U.S Treasury: 90% of U.S. workers likely to see more money in take-home pay next month

“The U.S. Treasury and the IRS on Thursday put out new guidance and withholding tables for employers that incorporate changes from the new tax law,” Jeanne Sahadi and Katie Lobosco report for CNN Money. “Under those new tables, the Treasury estimates that 90% of people who get a paycheck are likely to see more in take-home pay, as soon as February. Employers will have until Feb. 15 to incorporate the changes in their payroll systems.”

“The major changes affecting individuals include new tax brackets, (mostly) lower income tax rates, a near-doubling of the standard deduction and the elimination of both personal exemptions as well as many itemized deductions,” Sahadi and Lobosco report. “The new tables are designed not only to best approximate the change in workers’ tax liability under the new law, but to do so in a way that ‘delivers benefits as soon as possible to as many people as possible with as little disruption as possible,’ a senior Treasury official told reporters.”

Sahadi and Lobosco report, “Personal exemptions are a core feature of the current withholding system, but now that they are eliminated, ‘it’s necessary to build a new approach to withholding, which will take some time,’ the senior IRS official said.”

Read more in the full article here.

MacDailyNews Take: Obviously, as a seller of consumer electronics, computer software and online services, more disposable income in people’s pockets is good news for Apple!

SEE ALSO:
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U.S. employment jumps more than expected in November, boosts U.S. stocks – December 8, 2017
U.S. third-quarter GDP revised to three-year high of 3.3% – November 29, 2017
Goldman Sachs sees U.S. unemployment rate hitting lowest level since the late-1960s – November 20, 2017
American consumer confidence soars to highest level since December 2000 – October 31, 2017
U.S. jobless claims plunge to lowest level since 1973 – October 19, 2017
U.S. economy picks up steam; second-quarter GDP up 3.0% reflecting robust consumer spending and strong business investment – August 30, 2017
U.S. consumer confidence shows Americans upbeat on jobs, economy – July 25, 2017

115 Comments

      1. Reminds me of Máiri Anna NicLeóid, who was born in something that could fairly be called a hut in one of the deepest poverty pockets of an ancient monarchy. The hut had no electricity, no gas, no water, and no sewage service. The village barely had basic services. She was “brought up in an environment marked by isolation, privation, and gloom.”

        Máiri and most of the people she knew were members of a isolated ethnic minority group that had faced centuries of discrimination (and downright oppression) from the majority who spoke a completely different language.

        Nearly everybody in the community was a tenant farmer, working for the single absentee landlord who owned all the land for as far as you could see. When Máiri was a girl, she witnessed what could fairly be called her country’s last peasant uprising.

        In short, she was born in a s’hole country.

        At 13, Máiri dropped out of school to help support her parents and 9 siblings. A few years later, she caught a ship bound for America, arriving the day after her 18th birthday. At Ellis Island, she listed her total assets as $50 and her job skills as “domestic.”

        She was just one of tens of thousands of her fellow countrymen who left for America because their national economy had been smashed by World War I and its aftermath. By any objective standard, they were all economic migrants from a s’hole country.

        Máiri arrived in 1930, when Americans were desperate for work, but she and most of the other immigrants managed to compete and survive. She moved from job to job as a maid or nanny, frequently being let go because her employers could no longer afford servants.

        Máiri was a lucky one. After at least four years as a dirt-poor menial, she met a young man (himself the child of immigrants) at a dance and married him in 1936. The couple made a very good living from the company his mother ran. Máiri finally became a US Citizen in 1942. Her fourth child and second son Donald was born in 1946.

        Those who cannot recall their history are doomed to repeat it.

        1. You tell a good story, TxUser. May I ask why you persist in sermonising here at MDN, a parish long abandoned by other moralists in the face of unrelenting vituperation? Is it because, like myself, you feel compelled to breath truth into a man who doesn’t realise he is dying?

        2. I guess it is because I think that truth has value. I am optimistic and religious enough to believe that the Truth and the Life will triumph over the Father of Lies, but realistic enough to see that the Big Lie will triumph unless good men are willing to fight it.

            1. You pretentious and grandiose little clowns should have attended the Golden Globe Awards so you could rub shoulders with all of the self-indulgent and pampered Hollywood princesses, as I’m sure you’d feel right at home.

            2. Yup; many here represent the eptiom of pseudo elitism.
              The left living in their grandios LaLa land ….with quotes or references from the greats…. without having experianced the reality on their own skin ever! Just books… stories… in LALA land while sipping on their hot tea .

              Very Ob. Like: lot of talk and zero walk !

              Extreamly hypocritical and detached. A hundred $ or two a month means nothing.. bringing jobs back, building local infrastructure means nothing….the elements that makes any country great means nothing. While you go on on condoning the illigal.. and using it as a weapon for your dogmatic ideology !
              You choose to talk on behalf of those for whom 200$/month means a LOT, while discounting it in your hypocritical realm. ! You pretend to care for that group while sipping on your Reserva Wine.
              You pseudos … you care about nothing but your Brainwashed Hypocritical Dogmatism…..And a detached unralistic idealism.
              Get real! Live the life before you preach your BS !

              What your elitist world discounts.. meant a lot to so many others.

              Lib/left = wolf in ships skin ( most but not all … Bernie is not one )
              Trust me…all this comes from a life long of experience., having lived in prosperity and desperation while moving all over the World.
              Im an immigrant.. but a legal one !

        3. Being the lying sophist you are, you failed to mention that Máiri was a LEGAL immigrant…

          “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to be libtards.”

            1. Nobody favors illegal immigration. There is no debate about that. Claiming otherwise is a red herring. There are differences about how much to spend on border security and how to spend it, but nobody thinks that illegal immigration is desirable.

              The debate is about who should be legally allowed to enter or remain in the United States. That is what Donald Trump was discussing when he said that we should exclude people from predominantly black countries (even if 38% of those legal immigrants have college degrees).

            2. “Nobody favors illegal immigration…”

              You do…you have advocated as such countless times on this very site, including the unconstitutional farce that is DACA.

            3. What should the punishment be? You are encouraging anarchy and disrespect for all laws by not enforcing those that exist. You offer no real answer and not real solution. You merely expect all US citizens to reward illegal activity because it is politically advantageous.

            4. No sir, lax enforcement allow it to get this far. If the laws were enforced in a timely matter there would be no need for DACA. It seems to me you might only care about statues of limitations only for Norwegian origin tax evaders…

              Meanwhile, there are truths that are self evident… all people are endowed by their creator with inalienable rights, not just US citizens. Living in the US is not an inalienable right, until you now have roots here.

              My suggestion check frequently, report early, or change immigration policy. Right now, no one is doing their jobs. Humanitarian reasons should remain.

            5. advocates Austin’s sanctuary city status…defying ICE detainer requests. “I’d like to do some illegal things…Mayor, could you assist me.” I’ll continue to pay work, pay taxes and I won’t hurt anyone. Ok?”

            6. That would be bad… if it were true. Mayor Adler, on the recommendation of the Austin Police Department, has only said that APD’s limited resources should prioritize protecting the public from violations of state law and city ordinances. The Federal Government has plenty of resources to enforce federal law without diverting city taxes for that purpose.

              Most city prisoners are actually in the custody of the Travis County Sheriff. Both agencies have always been willing to hold prisoners in response to federal warrants or judicial detainers. The Sheriff (not the city) formerly had a policy of releasing prisoners who were subject only to an administrative detainer from ICE unless they were also charged with a serious offense. There was no state or federal-law authority for her to hold the others until a recent act of the Texas Legislature, which she has obeyed. If she had done so, she could have been sued for false imprisonment.

              In addition to the diversion of limited resources if Austin chose to enforce federal law (ICE and the FBI are certainly not going to help enforce state law), APD feels that doing so would make Austin less safe for everyone, regardless of their immigration status. Getting dangerous criminals off the streets requires people willing to serve as complainants and witnesses. There are documented examples of ICE arresting people who were at a courthouse in one of those capacities.

              If Austin residents fear that APD is doing ICE’s work, not just the undocumented but also legal residents from “suspect” ethic backgrounds are unlikely to cooperate. Even if APD checked victim’s passports, the criminals don’t. They victimize everyone equally.

          1. And botvinnik failed to mention that the s’hole comment was made in a discussion of legal immigration policy and directed at persons who had legally entered the United States. The fact that economic migrants like Mary Anne MacLeod Trump escaped horrible poverty to build America is highly relevant to whether we should allow others in. Their race should be entirely irrelevant.

          2. You really don’t think Europeans were the first illegal immigrants to these lands ? You think European settlers were entitled to murder the locals and steal their land, all because some leaders of defunct monarchical systems signed pieces of paper laying claim to these lands and riches ? Few historians and scholars agree with you. While we cannot change the past and all its travesties of justice, we don’t have to be ignorant about it, and pretend otherwise, either. These lands were not the King’s or God’s to give to the “white man”.

            You pretend to be well-read in the areas of history, political economy, and philosophy. But your thinking is self-serving and self-aggrandizing. Your world view conveniently overlooks some very basic facts. You prefer jump straight to the fascist era of Europe.

            We stole these lands and mistreated the natives. Same way the British did to the Irish in centuries past. And many other places around the world over time and still today. Anyone who denies this history is an ignoramus and a hypocrite.

            1. almost always took advantage of the residents “in-place.” This was not new for the US, Britain, Germany, Australia and most of the other shiteholes on this spinning ball. Man has a bit of a history being a beast to others

            2. The “first illegal immigrants?”

              The Europeans were skillful in all trades like building palaces, cities, bridges, chapels, boats, arts, music, etc.

              The indigenous people in America were warring tribes living in dirt huts in the woods and hardly civilized by European or ANY standard.

              Only a PC Libtard would apply today’s standards to a world hundreds of years ago. The same technique used to go after after Bill Cosby, but NOT Bill Clinton.

              There were no borders or immigration policies in 1492 and later in Jamestown and Plymouth Rock. There wasn’t even a country back then and they call that uncharted territory.

              So the Europeans as conquering immigrants, were not encumbered by borders, green cards, welfare, voting registration and did not violate immigration policies that DID NOT EXIST.

              Nice try at rewriting history. But certainly does not apply. Your theory is laughable and ridiculous …

            3. I recommend that everyone read 1491 by Charles C. Mann. It demonstrates just how utterly mistaken most of the popular notions of a “primitive” pre-Columbian America actually are.

              Unlike Bill Cosby and GeoB, I suspect that most groups were even civilized enough to recognize that drugging a free woman in order to have sex with her without her effective consent has always been unacceptable. For most of US history, it was a hanging offense. The idea that outlawing rape is a recent libtard invention would be laughable if it were not so disgusting.

            4. “Unlike Bill Cosby and GeoB, I suspect that most groups were even civilized enough to recognize that drugging a free woman in order to have sex with her without her effective consent has always been unacceptable.”

              You LIE, AGAIN. Gee, what a surprise. Really bad habit, TXuser. You really need to up your reading comprehension skills and STOP extrapolating and conflating posts according to your dim bulb view of world.

              I NEVER SAID what you allege.

              Nuff said …

          3. You keep repeating this point incessantly because everyone knows that if there was any other qualification other than geographical place of birth to be a U.S. citizen, botvinnik would be out on his ass in a shithole penile colony long ago. Please post family photos of your KKK brethren when you get a chance, botvinnik.

            1. • The Ku Klux Klan was founded by democrats.
              • Jefferson Davis was a democrat.
              • Hillary’s mentor, Robert Byrd, democrat, was a klansman.
              • George Corley Wallace, “Segregation today, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever” was a democrat.
              • Lyndon Baines Johnson, democrat, was a klansman.

              White House tape:

              “There more níggers votin’ in Texas than white folks.” – LBJ

              this is the truth and the heritage of the democrat party.

            2. Botfuck is blissfully unaware that the republican party has proudly taken up the position as the most corrupt hypocrites in the swamp. Botty, share with us a republican budget proposal that deceased spending. Any will do. If you can’t point to one, then please stfu about your wacky economic theory. It’s obvious you learned what little you know of economics at Trump University. Which means that you don’t know $h!t.

      2. Well I’m from the “shithole” UK. The shithole that so scares the orange baboon with the threat of demonstrations, that he invented an excuse to cover his snowflake damaged ego, blaming Obama for selling cheaply the embassy building that the US never actually owned and ordered by GW.
        What a wanker.
        Oh, and that DNA kit will tell you that you “the botty” are just a mongrel of Eurasian, African and Native American “shithole origins. How d’ya like them apples!

          1. Stupidly selective argument by botvinnik there. As someone who lives in Britain next to large Asian communities, I can tell you that none of the women in my family ever leave the house fearing that they’ll be raped by a muslim. The Oxford case you linked to was a group of racists who happened to be muslim but I’ve seen plenty of similar cases that involved non-asians. Your argument is similar to me accusing every catholic man in the US of being a child abuser because of one extreme situation such as the one the Washington Post uncovered in the catholic church all those years ago. They even made a movie of that one https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spotlight_(film)

          2. Interesting that you voted for an orange messiah who, self admittedly, is responsible for more pussy grabbing than all the muslims incidents in the UK you can find trolling on right wing propaganda sites. Your screed reeks of fear mongering, not clear thinking.

          1. Just for context, Pat Condell is a British former standup comedian who discovered that he could earn more money on YouTube as a polemicist for radical atheism, and in particular for anti-Islamic propaganda. He is a supporter of the United Kingdom Independence Party, which seeks to impose a white English character on the UK, as opposed to a multi-cultural identity that includes the Scots, Welsh, and Irish (to say nothing of immigrants from the former Empire).

      3. Shithead Dean botvink Clark is from Shithole Oklahoma. Though he refuses to admit it, he left because the right wing administration in that backwater has done such a shitty job creating economic opportunity. Unable to cut it in the nasty excuses for industries in Oklahoma, he lives in a liberal state and whines incessantly about other people who came to make a better life for themselves too.

        Maybe he should move to Kansas, where tax cuts have proven themselves to be nothing but disaster. See how many companies rushed to set up shop in shithole states?

        The amazing thing about extreme right wingers is they argue incessantly that there are too many rules, but every rule must be rigidly enforced. Unless that rule was duly enacted by the opposition party, then the rule is “excessive regulation” and you rally around those who flaunt those rules and campaign that federalism is suddenly bad and only local rule can work efficiently. The same people who move into neighborhood associations with arbitrary rules complain most about a rules based society. They also turn a blind eye when rules are rushed into place with no regard whatsoever to the long term impacts. The reason there is a shrinking middle class in America isn’t because there are too many regulations in number, but because those regulations are antiquated and can never be reformed because both corrupt parties dole out kickbacks loopholes and graft on their campaign donors, which profit from a tilted playing field. Neither party is interested in cutting the red tape. It’s hilarious that botvink thinks his party does.

      4. To Quote Ronald Wilson Reagan POTUS:
        “A man wrote to me and said, ‘You can go to live in France, but you cannot become a Frenchman. You can go to live in Germany or Turkey or Japan, but you cannot become a German, a Turk, or a Japanese,’” Ruhle read, choking up. “But anyone, from any corner of the Earth, can come to live in America and become an American.”

        We are all immigrants- even the @RealDonaldJDrumpf

          1. That’s why he attempted, and failed, to put in place a ban on all visitors from any nation with a primarily muslim population. Trump is too shallow to imagine the millions of reasons why travel and diplomacy are useful to us and our fellow nations. All he sees is the fear mongering on TV — no context, no understanding of the real picture. Drop the “mother of all bombs” in Nigeria, but don’t listen to intelligence services who track the minority extremist groups of any religion or race that are the problem. Since 9/11/2001, look at how many terrorist attacks were perpetrated on US soil by domestic white christian asswipes. Or go back a bit further to Waco or mcveigh in OK City — domestic terrorism killed how many people? Does Trump want to do anything about white christian extremists?

  1. So glad not a Single Dem in the Senate signed off on this, and I think a scant few in the House, if any? So nice to see that be cause of their “tax break for the rich!” rhetoric, they would rather ensure you NEVER get a tax break – ever – saying “well, at least we stop the rich from getting one too.”

    Wake up people. Liberals want to take more and more and more of your money, more control of businesses through climate-gate, cap and trade, you name it, and their power grab will never stop!

    It is never about liberty or die for these folk. Ironic that’s Vermont’s tag line, yet where Mr. Amass power at the Federal Level comes from! Wow…

    1. CAVEAT!

      If you took the standard deduction last year and don’t have any fancy exemptions or credits, the new withholding tables will probably work quite well for you. Your take-home pay will go up and your refund next year will not go down. Not incidentally, that will give a big boost to Republican incumbent legislators in the upcoming primaries.

      However, if you itemized deductions and/or had significant exemptions or credits, the new withholding tables may not work well at all for you. Your immediate take-home will still go up, but your annual tax bill may require an additional payment in April 2019… possibly even with underpayment penalties. Not incidentally, that will be too late to hurt any Republicans in the 2018 general election.

      Be very, very careful!

            1. The only ones dancing are the Trumpanzees like you who think they’re now rich thanks to a recent lobbyist tax bill passed in the dark of night with no public hearings, attempted end runs around the CBO, and thousands of pages of loopholes that the great orange one promised would be simplified. It’s going to be an interesting year as tax experts reveal the many aspects of this bill that are diametrically opposed to the promises Trump gave you.

              Still Trump won’t reveal his tax returns, which should be by law publicly audited for any sitting federal bureaucrat.

            2. Trump’s tax returns would tell a hair-raising story, one worthy of the Brothers Grimm, not suitable for children or for snowflakes. It would be a tale of two cities—the best of times, the worst of times—depending on your social status. It would be a story of betrayal worthy of Dostoyevsky, a rabbit hole to the depths of the psyche best depicted by Lewis Carroll. Even if Robert Mueller quit today, he’d have a lucrative contract writing about ingenious money laundering techniques or about psychodramatic political dioramas. Who said Shakespeare was dead?

        1. My dear botty,

          Hmmm, seems like you stand once more in the path of an unprecedented avalanche of disapproval, do you ever wonder why you seem to attract so many downvotes?

          Well, here’s a quarter so you may buy a clue.

          For starters, you have a habit of resorting, early and often, to insult and name calling, which is rather poor form, and pretty low rent in the overall scheme of civility, nor does it advance your arguments – but only serves to highlight your argumentative nature. That is never a winning strategy.

          Plus you don’t seem to take criticism well, and clearly feel compelled to endlessly retort and try to have the last word on any topic at hand. That grows tiresome as well and is not an endearing quality.

          Also, as I have observed previously, your customary response to a statement you may disagree with but are unable to outright refute is to seize on some tangential point and then respond with the equivalent of “oh yeah? Well what about….?” As you dash down another rabbit hole of your own making.

          Your compulsive reliance upon this particular tic of intellectual origami in which you attempt to refold a comment, which eludes your ability to either accept or refute, into something else that you think you can, is a hallmark of your “ last word” syndrome and an underlying intellectual dishonesty. Allow me to observe, as a non – catholic myself, that you might well benefit from a Jesuit education. It is never too late to start.

          While you deserve credit for occasional flashes of insight, humor and irony that I and others can appreciate, those minimally redeeming (and even less frequently occurring) qualities are far outweighed by your generally unpleasant and compulsively provocative demeanor.

          Additionally, virtually all of your contributions are outwardly political. While you are certainly not the only person to do this, nor am I innocent of contributing some from time to time, but yours are so reliably and relentlessly so, that your rants have become repetitive and tiresome.

          This is not to say that you are unfailing wrong in your observations, – even broken clocks are right twice every 24 hours – or that they uniformly have no value, but the tone in which they are so often expressed, also tends to draw a fair number of critical ratings as well.

          Generally speaking, (given what I suspect is a serious case of Self-Awareness Deficit Disorder) you pretty much come across as an irascible, intolerant and grouchy old man, with waaay too much time on your hands.

          While in many cases like yours, I might suggest rolling a nice fat reefer to help settle your nerves. but, I think, you could benefit more from considering a good hit of psilocybin to mellow you out and set your head straight. (while you have previously mentioned being in your sixties it is painfully evident that you somehow totally missed the spirit of “The ‘60’s” – – well, it is never too late to catch up. it might even be a good idea)

          Yer pal, the good doctor

      1. ” not go down. Not incidentally, that will give a big boost to Republican incumbent legislators in the upcoming primaries.”

        EXACTLY!

        Thank you straight white male conservative Republican for putting your FULL SUPPORT behind President Trump …

        1. 1) Why would a genuine conservative Republican put any support behind someone who keeps attacking the unity of our dear Republic and its constitutional form of government? “Country before party,” as straight white male conservative Republican Senator Jeff Flake put it.

          2) From a purely partizan Republican point of view, why would any rational member of our party support a course of action that seems determined to drive the national party over the same demographic cliff as Governor Pete Wilson in California?

          Almost the first sentence in the first lecture I ever heard on Political Science was “Parties win elections by building coalitions.” There are simply not enough straight white male conservative Republicans like you and me to win any election. This is not 1918. We need substantial support from at least several of the following: non-Anglos, women, moderates, Independents, and persons with nontraditional sexual roles.

          In 2016, Mr. Trump (or his advisers) understood that. They rebranded a real estate tycoon as a populist to draw in middle- to working-class Independents, including women. He convinced them that he would support their interests against the elites by draining the swamp of intrenched special interests.

          At the beginning of 2018, his sole significant legislative accomplishment is a tax bill that rewards the elite and increases the proportion of total federal revenue paid by his 2016 constituency. Insofar as “personnel is policy” his appointments to government jobs have consistently been people from the very elites that his 2016 campaign attacked. Rather than cut regulations, he has ruled by Executive Order to an extent that exceeds any other modern president, and almost all of those orders have favored big business. The middle- and working-class voters are eventually going to catch on and vote against other Republicans.

          As to the other groups, he has done nothing for women. If he had set out deliberately to drive minority-group voters into opposition, he could not have done a better job. Between them, those two categories already constitute a majority of the electorate and it is getting bigger.

          So no, I do not support Donald Trump and I find that entirely consistent with being a straight white male conservative Republican.

          1. FIRST TIPOFF

            All the straight white male conservative Republicans voted for the tax bill, but no support from you?

            SECOND TIPOFF

            As a self described Republican CARING for the FUTURE of your party and country, I have not read ONE SINGLE WORD of advice from you MOVING President Trump and the party forward to MAGA. Quite the contrary leads to …

            THIRD TIPOFF

            Your numerous tedious daily posts denigrating the President, sparked by the liberal media you monitor closely has ramped up. And again, I read NO ADVICE for your party — ONLY denigrating criticism.

            You put out negative posts almost as fast as CNN and The Washington Post. Gee, I thought fiscal conservatives watch more of Fox News. But not you?

            And then breathlessly write follow up posts to yourself, sheesh. I could be wrong, but Flake, Graham and McCain are NOT in your league of destroying the party from within.

            That would be a well known Democrat PLOY to besmirch the Republican Party from WITHIN. It is a decades old, dishonest and despicable technique. And you are quite good at it.

            FINAL TIPOFF

            NOT ONE SINGLE WORD of praise for any speech, any policy proposal, any executive order, any positive affect on black employment highs, low unemployment numbers, rocking stock market, consumer confidence, 3% GDP growth (never happened under eight years of OBAMA), I could go on. Not a single mention of party LOYALTY and SUPPORT.

            Bottom line: YOU LIE. You don’t have a conservative Republican bone in your body and not one word of praise for the president or party you CLAIM to belong to.

            “So no, I do not support Donald Trump and I find that entirely consistent with being a straight white male conservative Republican.”

            So no, no way Jose. Just another garden variety Marxist Democrat MOLE ..

        2. You are the epitome of closed minded partisan hackery goeb. Since your only purpose is to be water boy for Trump, why not find an extreme right wing circle jerk political forum where you can share fact free epithets all day long?

          1. Banned “Citizen X” you NEVER have anything intelligent to say. Pity. No, I take back the pity because morons don’t deserve it.

            30 insulting posts in less than two hours starting in 3… 2… 1… 🖕

    2. Jackson, I hope that you are around in a couple of years when the deficit shit hits the fan. Then you can apologize for your stupidity.

      I am fully in favor of tax reform, but the tax policies that the Republicans pushed through are not what Trump promised and, in fact, mostly benefit the wealthy. It goes without saying that a forced repatriation of hundreds of $B in overseas money is going to provide a temporary bump in the economy. But most of it will go to dividends to the wealthy, not to expansion and job growth.

      These one-time raises and bonuses, such as Wlamart’s announcement, are nothing new. Walmart raised its minimum wage from $8 per hour to $9 and then $10 per hour over a two year period under the Obama Administration, and he did not have to buy off half of Congress. Compare…$8 to $10 is a 25% increase. $10 to $11 is a 10% increase. And I seriously doubt that Walmart is going to give out those employee bonuses every year. In contrast, the business tax cuts are “permanent.” That means that Walmart and other companies will be raking in extra $B each year until our economy collapses and screws the average Joe from both ends.

      And demonizing the Dems is a crock. You do realize that this legislation was largely done in secret with no ability for Dems to participate? Even many Reps were left out, then bought off later. Then the Reps in Congress said this is it, take it or leave it…no compromise. I hope that you enjoy that little victory, because it is gonna cost you in coming years.

      Watch the deficit over the next few years…will it drop from $660B or rise towards $1T? With the planned spending increases and inevitable increases in interest rates, the answer is almost certainly “rise.” Each 1% increase in the interest rate will add many billions to the debt as the U.S. refinances old debt and has to pay a higher rate.

      I am in favor of reasonable and logical tax reform. But the rushed Republican plan with all of its bribes to get votes is not the right answer, and the country will pay for their overzealous and ill-conceived hyper partisanship. I have never been more ashamed of Congress and our President than right now, and that includes Nixon. At least Nixon had loyalty to him friends and supporters, as misguided as the coverup was. Trump only cares about himself and his immediate family. He will trash anyone else in a heartbeat if it serves his purposes. There is not way that I would work for Trump. No way in hell.

      1. “benefit” the rich. Why? They’re the class that pays the most tax anyways. You don’t go to Home Depot to make a return and expect more that you purchased, do you? Is “fair” when the “not-wealthy” get a return, above and beyond what they originally paid in…kind of like party-time for you, you and me?
        Please tell, I don’t understand how it should be so it appears the wealthy aren’t being illogically `preferenced? Remember, the top 1% pay approx 1/2 of all taxes and many in the bottom half pay nothing. Should this imbalance be made more imbalanced to make things more fair?

        Btw, though I’m a fan of tax cuts, w/o spending cuts, it’s a farce…esp since the cuts will evaporate in approx 5 years. The R’s are play a game for their base and the D’s are banging their usual drums about “the evil rich.” Party hats are out/on and it’s a rotten party.
        Your last statement is way off the rails and shows the vigorous hatred of the man may be influencing your willingness/ability to rationally deal with the topic at hand, but a reply per taxes/rich is welcomed.

    3. First, dems are not all liberal. Second, there is no fiscally responsible party in America anymore. Third, America was at its most economically successful when tax rates were extremely progressive under the republican Eisenhower administration. Proof positive that trickle down isn’t the path to national prosperity. Ike, the last great and uncorrupted president from either party, kept the nation in peace, paid off almost all costs of ww2, and had enough money left over for socialist projects like the interstate highway system and international aid like the Marshall Plan. Diplomacy worked to reinvigorate the global economy and strengthen trade. Every successful businessman inthe last 3 generations including pre-candidate Trump embraced globalism and trade. Now that spineless Trump rebranded himself as a nationalist, too chicken $h!t to enter into multinational trade agreements, he has done nothing to prepare a budget or cut spending. His one big press release worthy bill signing was to sign is a disappointing and fundamentally flawed approach to long term prosperity is going to goose the American economy for a few years on debt while the rest of the world builds lasting economies based on optimized worldwide use of resources and labor. Walls, trade and migration restrictions, etc are all counterproductive. They are symbols of paranoia, not strength.

        1. I believe in a balanced budget so much that I am willing to pay enough taxes to balance the budget in combination with rational spending cuts said no Republicon ever!

          If the Dems are “tax and spend” then the Reps are “tax cut and spend,, which is twice as bad.

          Botty the TAM!

            1. How would that reduce debt? First cut loopholes and make structural reductions in spending. Only when you have a balanced budget (by constitutional amendment preferably) can the country ever expect to reduce its income without future acute pain in the form of higher taxation to pay for accrued debt repayment.

            2. I will add to that this observation: The trickle down fans can’t point to a time in American history when their favorite tax cuts actually payed for themselves. Debt has accrued for decades under both corrupt short sighted parties. So even if a miracle occurred and the economy was able to sustain >3% gdp growth for more than a year or two, the fact that now the feds won’t be collecting it’s current income means that in order to make ends meet, the fed will have no choice but to issue more debt and the recurring payments that taxpayers will have to make to pay off the national credit card debt will never decline.

              Is that how you manage your household budget, Republicans?

            3. Well all you missed my key point about timing. FIRST pay down debt, THEN cut tax revenues.

              I am not a democrat. Your false assumption only proves that you’re more interested in partisan bickering than fiscal reform. If and when you ever read the tax bill, maybe you’ll notice how little corresponds to Trumps wild promises. Federal spending has not declined under Trump and he has no plans to do so.

      1. We do. We direct a substantial sum to nonprofits including veterans organizations. Stuff that everyone should pay for with a well managed federal oversight. Instead, charity in the USA is a hole ridden patchwork of uncoordinated organizations, some of which are actually fronts for political lobbying or fun schmoozing for executive spouses. Now a donor can compare the effectiveness of different charities online fairly well. I guess my point is that the USA has actually done a poor job setting a standard of living with a solid bottom floor. No surprise when you have assholes like botty or trump born with a silver spoon, they’re blind to the massive poverty in the USA and the reasons for it. Laziness in his narrow mind is the only factor. It isn’t. The government needs to manage the playing field, which is now again tilted strongly in favor of robber barons. Botty and Nick want Melinda Gates to educate, clothe, and feed the downtrodden so he doesn’t have to help in any way. His attitude says it all.

        Final point: bravo to the states that are finally requiring aid recipients to work off their benefits. As it should be. You see, i am a humanist, not a “libtard” or whatever meaningless insult attempt you assholes sling at anyone who isn’t as self centered as all y’all.

      2. > send it back then

        Oh, they will be sending it back.

        As well as everybody else: anyone doing a happy dance right now simply don’t realize that they’re on borrowed time, because this was a “Borrow and Spend”, with only temporary cuts for individuals.

        And when the chickens do come home to roost, thanks to the quiet change to the Chained CPI for tax brackets (and seven years hiatus for them to compound silently), the 2025 rate reversion will land individuals in higher brackets than they are today.

        For a simplified illustration of how the indexing was deliberately slowed, modeling with a KISS 1% difference between the CPI and Chained CPI: in eight years, the gap in rates of indexing is roughly 10%. Call it 10% for easier math.

        Applying to a generic example – a Married/Joint at $75,900 today whose incomes will match inflation (CPI): when the temporary rates end, 10% ($7,590) of their present value income will be shifted into the higher bracket: the additional tax due just from this seemingly “little” change is: (25%-15%)*$7,590 = +$759/yr.

          1. Agreed.

            And what makes things even more dodgy is that there’s some rumblings that the IRS may be deliberately “lowballing” on the withholding change – – the implications of this are that if this is so, then taxpayers who traditionally got cash back at Tax time may very find that they’re now due to pay.

            And of course, this won’t be known until April 15, 2019 … which is after Congress’s November 2018 Elections. Golly, how convenient! /S

  2. In blue states, you may see more in your check, but your home deductions got wrecked 🙂

    Your republican representatives will still hold their seats, though, we’ve got friends to make sure of that.

    1. What’s really non-sensical is when conservatives try to claim that there’s going to be an increase in tax receipts by the government. I really don’t even know who they’re trying to convince of it. If a company makes more money, that does NOT mean they’re going to automatically pay more in taxes. It means they’ll just find more deductions 🙂

      1. The premise is screwed….most people that have a lot of money recycle their $$ to make more money. Duh…that’s how they became wealthy. Oh yeah, while doing so, they needed people to make/serve their stuff. What’s that? A job for others to live/spend on needs. If you think this cycle isn’t reality, I’m going to guess you haven’t employed anyone, don’t invest/reinvest your $$, b/c you don’t have the $$ to do so.
        Yes, more taxes are paid in above process…payroll, machinery/material purchases, property, service. On top of it, personal business taxes grow because? Smart/savvy biz people put themselves in the position to make money…and more is a goal. More $$ = more taxes. Henry Hazlitt’s book would be a good one for you. Great book.

        1. “More $$ = more taxes… at some point… down the line… eventually… just wait for it… because there’s absolutely NO WAYS for any of these downstream folks to get a tax refunds, meaning they basically paid zero taxes”
          Most people that have a lot of money laugh at the idea that lowering what they owe will increase tax receipts (I should specify, that that US GOVERNMENT gets… taxes in China, while they count, are not a part of the discussion 🙂

          1. I’m not sure what constitutes “a lot of money” in your mind, but from my own experience, utilizing a legal means to avoid taxation, enables/promotes many in my field to spend/re-invest…which in-turn “increase tax receipts.” Same effect occurs with tax cut…there’s more $$ to spend/invest, which equals….
            The notion the rich just “sit on their money” in their fat and happy palaces is just plain naive. They don’t and that’s not how they became fat and happy. They use (reinvest/spend) money gained via income or an infusion…like a tax cut. It’s basic, and I mean basic common business-101 sense.
            Your sentence re: “Downstream folks” is unclear. I assume “downstream” means the “not-wealthy,” as downstream implies receivers of the “trickle-down?” If so, are you expecting that these people should receive more than they paid in, as a bounty created by the wealthy? Getting something for nothing…as a gift from the wealthy, just because? If so, God help us…this mind set is and has always been unimaginable to me and it defines the lack of life-success for many.
            If your answer is “yes,” then I know for sure you haven’t employed anyone. As well, you’re seeing the picture from the position of the expectant “trickle-downer.” Unless a light goes off sometime in your life, I can say with confidence, you’ll be in the same $$ position for the rest of your life. The rich owe you nothing.

            1. “The notion the rich just “sit on their money” in their fat and happy palaces is just plain naive. They don’t and that’s not how they became fat and happy. They use (reinvest/spend) money gained via income or an infusion…like a tax cut. It’s basic, and I mean basic common business-101 sense.”

              You nailed it ALL in one graf for every clueless Democrat out there.

              It still amazes me that their are people out there still spouting DISCREDITED alternative economic liberal theories that FAIL.

              They simply don’t understand and certainly don’t accept Business 101 that has worked for thousands of years …

            2. I’m saying, and this is true, that everyone works to do everything in their power to keep as much of their money as possible. In the current system, this includes tax breaks, this includes tax refunds, this includes stuff like earned income tax CREDIT where folks are getting MORE out of the system than they’re putting in. I didn’t put it in place, I’m not in favor of it, but it’s there, it’s real and folks are using it every year. Anyone who says they can take a tax cut enabled dollar and track it through the system to ensure it yields the same dollar or MORE going to the US gov’t is likely using some voodoo math to make them feel good about… paying more in taxes? OR feel good about paying less knowing that leads to OTHERS paying more? Or… who knows what. Maybe unicorns and fairies… that’s something to feel good about 🙂

              I’m not talking about some pie in the sky, feel-good, “everyone is true and altruistic and does everything they do for the betterment of their fellow man”. That’s the liberal view YOU have. In actuality, conservatives know that you need to do whatever you can to keep as much as you can and every dollar the government takes in is a dollar too many (so “more tax receipts” is never a good thing, apparently you’re in favor of more tax receipts).

            3. Only in your twisted mind does tax avoidance result in anything other than increases in taxes and fees on those who don’t have the means to hire a team of accountants to launder cash flows.

    2. Why are libertarian retards against the idea?

      Because fiscally responsible adults from all points of the political spectrum have been saying what Steve S said above. Wise reforms to reduce spending, then go about tax reductions, would be the prudent way to manage the budget. The extreme right wing NEVER explains how the additional debt from doing this in the opposite order is paid off. They just claim that if you put more money in their pockets then it will eventually find its way to the working class. Then people like botvinnik tell us how they really treat others and you know better.

  3. Yeah, wait’ll the s**t hits the fan. Such ignorant, misleading, short-sighted propaganda and bulls**t. May we all live long enough to spend and enjoy whatever we got left.

    Another misguided MDN thinly-disguised political post.

  4. My great-grandparents arrived at Ellis Island in 1912 with NO guarantees of ANYTHING, did not expect any form of entitlement.

    They left a 17 room house on the banks of a river in Germany with what they had on their backs, and finally a year later built a 1 room sod house on the plains of Nebraska and my great-grandfather became a cowboy who learned his horsemanship skills in the German cavalry.

    They had to make the trip in the bottom decks of a ship with no comforts, basic survival, knew when they arrived that for any reason the immigration officer could send them back! They had to go through document and medical exams, one thing wrong you go back to Germany, with no appeal, no lawyer.

    They understood the reason for these rules, had no unrealistic expectations, wanted to learn the English language and did, made a home for themselves and 6 kids with NO help, in fact never went into the nearest town for the years of World War I for fear of what might happen.

    3 sons out of 4 in WWII, one too young.

    Meet those standards and I am happy for you to come in. Many can, I grew up knowing Hispanic and Black families, the ones I knew could have met the standards, but some white, some hispanic, and some black people I knew couldnt have but they were born in the US as was I. The ones I knew would have been no more tolerant of some of the illegals that are now coming in than I was.

    Depends on the individual, as it always should.

  5. During the election of 2016, all we heard screaming from the right was DEFICIT and DEBT. Funny how those super important threats are not a problem anymore when republicans are in charge.

  6. Why didn´t the Orange Dork import his wifes from Norway? That embarrasing Shithole should send his own children back to those countries from where their mothers came from.

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