“When Apple releases new products, they’re often hailed as breakthroughs,” Jefferson Graham reports for USA Today. “But with the recent update of its beloved iMovie software, Apple finds itself in an unusual position: defense. Longtime iMovie fans aren’t happy.”
“Apple isn’t apologizing. It says it wants a new audience for iMovie and that the redesign had to happen. ‘The consumer video-editing industry is dying,’ says Rob Schoeben, Apple’s vice president of applications and product marketing. ‘It got crushed by digital photography,'” Graham reports.
Graham reports, “Most camcorder owners never bother with video editing. Yet they will use software programs such as Apple’s iPhoto to manage their pictures and growing collection of video clips from still cameras, Schoeben says. Apple was forced to do a ‘radical reinvention’ of iMovie to get its users to work with their video clips, he says. Schoeben believes video novices will find it easier to edit with iMovie and, thus, use the program more. ‘This may be controversial at first, but long term … we’ll be fine.’
Graham reports, “Schoeben says iMovie has more advanced features than many on the message boards realize. Apple just hasn’t done a good enough job of letting people know about them, he says. More tutorials will be posted online like the ones at http://www.apple.com/ilife/tutorials/#imovie
Much more in the full article here.
MacDailyNews Take by SteveJack: Longtime iMovie users aren’t happy, but average consumers should be ecstatic with the new iMovie ’08; it’s actually a triumph. Just so you know where I’m coming from, in addition to my brief bio below, I am a former 15+ year professional TV producer and video editor. Chances are good that you’ve seen something I’ve edited – most likely on a Mac-based Avid system costing over $100,000.
Schoeben’s right: people weren’t using iMovie because iMovie was too daunting (believe it or not). iMovie used to be and was designed to be a baby non-linear editor (NLE). I hated the thing personally and never used it, either. It was too “consumerish” in spots and too “pro” in others; in other words, a hodgepodge. I moved to Final Cut Pro long ago. What Apple has done with the new iMovie ’08 is what Apple typically does: shift the paradigm. In this case, they’ve done so radically and, in the process, revolutionized consumer editing. When all is said and done, iMovie ’08 will go down as an important transformative milestone in digital editing history.
Apple has shown the world the future and some people whine that they can’t sepia tone it.
It’s no surprise that longtime iMovie users are up in arms – hey, back in the TV stations and production houses where I worked, we used to complain when Avid moved one button or changed an icon with a new Media Composer version! We were used to the way things were, dammit, and didn’t want to change because it slowed us down – at first. With iMovie ’08, Apple has done more than move a button, they’ve blown up and the reassembled the entire app! They weren’t kidding with Think Different.
Longtime iMovie users will have to give the new iMovie a proper chance. I hope that with time, you’ll come to love it as I do. Some won’t and to those I say, it’s your loss. You are most likely already too advanced an editor for iMovie anyway (hint, hint: Final Cut Express – you’ll love it). New users or those that can adapt more quickly will find a fast, intuitive, easy-to-use video editing application in iMovie ’08.
iMovie was meant to be an editing application for beginning editors and camcorder users who wanted to quickly edit footage into shorter, more interesting finished products. iMovie ’08 finally achieves that vision.
Apple deserves credit for recognizing the problem and totally rethinking an application that relatively few of its target audience used. iMovie ’08 will bring video editing to many more people than previous versions, which was Apple’s goal all along.
While I’m disappointed that some iMovie users aren’t embracing change as readily as I believe Mac users should, I can empathize. You used to know how iMovie worked and now you don’t. The temptation to just give up and scream is very real, but change is hard and, in this case, it’s worth it. This whole brouhaha reminds me so much of the move from Mac OS 9 to Mac OS X!
iMovie ’08 does need some more effects and a fuller feature set, but the foundation Apple has now laid is very, very strong and I fully expect iMovie to evolve and get even better over time. Start working with it now for simple projects, so you’ll be ready for the next version of iMovie. I doubt future iMovie changes will ever be so radical – Apple’s on the right track now – we’ll just get more features, refinements, and capabilities, but the basic premise of editing will be what iMovie ’08 has now established.
In the meantime, iMovie ’06 HD is there for the taking (and maybe Apple can rework it, rename it, and find a place for it in their lineup between iMovie and Final Cut Express where it belongs). I recommend that longtime iMovie users take advantage and use both applications, but give iMovie ’08 a real chance. Watch the tutorials (http://www.apple.com/ilife/tutorials/#imovie) and put in the time; I know it hurts, but “no pain, no gain!” Properly used, iMovie ’08 can create excellent quality product. With a little less knee-jerk and a little more exploration, I think you’ll find that iMovie ’08 is a revelation.
SteveJack is a long-time Macintosh user, web designer, multimedia producer and a regular contributor to the MacDailyNews Opinion section.
Thanks Steve for the quality insight! I’ll give it a try.
——————–
Sent from my iPhone
SteveJack, you almost make me want to go buy a camcorder – great argument.
Stevejack hits the nail on the head. This is pretty much what I have been saying all along as well.
No matter what Apple says (sorry MDN), iMovie ’08 still sucks!
If what Apple is stating were true there would not have been such a strong negative reaction to the less than “improved” iMovie ’08.
Things are going well at the moment, but Apple is dangerously out of touch with its base, no matter their spin.
MDN is 100% wrong. In their mind Apple can do no wrong. Whatever Apple does is a revolution and anyone else is dumb shit. I love my Macs, Apple software, and iPods (many). But I don’t love them blindly. iMovie 08 sucks ass. It went from a program you could make beautiful intriguing movies on to a watered down app you can’t make anything nice on. Throwing together 2 second clips? Common Apple.
At least we still have the real iMovie around. For now.
???,
SteveJack has criticized Apple in the past. One that springs to mind: http://macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/473/
For the FIRST TIME ever, I am actually editing video content. iMovie ’08 is the only video editing application I have ever felt comfortable working with! I’m sure there are others like me who never used iMovie ’06 and will NEVER use prosumer/professional video programs. Apple has their market pegged. Longtime iMovie users angry at Apple probably should have been using FCE/FCP all along.
My 11 year old son, who likes playing on computer but not working on them, picked up iMovie with no problem. I helped him import the footage, showed him how to trim and order the clips, and he did the rest. TItles, music, transitions…… I can appreciate wanting to make a more entry level editor, but what the lack of 3rd party support in the NEW iMovie. Does Apple really expect those who knew how to use iMovie to move on to Final Cut Express?
Personally, the technical side of editing with iMovie 06 is easy. It is picking what to show and what NOT to show that I find difficult.
Forget iMovie…… we need the ability to edit our own posts!
Sorry about the grammar. That’s why I draw for a living.
yes… finally a reasonable article. This software, although I haven’t used it… I have looked into it’s capabilities and am very aware of the alternatives as I work in the film industry, looks very (VERY) promising for what it was created for. Damn the whiners… everyone should be able to create… and now they can.
This article sums it all up, and SteveJack is correct. iMovie ’08 is a superior product, especially for non-geeks.
MacArch,
“Does Apple really expect those who knew how to use iMovie to move on to Final Cut Express?”
Not really. As explained above by SJ, Apple expects those who knew how to use iMovie to use iMovie ’06 HD while learning the new iMovie ’08. The more advanced users actually should move to Final Cut Express.
@Consumer Video Editor
I am 100% in the same boat! I gave iMovie a little bit of time when I switched, but gave up, and never touched again.
iMovie 08, is a snap for an idiot like me
I understand the feelings of the iMovie 06 crowd, maybe they should make two versions of iMovie, one for us (08) and another (updated 06) and give them different names, and support them both?
thanks, makes me want to say my dual 1.8 g5 is really a fossil and not capable of running consumer software.
Sorry MDN…. normally I agree. While iMovie 08 has potential, it is still not yet up to snuff. Using Themes in 06 along with more FX options etc. makes me feel like I have given up a lot to move back to the first iteration of a piece of software. I don’t doubt that given time, Themes and FX may be added. On the other hand, while more FX may be added, it is possible Themes will not be. That would be a shame as it is super impressive and very easy to use and could make amateur movies look much more professional.
I think iMovie 09 or iMovie X will win the argument about the better movie player. If Themes and more FX options had been added, we wouldn’t be having this discussion. At least from my perspective.
And simply saying “Well, you can still download and use iMovie 6” is weak as I don’t really want to use two different programs. Themes and FX are two things that really make things easier for users.
If I want to put people to sleep…
I’ll put golf on TV…
serve a pitcher of strong drink…
or show home video.
I have been editing videos on my computers for years. When I was a PC guy it was Premier Pro, but I since moved to the mac I started using Final Cut Pro. I understand FCP and use it for most of my projects (I also understand it is expensive). With iMovie I wanted to use it for simple projects that didn’t need the power of FCP, but I could never get comfortable with it. As a very stripped down version of FCP it frustrated me at every turn. I consequently never used it. I have had a look at iMovie 8 and have found it perfect to do those simple projects and I agree with SteveJack, it is fantastic for these types of projects. For those that like iMovie 06 you could simply stick with it, but I suspect that many of you would find that FCP or FCE (which I have not used) may cover all the areas that you feel iMovie 06 is missing. For me I will love using iMovie 08 for my quick and simple projects. I am also getting my daughters interested in video editing with iMovie 08. By the way none of my projects are of a commercial nature.
Well, if Rob Schoeben, Apple’s vice president of applications and product marketing says the consumer video-editing industry is dying, that sure must be true. After all, Apple releases a new version of iMovie which has alienated most previous iMove users, why admit their mistake ? No, they will keep saying this is better. I believe Apple is now run by ex car dealers, the type that says a station wagon or a SUV suits a widowed retired man while a compact or mid-size would. Gimme a break.
MDN, are you alright ? I hope you won’t start crying because some Apple bashing is going on within your own forum. What a change from MS/Windows bashing, huh ?
It’s good to know that Apple is finally catering to the idiots among us. If you can’t figure out iMovie 6, you’re a moron. Trouble is people want everything “now”. Forget “learning” a new piece of software, even if it is superior. If they can’t figure it out in 15 seconds, they’re done!
This mentality says a lot about our society. Dumb it down to the lowest common denominator and people will flock to it.
yeah… I gotta say… no matter how “great” this version of imovie is, I would love to know why the timeline was taken away. Was it too “complex?”
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: Apple should have left iMovie ’06 on the iLife disc as iMovie Classic (and ceased further dev); and then put the new iMovie on there as well as a completely new product (with new name) for the YouTube crowd. This would have been much better for PR than the “oh well, you can download it for free” band-aid solution that they have now implemented.
Why would that have been so hard? What can be bad about 1) increasing the number of iLife apps, 2) not removing a very useful product that many people do put to good use (with its large number of plug-ins, etc), and 3) not apparently alienating current customers?
I like iMovie ’08, but it is quite limited in comparison to ’06 (for 90% of my editing, however, I use Final Cut Pro). I think that it’s a very steep climb both financially and intellectually for people to move from iMovie Classic to Final Cut Express or even FCP (essentially the same thing workflow and UI-wise).
Basically, iMovie ’06 needs to still be included in the iLife lineup as a value-added addition to the suite, while the new iMovie earns its colours.
That’s my point.
Steve, a good justification of your position. I don’t use iMovie, so I can’t comment on the relative attributes of the old and new. However, I’m hoping iMovie 08 will be less intimidating to my 80+ father, who hasn’t mastered iMovie to date, but would still like to edit his numerous family videos.
1: Pay for iLife upgrade to lose iMovie features
2: Buy FCE to regain lost iMovie features.
3: Apple makes DOUBLE Profit.
I think the accountants were in charge of this move and the 20 year old, perfect eyesight, never used a glare screen types were in charge when the glossy only screens were commanded.
I’m feeling like a M$ Stockholm Syndrome victim again, except it’s from the fruit company based in smoggy hot Cupertino.
Don’t get me started about the Intel switch, WIndows on a Mac and the numerous Mac OS X security issues, some still not fixed.
It’s got to be the smog in Cupertino screwing with Apple Co. brains
Yes I visted the mothership, so you know I’m not lying.
Hey SteveJack!!
It sure took you awhile to try to put a spin on this Apple disaster.
Not convincing I’m afraid.
Apple has been consistantly fscking it’s longtime user base.
Updates? We NEVER paid for updates!! For years!!!
We we rewarded for our hardware loyalty, not anymore!!
Now we have to pay for Mac OS X and iLife updates, and Appleworks is now history for the paid Pages/Numbers etc?
Now we get paid updates that take features away?
WTF is next? When will the greed end?
“If I were running Apple, I would milk the Macintosh for all it’s worth — and get busy on the next great thing. The PC wars are over. Done. Microsoft won a long time ago.”
— Steve Jobs – Fortune, Feb. 19, 1996
iMovie User (aka Stupid Fsck),
1. Pay for iLife ’08.
2. Apple has made iMovie ’06 HD available to you free-of-charge.
3. There is no step 3.
As SteveJack so eloquently stated, “With a little less knee-jerk and a little more exploration, I think you’ll find that iMovie ’08 is a revelation.”
319 reviews of iLife 08 at the Apple Store online. The majority of them overwhelmingly negative towards the iMovie portion of the software release.
I guess, according to Steve Jack, that the negative reviews are “knee jerk” and the positive reviews aren’t.
________________________________
Steve Jack said… “While I’m disappointed that some iMovie users aren’t embracing change as readily as I believe Mac users should, I can empathize. You used to know how iMovie worked and now you don’t. The temptation to just give up and scream is very real, but change is hard and, in this case, it’s worth it. This whole brouhaha reminds me so much of the move from Mac OS 9 to Mac OS X!”
________________________________
ok.. a couple of things, maybe three.
1. it’s not about not knowing how the new program works. I’ve used the program a ton since it’s release trying to learn to like it… It’s about FEATURE LOSS!
Gawd.. if I have to read one more paternalistic post implying “I know it’s hard to learn a new program, but come on little one, you can do it!!!” – I’ll just puke. IT’S ABOUT FEATURE LOSS DAMMIT!
And don’t give me that crap about still having iMovie 06. Yes, I still have iMovie 06, but who knows if it’s gonna work on Leopard. Who could imagine that the mac’s sold just 1 1/2 years ago wouldn’t be able to run this software release.
2. About the brouhaha over iMovie 06 becoming Magic-Movie 08 and it reminding you of the OS9 to OSX dust up. It’s easy to say that from this side of the OS9/OSX dividing line. That’s also assuming that what Apple has named iMovie 08 will be successful, which by the looks of it’s reviews so far it won’t.
3. I can’t imagine that Apple didn’t do some research to see how this version of iMovie would be received by the large user base it has. Knowing that this would be a tough sell, and having an extra 8 months to get it right. I don’t understand how they couldn’t get a few more of the previous software features in iMovie 08 to help. Oh like, how about Chapters that you can set the time on, or a few more video effects, or a second audio track. How about an audio fade at the end of the movie – now THERE’S something you don’t think of every day. Right now it’s set at 1 second and you can’t change that. Even for beginners this is gonna suck.
This is an entry level piece of software in features, that is replacing a mid range piece of software in features. The fact that people don’t get this baffles me. The fact that Apple didn’t see this coming, or did see it coming and decided to FSCK their current user base for new sales seriously pisses me off.
Branded,
• AppleWorks had a price. Fool.
• New versions of Mac OS X always had a price. Fool.
• New versions of iLife always had a price. Fool.
• Jobs said that when he wasn’t with Apple. Fool.
• If you think the “The PC wars are over,’ you’re an even bigger fool. Which would make you the most immense fool ever. Fool.
name withheld…,
319 reviews of iLife 08 at the Apple Store online is a pitifully small percentage of users. Knee-jerkers, obviously.
You need to re-read SteveJack’s take – he’s 100% right.
iMovie is SUPPOSED to be an entry-level app. It wasn’t. Now it is. It has been fixed.
Apple deserves to be applauded.
iMovie ’06 HD will work with Leopard, guaranteed.
That will give you more time to finally wise up and realize that iMovie ’08 is indeed the revelation and triumph SJ has described it to be.
Just amazed with all those ‘long time mac-using fan-base whiners’.
It’s not you ‘fan/user base’ that brings in the money or market-share. It’s the crowd that starts to buy Apple products right now. If you are one of those long-time users with so much knowledge, then you’ve voided your rights on complaining about a program become more mainstream.
Wake up and just face it. Mainstream has, in Apple’s perspective, always been: more easy to use and with less bells and whistles to confuse.
And exactly that is what Apple is doing and SteveJack is defending right here.
What’s the point anyway. Apple is more than generous with continued support for ’06 HD…
Using Apple products since 2003, became a zealot talking to other people about it, converted quite some people, but can’t agree more on SteveJack’s comment.
iMovie was not for J6P…period…
I’m sick of reviewers saying if you don’t like iMovie 8 then just buy Final Cut Express. Most consumers are not going to spend $299 on a piece of software to make home movies. If you’re using it for a small business perhaps. Even David Pogue was using iMovie 6 for his videos.
The exclusion of chapters markers is a deal breaker for me. If they put them back, I might consider using iMovie 8. I had heard something about using GarageBand to add chapter markers. If Apple expects me to export my iMovie into GarageBand, then export that into iDVD; I’d hardly call that a speedier workflow. Apple… just put back all the missing features in an updater. Do NOT wait until iLife 09. Half your audience will be missing.
@Final Cut Pro Pro
thanks for taking the time to read and respond.
“319 reviews of iLife 08 at the Apple Store online is a pitifully small percentage of users. Knee-jerkers, obviously.” – and the 90+ positive reviews of iWork 08 are not? Come on, it’s representative of the larger group. What… you think there is an organized group of upset iMovie 06 users typing away on their macs astroturfing the Apple Store online? Get real. If this isn’t a big enough sample for you. Check out the iMovie discussion boards. There are thousands of posts there. Just hang there for awhile during the day and see what get’s posted, what get’s deleted, and how fast.
_____
“You need to re-read SteveJack’s take – he’s 100% right.” – at your suggestion I did, and I disagree.
_____
“iMovie is SUPPOSED to be an entry-level app. It wasn’t. Now it is. It has been fixed.” – Frankly – this argument is silly. And is my car SUPPOSED to be just about getting from point A to point B? What it’s supposed to be and what it’s become are two completely different things. Your argument smacks of the original MDN post on this subject that basically said, “you’ll eat what is put in front of you, and like it.” – well no, I don’t like it. I have grown used to a certain feature set, and to sell me less and call it an upgrade, or to suggest that all of the previous versions were too feature rich, or that I should be happy to have gotten what I did for $15 and change is specious at best.
________
“Apple deserves to be applauded.” – as a loyal Apple customer since 1982, a mac owner since 84, and stockholder who stuck it out through the nightmare of Scully, again I disagree. Screwing over your current customers to find new ones is never good business. Apple dropped the ball on this and should be told so.
________
“iMovie ’06 HD will work with Leopard, guaranteed.” – BEST news I’ve heard so far. How do you know this as fact?
________
“That will give you more time to finally wise up and realize that iMovie ’08 is indeed the revelation and triumph SJ has described it to be.” – iMovie 08 is a great piece of software to go after new customers. I disagree that – 06 was difficult. My 74 year old mom learned it in a weekend. Let’s leave the hyperbole of “revelation and triumph” out and call it what it is. A feature poor, entry level video compositing program that works for the lowest common denominator of customer. Apple made this change either knowing that it would upset the user base of customers it has and didn’t care if it did, or didn’t do it’s homework and didn’t come up with a plan to minimize this cluster fsck.
iMovie 08 is way ahead of iMovie 06.
Far better organisation, far quicker interaction, no rendering and non-destructive editing – what’s not to like?
Instead of complaining about iMovie 08, why don’t you give it a try?
If you use iMovie 08 for editing and GarageBand for the sound edit – you can make very pro stuff super quickly.
It looks like many long-time iMovie users are really angered by the omission of the timeline. But who said the timeline is the best way to edit movies? Even though I’ve yet to get my hands on iMovie ’08, I love it allready. It’s a great and nessecary paradigm shift. I discovered something similar in music production, when I picked up a copy of Ableton’s Live 6.0. There’s a timeline, but the main creative concept is very much like iMovie. Small blocks containing audio or midi, which are very easy to mix and match quickly. I believe we’ll se a lot more development away from the timeline in both audio and video in the coming years.
What makes me laugh are all those people that believe that iMovie was a difficult program with an ever increasing learning curve. As part of the iLife suite, I find it difficult to believe that anyone would be able to work with Garage Band and/or iWeb, but yet find iMovie a daunting piece of software. And yes, I realize that not everyone uses Garage Band and iWeb, but the point is that they are both part of the iLife Suite and, IMHO, have much more of a learning curve than iMovie.
Apple is catering to the UTube idiots ( sorry, that is redundant), Proof : Steve’s dismissal of the future use/importance of DVD’s as a means of sharing your movies.
I’m getting sick of all these iMovie HD commentards. Please spare us the drama queen routine. SteveJack has it totally right.
You don’t need to love everything about iMovie ’08 but most you haters act like Apple drop kicked your dog into freeway traffic. Don’t try to convince me or anyway else that’s the way you feel either because we frankly don’t give a damn about your hurt feelings. Maybe if the lot of you acted like reasonable adults instead of screaming spoiled rotten children, the rest of us would feel more sympathetic but most of us don’t appreciate virulent foaming-at-the-mouth commentards.
If iMovie is such a deal-breaker, shut up and vote with your wallet. That will allow the rest of us to enjoy iLife ’08 in peace, with or without iMovie. Go and organize a boycott or whatever but stop trying to hold the rest of us back by insisting iMovie should be Final Cut Express. Either you really are video gods who need a program like FCP or you are just elitist snobs for insisting anyone who likes iMovie ’08 must be brainwashed morons.
I’m SOOOOOO glad Apple refuses to apologize because many of you were spewing the hate when Apple moved to OS X, when Steve Jobs secured a truce with Microsoft to insure continued development of Mac Office (“BOOOO!”), when they introduced the iPod (“this means Apple is abandoning the Mac!”), when they switched to Intel, when they dropped “Computer” from their name etc. Apple would be long dead and buried if it had kowtowed to you “thinking different” hate-every-new-change-because-it-lowers-me-to-the-level-of-peasant-boobs.
Just go back to Windows and pretend life is better over there because Microsoft is always about more of the same. Apple truly doesn’t need customers like you, and the only reason is that the lot of you insist like it’s a holy right to act so destructive, close-minded and anti-constructive.
iMovie 08 is super quick. We moved certain works from FinalCut Pro to iMovie 08 just for the cheer speed of editing. (ie low budget editing like weddings and stuff.) Apple is heading to the right direction. Did you buy more AAPL? There is a good window of oppotunity now.
Apple’s old message to PC users: Come over to Apple and see how software can actually be both powerful and simple to use.
Apple’s new message to PC users: Nevermind, we’ll just make crappy software, and you’ll feel right at home.
It’s not a question of not being able to learn iMovie ’06, I rarely have video footage to edit and I just can’t be bothered to spend the time learning and using an app to trim a few bits out, combine others together and add a quick soundtrack on video that I don’t plan to archive or watch hundreds of times. Most of the stuff I have I want to watch in a reasonable form a few times whilst it’s still relevant to me. Anything I want to keep I can spend the time to do in iMovie ’06 but basically I typically couldn’t be bothered. iMovie is quick and easy – that’s what suits my workflow for my limited video requirements.
Geez…so much energy for essentially a $20 application (either iMovie 06 or 08). Prior users…you still have iMovie 06, so why the fuss.
I’m glad for iMovie 08. I don’t care about the bells and whistles. I just want a basic video editor. Thanks Apple for making things simple again. MDN is right on the money.
I work in video editing too, and we are moving from Final Cut to iMovie 08. It’s amazing with it’s non-render, realtime, non-destructive, super-fast interaction. It’s also wicked how easy it is to move from projects from iMovie 08 to Final Cut for finishing up.
iMovie 08 is the best thing that has happened in video editing in 10 years. My colleagues and I are completely blown away.
I find it baffling that some dislike iMovie 08.
I don’t use either program but whenever something like this happens, I basically don’t listen for a few months. There is always resistance to change and, yes, there are always people who will blindly worship products out of brand loyalty, so you have to let all that get filtered out before you can start taking anyone seriously.
Ask a hundred people on the street their favourite movie of all time and often what you’ll get is their favourite movie this year because they’re still excited about it.
Objectivity requires distance.
“we used to complain when Avid moved one button or changed an icon”
Always loved Avid… a little piece of Windows on a Mac. Avid’s GUI is better known as an “inyerface.” Glad to see that Apple isn’t afraid to stir things up. I’ve seen beginning editors labor over how many frames to hold or cut a shot, and I’d tell them, “you edit with your eyes and your ears. Ignore the numbers.”
Steve Jack’s right. iMovie 08 is a great piece of software, unusual for some to use, but the right direction. And I’m really glad to see Apple ain’t excusing. And to see more folks that are pro-iMovie.
Funny to see how people become more rational once a balanced opinion is published… .
I still don’t get all the complaints. If you all love iMovie ’06 so much, why don’t you just keep using it? When a new version of a software program comes out the old version doesn’t just automatically stop working. Apple even took it one step further and made sure that the new iMovie didn’t even upgrade/overwrite the old one. If you don’t like ’08, just drag it to the trash and keep using your beloved ’06.
As for why the general response online seems to be negative, isn’t that ALWAYS the way? The unhappy are always more vocal than the satisfied…
I think that Apple has reposition iMovie ‘08. Is has less abilities but you have to look to the iLife suite has a global thing. If you want to adjust the movie soundtrack or add bookmarks to your movie you have to jump to GarageBand now. And when done jump again to iDVD. This is a new way with more steps but it gives you more than iLife’ 06.
I’ve published on my blog an extensive opinion about this new iMovie ‘08 issues. If you want to know more about my thoughts go to here:
http://armpauloferreira.blogspot.com/
I don’t get the explaination SJ gave during the iLife ’08 presentation. An Apple engineer couldn’t do a short film with iMovie 06 ? What SJ demonstrated (well, rather like ‘showed’) with iMovie 08 can be achieved easily with iMovie 06, should you spend a little time to learn how to use it – no more (or hardly) than you need to learn iMovie 08.
The positive enhancements of iMovie 08 are the movie library and the fact that you don’t remove the video sequences when you drag and drop them in your video project. These don’t quite justify the removal of previous functions iMovie users were used to.
I also don’t quite agree with SJ when he says online video is the future and DVD are passé. Why not say we get rid off paper and printers because online publications are the future ? Users have a need for both online and DVD viewing.
“if what Apple is stating were true there would not have been such a strong negative reaction to the less than “improved” iMovie ’08.”
No, if what Apple said is true,there SHOULD have been a strong negative reaction. Did you get the point of SteveJacks commentary?
Reading for comprehension my friend. Try it sometime.
SteveJack has it exactly right! I’ve used any version of iMovie maybe 2x, and I’ve been using Macs since before OS X. iMovie 08 looks to be exactly what I need and wanted all along. Apple knows it’s intended market and how to cater to me, the CONSUMER. iMovie 06 was just too much like a pro app to be truly easy to use. It was powerful, and with many options, but easy? NO WAY!
BS. Don’t try to tell me what I want and don’t want MDN.
I have no problem learning iMovie ’08. What I’m not happy about is all of the editing features that have been removed. I’m perfectly happy keeping iMovie ’06 as long as Apple tells me that they will continue to support and develop it.
iMovie, too much like a pro app ? I wish.
Having used iMovie06, FCE and FCP I always thought that the feature coverage and upgrade path was disconnected and that not enough attention was paid to real beginners.
iMovie 08 addresses that by repositioning, now I think we can expect a similar repositioning of both FCE and FCP. Maybe a price reduction of FCE and the continuation of more professional options arriving in FCP.
As for all the naysayers, if you don’t like it for the very low cost it is, then write your own. In the past when people have sincerely believed that a manufacturer is not doing it right they do it themselves. If such people are correct then their products as alternatives are successful. Many a major corporation was begun in response to user disatisfaction.
On the other hand, if you don’t like it then don’t use it. No-one says you have to upgrade. Just because BMW brings out a later version of the car you drive does not mean you have to rush off and get it, in fact anyone who does without a clear need to do so is a fool and like all such is soon parted from their readies.
It really annoys me the way so many people feel that just because software is so intangible the users should be entitled to free or almost free upgrades for life. As if the fact it is not some piece of conventionally manufactured goods like a TV set somehow makes it easier. I have developed over 21 applications of the years and I can assure you that the maintenance and upgrade experience has real pain in it. No way I’ll give it away and if you expect something for nothing you can naff off.
Get a life people. More than 50% of purchasers in an Apple store are new to the platform. iMovie08 is an easier introduction to movie editing than iMovie06 then when more capabilities become important an upgrade path to FCE or its replacement makes more sense. In the mean time if existing users prefer using iMovie06 that is okay, just keep using it.
Mark me down as one of the folks irritated about feature loss. I honestly don’t see how removing the ability to edit your audio track(s) helps this product become more user-friendly. Also, they remove effects but keep transitions, which are just as easy to apply as effects?
They’ve effectively sucked us in for years by providing an essentially free application that allows us to produce high-quality video. They’ve always touted this and as a former Apple retail employee, I’ve always touted it. It was one of my biggest deal makers when it came to selling macs. Now we have an app that essentially lets you slap together some video clips that may or may not have some standard transitions and an audio track that’s either musical or native. Unless someone can show me otherwise, I’m not seeing any way to actually place the audio in my movie.
I’m a self-professed Apple idiot. I’ve spent an obscene amount of money on Apple product in the past 4 years. I’m always willing to plunk down some cash for something new and innovative. Now I’m going to have to eventually plunk down a sizable amount of cash for FCE once support for iMovie 6 dies or I see some great new innovation in FCE that should have probably been in iMovie 9. For crying out loud, does Apple really need to boost another revenue stream that bad?
@Branded
Please buy a Windows machine if you are so unhappy.
Then you can pay MicroSoft’s upgrade prices.
Holy shit, there are some scary folks on this post. One cross word about Apple and you go apeshit. Bashing 25 year loyal Apple users like they are garbage just because they disagree with the approach Apple has taken on iMovie. Let me ask you, will you toss your grandparents out the back of the bus because they’re old and not bringing much income in anymore?
This groupthink about iMovie reminds me of the Lord of the Flies. You’re like the band of savages led by Jack and Roger that take over the island. Bizarre anti-social behavior and you seem to be proud of it.
Now I understand how extreme elements in the Christian and Muslim worlds have been so successful in recruiting new zombie converts.
I think I’ll go look for a news site where adults post. I know, it will be hard to find.
Can you move back and forth from iMovie 08 too iMovie 06 HD ? Or is this like a Microsoft upgrade, you can’t go back?
iMovie 06 HD installer says I must have 08 installed, so I am making a guess here and saying I can have both.
MW=which, like which is it 08 only, or both?
@Jump
I don’t think MDN were trying to tell you “what you want and don’t want”. Anyway, you unfortunately sound like the sort of person who doesn’t listen (and maybe doesn’t read in this case).
You’ve got iMovie ’06 for the time being. It’s probably unrealistic to expect Apple to maintain and develop (i) Final Cut Pro & Express, (ii) iMovie ’08 and (iii) iMovie ’06. Of course you could always buy Final Cut Express for $299 to future proof yourself and then you could have another good rant about the $220 hike from iLife at $79.
As a shareholder, I like to see Apple trying to meet the market demands as they perceive them while also maximising their profits from established products.
John
+++++
I LOVE the new iMovie, who has time to make a movie the old way.
Time will bring updates to 08 version
I found myself using Magic Movie all the time because I did not want to spend time on it.
The new iMovie is what it should have always been. I think it takes cojones though to remove features from an app. I do believe though that I’ll use iMovie more now. I think Apple nailed it, unfortunately they left the former iMovie users out in the cold.
I can throw home movies together so much faster now I am willing to take the trade off of ease of use, quickness and a few effects and transitions. I never used them anyway.
“I think Apple nailed it, unfortunately they left the former iMovie users out in the cold.”
How? By providing iMovie ’06 for free download and also preserving it on their hard drives during the iMovie ’08 install?
Apple has gone out of their way to accommodate closed-minded fools who can’t spend 15-minutes with a new app in order to realize that familiar doesn’t mean better.
“Apple has shown the world the future and some people whine that they can’t sepia tone it.” – SteveJack
Brilliant writing! Absolutely brilliant! And dead on target.
“While I’m disappointed that some iMovie users aren’t embracing change as readily as I believe Mac users should, I can empathize. You used to know how iMovie worked and now you don’t. The temptation to just give up and scream is very real, but change is hard and, in this case, it’s worth it. This whole brouhaha reminds me so much of the move from Mac OS 9 to Mac OS X!”
===========================================
Mr. “I’m really the complete staff here at MDN with two first names”,
Yours is one of the most moronic and condescending paragraphs I have ever seen.
“The temptation to just give up and scream is very real”.
You know, that’s just precious. Yes, we’re all just going to drop down on our little petticoats and have a good cry because Apple introduced a redesigned iMovie. We’ve been using Macs for 20 years, but we can’t handle change. How are we ever going to figure out this new iMovie? Oh woe is me!
Listen Billy Jack, I have transitioned through OS 6, OS 7, OS 8, OS 9 and OS X on the Mac platform, not to mentions 3.1, 95, 98, NT, and XP on the Windows side (for work). I have used countless software titles though even more iterations of that software, and you have the unmitigated gall to accuse me and many others of being averse to change. Let me ask you: Are you trying to drive away readership? Because I’m tired of your veiled insults, and I am ready to take my page hits and eyeballs elsewhere.
For the record, I absolutely couldn’t wait to migrate to the OS X platform, but I disagree with the direction Apple has taken on iMovie. I don’t believe iMovie 08 is all bad, but it’s not all good either.
Just found something interesting. If you go into the iMovie ’08 preferences there’s a advanced mode you can turn on. It doesn’t change much. It justs adds some buttons. But this may be a sign of things to come becuase I’ve never seen Apple add an advance mode in any of their apps before.
Live long and prosper,
Steve Jack – iMovie Apologist – changing spin as quickly as his socks …
iMovie ’08 is not ready for prime-time – it lacks features readily available in the previous iMovie period.
As much as you try to paint yourself as a credible voice, you come off as a lemming who will accept whatever Apple shoves down your throat.
When the other iLife Apps get too close to the pro-apps we’ll see the same thing happen.
If you enjoy being patronised and spoken to like an idiot you’ll love the new Apple attitude. Think dumber!
I guess your movies are all called “My Great Movie” titles #1 – #100.
OK, so I picked up iLife ’08 about 3 hours ago, just to see what all of the fuss was about. I’ve been an iMovie user since the beginning, and just as a test I took some raw footage and made movies in both iMovie ’06 and iMovie ’08, same length, same fx and transitions, same titles. It took me less than half the time to make the same movie in iMovie ’08 as it did in iMovie ’06. I think iMovie is fabulous for what it does, and will go a long way to make the Mac more interesting to those who wouldn’t have otherwise given it a thought. To those who are whining about about iMovie ’08 so-called shortcomings; please get over yourselves. ’06 is still around, so you miss absolutely nothing. The complainers actually sound like they’re somehow suffering from Digital Penis Envy, because the fact is that iMovie ’08 actually does many things a lot better than iMovie ’06, especially previewing footage, which is IMHO the single most important part of any video app, consumer or pro. Apple is definately going in the right direction with ’08, and SteveJack is 100% right in his assessment.
IF a new product was so sorely needed, then they should have given it a new name, not iMovie 08. Everyone seeing that name would assume that 08 is an upgrade to the existing 06 product. THAT IS A LOGICAL ASSUMPTION.
By the way, I am sure MDN loved the Emperor’s new clothes!
I think it’s very interesting that for this article, MDN refused to publish their own take but the take of one of its contributors. Beddy beddy intedesting….
I don’t care if Apple includes the new iMovie, so long as I can still download iMovie HD 6 off of the website. As long as that’s still offered… I’m happy.
I’m curious. I have a question for all the iMovie ’08 haters here in the MDN comments. Do you hate iMovie ’08 becuase of:
1. The new way of making movies were you use iMovie to organize your videos instead of the Finder or iPhoto?
2. The lack of effects, themes and a few other minor things?
3. Or both?
Live long and prosper,
we know its you — you still suck
it was never your name just your thoughts and that damn link you posted for months
Spock said: “I’m curious. I have a question for all the iMovie ’08 haters here in the MDN comments. Do you hate iMovie ’08 becuase of:
1. The new way of making movies were you use iMovie to organize your videos instead of the Finder or iPhoto?
2. The lack of effects, themes and a few other minor things?
3. Or both?
Live long and prosper,”
==================================
I for one am not an iMovie 08 hater, I am just disappointed in the lack of basic features.
Question 1 – That sounds great to me. I welcome new ways of organizing video content.
Question 2 – Yes, this is where disappointment sets in. Lack of timeline, themes, special effects including third party plug-ins, limited audio editing capability.
On another post, you pointed out there is an advanced mode available in iMovie 08. I think that’s the best compromise available: Launch iMovie 08 in novice mode, but have an advanced mode that gives basic editing capabilities back to users. The best of both worlds.
I believe having two different iMovies floating around on OS X is a kludgy solution at best.
P.S. Spock, I appreciate your mature and civil tone. It’s a rare thing here on MDN.
solid,
“Apple has shown the world the future and some people whine that they can’t sepia tone it.”
Just to throw my $.02 in here.
I am an animator and have edited numerous shows using FCP and Avid Media Composer, however when it came to my home videos I rarely edited them. Why? Because for home video even the old iMovie was a pain. I want quick and easy for most of my home stuff. I don’t need to spend 3 hours cutting selects for my kids birthday video.
’08 lets everyone cut together something very quickly with little to no hassle… THAT is the point of ’08.
I have already used it to make 3 videos where previously I would have made none so in my book that is a win for Apple.
As I’ve suggested, if iMovie ’08 were called iVideo, and released alongside iMovie HD (06) as a new iLife application, it would have prevented this whole fiasco. Even if support for iMovie HD was ultimately ended as iVideo matured and took over it’s functions.
What Apple has done is the same concept, only less elegantly, and that’s what’s gotten the userbase in an uproar.
I look forward to the day when ’08 matches ’06 in terms of functionality. If anything good is going to come of this, hopefully it is that Apple will focus on upgrading ’08 a little faster than they would have otherwise.
I really wish morons like SteveJack-off would stop suggesting Final Cut Express to us longtime iMovie lovers. The two programs are not even close. I am an “advanced” iMovie HD user, and I tried to upgrade to FCE and hated it. iMovie HD is a near-perfect combination of ease and power (and, yes, you smug b**tards, I will keep using it).
Besides, FCE costs $300. I’m not saying it’s a bad deal, but it’s a bad deal if you don’t need or want a $300 video editing package.
The thing that amazes me most about this fiasco, is that these same idiots that are arrogantly suggesting “you are just spoiled, go out and pay $300 for FCE and like it” are the same people that rage and howl when Microsoft does anything like this (e.g. cripple cheaper versions of Windows).
The double standard is embarrassing to other Mac users.
what was that quote?
“iMovie was meant to be an editing application for beginning editors and camcorder users who wanted to quickly edit footage into shorter, more interesting finished products. iMovie ’08 finally achieves that vision.”
Exactly!!!
If iMovie is meant for beginners, then it will never be updated with the features of iMovie 06. After all, that’s why they cut those features in the first place, to make it easier to use, right? If Apple does intend on including those features in the future, then that means they put out a lousy piece of software before it was ready, a very un-Apple thing to do. In either case, Apple fans have a right to be upset, and the MDN spin is just pathetic. They don’t complain about iTunes being too complex for a free program do they?
No FCE for me,
Apple did not “cripple” iMovie.
iMovie ’08 is a massive advance.
As SteveJack so clearly suggested, maybe Apple can rework iMovie ’06 HD, rename it, and find a place for it in their lineup between iMovie and Final Cut Express where it belongs.
“You don’t need to love everything about iMovie ’08 but most you haters act like Apple drop kicked your dog into freeway traffic. “
there is the real problem. people can talk about time lines and pro apps and paradigm shifts all they want, there are only 2 factors that matter here.
1. feature loss. even if i edit sound in GB, and i am fine with that, too many features i enjoy disappeared. i hope they come back in updates or a future release.
2. overreaction. yes, i do like the 06 features more, but i like the 08 style more. there are things to discuss, yes, but what are most of these people freaking out about?
“we used to get software free!”
“Apple is like teh new microsoft!”
“where is my free pony!”
i swear i wish i knew what color the sky is where some of you live, cause you are NOT in the real world……
what was that other quote?
“This whole brouhaha reminds me so much of the move from Mac OS 9 to Mac OS X!”
Yes, in 2007, there are probably still a few “Don’t need no OS X, OS 9 is fine and dandy!!” grumbling holdouts,
but you can’t fight the future, so embrace it.
With Apple, it’s great!
Gotta Love the Truth: Sorry, I can’t stand sepia tone.
yeah, the whining people are probably the same ones who, complain the have a suck ass job, but never get an education to move forward and get a better job. It happens ALL the time.
Apple employee: “Can I assist you?”
Schmuck: ” Yes, I use imovie ’06, and I want to be a better editor”
Apple employee: “Well you can upgrade to Final Cut Express, and we have extensive training material, even classes!”
Schmuck: “Haha, no, I actually don’t want to invest in better software or training, I simply want to BE better”
Apple employee: (dumbfounded look) “Huh? . . . SECURITY!!!”
I’m I the only one who feels that iDVD is approching “End of Life” status. iMovie doesn’t have the send to iDVD button anymore. Apple’s obvisouly going to replace it with Web Gallery and iWeb. You would host it on Web Gallery and create a password protected site about the movies with some slideshows and just send the link to all your friends and family. Thats how I’m doing it.
Live long and prosper,
“Things are going well at the moment, but Apple is dangerously out of touch with its base, no matter their spin.”
I have to disagree. I think they are very much in touch. There were probably three types of iMovie folks, the average user who was overwhelmed, the intermediate user that moved up to FCE/FCP, and the intermediates that actually use the program. My guess is that Apple did not make this move until after doing lots of customer studies. They likely discovered two things, people that knew iMovie were moving up, and people that didn’t were intimidated. The result would be a rapidly shrinking user base and a demand for something easier. iMovie ’08 is just that.
If you take the time to watch the training videos, you will likely find it is a brilliant program. Add to that, the ability to publish to YouTube and you have a winner. As usual, Apple has added innovative ideas for working with media that should end up in the Pro Apps!
New application (nothing reflecting its predecessor) should have a new name…
<b>abcMovie</i>
I haven’t tried iMovie ’08 yet, but did try the old version years ago and have since moved onto FCP. I can certainly understand the consternation of long time iMovie users over the features that have been lost (but of course they haven’t really been lost because you presumably still have iMovie 06, or can get it), but could you ratchet down the heat of your rhetoric?
The accusation that Apple is “sticking it” to their customers for Greed’s sake is the charge I find most ludicrous. Which do you think would cost Apple more to accomplish: move a couple of FC Express features over to iMovie to beef it up, or write and entirely new piece of software from the ground up. Please… Apple developed the new iM08 because they thought they had a new and better way to approach the task. Obviously Apple has invested more to bring out this new software than to amend the old iMovie.
I’ve been editing in FC for about 5 years, and though I know iMovie’s new limitations will frustrate me in some areas, I like what I see in many respects. It may need some maturation, but I think Apple is on to something with this new methodology. I for one am very excited to have a new method for dealing with basic family home movies that I just want to edit down and archive without making a big production. I don’t need a timeline for that sort of work.
(oops!)
abcMovie
I think Apple should have 1) told people this was coming and 2) assured them that iMovie6 will work on Leopard. If they had done these two things, the outcry would have been reduced immeasurably. That they didn’t feel the need to do this does reflect a growing sense of corporate hubris, I’m afraid.
Maybe we need to add Apple to our prayer lists.
Question: Editing video from digital cameras in iMovie ’07 requires transcoding with MPEG Streamclip (free from Apple) to separate the audio from the video. Does iMovie ’08 require transcoding?
The tutorial video implies that digital camera videos work seamlessly from iPhoto.
Thanks.
Why not have the option of both 06 and 08 functions in one app with 08 being the “simple finder” option of iMovie.
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?path=Mac/10.4/en/mh1085.html
Fine! Just give me a time line option and I’ll stop bitching about it.
Oh yeah, and make it work on my duel 1.0 G4
Final Cut Express is THE greatest software bargain in the history of computing. I’m using it professionally along with the (included) Soundtrack and Live Type to deliver in store billboards for a 140 store chain. Compare to apps costing 5 to 10 or more times the price…
Is it really necessary for the proponents of both sides of this argument, Apple supporters almost all of them, to insult each other just because they “think different”? And just think what it says about YOU when you describe someone else’s honest opinion as a whine.
I believe the rethink of the whole editing interface and file management in ’08 is fantastic and useful, and competitors will be scrabbling to copy it. I also think that the loss of essential amateur features like reasonable audio controls and frame accurate editing (to name but a few) is a symptom of the program being rushed out before it was finished. I look forward to these features being restored to the program sooner rather than later. At the moment it’s a great, easy to use video scrapbooking program. Hopefully it will soon become a great amateur video editing program that will put the ’06 version in the shade.
Apple has made iMovie ’08 so ‘idiot proof’ that only ‘idiots’ will use it.
Apple wants to screw all the non-idiots into buying Final Cut.
guess i’ll throw my 2 cents in for what it’s worth…
i haven’t tried imovie 08 yet – i don’t have a computer fast enough to use it. (low income college student = no g5 or better for me). from what i understand, it’s far simpler to figure out. i could see where existing imovie 06 users would be upset (i had no problem figuring out 06 myself, but that’s just me), but i get the feeling that people who aren’t very good with/ are intimidated by computers (my 58 year old mom is a great example) would feel more comfortable with a program in which there are less options and features to wade through.
imovie always seemed like the most complex program in ilife. even though i can use it with no problem, it does seem like, from the perspective of more technophobic people, it would be a bit difficult to use. one could make the argument that if someone just sat down and took the time to learn how to use it, they’d be fine. but many people don’t like the idea of “learning” computers. many mac users trumpet the simplicity of the platform as a major reason why macs are better, and imovie 08 would seem to compliment that level of simplicity better than 06 did. that said, i’d probably personally stick with 06, because i’m already familiar with it and have no problem working with it – i can see where all the angry people are coming from, but i’m not personally angry about it – imovie 06 didn’t stop being awesome or stop working when 08 came out, and 08 opens up video editing to a broader audience. i can see both sides of the argument here.
apologies for any spelling and grammar mistakes- i’m only on my first cup of coffee.
Question: To edit video from digital cameras in iMovie ’07, the video needs to be transcoded with MPEG Streamclip (free from Apple) to separate the audio and video. Does iMovie ’08 address this issue?
Thanks.
Apple is obviously scared. They saw the Windows Vista: Windows Movie Maker and got scared and tried to make a competing product. As evidence from the Apple fanbase confirm, Apple was wrong once again. Apple just can’t copy Windows like it used to.
Your potential. Our passion.™
Well… as usual, SJ is “skating to where the puck is going,” while all you whiners are–once again–skating to where it’s already been.
iMovie is where the puck is GOING, and has been going for some time now.
Our friend Steve has done what he’s been doing for years–simplifying. Think iPod, iMac, iPhone, even OS X. Steve Hates Buttons, and whether you think that’s a good approach or not, it certainly has worked. Yes, once again, by removing clutter, Steve & Co. are making a very safe bet: that their understanding of the User, and marketplace, is still right on the money.
Not only was the move to iMovie ’08 utterly predictable in light of their Apple’s recent successes (and SJ’s muse). iMovie ’08 is merely a reflection of the YouTube megatrend, which is now signaling the end of the MTV era. iMovie ’08 had to happen for Apple to retain dominance in this crucial space.
Since SJ’s return, Apple makes people want their stuff by making it as powerful as possible within the context of simplicity. And the target audience isn’t (yet) geeks and gamers; they’re after mom-n-pops, college kids, people who don’t have time (or the desire) to “study” their new computer before getting good use (and fun) out of it.
David (above) suggested Apple fix the iMovie mistake before half their user base is gone. Don’t be a ninny, David. Come back in two years, and you’ll see that iMovie has spread to a much wider audience than it enjoyed previously. Just like the iPod and the iMac, iMovie will have attracted millions of new Apple fans. So even if the current base of iMovie users may be cut in half, no one will miss them, least of all AAPL shareholders.
Besides, all those feeling left out now will move on sooner or later: they’ll either switch to Final Cut (and be much happier, BTW), or they’ll keep tinkering with iMovie ’06 until it breathes it’s last. Or, they can sit quietly while their fifth-grader makes the movies for them.
Yes…and if you check back on things, you will find that Apple (like most corporations) seldom, if ever, apologizes for any misstep/mistake they make. They can’t do it.
Remember the bruhaha over non-recordable CD drives in the iMac? And the Lisa?
iMovieHD wasn’t available for download from the get go of this little debacle, and the fact that it was made available afterwards at all is a perfect indicator that Apple realized they made a misstep. The speed with which it became available is a very good indicator that they had a suspicion iMovie 08 might not be positively received and wanted to be prepared for a negative response.
Case closed.
One look at the Superior Windows Vista: Windows Movie Maker and Apple got scared, trying to update their iMovie to compete. Unfortunately this time, Apple just couldn’t imitate Microsoft well enough this time.
Your potential. Our passion.™
Looks like MDN go their butts handed to them last week and needed Steve Jack to come to the rescue. Nice try, but I ain’t buying it.
What Apple should do is allow anyone who purchases iLife08 (or gets it on a new Mac) to get Final Cut Express at the upgrade Price:-)
Please, please,…
Less than 2 years ago, when Mr. Jobs introduced iMovie HD with a LOT of fanfare and the (then) Sony CEO on stage, he catergorically stated it was to be the year of the HD camcoder. iMovie HD was the way forward. Yeah right.
Now we are to accept a product that feels at best “unfinished” like the first (and second) release of iWork. If a year in technology represents so much change as to make Mr. Jobs words take a 180º, then why are so many Aple products laggin behind their PC counterparts? iMovie ’08 is a huge step backwards.
And another thing…
New users/switchers get iLife 08 for free on their Macs. Retail boxed versions of iLife exist for one purpose. To be sold to existing Mac users of those apps (including, and probably in particular, iMovie).
You don’t sell people what YOU think they want, you sell them what THEY want. It doesn’t matter if some people think iMovie 08 is the greatest thing since sliced bread if retail sales of iLife boxed copies don’t fly off the shelves. The existing user base of iMovie is much, much larger than new users will be for quite a long time.
Like many computer users, many existing Mac users wait for reviews before upgrading to new versions of software. Negative reviews and problems tend to make them hold off. Anyone waiting for a “new and improved” version of iMovie may be disappointed.
“New” they most certainly got, but “improved” is clearly nothing more than a matter of opinion.
Until the new iMovie regains the features that were dropped (and I suspect it will over time) it remain unusable for me. And that (the usability) is no opinion, but fact.
MDN, Steve Jack and Steve Jobs have one thing in common:
Amazing ARROGANCE!
There is no justification for violating extraordinarily faithful customers with this ridiculous defense of APPLE’S BIGGEST BLUNDER.
Try all you want – you can’t change the reality. iMovie 08 is a toy, FCE is tedious, complicated, and burdened with too many time consuming protocols – it won’t do what iMovie HD does easier and, oftentimes, better.
iMovie HD is a standout program that Apple has inexplicably condemned to a death that will occur with the launch of Leopard and the next Quicktime update.
Nothwithstanding Jack’s insight(?), the question remains unanswered: what was Apple thinking?
No Choice for HDD Camcorders which use MPEG2
iMovie 06 and Final Cut Express dont support it but iMovie 08 does.
No timeline based editing for the MPEG2 folks
@nobodi “New users/switchers get iLife 08 for free on their Macs.”
Well, we’re suposed to get it.
Just bought my daughter a new macbook last week. It came loaded with iLife 06. After we got it all set up and updated we discovered the problem. Called apple support, they couldn’t send us a copy of iLife 08. Had to return the machine, get a new one, activate and register it in the store so I could check to see that it has the most recent versions of all of the software.
It seems apple is clearing out old stock of macbooks without any plan to update them with new software.
I was thinking about getting one of the iMacs for video editing, with iMovie, I would need to take out a loan, it’s ok for SteveJack he is sorted with what ever he wants. I’m re-thinking about getting the Mac I might just switch back to PC’s, cheeper and more software if this is how Apple and it’s pathetic apologists treat it’s customers.
Hey “habituallinestepper” whats this audio/music inability to edit, are you talking about.
You just click and drag it to the back of the movie picture, and it’s represented as a green boarder on where that song is played. Then you edit the song, so you can adjust it with two verticle bars to indicate when and where the song starts and finishes. This is much better that the previous iMovie 06, where you need to crop numerous times to get it right.
And if anything, audio tracks are best editted in either quicktime or garageband, not in iMovie.
I’ve played with it, it’s faster learning from here than from iMovie 06 and it works.
If you need to do more a
People want a lot of things, like cheap, bargain basement personal computers, for example. But they don’t expect to get them from Apple Inc. There was a time when this company used to concentrate on quality, and not so much on catering to the lowest common denominator.
MW: “Wrong.” ‘Nuff said.
The new iMovie is a huge step backwards on features. It should never have been called iMovie or lined up as a replacement of iMovie 06.
Both apps are targetted at different users. They should co-exist.
If the classic iMovie market is dying, can someone please point me to some actual facts that support this argument? I don’t see any numbers on the table nor do I believe the market is dying.
Apple should not be caring about the market. It should be giving iMovie 06 users an improved version of the app.
RE:”Apple should not be caring about the market. It should be giving iMovie 06 users an improved version of the app.”
I hope you are not leaning toward a career in business…
SteveJack had a number of useful things to say. Too bad he was writing in a language many of us won’t (can’t?) read. At least … not all the way through. More fool, they.
He said iMovie has been returned to its roots. True statement, unwanted fact. We didn’t want it dumbed down to its roots. But for a $15 app?
He said it was putting people off. True, but not those of us who were stretching its capabilities. Still … true.
He said there was room for an iMovie Pro version, an iMovie’08 with the features returned. I said the same thing … yesterday?
Not everyone was happy with the iMovie-that-was. I hadn’t used it in a year (dropped my camcorder … oops) but recall it fondly. Having been a videographer, myself, with fewer creds that SJ, and smaller needs, I was happy with the feature set, though I could see room to improve. I don’t consider this version an improvement, but I spent my $99 (Family Pack) for GarageBand-with-extras, not for iMovie-with-extras. My son gets iPhoto-with-extras out of it (for $20).
iMovie (and GarageBand, and iPhoto) was designed to introduce consumers to the wonderfullness of Apple’s Pro Apps – FCE/FCP, Logic, Aperture. To act as limited-feature “demos”, if you will. I’m sure they’ve done their job, but iMovie had gotten out ahead of itself. Maybe it’s time to introduce “Pro” versions of each … at $79 per.
No .sig this (MW=)time.
Dave
I don’t use iMovie, but the argument about the old iMovie is better because it supports a lot more plugins and themes is not very convincing. Every time there is a paradigm shift, you can’t expect the new thing to be so much superior than the old thing without giving the new one time to grow. It took 6 versions of iMovie to be the way it was and people expect the new version to beat it completely in one shot. It reminds me the days of OS 9 to OS X shift when OS X was dog slow and didn’t have OS 9’s standard features. No one can argue OS 9 is better than OS X now. The shift happens because the old thing was close to the ceiling to grow. Give the new iMovie some time to improve.
“Change is hard because people overestimate the value of what they have—and underestimate the value of what they may gain by giving that up.”
— James Belasco and Ralph Stayer
Flight of the Buffalo (1994)
I was going to buy the new iLIFE 08, but since iMovie is the app I use the most, I am going to pass.
I am sure I am not the only loyal iLIFE fan who will stop upgrading at the 07 version.
I hate it when companies cater to the lowest common denominator!
Do they think these morons are going to use iMOVIE any more now that it has been dumbed down for them? I think not!
All this will do is screw the people with a brain that actually took the time to learn the previous version!
Everyone be patient, the timeline will make its way back into the product either with an update or a later release. Apple hit upon a really cool way to view video on the fly and assemble movies much quicker, which required a rewrite of the application from the ground up. Becuase they are trying to stay within the confines of a yearly ilife release they put this out, with some features added adn some taken away.
But it will be further refined as time goes on, just as OS X was, just as pages was, just as iMovie was before. And this is also why you can still download imovie 06 for free.
Seriously, if they stopped production of imovie 06 and refused to support it, I could see the griping having merit. Yet you’re not losing iMovie6. Rather Apple is moving from one way to do movies to another, which presumably is much better but which still has to be refined.
For those who prefer the features of imovie 06 is there a reason why you couldn]t assemble the movie really quickly in imovie08, then open the movie back in imovie06 to refine the sound and add the effects you want using the timeline? (or go to garageband to refine the sound instead).
Imovie08 seems much better for adding pieces to the movie to begin with, and imovie06 seems better at refining the movie once its been setup. Until imovie09 has the capablities of both (and Im assuming they will simply add another mode called the timeline mode which displays your movie on a timeline in addition to the way its displayed currenty which you’ll be able to toggle between) why not use the strenghts of both to achieve your results?
There is no need for griping.Noone is losing anything here. you now have two products that you can use instead of one, but there’s no reason why you can’t forgo ever using imovie08 at all.
Sorry Apple, MDN… Dead wrong..
iMovie 08 looks like it was born in the bowels of Microsoft… Guess what? We’re Mac users! If we wanted CRAPPY Microsoft software, we’d buy crappy Dells loaded with Microsoft’s crap… We didn’t. We don’t. We’re Mac users for a reason.. iLife used to be part of that..
I’ve never been more disappointed in an Apple product in over 20 years.
Nice try MDN/SteveJack. Maybe if you had written your original post with that level of thoughtfulness you wouldn’t have born as much of the brunt of this outrage. Since your original post was a steaming load of crap however, and since the position you take is still fundamentally the same (‘Jobs is always right’), you still see the same ratio of pro/con comments here.
The people have spoken – and they don’t like the new iMovie.
The flaw in Apple’s rational, and yours, as to why this will all blow over is that it fails to recognize the argument for what it is. NO ONE is dissing the new way of dealing with the videos (except for the lack of a timeline, or even the option of one – that’s a dealbreaker). EVERYONE appreciates how much faster iMovie 08 is now.
The problem is the hacking off of almost all the useful features.
The problem is not being able to utilize your plug-ins – both free and paid for – anymore.
The problem is not being able to import old iMovie projects very well, if at all.
The problem is that IF all of these issues are ever remedied, it looks like Apple’s pre-existing customers will have to pay for ANOTHER new version (iMovie 09 or 10), when they paid for them all once already.
The problem is having to use TWO pieces of software now, when before you only had to use ONE, to simply work with your video.
The last one illustrates how, no matter how simple 08 now is to use, you lose most – maybe all – of that efficiency advantage by having to figure out which version you can get away with using for any given project. And if you guess wrong, then all your work may wind up needing to be redone, depending on the circumstances.
All of the above could have been avoided. All Apple needed to do was just not jump the gun, and give 08 time to be debugged (I consider not being able to import projects or use pre-existing plugins from previous software with the same name to be bugs), and bring it up to the same feature level as the previous version of the software. Then they simply could have introduced it, say, in time for the Christmas buying season … or (as the name already implies) in the first quarter of 2008 … and literally EVERYBODY WOULD HAVE BEEN HAPPY!
Fair. Logical. Efficient. Profitable. In other words, the kind of solution I’m beginning to think must have been outlawed in this country some time ago when I wasn’t looking.
Apple wasn’t wrong to change iMovie. They were wrong in how they did it. And you – SteveJack/MDN are wrong for not lending your voice to those of us – longtime Apple supporters all – who are simply trying to get them to correct the error.
Wise up.
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The iPhone and iMovie 08 detractors have a lot in common. In neither case has Apple made a crappy product in its own right, but they’ve made something that is not in line with the expectations of a certain portion of the user base. Or put another way, they haven’t properly managed expectations.
Just as the iPhone was never meant to be a “tiny Mac” that can run Nisus Writer or whatever other crazy desktop app you might think it should, iMovie 08 is not an upgrade or improvement upon iMovie 06. It’s a totally new way of editing video, just as the iPhone is a totally new class of device. The problem is that some people want each to behave like an improved or shrunken version of X product that they are already familiar with.
Sorry guys, but if you want Apple to continue to be an innovation leader, this stuff has to happen from time to time. While I personally find it exciting, I can understand the disappointment from those who were looking for a souped-up iMovie 06. But if you are honest the best complaint you can make is that Apple has end-of-lifed a product you really liked, in favor of something with a different approach. All this whining about a “disaster” or a “dumbing down” reveals a lack of long-term thinking.
Just a question… since it’s about “feature loss” that people are unhappy with, What features have been lost?
@Ryan: “The iPhone and iMovie 08 detractors have a lot in common…”
NO THEY DO NOT. This has nothing to do with wanting iMovie to do something it was never designed to do, or isn’t best suited to do. That’s the iPhone critics, and they are in a very easily identified minority.
With iMovie 08, it is ALL about having it do what iMovie has always done before, going back to version 1.0. Period.
Your thinking in 2 dimensions my friend. This isn’t that kind of problem at all.
“With iMovie 08, it is ALL about having it do what iMovie has always done before, going back to version 1.0. Period.” should read:
“With iMovie 08, it is ALL about having it do what iMovie has always done before, going back to version 1.0. Period. and those people are in the vast majority.”
O67
Great post Odyssey67.
Apple should just add an Advanced button to the 08 interface and put all the 06 features that aren’t in 08 in this Advanced interface. Then everyone would be happy.
Apple has shown the world the future and some people whine that they can’t sepia tone it.
I disagree. Instead, I would say:
Apple’s fans around the world have spoken, and some people whine that they can’t edit their opinion out.
Anyone that ignores the opinion of the masses (and the majority opinion is obviously negative) does that at their own peril.
MND – perfectly stated, Steve Jack.
Thanks… I have been using iMovie 3, (in fact I still have iMovie 3 on my Powerbook G3) and use iMovie 6 on my G5.
Yes the change is radical… but I love it.
Besides, I am no pro… just a novice with editing.
APPLE has got it right.
j
No one has brought up the most obvious reason why iMovie ’08 is no improvement. Time.
My son was editing movies in 2nd grade with iMovie 2 and uses it all the time (now in high school). iMovie (old) is a simple paradigm. iMovie ’08 may be a simpler paradigm. It doesn’t matter.
Those that have been claiming ’08 is superior seem to fall into a crowd that didn’t want to spend time on a movie. Unless ’08 has changed something drastic, it still takes time to import a movie. It still takes time to DECIDE what clips are best.
My guess is that those that are exhalting ’08 will still not edit video for any sustained period. A soccer dad has to deal with 1 hour of jittery video. It takes 10 minutes to put together a video after 2-3 hours of input and review. They still won’t edit video. It takes energy and creativity to create a movie. You have to WANT to show it to someone.
My guess is that more casual videos will be made but the old iMovie users will grow into the new iMovie users. The new crop of beginners will be begging for the features of the old iMovie after 1 or 2 videos. If a timeline appears in iMovie’08 it will be interesting how many people use the new view for most of their work.
By the way, I tried to learn Final Cut Express. When it wasn’t obvious how to do a simple cross-fade, I gave up. Old iMovie is a simple pardigm no matter what people think of the new one.
I can’t believe that they took out THEMES. OMG.
That is such a deal breaker. I am going to sell my mac and get a Dell. Apple does not care about the users anymore, it is all about the Benjamins.
They should be giving away all of their software and upgrades for free and while they are at, give away those overpriced Macs too.
What were they thinking when they thought that maybe iMovie6 was a little too challenging for the basic home user? These people should just learn how to use the software. It’s not like they have anything better to do than sit around learning software.
MND word: written
“Most of these comments were written by people with a stick up their butts, and not in a good way.”
Hurr-umph
“That is such a deal breaker. I am going to sell my mac and get a Dell. Apple does not care about the users anymore, it is all about the Benjamins.”
Oh please, don’t give us this preposterous crap. Don’t pretend we’re going to believe this posturing.
Go ahead, sell your Mac and get a Dell – you don’t even get iMovie ’06 on it and YEAH THAT WILL MAKE YOUR MOVIE EDITING LIFE EVEN BETTER!!!
Go ahead, do it!
Or just STFU and stop trying to convince the 95% of us who love the new iMovie ’08 that we’re all idiots for like things better. Go back to your hole because no matter how much you berate us, it’s not going to change one damn thing.
Just go get that Dell and starting whining over at the Dell forums of how crappy Movie Maker can’t measure up to iMovie ’04. Please, we’re begging all your iMovie HD commentards.
More lame excuses for iMovie ’08 from MDN. Sure you don’t secretly work for Microsoft?
“Schoeben says iMovie has more advanced features than many on the message boards realize. “
So simple to use that you need to spend your nights to do the most basic things (such as adjusting transitions lenghts).
C’mon.. It’s just a piece of crap software…
C’mon.. It’s just a piece of crap software…
I wonder how many of these kind of responses are from people who actually use imovies(any version).
@stevew said:
“RE:”Apple should not be caring about the market. It should be giving iMovie 06 users an improved version of the app.”
I hope you are not leaning toward a career in business…”
The market (per se) is not important. The users are important because THEY are your market.
An example. If ‘the market’ (let’s say PCs) was important for Apple it would be making commercial software for the Windows platform. Apple caters to its users. If it only cared for market numbers then they would kill off the mac. Apple doesn’t do this because it doesn’t give a hoot about the generic PC industry.
Apple doesn’t give a hoot about where the industry is going nor what the majority of people might want to do in the future in a given industry. It should just be catering to its users needs and where they want to go.
How many people actively wrote to Apple saying iMovie 06 was overkill? They should have made iMovie 06 even easier to use if they thought not enough people were using it.
How many people use GarageBand to its full extent? Are we going to get a dumbed down version of that app in iLife 09?
iMovie 06 is the new AppleWorks. It will be left untouched and killed off.
“‘The consumer video-editing industry is dying,’ says Rob Schoeben, Apple’s vice president of applications and product marketing. ‘It got crushed by digital photography,'” Graham reports.”
Uhhhh, so YouTube, Google Video, Dailymotion, and many of the sites on this LIST are dying???
NOT.
I doubt people will be using Imovie 8 to make award winning commercial films.
You COULD do that with iMovie 6.
Explain why you think that is better for people.
The 8 elementary and high schools I do tech for have extensive video editing lesson plans using iMovie 6 HD because it had all the features necessary to teach introductory movie editing to kids. Now that is all gone. So is a big, big, big chunk of a $50,000 Mac budget. Where is it going? The the free video editing software that comes with our new cameras. On Windows only. Apple just blew itself out of the media lab education market. I have never seen education sales drop so fast.
Tracking stats for BitTorrent I see that illegal file sharing of Final Cut (both forms) has gone through the roof. Literally, a 90-fold increase.
Maybe that will send a message to Apple.
Hi, I’m an Apple user. I can’t think for myself, I want Steve Jobs and Steve Jack to decide what I need. Whatever they say is good enough for me.
Lets take the Corvette and remove the V8 and put in a 4 cylinder
and call it a new breed of sport car. the public will love it Ya Ya Ya !
Iv herd people say Itunes is too complicated, lets simplify it shall we, all we need to use it is a play button and an import CD button. That should work, now everyone will want to use it Ya Ya Ya!
This is fun anyone else want to try?
Dee De DEE Dee De DEE
Rob Schoeben is a fucking moron! probably worked for Microsoft.
I have used iMovie since version 1. I watched each version get a bit more sophisticated and didn’t feel the need to upgrade after version 5 which was the first HD version. I know this because I still have it on my 12 inch powerbook that I bought just short of 2 years ago. I actually felt that even version 5 was a bit bloated with an over abundance of effects. However, it was still generally fairly easy to use and I have edited a handful of family type things on it. I never bothered to upgrade to version 6 because it seems as though the video editing features going from 5 to 6 had not changed much and I did not care about the podcast “feature”. On the other hand, trying to teach my mother (a fairly computer savvy person) how to use it just to throw together something she could give to her choir members on a DVD was a bit more of a challenge. For what she wanted to do, this new version might be better suited. Having just gotten my new iMac a few days ago, I have not had time to mess around with the applicatoin yet.
I think that for Steve Jobs to say that “nobody uses DVDs anymore” was rather presumtuous (sp?), but I would object less to the new version on principal if I knew for sure that I could move projects back and forth between 08 and 06. Unfortunately, that doesn’t seem to be the case. Perhaps that will change in the near future. Three final thoughts (for the moment anyway).
1) One of the things that made using iMovie fairly cool was the fact that if you decided to make the move to FCE or FCP, you could for the most part, do so rather easily because even with the learning curve, the vocabulary for all 3 applications was very similiar. That is no longer the case.
2) For all those people who say people like me should switch to FCE if I need to be able to do the things I have been doing in iMovie, please tell me how I will be able to afford to buy FCE. I’m a full time Grad student with very little regular income and very little time to make movies but when I do, I like to have just a few of the options I have had since version 1 of the application.
3) FCE has not been updated in quite some time other than to become a universal binary assuming it was not written that way from the start. Who knows what will happen when it is updated….
You have to ask yourself – is it that Apple didn’t have the talent to make the new iMovie as simple as the fisherman wanted yet with the features the old one had? Couldn’t they manage it? If they’d pulled that off we’d all be happy. Apple’s attitude on this isn’t doing it any favours. If you take the steering wheel out of a car it doesn’t make it easier to drive.
Consider this: whenever a new version of the proper iMovie came out, did we hear cries of THIS IS TERRIBLE, IT’S FAR TOO COMPLICATED TO USE…? No we didn’t.
iMovie 8 is looking like a disaster for education. I feel marooned by Apple. Most of our mac’s are too old to run iMovie 8 , (although less than 2 yrs old). We can’t afford to replace them, can’t afford FC, (too difficult for beginners anyway) and will forced to runn iMovie 6/HD as a legacy app. Unless there is considerable return of features as there is just not enough creative control in iMovie 8 we’ll be forced over the next few years to retire them as video editing suites and evaluate where to go.
While iMovie 8 has some great features, as an educational app it’s laid waste by iMovie 6. I can only hope that iMovie 8 evolves into something more useful.
The education market serves to introduce thousands (millions) of potential new users to mac’s. Apple would be aware that the disappointment /outrage evident in the forums is but the tip of the iceberg. They should be concerned, not telling us to suck it in.
MDN — What are you guys smoking?
You’re attempting to say that users, if they want to produce a quality movie, need to go out and buy a $300+ movie editing application in order to produce something of mediocre quality. However, sometimes, it’s extremely easy forget that Apple has some very strong competition out there, called the PC.
On the PC, users can produce virtually the same type of things for a whole lot less money than the Mac. Look at Adobe’s Premier Elements for around $100 dollars. It simply blows away ANYTHING that the Mac can do with the older iMovie ’06. It comes with themes, flexible titles, multiple movie windows displaying on the screen at once, you can convert a variety of photos into an animation, etc. You can even include Flash animations directly into the video, etc. You can improve your photos, make corrections to them, and much more — yet, you say that the Mac can only do a “portion” of this for 300+????
This does not make sense… However, you are effective convincing me that switching has been a mistake that needs corrected. I’ve already decided not to buy the new generation Mac due to iLife.
Apple — if you want to keep your customer base — please re-evaluate your crazy ideas with iLife. Rehab might be needed.
As a longtime video editor, I have to agree 100% with MDN’s take.
I also teach new users how to use Final Cut Pro. It is actually quite easy to learn, and what people ought to be using if they want to make videos.
iMovie wasn’t simple enough and wasn’t pro enough – it was failing in 2 directions.
This new iMovie looks quite exciting as a simple tool that is quite powerful at stringing together footage easily and quickly.
Note those two words: easily and quickly. Most people don’t want to take their video clips and spend 8 hours making a compilation tape. They want to spend 5 minutes and then show their friends.
If you want anything more advanced because you’re “serious” about editing, go for Final Cut Express or Final Cut Pro. They are very affordable for what they do.
I think Apple has the right idea. It sucks people got used to iMovie, but they really need to try Final Cut Express or Pro. It’s a way better application and much more powerful.
I believe that Apple has made a serious mistake eliminating features from Imovie 08. I was planning to switch to a Mac in November after OSX 10.5 was released. I planned to switch for two reasons:
1. Clean design – eliminate a lot of cables.
2. Imovie – I currently do quite a bit of video editing for my church on my Dell 4600 using Pinnacle Studio 9.35. Pinnacle Studio’s interface essentially is a knock off of the old imovie 6. Very easy to use. However, Pinnacle is buggy and unreliable!
Imovie 6 is about 80% as powerful as Pinnacle Studio. Unfortunately, I wrongly assumed that the next edition of Imovie would be more powerful than Imovie 6. Therefore, I have been waiting for over six months for the new Imovie to be released before I purchased a new Imac extreme edition. Now I see that one of the major reasons for purchasing a new Imac has been removed.
Final Cut Express to me is a difficult and frustrating product to use. (No automatic segmentation of imported video clips, no storyboard mode.) If I am stuck with Final Cut Express I might as well keep my PC and buy Sony Vegas. (It does not have a storyboard mode but at least it does segment video clips).
I sincerely hope that Apple reconsiders Imovie 08 and releases a true competitor to Pinnacle Studio or Sony Vegas. As of right now the PC has the lead in mid level video editors when it comes to ease of use. This should not be!
I don’t think that Apple understands what a selling point Imovie was. I have had several clients buy Macs in the last year and almost all of them wanted to play with Imovie. These clients are not sophisticated users, they figured out Imovie in a matter of minutes and have been producing nice movies now for several months. They have been eagerly awaiting the new Imovie because they were looking for more features. Sadly they will be disappointed. Some may be forced to run Pinnacle Studio within bootcamp. Not exactly what I or they had in mind!
Just opened up iMovie 08 to see what’s different. I have to agree that I like the themes, animation, effects, 2 audio editing lines, timeline much better in iMovie 06. To me, timeline is the most important. And before, you can make really cool movies really quickly.
However, I do like how they made it like a finder for movies and easily import clips, scan clips etc.. in 08. If only they incorporated everything from before into 08 as well.
Guess I will be sticking with 06 for now. But iPhoto 08 rocks.
Quote:
“Things are going well at the moment, but Apple is dangerously out of touch with its base, no matter their spin.”
This does get a bit tiring. I’m sure Apple is far more “in touch with their base” than *anybody* here. 50 (or 100, or 200, or whatever) people who are complaining about iMovie doth not a “base” make.
SteveJack,
I have given iMovie ’08 a chance. I’ve already put together two full videos with it. And quite frankly, I’m still not happy with it. Don’t get me wrong; there are a lot of things I do like about it. Selecting clips and putting them together is really easy; the video library is very handy; titles and transitions are very nice and don’t take any time to render like in the old version; and the YouTube integration is also a nice touch. But there was no need for Apple to remove so many of the old features that made previous versions of iMovie so cool, like video effects, themes, and of course, the timeline view.
IMO, there was nothing wrong with the old version. It was easy enough for newbies to use, but had a few extra features for more advanced users. This new version of iMovie is really inflexible compared to the old one. For instance: there are no settings that allow you to fade in or out the volume of the soundtrack. You can’t strip the audio out of a clip. If you want to add a song to the background, you can’t even control where in the movie it starts or ends, and you can’t just put in part of the song. You are forced to put in the song in its entirety, and it must begin at the beginning of your movie, and it must fade out when your movie ends before the song does. And what about the special effects? I cannot for the life of me understand why Apple had to take those out. What’s so complicated about adding a special effect to a clip? That was one of the things that made the old iMovie so much fun.
While it’s great for Apple to start appealing to novices who have never done video editing before, it is a huge mistake for them to abandon their loyal longtime users. It’s like a slap in the face to say, “Hey, thanks for using our software for so long, but we don’t give a flip about you anymore. We’re making this software for a whole new audience, so get over it.” What they should have done was create a new version that gave you the best of both worlds: an “easy” mode for beginners, and an “advanced” mode for those who want more control over their editing. Apple has always been about inspiring creativity, and this new version doesn’t give you nearly as much freedom to be creative.
And don’t tell me that if I don’t like iMovie that I should buy Final Cut Express. I’ve tried that program and it is way too complicated for me. Not to mention it costs $300 bucks. If Apple agrees to lower the price significantly I may be willing to learn it, but $300 is a little too steep when I can buy similar programs for the PC for less than half that price.
Overall I applaud Apple for trying to make this program easier for new users, but they made a huge blunder by abandoning their core user base for the sake of their new users. They should have found a way to incorporate the best of both worlds. iMovie ’08 has a lot of promise, but I really hope that future versions will bring back features like special effects and introduce an advanced editing mode for people who want to get a little more out of the video editing experience.
Saying iMovie ’08 is better than iMovie ’06 and iMovie users better adapt or else, is like saying iMovie ‘6 is better than Final Cut Express and FCE users would better go iMovie or else be left in the dust. Of course, that’s not happening in the FCE camp at all, but that’s just what has happened in the iMovie one.
iMovie ’08 is not an iMovie-line product at all. It uses a very different paradigm. It shouldn’t use the same name, as it is misleading: it isn’t even capable of opening older iMovie projects. It is another fine product. It is a poor replacement.
The real problem here is the very backstabbing to iMovie users (which do use a perfectly valid paradigm, mind you: it’s not as if FCPro is going timeline-less any day soon, isn’t it? So stop sepia-toning us already), the de-feature-… no, the killing of an already mature tool which would have benefitted from the injection of 08’s technologies as an addition.
We thought these Apple-of-old antics, corraling users into Apple technologies and then letting them die, were gone (but then the last Shake thing ought to have made us know better). One, for once, would like to have some stability.
You call us luddites. Well, what we certainly are not is blind groupies. We are fed up with every new consumer electronics tech becoming a quality and features degradation that uses at the very least two to five years to reach parity with the old, whatever the convenience gains are. Apple has been a constant example of that.
Frankly, iMovie ’08 is proof that Apple is congenitally incapable of caring for its customers: we have to fit in Apple’s Stalinist worldview or else (Leopard’s Transparent menu, indeed). And MDN is a very sad MacCheka, at that.
(Apple justifying iMovie ’08 to schools that have invested in pre-’08 iMovie-centric courses should be a fun thing to hear)
Schools shouldn’t be teaching iMovie except in Continuing Ed classes which are usually free or $15 tops.
If a school is actually providing editing courses, they should be with a minimum of Final Cut Express.
I find it interesting that the ones you hear PRAISING the glories of the new iMovie write later posts stating that they ONLY use Final Cut Pro.
I purchased Final Cut Express — AND HATED IT!! I thought I had bought a Microsoft program.
I wonder how Final Cut Pro people would feel if their program had been replaced by the new iMovie ’08? We could make stupid statements, they are are, such as:
“Oh, it’s so much better, it’s easier to use and there’s only 9 transition that you can use! Obviously, it’s serious lack of abilities to produce anything that looks good is a wonderful upgrade that all users must buy!”
“You can’t strip the audio out of a clip. If you want to add a song to the background, you can’t even control where in the movie it starts or ends, and you can’t just put in part of the song. You are forced to put in the song in its entirety, and it must begin at the beginning of your movie, and it must fade out when your movie ends before the song does.”
Oh yes you can!
1. you can drag the green bar which represents your music, to which ever frame you have
2. in the small box in the green bar, select that, and you get two bars… play around with them
As for fading… no idea… but it should be in there.
If you still can’t get the music to start at a later point… just add a music track that has no sound!
I really appreciate the new iMovie08. I didn’t use the previous iMovies at all because I found the experience extremely frustrating. I began video editing about 8yrs ago at a non-profit with FCP and everything has been coloured by that wonderful application. Ten minutes into the included tutorial and there was no looking back or need to read any documentation to begin to be productive. Actually, we created two projects in iMovie while waiting for FCP to be delivered. When FCP arrived it was a revelation.
FC was new to me then, and iMovie is new to me now, and I love it. It’s a good intuitive Apple app. I did not feel that way about iMovie.
It is precisely the timeline of the previous iMovies that I find most frustrating. I don’t like the timeline “moving and changing” – clips expanding to fill timeline and automatically removing gaps, etc. I like a clip to stay where I put it and to be able to see its relation to other clips, gaps and all. I couldn’t get into iMovie before at all. It was like trying to do a simple page layout on Word instead of Pages.
I can understand the disappointment of “advanced iMovie users” – especially those who have taken the time to make iMovie work for them. I know buying FCE isn’t a great prospect; and I know it’s not a great consolation, but FCE is well worth its price. I don’t believe you will have to put in the same effort to be as proficient in it as you were in the previous iMovie.
iMovie now makes a great library/preview/archiving tool for all my footage – plus a quick tool for a storyline. I am going to get all my footage back out now. Having iMovie08 and FC is a bit like having iPhoto (great organiser and slideshow maker with some editing tools) and Photoshop (though FC is easier). Not to be smug at all, but before iMovie08 it was more like having Photoshop and something like MS PaintShop (my analogy to old iMovie) — you can use if you have to, but why bother?
I much prefer a paradigm shift (no timeline for example) to having something that is not quite there and less intuitive than it ought to be (old iMovie).
Cannot get iMove to work (3 hours) and spent 4 hours getting errors out of iphoto to retrieve my 8gb’s of sacred family photo’s. So this piece of pooh called iLife 08 belongs on Steve Job front door in a paper bag set alight and let him put it out. Karma is a funny thing, it is because of unconditional non objective journalism in the I.T sector and the too many fingers in too many pies that has resulted in Apple taking the eye off the ball on this one.
In response to Mr. (or Ms.) Earth to Glenn Earth to Glenn:
Thank you for showing me those tips. It took me a while to get your first tip to work. As for the second one, clicking on that box lets me trim down the clip, which is good, but it automatically fades in and out the music and doesn’t let you turn off the fading or speed it up or slow it down. You’re forced to accept it as it is.
“As for fading… no idea… but it should be in there.”
You’re right, it SHOULD be, but it’s NOT! If it is, I would like someone to show me how. If I have music in the background and then I have a video clip where someone is talking, and I want to fade down the volume while he’s speaking and then fade it back up when he’s done speaking, I can very easily do that in iMovie HD, but I can’t do that in this new iMovie. If you can figure out a way let me know.
The point I’m trying to make here is that iMovie ’08 has far more limitations than iMovie HD when it comes to editing. You don’t have nearly as much freedom to be creative. As I said in my previous post, this is very unlike Apple, who has always been about inspiring creativity. iMovie ’08 isn’t a bad app for what it is, but as a replacement for iMovie HD it’s really, really weak.
So, please tell me, can I take a movie project in ’06, bring it to ’08, and expect it to work? Can I take a project made in ’08 and bring it to ’06 and expect to work on it some more?