“When Apple releases new products, they’re often hailed as breakthroughs,” Jefferson Graham reports for USA Today. “But with the recent update of its beloved iMovie software, Apple finds itself in an unusual position: defense. Longtime iMovie fans aren’t happy.”
“Apple isn’t apologizing. It says it wants a new audience for iMovie and that the redesign had to happen. ‘The consumer video-editing industry is dying,’ says Rob Schoeben, Apple’s vice president of applications and product marketing. ‘It got crushed by digital photography,'” Graham reports.
Graham reports, “Most camcorder owners never bother with video editing. Yet they will use software programs such as Apple’s iPhoto to manage their pictures and growing collection of video clips from still cameras, Schoeben says. Apple was forced to do a ‘radical reinvention’ of iMovie to get its users to work with their video clips, he says. Schoeben believes video novices will find it easier to edit with iMovie and, thus, use the program more. ‘This may be controversial at first, but long term … we’ll be fine.’
Graham reports, “Schoeben says iMovie has more advanced features than many on the message boards realize. Apple just hasn’t done a good enough job of letting people know about them, he says. More tutorials will be posted online like the ones at http://www.apple.com/ilife/tutorials/#imovie
Much more in the full article here.
MacDailyNews Take by SteveJack: Longtime iMovie users aren’t happy, but average consumers should be ecstatic with the new iMovie ’08; it’s actually a triumph. Just so you know where I’m coming from, in addition to my brief bio below, I am a former 15+ year professional TV producer and video editor. Chances are good that you’ve seen something I’ve edited – most likely on a Mac-based Avid system costing over $100,000.
Schoeben’s right: people weren’t using iMovie because iMovie was too daunting (believe it or not). iMovie used to be and was designed to be a baby non-linear editor (NLE). I hated the thing personally and never used it, either. It was too “consumerish” in spots and too “pro” in others; in other words, a hodgepodge. I moved to Final Cut Pro long ago. What Apple has done with the new iMovie ’08 is what Apple typically does: shift the paradigm. In this case, they’ve done so radically and, in the process, revolutionized consumer editing. When all is said and done, iMovie ’08 will go down as an important transformative milestone in digital editing history.
Apple has shown the world the future and some people whine that they can’t sepia tone it.
It’s no surprise that longtime iMovie users are up in arms – hey, back in the TV stations and production houses where I worked, we used to complain when Avid moved one button or changed an icon with a new Media Composer version! We were used to the way things were, dammit, and didn’t want to change because it slowed us down – at first. With iMovie ’08, Apple has done more than move a button, they’ve blown up and the reassembled the entire app! They weren’t kidding with Think Different.
Longtime iMovie users will have to give the new iMovie a proper chance. I hope that with time, you’ll come to love it as I do. Some won’t and to those I say, it’s your loss. You are most likely already too advanced an editor for iMovie anyway (hint, hint: Final Cut Express – you’ll love it). New users or those that can adapt more quickly will find a fast, intuitive, easy-to-use video editing application in iMovie ’08.
iMovie was meant to be an editing application for beginning editors and camcorder users who wanted to quickly edit footage into shorter, more interesting finished products. iMovie ’08 finally achieves that vision.
Apple deserves credit for recognizing the problem and totally rethinking an application that relatively few of its target audience used. iMovie ’08 will bring video editing to many more people than previous versions, which was Apple’s goal all along.
While I’m disappointed that some iMovie users aren’t embracing change as readily as I believe Mac users should, I can empathize. You used to know how iMovie worked and now you don’t. The temptation to just give up and scream is very real, but change is hard and, in this case, it’s worth it. This whole brouhaha reminds me so much of the move from Mac OS 9 to Mac OS X!
iMovie ’08 does need some more effects and a fuller feature set, but the foundation Apple has now laid is very, very strong and I fully expect iMovie to evolve and get even better over time. Start working with it now for simple projects, so you’ll be ready for the next version of iMovie. I doubt future iMovie changes will ever be so radical – Apple’s on the right track now – we’ll just get more features, refinements, and capabilities, but the basic premise of editing will be what iMovie ’08 has now established.
In the meantime, iMovie ’06 HD is there for the taking (and maybe Apple can rework it, rename it, and find a place for it in their lineup between iMovie and Final Cut Express where it belongs). I recommend that longtime iMovie users take advantage and use both applications, but give iMovie ’08 a real chance. Watch the tutorials (http://www.apple.com/ilife/tutorials/#imovie) and put in the time; I know it hurts, but “no pain, no gain!” Properly used, iMovie ’08 can create excellent quality product. With a little less knee-jerk and a little more exploration, I think you’ll find that iMovie ’08 is a revelation.
SteveJack is a long-time Macintosh user, web designer, multimedia producer and a regular contributor to the MacDailyNews Opinion section.
No one has brought up the most obvious reason why iMovie ’08 is no improvement. Time.
My son was editing movies in 2nd grade with iMovie 2 and uses it all the time (now in high school). iMovie (old) is a simple paradigm. iMovie ’08 may be a simpler paradigm. It doesn’t matter.
Those that have been claiming ’08 is superior seem to fall into a crowd that didn’t want to spend time on a movie. Unless ’08 has changed something drastic, it still takes time to import a movie. It still takes time to DECIDE what clips are best.
My guess is that those that are exhalting ’08 will still not edit video for any sustained period. A soccer dad has to deal with 1 hour of jittery video. It takes 10 minutes to put together a video after 2-3 hours of input and review. They still won’t edit video. It takes energy and creativity to create a movie. You have to WANT to show it to someone.
My guess is that more casual videos will be made but the old iMovie users will grow into the new iMovie users. The new crop of beginners will be begging for the features of the old iMovie after 1 or 2 videos. If a timeline appears in iMovie’08 it will be interesting how many people use the new view for most of their work.
By the way, I tried to learn Final Cut Express. When it wasn’t obvious how to do a simple cross-fade, I gave up. Old iMovie is a simple pardigm no matter what people think of the new one.
I can’t believe that they took out THEMES. OMG.
That is such a deal breaker. I am going to sell my mac and get a Dell. Apple does not care about the users anymore, it is all about the Benjamins.
They should be giving away all of their software and upgrades for free and while they are at, give away those overpriced Macs too.
What were they thinking when they thought that maybe iMovie6 was a little too challenging for the basic home user? These people should just learn how to use the software. It’s not like they have anything better to do than sit around learning software.
MND word: written
“Most of these comments were written by people with a stick up their butts, and not in a good way.”
Hurr-umph
“That is such a deal breaker. I am going to sell my mac and get a Dell. Apple does not care about the users anymore, it is all about the Benjamins.”
Oh please, don’t give us this preposterous crap. Don’t pretend we’re going to believe this posturing.
Go ahead, sell your Mac and get a Dell – you don’t even get iMovie ’06 on it and YEAH THAT WILL MAKE YOUR MOVIE EDITING LIFE EVEN BETTER!!!
Go ahead, do it!
Or just STFU and stop trying to convince the 95% of us who love the new iMovie ’08 that we’re all idiots for like things better. Go back to your hole because no matter how much you berate us, it’s not going to change one damn thing.
Just go get that Dell and starting whining over at the Dell forums of how crappy Movie Maker can’t measure up to iMovie ’04. Please, we’re begging all your iMovie HD commentards.
More lame excuses for iMovie ’08 from MDN. Sure you don’t secretly work for Microsoft?
“Schoeben says iMovie has more advanced features than many on the message boards realize. “
So simple to use that you need to spend your nights to do the most basic things (such as adjusting transitions lenghts).
C’mon.. It’s just a piece of crap software…
C’mon.. It’s just a piece of crap software…
I wonder how many of these kind of responses are from people who actually use imovies(any version).
@stevew said:
“RE:”Apple should not be caring about the market. It should be giving iMovie 06 users an improved version of the app.”
I hope you are not leaning toward a career in business…”
The market (per se) is not important. The users are important because THEY are your market.
An example. If ‘the market’ (let’s say PCs) was important for Apple it would be making commercial software for the Windows platform. Apple caters to its users. If it only cared for market numbers then they would kill off the mac. Apple doesn’t do this because it doesn’t give a hoot about the generic PC industry.
Apple doesn’t give a hoot about where the industry is going nor what the majority of people might want to do in the future in a given industry. It should just be catering to its users needs and where they want to go.
How many people actively wrote to Apple saying iMovie 06 was overkill? They should have made iMovie 06 even easier to use if they thought not enough people were using it.
How many people use GarageBand to its full extent? Are we going to get a dumbed down version of that app in iLife 09?
iMovie 06 is the new AppleWorks. It will be left untouched and killed off.
“‘The consumer video-editing industry is dying,’ says Rob Schoeben, Apple’s vice president of applications and product marketing. ‘It got crushed by digital photography,'” Graham reports.”
Uhhhh, so YouTube, Google Video, Dailymotion, and many of the sites on this LIST are dying???
NOT.
I doubt people will be using Imovie 8 to make award winning commercial films.
You COULD do that with iMovie 6.
Explain why you think that is better for people.
The 8 elementary and high schools I do tech for have extensive video editing lesson plans using iMovie 6 HD because it had all the features necessary to teach introductory movie editing to kids. Now that is all gone. So is a big, big, big chunk of a $50,000 Mac budget. Where is it going? The the free video editing software that comes with our new cameras. On Windows only. Apple just blew itself out of the media lab education market. I have never seen education sales drop so fast.
Tracking stats for BitTorrent I see that illegal file sharing of Final Cut (both forms) has gone through the roof. Literally, a 90-fold increase.
Maybe that will send a message to Apple.
Hi, I’m an Apple user. I can’t think for myself, I want Steve Jobs and Steve Jack to decide what I need. Whatever they say is good enough for me.
Lets take the Corvette and remove the V8 and put in a 4 cylinder
and call it a new breed of sport car. the public will love it Ya Ya Ya !
Iv herd people say Itunes is too complicated, lets simplify it shall we, all we need to use it is a play button and an import CD button. That should work, now everyone will want to use it Ya Ya Ya!
This is fun anyone else want to try?
Dee De DEE Dee De DEE
Rob Schoeben is a fucking moron! probably worked for Microsoft.
I have used iMovie since version 1. I watched each version get a bit more sophisticated and didn’t feel the need to upgrade after version 5 which was the first HD version. I know this because I still have it on my 12 inch powerbook that I bought just short of 2 years ago. I actually felt that even version 5 was a bit bloated with an over abundance of effects. However, it was still generally fairly easy to use and I have edited a handful of family type things on it. I never bothered to upgrade to version 6 because it seems as though the video editing features going from 5 to 6 had not changed much and I did not care about the podcast “feature”. On the other hand, trying to teach my mother (a fairly computer savvy person) how to use it just to throw together something she could give to her choir members on a DVD was a bit more of a challenge. For what she wanted to do, this new version might be better suited. Having just gotten my new iMac a few days ago, I have not had time to mess around with the applicatoin yet.
I think that for Steve Jobs to say that “nobody uses DVDs anymore” was rather presumtuous (sp?), but I would object less to the new version on principal if I knew for sure that I could move projects back and forth between 08 and 06. Unfortunately, that doesn’t seem to be the case. Perhaps that will change in the near future. Three final thoughts (for the moment anyway).
1) One of the things that made using iMovie fairly cool was the fact that if you decided to make the move to FCE or FCP, you could for the most part, do so rather easily because even with the learning curve, the vocabulary for all 3 applications was very similiar. That is no longer the case.
2) For all those people who say people like me should switch to FCE if I need to be able to do the things I have been doing in iMovie, please tell me how I will be able to afford to buy FCE. I’m a full time Grad student with very little regular income and very little time to make movies but when I do, I like to have just a few of the options I have had since version 1 of the application.
3) FCE has not been updated in quite some time other than to become a universal binary assuming it was not written that way from the start. Who knows what will happen when it is updated….
You have to ask yourself – is it that Apple didn’t have the talent to make the new iMovie as simple as the fisherman wanted yet with the features the old one had? Couldn’t they manage it? If they’d pulled that off we’d all be happy. Apple’s attitude on this isn’t doing it any favours. If you take the steering wheel out of a car it doesn’t make it easier to drive.
Consider this: whenever a new version of the proper iMovie came out, did we hear cries of THIS IS TERRIBLE, IT’S FAR TOO COMPLICATED TO USE…? No we didn’t.
iMovie 8 is looking like a disaster for education. I feel marooned by Apple. Most of our mac’s are too old to run iMovie 8 , (although less than 2 yrs old). We can’t afford to replace them, can’t afford FC, (too difficult for beginners anyway) and will forced to runn iMovie 6/HD as a legacy app. Unless there is considerable return of features as there is just not enough creative control in iMovie 8 we’ll be forced over the next few years to retire them as video editing suites and evaluate where to go.
While iMovie 8 has some great features, as an educational app it’s laid waste by iMovie 6. I can only hope that iMovie 8 evolves into something more useful.
The education market serves to introduce thousands (millions) of potential new users to mac’s. Apple would be aware that the disappointment /outrage evident in the forums is but the tip of the iceberg. They should be concerned, not telling us to suck it in.
MDN — What are you guys smoking?
You’re attempting to say that users, if they want to produce a quality movie, need to go out and buy a $300+ movie editing application in order to produce something of mediocre quality. However, sometimes, it’s extremely easy forget that Apple has some very strong competition out there, called the PC.
On the PC, users can produce virtually the same type of things for a whole lot less money than the Mac. Look at Adobe’s Premier Elements for around $100 dollars. It simply blows away ANYTHING that the Mac can do with the older iMovie ’06. It comes with themes, flexible titles, multiple movie windows displaying on the screen at once, you can convert a variety of photos into an animation, etc. You can even include Flash animations directly into the video, etc. You can improve your photos, make corrections to them, and much more — yet, you say that the Mac can only do a “portion” of this for 300+????
This does not make sense… However, you are effective convincing me that switching has been a mistake that needs corrected. I’ve already decided not to buy the new generation Mac due to iLife.
Apple — if you want to keep your customer base — please re-evaluate your crazy ideas with iLife. Rehab might be needed.
As a longtime video editor, I have to agree 100% with MDN’s take.
I also teach new users how to use Final Cut Pro. It is actually quite easy to learn, and what people ought to be using if they want to make videos.
iMovie wasn’t simple enough and wasn’t pro enough – it was failing in 2 directions.
This new iMovie looks quite exciting as a simple tool that is quite powerful at stringing together footage easily and quickly.
Note those two words: easily and quickly. Most people don’t want to take their video clips and spend 8 hours making a compilation tape. They want to spend 5 minutes and then show their friends.
If you want anything more advanced because you’re “serious” about editing, go for Final Cut Express or Final Cut Pro. They are very affordable for what they do.
I think Apple has the right idea. It sucks people got used to iMovie, but they really need to try Final Cut Express or Pro. It’s a way better application and much more powerful.
I believe that Apple has made a serious mistake eliminating features from Imovie 08. I was planning to switch to a Mac in November after OSX 10.5 was released. I planned to switch for two reasons:
1. Clean design – eliminate a lot of cables.
2. Imovie – I currently do quite a bit of video editing for my church on my Dell 4600 using Pinnacle Studio 9.35. Pinnacle Studio’s interface essentially is a knock off of the old imovie 6. Very easy to use. However, Pinnacle is buggy and unreliable!
Imovie 6 is about 80% as powerful as Pinnacle Studio. Unfortunately, I wrongly assumed that the next edition of Imovie would be more powerful than Imovie 6. Therefore, I have been waiting for over six months for the new Imovie to be released before I purchased a new Imac extreme edition. Now I see that one of the major reasons for purchasing a new Imac has been removed.
Final Cut Express to me is a difficult and frustrating product to use. (No automatic segmentation of imported video clips, no storyboard mode.) If I am stuck with Final Cut Express I might as well keep my PC and buy Sony Vegas. (It does not have a storyboard mode but at least it does segment video clips).
I sincerely hope that Apple reconsiders Imovie 08 and releases a true competitor to Pinnacle Studio or Sony Vegas. As of right now the PC has the lead in mid level video editors when it comes to ease of use. This should not be!
I don’t think that Apple understands what a selling point Imovie was. I have had several clients buy Macs in the last year and almost all of them wanted to play with Imovie. These clients are not sophisticated users, they figured out Imovie in a matter of minutes and have been producing nice movies now for several months. They have been eagerly awaiting the new Imovie because they were looking for more features. Sadly they will be disappointed. Some may be forced to run Pinnacle Studio within bootcamp. Not exactly what I or they had in mind!
Just opened up iMovie 08 to see what’s different. I have to agree that I like the themes, animation, effects, 2 audio editing lines, timeline much better in iMovie 06. To me, timeline is the most important. And before, you can make really cool movies really quickly.
However, I do like how they made it like a finder for movies and easily import clips, scan clips etc.. in 08. If only they incorporated everything from before into 08 as well.
Guess I will be sticking with 06 for now. But iPhoto 08 rocks.
Quote:
“Things are going well at the moment, but Apple is dangerously out of touch with its base, no matter their spin.”
This does get a bit tiring. I’m sure Apple is far more “in touch with their base” than *anybody* here. 50 (or 100, or 200, or whatever) people who are complaining about iMovie doth not a “base” make.
SteveJack,
I have given iMovie ’08 a chance. I’ve already put together two full videos with it. And quite frankly, I’m still not happy with it. Don’t get me wrong; there are a lot of things I do like about it. Selecting clips and putting them together is really easy; the video library is very handy; titles and transitions are very nice and don’t take any time to render like in the old version; and the YouTube integration is also a nice touch. But there was no need for Apple to remove so many of the old features that made previous versions of iMovie so cool, like video effects, themes, and of course, the timeline view.
IMO, there was nothing wrong with the old version. It was easy enough for newbies to use, but had a few extra features for more advanced users. This new version of iMovie is really inflexible compared to the old one. For instance: there are no settings that allow you to fade in or out the volume of the soundtrack. You can’t strip the audio out of a clip. If you want to add a song to the background, you can’t even control where in the movie it starts or ends, and you can’t just put in part of the song. You are forced to put in the song in its entirety, and it must begin at the beginning of your movie, and it must fade out when your movie ends before the song does. And what about the special effects? I cannot for the life of me understand why Apple had to take those out. What’s so complicated about adding a special effect to a clip? That was one of the things that made the old iMovie so much fun.
While it’s great for Apple to start appealing to novices who have never done video editing before, it is a huge mistake for them to abandon their loyal longtime users. It’s like a slap in the face to say, “Hey, thanks for using our software for so long, but we don’t give a flip about you anymore. We’re making this software for a whole new audience, so get over it.” What they should have done was create a new version that gave you the best of both worlds: an “easy” mode for beginners, and an “advanced” mode for those who want more control over their editing. Apple has always been about inspiring creativity, and this new version doesn’t give you nearly as much freedom to be creative.
And don’t tell me that if I don’t like iMovie that I should buy Final Cut Express. I’ve tried that program and it is way too complicated for me. Not to mention it costs $300 bucks. If Apple agrees to lower the price significantly I may be willing to learn it, but $300 is a little too steep when I can buy similar programs for the PC for less than half that price.
Overall I applaud Apple for trying to make this program easier for new users, but they made a huge blunder by abandoning their core user base for the sake of their new users. They should have found a way to incorporate the best of both worlds. iMovie ’08 has a lot of promise, but I really hope that future versions will bring back features like special effects and introduce an advanced editing mode for people who want to get a little more out of the video editing experience.
Saying iMovie ’08 is better than iMovie ’06 and iMovie users better adapt or else, is like saying iMovie ‘6 is better than Final Cut Express and FCE users would better go iMovie or else be left in the dust. Of course, that’s not happening in the FCE camp at all, but that’s just what has happened in the iMovie one.
iMovie ’08 is not an iMovie-line product at all. It uses a very different paradigm. It shouldn’t use the same name, as it is misleading: it isn’t even capable of opening older iMovie projects. It is another fine product. It is a poor replacement.
The real problem here is the very backstabbing to iMovie users (which do use a perfectly valid paradigm, mind you: it’s not as if FCPro is going timeline-less any day soon, isn’t it? So stop sepia-toning us already), the de-feature-… no, the killing of an already mature tool which would have benefitted from the injection of 08’s technologies as an addition.
We thought these Apple-of-old antics, corraling users into Apple technologies and then letting them die, were gone (but then the last Shake thing ought to have made us know better). One, for once, would like to have some stability.
You call us luddites. Well, what we certainly are not is blind groupies. We are fed up with every new consumer electronics tech becoming a quality and features degradation that uses at the very least two to five years to reach parity with the old, whatever the convenience gains are. Apple has been a constant example of that.
Frankly, iMovie ’08 is proof that Apple is congenitally incapable of caring for its customers: we have to fit in Apple’s Stalinist worldview or else (Leopard’s Transparent menu, indeed). And MDN is a very sad MacCheka, at that.