because of leaving out a 1$ port.
This argument is going exactly the way the imovie hd vs the imovie 08 one did.
Damn! I’ve already ordered a new MacBook so taking the pledge is impossible…. Not sure I would have signed the petition however. Lack of FireWire is indeed an issue to me but a minor one.
All you idiotic fanboys defending Steve-O for deleting Firewire from MacBooks are pathetic. YOU are the whiners defending a corporation that does not give a **** about you.
If anything the MacBook should have gotten an upgrade to FW800 not a downgrade to nothing. As products evolve they should received better/higher/more technology advances. NOT lose them.
You make me sick.
The floppy drive was semi-obsolete when it was ditched in favor of new tech. The Firewire port was not replaced with ANYTHING.
This is an opportunity for someone to build a compact USB to Firewire converter and sell it for a tidy profit – Belkin? Kensington? Logitech?
http://esd.element5.com/product.html?productid=300050843&stylefrom=527950&noquickbuy=1
well, not cheap, but fairly compact.
@Ralph from Berlin
It was my understanding that all of the new digicams and camcorders have forsaken FireWire for USB 2.0. Did your friends check the specs on these devices before they dismissed the new MacBooks?
@Steve516
“http://esd.element5.com/product.html?productid=300050843&stylefrom=527950&noquickbuy=1
well, not cheap, but fairly compact.”
Windows XP only!!
Why does disagreement bring out the horses ass in people like loopy_nj, etc? Is it some how un-American to express disappointment with Apple’s design decision or to be frustrated by their cavalier lack of discussion?
The fact is that leaving out the FW port on the MacBook changed the nature of the machine from a compact Swiss Army Knife that could do audio, video, and computing fairly well to a device that can’t do some things at all. We were looking forward to an even better Swiss Army Knife with mono-block construction, LED backlighting, better graphics implementation and brilliant physical assembly, but we got a Gerber E-Z-Out Clip Point, still good, but not as useful. It’s easy enough to ignore a feature you have but don’t need, damned near impossible to use a capability that’s just not there. There are dozens of reasons to keep FW in, but none I can see for making it go away.
Still, I doubt all of the wailing and gnashing of teeth is going to result in reintroduction of FW to the MacBook. The way to make money in consumer products is to make a gazillion things just the same. Adding one small, but significant difference requiring a different case and i/o board would run counter to that approach. Bummer.
My strategy is this: I need the small form factor of the 13″ screen. I need FW. I’ll keep using my 2GHz Core Duo MacBook as long as it works, still has a year to go under AppleCare. When it fails or Apple drops the last plastic MacBook with FW, I’ll jump on the Apple Store and buy the best refurb 13″ MacBook with FW I can find, along with AppleCare. That’ll insure 3 more years of having my needs met with MacBooks. Then we’ll see. Maybe I’ll start doing curls now in case I’m forced to start lugging a MacBook Pro around in four years.
for Audio this sucks.. no descent USB audio interface exists. And will never exist, due to the technical flaws of USB (as mentioned before).
I don’t need to buy a new mac now, but USB2 will still suck in a year, and then I’d need to invest 700 more for 1 port, and a bigger screen which I don’t want, I want it small, for on the road. So I’d have a buy an iMac too, for firewire? I mean, common, FW isn’t ready to be ditched, as no alternative exists for realtime data streams.
And as we all know, the mac’s are especially popular in exactly the businesses where that is very much needed. Audio/Video.
I’d be glad to spend 10 dollars on a FW port (that’s a lot more then the actualy production cost). But not 1000+ dollars extra to have a small laptop & having to buy a new computer with firewire.
Oh well, seems that I could try and install OSX on a vaio.
I agree with raskol.
Moving forward with technology is totally fine with me. If this thing had 2 USB3 ports or some new supa-dupa port that superseded f/w then fine. But really, everyone is barking on about moving forward with technology and f/w is 10+ years old but we have replaced it with NOTHING! Yeap – absolutely nothing. For that matter – how old is USB2? Would suggest a good 4-5 years. Hey, lets remove those ports as well, old tech. What – no connectivity? …. connectivity is for Wimps. YES – lets remove the Ethernet port as well for good measure. That’s more like it. Power and wireless is all you need.
What with this constant whinging for an entire week by a select few on every thread on the same issue, I have a strong notion no one is reading anyone’s comments this far down.
With that in mind, here are my two apples:
1. Not signing anything, I’m happy with my MB Pro where I am yet to use the FW port for anything; and I do use my Nikon D300 quite extensively.
2. All of you who are whining and are supposedly great Apple fans dying to purchase the MB only if… please consider switching to Dell/HP etc. with Windows/Linux etc. and take the whining there. While at it, take the entire CNET, ZDNet, InformationWeek, InfoWeek, and teams of AAPL analysts with you, and careful not to let the door hit you on your collective mass-asses on your sorry way out.
Peace etc.
MDN MW: second
My parents and all my siblings (and their significant others) have Macs – 10 Macs total, one per person. Only one of us uses Firewire for anything, and he has professional music recording equipment.
Complain about Apple’s decision to remove Firewire all you like, but I’m guessing this pattern is consistent – those using Firewire are either in the “pro” category, or in the small minority of people who’ve dabbled with Firewire peripherals in the past.
Apple can’t push Firewire all on its own, and sadly Intel and the rest of the PC industry have done a very good job of killing Firewire with USB.
@krquet – you’re added to the list of horses asses.
@Steve516 – doesn’t work for audio
user should have their FW
I Need FireWire
@The Great Apple Fanboy Massacre
Well said.
And you know what’s funny? All the Windows users who have recent converted to Macs in the past five years — when they were thinking about converting, they were probably influenced to a large degree by a loyal and enthusiastic Mac supporter who is now about to “do the sensible thing and take their business elsewhere.”
@ Gabriel
Just because your family don’t use a technology doesn’t mean that Firewire is not usefull. All my macs (5) are connected to the internet via wireless so lets erase Ethernet from the next generation. FW is used in a lot of places, Audio and Video, a market where Apple has a great market share.
You say that PC industry killed FW I beg to differ, almost all Sony, HP and Dell laptops with a price above 1.000 U$S give you the chance to have a FW port (at least via Express Card slot).
FIREWIRE FIREWIRE FIREWIRE FIREWIRE
IMMEDIATELY………
I STRONGLY AND STRENUOUSLY DEMAND IT BACK ON THE MacBook.
Where’s Mike Nevin and his Spitfires?
@lurker
You know what, I accept my place on your list. I did indeed talk out of my ass, and you I was wrong and you are right to point that out.
Actually, of all the people, the person that helped me understand my folly on this matter the most was The Great Apple Fanboy Massacre with his/her last post.
I can be reasoned.
Don’t like it? Shut up and buy a PC then.
I too have inked my quill and marked the parchment. But I doubt it will do much good.
An eSATA port would make way more sense. Disk drives just keep getting bigger and bigger, but the transport methods are not keeping up for laptops used in the field, or things like iMacs (as someone who has had to wait around for hours and hours transferring 100’s of Gigabytes — if not Terabytes by now — of scientific data this year).
What a tremendous waste of energy. One would think that Apple made this decision callously and without fore forethought. The current generation of Macbooks are about 5 years old. During that time the tech world hasn’t stood still and Apple realizes this. Unfortunately it seems a small percentage of it’s customer base seems determined to stay cemented to the past. USB2 and Gigabit Ethernet has has had a much wider adoption than FIrewire 400 or even Firewire 800. USB 3 which promises 4.8Gb transfer rates by using fiber optics in parallel with copper wire to maintain backward compatibility is just around the corner.
I applaud Apple and Steve Jobs for being forward thinking and not keeping the majority of it’s customer base in the dark ages. Apple is single handedly dragging the rest of the PC industry into the future by careful considerate crafting of it’s products. Eliminating legacy equipment has always been a hallmark of Apple and I suspect it will continue to be so. Apple was the first in the industry to standardize 3.5″ floppies in it’s product line, only to eliminate it decades later, Remember the SCSI interface and what a kludge that was, this is why Firewire was invented people but Firewire is not evolving as fast as other interfaces because for the longest time it was a niche product. By all rights Firewire 1200 should be ubiquitous by now but industry is slow to adopt a niche standards that is expensive to manufacture power b hungry and threatens to remain that way due to lack of adoption by the general market. This is why you eliminate this option from your Consumer products.
Features such as target disk mode while convenient have been rendered fairly useless by upgrades of OSX that have eliminated vestiges of OS9. TDM won’t help you when you have a hard disk crash on your laptop because all you will get is the Apple equivalent of the Apple blue screen of death “the infinite spinning beach ball”. Since OS9 was eliminated acouple of revs back, I have had no need to troubleshoot my Macs using this method. As a matter of fact I haven’t used TDM since my old Titanium G4, and I’ve been through 2, 12″ aluminium G4’s and a couple of Macbook black laptops since then (core duo and core 2 duo). I keep my laptop’s an average of 2.5 years before upgrading in general. I usually sell my old laptops to Used Mac houses and repair shops after buying a new one and transferring my data.
With every iteration Apple has met with howls of protest, and I suspect this will continue, as the insist on dragging all of us kicking and screaming into the future while increasing our productivity and making our lives better in general. I can’t think of one other manufacturer of computer products that has done the same. I say Bravo the Apple and Steve Jobs and please continue.
“
http://esd.element5.com/product.html?productid=300050843&stylefrom=527950&noquickbuy=1
well, not cheap, but fairly compact.”
These conversion cables work only with Windows XP, as they require drivers. Some company even go out of their way to say it doesn’t work with Mac.
is everyone willing to pay $300 extra in redesign and manufacturing costs? No? So you want Firewire, Unibody, AND Graphics on a ‘CONSUMER’ laptop? Sounds like some people want the world for free! Simply, moving forward graphics are far more important for the ‘general’ public who will be buying this computer, Apple made a (oops!) ‘business’ decision, because they are a ‘business’, keyword ‘business’. The numbers dictate the path, and far more benefit from high powered GPUs in the future than firewire on a ‘consumer’ machine, why do you think we even have USB2 at all on a MAC? The numbers!
“… I use my FireWire more than I connect a 2nd video screen. That would have been the port to drop on the entry laptop models.”
This is one of the very few sensible observations made here (or anywhere I’ve read about this issue) about Apple dropping FW from the MB. Too many are absolutist comments by those who are more presumptuous than knowledgeable about what they talking about.
How many typical consumer MB users have a monitor attached to their MB? I’d wager that far more have use FW drives and/or video cameras than have another monitor.
How about this for an absolutist statement (and one that’s probably far more accurate), “Only power/professional users use/need another monitor attached to a laptop.”
What consumer really needs a DisplayPort, or any port for another monitor?
We can talk until we’re blue in the face, but it will all still be everyone’s own opinions.
Apple is a very big company. They very carefully researched their market and shaved off every possible thing they could before the resulting feature set became sufficient enough to satisfy vast majority of their users.
There is one prevailing reason for removing FireWire. MB and MBP are nearly identical in every respect now. If MB had FireWire, why would anyone pay $700 more just for extra two diagonal inches of screen? With nVidia graphics, MB became too good, compared to MBP. There had to be a differentiating factor in order to get some people to buy MBP. It ended up being FW. No amount of petitioning will bring it back, unless there is a steep drop in sales of MB because of FW.
Apple did their research. There won’t be a drop in sales. They’re comfortable losing 24 or 25 sales over this.
Petitions don’t work unless the majority of the buyers respond. The only way to change Apple’s tack is to vote with your wallet by not buying one, then send an email to Steve Jobs and let him know why.
“vote with your wallet”
Like ACORN?….
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Get refurbed MBP for $1350. What’s the big deal. It’s faster, got better graphics, got a Express34, got FW400, got FW800, got DVI, what’s the problem?
Some posts here read like a corporate PR statements.
Whatever the reasons were that Apple had for dropping FW, it does not automatically mean that Apple made the right decision. Corporations because thy are run by people, make mistakes just like people. Remember the iPhone price drop last summer? A lot of Mac users are complaining about FW. Smart companies listen to complaints. There would be far fewer complaints if Apple had not dropped FW completely from the new low-end MacBook.
Considering the number of dual (and even triple and quadruple) interface external drives (not to mention quality video cameras), it is unlikely that USB has a wider adoption rate. Discount low power peripherals like keyboards and mice, and FW and USB are probably on parity.
And what is the deal with people bringing up Gigabit Ethernet? It’s meaningless in this discussion. Ethernet is a protocol for networking PCs, unlike FW and USB which are for connecting peripherals like HDs, cameras, keyboards, mice, etc., respectively. Although with FW, unlike USB (even USB2), one can daisy-chain or “network” FW drives.
USB3, at this time, is vaporware.
There is nothing “dark ages” or legacy about FW, any more than there is about USB. Both technologies are the same age, give or take a few months. FW may be considered a niche product, but unfortunately it is in that niche (creative professionals in a number of industries) that is Apple’s core userbase… the users that kept the company alive during Apple’s “dark ages.”
FW has evolved on par with USB. The number of multi-inteface external drives and video cameras (as mentioned above) also proves this. As for ubiquity, FW is ubiquitous where it is needed. Is USB, or is USB going to become, some sort of “universal connector” that it is on everything, or replaces everything? Someone better tell the people developing DisplayPort, eSata, HDMI and other connectors, that they are wasting their time.
As for applauding Jobs for his forwarding thinking, Jobs was responsible for the original Mac’s grossly underpowered specs. 128k of ram (not user upgradeable), no hard drive, no fan. Although Apple increased some specs, they never added an internal drive, a fan, nor made anything about it user upgradeable.
Yeah… that’s foresight.
I have no idea what OS9 has to do with TDM. TDM is an OS X disk protocol. Prior to OS X and FW, what was used was SDM (SCSI disk mode). Whether or not it is used by a significant number of end users is irrelevant, as it used by Apple and Apple authorized techs for diagnosis and repair.
What this all comes down to it that a significant number of longtime Apple supporters are going to have issues when it comes time for them to upgrade to a new Mac. Apple’s FW decision is not going to help Apple’s customers.
Besides… if everything said regarding FW were true, why didn’t Apple just drop FW all together? What’s the point of holding onto “obsolete, out-dated, legacy technology” on high-end, pro-level Macs? Especially in the markets pro-level Macs serve? I know because that’s where I work. We’re usually the ones on the cutting edge of technology.
What’s forward thinking about that?
@ nobodi
I totally agree with you…
@ everyone tthat think Apple (SJ) can’t do no wrong… just remeber when:
1) Apple keep selling Macs with USB 1.1 and Firewiere when ALL the industry was with USB 2. Back then nobody said anything because FW was on iPods, but Apple suddenly kill FW on iPods pissing all customers without the ‘fast USB 2’.
2) Apple keep selling iMac with DVD-Rom only drives, no CD-RW option. Then SJ said: ‘We missed the boat’
3) Some Mac without the audio in port!
4) The cube!
….
I love Apple and SJ is a great CEO but he is human. This is one example of why Apple has to be more open with their road plans because bussiness/home users/pro users need to know what path to take when they are going for shopping.
As of 3:15 PM MDT today, there are now 10,056 signature. That’s 1500 new signatures in a little more than eight hours.
“That’s 1500 new signatures in a little more than eight hours.”
And in that time, Apple sold about 25,000 new Macs of varying types
Don’t underestimate the cumulative effect over time that 10,000 unhappy “recommenders” can have when they decide to recommend *against* Apple.
I was a little irritated by the lack of Firewire for Target Disk Mode on the new MacBooks at first, too. Then I realized… I have a SATA/IDE to USB connector cable. The hard drive is obscenely easy to access. Therefore, it’s a non-issue to me. Good thing I’m not a video buff, though.
@nobodi
I think some of the other posters have it right when they say the FW being dropped is to make a difference between the MacBook and the MacBook Pro. Apple has always done this.
That doesn’t make it right, but thats the way it is.
As for your info on the original Mac, it was a magnitude better than any IBM clones out at the time as far as software and user interface.
And I had a Mac SE (an upgrade to the original Mac, still the same design) with a 20 meg internal hard drive and 1 meg of ram that I installed with after market Ram Modules. You could have more than 1 application open at a time. ( amazing stuff ) At the time 1 meg of ram seemed like overkill and I could not conceive how I could ever fill up a 20 meg hard drive.
Lost in all the USB v. Firewire crap, ius the real reason I care:
I support over 850 macs. I use target mode on a daily basis and NEED it.
Essentially, my choices are now a really old platform (Plastic white) or really expensive.
I’ve put out a freeze on any new purchases for anyone looking for the middle models.
@Small Numbers
Cutting off their noses to spite their faces.
@ tekorei
Nobody said Jobs could do no wrong, but he learned quickly from his mistakes. I remember the PB 5300, I had one of those. Apple was also one of the last PC companies to go color from monochrome. My first Mac was a 512 K fat Mac back in the day. But at the end of the day over the past decade I’ll bet more people have lost money betting against the changes Apple has made in it’s products than they have won.
@nobodi
Quite the revisionsit aren’t we. The professionals you speak of still have plenty of options, and if they are editing HD video they should not be doing it on a 13.4″ diagonal screen anyway. When comparing the other transit media it seems the main reason people are upset is data transfer speed. USB 2 and Gigabit Ethernet has caught up and in some cases surpassed Firewire. This is a consumer laptop we are talking about and it is a sound business decision.
“USB 2 and Gigabit Ethernet has caught up and in some cases surpassed Firewire”
No, Bob, USB doesn’t in any way, shape or form beat Firewire in the real world.
“USB 2 and Gigabit Ethernet has caught up and in some cases surpassed Firewire”
No, Bob, USB doesn’t in any way, shape or form beat Firewire in the real world.
@bobchr
“if they are editing HD video they should not be doing it on a 13.4″ diagonal screen anyway.”
Says who? You? Who made you God to tell people what works for them and what doesn’t? Why should I not edit HD video on a small screen? If it floats my boat, I will.
“When comparing the other transit media it seems the main reason people are upset is data transfer speed.”
Wrong. People are upset because without ANY warning at all, Apple no longer supports peripherals designed to a standard that it invented and has championed for a decade. A standard that, contrary to rumor, is still better than the alternative USB.
Second, the loss of Target Disk Mode is a far larger loss than any of you care to admit. If you actually <u>used</u> computers for more than sending email jokes and surfing porn, you’d know that.
“This is a consumer laptop we are talking about and it is a sound business decision.”
WTF does that have to do with anything at all? ALL the Macs with the exception of the tower models are aimed at the consumer market. The previous Macbook, the iBook, the Powerbook, the iMac, the G3 iMac, even the friggin’ eMac — all had Firewire, for crying out loud. They are ALL consumer machines and they ALL had Firewire.
What in the hell is wrong with you people? Apple has removed the Firewire port to create an ARTIFICIAL distinction between the MB and the MBP. Does the removal of a port and 2″ more diagonal screen justify a $700 price bump? HELL no. But that’s the choice that Apple wants us to make.
I’m not buying it, and I’m really sick of you apologists justifying the move. It’s one of the worst, if not the worst, business decisions Apple has ever made.
“Quite the revisionsit aren’t we.’
Well… I guess you must be making a self referrential comment. Because I have no idea what you’re talking about. I “revised” nothing.
“The professionals you speak of still have plenty of options, and if they are editing HD video they should not be doing it on a 13.4″ diagonal screen anyway.”
Well that’s a matter of opinion. I’ve been reading post for years by a number of professional users wanting a smaller laptop like the 12″ PowerBook. Personally, that’s a bit small for my tastes (I have a 6 month old 17″ MacBookPro), but to each his/her own.
“When comparing the other transit media it seems the main reason people are upset is data transfer speed. USB 2 and Gigabit Ethernet has caught up and in some cases surpassed Firewire.”
You keep saying this, but unlike others (who have posted links supporting their contrary positions) you have yet to supply any proof of your assertion.
“This is a consumer laptop we are talking about and it is a sound business decision.”
Yes it is, but whether or not dropping FW from it was a sound business decision has yet to be confirmed. That is something that customers will decide, not Apple, and only time will tell.
Signed. Signature #10,503
“People are upset because without ANY warning at all, Apple no longer supports peripherals”
Huh? When did Apple tell anyone about future plans, EVER. Apple has been dropping FireWire slowly for years. Half the Apple laptop models still support FireWire, but in his email, Steve’s made it clear that it’s going away, Apple seldom ever makes a statement that clear on future plans. This is the final warning.
And Apple is only following market trends. New FireWire cameras are are almost non existent, especially those not tape based. New external HDDs usually also support the better, faster eSata standard or the more widely available USB standard. Gigabit ethernet will transfer files system to system faster than FireWire ever did. Booting off a USB key eliminates almost all needs for target Disk Mode.
“A standard that, contrary to rumor, is still better than the alternative USB.”
Sorry, you’re wrong. Only prior to the release of USB3 and only in some ways which are no no longer relevant for the latest crop of cameras which by virtue of doing things differently offload video completely losslessly(with respect to the digital information stored in the camera, not the codec) and 10x faster than streaming it over FireWire ever did. USB is now doing a better job here than FireWire’s loss prone stream and re-capture model ever did. There’s a reason FireWire needed isochronous mode, bad design choices as to where to place the need for real time response. Relying on a Grab It Now Or Lose It Forever protocol for video capture is so 60’s.
@ oh no my shorts and @@bobchr common sense dictates that you would not try to edit 1080p video on a screen whose native resolution can only support 720p at best. Nobody had to make me god for that one. If you’re a so called video pro and have any pride in your offering would you not buy the proper tools to do a professional job?
I expect all of you supporters in this decision will support Apple again when they drop Ethernet, Video Out and Audio Out just because you cang get an USB Adapter but in this case there is no Firewire adapter that offer the SAME funcionality as a native Firewire port (TDM, Speed Transfer, Peripheral Chain, etc).
(Sorry about spell)
# 11828. No FW. No matte. No money. It’s as simple as that.
/signed.
Over 12k signatures now.
Doubt it will change anything at Apple, even if they got hundreds of thousands of signatures.
With all this bruhaha about the absence of FW on consumer grade MB signaling the eminent death of FW, just why is it no one is complaining that the lack of an ethernet port on the MacBook Air is a sure sign that ethernet is dying?
Now, that said, I do think iApple made a mistake in dropping FW from the low-end MB.
I don’t care about arguments about pro this and consumer that. What about those of us who fall between the two extremes? People looking to learn more, do more, or move beyond what we’re doing… without jumping whole hog into an unaffordable “pro” environment. Apple used to be very good at producing a computer that allowed us to do that.
That computer allowed beginners, amateurs, consumers to move beyond what they had been doing (or were capable of) into a realm formerly reserved and occupied by “Pros”… without having to invest insane amounts of money in “Pro” equipment.
It was, as Steve Jobs said, “a computer for the rest of us.”
It was called Macintosh… and in a very short time from its introduction, the very much consumer-oriented (in concept, if not price) Mac, along with PageMaker and the laserprinter, gave us the desktop publishing revolution.
I think Apple has forgotten their roots.
1) why is it no one is complaining that the lack of an ethernet port on the MacBook Air is a sure sign that ethernet is dying?
Because Ethernet shows no signs of dying in the broader market, The Air is a subnotebook so fewer ports were hardly unexpected and Apple provides a $29 Ethernet adapter for the Air.
In contrast FireWire is no longer on any iPod, it’s disappeared from all but handful of non tape based cameras, it’s available on fewer and fewer hard drives each year and is now finally disappearing from Macs.
And another thing. Macs have never been about price. If you wanted a Mac and could afford it, you got a Mac.
Having a Mac was about what you could do with it… not about what it didn’t have and what you couldn’t do with it.
Until now.
Now Apple has decided, for whatever reason, that “consumers” don’t need (or can’t afford) “Pro” technology like FW.
What is to Apple what I use my Mac for, as long as I buy a Mac? It’s none of their business if I want to use a 13″ MB for editing video.
This whole affair reminds me of a piece of software I wanted to buy several years. The developer had the most bizarre licensing scheme I had ever heard of. The developer had three (very slightly different) versions of their software that were geared towards the consumer, small business/educational, and larger businesses.
At the time, the consumer version would have met my business needs just fine. But… the developer’s licensing terms specifically forbid the use of the consumer version for business purposes.
I could have just bought the software and used it, but (for whatever reasons) I couldn’t bring myself to do that. So, I didn’t buy the software and the project I had in mind for it never got developed.
Now I could have bought it and used it without the developer being the wiser, but… really, wtf… what is it any of the developer’s concern how I use their software as long as I buy it.
My background is publishing and I use InDesign, but I really doubt that Adobe cares that some people buy Illustrator or PhotoShop and uses them for creating ads.
So what is to Apple what anyone uses my Mac for? It used to be that a Mac was a Mac, and the same thing you learned on was the same thing you did work on.
What broader market is there for ethernet? Ethernet only has a single market – networking. It’s not a connection interface like USB, FW and eSata.
People keep saying FW is disappearing from cameras, but I’m not seeing that on the cameras I find… except, as already noted, the really low-end, Flip type cameras. iLink (FW) is still on everything I come across. And, on higher-end, consumer hi-def cameras, HDMI is showing up too.
As for hard drives, I still see more dual interface drives than anything else and now, more than ever, triple interfaces with eSata thrown in for good measure.
@Why
You really don’t know anything about audio interface… almost all of them have Firewire. Firewire is better than USB and never will be popular because is pricier than USB. I love Apple Inc. I know that they need to keep 30% of margins to survive but it’s a shame that they use this margin to give 130.000.000 U$S to their executive because of their great job as a gift but they doesn’t want us to work with Firewire in a 1500 U$S laptop. I love Capitalism (sarc)
“You really don’t know anything about audio interface… almost all of them have Firewire”
I really know Audio Interfaces are not part of broader peripheral market so Firewire still being in use for that application doesn’t mean it’s alive anywhere else. And USB3 completely obsoletes FireWire 400.
“What broader market is there for ethernet? Ethernet only has a single market – networking”
Wow that’s such a narrow market – networking, after all who networks their machines these days?
“, as already noted, the really low-end, Flip type cameras. iLink (FW) is still on everything I come across. “
Every hard disk or flash based camera has USB. Mostly only tape based ones still have FireWire, only 12 non tape based cameras still have FireWire. Tape is not the future.
“As for hard drives, I still see more dual interface drives than anything else”
Where are you looking? Most drives are Sata and eSata is just a Sata drive in an enclosure with a different cable, and most pre packaged external drives are USB only. Very few still offer FireWire.
14,243 signatures!
“Most drives are Sata and eSata is just a Sata drive in an enclosure with a different cable, and most pre packaged external drives are USB only. Very few still offer FireWire.”
——————–
Over at OWC, every single one of their external drives has firewire.
http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/firewire/1394/USB/EliteAL/400+USB2/
…..”And USB3 completely obsoletes FireWire 400″…
Yeah, your right, yesterday I wen to Fry’s and I ordered my new 500GB USB3 drive, oh sorry, it was a dream. USB3 doen’t exist yet and it will have the same technology as USB2 except that USB3 will be faster than USB2…