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Oct 15, 08 - 01:38 pm Comment from: Dr Mcr

Factually incorrect, but at least its drawing attention to the FW omission from the Macbooks

Someone yesterday had a question about connecting Firewire video cameras to the new MacBook with USB only ports. Has anyone come up with an adapter that will allow that connection?? I looked through the Apple store and on Belkin's website and found nothing. Do you think Apple will come up with something so that those folks aren't left out in the cold???

Oct 15, 08 - 01:42 pm Comment from: Wealthy Industrialite

MDN, all of the products announced yesterday except for the MacBook Pro got rid of FireWire. The iMac and Mac mini have FireWire - for now. This isn't a good sign. Consumers who want to put DV footage on their new MacBooks are getting the shaft here.

This is a deal breaker for anyone with a decent investment in firewire hard drives. I have several firewire HD enclosures including one i use for timemachine.

sucks

I'm sick of this "Apple can do no wrong" attitude.
Apple DID kill firewire in the macbook. Justifying that by saying that it's ok because the iMac still has firewire might be the stupidest argument I've ever heard.

Those wishing to upgrade their macbooks and keep firewire are now forced to upgrade to macbook pros if they want to keep using their firewire devices.

I'm a long time Apple user and advocate, but this is totally unacceptable behavior from Apple and the MDN writers justifying it should start thinking about critically listening to themselves every now and then.

this is a terrible mistake for new mac books not to be able to connect anymore to DV camcorder.
what is the use of imovie and all the rest. no more video editing.
It is very difficult to understand such a terrible move

Oct 15, 08 - 01:51 pm Comment from: Jubei

For 12 bucks you can use your slower older 400 if you want on the MBP.

Notwithstanding the fact that Firewire is on all other Macs but the new MacBooks, many's the time I have used it to transfer files, attach peripherals, and use Target Mode, which is essential. And I happen to like the plastic case, preference is for white, because the black version's keys are harder to see in a dark room.
Many suspect that removing Firewire on the MacBooks is a marketing ploy to get people to buy the MacBook Pro line.

On the new HD video cameras, Firewire as been superseded by USB2, and flash card adapters fit into the USB slots so new users can get along just fine without Firewire. Except for fast file transfers and Target Mode. Unfortunately, Target Mode is an essential aspect of the Mac experience and is needed for maintenance and trouble shooting. Too bad the marketers are in charge of the cowshed.

Oct 15, 08 - 01:52 pm Comment from: nicemac

If Dell had done this, the "MDN Take" would have been much different.

Oct 15, 08 - 01:53 pm Comment from: Chuck U Farley

Puts me out of the running for a new MacBook. Too bad. This makes no sense whatsoever.
What's next, take it off the iMacs?

Where was the article, 'PC makers kill USB 1.0?

Does Apple know something we don't? Is USB 2.0 getting a bump in speed? This is a mistake Apple, and MDN you can't make a silk purse out of this.

Oct 15, 08 - 02:03 pm Comment from: DanielM

So Apple doesn't include FireWire on all its Macs. But neither does any other computer company.

Oct 15, 08 - 02:03 pm Comment from: HMCIV

Wired Magazine doesn't know how to wire their peripherals to their laptops?

That's not a good sign.

How long a period of time did macbook pros not have, then have firewire 800? 6 months? 12?

Oct 15, 08 - 02:05 pm Comment from: ElderNorm

Lots of heat today. LOL

I am curious as to the firewire issue though. Does anyone here know if there is a converter that will tie into firewire. I know that I use firewire with my DV camcorder to bring video into my iMac G5 and Intel MacBook.

What are my options for the future? Is USB2 fast enough to handle video??? I know that firewire 400 sure beats USB2 when moving files!!!!!

So, any technical people in the know out there???

en

Oct 15, 08 - 02:10 pm Comment from: oh no my shorts

What infuriates me the most is that Firewire is Apple's own standard! Talk about "knifing the baby"...

From wikipedia (look at all the references to digital audio, digital video, HD audio-video. This is the meat of the digital consumer market, Apple. Why are you upselling to the MBP?):

FireWire is Apple Inc.'s name for the IEEE 1394 High Speed Serial Bus. It was initiated by Apple and developed by the IEEE P1394 Working Group, largely driven by contributions from Apple, although major contributions were also made by engineers from Texas Instruments, Sony, Digital Equipment Corporation, IBM, and INMOS/SGS Thomson (now STMicroelectronics).

Apple intended FireWire to be a serial replacement for the parallel SCSI (Small Computer System Interface) bus while also providing connectivity for digital audio and video equipment. Apple's development began in the late 1980s, later presented to the IEEE[2], and was completed in 1995.
.
.
.
The IEEE 1394 interface is a serial bus interface standard for high-speed communications and isochronous real-time data transfer, frequently used in a personal computer (and digital audio and digital video). The interface is also known by the brand names of FireWire (Apple Inc.), i.LINK (Sony), and Lynx (Texas Instruments). The 1394 standard also defines a backplane interface, though this is not as widely used.

FireWire has replaced Parallel SCSI in many applications, due to lower implementation costs and a simplified, more adaptable cabling system. IEEE 1394 has been adopted as the High Definition Audio-Video Network Alliance (HANA) standard connection interface for A/V (audio/visual) component communication and control[1]. FireWire is also available in wireless, fiber optic, and coaxial versions using the isochronous protocols.

Almost all digital camcorders have included this connection since 1995, as have the vast majority of high end professional audio interfaces. Since 2003 many computers intended for home or professional audio/video use have built-in FireWire/i.LINK ports, including all Sony computers, all but two of Apple's computers (the MacBook Air and new MacBook Late 2008), and many of its older iPods. It is also available on many retail motherboards.

FireWire is more stable, Apple fans said. So i bought a back up FireWire LaCie HD just in case of .... soon it will be shit. Never needed it so far because Mac's are stable !

For me, it stopped me cold. I was going to get a new MacBook. But I have FW400 hardware. I need to have that connection. Too bad, I wanted the smaller profile like the old 12 I used to drag around for so long. I do not want to tote a 15 inch around- 13 inch to really to big itself for me.

Oh well.

MDN is full of CRAP. All the computers you mentioned, with the exception of the MBP are older models that should soon be getting refreshed. The trend is clear with the MB update. Only Apple sycophants like MDN could just pretend it isn't happening. Given what happened with the MB, do you actually think the Mac mini is going to retain its firewire port when it gets its next update (if it's not killed off, that it)? The trend is clear; Apple is redefining firewire as a "pro" luxury (and don't point to the iMac as a "consumer" computer; it's more of a "pro-sumer" computer). What Apple is doing with firewire is despicable.

Two days ago every Mac notebook (minus the Air) supported FW. Today half of them (minus the Air) don't. Stupid. And USB2 on a Mac is NOT as fast as FW400. Just look at your CPU-usage when trying to crunch on files on both types. Now maybe those USB ports are really sleeping USB3 ports? Has anyone looked?

Oct 15, 08 - 02:17 pm Comment from: Salomoltres

Firewire is integral for Audio and Video users. This protocol is 'better' than USB because of multiplexing. To handle data bi-directionally between an interface and the computer. Sure, USB 2.0 is 480 mb/sec and FW is 400mb/sec, but thats in one direction.

Point being, that Apple is shutting out a large percentage of mobile media people at the sub 2000.00 price point.

I'm w/ you Chuck U Farley. I was ready to get the MacBook (need the form factor.) I still use my 12" Alum Powerbook. Without firewire, I'm holding off. Not sure what to do here.... Don't want the 15", too big.... I'll probably end up getting the MacBook, but not until my little powerbook kicks the bucket. GRRRRRR

NO FIREWIRE FOR YOU!

Well, then, Apple... I was all prepared to shell out some hard-earned bucks for one of them fancy, new, shiny MacBooks, but since alot of my stuff is Firewire (ext. drives, DV camcorder, etc.)...
NO MONEY FOR YOU!!!

Apple... listen to the people who buy your products.
We DON'T WANT GLOSSY SCREENS!! (Maybe some do, but at least give us the option for Matte)
We DO WANT FIREWIRE!!

I've been an Apple fanatic since 1987... I'm starting to lose faith!!

One more thing: I have NEVER seen a USB2 device, any device, perform as good firewire. My 80gig iPod w/ USB2 is just a retarded combo. C'mon MDN, you can be critical of Apple sometimes. It's clear Apple is killing off firewire.... which I don't understand. They invented it, it's still a mainstay for DV, and unmatched in inline supply power and real-world speed.

Firewire has been removed from Apple's best selling computer.

Yes, it's being killed.

Face it, MDN.

The last two HDs I bought from OWC had FW 400, 800 and USB. Glad!

All these changes must be because of the relationship with ATT. Screw the little guy. Make them pay for only what you give them. What is this place becoming? A crying tit baby wah wah site. Suck it up and move on.

Oct 15, 08 - 02:33 pm Comment from: Brau

One of the few times I've thought the MDN take is full of fanboy rationalist crap. The MacBook is the biggest selling line and omitting FW from these devices is indeed killing it. Add in the stupid glossy screens, the price point, plus no firewire, and it all means I'm heading down to buy an old model if I can still get one. If not, Hackintosh here I come and Apple loses my business. I certainly won't pay an extra $1800 for a BIG ASS 17" MBP just to get FW400, nor will I pay an extra $1000 + SD card/adapter for a 15" MBP. For that price I could buy TWO laptops.

Apple must think their customers are rich and stupid.

The real problem is that people having camcorder in firewire 400 will not buy new mac book. will they pay more to get firewire in buying a mac book pro instead.?
It is far from being garanteed.
Will they change their camcorder to have camcorder with Usb 2.0..i doubt.
this could turn evnetualy turn people away from mac.
Nevertheless it is well clear that firewire 800 with max 20$ adapter will run all your firewire 400 hardware on all new macbook pro.

@ logic
Totally with you.

To all the idiots criticizing MDN,

What part of "To anyone who remains confused about our stance on Apple dumping their own FireWire standard, please read what we've written here" don't you understand?

No site has been more critical of Apple on the FireWire issue than MacDailyNews!

And they' started doing it over 3.5 years ago, not yesterday like the rest of you fools.

Read the links, apologize to MDN, and then STFU.

Oct 15, 08 - 02:42 pm Comment from: Roger Knights

Insanely grating.

@JC, @MDN etc.
Yes Apple seems to be killing Firewire. New product updates have dropped it. "Kills" can imply a continual process, which is what is happening - Apple is killing it.
Perhaps it's for security issues, perhaps cost, who knows. But the decision sucks.

I'd be better with apple removing fw400 if they simply included fw800 on everything.

Oct 15, 08 - 02:49 pm Comment from: MacSmiley

First Apple kills iCards and MDN laughed. Now its slowly suffocating Firewire and MDN spouts denial. I'm starting to take that "Get a Mac" commercial's claim "... and I'm a PC, too," very, very seriously.
:(

It looks like the FW 400 is a very hot and buyant topic.multiply by millions theads via forums over the planet and i doubt there is no concern in cupertino..they should start to realize the devastating impact.
if vista was the huge positive flop who rocket Apple products this firewire400 story could be a serious dent in the road.
Honestly from apple this the "stupid "move.
Maybe they can adress this matter and change mind.
let's see
They are cleaver and have prooved in the past they can reconsider their positions.

This, along with those awful glossy screens, have compelled me to NOT buy a new MacBook or MacBookPro...

I think the previous generation MB's and MBP's will go down as the best ever... These new ones are the beginning of a new error.

:(

No big deal to me. My new Sony HD camcorder has a USB port on it.

Think about it. Firewire came out before USB2 and it's somewhat obsolete now.

In reply to Hot carl
i'm going to rush on the updated mac book pro 17" who will remain the top of the top for a long time in such circumstances
this machine has everything to be happy.
no gloosy screen
optical audio in and out..and fire wire 400 and 800 all over the place.
let's imagine if they do the same disaster with the new mac book pro 17" to come in a few month...?
damned.

Oct 15, 08 - 03:04 pm Comment from: Roger Knights

Perhaps Apple has the design specs and a prototype for a MB with Firewire and a matte screen poised and ready to go into production, in case the market failed to salute when Apple ran this version up the flagpole. It would have been a prudent precaution for the company to backstop itself when taking such a risky step. If it did, maybe a revised version could be rolled out in January.

This is exactly why I disagree with MDN about Apple licensing the Mac OS to third parties. There ought to be a reasonable way for people to get the hardware that they need running the OS that they want even if Apple decides not to incorporate certain hardware features in their products. Personally, I use my MB Pro for location recording using ProTools. ProTools doesn't work reliably using FW 800, so I have to attach my drives and control surface using FW 400. Sure I could buy a FW card, but it is still a drag to not be able to get the hardware that I need, especially because I can easily get that if I were running the Windows version of ProTools. Ditto touchscreens: OK, so Apple doesn't want to make a touch-screen Mac. No one is forcing them to, but why shouldn't some enterprising company who thinks that they could satisfy that niche not be allowed to make such a product? Or Blu-Ray? Blu-Ray licensing might be a "bag of hurt" to Steve, but if some third party wanted to make a product that would run OSX and read/write/play Blu-Ray disks, and is willing to jump through the bag of hurt and get the license from the BDA, why should Apple stand in their way? Now I'm not suggesting that Apple blindly allow any clone maker to install OSX on their machines, but surely there could be some sort of "works with OSX" certification program that would allow manufacturers to create products that run OSX that occupy niches that Apple isn't interested in filling.

Oct 15, 08 - 03:13 pm Comment from: MacintoshSoftwareList.com

Folks, I am a die hard Mac guy with my own website devoted to Mac. BUT, what Apple did to us yesterday is unforgivable. New video port, No firewire, No blu-ray, no $1099 model. Apple screwed up. MDN, you can't handle the truth. You are probably afraid Apple will pull your ad share.

Oct 15, 08 - 03:15 pm Comment from: Ottawa Mark

No matter how you look at it, dropping FireWire is a slap in the face to mobile video enthusiasts (not to mention Mac users who bought Firewire drives in good faith) who can't afford a Mac Book Pro. I was stunned and very disappointed by this decision; MDN's attempt to shrug it off is way off base. Not everyone can afford a top end laptop (or want to slum with the $999 MB). MDN can act really elitist some times.

@bobsyeruncle
I'm with you on that one.

I thought at one point in time, when Apple started down the Intel path, that was the direction they were going... "Lets take on Micro$hit and beat em at their own game." Sell the OS to certified hardware manufacturers and tightly control the standards. Can you imagine buying OS X for $399.99 and just popping it into a $500.00 box.

Maybe Apple knows something we all don't

There is now doubt: The best MacBook right now is the White MacBook. Comes with FireWire, has now a Superdrive (the entry model used to have a Combo drive only) and has a great price of only $999. I will buy one myself to replace my old MacBook. My sister-in-law is going to buy one as well as for her daughter who will start college next year. The new aluminum MacBooks look great but having no FireWire makes them worth less to me than the White MacBook. Too bad, I would have gladly bought the new one.

Apple has killed FireWire. Let there be no mistake.

Dropping FW completely from the biggest selling computer at Apple will drive camera manufacturers to adopt USB and drop FW once and for all. The next gen USB 3.0 would have killed it anyway.

there are a lot of us in schools that wouldnt give an mbp to kids but have loads of FireWire dv cameras. What do week now? Apple, we need a converter and quick.

To let Apple know what you think, send feedback to the link below.

Be nice, be polite, be HONEST.

Apple does listen to it's customers and respond

http://www.apple.com/feedback/macbook.html

The lack of Firewire 400 on the more affordable laptops (espescially as the now- $999 piece is transitioned out) is a HUGE pain-in-the-aspect for budding movie makers (such as schools, cable access and anyone with an existing DV/HDV camcorder). They do NOT update gear that often , and most people upgrade their camcorder every 5-7 years. There's no smart reason to drop the connector for all these camcorders (never mind the drives, etc, that use it). As someone in the video equipment sales and training business, and a hard-core Mac supporter, I can tell you this is a VERY stupid move, especially in the education market. It's like when Sony dropped mic jacks on camcorders, and everyone moved to Canon (or Panasonic) for the "must have" port.

Apple needs to offer a "works for Mac" 1394 (400) via USB adapter that is "camcorder ready", or risk losing lots of users. Not everyone can afford to upgrade ALL their technology at once, and the camcorders that use USB are largely more expensive or offer less image quality (or both), at the more affordable price point that Apple is targeting Macbooks, too. Perhaps this is their strategy to push "legacy users" into the Mini or iMac, and force the more serious video geeks upwards to a Macbook Pro for laptop applications.

Oct 15, 08 - 03:49 pm Comment from: Yours Smugly

Yes, FireWire has been killed on the MacBook.

And that sucks big time.

Time to confess you made a mistake, Steve. Bring the FW400 back to MacBooks!