MacDailyNews reader “Barry C.” thinks that “Apple is really missing the public relations gravy train.”
Barry writes: If Apple would publicly begin to manufacture in the U.S.A. again, Jobs could start another revolution. One that invests in U.S. high tech manufacturing. It’s never truly realized by consumers how all this great hardware is manufactured 100% in China.
With Apple’s high, yet worthy, profit margins, there is absolutely no reason they could not begin to manufacture here. Even a small trial factory, perhaps the the next iPod nano or just Mac accessories like cables. They would save in many ways that would offset the salary discontinuity between China and the US; time to market, shipping and fuel costs, shipping delays, increased product cycle, and ultimately, even more brand loyalty.
I think a public campaign with a new Apple manufacturing center based in the U.S. is a no-brainer!
So, what do you think, in this economic climate, with 9.5% unemployment, would creating American jobs help Apple to sell more products? Would Americans be more inclined to choose, for example, Macs if they were Made in the USA?
Barry C needs to take an Econ class
Damn straight.
Damn straight to make it here – money is not the only issue at stake.
my gut tells me they know exactly the part of the business they want – the design, and not manufacturing
if there is a contract manufacturer in the US who would care to supply work, i’m sure they can find Apple’s phone number
I hear there is an idle factory somewhere on the east coast, with loads of unused tax credits waiting, but I’m too busy to remember exactly where while I figure out how ISIDAGTMBTTS.
Apple needs to continue with high margins to ensure longevity of the company.
Once energy prices increase as we saw not long ago manufacturing will return to the USA. It will not be long before it will be cheaper to build here, even with the wage difference as a result of transportation costs. America’s manufacturing future likely depends on expensive energy.
Hardware is a commodity. Software is more important.
Apple writes most of their software in the USA, so they should get some credit for that.
In contrast, Bill Gates wants to use underpaid foreign workers to design his software, so he campaigns for more H1B visas and opens software shops in Asia. And his buddy Paul Allen provided the funds to bail John Lee Malvo out of INS custody. Malvo became one of the D.C. sniper duo.
No. American’s seem to suffer from a basic form of stupidity. They want to buy things for the cheapest possible price, but also want high wages for their jobs so they can buy lots of stuff. And they also want high rates of return in the stock market for their retirement fund (which requires companies to be highly profitable).
Unfortunately, to keep prices down, while keeping margins up, since the cost of materials isn’t that flexible, the main point of flexibility is…wages. So, to be able to maximize margin, while having the lowest possible price means using the cheapest labor to make the product. This means manufacturing the product in 2nd and 3rd world countries.
American’s are voting with their feet and their wallets by going in droves to Walmart instead of the local small supplier to save a dollar or two.
I won’t mind paying $3500 for my iPod. Come on everybody!
” It’s never truly realized by consumers how all this great hardware is manufactured 100% in China.”
So it wouldn’t be realized that they paid double to build it here, either. No dice.
I bought a Japanese part the other day. It was made in China.
It’s probably cheaper to keep manufacturing in China and fix all the lemons.
Sucks for the consumer though. All my Apple products except my 2nd Gen iPod tough has had to be replaced: 1G iPod touch, iPhone 3GS, Early 2008 Macbook Pro.
“I think a public campaign with a new Apple manufacturing center based in the U.S. is a no-brainer!”
——–
So because they’re making money, they should open up a plant in the developed world, for charity?
Wow. There’s hell freezing over, and then there’s this. Wow. That is the most insane logic I’ve ever heard.
Look numbnuts, its never going to happen, and even though many computers are built in TW (also a developed country) when the Chinese get smart enough the plant will be there (Shenzhen). And when the Chinese wages go up too much, the plant will move to Vietnam, Indonesia, etc.
More importantly, why would you want to work in a factory that makes Computers. You’re a developed country. Act like it.
Go to school, get a degree, and work in management.
Oh yeah,I forgot, school in the US costs $120,000. Ouch.
“America’s manufacturing future likely depends on expensive energy.”
No doubt. But good luck getting there when the mere prospect of increasing YEARLY electric bills by $50 or $100 spooks all the politicians out of acting on climate. And this even as 99% of scientists warn of very bad effects from warming, and even 94% of economists agree reducing CO2 would save money in the medium to long term.
People don’t want to pay one extra cent today, to have something better tomorrow. Whether it’s a liveable climate or a job, it makes no difference. Why save today when you can spend it on Chinese crap instead, and go broke tomorrow— it’s the American way.
Meanwhile, as we twiddle our thumbs the Chinese are investing madly in renewables. No doubt within 10 years, they will solve the world’s energy problems with CLEAN, CHEAP renewable energy, even as they take all the jobs in that area too…
Larry,
What, you think the TeaBaggers and Birthers who want jobs in a formerly Chinese factory are gonna do a better job?
LOL
That’s rich.
No. Just keep opening Apple Stores. Pay the employees handsomely and provide full health care benefits to all.
Next send American employees to check production in China. Just like high end magazine production in which a press check is done for every whatever number run, except it would be in a manufacturing production scenario. This will keep quality up.
Lets have child labor and horrible working conditions just like China!
Nice dream, but the fuel cost savings are mythical. The problem is that while you could build an assembly plant here, you’d still have to source the vast majority of your components from… China or Taiwan or Korea.
In fact, since workers in the US, use far more fuel to drive to work, than the contract workers in China, who all live on the factory campus, the total carbon footprint of manufacturing would go up!
I do like the idea of some manufacturing coming back, like Mac Pros. Those products that require the most custom configuration would most benefit from local manufacturing.
Mac Pros and Xserves are both manufactured in the US.
Hells yes. It would help their image and bring jobs to the US. They defiantly have enough money to do it.
i think apple is already planning to do this. they said they were spending more money on “tooling” machines. i think they will start making carbon fiber products in the US. first the tablet, then iphone and macbook air. another revolution is coming!
and maybe those ‘extra shipping costs’ are to send the machines to the US.
This is stupid. Apple is an international corporation. Why? Because it’s owners are located all over the world.
Headquarters are in California, but the company has large installations worldwide. Building expensive hardware in the U.S. might increase sales in the U.S., particularly in the protectionist rust belt, but any gains there would be negated by lost sales from higher prices.
Clearly Barry C is a Dell employee trying to help his employer claw its way back to relevance by convincing its nemesis to make boneheaded decisions. Ain’t gonna happen, Barry.
a major factor in them is that the products are made in China.
that said, I would love to see them work to get some parts of the system here in the US. and if the gov’t would dangle some carrots perhaps they would. just like various states dangle them to keep filming in the state and now we have things like Ugly Betty which takes place in New York City, actually filming in New York and not in LA where for a long time it was way cheaper due to tax breaks and such
They definitely should continue making products in the U.S. Yes it will hurt the profit margins at first but if properly advertised and started with small goodies like keyboards, their popularity will boom like when they came out with the Apple 2. They only need to make the American market products in the U.S. They will make jobs and give back to the community. As long as they make production plants outside of California so they are not subject to ridiculous taxes their golden.
I don’t think American’s would be more inclined to buy Apple products, but I do think that it could reinvigorate the American manufacturing segment. The meme would be if Apple can do it, and still maintain profit margins then why can’t other American companies.
It will certainly help if Apple hopes to sell more Macs into the government.
Moreover, by sourcing almost everything in China Apple puts its whole supply chain at risk. What happens if there’s a strike in Chinese docks? What happens to the price when the yuan revalues upwards?
Exchange rates. When the dollar drops enough against the other currencies we will see some manufacturing expand at home. It will be high margin items first. Apple does not need to start the plants themselves. They can wait until there is someone able to competitively bid on products and contract for the production.
The dollar has been artificially supported for way too long. It can not be done forever. The thing to avoid is a sudden drop. Ten percent a year is a good pace. That gives industries time to adjust.
“Moreover, by sourcing almost everything in China Apple puts its whole supply chain at risk. What happens if there’s a strike in Chinese docks? What happens to the price when the yuan revalues upwards?”
LOL, you realize that pretty much all manufactured goods come from Guangdong Province. A strike at docks? Good lord…..
It’s closer to 16% unemployment not 9.5% because they’re only counting people who actually show up to the unemployment office. If you lost your full time job and you’re working part time they consider you employed. Oh, and if you got a 50% salary cut Hey, you’re technically still not unemployed . Anyway yea I think Apple should resume manufacturing products in the U.S.A..
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Just thinking of a strike at the Chinese docks makes me smile… on and on and on. That is one of the funniest things I’ve heard in weeks.
If Apple moves manufacturing back to the US and pays over twice the amount for their products just because of PR, the stockholders will revolt (or maybe sue due to gross mismanagement) because it will lower margins. This is also a stupid decision because Americans don’t purchase out of loyalty (see Wal-Mart comment). Remember Apple is a public company.
The plural of “American” is “Americans.”
Apple should manufacture in whichever country provides the lowest cost at adequate quality. Right now, it seems that China is that country. Manufacturing in the US out if misplaced patriotism and/or PR would be stupid.
When it costs less to manufacture products in the U.S. (including consideration for the added expense of shipping from overseas locations and other expenses), there will be more factories and manufacturing in the U.S.
Apple is now famous for its efficiency. They are not going to start operating factories again, whether they are in the U.S. or overseas. The way it works now, Apple designs the product and contracts a manufacturer to build it. With this system, as Apple continues to gain market share, it can increase its production capacity by contacting with another manufacturer. If Apple had to build a new factory that it owns, staffs, and operates every time it needs more capacity, that would be a humungous nightmare. Conversely, if less production capacity is needed, it is relatively easy to terminate one of those contracts. Closing down a factory would be a humungous nightmare and letting it stand idle until needed again would be inefficient.
However, the idea of more U.S. manufacturing is a worthy cause. What is really needed is for (new) U.S. companies to form that do what the Asian manufacturers do. Create the capacity and capability to manufacture complex electronics at U.S. locations. Then, offer their services to U.S. companies like Apple, HP, Dell, etc. Then Apple can evaluate the TOTAL cost of manufacturing in the U.S. versus the TOTAL cost of continuing with their Asian partners. If it’s even close, Apple would probably choose the U.S. option, not because it’s a “feel good” choice, but because it’s a sound business decision.
And it would not be unreasonable for Apple to invest part of its billions in the creation of such “U.S. manufacturing contractor companies,” if it is reasonably possible for U.S.-based manufacturing to meet or beat the overall cost of manufacturing in Asia. If the numbers don’t work out, then Apple should not make the attempt.
Mac Man-
The unemployment numbers have NOTHING todo with unemployment benefits. BLS takes care of the numbers; states do the benefits.
These are the types of unemployment.
U1: Percentage of labor force unemployed 15 weeks or longer.
U2: Percentage of labor force who lost jobs or completed temporary work.
U3: Official unemployment rate per ILO definition.
U4: U3 + “discouraged workers”, or those who have stopped looking for work because current economic conditions make them believe that no work is available for them.
U5: U4 + other “marginally attached workers”, or “loosely attached workers”, or those who “would like” and are able to work, but have not looked for work recently.
U6: U5 + Part time workers who want to work full time, but cannot due to economic reasons.
Hum! Can hardly believe that poverty fell such a point in USA to consider engaging american employers.. Yet, if renting the less fortunated foreigners living “secretely” on american ground…
This issue is much bigger than Macintosh computers. Overseas manufacturing is a flawed strategy. Who cares if lower production costs mean lower prices when people can’t afford the products because they’re out of work? Ultimately, nobody benefits. It’s a broken system that desperately needs fixing.
Most of this country’s wealth was built on manufacturing, and now we’re giving most of that hard earned wealth away in just a few generations. We can’t support an entire economy just by writing software that can easily be pirated, or making movies or fast food… unless we want to see our standard of living continue to drop as fast as the Chinese standard of living increases… oh, yeah, that’s exactly what we’re already doing.
One world people.
Don’t forget that approx half of what Apple sells is sold outside of the US – I think Americans call that overseas!!! And that proportion is growing. So, are we gonna make iPhones in the UK? AppleTV’s in Brazil? MacMini’s in Japan?
It doesn’t work like that. China is the current Manufacturing Engine Room of the world economy – just as the UK was 150 years ago and the US was 50 years ago. Economies move on and develop. The Chinese workers will eventually get the same tastes as all other 1st world economies – and want to move out of the factories too. Hopefully, by then, we will have solved the energy crisis and all the products will be made by machines!!!
In the meantime, dont ask for the US to go back in time – look forward…
Like Steve jobs always does.
If you look at the issue on a macro level. The American people are better of buying cheaper products di that they can spend the extra cash on other stuff.
The people will not be better of buying a mire expensive product and then have no cash left.
Btw. This will never even be possible after we pass the Cap and Trade bill. No new manufacturing will take place in the us after that.
I have a dream !
Goods, and particularly Apple hardware, should be manufactured by machines. Few people could supervise a huge factory which takes software (as CAD files, OS X etc.) and “raw” materials (processors, memory, aluminum etc.) as an input, and produces beautiful Apple boxes with perfect products inside. And all that could be an ecological process and take advantage of the new laws as “Cap and trade” that so many people criticize without understanding …
That would bring many advantages to Apple : design to production times would be almost 0, product defects would be almost 0%, Apple secrecy would go to new heights (for good reasons, Redmond), improved Carbon footprint, good conditions for workers, US made (PR), lower costs, maybe more flexible designs and others that I do not see.
If you think I am talking about 2100 you should notice that it is more like 1995, when Jobs’ Next did just that : employ fully automatized production chain … it was just too much ahead of its time ! Now Apple has a huge war chest and it’s the right moment to blow away all the Dells, Acers and even HPs of the world, together with the photocopiers in Redmond. Jobs will not stop to 4 redefined industries, manufacturing is next or second next (after publishing maybe).
It is enough to think different and follow through and wonderful things will happen !
Reality surpasses imagination most of the time !
America was built on cheap labor : slaves, immigrants, children & illegal aliens. Apple should buy factories that Dell Computer closed & build products in America. Will this happen? NFW!
Are you kidding…? If Apple manufactured in the USA, the labor unions would ruin it…. just like they did to the auto industry. Buy American is a joke. Go try and buy an “American car”… all Ford and GM products make in Mexico or Canada. You want to buy an American car. Buy a Toyota or Honda.
Oh plus the Depression Era WPA workers & women in factories during WWII provided cheap labor while building America. All so we could shop at Wall Mart & Kmart for cheap crap to fill our cheap McMansions & get fatter in our Lazy Boy recliners.
Put your money where your mouth is & vote with your dollars…buy
USA products ( if you can find them )!
Woo Hoo Go China!
Apple’s job is to make money for their shareholders. If manufacturing in the USA is more cost-effective than farming it out, then they should do so. If it’s not, they shouldn’t.
Among the factors to consider are:
Would leaks to the press be more or less likely from US-based manufacturing employees?
The USA has a positively insane tax system. Is it worth the additional costs to manufacture computers here?
When workers are let go in China, US customers don’t get bent out of shape. If Apple has to have layoffs in some future downturn, is it worth the hassle to be here? Ask GM, Ford, and Chrysler.
As for labor unions, there are quite a few “right to work” states, where Apple could avoid the union shop bullshit that all but killed the US steel and auto industries. Unfortunately, California isn’t one of them, and if the factory is in north carolina, it might as well be in China for the inconvenience.
I agree with Raymond and I must add that American workers need jobs badly.
There’s just something about having products made in the USA makes them special.
The idea should certainly be on the table for discussion at Apple. One of those old pics we saw recently was the Apple board holding a meeting in their new factory in California. Apple could start a new company to do the manufacturing.
Once we start monetizing our debt we will be able to do it. You know once a peso is worth a hundred dollars.
The premise is laughable. Americans do not look past the price tag. cf: WalMart.
I agree building Apple products here in the USA would open up many doors for both Apple and the people of the US. I am sure there are some very good tax incentives to build them here also. Plus the added ability to oversee the manufacturing process.
Might happen
My new MacPro is assembled in the U.S.A. I was very happy to see that.
I agree. If any company could bring back manufacturer it would be Apple.
I like when any company moves manufacturing out of China.
This guy sounds like a union rep or something. Completely out of touch with the real world. If you can’t compete you loose.
Union can’t compete, that is life. A socialized work place will always be subsidized by government. When the tax payees revolt will only be the time union will understand. Example GM
I also don’t think us and them is relevant anymore. This is not China Vs US, this is capitalism in operation.
Uh… wrong!
My new Ford Escape was made in Kansas City.
Try Googling how many Ford plants are in the U.S.
I agree with comments that most americans shop WalMart and thus don’t give a damn. I will not shop WalMart or buy GE. They are the most unAmerican companies in existence today. Both have taken good jobs out of the country and assisted (by providing a market) foreign companies to steal intellectual property and then market the goods here. Won’t be long until GE, Walmart, Boeing move their headquarters to China / India when the tax rates go up to pay for health care and budget deficits.
Also, you have to consider the source of components. Seems that most of the components are only mfg’d in China / Japan / Korea, thus doesn’t make sense to ship components here for assembly and packaging. May as well do it in Asia as well. No real shipping or shortening of lead times. Only additional inventories due to lengthening of supply chain.
Apple product quality is high right now, why ruin this by having overpaid lazy Americans building the products?
There is no place on earth other than China where you could have a quarter million people build computers and devices at the rate and in the quality Apple currently needs and gets. That’s without even looking at the price.
The US don’t have the engineering-talent anymore to build that stuff. They obviously can’t even build desirable mass-market cars anymore.
And only a completely delusional airhead would assume that a sufficiently large number of people would spend significantly more money on a US-manufactured product (that in itself is already priced way above the average market-price of similar products from competitors). By nature, moving the production back into the US would result in a drop in quality, at least in the 1st year or so.
I’m glad AAPL has a real CEO and not some wacko who can barely run a blog, much less a company.
Some people live in la la land. As KenC stated, it would only be an assembly plant. Talk about people whining about Mac costs now. Increasing coats and prices is the last thing Apple should do. Maybe this guy should take a econ class.
While I understand the economics of it, what I object to is relying on a communist country for most of our manufacturing. I want the best manufacturing deals for apple also, but I don’t want to support a communist government that has no regard for human rights. Jeez, that’s worse than the unions.
Yes, I’m talking about China here.
If Apple manufactured products in the US it would never be touched by human hands. That would be the only way they could do it. Huge factory almost no employees.
This is a very sensible and terrific idea. Not only would it provide much needed jobs and a boost to the local economies where the plants are located, but it would give Apple a gigantic PR advantage as being an american company that can slap made in the USA on their products.
Contrary to what people are saying, the 30% margins that apple currently enjoys would not be impacted by a move to higher wage employees here in the US. The cost savings on transportation and contractor costs would offset much of the gains in wage increase to manufacture products. This would also not increase retail prices, and might in fact reduce capital costs.
Also the sales boost from being able to make the above claims would more than make up for any lost revenue, and may in fact increase apple’s share exponentially in the US market. With $30 billion cash on hand, Apple would be foolish NOT to make this type of investment in the US economy.
We can make great quality products at a low price, right here in the USA!
The keys to succeed making products in the USA are:
1- Automation as much as possible.
2- Keep union thugs out (union leaders)!
3- Pay great wages to keep unions out!
4- Location, Location, Location!
WMD
Also, the tax incentives for manufactures in right to work states would allow apple to amortize/write off most of the start up costs for new factories here in the states. this is an excellent idea.
If you want to pay twice as much for your Mac – then the answer could be yes. The minimum wage has pushed manufacturing jobs out of the US .The unions wages are linked to the minimum wage. ALL these union shirkers love that “The big O’ is pushing for total unionization of the workforce. Let’s pray that he becomes the ‘Big 0’ in 2010.
no offense but Apple is in the business of making money, not giving it away
Americans are lazy, and our Unions are even worse.. some big things would have to change for apple to have efficient manufacturing here in the USA.
There are two very real and relentless trends that may bring manufacturing closer to their markets.
Energy prices will continue to rise rappidly, and wages in the developing world will continue to rise with increasing productivity.
Last year, with $140 oil, Chineese steel manufacturers paid more for fuel to ship a ton of steel to the US than US steel companies paid in labour to make a ton of steel.
Add in the other benefits (keeping dollars at home, reduced oil consumption, reduced emission, etc.) and the equation only gets better.
For Apple it may never happen. Their products are complex and as products go, relatively light (considering the high value).
” Would Americans be more inclined to choose, for example, Macs if they were Made in the USA?”
no.
despite all the pro-American BS you hear out of so many people here (especially a certain side of the political spectrum) I have yet to meet any significant number of people who even consider where a product is made before buying it. As many others have pointed out, WalMart is the answer to this question. Once upon a time they had a “made in America” campaign. Except people didn’t buy those products, and they expect cheap plastic crap out of WallyMart…. thus the campaign died.
as an aside, for all those chanting about unions, that isn’t what killed American cars. What killed American cars was building cars nobody wanted. Plenty of other car makers build them here. They aren’t dead.
ron, if you were any dumber you would be able to find the “submit” button.
…take up drinking and kill a few brain cells for us would ya?
Well, unemployment is 10.2% now. When the federal government stops attacking manufacturing in the USA, Apple should. If Apple started making their products with near 100% OS X automated systems, they should do it now!
Not Apple, I am trying to manufacture with only Macs and can’t get the TurboCAD that you sell to create the CAM G codes. I will have to buy the Windows version to get the plug in package. WHY!?
The link to CAM Plug-in for TurboCAD Pro is http://www.turbocad.com/TurboCAD/TurboCADWindows/Plugins/CAMPluginforTurboCADProfessionalv16/tabid/1414/Default.aspx
And what is the software package you are using to manufacture the new all metal bodies of the MacBooks?
The price of the resulting American made products would freak customers. Sad to say, Americans are perfectly happy in general to send their money off to our self-declared technology enemy China. Witness WalMart.
China has had organized, government sponsored efforts to subvert the USA since 1998, the year they were given ‘Most Favored Nation’ status under the Clinton administration. The effort began with the organization of what eventually became the Red Hacker Alliance. They have successfully cracked an infiltrated hundreds of US government computers connected to the Internet with bots that have sent back to China every document, including secret information, on those computers. The only safe government computers have been those NOT linked in any way to the Internet.
Among the things China has stolen: Plans for new military fighter jets. That robbery was discovered two months ago. Essentially, China has PWNed the USA government computer system.
Meanwhile, China has been using it’s profits to build up its own military in preparation for what will be something even more profound than the Technology War they have declared on the USA.
So please, send your money to China.
Ideally Apple could pull all their manufacturing out of Commie China and move it to a USA friendly country that could use the business and can deal with the low wage requirements. The Chinese are industrious, which has been one of the benefits. What country would be a suitable replacement is beyond my knowledge.
You all need to start building me!!!
if Americans are so lazy explain Steve Jobs and all the other entrepreneurs that are so common in America.
@thetruth…
Your Ford Escape had final assembly at the Kansas City Ford plant.
If it is like the one I just got. The engine is from Japan, the transmission from Mexico and many other components from Canada and other countries.
Apple does a small amount of final assembly in the US, to meet certain buy American provisions for government customers.
And, as for the unions not being a big part (not all) of the problem; ask why the US UAW Ford workers voted against the same changes they gave to GM and Chrysler. The Canadian and Mexican workers did agree to the changes.
Americans demand very little from manufacturers that rock-bottom pricing. Cheap is good, and crap is acceptable. Thus it would not benefit Apple much to manufacture in the USA. Long term forces will probably change this, but today it’s better to offshore pollution and labor to other countries (from a CEO perspective).
The only way this works is if there are lots of high tech machines that replace many of the workers. The case design of the new laptops sure pointed to this possibility but it didn’t happen. Maybe the desire to accomplish is just not a top priority.
tt sez something ridiculous: “Americans are lazy, and our Unions are even worse.”
1) Americans are renowned around the planet for their PRODUCTIVITY.
There certainly are a lot of dead lazy people in the USA, as well as a lot of deluded youth who are lost in the ‘I Want To Be A Star’ culture when what we really need is people creating and making things. Entertainment does not qualify. But for productivity, the amount of work done for each dollar paid, the USA cannot be beat. So dump the ‘lazy’ line.
2) As for unions, they are required in some industries, sad to say. This is because the corporations under which these people have worked have been historically exploitative of labor, plain and simple. Just about any of the ‘unions suck’ crowd would have clamored to form and join one under the same circumstances. They lack perspective.
Meanwhile, however, the infiltration of criminals and corruption into unions is legendary and has been going on since the beginning of their history. What a sad comment that workers get screwed from both sides: Their employer and the SCUM who muscle their way into union leadership. No wonder people think of unions as evil when evil people run them.
There are some good, useful and important unions. They will never go away, nor should they. But clearly, there must be regulation of unions such that they are unable to become corrupted and turned into their own exploitative parasite on the neck of the USA.
In the case of the autoworker’s union, they’re demanding exorbitant wages from worthless US automaking corporations. The entire structure should be torn down and sold off into new or alternative companies who can rebuild the US auto industry into something actually sane, efficient and relevant. None of the big three qualify as relevant IMHO. They gave up any care about modernity back in the 1970s. That they have survived this long astounds me. That they continue to sell garbage cars today, which they do, is beyond anyone’s comprehension. Time to start from scratch. Bailouts NOT welcome.
shen, why don’t you refute my comments?
Oh! I know – libs just try to smear anyone they don’t agree with.
I fought union organizers three times and kept them from my company of 700 well paid workers. Now the company is unionized and going under. Think before you spew your rubbish shen.
The cat is out of the bag. Price and quality are paramount, the only way to keep both in check is to manufature in China.
An Optimist said: “And his buddy Paul Allen provided the funds to bail John Lee Malvo out of INS custody. Malvo became one of the D.C. sniper duo.” I’d appreciate something more than a quote from National Inquirer as proof of this statement please or MDN should remove it from this forum. Opinions are one thing – stating something as fact without substantial proof is another. Thanks!
I disagree with the article’s premise. By offsetting labor to places such as China and India, you are freeing up manpower and brainpower that can and will be used to create the newest iPod/iPhone.
Which would/has more jobs and money for the economy, moving the manufacturing jobs here, or creating a product like the iPod/iPhone which has spawned entire business ecosystems(headphones, cases, boomboxes, apps, etc.).
As far as public perception goes. If companies such as Apple did not manufacture in places like China, then China would have a major humanitarian problem with starvation, etc.
Let’s see now. Should Apple make products in USA?
Question: WHO NEEDS A JOB?
Answer: Quite a few people. So, WHY THE HELL NOT?
Litigation has ruined this once good country. The first time an Apple USA factory employee spills coffee on their hand in the cafeteria and sues Apple for negligence… the price of every new iMac just went up $0.10 to cover paying that looser a disability check for the rest of their life. That kind of crazy stuff does not happen in China, and that is why Apple is smart to be manufacturing in China not USA. Every great empire falls, and I think it’s obvious the good ol’ USA is in a nose dive!
Ignorance run rampant on MDN!
I thought Mac users were smarter, innovative, and inventive, and instead what I find is, you’re just sheep!
The negative commentaries on this board are woefully short on substance. It’s all unsubstantiated rhetoric. You’re parroting the very words that has been used as a weapon to keep you in your pens. Don’t you see that?
The oldest among you remember a time when the only imports to the US, were small transistor radios. Before that, we made it all. But, more importantly, there was so much work in this country, we all gravitated towards the kind of work the fed our passions.
Then came Datsun and Sony and we suddenly realized they were smart, innovative, and inventive, and not only were their products cheaper, but they were cool, because they were small, and very handy.
Couple that with the fact that a handful of Americans were reinventing the American Dream. One that excluded eighty-percent of America.
Many of you are clueless where manufacturing is concerned. You have no idea what’s at stake here. Your myopic view of the world is painfully obvious when you start writing.
Some of you, who are switchers, think your IQ went up an order of magnitude just because you bought a Mac, but you still possess the same “hate” that motivated you when you were a PC. You’re the ones who stand out the most; your barbs are delivered with too much force.
Affluent americans expect to be waited on hand and foot. Period. They don’t care where it comes from, or who serves it up. They’re living out their twisted American Dream and you follow, thinking you can compete. Ha! You’re being screwed because you don’t make the rules. Little do you know, unions are your only salvation at this point. They are your only defense against those who continue to feed you <strike>bullshit</strike> cake.
Twenty-percent of this country’s wealthiest citizens are living the dream and doing everything within their power to keep the other eighty-percent of you in your pen of ignorance. Unions be dammed.
The sheep are eating cake, whose recipe consists of a steady diet of Hollywood, sugar-coated cereal, and longer-lasting batteries, while the affluent are getting their nails done, their backs rubbed, lawns mowed, and pillows fluffed by the sheep.
You are content to ooh and ahhh over cake, while they’re molesting your potential.
Don’t believe me? How many of you hate your job? But you keep going, because you’ve been convinced that the American Dream is just around the corner. It’s always just around the corner, If you only had the balls to see for yourselves.
The job you’d love to be doing doesn’t exist because you’re too chicken-shit to make it happen. You’ve been frightened into thinking that the American Dream doesn’t start until you retire. Therein lies your cognitive dissonance; you’re led to believe, I have to endure a life of hell before I can live in heaven. That’s how dad did it, that’s how America does it, and by God that’s how I’ll do it.
I got news for you sheep, the American Dream begins the moment you take charge of your own life, get it?
WOW ! ! !
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This one sure stirred up a ruckus!
Apple already <u>IS</u> moving more of its business into the US. Just, not its manufacturing. “What business?” you ask? Why, The CLOUD, of course. And I don’t just mean the on-line storage or hosting many people think of when you mention The Cloud. My <strike>iTools</strike> <strike>.Mac</strike> MobileMe account has been an example for years. So has the iTunes <strike>Music</strike> Store, soon joined by iTunes U and the App Store. Soon to be joined by the iWork Nation (forgot the name) based in that new Data Center in the blighted South-East.
Apple manufactures some computers in-house. Ought to manufacture more, IMHO, but would then face both increased costs and increased security problems. The first suggests limiting the effort to high-margin items, like the Mac Pro already made here. The second suggests limiting the effort to items that look much like similar items already made elsewhere – like the mini-Server or Apple TV or Time Machine, for example.
Apple does need to broaden its supple base. Just because a dock strike in China is laughable, at best, does not mean that shipping between China and the US might not be blocked. Following Detroit’s example of establishing a presence in Mexico and/or Canada might be well considered. Say, for the iMac line, say, with a start-up date following the China start-up date by a month or two – to help insure security as well as that last month of product in the line.
Just my four bits – as requested.
“With Apple’s high, yet worthy, profit margins, there is absolutely no reason they could not begin to manufacture here.”
“What you’ve just (written) is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever (read). At no point were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this (thread) is now dumber for having (read) it.”
Yes, Yes, Yes,
Apple can use this to their advantage by claiming to be the only computer “Made in America” Besides the marketing I think a lot of people, including myself, would pride themselves that they are keeping tech jobs at home in the U.S. by buying a quality American made product.
G4Dualle:
So you think if Americans are tied up in factories all day being told what to do by the factory bosses, and then being bossed around by unions, where they are forced to pay a portion of their money, (even if they disagree with that union), that they will be more free?
I will say it again. The American Dream is to set your own destiny. Ask the guy who writes a clever app for the iPhone, and sells a million copies at $2 what he thinks. Would he be better off in a factory working under union rules? No.
If manufacturing was done here, many of the people who come up with these ideas might never do so.
Furthermore, if manufacturing was done here and the cost of an iPod goes up say $50, how much would iPod purchases go down? Wold those factory workers be able to buy iPods? If they went down 20% would all the manufacturers bother building all the great accessories? Maybe…maybe not.
If there are lower numbers of iPod/iPhone owners, would there be 100,000 apps? If there aren’t as many cool apps, would that continue to keep the number of buyers down?
Furthermore, if manufacturing leaves Asia, how do we make up for the fact that the Asian market stops being able to afford our products? I don’t mean just iPods, I mean Coke, Pepsi, McDonalds, etc.
@the facts
Hey, don’t blame the litigious in America! The courts, as fucked up as they are, are the last bastion for democracy.
Apple, just like big business thrives in court, it’s their last line of defense against the unionized poor.
A couple of points to add to this discussion:
“Assembly” is not the same as “manufacture.” A lot of products may be assembled in the U.S., but their components come from all over the world.
China already owns most of the American public debt. If for any reason the U.S. pissed off China and they decided not to continue to finance America’s deficits by buying our bonds, we would be screwed very rapidly. Also, the devalued dollar means that foreign markets — including China — are increasingly reluctant to add to their U.S. holdings.
@G4Dualie,
You Rock!
@Quad Core
Wow, you are just full of questions, aren’t you?
The question you should be asking is how will Apple bring manufacturing home WITHOUT raising the price of an iPod by fifty bucks.
Where is the smart, innovative, and inventive thinking in that respect?
Why does everyone’s premise always begin with, well, if you want to pay MORE for Apple products, then sure, bring manufacturing home.
Also, I don’t buy into your straw man regarding the life of the assembly worker. You’re projecting.
One thing we both agree on, is when our dream begins. Where we part, is how.
What, you think an assembly worker can’t realize his dream by submitting beneficial suggestions up through the chain of command, developing innovative techniques and processes that improve productivity, saving time and money?
In the military we had just such a thing, for which I benefited greatly.
Aldebaran sez: “China already owns most of the American public debt.”
No. It is something over 40% but not yet to 50%.
Nonetheless, we owe Red China a hell-of-a-lot of money and we depend on them to buy more debt as more is generated in an effort to overcome the Bush Depression. Therefore, Red China have massive leverage on the USA to continue kissing their red butt. This is a terrible position in which to be, obviously. As I have jokingly said before: We are becoming the United States of China. I don’t think that’s a good thing.
The whole discussion about prices on apple products going up because of American workers needing higher wages is largely irrelevant. The only reason prices would go up is due to higher electricity costs, but this could probably be solved by using some form of alternative energy. We have the technology, right now, to create a factory that is 100% automated. The product would not be touched once by humans from the time the robots unload the components from the trucks until the time they put a pallet of packaged, completed products back onto a truck. The only workers you would need to employ for a factory like this is a few dozen engineers to set it up and keep it running smoothly. You would probably need to buy many components from Asia, but if something happened between the US and China, at least you could buy components from Taiwan, Japan, Malaysia, etc. Things like that big piece of aluminum which forms the outside of basically every apple product could definitely be produced domestically, and I know Intel still produces a few chips in the US as well To be honest, the issue of jobs and workers doesn’t concern me too much, but it makes me very nervous that we are sending an enormous amount of money (and talent, technology, etc) to a country that at best often disagrees with us and at worst is openly hostile toward us.
My 2¢ worth…this is how I would do things if I was
oops…my last sentence should be:
this is how I would do things if I was in charge at apple.
Unions, lobbyists, they’re one and the same, surely we can agree on that? Where they really differ though, I believe plays a significant roll in this debate.
Unions serve the working man, lobbyists serve big business.
Unions are comprised of the elected. Lobbyists are <strike>appointed</strike>anointed.
Unions elect the brightest among them to challenge the status quo. Lobbyists are bought and paid for by your boss, AKA the board.
Unions feed on scabs, lobbyists feed on unions.
Unions have the ear of the board. Lobbyists have the ear of the lawmakers.
Unions organize to draw a line in the sand. Lobbyists are buying up beachfront property.
Unions are massive.
Lobbyists are former business people who walk the talk and now make more money collectively, than all the union dues combined.
Unions can’t win, all they can do is staunch the bleeding. Lobbyists bring a knife to a fistfight.
@jjlange
Also, there is still a significant group of people in this country who value products that are “hand-made”. Why is that?
On the other hand, there are those who are willing to pay a premium for paintings made by elephants and dogs! So WTF?
While it would probably be rather difficult, it is definitely worth doing. The current problems here are largely caused by the fact that we import everything and have no ideas anymore – or money, or viewpoints for that matter.
Placing manufacturing here would regain our control over this aspect of our own economy – regardless of the cost. The cost argument is specious anyway, because in the long run it costs us everything to manufacture elsewhere.
He’s right it is a no brainer, and only someone with no brain would think that is gonna happen. SJ is blatently a fighter so committing HariKari isn’t likely to be high up his to do list at the moment.
@Quad
I will say it again. The American Dream is to set your own destiny. Ask the guy who writes a clever app for the iPhone, and sells a million copies at $2 what he thinks. Would he be better off in a factory working under union rules? No.
Will you listen to yourself? Why would I want to drag someone kicking and screaming into a life of factory work when he’d rather pursue a life of his own? You make it sound as though, if America brought manufacturing back to America, we’d all be consigned to a life of factory work? You see the glass half-empty don’t you?
Just to kick-start the rebirth of manufacturing in the US, I say we put this country’s prison system to work. There’s your labor force! It grows by leaps and bounds each day, feeding off our own kind.
They make license plates, already. Let ’em rebuild our highway system! They still do in the South.
The problem I see here on these boards (a microcosm) is, we can’t decide what’s best for the country. Cook or get off the stove is what I say.
Barry C began the debate in this forum, but its not over yet.
We all can agree, manufacturing gave birth to this nation and made us what we are. But somewhere along the way there was a train wreck but no one wants to leave the train. We’re all waiting for someone else to fix it.
We have a moral imperative in front us we can no longer ignore. It’s high time we all got together and put this train back on track, don’t you think?
This is not about, everyman for himself anymore. It’s about every man for everyman.
So rather than criticize, cause the talking’s over, it’s time for action.
Furthermore, if manufacturing leaves Asia, how do we make up for the fact that the Asian market stops being able to afford our products? I don’t mean just iPods, I mean Coke, Pepsi, McDonalds, etc.
I say, let em eat cake!
Job One, is take care of our own. I wouldn’t ask a non-swimmer to jump in to save a drowning man, no more than I would expect America to feed the world’s poor while forsaking its own.
Peace.
He’s right it is a no brainer, and only someone with no brain would think that is gonna happen. SJ is blatently a fighter so committing HariKari isn’t likely to be high up his to do list at the moment.
See? This is exactly what I’m talking about. There is absolutely no intrinsic value is these words whatsoever!
Declarations with zero substance, contributes nothing to advance the topic.
Spyinthesky, you’re a sheep. STFU! and grow a brain of your own.
Yes! We dragged this topic along to Page 3, something that doesn’t happen all that frequently and unfortunately eighty-percent of it was boosted by the negative comments.
Nonetheless, I believe, as with most things, the negative get left behind when words fail them when their brain disengages, and we no longer believe the fear is greater than our own salvation.
I have iCal’d this topic, set for a period five-years from now and ask: Has there been a rebirth in manufacturing in this country?
@the facts
Litigation has ruined this once good country. The first time an Apple USA factory employee spills coffee on their hand in the cafeteria and sues Apple for negligence… the price of every new iMac just went up $0.10 to cover paying that looser a disability check for the rest of their life. That kind of crazy stuff does not happen in China, and that is why Apple is smart to be manufacturing in China not USA.
No? The whiners just get thrown from balconies and Apple is an enabler. Think about it. Don’t you think that Apple saw that unfortunate incident as a smear on their brand?
Every great empire falls, and I think it’s obvious the good ol’ USA is in a nose dive!
You underestimate the spirit of the American people, which transcends anything as puny as an empire. We have the power to reinvent ourselves.
Why does Microsoft have 95% of the total computer software market…because they sell it on CHEAPER commodity boxes.
Look at the Microsoft ads…they are all about cheaper to buy.
BTW, it’s not just Americans, as people of every country buy the at the best prices they can get.
It’s just human nature. Instead of fighting human nature, to be successful, you must take it into account.
@spyinthesky
Oh, and its Harakiri or Seppuku, not Harry Kerry, as you so eloquently put it.
I’m just sayin’
@Rainer
And only a completely delusional airhead would assume that a sufficiently large number of people would spend significantly more money on a US-manufactured product (that in itself is already priced way above the average market-price of similar products from competitors).<strike> By nature, moving the production back into the US would result in a drop in quality, at least in the 1st year or so.</strike>
I’m glad AAPL has a real CEO and not some wacko who can barely run a blog, much less a company.</i>
Good god, this is like shooting fish in a barrel.
Talk about whack jobs!
You just called Steve Jobs an airhead and that you were happy he’s running Apple.
I feel like a one-legged chinaman in an ass-kicking contest…
Let me write the next few years of news stories for you:
Year 1: Apple begins manufacturing in the US, yeah America.
Year 2: Unions protest Apple because they use non union labor. Apple stores accross the country are mysteriously vandalized.
Year 3: The “Reverend Jesse Jackson” is calling on all members of the African American community to boycott Apple products. “Apple hates black people because only 5% of their workforce is black”
Year 4: Apple receives 15B in government bail out money. US Treasury now owns 55% of Apple
Create a flat tax for personal income at 10%, a corporate flat tax at 10%, reform entitlements, and create a balanced budget amendment and watch the U.S economy become the envy of the world again.
balanced wrote, “Mac Pros and Xserves are both manufactured in the US.”
No wonder my original Mac Pro (MacPro1,1) has never had a hardware problem. I just upgraded the ATI Radeon X1900 XT with the ATI Radeon HD 4870 video card. Works like a charm and has given my Mac Pro a new lease on life.
@mike, whose brain imploded when he read the following statement…
“I think a public campaign with a new Apple manufacturing center based in the U.S. is a no-brainer!”
——–
So because they’re making money, they should open up a plant in the developed world, for charity?
Charity? Did you pull that out of your ass? He’s not suggesting charity begins at home, he’s saying that Apple should politicize manufacturing in this country to get a debate going on a course of action, rather than sitting on our hands, or throwing stones.
Look numbnuts, its never going to happen, and even though many computers are built in TW (also a developed country) when the Chinese get smart enough the plant will be there (Shenzhen). And when the Chinese wages go up too much, the plant will move to Vietnam, Indonesia, etc.
Yeah? Whose gonna move it there, the Chinese? And what happens when Vietnam and Indonesian wages grow to big? Are the Chinese going to start throwing (invasion) them off the balcony as well? At whose behest?
More importantly, why would you want to work in a factory that makes Computers. You’re a developed country. Act like it.
The author said nothing about wanting to work in a factory, so I presume what you’re really saying is YOU’RE too good to do manual labor, hence, Americans are above the really hard work, and not the endless, mindless chatter of day-traders and analysts who are living their American Dream wearing a white shirt to work.
This issue is bigger than the manufacture of computers, it’s about the direction of a nation, who has lost sight of what made them great to begin with.
Go to school, get a degree, and work in management.
That American Dream meme is no longer sustainable. We all can’t be management, some of us actually like working with our hands and our minds.
Oh yeah,I forgot, school in the US costs $120,000. Ouch.
Finally, there is Mike’s cognitive dissonance at work. You’re speaking from first-hand experience, aren’t you Mike? You’ve given up hope of getting an education, haven’t you? Oh well, I guess you’ll have to be content to stand online for welfare.
My advice to you would be to get a good pair of shoes, preferably those manufactured by these Americans.
@ed
You work for the Inquirer or Faux News, doncha?
@anaknipedro
You rock!
@hardmanb
BTW, it’s not just Americans, as people of every country buy the at the best prices they can get.
True, it’s called haggling elsewhere in the world. However all the Americans I know don’t particularly care for haggling, or CHEAP, as you put it.
Cheap no longer means the lowest price. It has come to represent inferior, in my mind anyway.
I have no doubt whatsoever, that if Apple were to begin licensing OS X to its competition, Apple’s OS market share would explode. But at what price?
Apple wants to change the world, Microsoft want’s to own it. Apple, almost overnight could change 95-percent of the world into OS X users.
Dell, HP, Lenovo would dump Microsoft in a NY minute if they thought they could ride Apple’s gravy train.
Microsoft could never recover because Apple would destroy the PC brand once and for all. An operating system does not a Mac make, however I’ve no doubt that Apple’s RDF marketing machine would have all PC buyers referring to their machines as Macintoshes and Microsoft would have to reinvent the PC.
Apple doesn’t manufacture anything, anywhere. The products are made by contract electronics manufacturing companies in China and elsewhere. If some entrepreneur in the US wanted to start a company and bid, I’m sure Apple would entertain their interest. The Chinese companies who manufacture are very focused and very competitive. It would be tough. An American contract electronics manufacturer would have to be low wage, low benefit employer. Who could benefit from that?
As far as time to market goes, there will be no improvement. You can order an iPod, with engraving and have it delivered in 49 hours. I just did and I’m blown away by the process. The order went through the Apple Store, to the factory, onto a FedEx jumbo jet freighter, to me, in the middle of the US. The competition will not be beaten by this factor. No Apple product is delivered by ship. It’s a waste to tie up that much inventory value for so long to save a few dollars (more likely cents) on shipping.
So how can this work? If there was a demand for contract electronics manufacturing in the US, it would have already come forth. It would probably be illegal for Apple to engage in a welfare project at the expense of profitability. I say that with great pain, because Americans need jobs.
Speaking of licensing OS X, imagine for a moment that Apple wanted to dominate the burgeoning hand-held market and seal their fate for all time, but doing it one phone at a time is unsustainable, so they would take a page from Microsoft’s handbook, and Boom Goes the Dynamite!!!
License the iPhone’s OS to every handset maker on the planet and marginalize winmobile, symbian, android, and other wannabes overnight.
They would no longer have to make phones because almost instantly, the OS would turn every phone an iPhone with access to a hundred-thousand apps!
Android? Phffft! Gone before it began, just like Apple in the Eighties, when Microsoft laid out its strategy to kill Apple.
Not bloodbath, but Blood Flood™!
@lurker, who said
the Chinese companies who manufacture are very focused and very competitive.
So what’s to stop them from manufacturing trojans right into the very products they make, whereby one day they flip a switch and p0wn every computer on the planet?
Their government is subsidizing spying on Americans, so what’s to stop them from developing a Sleeper Chip™ that could be invoked at will?
No Apple product is delivered by ship. It’s a waste to tie up that much inventory value for so long to save a few dollars (more likely cents) on shipping.
Not to nit, but that is exactly how Apple products arrive here on the shores of America; by way of cargo ship. However, I know what you mean.
Everyone laughed at FedEx when they dared to compete against the USPO. Enterprise propelled them right up through the NASDAQ and now the common man can afford Next Day Air.
What I want to know is why hasn’t Apple been added to the DOW?
They’ve proven to be as astute IBM, HP, Verizon, Intel, ATT, GE, and quickly closing in on Microsoft and Exxon, who are all in the DOW!
Why not Apple?
I’ll tell you why, it’s because their CEO doesn’t wear a suit and tie and he walks around campus barefooted!
Breaking down memes is hard work.
But getting back to your point, delivery is everything in business. If you can’t get your product into people’s hands, what good is it?
What would you suggest, that Apple develop an electric train powered by Macintosh to distribute its products?
@G4Dualie – I share your concern. Hell, we’d be in a bind if they decided to stop selling us underwear, much less iPods. Concentrated manufacturing capability is concentrated power.
There are textile factories in India that use a particular red colored dye. That dye used to be made in India, but is now exclusively produced in China. Just before the Beijing Olympics, when China was trying to clean up its air pollution situation, the Chinese government ordered the dye plants closed until after the Olympics. The textile manufacturers in India went out of business.
Wonder what may be in store for us.
@lurker
Concentrated manufacturing capability is concentrated power.
Guess who empowered the Chinese? Not our government, that’s for sure.
If you listen, you can hear the giant sucking sound that is driving the power of the dollar into the ground. My own state capital is now for sale! Governor Brewer will sell to the <strike>highest</strike>, nay, the only bidder; the chinese.
We have them right where they want us! But what’re you gonna do? The communists are beating us at our own capitalistic game; the american public sends their hard-earned dollars to Washington, wherein they turn right around and give it to big business, who in turn gives it to the Chinese.
Wow. I mean, wow. What a scam. I think every company who is doing business with the communists should be forced to declare their love for the Maoists.
When does the boycott start?
When the real Twitter revolution begins, that’s when. You’ve heard about the power of a butterfly’s wings, haven’t you? Well, a revolution will begin with a single event, so keep your eyes open for the lamp.
@lurker
Concentrated manufacturing capability is concentrated power.
You’re right. We couldn’t have one a world war if we hadn’t converted our industrial machine into a war machine. Men were off fighting hand-to-hand, while our womenfolk were baking tanks and torpedoes.
Before someone jumps down my throat for a grammar faux pa, let me correct my sentence.
We couldn’t have <strike>one</strike> WON a world war…
@ron
I fought union organizers three times and kept them from my company of 700 well paid workers. Now the company is unionized and going under.
I suppose that makes you a failure, does it?
Which is it, ron? You failed, or quit your job, or are lying?
We’ll never know, unless you care to disclose the name of the company, so that we might investigate the veracity of your statements. I don’t believe for a minute you “owned” the company, because all these years you’ve always come across as a working stiff.
I mean come on, you mean to tell us you owned a company of seven-hundred, well-paid employees or are you leaving us believe that?
Because you could have been a mouthpiece for the company you worked for, which means you were no friend of these well-paid employees.
If you did own the company and you sold out, what the heck are you doing on these boards? I should think this mundane banter would be beneath you.
Tell us ron, inquiring minds want to know.
There are tens of thousands of illegal Chinese Aliens in the USA right now.
I’m sure Apple could round them up and make MacBook Pros in the USA that would have the same quality and labor costs as those made in China with non illegal Chinese workers.
There is no need to go to Asia for reliable, cheap labor when cheap, reliable laborers are sneaking across the US border every day.
@ BAMBP
There is no need to go to Asia for reliable, cheap labor when cheap, reliable laborers are sneaking across the US border every day.
You’re right, we have the H-1B Visa which makes it all legal to bring foreign labor into this country to displace the American worker.
This is not a simple question.
First, Apple could manufacture for ROW in China and for the US in the US. It might be a bit more expensive here but there may be some benefits in advertising as made in the USA. They could market that fact and perhaps get some tax breaks. Shipping costs (small) are reduced and management is easier.
Second, Apple products are high value items. I have no access to the real data, but I would guess that there are not many hours of labor in China for an iPhone or a MBP. So yes, the price would go up, but not that much. It is not like making t-shirts or something where labor is the major cost of the item. It may be that manufacturing here would not be dramatically more expensive.
Let’s just guess that the actual price of an iPhone 3GS 32GB is about $650 and maybe there is an hour of labor in it. In China that costs $2 or $3 and here it is $15 to $20. So the cost as a fraction of sales price goes up about 2% in return for possible marketing and finance benefits. Maybe it ultimately doesn’t make sense but it is not an outlandish idea.
Off topic, my comment on labor unions is that they did not kill the auto industry. I grew up in Detroit and most of my relatives worked at one car company or another. I think it was management that killed the car companies. You’ll notice that the one company that is still surviving here, Ford, is a family company to some extent. Toyota still has a grandson of the founder at their head. By contrast GM was run by the accountants. They didn’t care about products. They cared about managing money. By the way, all the Japanese and German auto workers are unionized.
They say that companies go through four stages. First the entrepreneurs and engineers get things going. Then the business folk smooth out the operations. Then the accountants take over and stifle all innovation and investment. Then in the death throws the lawyers pick over what is left.
John Konopka sez: “They say that companies go through four stages. First the entrepreneurs and engineers get things going. Then the business folk smooth out the operations. Then the accountants take over and stifle all innovation and investment. Then in the death throws the lawyers pick over what is left.”
Steve Jobs recently discussed this subject in Fortune magazine I believe.
I am sure there are variations, depending upon the culture of each company. But my experience is that your steps 1 and 2 are correct. But more typically the 3rd step is the rise of marketing executives into management positions, where they never belong. This turns management into a political entity, which is a form of decay in any company. The marketing/political personality/mentality is directly opposed to productivity, and therefore leads to the deliberate stifling of innovation or any entrepreneurial approach to business. Putting it another way, marketing/political personalities in power deliberately sabotage what is the life blood of any company.
Once a company reaches enough decline and departure from innovation they reach a crossroads where they will either hit the skids and fall into the hands of the lawyers and number crunchers, OR they will rejuvenate the entrepreneurial spirit.
It is interesting to watch this cycling within the history of a company. Circa 1995, 1996 Apple had fallen into rot because of marketing executives running the company. In a way you have to blame Jobs for this blunder because he hired Sculley. Thus, with time, Apple screwed themselves with the infamous $1 BILLION in warehoused Performa Macs that no one wanted. Insane events such as this are typical of poor management by marketing personalities. The cycle began again when Steve Jobs, the entrepreneur, was brought back into the company and the marketing executives returned to what they know and do best, which is NOT management.
Microsoft lost their entrepreneur when Bill Gates retired. Ballmer is the inevitable marketing executive who became CEO. He has no comprehension of the technology of his company, and yet he is in charge. As a result we get to watch him drive Microsoft into the ground with clueless and profitless endeavors like Zune, The Microsoft Store, the Microsoft phone efforts, the Xbox hardware fiascos, etc. Whether Microsoft will recover or crash and burn is the suspenseful question.
Sony has entered the marketing as management phase and the results are very similar. The big flag went up when they perpetrated their root kit technology into audio CDs. Only marketing executives could so effectively destroy customer confidence through the use of supreme disrespect. The triumvirate of draconian DRM in Blu-Ray, a Sony technology, is another extension of the same disrespectful attitude born of marketing as management. Who knows where they’re going in the future?
Ed hit the nail on the head. The US government, democrats, and unions have destroyed the business climate in the US. Over 10% unemployment and the liberals in a spending free for all. We are screwed. Apple is smart not manufacture a thing in the US. Not until a major rework is done. The destruction of the US way of life from within has been a long term goals of the communists. This website shows a disturbing parallel to what is actually going on.
http://www.rense.com/general32/americ.htm
G4Dual – don’t you have anything better to do???????
Ron,
The exact same thing happened at my company. The unions brought it to the brink of bankruptcy and the owners sold the company for pennies on the dollar and the new owners were able to kick the unions out because of the change of ownership. The company is now doing very well and is a non union specialty product company. The reason you wouldn’t post the names of these companies G4Goul is because next week the unions would probably be right back at the back door trying to re-unionize the companies. Who the hell would want that besides you commies. Until the unions and liberals are crushed in the US it won’t be a place to manufacture anything.
@Christoff
Who the hell would want that besides you commies. Until the unions and liberals are crushed in the US it won’t be a place to manufacture anything.
I’m a commie? And you’re suggesting crushing americans in the US in order to bring in manufacturing?
Nice try jackoff, but I don’t subscribe to your reasoning, that if Ron or you were to disclose the company you “worked” for it would invite the unions back to your companies. Your just giving ron an out because he lies or has misrepresented himself to advance your agenda to smear unions and liberals.
So STFU!
I belonged to a musicians union for twenty years on and off and never once did they leave me with the impression that they were screwing anyone. Well, actually you couldn’t work unless you were union, so it paid to keep up with your dues.
You don’t work the stages in california unless you belong to a local.
But let’s be clear, I don’t give a rats ass what you have to say about unions. They’ve obviously left a bad taste in your mouth so let’s be glad you don’t speak for anyone but christoff, k?
@Proud American
Hey you must be in the armed services, right? Or retired from the service, right? Because in my book until you’ve sacrificed, or put your life on the line to defend the constitution, you don’t even come close to measuring up.
And if you believe Ed has nailed your future here in america, so sad to be you.
The destruction of the US way of life from within has been a long term goals of the communists. This website shows a disturbing parallel to what is actually going on.
And yet you’re still buying products made in communist china! That’s rich. Hypocrite.
And let me remind you two jagoffs, it was the CONSERVATIVES who went of a massive spending spree to pay for a war that was totally unnecessary and it cost the lives of how many outstanding Americans?
IYAOYAS!
@derekcurrie
I agree. I believe Jobs’ parting words will be, “promise me, you’ll never let a salesman take the helm of this company again, ever!”
Oh, and Christoff and Proud American, I dare you to register your respective names on this board so that we can continue waxing philosophical about Apple matters.
This is Mac Land after all, and as far as I can tell you’ve haven’t said one word about the company who has made all this possible.
So far the only thing you two dickwads have talked about are crushing liberals and unions. Why bring your communist agenda here in the first place.. oh wait… because you’re haters! that’s why.
christoff and proud american are haters!
China is not going to have slave labor forever. As their economy matures they are going to need better wages to go the next level. I guess they will have to look for the next sweat shop stand for cheap labor.
Crushing the Unions and Liberals is not crushing Americans. It’s crushing special interest groups that are destroying the US and it’s economy you ass hat. We’re not going to sit by and let this happen any more. Get ready for the political fight of your left wing life. You commies are forcing us hard working job producers to leave work and spend more and more time fighting you job killers off. We know what’s going on and we’re not going to let it happen any more.
Hank’s correct. It has been proven over and over again if you remove all of the barriers to business and taxes that the unions nad government cause the economy thrives. The cost of goods go way down and people are able to negotiate their own wages. Unions are completely corrupt and totally and completely take advantage of their members. They out right steel from there members. Anyone see the autoworker union’s headquarters????? Google it and see what goes on.
This G4DoucheBag is out of his mind. You being a musician says it all. Totally out of touch with the realities that us working class people must deal with on a daily basis. Bush shouldn’t have let his experts talk him into the bailouts that were brought about by years and years by liberal policies and abuses (Fannie and Freddie ring any bells???). Obama and his dirt ball buddy Rahm never let a good crisis go unused and boy are they taking advantage of this one. They have so completely screwed everyone in this country along with Pelosi and the rest helping them. Fake unemployment over 10% real unemployment over 25% and rising. Only a left wing nut drone would buy any of the BS G4DoucheBag has to spew. The trend of last Tuesday will be repeated until all of you liberal dirt balls are voted out of office. Then and only then will the jobs and the economy come back.
Nice try G4 idiot. Everyone who is against your communist agenda is a hater right? Well we the people aren’t falling for that crap. We know what you and your buddies are up to and we will stop you. And I’ve seen posts by Proud American and Christoff many times over the years. They use Macs and own successful businesses that are probably struggling thanks to Maobama and friends. Not that an unsuccessful musician like yourself would know what running a real business is all about. Ahole.
I bet G4D is a cocktail lounge pianist at best.
Obviously, based on the facts that my fellow conservatives speak here, there is no way in hell that Apple should manufacture a thing in the US until the US gets its act together again. Vote the liberals out and start a clean business slate! Everyone will prosper except for the commies. Say no to this health care – cap and tax nuclear attack on our economy and way of life too. Pure insanity.
I agree the unions and democrats are destroying the US and putting a stranglehold on our economy. This has to stop. Apple keep manufacturing in China until things “CHANGE” here in the US.
No way should Apple manufacture in the US until a more pro-business administration is voted in.
The Wingnut bus just pulled up in front of Mac Daily News.
Alex, I’m a musician by hobby and a retired Marine who continues to serve his country faithfully and honorably.
I’m a veterans rights activist and my first order of business has now become a catalyst for a massive push for conscription! I am going to put you pussies in your place by starting a campaign to weed out you fucking pretenders.
So man up Alex, Eddie, Monica (Franken is your friend) and Hank. You can hide behind your cloak of deception but we’ll see who has the last laugh.
Canada! Get ready.
I’ve not forgotten you either Leon. Since you’re so close to the border I suspect you’ll be the first pussy to flee.
@Alex
And I’ve seen posts by Proud American and Christoff many times over the years.
Really? Where? I defy you to offer up a single shred of evidence that you even know Proud American and Christoff.
If you can produce “years” of evidence that you are actually in the same league, I’ll leave MDN forever! You got that, liar?
Google Christoff and the only Christoff of any significance is on Facebook and happens to be a musician who is surrounded by other musicians. Of course there is Christoff who owns Christoff and Sons flooring company.
As for Proud American, not a single blip on any forum whatsoever.
The only place I haven’t searched are these boards. So I would ask any member here beside those that got off the the bus to vouch for their identity.
@Kelly
I bet G4D is a cocktail lounge pianist at best.
What? Is that supposed to be some kind of slam against cocktail lounge pianists?
What do you do, Kelly? Drive the Wingnut bus?
That wouldn’t be fair to cocktail lounge pianists. This person is just a complete liberal-commie troll. We real business workers, wealth and job creators have had it with your ilk’s crap. Change you can count on is coming right back at you commies.
Great link Proud American. Scary how the communist goals perfectly correspond to what has been happening over the last 40 years.
@andrew
Great link Proud American. Scary how the communist goals perfectly correspond to what has been happening over the last 40 years.
Scary how the communist’s goals mirror those of some american businesses whereby one percent of wealthy americans want to control it all.
You “real business workers, wealth and job creators” are feeding the beast. Your bosses are receiving handouts from the hardworking Americans while taking the lion’s share of your company’s wealth.
You work in cubicles like rats in a maze! You secretly hate your jobs and believe you can break away from the pack by becoming entrepreneurs.
You’re so clever Andrew, but you’re still a working stiff who drank too much wall street kool-aid.
You can come in here a brow-beat us with your divisive and rhetorical McCarthyism, but we’ve seen it all before. He, like you will die in disgrace if you don’t wake up to the truth.
Renouncing Communists does not an American make!
Serving our country in meaningful ways, rather than preaching hate and divisiveness, rocks
/Posted to twitter
@Alex
Of course there is Christoff who owns Christoff and Sons flooring company.
Perhaps, he specializes in astroturf, huh!
Just as I thought, you’re all way out of your league, so back to the bus… get ’em outta here kelly before someone takes sides with me.
G4Dimwit is a jealous, lazy, loser who can’t make it in the business world. It’s easier to demand the government take away the private property of the hard working producers to give to the minority of lazy losers like yourself. That is not what this country was founded on you freak. Renouncing communism is something that every proud american should do. You liberals are deep in the middle of your sneak attack on our way of life and we are on to it. You’re exposed. Capitalism and liberty will win out over your insane version of misery, suffering, and tyranny. My company uses many, many macs and has for decades. Never were suckered into the drone like Windows craze. We also won’t suckered into the liberal-commie horrific way of life. G4Stoolie is a taker not a producer, a cancer on the rest of the population. Some people work in cubicles, others in other types of jobs. If you don’t like your job you do what it takes to get into another line of work that you like. You don’t stand around complaining and demanding others give you their hard earned money. There is nothing wrong with executives making a lot of money at all. You must hate Steve Jobs even though he takes a low salary, he still makes a lot of money. Most people take pride in their hard work and jobs. Only drug addicted, jealous through and through, sour-bitter, losers like you don’t get it. Move to China, Russia, or Iran if you love their way of life so much. We, the angry majority, will not miss you.
Andrew @ MDN says, “Change you can count on is coming right back at you commies.”
If its like your latest health care proposal, I’ll pass.
/Posted on Twitter
Elle just woke from her nap and realized she was still on the bus and missing out on all the excitement.
Based on her grammatical delivery I suspect its a monthly thing. I’m surprised she didn’t deliver the entire thing in All-Caps.
If I removed all of the name-calling from your comment it would say..
G4Dualie I love you madly, bear my children.
Folks, I have to point out that this
LIBERALS
vs
CONSERVATIVES
conversation is incredibly brain dead. The American public is in the midst of an outrageous campaign of MISINFORMATION on all sides. The HATE MEDIA from those frauds known as the ‘Neo-Cons’ is particularly diseased.
My only suggestion is to NEVER, EVER believe anything you hear from any kind of politically connected source.
Politics is sh*t. Quote political rhetoric and most likely you are playing in sh*t. You’ll be embarrassed when you realize it. Think for yourself and be true to your values. Until the human world is perfect (like that could happen) the safest route through ignorance is:
MODERATION
that is free of hate.
G4 doesn’t like tort reform so the slip and fall lawyers can’t file crazy lawsuits every time the wind blows driving up everyone’s health care costs. G4 doesn’t like portability of health care policies across state lines. G4 doesn’t like personal health savings accounts (sort of like an IRA for your own health care). G4 just wants a massive out of control government telling him/her what type of health care he is allowed to have. It’s been so horrific every where else it has been done so lets just crush the US with this downgrade in health quality and massive uptick in costs for all of us with government health care rationing. No thanks. These government types could care less about health care they just want to control us and take over the industry, like the auto, banks, etc. When does this stop?? 2010 and 2012 hopefully. derekcurie – what a pathetic post. The fight is on and we will win it against you libs.
Hey Derek,
It’s pretty simple. Liberals want tyranny. Conservatives want liberty. What do you want? We know what G4 is…..
Actually aaron I have excellent health care thank you.
I have a single-payer health care plan with access to the finest doctors that is very similar to the public option.
I have VA Health Care and my monthly payment is 19 bucks and reasonable co-pays like you wouldn’t believe. Drugs are very inexpensive.
You know what else? It will last for the rest of my life!
You can have the same if you serve your country for twenty-years or more defending the Constitution just so people like you can spew your hate.
My draft number was 211. I dropped out of college to go kick some commie ass.
No need to thank me though aaron and ed, I would do the same if asked.
Babies. Insulting, whining, screeching little babies:
“derekcurie – what a pathetic post. The fight is on and we will win it against you libs.” “Liberals want tyranny. Conservatives want liberty. What do you want? We know what G4 is…..”
None of you have a decent argument in your heads. Children of a retarded age. Go suck on the Neo-Con-Job bottle of HATE. Go buy your WalMart commie goods. Ignorance is why the USA is in rot mode. Thank yourself for the decline and fall.
Brain dead deluxe.
The subject is Mac Daily News.
@Derek
I don’t believe for minute that these so-called Mac-using non-members suddenly stumbled onto this forum to flame me or you. I’ll wager at least one of them logged out (donning their hood) to get in a few kicks. Exercising their demons.
Right back at you Derek you tool. Your dear leaders are the ones daily spewing hate. The left is the party of hate and jealousy and handouts and lack of personal responsibility. Conservatives are for freedom and liberty and the power of individual choice. Our country was founded on these principals and you commie wannabes are trying to destroy it. Not going to happen.
He G4 – good for you. If you really did serve our country we salute you. We absolutely don’t agree with your politics but we salute you. Just because health care is offered to veterans, as it should be, doesn’t mean it’s a good idea for the rest of the population. This health care takeover that is being attemped is all about power and control period. Not about what’s best for the individual.
What’s your take on that muslim terrorist attack at Fort Hood? Maobama is always quick to judge every other situation but this one.
@christoff
What’s your take on that muslim terrorist attack at Fort Hood? Maobama is always quick to judge every other situation but this one.
ohh see? There you go putting your foot in your mouth, chipping away at what little cred you had.
Before we’ve even heard a verdict of any kind, you’re already crowing that this was a “muslim terrorist attack”.
tsk, tsk, tsk
You’re such a hypocrite.
oh, and no need to thank me for serving, I’d do it again.
And you know nothing of my politics, because you and everyone like you who stumbled in to this forum haven’t read a single word I’ve written. You’re just following the rest of the sheep.
Just because health care is offered to veterans, as it should be, doesn’t mean it’s a good idea for the rest of the population.
How would you know that if you’ve never used the VA? What do you know about VA health care, other than its a downright disgrace in some areas of the country?
You know what the next big scandal will be? Big Pharma. I read today’s Bloomberg report about how Pfizer, who is selling a drug that has killed 31 people so far, considers their 2 BILLION dollar fines by the FDA as the cost of doing business.
THIS IS THE TIP OF THE ICEBERG. Don’t read it cause it will make you mad as hell…
The Department of Justice made official today its $2.3 billion settlement with Pfizer over its illegal marketing of Bextra and other drugs. The announcement is not a surprise: BNET first noted the settlement when Pfizer disclosed it in January.
For a detailed history of how this happened, click through the story ladder below. In the meantime, here are 10 interesting facts about the case:
In addition to the fines, six whistleblowers will receive more than $102 million in the recovery, the DOJ said.
“This case alone impacted more than 10,000 postal employees on workers’ compensation who were treated with these drugs,” said Joseph Finn, Special Agent in Charge for the Postal Service’s Office of Inspector General.
Whose brand name will be tarnished by the company pleading guilty to a crime? Not Pfizer’s. Rather, it’s “Pharmacia & Upjohn Company,” which will cop to felony violation of the Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act for misbranding Bextra with the intent to defraud or mislead. P&U;is, of course, a Pfizer acquisition.
In what must be the dumbest act of off-label drug promotion ever, Pfizer once put out a press release touting Bextra as an effective morphine-sparing analgesic after knee surgery. Bextra was not approved for post-surgery pain.
Former sales manager Thomas Farina, who led a team of sales reps in Brooklyn who promoted Bextra off-label, is about one and a half months into a six-month sentence of home confinement with an electronic ankle bracelet for his role in the case.
Farina’s team was called “the Highlanders” — a reference to a movie and TV show about a cult of immortals living secretly among us who must kill or be killed. Farina signed his emails, “There can be only one,” a reference to the motto of the show.
Farina became tangled in the probe when he was caught changing the timeclock on a computer in order to back-date certain documents. Farina did this after showing his team a compliance training video informing employees that they were under investigation on Pfizer.
At one point, about 100 reps were focused on selling Bextra off-label. Their boss was Mary Holloway, who paid a $75,000 fine and is currently on two years’ probation.
At the time, Pfizer’s medical directors thought Holloway’s handling of the Bextra business was “awesome.”
Pfizer first disclosed the $2.3 billion fine on the same day it announced its merger with Wyeth and released its Q4 earnings. Most media missed the settlement because of they were focused on the merger. Pfizer also detailed the investigation in several of its quarterly SEC filings, but gave less detail in its quarterly earnings press releases, which come out before the SEC filings. Because people read the press releases first, and they tend to be similar to the SEC filings, no one noticed the settlement until BNET pointed it out on the morning of the Wyeth merger.
“@Derek – I don’t believe for minute that these so-called Mac-using non-members…”
So the usual COWARD TROLL routine of anonymity whenever possible.
So F*CK them. The way to kill zombies to cut off their heads.
**THWACK**
Dump the bodies in a lime pit and go home. End of that.
Back to Mac Daily News:
Lead the way… **THWACK** **THWACK** and **THWACK**
as he wipes his hands of lime… Hey where can I get a bitchin’ katana like that?
i agree with the conservatives. maobama and liberals are completely ruining our beloved USA. my friends and family will be voting them out at every possible chance. you liberal trolls are sick to go along with all of this. at least i have my 24″ imac to take my mind off of all of this from time to time.
**THWACK**
All COWARD TROLLS shall die! Again!
The ones who would make the most money out of US-based Apple factory jobs would be the labor unions.
@HK reader
The ones who would make the most money out of US-based Apple factory jobs would be the labor unions.
Do you people ever listen to yourselves? What is wrong with you people!?
What utterly fails me is this concerted effort to bash unions just because their mission is to protect the American worker and his job! You’re lumping all unions and their locals into one massive pool of evil and that’s not fair.
And yet corporate communists who are taking handouts of taxpayer money, seeking loopholes to avoid paying their fair share of taxes, and who are dumping hardworking Americans into the streets because the slave-labor outside the US is dirt-cheap, gets a free pass.
I’ve no doubt there are some evil people running and ruining unions but that doesn’t make ALL unions evil.
Besides, corporate communists have lobbyists, another word for unions!
Wake up you, sheep!
Also, you fools don’t realize, the individual American is purposefully being left out of the debate over issues like health care, because it’s the GOVERNMENT and BIG BUSINESS making all the decision for you! WTF is wrong with you “conservative-take-my-country-back pretenders? !!!
Oh, and **THWACK**
Wow. G4 single handedly owned every single wingnut here.
Thanks Rob.
Now I’ll print this thread out and keep it for future reference.
I sure hope Kelly got all those spirited conservative pretenders home safe and sound.
Cheers!
I’ll never get used to the smell of lime.