“The former PDA giant’s embarrassing cancellation of their Foleo mini-laptop [late last week], ignominiously announced on their CEO’s blog, is just the latest shovelful of dirt in the grave of a company which once defined the handheld computer for millions of people,” Sascha Segan writes for PC Magazine.
MacDailyNews Take: Actually, Apple defined the handheld computer – for Palm and everyone else. (If you’ve owned and used a Newton, you understand.)
Segan continues, “Palm has had two big, new ideas in the past three years: the Foleo and the LifeDrive. Both have been good concepts, slightly ahead of their time, but lacking in the sheen and finish that you see on top handhelds. When the LifeDrive came out, 4GB in your hand with a huge screen and the ability to edit documents was a new, great idea—except the thing was a slow, buggy mess. The Foleo, meanwhile, could have been a lightweight alternative to laptops, except that Palm decided to position it incomprehensibly as a ‘smartphone companion.’ Nobody wants an extra device.”
MacDailyNews Take: The Foleo was a “good concept?” Puleeze. From day one, Foleo was a joke to everyone except Palm and Sascha Segan, it seems.
Segan continues, “There’s still a sliver of hope for Palm. One company has come back from this level of ignominy to glory: Apple. When Steve Jobs returned to Apple in 1998, the company was in miserable shape. Our editor at the time, Jake Kirchner, was asking, ‘Will we miss Apple when it’s gone?'”
Segan writes, “Jobs slashed product lines and introduced several visionary new products, starting with the iMac in 1998, heading through OS X in 2000, and culminating with the iPod in 2001. It was a long road back, but Apple walked it. Will Palm have a Steve to save them?”
Full article here.
The odds are strong that Palm does not have a Steve to save them, but they certainly have the Steve to bury them.
As we said last Tuesday when Palm killed Foleo: “It all comes full circle: Apple brought Palm into this world and Apple’s gonna take ’em out of it, too.”
And does every floundering company facing trouble have to evoke some desperate hope that some “Steve Jobs” miracle worker will swoop in to save them? Apple and Steve Jobs are the rare exception, not the rule. Most companies that have lost whatever vision they had don’t recover at all, much less recover to dominate entire industries. The fact is, some companies don’t deserve or need to be saved as they would serve no useful purpose if they were; they’re better off dead.
Palm is an anachronism. Some would argue they always have been.
Handheld? Palm? Get it?
I think its too early to declare Palm dead. Please remember that business accounts will continue to use Palm. iPhone has no business being in “business”. It’s too lame on the Smartphone part. Windows Mobile, RIM, Palm blows it way. Don’t forget full MS Exchange Support. Without that, iPhone has no chance of taking anybody over. Sorry to break it to you guys, but thats just how its going to play.
That’s why they’re called Palm in the first place. It’s not a coincidence.
MDN – get a clue, we all love Apple, but Palm, not Apple, defined the handheld computer. The Newton no more got it (handwriting recognition) right than Windows got the GUI right.
Palm circles the bowl along with Creative and Real Player
A bit of a note though.
Apple IS INDEED cheapening the iMac line to discourage pro\’s from using them instead of Mac Pro\’s. They have already cheapened the MacBook line and seen a rush of sales of matte screen MacBook Pro\’s, so the tactic worked.
New iMac G5\’s now have
1: Glossy screens (unsuitable for longterm use)
2: Lower quality LCD\’s than previous models. Aka \”entry level\” LCD\’s (HardMac has the scoop)
http://www.hardmac.com/news/2007-09-10/#7165
Aye, Palm absolutely created the handheld space, and to some extent still owns it. There is still no more stable, flexible, useable platform in handheld computing than PalmOS.
OSX has a real opportunity to deliver the killing stroke if they bring iPhone to the developers. Just as OSX for Mac is strongest because of its galaxy of great apps, OSX for iPhone will be at its strongest when the same is true. Until then, I still love my Treo and all the wonderful things it does that iPhone still doesn’t: copy and paste to name two.
Wasn’t Palm founded by Apple guys after Newton was canceled?
OK, No. It was Jeff Hawkins of GRiD.
Nevermind.
Congratulations on being the first troll to post in this thread.
Originalrecipes,
no need to apologize.
Just put your silly post in a file somewhere on your PC and bring it out in a year ….. and you will blush deeply.
@me, get your own clue.
Sony defined the portable music experience, but the WalkMan and Sony, for that matter, are irrelevancies now. They deserve absolutely no homage, no respect, no genuflection of any kind whatsoever.
And it was our beloved Steve that killed the Newton and the eMate to make room for the iMac. Given more time and development, those two handhelds could have been marvelous machines.
World of MDN readers:
Please congratulate me on the very soon replacement of a Palm V (still doing just fine…7+ years OLD!) with an iPod Touch. It’s been a nice ride, and finally the iPod morphed into a PDA.
WOO – HOO….I’ve been waiting for this day for some time.
@ DKCR
Whats with all the ” \ ” in your post ??
you trying to remind us that youre a PC troll ?
@DKCR
New iMac G5\’s now have…
iMac G5? Where the hell have you been… G5 is dead just like my namesake and your brain.
As we said last Tuesday when Palm killed Foleo: “It all comes full circle: Apple brought Palm into this world and Apple’s gonna take ’em out of it, too.”
Ahh, nice reference to the Coz. This Philly boy appreciates it. Have a Jello Pudding Pop on me.
MacDailyNews Take: Actually, Apple defined the handheld computer for Palm and everyone else.
I was wondering when credit would be given where credit is due. None the less, I liked Palm, but they fell asleep at the wheel and demonstrated exactly what not to do in the personal electronics industry.
Bye Palm, it was real…
MW= “corps”. No kidding…
By the way…the Palm was used only for occasionally-needed on-the-go calendar entries, and other digital note-taking. It sat in my bag most of the time.
A better history of Palm is here. Btw. and incidentally, Palm’s first CEO, Donna Dubinsky was from Apple. But Palm didn’t stem from Newton or Apple (no pun intended.)
From Theodore F. MacManus’ 1915 Cadillac ad:
In every field of human endeavor, he that is first must perpetually live in the white light of publicity. Whether the leadership be vested in a man or in a manufactured product, emulation and envy are ever at work. In art, in literature, in music, in industry, the reward and the punishment are always the same. The reward is widespread recognition; the punishment, fierce denial and detraction. When a man’s work becomes a standard for the whole world, it also becomes a target for the shafts of the envious few. If his work be mediocre, he will be left severely alone – if he achieves a masterpiece, it will set a million tongues a -wagging. Jealousy does not protrude its forked tongue at the artist who produces a commonplace painting. Whatsoever you write, or paint, or play, or sing, or build, no one will strive to surpass or to slander you unless your work be stamped with the seal of genius. Long, long after a great work or a good work has been done, those who are disappointed or envious, continue to cry out that it cannot be done. Spiteful little voices in the domain of art were raised against our own Whistler as a mountback, long after the big would had acclaimed him its greatest artistic genius. Multitudes flocked to Bayreuth to worship at the musical shrine of Wagner, while the little group of those whom he had dethroned and displaced argued angrily that he was no musician at all. The little world continued to protest that Fulton could never build a steamboat, while the big world flocked to the river banks to see his boat steam by. The leader is assailed because he is a leader, and the effort to equal him is merely added proof of that leadership. Failing to equal or to excel, the follower seeks to depreciate and to destroy – but only confirms once more the superiority of that which he strives to supplant. There is nothing new in this. It is as old as the world and as old as human passions – envy, fear, greed, ambition, and the desire to surpass. And it all avails nothing. If the leader truly leads, he remains – the leader. Master-poet, master-painter, master-workman, each in his turn is assailed, and each holds his laurels through the ages. That which is good or great makes itself known, no matter how loud the clamor of denial. That which deserves to live—lives.
PC Apologist,
I’m not sure what you’re on, but PalmOS and stable should never be spoken in the same sentence. PalmOS should have died 2 years ago, but didn’t. Palm never got it with Mac support and all us mac users ended up shelling out $40 for missing sync. After dealing with a 700p for a year, it was enough to scare me into the windows mobile space, and now I’m teetering between my beloved Treo 750 (shame that it’s a Palm) and the iPhone.
Recently, Palm has just been terrible where it really counted most, customer support. They have a chance, however slim, to turn it around, but they’ve burned a lot of their fans (as the Engadget letter showed) and never fulfilled some of their promises to their loyal customers.
To be clear, I’d love to see Palm come back from the dead and have Apple and Palm really get in there and duke it out – I think we’d see really amazing things happen, but alas, Palm just ain’t got it in ’em – I don’t think.
Palm Treo Stable?¿ Please!, my Treo 700P crashed more times then my 59yr old dad playing Need for Speed Carbon.
LMAO, MMO!
You guys are too sensitive. Lets be realistic. How can iPhone gain any kind of market share without 3rd party support. Full Microsoft Exchange support. Why you can’t eve do a global search or copy and paste. These are just fanboys buying it for now. The real audience are not interested in the iPhone. Sorry to hurt your feelings, but its a realistic take on this scenario. Palm has no problems with Apple. Their challenge is Win Mobile and RIM.
Didn’t Eugene Wesley “Gene” Roddenberry define the handheld computer?
And it was our beloved Steve that killed the Newton and the eMate to make room for the iMac. Given more time and development, those two handhelds could have been marvelous machines.
iPhone is the development of the Newton (idea). Just to say it again one more time Steve killed the Newton OS because he said (and quite right I believe) one company can’t develop two operating systems successfully. So Apple focussed on OSX, would you rather Apple focussed on Newton OS? Or maybe OS 9?
I’m sorry but anyone who says Newton wasn’t the defining factor in the handheld industry is misled. It’s first three iterations had poor HW recognition but that all changed with the Newton MP 2000 and 2100. It’s HW recognition was in contrast bloody fantastic.
I had an original MessagePad, a MessagePad 100 and a MessagePad 2000.
The Newton OS was years ahead of Windows CE and the Palm OS. And the power of it’s processor was astonishing compared to other handhelds at the time and for a couple of years afterward too. The 2000 series was a very useable machine indeed and many people waited years before changing.
And just or those nay-sayers the Newton 2.0 Handwriting recognition system was used in OS X since Jaguar for the inkwell system which works with many popular tablets. I believe it is still in use with Tiger but I may be wrong and have no tablet to test it with.
Here is a link with the details: http://www.beanblossom.in.us/larryy/ANHR.html
@OriginalShiteTalker
Quit all your crap trolling about how Apple has to do this and do that. It’s done far better than Microsoft ever has without your crap advice so far, so put it back into your Vista pc, if it gives you permission that is.
Wasn’t Apple at one time looking to buy BeOS? Steve decided not to (for obvious reasons). Palm eventually moved in instead and bought the property rights.
BeOS had (has) some amazing architectural concepts and ideas which can now be bought at a bargain basement price. Apple has hired members of the previous BeOS team (cough.. cough…Dominic Giampaolo) which I’m sure would love to resurrect some life back into their “baby” and merge some of it’s outstanding features into OS X.
Just a thought….
The headline totally cracked me up. The MDN point about the Newton
holds a lot of weight as well. I own the original, (Newton 100) and the
handwriting recognition on it was quite impressive for the time. For
anyone who remembers the eMate, it had more users than many
might realize. We sold a ton of them (they were a tad clunky though).
Palm did the unforgivable in consumer electronics – it stood still and patted itself on the back for being on top of the heap several years ago.
The problem is, the heap in personal electronics is made of sand, and keeps shifting to the next heap.
Palm found itself left behind, and has never recovered. Sure, the Zire and Treo devices are nice, but nothing to set Palm apart from the competition or to bring recognition to Palm as THE gotta have it product.
The same will happen to Apple if it fails to continue to innovate and advance its products. Thus far, Apple has done a good job of regularly advancing its product line and introducing new products to keep its lead (iPod) and successfully break into new markets (iPhone).
Let’s hope the ride continues, because that only means better products for us consumers.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m a 20+ year Apple user, and my Mac Pro is my 8 or 9th Mac, but I STILL use the old palm desktop software in OS X, it works great and is well designed. (I suppose I should move over to iCal.)…..Palm was a great company too.
Still waiting for an iPhone launch date in Canada……..
Apple in 1998 was not nearly as Beleaguered as the eternal FUD machine wants everybody to think. They had billions (with a B) to throw around, nice hardware (compared to what everybody else had), a great (though aging) OS, and plenty of dedicated customers (such as myself). Steve has done a tremendous job since he’s been back, but Apple was never in the position Palm is in now. I guess it’s hard for the Silly Pundits to drop that bone.
Macaday, your the biggest Apple Fanboy on the planet. The truth really hurts when it comes out doesn’t it. Everything I posted is true and correct. Instead of backing up your argument you get all mad and jump around like a mexican jumping bean. LOL
Gosh Originalrecipes, Why you gotta be so raciest, calling the jumping bean Mexican. You could’ve said the Caucasian jumping bean. It’s just like the Mexican one, but it doesn’t have as much rhythm.
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Boy, you can blow hard… Newton was a product released before it was ready for market. I knew and owned the Newton and, my friend, the Newton, from a utility point of view, was no Pilot. You damage your credibility by always being so willing to toe the line. You remind me of a lemming commercial I once saw.
Being a big Apple fan (beyond a Mac fan), I personally don’t appreciate the bashing of Palm.
Sure, the Pilot (first Palm product) was not as advanced as the Newton. But it had some things we can not disregard:
First, the concept. The Pilot was never intended to replace te desktop, but it was a complement to it.
Second, it was smaller, and more portable. The Pilot could fit in a pocket. The Newton didn’t.
Third, the Pilot was designed right from the beginning. It was easy to use, the GUI was simple. clean and intuitive and they used the same GUI successfully for many years (just like the Mac OS)
I had a PalmPilot, a Palm III, a Palm VII (wireless) and a Palm Vx. All of them have been very useful to me, and I used (and liked them) a lot.
Now, I’ve never had a Newton (I can’t deny it looked so much cooled than the Palm, and I wanted one) so I’d be very unfair to compare it with the Palm.
I always considered the PalmOS a better choice for PDAs than Windows CE (or portable or however it’s called now). When I tried a Windows CE device, sure it felt like Windows, but it was confusing, complicated and non-intuitive to use…. just like Windows.
Does anybody remember some Palm spin-offs, like the HandSpring Visor? I know people who loved it. It even had an MP3 module and a cell phone module. No comparison with the iPhone. I’m just stating that they already were thinking about a PDA with phone and MP3 capabilities.
The big problem with Palm was their inability to push their product to the next level. The fact is, as today, nothing beats the iPhone / iPod Touch interface for PDAs.
But Palm did something for PDAs: They made them popular, affordable and usable. They built a great product which was well regarded and useful when released.
I can’t speak for the new generation of Palms, but I can say the old ones were very stable.
I think Palm, as an important contributor to technology, deserves a little respect. And if Palm falls, I’ll feel sad about it (as I feel sad about the fall of icons like DEC, Netscape, Digital Research, BeOS, and the potential fall of Silicon Graphics, and let’s not forget the danger our dear Apple was back in 1996).
Sorry, but the closure of a company which built good technology is not fun. It’s only fun when it’s SCO or Microsoft, but I don’t think that’s the fate Palm deserves.
Originalrecipes said above:
“Lets be realistic. How can iPhone gain any kind of market share without 3rd party support. Full Microsoft Exchange support. Why you can’t eve do a global search or copy and paste. These are just fanboys buying it for now. The real audience are not interested in the iPhone. Sorry to hurt your feelings, but its a realistic take on this scenario.”
Sorry to disagree pal, but one million iPhone users can’t be wrong. These are not just “fanboys” as you dismissively describe them. They are not just early adopters. They are men and women of all ages and demographics expressing their pent-up need for a solution that until now really did not exist.
My advice is to keep your pants on. The iPhone is a very young product, and unless you’re into clubbing baby seals, as it seems that you are, give it some time and watch what happens. I’m not the only person to notice that the main desktop (or palmtop) of the iPhone and the iPod Touch have a lot of open real estate for more icons. I have a feeling that in a couple of months, we’ll see more of this space used up by things that might make you eat your words. As for Exchange support, don’t be surprised if a deal gets struck. There’s obvious sentiment for it, but things take time.
Patience. Ever heard of it?
If it get REALLY bad, someone (not Apple) will buy Palm.
Maybe Microsoft will buy Palm… instant Zune Phone.
The Penalty of Leadership posted an absolute gem above, the Theodore F. MacManus’ 1915 Cadillac ad text. Great stuff, and very illuminating. I’d read the text several times before, but it’s still relevant today.
Frankly, I’m tired of all the drivel posted on MDN and on sites like myapplemenu.com. There are so many “journalists”, self-annointed pundits and bloggers who are clueless. Apple might not be perfect, but then, nobody is. But they have set the bar so much higher than almost any other company in the world for standards of quality, design and often, innovation. No, Apple does not invent everything. But often, the company sees the genius in another idea that was poorly executed, and goes to work on nailing it. More often than not, the company succeeds. Brilliantly.
And for its leadership and standards, lesser men make a career of trying to bring down something they cannot truly understand or appreciate. Based on the trash I see published every day, I realize the world is populated and polluted by lesser men. The writing of Theodore MacManus is poignant even today.
Thanks for sharing this!
The palm killer is a version of OSX that developers can access in the iphone and touch. A. Platform. Yesssss….
I’ve come to realize that there are lots of issues in going from a closed iPhone to an open platform. But I think it’s where Apple needs to go. For the same reason they needed to be in the phone business. (On the horizon the only real competition for the iPod was going to be the cellphone.)
And Apple should be Apple and take its time and get it right.
SJ gaves us the ipod… but he also gave us Cocoa, and actually bundles dev tools with the OS. Imagine a Cocoa-like (or Cocoa itself) framework to program a pocket touchscreen device, with an OS that can protect iself and its battery life. Not an easy task. But certainly The Next Big Thing.
It would also re-ignite MacOS development and non-web development. And if Apple forgets MS exchange compatibility, it doesn’t matter–independent developers would answer the need.
THAT is your Palm killer… and would do some real damage to the whole Windows ecosystem.
Just the IDEA makes me excited to be a developer!
It’s as simple as copy and paste. If the iPhone doesn’t have it it’s usless to me. I need a replacement for my T5 which is pushing 3yrs old now and it’s showing its age.
Any guesses on how long Apple will wait to add this simple feature which will turn the iPhone it a true PDA? When it does happen that will be the death of Palm, RIP you served me well.
Apple might have invented the handheld but Palm defined it, in that it made the space its own.
Palm itself, whatever happens, does deserve respect. They were pioneers. Newton got it wrong… Palm made a much simpler (and yes less capable) device and hit the sweet spot. And I say this as a former Newton owner.
Most of us here probably do not wish them well… simply because we’d like to see OSX in their “space”. But let’s not treat them like the Borg or the Dell.
‘How can iPhone gain any kind of market share without …. Full Microsoft Exchange support.’
Well, Blackberry does not have Microsoft Exchange support and it is doing quite well, thank you very much.
I guess that makes you an Idiot, doesn’t it?
First thing they oughtta do is change their name from “Palm” to “StinkFist”.
Everything else will work itself out…..
How many trolls can you fit in one thread? I feel like I’m reading a fairy tale?
Bac on topic – to be successful Palm needs to correctly predict which is the next hot product. It then needs to develop these in time. It also needs to make them well and be able to sell them at a good profit.
MW pressure
I too will lament the passing of Palm. I have had several Palms going back to a IIIx, and a couple of different Handsprings and have loved them all. The Springboard slot was pretty neat. And don’t forget that Handsprings were Mac compatible out of the box with their USB docks. I even read a book about Jeff Dawkins and the creating of Palm, “Piloting Palm”. I was a Palm fanboy.
I still use my Palm Tungsten T2, which I consider the best all around Palm that isn’t a phone. Nice screen, not too big thanks to the sliding case, and tons of shareware and useful apps like Splashdata. It’s also pretty darn stable. I quit paying attention when they sold Palm OS to some Chinese company and starting putting Wince in Treos. What a betrayal.
As for the Newton, I owned a 2100 and felt it was a great idea, but I never used it. It was too fat, too heavy, and it didn’t sync to my Mac. The handwriting was a hoot though. Glad that Apple kept it alive as Inkwell in OSX.
Now that the iPod is a full fledged pda/communicator, I no longer feel like Captain Kirk had all the cool gadgets. Seeing Apple surging past its former foes makes me miss Palm a little less, but I wish they could have turned BeOS into a new PalmOS and given Apple a run for their money.
Can not resist…
@Mr. Peabody
“I’d love to see Palm come back…”
I bet you would!
Again. Can. Not. Resist…
@cuz I’m the taxman
“I have had several Palms”
Again. Can. Not. Resist…
@cuz I’m the taxman
“It was too fat and heavy”
@Originalrecipes
If yoou think it is TOO early to declare Palm dead. Then you MUST recognize that it is TOO early to say iPhone has no business being in “business”. – IN 72 days where the heck was PALM with all it’s software. RIGHT, just finding programmers to come on board.
DUDE it did well… but it could be OVER… let it go!
@Death Knell Counter Returns
Apple NO LONGER makes the iMAC G5. It’s a Duo2Core Intel.
BUT it is an extremely interesting finding. 24 bit colour? Ok, I think I get his issue… but pre-press colour correction typically requires a monitor to dsiplay Millions(+) colours and Photoshop file in 8 bit colour mode. ex. CMYK or RGB.
But thanks for the heads up. (iMAC Aluminium) can support a SECOND monitor not in the MIRRORED mode.
Hahahahahaha @PC Apologist
Your ignorance makes me laugh.
Palm did a great job… but the device first appeared as Newton.
Palm made it’s own device and improved the input hand reco that Apple never revised. Apple killed the production… Palm continued. Palm had it’s difficulties before… and HandSpring arrived on the scene from within Palm.
It’s a nice device, yet Palm has been SLEEPING.
THEY are not dead yet… but the DEATH WATCH begins.
@British Mac Head
You got it 100% — sir !!!!
It’s the seed of the hand reco… INK is.
And, yes it is still in Jaguar.
Lets hope it remains in 10.5 too.
dd
@Intellectual property?
Apple was in trouble and thought a new OS that is scaleable… (hmmmm) so it can have just ONE and use it on other projects would be a way OUT OF IT’s TROUBLE.
Apples OPTIONS were
1) Bring Back STEVE JOBS with NextStep… or
2) Buy BeOS
okay there may have been other options… but even I am ignorant on this.
My point is… Jobs was a alternative solution… he did express his NextStep over BeOS… he wanted back in.
Anyways, JOBs brought back more then just a NEW OS, or shall we say a revised NextStep. You know the rest, right?
@ GIL
Handheld – Palm – yes the company was well aware that the name was extremely suitable. Thanks.
Palm supported the Mac when others didn’t.
I’m sorry to see Palm in this shape. I think losing Palm would not be a good thing, though they clearly have a long road to come back.
Now, Apple has their entire act together. A number of years down the road, in the great unknown time after Steve Jobs, we may all wish there were some alternatives out there.
Palm = thousands of apps + enteprise + open + old OS + killer niche apps (ie Epocrates)
iPhone = cool + Apple magic + closed + few apps + no enterprise
If Palms Linux OS is solid they have a chance. There are enough Palm lovers out there still.
the folio was effing stupid.. when I first saw it I was like “destined to fail”
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