“Mac skills have long been seen as superfluous for IT professionals; Apple platforms are rarely used in medium and large enterprises, and not even the release of the OS X operating system chipped away at Windows’ claim on the IT department. Yet some observers feel that this is set to change,” Deb Perelman reports for eWeek.
“Between October 2007 and January 2008, two dozen researchers at IBM participated in an internal pilot program designed to investigate the possibility of migrating employees to the Mac platform. At the end of the trial, 86 percent of the testers asked to continue using their Macs, leading IBM to plan to expand the pilot to 100 users by the end of 2008,” Perelman reports.
“‘I have been a true PC stalwart for two-plus decades, but after trying Vista, I’m ready for a change,’ commented one pilot program participant,” Perelman reports.
“But who will support this change? A common conception is that the IT department will not embrace Macs willingly,” Perelman reports. “‘There is almost a religious belief by existing IT staff in the Windows religion, and it’s a symbiotic relationship: They keep getting Microsoft certifications and they keep telling their bosses to continue buying Windows,’ Technology Business Research analyst Ezra Gottheil told eWEEK.”
Full article here.
[Thanks to MacDailyNews Reader “Jim H.” for the heads up.]
MacDailyNews Take: It’s not a “religious belief,” it’s a mental illness; a combination of Stockholm Syndrome and Cognitive Dissonance, to be precise. Inflict enough pain on someone and you can reduce them to sniveling sycophants in no time. It’s the Microsoft Way™. More on that here: Defending Windows over Mac a sign of mental illness.
As for IT’s willingness: CEOs, who runs the company, you or the IT guy? It’s your job to make the decisions and it’s the IT guy’s job to implement your decisions that relate to technology. You need to educate yourself instead of relying on someone with their own, possibly hidden, agendas to make extremely important technology decisions for your company. Most of you could be saving a lot of money right now, but you aren’t, because you’ve delegated an important and expensive portion of your company’s decision-making process to people who, frankly, in our experience, aren’t capable of making good, sound, strategic, long-term decisions. Most IT guys (and we know many) are not open-minded enough to be able to consider new, better, more efficient, more effective options that would benefit your company. In fact, most IT guys we’ve met will throw up road blocks and repeat myths until they’re blue in the face simply in order to avoid change. Especially change that might make their department less critical and smaller. Bottom line: most of you CEOs have given the IT guy way too much power. It’s time to take it back.
‘It’s not a “religious belief,” it’s a mental illness’
Same thing.
wha??
two dozen o4 24 people tried this.. and 86% said they wanted to keep their Macs?
soooo… 20.64 people wanted to keep their macs?
either the “two dozen” was an estimate or someone is sweking things
“….Will your company’s IT department ever willingly embrace Apple Macs?…….”
H-mmm — it MIGHT —
That is … if they happen to see what is being touted as — “The worlds smallest Leopard Machine
MDNMW=”real”… as in … Is this for real ?
friggin typos:
two dozen OR 24
is TWEEKING things
oh screw it you know what i mean
My company is 100% Macintosh. And as long as I own it, it will stay that way.
I work for a small biotech company which uses windows exclusively. IT is run by a contractor. Having got myself a new MBP I have got permission to have XP and Office installed so I can use VPN and windows programs from home. IT is still waiting for the license but should hopefully install it soon.
So it can happen but takes longer to jump through the hoops.
When I interviewed at this company (as a server software developer), I expressed a strong preference for having a Mac on my desktop, to the extent that if Windows were the only desktop option, I wasn’t interested in the job. They apologized and said that since the bulk of their users were on Windows, they could order Dells at any time, but until the fiscal year and budgeting time came around, I could only have the choice of Windows or Linux. I thought that was a good enough compromise for the short term, and used Linux until my Mac Pro came in about three weeks ago.
Needless to say, I’m pleased to be working for a company with a clue.
“Most IT guys (and we know many) are not open-minded enough to be able to consider new, better, more efficient, more effective options that would benefit your company.”
Perhaps they don’t want to be out of a job. Using the worst tool for the job sounds like a good plan from IT’s POV.
LOL
“My company is 100% Macintosh. And as long as I own it, it will stay that way.”
Mine too.
BTW, Wired thinks it’s time Monkey Boy was ousted:
“Wall Street loves a winner, and what happens when one of the most feared companies in the world becomes … limp, lame … This is a company that screwed up a real important product transition [Vista] … Ballmer has gone way above the call of duty to screw this [the Yahoo takeover bid] up.”
http://blog.wired.com/business/2008/04/betting-on-ball.html
It’a about the money. Windows creates a need for IT support, so IT supports Windows. The Mac reduces the need for IT support, so IT fears the Mac. It’s that simple.
IT folks are open to change… as long as they know their job is safe. lol
“That is … if they happen to see what is being touted as — “The worlds smallest Leopard Machine”
I’m saying “fake”. There’s an awful lot of noise in the background that is synchronized to the screen presentations and it sounds like a big honkin’ hard drive in a PowerMac. Put that together with the way the device is handled, which seems a little strange and awkward, and the clues point to a video feed cable coming up through the table to the back of this device somehow. It looks to me like it’s just functioning as a video display for a desktop off screen. You can hear buttons being pressed, but I don’t recall ever SEEING a button press on screen other than maybe the “power on” button.
Not in a million years (unfortunately). An organisation with about 5000+ users (plus another 8000 worldwide) currently already has a Mac population of about 100+ (most concentrated in the Public Information group – design, web, etc). These hundred Macs are actually NOT even supported by the organisational IT. They are told to fend for themselves. The central IT has in fact dumped a standard-issue Windows PC on each and every one of those users. That’s the only way they figured out how to provide them with access to the shared storage (Microsoft AD) and corporate e-mail (Lotus Notes, with separate LDAP – !! – go figure). Ironically enough, there is not a single corporate application that is not Mac-compatible (or there isn’t a Mac version). Corporate ERP runs on X-Window; there’s regular staple (MS Office), in addition to the Notes mail/database/app installation.
I have supported my own Mac and those in my immediate surroundings. Others just learn to do it on their own. I have connected all those Macs in my immediate circle to Lotus Notes and AD. These people have PCs, but never turn them on.
I cannot imagine what would need to happen in order for the organisation to begin hiring Mac support and stop sandbagging/avoiding/ignoring Macs.
” It’s your job to make the decisions and it’s the IT guy’s job to implement your decisions that relate to technology.”
Not to mention its their job to support the staff and give the staff what they need to get the job done. Not to dictate to them what they can and cannot use.
At my company, whose name rhymes with Nairobi, I’m seeing MBPs everywhere. Just a year ago, ThinkPads were the norm, and only a few die hard (and lucky) users managed to score a Mac lappy. Now everyone has one. Including me!
It will be a tough sell for a little while yet. I could not get my employer to get me a Mac when I asked for one recently. The reason: A solitary Mac on the “company network” a while ago reportedly caused problems.
The IT person — he was new to the company — couldn’t tell me what the problems were or when they happened. He advised that his denial of my request for a Mac was consistent with “company policy” as dictated to him. And now he continues to spend hours every week troubleshooting the company’s Windows XP machines.
Old impressions die hard. (I might have asked whether any Windows machines on the network were causing problems.) But I’m anticipating that other opportunities to discuss what the Mac could do for our company’s bottom line will present themselves again before too long.
I embrace my Mac all the time. But I CAN NOT use them in my company period.
OK, so I got so fed up with my IT hardware support staff (“We don’t support Mac. We don’t have the resources.”) that I bought a MacBook as my computer and I’m happily using it here at work (I’m sure in violation of a bunch of “best practices” regarding IT and machine usage). I really do just want to use a Mac here. So, I violate the “rules” (along with 2 linux users)
And I’m the web guy.
Interesting My Wife and I own several companies, our day spa enterprise is all Mac and will remain that way as long as we own it. Our Media Company is all Mac and will also remain so. As will our Property development company.
You don’t get 5 Diamond Service Awards if the tech you’re using sucks.
My company is 100% Macs. Always and forever.
It’s not a “religious belief, or a mental illness, or even a combination of Stockholm Syndrome and Cognitive Dissonance… IT’S A FEAR OF LOSING THERE JOBS!
iMac’s require little or no service or long periods of time… thus give the boss’s lots of reasons to down size there IT Departments!
Ones empire can be lost for a lack of poorly performing PC’s!
C1: You work for Ryobi? (j/k) Cool power tools, though.
It’s not a religious belief or mental illness. It’s CMA.
ChrissyOne,
going to the red brick building of the rhyming with Nairobi company of yours, indeed lots of Macs. Some ThinkPads too but not too many.
PS
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The iMacs in the entry hall need to be updated
No they will never be in the near future. I’ll tell you why, because a few of them had actually asked me to make sure Appletalk is turned off on Macs at the graphics department. They don’t want the network saturated with too much chatter from Appletalk. I just looked at them in disbelief. It will take a new generation that will replace these dinosaurs for Apple to make a small dent. It will also take real guts from the GOV to stop the MONOPOLY from continuing in order for Apple to gain some solid market share.
Leopard on an OQO –
Slow but technologically feasible.
Now Apple, how about time for another Ibook? Say in the $499 range? All the computer most of us need. Two plugs for a full size keyboard and a full size monitor, and call it good for 90% of what most folks that use portable for…. Make an OQO with Flashbased hard drive and you really do have a computer for the rest of us…..
Might cut into Iphone sales but believe it or not, many folks don’t need a Iphone. I need a phone, I need a computer, and where the ‘twain doth meet’ I have Skype.
OQO Smallest Leopard machine.
Sorry Forgot to reference ‘Oh My’ earlier up in the string
Well, the Mac doesn’t actually work well enough yet, and Apple’s support is too poor.
I have just had to abandon a project to move an application from Exchange/SQL to Apple Mail/Filemaker Pro because Mail & Applescript don’t work properly: the script results in a very untidy crash in the mail client.
I am afraid this is typical. I haven’t used Leopard server but Tiger server is very flakey indeed.
And there is no meaningful support.
There will be, one day – but Apple has a long, long, long way to go.
And, by the way, I am not a windows troll – I despise microsoft. But business is business – and Apple are not in the business market except as a niche player…
Sadly, no. Here there is specific animosity towards macs, holding on to the old views of overpriced elitist computers. Guess they would rather spend their money on antivirus software and million dollar Microsoft service contracts. The one VP who did support macs had switched jobs….maybe I should take the hint.
@It isn’t about religion: “It’s about the money”.
Yeah, just like religion!
I am sorry but I have to disagree whole heartedly with MDN’s take. You HIRE the IT guy to make the decisions on technology and what hardware/software platforms to use to meet business objectives and goals. CEOs shouldn’t be making those decisions.
What (I believe) you are saying is the CEOs should be hiring the right IT professionals who can make the right cost/benefit analysis and be open to the best possible hardware/software platforms to meet those objectives. If that means Macs then you want someone that can pull the trigger and get the job done.
For medium sized enterprises, it is a very costly challenge (at least in short term cash flow) to change platforms across the board. What I am doing, and I suspect many others are doing, are to start changing over 1 department at a time.
Unlike Therapguy (who sounds like an idiot), nobody is fearful of losing their jobs if they adapt to change. For instance, many CIO/CTOs would love to free up 20-30% of their staffs’ time to work on meaningful projects instead of ongoing maintenance and support. I don’t layoff any employees…they just get re-purposed to do more work that impacts our bottom line.
Apple’s strategy: Consumer adoption first and those consumers will continually champion the cause with their companies to get Mac’s in enterprise.
At our large manufacturing/retail company I’m seeing more and more Macs. However, they’re mostly confined to higher level managers, designers and testers (mostly for web/system compatibility). Too many of the tools we use are Windows (and even IE) specific to allow the actual IT workers to use Macs. And, of course, those managers all have MBPs just to do eMail, but us workers, who could use the video and horse power, have to make do with crummy 2nd rate Windows laptops. </rant>
Good take MDN. Usually, you are around the bend on the Mac love, but this time you’ve hit it.
MDN – to answer your question, “Hell no.” I work for a very large company and we have squads upon squads upon squads of “classic” IT types.
Having said that though, Apple is gaining some traction OUTSIDE of the company. Several of my coworker have recently inquired about Apple for their home use (a highly visible portion of my cube – yep cube – has Apple articles all over it. In fact a lot of articles on the wall were mentioned here.)
To the company’s (?) credit – my company is part of the “The Macintosh Guild” – which does get us discounts on products which Apple sells. (Anywhere from 5 ~ 15% for Apple branded products.) But then again, we have several discount programs – ATT, Dell, Microsoft (any program we have at work we can get for home use for $20.00 – includes Mac versions of Office.) etc.
Peace.
I work for one of the largest school districts in Arizona, and most of our computer decisions have been made by short-sighted people that are more interested in job security than what is best for the students. They will always sing the mantra that Macs are more expensive and cost more to maintain. It’s ironic that ignorance is holding back an institution whose sole purpose is education.
El Guapo –
most of our computer decisions have been made by short-sighted people
Not sure if having computer decisions made by tall, blind people is any better.
Peace.
@ grognard
Thanx fer the credit —
I’m surprised MDN hasn’t been all over that one by now–
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I wonder what their “take” would be ?
One good reason to not let Macs on a mixed network (at least those using AppleShare as opposed to SMB) is the fact that Macs tend to litter files all in every folder an OS X user visits. Some of these are invisible and can be hidden by Windows (default config), but some files show up even when that setting is turned off.
There are tools that allow you to configure a Mac so it doesn’t deposit these files, but that’s a hassle that would not be welcome for a large Mac roll-out.
Funny how this “IT is anti-Mac” nonsense is still be plugged here at MDN. Those of us that actually spend time in corporate IT departments and see all the iPhones and Mac laptops that have appeared will beg to differ of course. Apple’s lack of decent corporate support, lack of published roadmap, and insistence on single-vendor lock-in mean for the enterprise the Mac isn’t even on the radar unless for small specialised deployments. IT staff these days think Macs are great, but still aren’t suitable.
Personally I’d love nothing more than to get rid of all the Microsoft software at my clients, but if it were to happen it would be to Linux, not OSX. Most enterprises will say the same.
@ Oh My
You deserve the credit for this find. MDN isn’t all over it because I don’t think they see the implications. If a niche product like OQO can be unlocked and loaded with OSX ( evidently no hardware additions) how long will it be before this can be done on a Viao or gasp, a Dell? I wonder how how they ‘fooled’ the OQO to recognize and install OSX (clearly I’m no programmer)?
I think the form factor of the OQO is cool though – Perfect for a quick web surf while traveling or a quick e-mail, and then dock it full screen and keyboard for real work at a desk or back in the Hotel.
86 percent of two dozen (24) people? So, 20.64 people wanted to keep their Macs? Must be the “new math”!
@fatal
Wow, you took the words right out of my mouth! I was so anxious to get my two cents in that I didn’t read your post. Sorry. Great minds and all that.
Wasn’t this a rehash on another IT won’t support mac tirade article a week or so ago?
Anyways this is a very hard sell for large 5000+ employee companies. With cost effectiveness beaten into our heads and having us question if we need to order a new stapler, what fool would suggest we migrate X number of users to a mac that:
1. would need support, if I surveyed our 1000+ IT department I might find 10 people besides myself who use a mac daily
2. cost of hardware. Again .. make a G5 barebones built for business for under $1000 and it would sell.
3. Network / LDAP / AD intergration, again further expense to make it “work”
4. internal applications – we have hundreds of these that would need to be converted to run on mac (or what have users use fusion / parrells?)
Sure I can see there *might* be ROI / TCO reduction once your fully moved, but there is huge cost conversion involved as well education / training.
What is with the whole IT rant, apple has certification too. If I want to know something I learn it and make myself proficient with TECHNOLOGY be it windows, OS X, Linux etc this whole beat on IT be it MBP, Iphone is getting old, we support what companies pay us to support, these descisions are made at the CIO level and for large companies your dealing with several across different IT divisions.
Maybe Apple will next try to be Cisco so my CCNA isn’t of value because I havn’t switched to the latest apple switch?
Get a clue.
@Tommy Boy
I Wish That Every Company Is Like You…. Oh How I Wish…
(Now Stuck With A Lighting & Furniture Company And All Of Them Uses Windows, Don’t Even Know What A Mac Can Do…. *Sigh*)
I am a VP of Finance and when I requested a Mac half-serious, our CFO ran it by our new CIO and he state I could use my own Mac if I wanted to, but that our IT department would not support it. Thankfully, Macs don’t need much support. I also learned shortly thereafter that our new CIO has plans to move our entire company over to Vista in the next year or two. With that in mind, I am going to bring an old G4 tower that I have into the office to use for work. It already runs circles around my core duo Dull laptop running XP and there really isn’t a single application that I need that is only on XP. We run Oracle Financials and it works just fine on Safari.
The tide is turning though. If I would have asked the same question a few years ago, the answer would have been a definite NO!
@ Ampar
No, I don’t work for Ryobi, but I do have a large collection of their power tools. I’m a bit upset, though, that the friction lock on my router broke off. Other than that, all my Ryobi gear is top notch, including my 18v 6 Pack set. Nothing like having a battery powered tiger saw to fight the kudzu. Good stuff.
@ Seahawk
Hey, you’ve been there! You’re very brave to walk under Suicide Bridge to get there. I’ve been very nearly hit by jumpers on several occasions, though I haven’t seen a good splat in a while. Be sure to park your car IN THE GARAGE.
@Lurker_PC,
“a highly visible portion of my cube – yep cube – has Apple articles all over it.”
(sniff, sniff) Thank you for the moving memorial.
@C1,
So…..uhhh…..what else are you doing with that Ryobi gear? Customizing any of it?
I love it when Apple fanboys pretend to be IT experts. That’s why the Mac Pros at work have been out of action since some smart cookie tried to put Leopard on then. It’s a good thing they don’t do anything real important on the Macs, that’s what the Windows and Linux machines are for.
You can’t say your company is 100 % Mac if your company comprises of one person (you) and nobody pays you for you work. What you’re saying is you’re unemployed so you play with you Mac in your garage all day.
Quite.
“Will your company’s IT department ever willingly embrace Apple Macs?”
In the case of my company, somewhere around ‘never’, at a rough guess.
“I love it when Apple fanboys pretend to be IT experts. That’s why the Mac Pros at work have been out of action since some smart cookie tried to put Leopard on then. It’s a good thing they don’t do anything real important on the Macs, that’s what the Windows and Linux machines are for.”
Yeah, it’s comical, really, as if people who think their Mac is the IT infrastructure have any real clue about what’s involved in running IT operations for organizations with hundreds or thousands of users.
Talk about coincidence. Just yesterday one of the web marketing employees was frustrated by a wireless network connectivity issue on her issued ThinkPad. She said we should just get Macs in marketing. I looked at her and asked how her Leopard upgrade went on her personal Mac laptop (already knowing the answer) and she said, “Actually, the upgrade broke all my iPhoto and wireless connectivity so I had to start from a fresh load.” She also had to upgrade her Verizon router firmware for Leopard.
As for the ThinkPad…it was just too far away from the Cisco WAP. Turned the corner and it came back on.
Funny story…
I work as a preofessor at a University on the East Coast (Mystery, mystery…). I had issues getting on their WiFi last semester, because it was all ghetto.
I asked the IT department to help me deal with this issue. Being a faculty, you would think you can get a little help here and there…
Well, how great was my surprise when this over weighted, bald guy told me that he did not even want to touch a mac, and that the IT department did not deal with this.
I asked him who dealt with the coupld hundreds that the University has in the iLab, but he did not answer, and left my office…
So, bottom line is: The IT at my University are anti-mac, and still in the middle-ages when concerning computers. The saddest thing is that the IT team does not even update softwares on their PC. I have been having issues with a couple of professors I work with, sending them eMails with .docX documents, and they cannot open it, because they still run freaking Office 2004!
I have one word to say: LAAAAAAAAAAMMMMMMMEEEEE
My company won’t. They once considered using blackberries but decided to stick with their beloved jazjams. I doubt they know what the iphone is capable of. Thanks to the loophole of me being a graphic artist I have the only mac in the building. I wonder what the IT guys are up to? It’s been so long since i had to call them.
@ Another IT Guy…
That was a terrible story.
“Actually, the upgrade broke all my iPhoto and wireless connectivity so I had to start from a fresh load.”
Bullshit.
Apple stock is going through the roof again. Let the IT Ctowd keep their windows machines if they want. Live and let live. If any of you have the stocks widget instaled you can watch go up by the second, just set a hot corner and keep refreshing it.
I meant Crowd. Damn my fat fingers.
@DaveH: why is the single-vendor lock-in of requiring everything to run Windows better than the single-vendor lock-in of requiring everything to run OS X on Mac hardware?
This is something I don’t understand. I mean, I can understand requiring multiple competing vendors — it’s a way to ensure that there are no sweetheart deals and the business is covered in case a vendor goes out of business.
But Microsoft is the sole vendor and sole source for Windows. So it seems to me that if single-vendor lock-in is prohibited, it ought to prohibit Microsoft software as well.
@Mac User
That’s a good point, and definitely the reason why more and more IT departments are moving their internally built applications away from Microsoft dependency and onto open standards. If Microsoft then get heavy, there is the option to remove Microsoft technologies off the corporate desktop/server estate, one by one if necessary. In a lot of companies it is already happening, with Firefox replacing IE for instance.
But what businesses don’t want to do is swap a software vendor lock-in for both a software and hardware one. OSX adoption would mean just that.
Macs are not the IT pariahs they were once viewed as, as other posters above testify to, but unless Apple license OSX to other hardware vendors I can’t see it getting widespread enterprise adoption, and despite what some Mac people think that’s actually the right decision.
“”Actually, the upgrade broke all my iPhoto and wireless connectivity so I had to start from a fresh load.”
Bullshit.”
Pull your head out of Jobs’ ass. Total truth. Wouldn’t have to make it up…this is old news:
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=7123150
“Users suggested a variety of solutions, including applying the post-Leopard update Apple said fixes log-in issues as well as a vaguely-stated “connecting to some 802.11b/g wireless networks ” problem. Other ideas ranged from finding and possibly removing the “AppleAirport2.kext” file to toggling IPv6 on/off.
Commonalities between users reporting the problem were difficult to define. Some, for instance, said they had used the “Upgrade” option to move to Leopard, while others said they had picked “Archive and Install” or even wiped their drives clean before installing Leopard from scratch.”
Just because Jobs approved it doesn’t mean it’s perfect. And it doesn’t mean it’s bad or even unsuitable for the enterprise environment…except that Apple doesn’t care about the enterprise. And who can blame them? Does Apple really want to invest and implement 24-hour corporate support call centers and 4-hour on-site response times? I don’t think so, but that’s what’s required in an IT environment.
Your story is still a bullshit story.