Before Al Gore could get serious about running for the U.S. presidency again, Eric Pooley reports for TIME Magazine, “he would have to come to terms with the scars of 2000 and accept the possibility that he could lose again in 2008. That prospect may be too much to bear. ‘If he ran, there’s no question in my mind that he would be elected,’ says Steve Jobs. ‘But I think there’s a question in his mind, perhaps because the pain of the last election runs a lot deeper than he lets most of us see.'”
Pooley reports, “At Apple, where Jobs invited him to join the board in 2003, Gore patiently nudged the CEO to adopt a new Greener Apple program that will eliminate toxic chemicals from the company’s products by next year. Last summer, Gore led the committee that investigated an Apple scandal—the backdating of stock options in the years before Gore joined the board—and cleared Jobs of wrongdoing. Political people were surprised Gore took that controversial assignment. ‘That’s silly,’ he says.”
Full article here.
MacDailyNews Note: Apple CEO Steve Jobs, August 25, 2004, “Some people have said that I shouldn’t get involved politically because probably half our customers are Republicans – maybe a little less, maybe more Dell than ours. But I do point out that there are more Democrats than Mac users so I’m going to just stay away from all that political stuff…”
Gore / Clinton 2008
Steve, stick with making gadgets and great products. Al Gore is never going to be elected, even if he ran.
God forbid.
I officially give up the Mac and go back to where I belong: Windows 98.
Thank Gawd His Steveness has more business acumen than political savvy!
Well, this should open the floodgate of hate for sure. “to the left, left, to the right, right”
If Gore won, would we have Macs in the White House?
Here we go. Hold on to your “buts.”
I’m going to guess at least five pages of posts.
Any takers?
✔ [ Stewart • Colbert • ’08 ]
“Cry “Havoc”! And let slip the Dogs of War!!”
it is official. let the flaming… COMMENCE!!
I believe there is already a iMac in the White House, along with an iPod.
Stay out of politics.
Bad news, Hillary!
It´s going to be a cat fight. Gore (and wife Tipper) hates Hillary. Just think of the dirt he has on her!
Yeooooow-zaaa!
“If Gore won, would we have Macs in the White House?”
We already do, look:
scary
scary
scary
There are going to be a lot more “shuffles” in the current White House guaranteed.
> If Gore won, would we have Macs in the White House?
I believe President Bush is a Mac and iPod user.
I don’t think Al Gore can win. And I don’t think he wants the pressure of running for president and (if elected) being president.
I could never vote for a guy who “invented” the internet and can’t get global warming facts right in the opinion of even pro-GW scientists.. I don’t give a damn if he is on Apple’s board and has 3-30″ monitors.
Bill, now, would be a different matter, if he could run.
Just goes to show that Steve Jobs can be wrong. Thank god he doesn’t get to make those kind of decisions. Gore is a nimrod. Get ready for an attack on Iran. Long over due.
I will vote for whoever is willing to have the guts to support the Fair Tax Plan and lose a portion of their power and give it to the people.
Condoleeza would get the womans vote, the African American vote, and would have a better chance of getting the Hispanic vote. She could put some real brains behind the power with much fewer distractions and at least a little foreign policy experience. But who would decorate the White House? The article on her in Time was very impressive. We all forget that only the bad things are reported in the media, not the good.
You Gore bashers are hilarious – don’t you remember, Gore DID win in 2000, both the popular vote, and without chicanery in Florida, the electoral vote. The world would be a better place if we hadn’t had 6 years of Bush as president.
THREE 30″ MONITORS IN EVERY HOUSEHOLD!!
I”d vote for him but he’d have to stop chasing manbearpig.
Monkeypaws, I’ve got some bad news for you. Bush won in 2000.
No, I won in 2000.
This confirms that Steve Jobs has lost his mind. Apple stock tanks on news that “madman” in charge.
Steve wants to change the world. It’s a monumental mistake for him to align with the spend-crazy, morally challenged, whiny left while leading a technology/entertainment company. Rule of thumb: Whatever Hollywood says we should do politically, do the OPPOSITE!!! This world needs some tough love, not more programs and moral degradation. While I do not align with either party, my independent stance is staunchly conservative. Please Steve, stay out of politics. I think we can all agree on at least that.
Who knew MDN readers were such political experts?
The amount of accurate, precise, and noteworthy comments are shocking.
I can’t wait for the next 200 completely unbiased and factual comments. Away we go!
Here we go again… I’m officially sitting this one out.
“Get ready for an attack on Iran. Long over due.”
Yeah because that will certainly make them more favorable to the US.
Actually, Bush was appointed by a judge. But then, you knew that.
I have all the time in the world for Al Gore.
He is as honest as a politician can possibly be. He may have the bearing of a stiff, comic-book Desperate Dan, but he talks sense and is genuinely passionate about his cause – and what should be the cause of all humans – the environment. And it is an issue that is eventually going to come to us even if we try our best not to go to it.
America is a much, much poorer place today for having turned its back on him eight years ago by accepting “Clarence Thomas’s Revenge”.
I’ve never heard of even a whiff of scandal brush past him. No dark skeletons there. It is a sign of the man’s quality that the only thing critics can throw at him are innocuous comments he has made, such as the one about him inventing the Internet.
I suggest the only “damage” that comment has ever done is to force people into uncontrolled snickering. It has not led to anyone losing their life, like the more than 3,500 (and counting) Americans have in Iraq.
Ron Paul 2008!
Gore as president is more scary than Bush how?
I am surprised you moronic republicans are using Macintosh. You usually have your heads so far up your Fuhrer’s ass or watching Fox News, it is a wonder you took the time to think for yourselves for once in your sad little lives.
Oh man, this thread is going to be one long demonstration of what knee-jerk LOSERS the US has.
I feel sorry for your imploding nation, yanks.
Jobs is not aligning with anyone or meddling in politics. He simply stated that he thinks Gore could win. He did not state either that Gore should run or that he should win.
“Condoleeza would get the woman’s vote”
You could not be more wrong about that. On the surface, it would seem logical that women would cast their vote for female candidate, presumably with the expectation that a woman would best represent women’s interests. Unfortunately, women are not logical. Not only do women vote against their best interests, they do so for unfathomingly bizarre reasons. I firmly believe that, given a choice between male and female candidates, women simply won’t vote for a female candidate.
My female coworker told me she would not vote for H. Clinton if she won the nomination. Was it a policy disagreement? A question of Clinton’s character or maybe some political scandal she found distasteful? Nope. She thought Clinton was a “loud mouth”. I can’t understand what that means, but it was enough for my coworker to say she’d vote for the other party’s candidate if Clinton was on the ballot.
And I think that sort of thinking is typical with American women. Since women tend to vote with their “feelings”, and since women generally hate each other, I am convinced that Hillary cannot win. Not without the women’s vote – something she can never get no matter how fantastic a candidate she may be.
Obama is another great candidate. Unfortunately, men won’t vote for him because he not 100% white. Sigh.
Gore has a good chance to win… except for the fact that he rolled over like a dog swatted on the nose with a rolled up newspaper and gave up the election over GWB.
So there isn’t a very strong lineup on the Dems side. The good news is that the Repubs have it much worse with their candidates.
This one’s going 5 pages for sure.
My opinion is that if Gore ran, it’s lights out for Obama or Hillary, there now chasing VP spot on the ticket.
I don’t think he could win, but then again, I don’t see any current Republican who could beat him. It would certainly make for an interesting political season. He could win just because there are enough people who would say… “well crap, let’s give the other guy a chance.”
@ Monkeypaws… two things.
1 – there was enough “chicanery in Florida” on both sides of the isle to go around.
2 – two words for you – Electoral College – it’s in the Constitution, look it up. We are not a popular vote country and never have been. Ever.
@ Beryllium
Nice case of denial you got going there…
If Bush is so stupid to attack Iran you don’t have to worrie about the elections in 2008….they will be obsolete.
@ montex
Fsck you.
Die.
-c
Gore sat out the 2000 race. He acted like a big toad and wanted to give us Tipper when we didn’t want her. If he hadn’t put his tongue two feet down her throat on national TV he would now be president.
He’s not running this time. He’s way too fat, and his three 30″ monitors that contribute significantly to the problem of global warming are akin to Edwards’ $400 haircut.
I love it. All the Neo Cons that know how smart Jobs is can’t handle this. We all know Steve Jobs makes brilliant, intelligent decisions when it comes to how he runs his businesses. Why would you discount him on politics? Why? Because politics isn’t about logic for most people.
WOOHOO!!!! Politics on MDN! I’ll entertained today. YAY!
Montex: “Unfortunately, women are not logical.”
I love it!!! Let it begin!!!
You yanks are such IDIOTS!!!!
Of course, what else do you expect from a country that eroded its educational system for tax breaks for the richest 1%?
We don’t need no ejumacation! Ejumacation is some Left-winged whiney conspiracy to rob us of our money!
Goooood… I can feel the hatred flowing through you.
Gore won’t run
He’s enjoying his role as a political commentator too much..
But there is little or no doubt that the Republican party has had it’s time in office. The last congressional election told us that.
The next president will be a democrat…no doubt at all…
And in the spirit of keeping things actually ON TOPIC…
I predict that more and more Macs will find their way into the operation of government, especially in areas where security and reliability are paramount. This isn’t political… it’s just smart.
Abdullah
You just became my own personal hero. I would write a nice little paragraph here full of fact and some commentary, but you summed it up nicely and hopefully there are more people in the world that can think and rationalize rather than make ignorant comments such as the ones that take up a majority of this page.
I do love though how everyone is all for things like tough love, faith based decisions which ride the thin line between insanity and reality, and overall incompetence as opposed to democracy, rational thinking, factual based decision making, and you know, actual goodwill towards others (kinda like all that stuff Jesus was talking about, if he was real of course. but everyone likes to forget that Jesus preached love and acceptance and not bombs and persecution, *cough* Falwell.)
That’s my two cents. I’ll look for bashing later today!!
@montex
That has to be the most Chauvanistic post I’ve ever read at MDN. I’m not trying to flame you here. Seriously…. do you really believe that women “vote with their feelings”
Holy crap.
Nice comback, Chrissy.
You’re great with the gutter talk, but you don’t refute anything I said. You must therefore agree with me – you don’t like the way I put it. Clearly.
Americans and their political blindness never cease to amaze me…
Al Gore has his good points, but all and all he’s a idiot just like GW Bush is, just a different form of a idiot.
Only idiots run for president, real stars are CEO’s.
@Canadian…
zoloft is your friend
I wonder what politics would be like without all the hatred, vitriol, name-calling, character assassination, finger-pointing, and division…
I’m not certain, but I don’t think anyone would recognize it. I guess what I’m really trying to say is:
“EVERYONE KNOCK IT OFF!!!”
It’s a good job that Jobs is not a politician. I don’t think he could stand the fakers and BS. His statement about Gorey makes me want to puke. Just like knowing most of today’s actors are commies, spoils the movie.
got to the 2nd page in under an hour, that’s gotta be a record.
MAD you got that right – Ron Paul 2008!
@ ChrissyOne
“Here we go again… I’m officially sitting this one out.”
That’s usually my policy when it gets like this.
“I will vote for whoever is willing to have the guts to support the Fair Tax Plan…”
I’ll second that motion!
Get the book. Our tax system is the biggest joke in the universe. Fair Tax would absolutely ROCK on so many levels. Alas, there are no politicians with any balls to take up the fight until several million Americans get behind the plan. That’s a hint, folks!!! Check it out and get involved:
http://www.fairtax.org
Yeah, I’d be worried about making political comments if I were Steve Jobs. My Republican friends all have Mac’s too, although they are intelligent enough to know that we don’t need to stop buying Macs just because Steve Jobs makes a few political comments.
Abdullah makes some excellent points, but I still wouldn’t vote for him-I don’t think. It frankly would depend on the other candidate.
Oh, and as a white male, I most definately would consider Obama, as I would have Colin Powell, but I don’t think 2 1/2 years as senator is sufficient to be President.
I hope whoever gets elected next year is able to get us out of the mess we’re in. No matter you’re political affiliation, or where in the world you live, the present situation, for the good of the world, can’t go on.
Newt for Prez 2008. He’s not as lard-arse as Gorey.
M.A.D. – yes! Ron Paul 2008!
@Abdullah;
How about Owl Gore using 20 times the energy in his house than the average American family? Can you say hypocrite? How about his mining operations polluting the countryside around his TN home?
Oh, and to all; every recount (and several news agencies went and did them) in the end proved GW Bush the Florida winner.
“Ron Paul 2008!”
MAD is the right name for you
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As for Gore, I don’t see him as an electable Candidate. Gore is far too polarizing and is already looked at as “used goods” in the same way that John McCain and and Hogn Edwards are.
My personal opinion is that the next president (and the primary winners) will not be the ones people most expect. Much like how Bill Clinton came from nowhere, I think that we will see that again.
According to my dashboard dictionary widget, a Chauvinist is a “person displaying aggressive or exaggerated patriotism.”
Why, thank you, Jim-TIV!
and I’m super serial! ;(
@ Dr. Phil
See, this is an excellent example of the erosion of the American intellect. Dr. Phil is America’s voice of psychology; Judge Judy is America’s voice of justice.
Everytime I meet a “middle-American,” I am surprised time and time again at their stupidity, their gaping mouths and lack of reason.
In Canada, we do have our share of idiots, but I guess we have our “Canadian Politeness” that keeps them shut up. Lacking such politeness in the USA, the idiots ring loud and clear.
My prediction…. we make page three by 11:10am pacific time
Hey Farlo – I understand your point of view but that is the nature politics.
I do remember 2000. And there are a whole host of inconvenient facts that people like to forget about it.
1) Gore had his lawyers on the ground before the votes were disputed. Why?
2) The initial cry was that senior citizens were confused by the butterfly ballot and so demanded that there be a recount. This ignores the facts that they weren’t confused until they got out of the election booth. Otherwise, they could have asked for a new ballot, or asked for help from the poll workers.
3) The votes were contested in counties were Democrats controlled the electoral boards. This gave them the power to recount the votes.
4) If you are going to steal votes, you are going to do it in areas that you control, not under your enemy’s nose. The Republicans didn’t try to steal votes in Democrat-controlled counties.
5) Both Patrick Buchannan and Rush Limbaugh live in West Palm Beach county. Buchannan had a “home court” effect that boosted the number of votes he received there as compared to other counties in Florida. (Too many people were declaring that Buchanan’s votes in West Palm were voter fraud. They were not.)
6) Elections are recounted until the recounting party declares victory. That was why the Democrats were interested in recounting the votes, but actively repressed the military vote.
I could go on, but you get the point. Remember the secrets sold to China? The claims of “no controlling legal authority”? The foreign funds raised in Bhuddist temples? The environmental hypocrisy? The claims that the Clinton administration was the most ethical in history? The playing fast and loose with the truth? The bogus pro-gun posturing? Slashing the military? Fudging the economic numbers (Commerce department’s wildly inflated numbers for ’98-’00)?
Yes, we conservatives have long, long memories. Gore would lose in ’08 as he lost in ’00. He is a vicious, snarky, holier-than-thou snake-oil salesman who longs for nothing more than a green revolution (read his books, folks), in which a handful of people have a lot of power, and the rest of us live poor and powerless.
@ Montex… lol, well bro that’s not the way it was intended but I’m glad you got a laugh outta it.
Seriously. Do you really believe that women vote with their feelings?
Right on, Sara.
Well, women can’t think, so all she got is her feelings. Makes sense, doesn’t it? Or are you too stupd?
@Canadian
“In Canada, we do have our share of idiots, but I guess we have our “Canadian Politeness” that keeps them shut up.”
And your posts are an example of this “canadian politeness”?
@Montex….
“Well, women can’t think, so all she got is her feelings. Makes sense, doesn’t it? Or are you too stupd?”
uh.. ok. Sorry. Didn’t mean to offend. I thought I was talking to a normal person. My bad.
Steve Jobs should shut up about politics – now is not the time to be divisive – not when Apple is doing so well – and frankly I don’t need to be reminded that Al Gore is on the board – I try to keep that truth in a dark corner in the basement.
Steve do what you do better than anyone else – and leave the world of politics to the whores that in government.
“Obama is another great candidate. Unfortunately, men won’t vote for him because he not 100% white.”
I do not care what color Obama is, I disagree with his viewpoints on the issues. Where do you get off speaking on behalf of 100 million American males? Anyone who makes their choices simply because of skin color, religion (except in cases where the religion embraces violent or anti-american views) or gender is foolish.
The comment posted by Montex was not made by me. I never use an upper case M.
Pity. Someone has to mis-represent themselves to attack me.
@ Dr. Phil
No, I’m not being polite at all. Most Canadians, on confronting the average stupid behaviour of an American, would say nothing and go about their business. I’m not so polite, so I actually point it our how stupid you Americans are; and the majority of your posts on this site prove it.
Not that I disagree with what I supposedly had written.
@ the real montex….
Sorry bro – I was wondering if that was really you. It happens all the time. Give a shout out to MDN by clicking on the contact us link on the bottom of the page. They are pretty good at taking care of this kind of stuff.
“Americans and their political blindness…”
Don’t get me started, how about Germans and their blindness to Hitler and Italians and their blindness to Mussolini and Arabs and their blindness to every self-annointed mullah that pops up in a cave and their inability to form any remotely fair form of government. Oh, and those Chinese are doing a heck of a job with their leadership and that guy in Venezuela, boy, he is da bomb. And Putin, look how he is empowering his comrades, I mean citizens. I hear that he and the CEO of Russia’s oil monopoly are going to swap positions in the next election—how thoughtful can you be?
Please…
I’m an american?
@BustingTheSkullsOfIdiots
What you said!!
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After reading all of the wonderful, insightful comments expressed in the last couple of hours, I wonder if I could find out how many of you have ever been abducted by aliens?
I doubt Gore could win in a general election after the way he acted before, but everyone has a right to his opinion. I am glad Steve uses politics to make the wrong calls and still hits home runs in the busiiness!
Just click on the Joy of Tech thumbnail in the left column of this page to check out the real Al Gore. The image is located at:
Not that I disagree with what I supposedly had written.
Another comment that was not written by me. And, for the record, I believe that women think all sorts of things. Endlessly. It’s just that logic and reason are not usually part of the process.
And in case my phantom self chimes in again, you can easily tell the difference by my posts and my impostors simply by the use of complete sentences and proper punctuation.
“2) The initial cry was that senior citizens were confused by the butterfly ballot and so demanded that there be a recount. This ignores the facts that they weren’t confused until they got out of the election booth. Otherwise, they could have asked for a new ballot, or asked for help from the poll workers. “
You left out one important fact. The senior citizens also received a call from a telemarketing firm in Texas that was hired to inform them that they may have made a mistake with the ballot and to call their local congressman.
@Canadian: As a Brit I have to agree with you. To my generation, watching the US implode is like seeing an old friend take to the bottle and self destruct. Very sad, but there’s not much you can do.
Yup we’re up to 2 pages already. Any bets on double figures?
Page 3 first? – lol
Dear Canadian:
I don’t know if you realize this or not, but your inferiority complex is showing. Now, I understand that you have good reason to have an inferiority complex – being Canadian and all – but you should really try to do a little better job at concealing it.
You go on and on and on about how supposedly stupid Americans are, yet you recite your version of events as if you’ve been spoon fed by a very liberal Canadian press. Your “facts” are horribly skewed, but I know you’ll never realize that. You think things to be true because you *want* them to be true, not because they are. In other words, you are either unwilling or incapable of thinking for yourself, and I imagine that if you tried it, the results would be embarrassing.
Do you realize how irretrievably moronic it is to use comments made on a forum as if they’re some sort of proxy for a population at large? Ask a statistician how smart it is. Intellectual laziness or downright obtuseness is not a quality a person should have if they’re going to self righteously lecture others on what you incorrectly perceive to be their stupidity.
I mean, seriously, your little rants are laced throughout this entire thread. What does that say about you? You are clearly someone with so much to prove – and mainly to yourself. Is this the character trait of a winner? Think about it. So the next time you feel the desire to call someone a loser, go look in the mirror. There, you will find a worthy target.
@ PR
But there is little or no doubt that the Republican party has had it’s time in office. The last congressional election told us that.
The next president will be a democrat…no doubt at all…
Then you and the rest of the non working trash can collect welfare and get free health care by picking the pockets of working people (ie. Republicans)…….
Happy days will be here again when the Libs are back in power…. Free handouts, and welfare checks to buy Macbooks with!!
Mitt in 2008
Jobs was able to take a once great, seemingly dead-in-the-water computer company back to prominence and beyond. But I doubt he can do the same for Al Gore, who was never great in the first instance. What’s that old saying, “you can’t polish a turd”?
@ canadian.
Right, we must be so unintelligent down here. That explains why we are the leading super power in the world and actually have an opinion that matters in the world forum, very much unlike Canada.
MDW: Money, as in we have it and you don’t.
@Tacitus….
I don’t agree with you. The political scene in the US has always been this rambunctious. If you look at our history we’ve always gone at each others throats over politics. The mistake others have always made is that this is evidence of weakness. It’s actually evidence of strength IMO.
Ahhh, I see the TowerTone imposters are at it again.
That’s very polite of his Steveness.
I’ll take Gore over Hitlery anyday.
@ Harrison
Enjoy your supremacy now, ’cause it’s slipping through the gaping holes in your collective intellect.
The USA has screwed up its education and intelligence to the point that it will be those “foreigners” that you look down on so much, those who actually invested in the education of their population, those who actually seek to raise the intellectual bar of their population rather than lower it, it will be those ones for whom your people will be working.
The only reason why America is as strong as it is: its military. Kill off as many foreigners, cause chaos and unrest around the world, block their development. The USA is a lot like Microsoft that way: they can’t compete, so they undermine the development of others.
Now the times, they are a changin’. Your programme of dumbing down the general populace will leave you disadvantaged and helpless. Sure, it might help some sleazebag coporate assholes take advantage of you for a while, but it’s a road to the complete and utter downfall of your nation. And it all started with YOU!
3 pages in an hour and 40 min. nice.
Come on Liverpool!!
Hey, I thought we were arguing about Al Gore… when did this turn into an “I hate America” rant?
Come on people… stay on topic. Is Al Gore a Sleazebag or a Savior?
I agree with the Canadian!
And, I live in Hollywood! And, I’m not a commie as someone mentioned earlier. The difference between regular ol’ Hollywood people and politicians and the people in between the coasts is that, while we may not always be right or in some people’s cases, fully informed, we say what we believe based on life and reality. We don’t recite talking points and we don’t base our views on a fairy tale involving invisible people in the sky and plagues of animals (the locust thing was just figured out on the Planet Earth series, they were just migrating – millions and millions of them!)
OK, rip away at my liberalness and love for humanity and understanding.
Hey Canadian,
Give me some of that stuff you are smoking, it really works on the reality distortion field.
@ shawn…
uh… huh?
Not yet up 2 hours and there are already 3 pages of posts. Yikes!
Go Romney
Seriously, in all reality the US is falling way behind in education compared to the rest of the world. Our kids are being dumbed down, we can’t even teach science as it should be because people are placing their ideals and faith in a fictional tale. We’re not in the top in science research anymore. We’ve become obsessed with ignorant pop stars and the ‘news’ is hardly that. The rest of the world does look at us as a person falling victim to the bottle. Believe that one, we’re not as invincible as we think – which is why 9/11 happened. We have a false sense of security and superiority over everyone when we shouldn’t. It makes for a dangerous state of mind where reality isn’t reality at all and we’re just never really watching where we go.
The only reason that Jobs had put Gore on the board was to prevent the stock option problems that he new would be on the way. He covered his rear, so that he had an insider to ‘fix’ his problem when it was uncovered. What has Gore done for Apple except to demo his slideshows? Name some great examples! He has done a video conference, but nothing else!
Jim, yeah, that kinda meanders through whatever I was thinking at the moment, I’m not high I promise.
Fuck Al Gore AND the horse he rode in on.
Steve, please shut up and just make great products. We don’t need to hear about your politics.
Note though that I would love to see Gore run again. <snicker>
Heh, heh. Can you imagine the look on Shrillary’s face when she realizes Gore is running? BWAHAHAHAH!!!
Jobs should shut the f**k up and run a tech company. Gore is a proven f**kup.
Lol.. ok. As long as it wasn’t just me.
Steve needs to stick to Macs and iPods and keep his mouth shut. Nobody gives a shit what he thinks about politics anyway except the other libtard extremists like himself. He just makes himself look like an left wing wacko and that certainly won’t help Mac sales any….
Foreigner: “Americans and their political blindness never cease to amaze me…”
<sarcasm>And xenophobia isn’t fear of a noble gas either. Are <u>all</u> generalizations this moronic? </sarcasm>
I’m changing my prediction to six pages.
There are some subjects that are best not discussed in public: sex, religion, politics, and operating systems.
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“Libtard”? Are you only twelve or just stuck there?
It’s only in the US that a man like Bush can be selected (by a judge!!) as prep… amazing… but realllllly good sit-com!
This thread is slowing down. Everyone on the east coast is going home, everyone on the west coast is heading to lunch, everyone in flyover country is working…. Come ON people… wheres the flame?
What?!?! Do you c0cksuckerz want another republican in the white house? Hasn’t the current one screwed us enough?
Gore all the way
The funny thing to me is how many people think there are significant differences between the repubs and demos, they are basically flip sides of the same military/industrial/congressional complex coin.
The political machine in this country is fueled by money and blood.
Kucinich, Gravel, or perhaps Paul in ’08. Gore’s a stale bore entrenched up to his ears in K Street politicking.
Investigate 9/11 for real, …it’s time to unravel Bushco’s nightmare policies and laws.
mw: consider
Jobs Almighty (pees be upon him) has an uncanny talent of being able to predict what technology people will gravitate to and, for the most part, how they will use it. I personally don’t believe that you can bridge the gap between that and how people will vote.
IMHO, Gore is a polarizing figure, not unlike Hillary. If he had any Presidential aspirations he shot himself in the foot when he positioned himself as the Green messiah. Out of the current (D) candidates, I think Barry Obama has the best chance of being positioned as the great uniter. He’s too Socialist for me though.
As a Republican who is becoming increasing displeased with my party, I’m not exactly thrilled about the group of gentlemen who are vying for Commander in Chief. Moving to the “Independent” affiliation, which is actually no affiliation, is looking more and more attractive. I’d love to see a viable third party emerge, one that gives powers back to the states (i.e. abortion, gay marriage, etc.) – you know, like a Republic is supposed to. Basically like the Libertarians except with the National Parks and protected lands. I love my National Parks.
That being said, if you’re concerned with protecting the Second Amendment, I’d advise you to procure your desired items before the next election as I firmly believe a Democrat will be elected and there will be a run to restrict the Second Amendment.
Gore is a three-time loser for the position – 1988, 1992 and 2000.
If he runs again, he will lose again. Then he will be a four-time loser. I think we’ve had enough of Al Gore running for president.
As an American, Steve Jobs absolutely has the right to express his political opinions. But I wish that Steve would refrain from partisan politics anyway because it hurts Apple’s business.
I hope that Fred Thompson will Get a Mac, if he hasn’t already.
Sure Gore is probably a great guy, but his overall impression says to me that he would just grab his ankles
on any given moment of trouble. At least Bush can at least flare his nostrils and look like he would give a good fight.
Eye candy is important to Mac sales and how we appear to the rest of the world is also important. Gore or Hillary just ain’t gonna be taken seriously by the rest of the world.
If the Democrats got a plan, then let us hear an actual plan, but Bush bashing and CNN’s only report the negativity bias are nothing but a turn off.
Again, Fair Tax support gets my support, as this plan can make a real difference, even in my lifetime.
@ No Squirt for You
“Here we go. Hold on to your “buts.”
I’m going to guess at least five pages of posts.”
Only two pages to go, No Squirt.
He could not possibly be worse then Bush. know one could be worse than Bush, but he also did not help with the Kyoto Protocol, so how green can he really be.
Yep, Micro Me.
Gore in a header is always hit-tastic. Commission accomplished.
God bless the intarweb.
“At least Bush can at least flare his nostrils . . .” But why does he always look like he’s trying hard not to chuckle from some inside joke <u>every single time</u> he speaks in public?
Harriett:
“Just goes to show that Steve Jobs can be wrong. Thank god he doesn’t get to make those kind of decisions. Gore is a nimrod. Get ready for an attack on Iran. Long over due.”
Sure, and also the restatement of the draft. Just look at the low standards the Army has had to endure to be able to enlist anybody. By the way, how many relatives do you have fighting in Iraq or Afghanistan? Yes let’s fight all the wars as long as my kids, brothers, uncles, fathers… don’t have to fight! What hardship have any of us endured on this current Iraq conflict. Quite the contrary, yet hundreds die almost every day, but who cares. They are not blond blue eyed.
This post won’t take off again until later tonight, when everyone get’s off work.
I don’t know NSFY… 6 pages might be a bit high. I’m guessing five.
Hey Steve, are you going to tell us next that pigs can fly?
Sure Gore is probably a great guy, but his overall impression says to me that he would just grab his ankles
on any given moment of trouble. At least Bush can at least flare his nostrils and look like he would give a good fight. Eye candy is important to Mac sales and how we appear to the rest of the world is also important. Gore or Hillary just ain’t gonna be taken seriously by the rest of the world. If the Democrats got a plan, then let us hear an actual plan, but Bush bashing and CNN’s only report the negativity bias are nothing but a turn off. Again, Fair Tax support gets my support, as this plan can make a real difference, even in my lifetime.
Newmanstein, did you hit your head?
<look 8 posts up>
Karenna is absolutely gorgeous.
Time warp NSFY, must be
@ No Squirt For You said:
“But why does he always look like he’s trying hard not to chuckle from some inside joke every single time he speaks in public?
Seriously, you’re so right. What is that all about? I’ve always wondered.
Is someone saying something to him before he walks on like, “If we can get anyway with this, we can then move on to Iran,” or maybe he has a joke teller like a court jester…
“If we can get anyway with this, we can then move on to Iran,” or maybe he has a joke teller like a court jester…”
Or there’s a running joke in his Cabinet meetings that starts, “The countdown to the destruction of all life on earth will commence in one hour. Meanwhile, a rabbi, a priest, and a cowboy walk into a bar . . .” And that gets Lil’ Bushy to gigglin’ every time! Karl pouts because he can’t tell it right. And Condi tries her darndest not to giggle-snort. It’s so cute.
Even Steve Jobs can have a brain fart.
No Squirt For You:
That was hilarious.
Thank You
No place for a business person to be… in politics. Lets piss off half your customers. Steve jumped the shark on this one.
I don’t think Gore will run. He’s got better things to do. An interesting question, though: How many of those who voted FOR him in 2000 WOULDN’T vote for him in 2008? Now add the new voters he appeals to this time around. Makes you think … I understand it is a scary proposition for republicans, though, hence the knee-jerk.
Oh, and Gore never said he invented the internet. But then you really knew that, didn’t you? That one is on a par with “windows nowadays are as easy to use as macs”. Just because lots of misinformed people keep repeating it doesn’t make it true.
I am amazed after reading many of the comments here attacking Gore for what… exactly? No specifics are given, just trite insults, childish name-calling and in many cases, just plane un-abashed hate. That’s our country now, the US of hate. Logic is dead, we live by hate and, most importatnly, fear.
Bush and others of his ilk who use fear to consolidate power are walking in the footsteps of past tyrants that this country has worked so hard in the past to vanquish. Indeed, saying things like, “vote for me or die,” would bring smiles and nods of approval from Mussolini, Eichmann, Stalin, and yes, even Saddam. If so many of you are so sure that this is where our country needs to go, then you should at least have the guts to stand up and have yourself be counted for your beliefs. Shout clearly for all to hear that the Bill of Rights is meaningless, that the US Constitution is, as our president has said, “just a piece of paper,” and that the principles that this country was founded upon, liberty, democracy, and freedom, are nothing more than conveniences that should be tossed aside whenever you get scared. Manipulation through fear is the very definition of terrorism and if that is now what you believe in then stand up and be recognized for the cowards that you are and take your place at Bin Laden’s side to fight in his war against the US.
montex and canadian are obviously two angry guys …but smart guys ..I mean they sound intelligent. I wish they were running the world because I think they’d know how to rule the world ..to rule the rest of us ….that is with an intelligent and balanced use of power, compassion, a sense of provision for the downtrodden and an awareness of leadership that extends beyond the rest of us. …but rereading their posts they sure sound like asswipes.
gow: “Steve jumped the shark on this one.”
Why would any intelligent Mac user from any political preference be persuaded based on a CEO’s opinion? Doesn’t Steve have the right to free speech?
Turn it around gow:
If Gates promoted a candidate you favored, would that persuade you to switch to Windows?
Let’s not let reason get in the way. Oh, no. Not that.
@ GT
…that the US Constitution is, as our president has said, “just a piece of paper,”
Where and when did Bush say that? A reference, please? What was the occasion and context? Was it quoted in the press? Thanks in advance.
Al Gore is a cheap political shill. I’m disgusted to see Jobs allying himself with that facetious liar; it’s the only blight on the face of Apple at this time. I’m not American, but I think electing Gore would be a major mistake that would negatively effect the rest of us.
In order for any democracy to succeed you need an intelligent and informed population, which the US hasn’t had since the 50’s.
Um, I think he’s sees what a MESS the world has become, and THAT’S why he doesn’t want to run. Can you blame him?
@Beryllium:
http://www.rense.com/general69/paper.htm
Don’t know if it’s true or not…
Beryllium: Here’s another reference.
Bush on the Constitution: “Just a goddamned piece of paper”
http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_7779.shtml
(four pages! hah!)
Al President?
Al can’t get anything right,
– Al invented the Internet.
– Al believes Bush played on our fears.
– Now CO2 is causing global warming.
If he wins we would be paying for the Kyoto agreement.
wmd
Oh please. Are there any references to this alleged quote that aren’t from obviously partisan websites?
@GT – You start off pretty reasonable:
“I am amazed after reading many of the comments here attacking Gore for what… exactly? No specifics are given, just trite insults, childish name-calling and in many cases, just plane un-abashed hate.”
Then you degrade in to the very thing you decry:
“If so many of you are so sure that this is where our country needs to go, then you should at least have the guts to stand up and have yourself be counted for your beliefs. Shout clearly for all to hear that the Bill of Rights is meaningless, that the US Constitution is, as our president has said, “just a piece of paper,” and that the principles that this country was founded upon, liberty, democracy, and freedom, are nothing more than conveniences that should be tossed aside whenever you get scared. Manipulation through fear is the very definition of terrorism and if that is now what you believe in then stand up and be recognized for the cowards that you are and take your place at Bin Laden’s side to fight in his war against the US.”
Pot, meet kettle.
MDN MW: “true” – How does it know?
@NSFY…
Great article, although isn’t calling the ACLU “liberal” kinda like calling Nazi’s “conservative”?
(ducking)
Alright, I just showd up at this party, and see someone is dressed like me, although it wasn’t me on page one of the comments.
I just installed Parallels and Windows XP out of need the other day, and I can guarantee it would take a lot more than Jobs supporting Gore to turn me off of the Mac.
Now I will go back and read the other post, ASAP.
TT, we knew it wasn’t you… lack of grammar and spelling and all that.
Re-elect me, I’m the GOP dream candidate. I promise to run out of Iraq with my tail between my legs, just like I did in Lebanon back in ’83. And I could sell weapons to the Iranians again. Re-elect me, I’m Ronald Reagan.
OBill-Wan Kenobi: Good point. It’s highly speculative stuff. Believable, in my opinion but still very suspect.
But WAIT! Does that mean that not everything on the web is true?
NOOOOOO ! ! !
@ Beryllium
Glad to provide. I think you’ll find plenty of witnesses and discussion of the event(s) with a google search. I’ve just sent one:
http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_7779.shtml
Technically speaking, you are correct, it is a “piece of paper,” but its THE piece of paper that the president and everybody in government takes an oath to defend.
“I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.”
That’s not an oath to protect his legacy, its not an oath to start wars, its not an oath to subvert the constitution for political gain and power consolidation. The oath is written that way because there would be no US without our constitution. I’m sure some wicked witty neo-con would be quick to state the reverse, that the constitution is second to the US, but that’s false and our founding fathers knew it. When we sacrifice the principles of the constitution, freedom, rule of law, and equality, we are no longer the US as was founded in by that document in 1787, we just another failed country. A dying power and a pathetic race scared away form our principles. Principles that these days, the vast majority of our populace neither knows nor cherishes.
Jim-TIV
No, it’ not the same.
NSFY
Lifted this quote from your link.
” “”Oh, how I hate the phrase we have-a ‘living document,'” Scalia says. “We now have a Constitution that means whatever we want it to mean. The Constitution is not a living organism, for Pete’s sake.” “
That phrase is so wrong it makes me doubt the rest of the article. Scalia is a leader in the written interpretation of the Constitution. Wait-is this article a joke?-If he said this… “We now have a Constitution that means whatever we want it to mean”…He certainly must have been mocking someone, that is so against his beliefs.
Yeah, sorry, that article is so out there on misquotes, it’s borderline fabrication.
Re-elect me, I’m the DEM dream candidate. I promise to run out of the white house with my tail between my legs and let Osama Bin Laden get away and go on to kill thousands of Americans. And I could let the Chinese steal nuculear secrets again, and leave my DNA all over the oval office! Re-elect me, I’m Bill (slick willie) Clinton.
Sell your Apple stock NOW! Steve has lost his mind!
Here’s the real question:
Do you HONESTLY believe that a republican or democrat at a high level of power has gotten there by being completely honest,
direct and responsive to their constituents?
BOTH SIDES ARE COMPROMISED BY THE VERY NATURE OF THE POLITICAL PROCESS. If this isn’t clear to you by now you clearly can’t think straight.
What this means that as American’s it’s our duty to NOT trust politicians of ANY stripe.. to hold them accountable for EVERY
wrong BUT at the same time do our best to limit the corruption
that big money inevitably brings to the political process.
No one should be surprised that every politician lies. They HAVE to lie to get elected and stay in office.
This silly argument over Gore or Bush or Clinton on Guiliani or McCain, or Edwards is pointless beyond belief. If you want to effect real change and make people’s lives truly better then it’s the systems we employ that need to be addressed.
We start by going to the core of the process and get rid of political action committees, lobbying groups, and all the rest of the assholes who are destroying the American Democracy from the inside out.
@GT… I agree with your assertion of the importance of the Constitution. But I think the blog you referenced is trusting in fabrication. It smells of far left scare-mongering to me, and is dated in the middle of a serious debate that was going on about the patriot act. If you read the tone and tenor of it, it just doesn’t smell balanced at all, does it to you?
“I believe there is already a iMac in the White House, along with an iPod.”
bush isn’t smart enough to operate an iPod. who do they pay to do it for him….
@OBill-Wan Kenobi
I’m decrying the current state of our nation, what is it exactly you think is “black”? Am I remiss to point how we as a nation are failing? How we are crumbling under the pressure of terrorists and ripping down our own institutions? Maybe you’d like to elaborate on my wrongness..
By all means, educate me.
Re-elect me, because I love Bill Clinton more than my own son.
TT: I’m rescinding that link. As much as I liked parts of it, it’s too good to be true. And the Scalia part <u>was</u> way off.
@Jim – TIV
It appears that the president has used that phrase a couple times, both in jest and in serious exchanges. There are plenty of other cases/links to be found and read. Capitolhillblue is not a liberal blog. I’ve read them for some time. Before the bush era, they were regarded as right wing nut jobs. From my vantage, they are “Goldwater” conservatives. A phrase that used to mean something, but now has almost been forgotten. They’re reaction to bush and his policies is, from that perspective, not suprising or radical.
As with anything, it can be denied, but the evidence is not unreasonable and even if it were on video, there would still be those who would denie. I’ve had people get in my face saying th at Bush never said, “bring them on.” The fact is, such a statement about the constitution is not out of sync with Bush’s policies or actions. I would hope a long laundry list of those actions would not be required to make that point.
find it funny when MDN comments on whatever his name is and how he makes fun of macs to get clicks up. MDN does the same with its highlighting of political stories and their overly apparent note of being republicans.
Re-elect me! Because although I destroyed the economy, sold out the Israelis, and left our people to be hostages for 444 days in a 3rd world country, I REALLY know how to remodel houses now and I can get the press’ attention when I have two brain cells clink together every 2 years.
GT…
You make a point and your argument is reasonable, (which I appreciate) but if this statement had been made, don’t you think the left would have been all over this like white on rice?
Seriously, when even the mainstream media doesn’t cover something that would be this explosive, when even CBS turns up it’s nose and says, “nah, even we publish this”, then maybe it’s not that believable.
Al Gore never said that he ‘invented’ the internet– what he claimed was to have supported it’s development and build-out.
He was a leading spokesman for the move to transfer DARPANET, the DoD-funded grandfather of the modern internet, to academia. He also championed, campaigned and sponsored bills that funded and enabled development of the World-Wide-Web as both a Representative and Senator prior to becoming Vice-President. As he sat on many committees and sub-committes that had oversight, he had major influence on support for what we have today.
As Vice-President, he continued his efforts to advance the development of the net and related technologies. Sir Tim Berners-Lee, who is among the fathers of the internet, has said that Gore’s work in Congress was critical to the development of the net. He should know.
If you don’t like Al Gore- fine. However, if you wish to criticize him, check your facts first. Just because a Hillbilly Heroin addict (ElRushbo) said it does not make it so.
correction – “nah, even we can’t publish this”
MDN word is least, as in I should at least proof read before I post.
Well, in spite of what Steve says about Gore, I will still keep buying Macs like I have since 1988.
That is the beauty of our system. Most of us just keep living our lives and keeping the system running while the members of the political species suffer under the delusion that they create something of value.
They remind me of the rooster who crows just before sunrise, then has the gall to say: Look what I did!
Don’t re-elect me. Don’t even think about it. I’ve screwed up everything enough as it is. Don’t re-elect me.
If my memory serves me correctly, I keep telling you people -Gore is way too fat.
Monica Goodling’s pants are on fire.
-Gonzo
Any chance of me getting a shot at the 2008 presidential election?
You people making fun of Bush, Cheney, and Gonzales make me sick. Come 2008 when we have President Hillarious in office, don’t whine when all of the jihadist nuke you’re back yard and rape your grandma. Our only hope is Bush will declare marshall law and stay in office past 2008, so you liberal pansies can’t ever hope to take office. Go America!
Jim – TIV
At that time, CBS had just gotten their teeth kicked in over the President’s national guard story. Now everybody knows the bush man got the golden treatment, but that didn’t matter because Rather got too aggressive. The chilling effect spread across all major media and since corporations control that media, there’s not a lot of motivation chasing a story like that unless there’s video, a bible citation, and a note from god backing it up.
so Rush Hour, is it time to admit we lost the second world war to the Nazis?
F that sh*t.
You’re not an American, you’re a traitor.
<i>”Some people have said that I shouldn’t get involved politically because…”<i>
..it divides your customer base and hurts your company!!
Steve, CEOs and politics don’t mix. If you really feel a need to express views or somehow get involved, at least do it off the mainstream radar.
…it divides your customer base and hurts your company!!
And to expand on that, you also risk having your company and products becoming “poster childs” and political statements.
Case in point: How many Priuses could Toyota sell to cheapskate Republicans who hate buying gas, if only that car hadn’t been embraced as an icon of the extreme left?
You don’t want to be loved by the fringe, and alienated by everyone else.
To always: I’m more American then you lefty tree hugger libs! This is WAR, soldier! You may not care that the terrorists are going to bomb you city, but i sure as heck do! Thank God Bush was and is in office, and no mamby pamby the world is getting too hot losers like Gore! Everyone– pray that there is no Democrat president in ’08! It will be the end for all of us!!! Like Arnold would say: vote republican if you want to live!!
I’d vote for him again. He has more brains than the whole Bush regime combined. And so did Clinton. Even Ted Kenne…., well no, that horses ass is totally brainless.
Steve Jobs as President mmm… No more debt, better structured system of government, and the most hated and respected President.
All this talk of Steve not getting into politics…
Great points indeed, but I think he’s entitled. We’ve been told by more than a few of our political leaders that government and business need to get together more. That’s the basis behind deregulation, privatization, and the republican mantra of running a government like a business. For the most part, that has not worked out so well. Corporations meddle in our govenment non-stop. Steve surely is very aware of that. Maybe he’s just tired of “doing the right thing” when so many are getting away with doing so much. It may not be very upstanding, but all he’s doing here is expressing an opinion. I don’t see the mightly Apple lobby lurching into action on this. Unless somebody has additional info to share.
@LorD 1776…
Now THAT’s funny right there!
@ GT… “Rather got too aggressive”??? lol… nice way to put it.
This has been quite entertaining. C’mon five pages!
Al Gore will run. And he will win, just like before, but with the closest thing to a landslide that we’ve seen in this country since Reagan. Obama will be his running mate and Hillary will become Senate Majority Leader (which is where she should have staked her claim all along). And none of it will matter.
Why?
Because another attack will occur on American Soil before the inauguration. Or the Middle East War will escalate – probably due to an attack on Iran by us – to biblical proportions. Or, probably, both. And then Bush – or Cheney if the attack at home is an assassination of Bush himself – will declare martial law, and the United States of America as we have known and loved it will cease to exist. We will have re-trod the path of Ancient Rome at a sprint, from republic to empire, all for the pursuit of power and hubris. However, unlike Rome, we will not last long. We are already a financially bankrupt, resource poor, manufacturing weakling, without a real friend left in the world. And it is the rest of that world that will take us down, probably with China at the head of a New Coalition of the Willing.
I’ll be an old man by then, God willing, and I’ll tell the stories of how great we once were – of the Founding Fathers, of Lincoln, of TR and FDR and, yes, even JFK. How we were a beacon of moral goodness and intellectual rationality once, and came ohsoclose to proving that we were just about as fine as we thought we were, with the world cheering us the whole way. And then I’ll tell how, in the span of two generations, we pissed it all away, by thinking that none of that sentimental drivel mattered once we became the biggest & most powerful kid on the block. That it was all lost by the Boomers, and their addled progeny who learned all too well their parents’ ‘Me First/Right Now’ Hobbsian lessons on life, who both forgot what built us into that powerhouse in the first place. I’ll probably be living off of dog food, as most of us will once the whole thing comes down, but I’ll still tell the stories. It’ll be the only way to give the new generations here any sense of hope at all.
Make no mistake – Gore is the best chance at true leadership we have right now: He’s smart (no one can question that), can assess the threats – the real ones – that we face (his record on the environment, terrorism, and public positions on Iraq bear that out), as well as the opportunities we should capitalize on (he WAS the driving legislating force behind the creation of the Internet, and renewable energy IS the future), and has the experience and ability to deal with them (Gore was in charge of Clinton’s ‘Shrink Government’ initiative, and to this day is the only politician that has ever actually done it). And, I think, has learned some lessons in humility and who his real friends are since the 2000 debacle. He’s as good as we’re going to get a chance to pick for a good long while.
But the Powers that we’ve let subvert this country will do anything they can to keep a guy like him from taking back what they’ve been stealing from ALL of us for the last 40-50 years. It’s those Powers that have been leading us around by our self-absorbed noses for decades; that took a national tragedy and used it to cleave away our liberties and sacrifice our children in the sands of a foreign land, all so they could finally possess the source of their power without messy democratic/nationalistic movements or unpredictable client-dictators getting in their way.
I’ll vote for Al Gore, because to not vote for him would be to prove that we Americans are as stupid and blind and hate-filled as most of the world is convinced we are. And then I’m going to sharpen my pen, pray to my God, and even clean my gun, as I wait for the backlash. And then I’m going to defend what’s left of this great country with everything I have, as best I can.
Everybody in the whole freakin’ world, ‘cept for some minor part of the US electorate, know that George W Bush have made the world a more dangerous place, especially for americans. It’s not even very difficult to understand why. I heard a canadian say once that what separates americans and canadians is that when they go abroad, canadians have a maple leaf on their backpack. Not to show they are canadians, but to show they are not americans. Survival strategy. And your argument against Gore is what? That you don’t understand a movie he was in? A movie the current president couldn’t pronounce the name of, I might add (incovienent? inconvenant? missconvenient? hell, with nukular energy we’ll solve the whole shit!). Sorry, I know ridiculing Bush isn’t the way to go, but his ridiculability is so enormous …
Waaaaay back on page #1
———————————————————————
Comment from: No Squirt For You
Here we go. Hold on to your “buts.”
I’m going to guess at least five pages of posts.
Any takers?
————————————————————————-
I was thinking of 6
So no way betcha on that one
Have you seen ’em over at CBS ?
They get to 10 or more sometimes
C’mon folks – don’t stop now
” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”wink” style=”border:0;” />
Thank You
BC Kelly
Tallahassee Fla
Tallahassee – Indian word meaning “Place where Chief run crooked game”
ok, somebody give Odyssey67 some decaf.
Chanting “page 6, page 6, page 6, page 6!!!!!!”
Hey everyone,
I’m making a collection, consider sending ame a donation. I’m making a fund to purchase enough tin foil to make Odysee67 the nicest, biggest, mind-control preventitive hat possible. If I get $10,000 by Tuesday, I might be able to buy enough.
This wasn’t nearly as gory as I thought it would be. Is everyone bushed?
@ Odyssey67
Eloquently put – despite what others have said.
The truth hurts, as they say and to themotie– you made me laugh out loud. Hard. Thanks!
(page 6 here we come…. at least 5)
“During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet.”
Said during interview with Wolf Blitzer on CNN’s “Late Edition” 3/9/99
Careful up there Hyperbole Genie and TowerTone
Odyssey67 makes some very good points.
Portions of his Essay could be argued, and I have difficulty with some of his conclusions, but his basic grasp of History – and his description of our current Cultural situation, and how we got here – are fundamentally sound. Especially the part about the Baby Boomers and their kids – that’s a good one.
The “Powers”, as he calls them, are merely Eisenhower’s Military/Industrial Complex who have now been joined by the Muti-National Corporate Conglomerates. “They” are, by definition, beholding to their $tockholder$, and we ain’t them.
Yes, perhaps the writer could use some “decaf”, and he does at times have one wheel on the road and one in the ditch, but it is an enjoyable change of pace to read someone who has thoughts – whatever they may be – that won’t fit into a :30 sec soundbyte.
Thanks, BC
Now, get to page 6
Hear the man himself. Conference call interview regarding his new book found here:
http://www.taylormarsh.com/audio.php?audio=http://www.taylormarsh.com/podcast/mp3/stream.2007-05-22.141008.mp3
The journalists are clearly trending left, but Gore makes so much sense, explains thing clearly, and pronounces his words right … A far cry from what occupies the White house today.
I agree with Jobs and I think Odyssey is 100% on point with the possible dangers we face.
GORE/OBAMA ’08
It’s not that Americans are either more stupid or less stupid than other nationalities rather it’s a self-imposed ignorance about matters outside the United States. I guess this may go with the territory of a large superpower that simultaneously grapples with being an isolationalist country.
All Post World War II Presidents have been engaged internationally whilst many constituents really don’t give a flying finagle about anything outside of their own borders.
This ignorance can in turn be seen as stupidity and arrogance.
In terms of American democracy it’s not a direct form of democracy (electing delegates who then nominate a candidate to run for the President or Governor etc) and this further disconnects the majority of the electorate which in turn leads to more ignorance.
I could go on but never confuse ignorance with stupidity. If you ever want an example of stupidity just look at President Bush he’s really stupid and he would never ever get to lead a party in a parliamentary system. He’d be chewed up and spat out in the maelstrom that is called parliamentary democracy.
“Americans and their political blindness never cease to amaze me…”
Foreigners with inferiority complexes never cease to annoy me.
Let me set the Bush-bashers straight once and for all…
Bush’s double-term reign over the US has generally been loathed, hated, boycotted (getting there), etc. by most of the US. Millions would agree that anyone could be a better president than Bush.
Or could they?
We really can’t tell. We (re)elected Bush to lead us, remember?
Bush won’t send the troops back from Iraq. His reason: because that retreat will cause the terrorists to come to us. All I can tell is that that will prove itself right or wrong in twenty months or so. The next president will probably be a Democrat, and that president will probably send the troops home.
As for me, I think Gore’s a little too busy to run for the Oval Office. Global warming awareness, an Apple Executive, and look at his office! <strike>(Read: pigsty.)</strike>
@ BC Kelly
Now, get to page 6
Do you really have to egg us on?
MW: law … that’s so not funny!
” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”shut eye” style=”border:0;” />
Dear Canadian:
I don’t know if you realize this or not, but your inferiority complex is showing. Now, I understand that you have good reason to have an inferiority complex – being Canadian and all – but you should really try to do a little better job at concealing it.
You go on and on and on about how supposedly stupid Americans are, yet you recite your version of events as if you’ve been spoon fed by a very liberal Canadian press. Your “facts” are horribly skewed, but I know you’ll never realize that. You think things to be true because you *want* them to be true, not because they are. In other words, you are either unwilling or incapable of thinking for yourself, and I imagine that if you tried it, the results would be embarrassing.
Do you realize how irretrievably moronic it is to use comments made on a forum as if they’re some sort of proxy for a population at large? Ask a statistician how smart it is. Intellectual laziness or downright obtuseness is not a quality a person should have if they’re going to self righteously lecture others on what you incorrectly perceive to be their stupidity.
I mean, seriously, your little rants are laced throughout this entire thread. What does that say about you? You are clearly someone with so much to prove – and mainly to yourself. Is this the character trait of a winner? Think about it. So the next time you feel the desire to call someone a loser, go look in the mirror. There, you will find a worthy target!
Not me talking about Odysee last page.
You got the name now, bud.
Let’s see what you can do with it
Real TT: Sucks, doesn’t it? Pathetic losers.
MW: real – ironic.
TowerTone
If you mean ME as “bud” (or even if you don’t) – not sure how you can say “Not me talking about Odysee last page” (we’ll forgive the spelling), unless someone else is using your name:
————————————————————————————-
Comment from: TowerTone May 23 – 7:59pm
Hey everyone,
I’m making a collection, consider sending ame a donation. I’m making a fund to purchase enough tin foil to make Odysee67 the nicest, biggest, mind-control preventitive hat possible. If I get $10,000 by Tuesday, I might be able to buy enough.
——————————————————————————-
Not sure what that means, but it doesn’t seem ‘happy’
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And no idea what I, nor anyone, could do with you, or your name – sorry.
Good luck, thanks, BC
Are we there yet ?
@ BC Kelly:
That’s what TowerTone was saying. Someone else is using his name. It’s a problem on this board. So he’s not taking up a collection. It’s someone else….
@No Squirt For You. Five pages! You made it. Congratulations.
WTF!
Are you channeling Pierre Elliott Trudeau?
Just a little left of Karl Marx, eh?
“…as long as Saddam stays in power, there can be no comprehensive peace for the people of the Israel…or the Middle East. We have made clear it is our policy to see Saddam Hussein gone.”
Al Gore to AIPAC on 5/23/00
I would agree with the above poster(s) that we Americans tend to either gloss over the true issues, or refuse to take time to understand their complexities. The Gonzales hearings are a case in point– the revelations that have come out of the hearings are truly alarming, and we have only started to scrape the surface, yet few Americans it seems have taken the time to pay attention to them. The overall impact of these hearings could be as benign as the Attorney General is merely stupid and inept, or it could be the worst case scenario of the White House using the DoJ to circumvent law and perhaps, ultimately, use the DoJ and the US Attorneys to engineer future elections. Not to say that is what’s indeed happening…. just saying it’s a possibility. Either way, it is getting harder and harder to say with a straight face that this administration is acting ethically.
Be you Democrat or Republican, we (and the world) deserve better than what Bush & Co. have to offer. A true leader would not have polarized a country that was so recently unified after 9/11. And my hope is the next President (be they Democrat OR Republican– unlike some partisan sheep out there, I will be voting for the best candidate, regardless of party affiliation) will restore the honor, culpability, and trust that this administration has so clearly shattered.
G=Spank Because “Liberalism is a mental disorder” and is so Quislingesqe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vidkun_Quisling
makemineamac:
Appreciate the heads up – although I’d thought of that, never considered someone would really do it, or why they’d want to
Guess I’m just from the ol’ school where the only thing we really have that’s of any true value is our “good name”
Ah well, live and learn
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Thanks
BC Kelly
Tallahassee Fla
Yup.
Best candidate, regardless of affiliation.
That is why I am a registered Independent.
Mr hemorrhoid,
The Democrats are the polarizers, waving the “white flag” with Mr. Fred Rodgers as their sudo leader. Anyone with half a brain knows that the enemy can see the democrats are likened to Mr.Rodgers and will “Quisling” ( from mike’s post above) the fight against radical Islam. Little girls running away from the fight yelling MOMMY!!!!! They just keep the body count up and the democrats will wave the white flag in defeat. Just like they have.
Hitler would of won with weak little pussy people like you and 78% of Europe. Hitler walked all over Europe then and Islam will do it in time too. The thing is, back then a democrat was not a anti-America hater like they are now.
Steve,
Piss off. Nowhere in my post did I say anything about being a Democrat. I am unaffiliated and choose the best candidate, regardless of party. Also, nowhere did I say Democrats do a better job than Republicans. My issue is with this current ADMINISTRATION. When you learn how to critically think and quit being a mindless sheep, maybe you’ll understand.
Comparing the current war in Iraq to World War II is infantile and demonstrates an embarrassingly low I.Q on your part. Saying Islam will take over the world shows an even more embarrassingly ignorant understanding of the world situation.
I am an American, and I hold this country and this flag to the highest regard. Being a “Bushie” sheep does not give you special claim to that over me or anyone else. Caring for this country means you have to perform your duty as an American, and critically assess where its leadership is taking us. Being a blind yes-man to the talking point propaganda of this administration, and insulting those who aren’t, is NOT being a good patriot, regardless of what your pea-brain thinks. Bush works for the people– not the other way around.
Quit sucking on Bush’s tit and think for a minute. And if all you can muster is “kill everyone else before they kill us”, then I truly feel sorry for you.
Steve writes “…The Democrats are the polarizers, waving the “white flag” with Mr. Fred Rodgers as their sudo leader. Anyone with half a brain…”
Any one with half a brain knows that “sudo” is spelled “pseudo”.
Any one with half a brain knows that the D in “democrats” is capitalized.
“not a anti-America hater”; you mean “not AN anti-America hater”?
I know you meant also to say “Islam will do SO in time”.
I’ll give you this, “polarizer” IS a word.
(Like “decider”).
But still, you are an idiot.
It’s understandable, your affinity for Bush.
Excuse me,
“Anyone”.
As I review various posts, I’m sorry.
As eletist as this sounds, re: the “Steves” on this board, I just find it hard to fathom that they are Mac users.
Know what I mean?
Sorry, Steve.
(About all the “big words”, I mean).
@ Always Right
If you’re going to point out flaws in other peoples grammar, spelling, etc., perhaps you should also check your own.
For example, “eletist”,(your spelling), last time I checked is spelled “elitist”.
I’m just sayin’….
One of the great things of late is that we have a lot more Mac users around. Those users will come from many political and social backgrounds. I think it’s great. It’s great for Apple and it’s great for the end-user like you and I. With that expanding user base, will come many different opinions on who or what is right.
As for this discussion, there are bound to be lots of thoughts about what is happening right now in the US and around the world. This discussion is supposed to be related to a comment Steve Jobs made regarding his “thoughts” on whether Gore would get elected or not if he ran for President.
What has taken place for the most part, instead of thought-provoking commentary regarding the statement he made, is back and forth insults, and blame-shifting for the current state of the world.
Who knows where it will go from here, but the goal here since the beginning, (my tongue firmly planted in my cheek here), as laid out, or hoped for by user, “No Squirt For You”, has been to achieve 6 pages of comments. I think we’re going to hit it.
Anyway, there have been some great posts, yours as well, and I’m sure it will go on from here.
Hope you have a great one.
I’m as liberal as they get, but I really don’t think Gore is electable. At this point, I’m so disgusted with everyone, republicans and democrats, that I just want to try something new. So, Obama it is. I don’t care if he doesn’t have as much experience as the other candidates. I’m willing to take the chance.
MDN Word: “Wrong” As in Bob Roberts, “What’s right is right, and what’s left is wrong.”
Foreigners with inferiority complexes never cease to annoy me.
Brilliant. Make a political issue a psychologial one.
While you get annoyed, others get killed.
Gore should run. Obama is too inexperienced and there’s something about Clinton that makes people uneasy.
Al would walk it, and be the best President the USA has had in years (six at current count).
After seeing that photo, I must say it was the first time I’d seen anyone with three 30inch displays reading news papers or documents on it, whilst the table is all littered with books.
Compared with George Bush’s office, which is almost empty except the nice furnishings …
I think Al Gore is well informed… and would no doubt make a much better president.
Thak you Hemorrhoid Rage, for a very thoughtful post.
At the risk of inciting more flames I think our Prime Minister did you no favours by supporting Bush in Iraq. In his desire to be ‘America’s Best Friend’ he forgot that being a best friend does no mean blind acquiescence in everything that friend does. Sometimes, however reluctantly, you have to tell that friend something they would rather not hear. Hopefully you can then save them from the consequences of their own folly.
In this case we should have encouraged to stay out, perhaps by greater UN involvement, possibly by diplomatic means. Whatever it took, even to the extent of a public statement that the UK would not support you. Sure there would have been lots of flack, Brits lost their bottle, yellow bellied Limeys and so on. It would hurt for a time but we’d get over it.
An isolated America may then have paused for thought and a lot of fine young men would still be here today, to say nothing of those Iraqis who have been killed.
So far back that I can’t remember who posted it, but I agree lots of noise can be a symbol of a vibrant democracy. However from this side of the pond things like the Patriot Act, suggest that your democracy is not what it was. Add an economy that is increasingly reliant on foreign money and you have problems.
THERE IS NO POPULAR VOTE!!!
(still chanting) – Page 6, Page 6, Page 6, Page 6! (pauses to catch breath) Page 6, Page 6, Page 6, Page 6!!!!
I don’t understand what’s so wrong with Page 5?
Spartacus, there is nothing wrong with page 5 so much, just that we really will be over-achieving if we hit page 6. Know what I mean?
al gore is too fat to run.
(takes a hit of his breathalizer!)
page 6, pa(cough)ge 6, Ph -a-a-ge s-(cough)ix…. aw fergit it.
But if we get to Page 6, is that not an achievement that Gore can claim for himself? Can he not say: “Were it not for my contribution to the political sphere, thread 13698 at MacDailyNews would never have gotten to a six-page thread in such a short space of time nor would there have been an Internet for it to travel through?”
But can I just say to the sparrow that just crapped on The Chimpanzee In Chief.
Way to go!!! May you never get bird flu.
Spartacus, did that really happen? Really? If so, that would be fan-tastic.
And as for Gore claiming this thread as a result of all he has done for the internet in general, I’m cool with that.
Gore’s on Letterman.
(Right now).
Gore sucks Bush!!!
Maybe Gore could bore the terrorists to death. Listening to him is like listening to wood cure and about as animated too.
Seriously though, if these 20 morons are the best America has to put forward for President we are doomed.
I wonder what H. Ross Perot is up to? Now there is a guy that could out crazy Amadinnerjacket!
Makemineamac…
Happened during his Rose Garden press conference yesterday.
Perino, Perineum or whatever her name is tried to spin it as “of course, it’s supposed to be good luck”.
Which it would be if the bird had some horrendous disease that would cut this presidency short; the problem after that would be getting the same bird to crap on Cheney.
My sources say the sparrow is already in an orange jumpsuit and on its way to Gitmo.
You guys are all ridiculous. All Steve said was that if Gore ran, he’d win. Gore is his friend. I’d say that about mine.
However, of course Gore would win. Unfortunately, their are people in the USA that are not ready for a woman or minority president, even if they are the best choice. Gore has the popularity now and Inconvenient Truth has painted him with an improbable, yet charismatic personality. Something his image sorely lacked in 2000.
Hilary won’t beat him. Barrack posibly but again, I think America would vote for Gore. I’m not a Gore fan at all. Lean towards the Republicans (although they’ve made a mess of things).
The GOP really don’t have anyone that can stand up to Gore. As 2004 showed though, they could surprisingly beat Hillary/Barrack based on their minority status. You’d hope that wouldn’t come into it, but it will unfortunately.
I’m voting for Perot. Maybe Nader. Not sure.
And the Dems should seriously be thanking Bush. How good will the next President look?
And for those painting Canadians with the same brush, please don’t.
Some of us up here do think. I mean, hey, some of us CHOOSE to buy Apple. Right there that boosts us by 40 IQ points.
Be wary of Microsoft. FUD can work. (Bush beat Kerry after all!)
Spartacus:
Thanks for that you weren’t kidding.
I heard about the sparrow being on his way to Gitmo too, they’re hoping though that once he gets there, and is subjected to well, whatever it is they do there to sparrows, he’ll sing.
And yes it was good luck alright. Or karma. Or the sparrow was saying, this is what we all think of you right now Mr. Veto man.
Thanks for the laugh and cheers!
Good God!! Isn’t it bad enough that he’s on the Board? Hopefully Steve sticks to the business end of things and leaves presidential predictions and endorsements to others.
Just think back to Al’s bearded & unwashed personna post 2000 election and ask yourself if he should ever be in such a position.
Steve might just want to “shut up and make Macs”
@Mac 54
What could be worse:
An unwashed guy with a beard and lots of common sense on environmental and other issues, or a guy whose “God” told him to attack Iraq. (Same God neglected unfortunately at the time to tell him there were no weapons of mass destruction?)
You tell me. I think Gore could maybe do some good…. But that’s just me….
And Steve is welcome to have an opinion as far as I’m concerned, just like the rest of us are…
Holy Moses, we might make it to page 6. I’ll do my part, and the rest of you don’t start slacking off now that we’re so close
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Ok, let me confess – I finally read the article in question.
Plus, saw Al last night on Letterman. Sorry to say his “message” doesn’t translate well on a quickie talk show. Guess we need to read the book.
The jest of the original article and Al’s current situation regarding any ‘run’, as I understand it, is that he believes he can be more effective, and do more ‘good’, where he’s at now following the path presently before him.
Yes, to be Prez would have its benefits, but remember that ol’ saying “Poets are the unacknowledged legislatures of the World.”
And he’s challenging all of us, Demo/Repub/Whig/Whatever, to understand the New World Order/Global Village we now live in, and the unique problems we face, as we move into the Future.
Problems that, although they have similarities to those in the Past, are a construction of our recent History – the ‘Automobile/Suburb/got-to-have-it-now-no-matter-what-it-cost’ culture we’ve invented which should be self-evident is not sustainable, and could be our demise.
So, go read Al’s words. Vote for anyone you want. Just be aware of the REAL reality and act accordingly.
Wake up Toto – we’re not in Kansas anymore.
And, we ALL need to “Think Different”.
Thank You
BC Kelly
Tallahassee Fla
I love the Republicans!
I love the way they support the Constitutional right of freedom of speech.
Unless it disagrees with their view.
I’m particularly fond of the way they deny the human rights of others, whilst availing themselves of the protection afforded by the US Constitution. What happened to “If you’ve got nothing to hide, you’ve got nothing to fear” – seems that only works if you can cut an immunity deal.
But what I don’t understand about our right-winged friends is Why do they complain so much about the cost of developing a sane approach to energy, whilst gladly spending a trillion dollars trying to establish control of a hotbed of religious and tribal tension?
Seriously, could that trillion dollars not have been invested more wisely in helping to free the country from the yoke of depending on oil? Or maybe it could have been invested in delivering comprehensive security at the nation’s ports and airports?
Republicans here loathe the idea of “tax and invest” Democratic policies, but have no problem with “borrow and spend” Republican policies probably because they think it’s never going to catch up with them. I wouldn’t mind, but the spending isn’t even for the benefit of American citizens; Where is the money that has been wasted on “no-contest” procurement? Where is the money that’s been wasted on botched construction and infrastructure projects? Where is the money that’s simply vanished without a trace?
People on my side of the political fence sometimes compare this administration to the Nazis: that’s absolute nonsense and they should be ashamed of themselves.
The Nazis knew how to keep accurate records on the profits on every corpse; this bunch of bible-bashing, gun-toting chickenhawks couldn’t keep track of a sock of dimes.
Impeach now!
(BTW: that should get us to six pages, happy now??)
ok, this one took off again, but I think it’s done for. All of the regulars are refusing to flame, and none of the newbies are going to take the bait to take it further.
Still, you gotta admit, this has been a good moneymaker for MDN.
Some people have no commitment!
Rush Hour
To always: I’m more American then you lefty tree hugger libs! This is WAR, soldier! You may not care that the terrorists are going to bomb you city, but i sure as heck do! Thank God Bush was and is in office, and no mamby pamby the world is getting too hot losers like Gore! Everyone– pray that there is no Democrat president in ’08! It will be the end for all of us!!! Like Arnold would say: vote republican if you want to live!!
Talk about my psychological complexes…
Oh, and talk about my moronic generalization too…
Al Gore couldn’t win an election for City Dogcatcher.
That said, Obama and Clinton are so uninspiring that maybe he could win the Democratic Presidential nomination – then lose.
Al Gore is global warming alarmist with a pea-sized brain. He wants the rest of us to conserve energy while he heats and cools his huge mansion. Thank God almighty that he didn’t win the presidential election in 2000.
I can’t believe Steve Jobs likes this S.O.B. Makes Steve look like an idiot.
And… we did it! I think that means he IS going to be president!
Rush Hour To always: I’m more American then you lefty tree hugger libs!
Hmmm, a difficult one to prove surely – are we now judging Americanism on some ideal of racial purity? Maybe I was wrong about the Nazism thing. Or are we judging it based on unquestioning acquiescence to the Executive’s view. Yeah, still a little too Nazi for my liking.
This is WAR, soldier! You may not care that the terrorists are going to bomb you city, but i sure as heck do!
Really, I’m enormously happy for you. Of course – if you recall – it would appear that President Chimpy McFlightsuit didn’t care about the fact that terrorists were likely to bomb US cities when he was given his daily briefing
Thank God Bush was and is in office, and no mamby pamby the world is getting too hot losers like Gore!
Yeah, thank God Chimpy was reading My Pet Goat and has spent so much time clearing brush in Crawford. Otherwise, God only knows how much damage the little fuckwit could have done.
Everyone– pray that there is no Democrat president in ’08! It will be the end for all of us!!!
That’s an easy one: I don’t think there can be Democrat president in 2008 unless Cheney and Bush both get impeached. I think what you meant is 2009 which is when the next President takes office. It’s OK, the lesson in how the Government works is free.
Like Arnold would say: vote republican if you want to live!!
Unless, of course, you happen to be a member of the Armed Services
Spartacus:
Are you sure you are not a Canadian? Maybe an expat? You are too smart and far to well spoken to be an american.
Well done sir.
This is all hilarious!
Bush IS a mamby-pamby.
A CHEERLEADER!
While John Kerry fought in Vietnam, no less.
I refuse to believe that some of these posters aren’t fake, manufactured to generate more posts.
Spartacus is right on.
Time (long past) to impeach.
Or what? We should wait untill some one wants to give George a blowjob, then spend $40 mil “investigating” it?
Bush’s OWN people are turning against him.
Who’s dumb enough to still defend that retard?
http://politicalhumor.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=politicalhumor&zu=http://www.ifilm.com/ifilmdetail/2646755
@ Always Right
As you’ve seen, there are still a “few” who support GW, as hard as it is to believe and comprehend. But you’re right, his own people are turning on him right, left and center.
Six pages. Let’s not go any higher than this one did…
@ Always Right
This is all hilarious!
Bush IS a mamby-pamby.
A CHEERLEADER!
While John Kerry fought in Vietnam, no less.
Then why did we ever elect and reelect Bush? Because we did.
I refuse to believe that some of these posters aren’t fake, manufactured to generate more posts.
Well, my last one was real.
Cough up some more names and I’ll see about them.
Spartacus is right on.
Time (long past) to impeach.
… For doing …?
Or what? We should wait untill some one wants to give George a blowjob, then spend $40 mil “investigating” it?
Problem is, most of the media loves to exaggerate things, so there will be a price tag on investigations. If we want the truth, we should start reading the ONION from now on.
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Bush’s OWN people are turning against him.
Who’s dumb enough to still defend that retard?
Retard = IQ is 70 or less. One key element of mental retardation is a speaking disability. I only hear a Southern accent.
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If our president is supposed to have the highest IQ in the world, then Marilyn vos Savant would have a little surprise.
Pass me another link.
MW: cause … whatever it is, it’s always wrong, right?
=[corrected]
Why impeach?
Jesus, how long have you got?
Let’s start with failing to defend the Constitution.
How about making torture a part of the war on terror? Presumably water-boarding – which we considered torture in WWII – is now just aggressive interrogation. In any case, it’s beneath the dignity of the country that is supposed to be a beacon of freedom to those suffering under the yoke of oppressive regimes.
How about being responsible for taking the country into a pre-emptive “war” based on a lie. Sorry, a series of lies including WMD, links to Al Quaeda and links to 9/11. Even if you put forward the paper-thin excuse that other countries including Russia were also reporting the threat of Iraqi WMDs, there are any number of questions: firstly, since when did the USA start relying on the intelligence supplied by a crypto-fascist state like Russia as “back-stop” verification.
Secondly, if Russia genuinely believed the threat was real, why didn’t they have any skin in the GWII game?.
Thirdly, WMD or not, from where did the “intelligence” on Iraq’s involvement in 9/11 come? Please don’t tell me Chelabi, or I’ll be forced to go and strap my ribs up before they split.
But let’s continue: Remember the line “the buck stops here”. For which part of government responsibility is The Missing Link President not culpable?
Ignoring warnings on the uptick in Al Quaeda activity in the months before 9/11.
Deliberately seeking to confuse the 9/11 attacks with the administration’s antipathy towards Iraq.
Making the country weaker by committing our armed services to an unnecessary war, thus reducing our readiness to confront real threats from real enemies.
Completely failing in the response to Katrina – a tragedy which is still evident in the way in which New Orleans and its population are still struggling to recover.
Being asleep at the wheel whilst the Vice-President and his cronies ride rough-shod over the conventions on which this country is built. Presumably, you believe that the nation’s deputy chief – who is a heartbeat away from leading the country – has the right to display his contempt for the legislature by swearing at its members; I think its a personal failure of statesmanship and leadership and Bush should have reined in the Veep and told him so.
Being the Commander-In-Chief whose Pentagon lied over the death of Pat Tillman, failed to put our injured veterans in accommodation commensurate with their sacrifice, killed the servicemen of our allies (and then attempted to cover it up using the thinnest excuses imaginable) and failed to provide our servicemen with the tools necessary to do their job.
Failing to remove Rumsfeld as soon as it became apparent the man couldn’t find his ass with both hands, a map and a fucking torch.
The whole Gonzo affair: Gonzales is his man and the ever evolving story of what should have been the routine replacement of some US District Attorneys is now becoming a disgrace in a country in which justice is supposed to be delivered independent of race, religion or political allegience. Trying to cover up the scandal by claiming some specious concept of executive privilege is an insult to the office.
Want me to carry on?
This man is a disaster. A living testament to the fact that a man can be promoted way beyond his level of competence.
I want a leader who spells out a vision based on hope, not a nightmare based on fear and suspicion.
I want a leader who can express coherent thoughts in complete sentences.
But most of all, I want a leader that recognises that he or she is answerable to other people other than just Almighty God. And by the same token, that he or she has to lead and unite all the people, not just the people whose vote happened to come their way.
I think these lyrics sum up the sentiment of many re: america
RUFUS WAINWRIGHT
“Going To A Town”
I’m going to a town that has already been burnt down
I’m going to a place that has already been disgraced
I’m gonna see some folks who have already been let down
I’m so tired of America
I’m gonna make it up for all of The Sunday Times
I’m gonna make it up for all of the nursery rhymes
They never really seem to want to tell the truth
I’m so tired of you, America
Making my own way home, ain’t gonna be alone
I’ve got a life to lead, America
I’ve got a life to lead
Tell me, do you really think you go to hell for having loved?
Tell me, enough of thinking everything that you’ve done is good
I really need to know, after soaking the body of Jesus Christ in blood
I’m so tired of America
I really need to know
I may just never see you again, or might as well
You took advantage of a world that loved you well
I’m going to a town that has already been burnt down
I’m so tired of you, America
Making my own way home, ain’t gonna be alone
I’ve got a life to lead, America
I’ve got a life to lead
I got a soul to feed
I got a dream to heed
And that’s all I need
Making my own way home, ain’t gonna be alone
I’m going to a town
That has already been burnt down
———-
MW= Job. As in america has quite a “job” to do to fix the mess it made.
Maple Man…
I’ve watched Rufus Wainwright perform that song several times and it will move me and sadden me no matter how often I hear it.
At the end of this term, Republicans should be barred from controlling either the legislative or executive branch for a generation or until they have a supervising adult in charge. When all of them can read without moving their lips or have a conversation with a lobbyist that doesn’t result in someone getting some sort of payola, they can have a go at running the country again.
If you want to know why I take such a strict view on it, I’ve become concerned that the Republican Party appears to think that intelligence is an optional extra when compared to the ability to speak folksy aphorisms whilst wearing your religious convictions on your sleeve.
My President can bore me stupid about his religious beliefs when all the children in this country leave school with a decent education and the elderly and the vulnerable have adequate health care commensurate with being the world’s largest economy. Until then, he can fuck off and do his day-job.
BTW, not a Canadian – just bought up in the age of Watergate to question the status quo and not to be an advocate/practitioner of “America First, Right Or Wrong”.
Okay, Spartacus, you have a point.
But remember that Congress is in charge of impeaching a president. Seeing that the Democrats now take up most of Congress, Bush could be impeached next Friday, for all we know.
Then why hasn’t it happened yet?
Perhaps the busiest legislative body in the nation, Congress already has many issues to resolve and a full agenda to empty if they want to impeach the president.
But might Bush simply resign if he gets impeached?
If he knows he’ll have 100% chances of getting thrown out, then Bush could resign. If I know about Bush, though, he’ll argue his argument and hope he doesn’t lose his office.
Yeah, I’ve talked too much.
MW: out — I’m out. No page seven, please
“Republican Party appears to think that intelligence is an optional extra “
you’re pretty strong evidence that for most Democrats, intelligence is an option extra. or more precisely, lack of intelligence is what makes them a suitable Democrat.
To become Democratic candidate for President you just have to be a millionaire who knows that the average Democrat voter is less intelligent, weaker willed, more easily manipulated and will believe whatever junk you feed them about how you’re going to make their life better without them having to work harder for it.
Thank you, Hmm.
than god for america -> where else would we keep the americans!
Wow giving the world bush and microsoft-> redemption in the form of osx and a mac almost balances the ledger, but not quite.
Sad truth even two of Americas last three most loyal ‘friends’: England and Australia are sick of the United states and that shaved chimp you call Mr President. Why don’t you people get it: you system is great for those well employed and well paid. Then you complain about getting beaten and robbed and killed by the other 40% of your population you exploit with virtual, economic slavery (minimum wage, yeah right) with a weapon a bank gave them for opening a new account. Hmm…do you think there is a message in there someplace?
Nah…more of the same! More! So one day when I’m surrounded by a mountain of crap I can say, behold the value of my life! See my prosperity. I have more crap than you- despite living in a rubbish tip! Man, so lucky. Only a truly benevolent god of such astounding generosity could have given america to you. Hey wait a minute: you committed a genocide to rival the nazis and stalin to get it from people who helped your forefathers when they arrived and then enslaved a whole race of people to work it for you. So much honor there! Lets raise the flag and salute such good fortune and such a honorable way to live and such a glorious past. Very sad it all is….but cling to your flag and your god and all is well…because George the Shaved Chimp told you so!
“Why don’t you people get it: you system is great for those well employed and well paid. “
And where are you proposing is better off?
In Australia and England, the head of state there is a hereditary monarch, an 80 year old woman who has been in power for 55 years.
At least America gets to vote for it’s leaders, the shaved chimp will be gone in a couple, but your new leader will eventually be an inbred guy with really big ears.
Hmmm…
Go climb a rope!
Here’s some simple statistics for you…
In the year of the 2004 Presidential Election, the states that voted Republican received an average of $1.31 of Federal spending compared to every dollar they contributed. In comparison, the states that voted Democrat received a mere $0.93 cents for every dollar contributed.
Even if you bring the District Of Columbia into the equation – which would be ludicrous given that it’s the seat of government – the figure for Democrat-leaning states would be $1.23.
Need some more…
Out of the 32 states that were net beneficiaries of Federal spending compared to their contributions, 26 were Republican-leaning.
Eight of the top ten net beneficiaries are Republican-leaning, as are 17 of the top twenty.
Of course, that’s just the Presidential election, so let’s look at the House race in the same year.
Of the top ten beneficiaries, the states voted in 20 Republican representatives against 14 Democrats.
Of the top twenty, the figure was 55 Republicans to 43 Democrats.
And when you look across the board at beneficiary states, the figure was 103 Republicans to a mere 67 Democrats.
So when it comes to voting to get their noses in the Federal trough, let’s be really clear about which states get something for nothing and which parties those states lean towards when voting.
Sorry, a mistake…
And when you look across the board at beneficiary states, the figure was 119 Republicans to a mere 74 Democrats.
Hate to get the details wrong.
BTW, out of the top ten “donor” states, they elected 89 Democrats and only 60 Republicans and taking “donor” states across the board, you get 128 Democrats and 113 Republicans.
Anytime you feel like refuting these figures, you give me a call…
Funny how a small note like Steve Jobs saying Gore could win a race for the white house can clearly show that the American Goverment system is on the edge of total collapse
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So…
“In Australia and England, the head of state there is a hereditary monarch, an 80 year old woman who has been in power for 55 years.”
You may want to educate yourself before posting as you clearly would not know the difference between a head of state and a head of government if they joined you in the tub.
Parliamentary Democracy:
Parliamentary systems usually have a clear differentiation between the head of government and the head of state, with the head of government being the prime minister or premier, and the head of state often being an appointed figurehead or hereditary monarch with only minor or ceremonial powers.
Additionally there are broadly two forms of Parliamentary Democracies, of which England and Australia operate in different forms.
MW= “your” As in you are wearing “your” ass as a hat again sir.
Spartacus
Entertaining read. Mostly correct. I’d turf the swearing as it weakens your argument and makes you look a little less intelligent than you probably are. As for your comment on Bush only reporting to the ‘Almighty God’, obviously, if you did have your facts straight, you would know that God would not condone Bush’s rein of terror.
=[corrected]
Retard = IQ is 70 or less. One key element of mental retardation is a speaking disability. I only hear a Southern accent.
How do you pronounce ‘nuclear’ again?
How do you pronounce ‘nuclear’ again?
Or potato, for that matter.
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Danno,
My apologies, but these people make me so very angry and I don’t have a cat to kick.
I’m only too aware of where a moral or ethical interpretation of scripture would perceive the Reign Of Terrrrrrrror, which is why I’m certain the sparrow was sent by a higher power.
The sad thing is He/She couldn’t get an elephant off the ground (African or Indian, I’m not bothered), but then there would have been the risk of innocent civilian casualties, assuming that the WH press corps could be called either innocent or civilians, complicit as they are in giving this administration an unbelievably easy time.
“head of state often being an appointed figurehead or hereditary monarch with only minor or ceremonial powers.”
If you call the ability to dismiss the prime minister, to appoint a prime minister of their choice, to dissolve parliament, the role of commander in chief of the army, to declare war, to make peace to be “minor or ceremonial power” then I wonder what you’d call significant power.
By convention Queen Elizabeth II defers to the elected officials for all this stuff. However that is just convention not law. She does actually have these powers and could exercise them if she felt like it.
I have a suspicion she wouldn’t survive the ensuing revolution or coup, but that doesn’t change the fact that today she has all those powers.
So…
Just to confirm that your view regarding the bizarre nature of the UK’s constitutional arrangements: The Queen is nominally a constitutional monarch (i.e. with no real powers) and yet, because of the unwritten nature of the UK’s governmental conventions (there being nothing as codified as the US Constitution), the monarch has an unbelievable gamut of powers.
The extraordinary thing is that this system has stood the test of nearly 320 years since the so-called “Glorious Revolution”. Only in the UK could a system be developed and maintained using nothing more than a weekly cup of tea and a cucumber sandwich.
I don’t know where you’re writing from, but I remember watching the State Opening Of Parliament when I was a teenager before some of the more crazed aspects were removed. Watching a grown man wearing tights walking backwards both up, down and round various steep staircases – as his eyes were supposed to never leave the gaze of the monarch – was odd enough, but then you get into the whole Black Rod thing.
“Queen is nominally a constitutional monarch (i.e. with no real powers) “
As I said, that’s actually untrue. She has very real powers, but by convention (not law) does not exercise them. But if she wished to, she still could.
Interestingly as recently as 1975 her representitive in Australia dismissed a government against the will of the duly elected prime minister, so to say the powers have not been exercised against the will of the people for 320 yrs is untrue.
The American system has many more checks and balances than the English system.
That’s true even though you may not like the current President.
“The American system has many more checks and balances than the English system.”
First off there is no perfect democatic system, many would argue that a presidential democracy like in the US is a slow lumbering beast.
There are many advantages to a Parliamentary Democracy, it’s easier to pass legislation within a parliamentary system. It can also be argued that power is more evenly spread out in the power structure of parliamentarianism.
A premier seldom tends to have as high importance as a ruling president, and there tends to be a higher focus on voting for a party and its political ideas than voting for an actual person, based on their traits. [what a novel idea]
Also parliamentarianism is praised for producing serious debates, for allowing the change in power without an election, and for allowing elections at any time.
If we had a vote of no confidance it would have sent GWB packing in a new york minute and we would not be in the mess we are in today.
“First off there is no perfect democatic system, many would argue that a presidential democracy like in the US is a slow lumbering beast.”
It’s not just the presidential system that makes the US superior in this regard, It’s the constitution and the interplay of the 3 branches of government (Legislative,Judicial,Executive).
It’s also the federal system with the split of powers between state and local government within the framework of the constitution.
In England it all ends one place, with the Queen. ( I know revolution or coup the day she or one of her inbred descendants actually exercises their powers, but who needs a system with that built in). In any case, ignoring the Queen, all power is concentrated in the hands of the ruling party. That’s not good.
“There are many advantages to a Parliamentary Democracy, it’s easier to pass legislation within a parliamentary system.”
Which produces constant swings in policy with one party undoing the other’s work the next session.
The US system is slower and more lumbering by comparison, but it is more stable.
“focus on voting for a party and its political ideas than voting for an actual person”
Really, you think that’s the way it works? I think you’ll find that a most US voters vote along party lines no matter which chimp or flipflopper is put forward.
“If we had a vote of no confidance it would have sent GWB packing in a new york minute and we would not be in the mess we are in today.”
In England, In practice losing a motion of confidence comes from enough members of ones own party not supporting you or the government (as if they’re all with you, the vote of confidence will succeed), hardly a democratic process, since all that matters is whether your party thinks it or you are doing the right thing.
in the US, there is impeachment if he’s actually done something outside his powers, or of course elections every 4 years if you don’t like what they’re doing. Bear in mind GW was re-elected.
Finally if it’s the war in Iraq or Afghanistan you’re talking about, it’s Congress not the President which holds the war power. Then President can only initiate “police actions” which must be reviewed by Congress. Congress can stop him and force withdrawal of US troops. Why haven’t they? Hint: They don’t want to. They only want to appear to be trying to.
Interestingly as recently as 1975 her representitive in Australia dismissed a government against the will of the duly elected prime minister, so to say the powers have not been exercised against the will of the people for 320 yrs is untrue.
The dismissal of the Whitlam government by Australia’s Governor-General had very little to do with the Queen (some records say that she was completely unaware of what was happening, as the G-G pretty much has the power to act independently), but more than a little to do with the oddly hybrid mechanisms of Australian government which is a strange mix of the British parliamentary and that of a federal republic like the USA.
There is a darker side to the Whitlam dismissal which alleges that his dismissal was engineered by the US Government, due to Whitlam’s ongoing antipathy to the US presence at and domination of the Pine Gap signals intelligence station. These allegations receive little credibility from most historians, although – if you compare accounts of the CIA’s behaviour in Latin America at the same time (Philip Agee being a former case officer who broke the tradition of “omerta”) – there are undeniable parallels with the incremental erosion of Whitlam’s power and electoral popularity.
However, the point remains that – in the UK, at least (as opposed to any of the Commonwealth territories) – the balance between what is informally understood and formally possible has stood the test of over three centuries.
“very little to do with the Queen (some records say that she was completely unaware of what was happening, as the G-G pretty much has the power to act independently),”
Except that it was the Queen’s chosen representitive on the ground who did it, claiming the authority in the name of the Queen to do it. Whatever way you slice and dice it, it was done and was done in the name of the Queen.
“but more than a little to do with the oddly hybrid mechanisms of Australian government which is a strange mix of the British parliamentary and that of a federal republic like the USA.”
Nevertheless you agree that the Queen’s representative has the power to dismiss an Australian government, and has done so recently and could do so again. Same goes for the Queen and a British government.
it’s exactly that “Oddly Hybrid structure” you mention and reserve powers of the monarch in England that I’m calling attention to.
“antipathy to the US presence at and domination of the Pine Gap signals intelligence station”
Tinfoil hat time for you Sparticus.
“stood the test of over three centuries.”
Yet all you need is one hereditary nutter to change all that.
As we’ve seen the powers are not purely ceremonial and have been exercised recently. So you really have two options, trust that the hereditary monarch and their representatives will stay the heck out of politics except as a figurehead and rubber stamp of the will of the people, or change the system so that they don’t have the powers to interfere any more.
Its nice to have quaint institutions like a monarchy to remind you of your history, but the time for monarchs to wield any formal power is gone.
And I’m just agreeeing with you, it’s an odd country where informal convention merges with a kind of folk tradition.
The logical holes in the British system of government, much of which got bequeathed to the former outposts of Empire as they broke free, are truly gob-smacking.
BTW, I did use the qualification of “alleged” in regards to Pine Gap: I’m not saying I believe it one way or the other, but if you read “CIA Diary” by Philip Agee (assuming it’s still available), it’s hard not to raise a quizzical eyebrow about some of the parallels.
As for hereditary nutters, I think you’ll find the Brits have already been through that: George III is well known, but the Duke Of Cumberland (Queen Victoria’s uncle, IIRC) was practically a psychopath given some of the activities attributed to him and Edward VIII was prone to infantile baby-talk. With that much in-breeding, it’s surprising that they don’t all have Adam’s Apples the size of Delaware and that’s just the women.
Exclusive, Al Gore will run for president, a friend of a friend, working at Apple, will run his campaign.