“Microsoft is not threatened by the announcement of Safari for Windows. Bill Gates isn’t pissed off that Apple has challenged him. Gates is worried about Firefox, not Safari, and even Firefox is just a minor annoyance or else Microsoft would be doing a better job of competing with it,” Robert X. Cringley writes for PBS.
“Beyond garnering some press, Safari for Windows is about AT&T. Steve Jobs is the best salesperson in the entire universe, but he doesn’t like to waste his time. That means that, having seduced AT&T (nee Cingular), Steve will try to sell them more and more stuff until they have bought everything he has. He will invent stuff specifically to sell to AT&T as long as it acts as a bridge to yet more stuff he wants to sell them,” Cringley writes.
“Steve wants AT&T to see him not just as the answer to their prayers, but as the answer to their EVERY prayer… Here is the complex package of goods Apple is trying to sell to AT&T: There’s the iPhone, of course, but there is also the Apple TV as a potential set-top box. Three hundred dollars for a set-top box? You have to be crazy! Not so crazy. Compared to not spending the kind of money Verizon is spending on fiber, Apple TVs are cheap even if AT&T gives them away,” Cringley writes.
“This move isn’t about taking down Microsoft, it isn’t about making Macintosh computers the dominant computing platform, it IS about performing a massive cashectomy on AT&T. But to Apple’s credit the company doesn’t want anyone to see this as theft, but rather as a technical triumph, simply because when AT&T’s exclusive is over in five years, Apple will want to do similar deals with all of AT&T’s competitors,” Cringley writes.
Much more in the full article here.
[Thanks to MacDailyNews Readers “Bob,” “LinuxGuy and Mac Prodigal Son,” and “Kevin G.” for the heads up.]
Cringely, while always entertaining, could well be quite wrong about the threat Safari poses to Microsoft. “With 18.6 million Safari users currently, according to Jobs’ in his WWDC Keynote, and some percentage of Windows Safari users to come, with the Mac user base growing nicely, plus all iPhone users on Safari, we’re looking at 100 million or more Safari users within 30 months… Steve Jobs, by releasing Safari to Windows, has laid the foundation for the next major computing platform which will be Web-based, built for Safari, mobile, and Apple’s.” – SteveJack, MacDailyNews, June 12, 2007. Full article here.
Is Safari is so important, why can’t Apple put in a sidebar? IE and Firefox have had them for years. Apple can’t do something similar?
Right now Safari is a second rate browser without a sidebar and it will remain that way. Who cares if it loads pages a few seconds sooner? I have so many tabs opened, I don’t care. I open all my pages before I start reading so I have no wait time.
Give us a sidebar, Apple. Do it now.
“massive cashectomy”
Reminds me of Papillon. Please wash those bills first.
Wow, now that’s some conspiratorial thinking. Seriously. Wow.
Cashectomy. Cute term. It seems to me that AT&T might have a differing opinion here.
Lets not forget that the iPhone requires Safari for it’s bookmarks, Ajax appz, blah, blah. Believe it or not, Windows users will buy the iPhone. Hence they need iTunes, Quicktime & Safari. This is a MUST MOVE for Apple.
Stop checking out my bikini and get back to work
BoShuda, what would the sidebar do? I personally don’t miss not having one. I’m not saying it doesn’t serve a purpose, I’m just honestly interested as to why it’s so important.
Sidebar?
Okay, while I agree that Safari needs some kind of streamlined bookmark management, there are alternatives to waiting around and grinding your teeth.
Buy a copy of Concierge. The sidebar and bookmark management is great. It’s only $10 and does a nice job of making browser History easily accessible.
http://www.bti.net/concierge/index.php
Cringley writes an awful lot to say nothing.
One of the great side benefits of dethroning Microsoft from its monopoly position would be the burial of dumb-asses like Cringely, Dvorak, Enderle, Scoble and Thurrott. Their connection to Windows reporting is the only possible explanation for their “industry analyst” status, and they take up way too much web commentary time and space.
Even with 100 million of copies of Safari in the next 30 months, that still equals less than 10% market-share for browsers… I don’t always agree with Cringely, but in this case, I think he’s right.. Safari is not much of a threat to MS.
@Julie:
Put on some clothes, wench.
as my little indian friend on that bingo game show would say…
noooooooo sidebar.
People, (trolls excluded
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Remember, its Steve Jobs we are talking about. There is a PLAN here. It may not be our plan but I think it started way back when he said that Microsoft was not the enemy. He had a plan.
As more and more people are exposed to the Apple approach, more and more get hooked. More and more move over. Maybe not now, maybe not tommorow, but soon and forever after.
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Its a slow stepping plan. One sneaky step at a time. If you want to clobber a giant, you do not stand in front of him and scream. You sneak up from behind and when the time is right. BAMB.
When you think iPhone, think Safari, Google apps, ease of use, security, everywhere, easy of use, everywhere, uniform approach, easy to use and learn, . . . . . e v e r y w h e r e!!!!
One step at a time.
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en – ne, sometimes I get them mixed up.
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MDN word, stay. as in stay tuned for more and more great news.
I spend… too much time in a web browser, all day, every week day. But I stopped using bookmarks years ago. Typing what I’m after into the Google search box or the URL line is, for me, much faster than using bookmarks. I do have a handful of them in my bookmarks toolbar, but I often forget to use them because I just type them in. The browser fills in the “http://www.” automatically, and chances are I’ve been there already and the rest gets filled in for me.
So, I guess I just don’t understand why people need bookmarks.
Q. What made Bell/AT&T so great back in the day?
A. R&D and the products it produced.
If AT&T still has an R&D department, I have not heard anything from them in YEARS. Apple gladly has become a contract R&D/innovation department. The difference is, at the end of the day, Apple owns the patents & technology, and will reap the recurring revenue for years to come.
Right now Safari is a second rate browser without a sidebar and it will remain that way.
This is a strange metric for browsers. “Fast standards-based HTML rendering? Bah. Does it have a sidebar?”
On a not-at-all-but-maybe-kinda-sorta related matter… What’s up with Apple’s website? It’s been screwy for weeks.
what a moron. sometimes these people that spew out ideas just to fill up space.
Even though it is not related to this post i thought it would be useful for safari users on windows. There is an article on securing safari on windows:
http://iprodreviews.blogspot.com/2007/06/securing-safari-how-to-run-apples-web.html
Want a Safari sidebar? Get the Safari Stand add on. Problem solved. Next Issue.
“Its a slow stepping plan. One sneaky step at a time. If you want to clobber a giant, you do not stand in front of him and scream. You sneak up from behind and when the time is right. BAMB.”
the funny thing that people miss, is that this stuff tends to run exponentially. the small user gains but big mind share that Apple worked so hard for over the last several years have built up to the point that a lot of people are now looking for an excuse to switch.
for some, the intel chips where that excuse. for others, the craptasticness that is vista. a few more will change for leopard. a few for the iPhone……
…but the real importance is that every one person that switches means a little more visibility. most people really are sheep. they won’t be adopters. they don’t want to be different. they want follow safely in others steps. every one person that heads over means a perceived safe path for a few more.
and if the iPhone is half the success it could be, that makes it that much easier to drum up interest for the next device. and that in turn increases interest in old devices, including Macs.
if Apple can have another hit with the iPhone, pod, Mac and TV sales all go up. if they can have one or two more hits after that…
in 6 years Apple could have 8-9 separate devices out, at minimum 50% market share. they could be a real giant.
interesting times.
@Prophet, “So, I guess I just don’t understand why people need bookmarks.”
——————————————-
Because some people can visit dozens if not hundreds of sites in a single day and not always remember the site’s URL, especially if directed there from another link.. That’s what bookmarks are for.
iApple + iGoogle = iHappy
Food for thought:
1. Eric Schmidt is on the Board of both Apple and Google
2. Al Gore is on the board of both Apple and Google
3. Safari is the ‘app’ gateway for the iPhone
4. Google Maps is the only initial “we love” back-end service dependent app on the iPhone
To be continued…
http://safarissues.blogspot.com/
I see this compared to what the iPod is to Apple:
Is Apple really concerned about an iPod competitor? Apple knows they have the vast majority of the portable mp3 market, so companies like Sandisk and Microsoft aren’t really that worried about. mApple knows they’ll continue to sell at a 75% market share, just as long as “iPod” is attached to the back cover of the product.
Now take Microsoft. They know they’ve got the vast majority of computer users out there, and probably will continue to have them for the foreseable future…despite what we Mac junkies think. The fact is…most people out there don’t think too much about their computer purchase. They’re used to Microsoft, so they’ll stick to it. You think Microsoft is too worried about a browser? Come on people.
Microsoft has a HUGE HUGE government contract, and ENORMOUS corporate and medical contracts…not to mention the countless small businesses that are tied to it’s software. Microsoft, as much as we loathe it, is staying put and will continue to be the big boy. Bill Gates knows that, Steve jobs knows that, and we all know that.
And just to throw in a completely off-topic thingy…the new Netscape Navigator beta on my MBP is REALLY fast, faster then Safari 3 beta in everyday browsing. You all should try it out.
There needs to be WEB optimized content, not BROWSER optimized content.
I want to use the browser I choose and have no problems accessing web pages
this is exactly why internet explorer optimized web pages suck. We need standards across the board, not for each browser.
It’s about the google search bar at the top of the browser window.
Everytime someone types in there Apple gets paid. Increase the number or browser users increases the money coming in from google through searches.
The fact that the iPhone will have web apps is so lame. Let’s see, I have to be connected to the internet, paying extra for service, just to add an item to my todo list.
So lame.
Who will use Safari on Windows? Think about all the poor slobs who have and love Macs at home but are forced to use windoze at work. That could create a huge number of ie7 switchers.
1. I wish MDN would stop calling Marc Stephens “Robert X. Cringley” as if there was a real human named “Robert X. Cringley”. And while Stephens tends to be a Macfanboy, he is NEVER RIGHT ABOUT ANYTHING!
2. Sidebar? Oh Christ. Everytime I encounter a browser with frickin’ sidebar the first thing I do is close it for wasting my screen real estate. Saft gives you a sidebar in Safari too, but again I never, ever use it. Sidebars are annoying and Jobs knows that.
100 million or more Safari users within 30 months!! You guys are dreaming.
I tried Safari on my XP box and it’s OK but definitely no replacement for Firefox.
This Cringley guy is so totally in outer space when it comes to analyzing the Mac and Apple in the real world. “…even Firefox is just a minor annoyance or else Microsoft would be doing a better job of competing with it,” Robert X. Cringley writes for PBS. Yeah, you would think that MS would do a better job at anything when faced with real competition – wouldn’t you. What really needs to be analyzed is why MS keeps on doing the same thing only worse, or copying other people’s ideas – only worse.
“…having seduced AT&T (nee Cingular), Steve will try to sell them more and more stuff until they have bought everything he has. He will invent stuff specifically to sell to AT&T as long as it acts as a bridge to yet more stuff he wants to sell them,” Cringley writes. This statement alone demonstrates as a matter of fact that Cringley doesn’t get anything Apple does period. Most speculation I see on the MDN website by posters has some merit, and by comparison Cringley’s remark is just complete nonsense, on the order of jibberish. Apple simply does not do business this way, Apple is not out to dump its inventions on others just to make a fast buck and get out – of all the real possibile strategies that Apple has going with AT&T, this does not fit Apple’s M.O. in any way shape or form.
Where does Cringley get this stuff anyway. Is he another MS consultant in PBS clothing? Over the years I’ve crossed professional paths with a couple of PBS/NPR ex employees that now work for MS (not including Cringley), AND, who act as consultants for MS to PBS and NPR, and it really makes me wonder – really. Now this is good fodder for a plausible conspiracy theory. Does PBS get a bunch of free stuff from MS everytime Cringley flaps his chops about Apple? Hmmmm? Wouldn’t that be special?
Side bars suck. Gimmie a sidebar and I’ll make sure it stays off. It’s worth nothing more than clutter.
beta 3 has an awesome ‘Inspect Element’ in the contextual menu that brings up the ‘Web Inspector’ (also in the debug menu). That is great for debugging your sites, for anyone who doesn’t know it’s there.
“The fact that the iPhone will have web apps is so lame. Let’s see, I have to be connected to the internet, paying extra for service, just to add an item to my todo list.
So lame.”
Is that for real? You can run ajax apps offline, that’d be real weak if you had to be on when using an app. Sounds like something Verizon would do though.
Spencer Corey Cotton asks, “what happened to Bell Labs, the people who made AT&T so great?”
The reconstituted AT&T sold Bell Labs to Lucent (another Baby Bell). They didn’t want to be “hindered” by the cost of all that R & D.
Russians don’t take a dump, son, without a plan.
It’s simple folks, sans “consipracy”:
1) Safari bookmarks on Mac or Win will sync with iPhone
2) Developers can build and test their stuff on either platform
Cringley is just looking for something to write about.
Who needs a sidebar I just put a folder on the bookmarks bar and in one click can open may sites each in its own tab. Way faster than looking at a list of bookmarks.
“Firefox is just a minor annoyance or else Microsoft would be doing a better job of competing with it”
By that logic, Microsoft should be doing a better job of competing with iTunes and the iPod.
He presumes that Microsoft is *capable* of doing a better job on IE, and we have no reason to believe that’s the case.
-jcr
MDN, you are being quite nice to the Cringe-meister!
Safari is mostly about providing a test platform for Windows developers to product iPhone apps.
The more that come out, the more the iPhone will dominate over the likes of Motorola, Nokia and Blackberry. It’s about hitting critical mass in the shortest period of time.
If not having a sidebar means I don’t have to worry about bloody pop ups, Spyware and my browsing history available to all and sundry, then LONG LIVE NO SIDEBARS!!!
Sidebar
and much more!!!
http://haoli.dnsalias.com/Saft/index.html
I really wish apple would put a throbbing N in Safari and get rid of that annoying menu bar. Then I wish they would hide the refresh button in a menu somewhere. That would make Safari so much better.
Why does everything Apple do needs to be PLAN. This is probably an end result of applet development discussion between Apple, Google and possibly ATT. They must expect that large percentage of iPhone users will be Windows users. Many of them will want to run same applets on iPhone and desktop computers. iPhone applet developers had two choices, make sure the applets they develop runs on both Safari and IE or make Safari available on Windows. Guess which option they chose. No conspiracy. No big plan to increase Mac market share. No demand from ATT. Just trying to solve a problem.
Most Windows users have web pages already maximized to fill the entire screen when they launch IE or FF. With all that empty space on the screen, I would think I needed a sidebar, too. There are still some people who think AOL IS the Internet and never bother to think that there’s space behind that screen.
I love the way Safari’s zoom button (green) only opens the page wide enough to accommodate the entire web page.
Anyone know if Safari Stand has been updated for Safari 3b ?? From what I know, Saft already has an updated version. I am loathe to re-install them, though, because it looks like the performance issues I had with Safari 2 were caused by them. I did like having Stand’s page thumbnail tabs on the side. They didn’t take up much space.
Cringely tries so hard to be obscure yet somehow insightful and ignores all the obvious angles, there seems to be some secret conspiracy every time to him.