“A pair of security researchers has picked January 2007 as the starting point for a month-long project in which each passing day will feature a previously undocumented security hole in Apple’s OS X operating system or in Apple applications that run on top of it,” Brian Krebs, yes, that Brian Krebs, reports for The Washington Post.
“The ‘Month of Apple Bugs’ project, currently slated to begin on Jan. 1, is being orchestrated in part by a security researcher who asked to be identified only by his online alias ‘LMH.’ This is the same researcher who in November ran the ‘Month of Kernel Bugs’ project. LMH’s partner in this project is Kevin Finisterre, a researcher who has reported numerous bugs to Apple over the past few years,” Krebs reports.
Krebs reports, “To the chagrin of some security experts, however, LMH declined to give affected vendors advance noticed before posting evidence of kernel bugs on his Web site last month. Eleven of those kernel bugs were related to Apple software and applications, including a serious security hole that prompted a software update from Apple just two weeks later. As with the kernel bugs project, Apple will be given no advance notice with the Month of Apple bugs, LMH said in an interview conducted over instant message.”
Krebs reports, “LMH said that while his upcoming project had the potential to at least temporarily make security more tenuous for the average Mac user, he believes that in the long run the project will improve OS X security. ‘Right now, many OS X users still think their system is bulletproof, and some people are interested on making it look that way,’ LMH said.”
Full article here.
MacDailyNews Take: Which Mac OS X users think their systems are bulletproof? No one we know. Most of us simply know for a fact that Mac OS X is vastly more secure than Windows. Hopefully, “LMH” finds something of value with which Apple can work and his irresponsible method of posting them before notifying Apple doesn’t cause any damage. Judging from past performances, we’re sure Krebs is fairly drooling over the possibilities, real or imagined.
Related article:
Re: Brian Krebs’ reporting on supposed MacBook Wi-Fi exploit – August 04, 2006
Hopefully this will be good for OS X security, but it just seems to reek of a publicity ploy for these people – always riding on other people’s coat tails.
be happy that people are willing to do this for Apple!!
Maybe someone should hack his personal information, and disclose such without warning.
This just sounds malicious.
All public good is obviated by these tactics.
I just shot my Mac in the face (by accident).
Nope. Not bulletproof. Why did my lawyer just run screaming from the room?
On the last OS security story, Brian Krebs proved to be a hack writer who doesn’t know technology and can’t be bothered with little things like accuracy or research.
Let’s see how he handles this next piece.
If these exploit rumors keep going around, we should call it the Krebs Cycle.
Rather than reporting a crime, the Washington Post intends to inform criminals all houses whose doors and windows are left ajar. So much for ethics in journalism.
At least Apple has advance warning of the Month of Bugs. If I were them I’d put a rotating 24/7 team of patch developers and PR spokespeople on duty during that month.
Take anything this Krebs character reports with several grains of salt.
Irresponsible, gutless coward. LMH have the nuts to use your real name if you’re going to do something that lays open the vulnerabilities for many people, no matter the OS. Your methods are wretched, the means do not justify the ends. Unless the end you’re intending is to cause undue harm to others. To you it may seem a trifle inconvience, but if a serious problem were to happen to someone’s sytem due to your irresponsible action it may lead to more than a broken computer system. Sensitive information lays within our computers. Have you ever heard of identity theft, it’s whole possible through our systems. I’d rather be shot.
Fucking asshole.
Now does anyone know how to contact him so I can forward this to him.
What?
I thought this was an article on aphids.
If Krebs has any journalistic integrity and competency, he should publish a comparison of Microsoft versus Apple OS exploits, failures, and hazards and quantify them. A rigorous and detailed comparison of Microsoft and Apple should provide the public with more useful information and help people make a truly informed decision.
Hopefully Krebbs will have learned from the mistakes he made with the MacBook airport security issue when he failed miserably to check out what he was reporting on…
Anyway, this kind of activity is pointless. Why don’t they just report the issues they discover to Apple? Or have they something to sell and need the ‘WOW GEE LOOK OSX SECURITY HOLES’ press…
And by the way, look at the fscking inane comments from WinTrolls on that blog…
LMH, like so many others in the security business feel they have the right to force companies to fix bugs by exposing them without notice, putting the rest of the public at risk.
Whether they like or not bugs happen and private companies should be given the chance to fix them in their own time. I’m a software engineer and I know It can take some time to do a fix correctly not just a bodge job (Microsoft take note).
LMH may be a great programmer and thinks he knows everything but the fact is he has no idea what it will really take to fix the bug. Any idiot can find a bug, fixing it without any knock on’s is the real business (Microsoft take note).
Apple is one of those companies that does not communicate their security status unless they have to. The fact that LMH may not get a response in the time he expects doesn’t mean Apple haven’t taken onboard what he has said and that they are not working on a fix. I suppose he feels rejected when he see’s that empty mail box.
For god sake if you’re gonna contribute do so, don’t demand! otherwise go get a real job!
Rant over… Sorry. : )
p.s. I also hate the fact that they rate companies based on how quickly it takes to fix bugs. It takes as long as it takes!
If all these reported security holes are plugged with 10.5, what then? Apple sells more copies of Leopard. When Microsoft’s Vista suffers zero-day exploits this will be dismissed as Windows funtioning normally and as expected. People generaly expect more from Apple and less from microsoft. Same ol’ dance.
‘LMH’s irresponsiblity is actually supported by Microcrap to slow down Apple
How much you being paid, BOY ??!! Too ashamed of using your own name, BOY ??!!
What, nothing to say, BOY ??!!
I quess MS weasles (no offense to the weasle genre) are beginning to come out from under their rocks
meatofmoose beat me to it. I don’t think 10.5 will be bullet proof, but my guess is that most if not all of LMH bugs will be fixed. Leopard will have its own set of problems. I think Leopard will be ready for WWDC rendering LMH’s “discoveries” moot.
I’m starting something similar, “the Decade of Win Bugs” I hope I can get to all of them, that’s not a lot of time!
MW = lived
oh, I thought it said livid…
About time MDN revealed its identity too…
My buddy with a G5 iMac doesn’t think his is bulletproof after 10.4.8 fried the contents of his hard drive. “This is why I moved away from windows” is what he said.
Had to bring the drive over to me so that I could re-partition it. It wouldn’t even mount in diskutility on my G5 PowerMac, but did against MacBook. Diskwarrior couldn’t see it either.
Fair enough.. we’ve just had 5 years of windows bugs, and about to get another 5. One month of Mac bugs ought to cover it.
A little short-term notoriety in exchange for potential long-term vilification.
Not a trade-off I’d be willing to risk…
MDN, mine is bulletproof.
>”I’m starting something similar, “the Decade of Win Bugs” I hope I can get to all of them, that’s not a lot of time!
“
Decade? Ha, ypu mean millennium!
I don’t care if they have a “year of bugs” report on Mac OSX. I still don’t have any malware on my Mac, regardless of how much they report that Macs are virus prone or have holes etc. The facts remain the same…. I am and have always been virus free.
Lame FUD
By posting information about these security holes before telling Apple and giving them a chance to fix them, this irresponsible SOB is actually making us, the Mac using community, more insecure. I wonder if he could be vulnerable to a lawsuit if it were proven that his “leak” of this information led directly to a hacker causing some real harm.
I followed the MOKB (Month of Kernal Bugs) with some interest because LMH (Little Mac Hater?) threatened to disclose some “zero day” Mac vulnerabilities. He/She/It did, but none were really of any consequence. Most of them were only exploitable for local users of the system, so they are more of a PITA for Mac system admins than for the average user.
I actually think its a good thing that these bugs be identified and fixed, but it is clear that this LMH person really has a chip on he/she/its shoulder about the Mac and Mac users. Also, this person is pretty juvenile about it. If they really wanted to help, they would report the bugs to Apple first, instead of potentially putting users at risk. Maybe his father used to beat him/her/it?
Devils Advocate – Many have tried to tell Apple of problems only to be mistreated by Apple. The alternative was to go public and let the masses decide, unfortunately that is now the first step instead of the last step.
I’ll wager that this little stunt will make Apple security look better, as not one of the bugs found will be exploitable remotely. People who count security updates as proof that Mac OS X has “holes” don’t understand that almost all of said “holes” require the attacker to have access to the machine. In short, I don’t think there has been one single vulnerability found in OS X that would allow a remote, automated attack, of the kind so common in Windows.
I’ve shot my iMac at least three times and it deflected every bullet, so yes, I think Macs are bulletproof. Should I not use anecdotal evidence to form my opinion of all things of a particular class or category?
Apple credited ‘LMH’ as the reporting source for one of the patches in its most recent Security Update.
So apparently you can’t really honestly say that Apple has “mistreated” LMH or ignored him and his bug reports. In fact, it proves that they are paying attention, because they regularly credit bug contributions on the Security Update Notices they publish.
So what is the chip on your shoulder, LMH?
You didn’t like the way some Mac users treated Brian Krebs? Or George Ou? Or the Maynor/Ellch guys? You didn’t like the way some people behaved, so you decided to start the Month of Kernel Bugs to announce Zero-Day flaws and force everyone to pay attention.
So let’s look at the logic here – despite any protest you might put up, you cannot defend these actions.
So if I don’t like the way some bloggers (like LMH) publish zero-day exploits, I think I’ll start a “Month of Blog Bugs” campaign that will point out flaws in the various blog sites allowing people to hack in and delete accounts or compromise their passwords.
And this would be ok, because your stance is that it’s fine to put EVERYONE in a class of people at risk in order to punish the smug or crass behavior of a few. What an incredibly shallow, short-sighted, emotional and illogical process of thinking you have there, LMH.
It almost makes one hope that LMH’s Mac Bugs cause someone, somewhere a serious financial loss, and that said individual (or business) decides to ascertain LMH’s identity and sue his pants off.
Interesting. MDN, and others, have gone from – “Macs are completely free from bugs, viruses, malware, etc., etc.” to
“… vastly more secure than Windows…”
Could it be that the decline in Mac security and quality is running full speed into total decline and ultimately, exactly like Windows?
Whatever… it’s inevitable so get ready, my friends.
I shot at my Mac 20 times but it seemed to move at incredible speeds to avoid it.
But then, I infiltrated it through my portal through a Parallel universe.
I’m in and it’s only a matter of time…
effwerd…. you half to use hollow-point bullets against the iMac. Simeple 38’s won’t do it.
*simple
MDN word is READ, as in I should actually read my post before submitting it.
LMH is a coward hiding in the shadows. But I guarantee that if he causes me, as a Mac user, to be damaged my attorney will be sending a subpoena to Krebs demanding the identity of his sources so that we can sue. Are Krebs and his cowardly buddy ready for a few thousand such lawsuits?
Don’t these folks have anything better to do in January…like pay their holiday credit card bills or something?
Yawn. Slow news day i guess.
Zeke:
I never thought of that. Could they be held liable in a court of law? Has a precedent been set?
m
This guy is a pu$$y. This should be far from legal.
Lets see someone post all the security flaws this guy has in his house and well see who can break in and kill him first.
1.) upstairs window does not close all the way
2.) garage door code is 1928
3.) basement window will crack under 10lbs of pressure to left side
This guy is a pu$$y. This should be far from legal.
Lets see someone post all the security flaws this guy has in his house and well see who can break in and kill him first.
1.) upstairs window does not close all the way
2.) garage door code is 1928
3.) basement window will crack under 10lbs of pressure to left side
4.) his credit cards are in the kitchen cabinet on the right side of the fridge.
If people posted stuff like this on the internet, or anywhere I am sure they would be arrested, or a law would eventually be created to make it illegal, is software and electronics any different?
the answer is no.
*sorry for the double post, MDN blew up in the middle of writing this.
They’ll probably be pointing out security risks such as “giving someone your admin password and unrestricted access to your computer could lead to data loss” or “there’s a bug in 10.2 that has STILL not been patched by Apple”
No, I don’t think that OSX is iron clad secure, ANY computer that is “used” for anything is by it’s very nature less secure than one sitting in a box unopened. BUT, if they’re going to rile up everyone, I’d rather it be for “new vile adware that installs while OSX is SHUT DOWN” and not “under the exact right conditions with my ear close enough to the wall and you’re yelling out your ip address and password, i can break into your wireless network…if you have security turned off… and give me that password too…
Why doesn’t this guy use his brain and work out a contract to show his stuff to Apple and make some money for doing it.
Doh!!
“Many have tried to tell Apple of problems only to be mistreated by Apple.”
Mistreated by Apple in this case may mean,”didn’t get my anus lubed orally”, or “claimed to had found the bug internally so the bastards won’t give me credit”
I’ve submitted bugs to Apple and when they come back “Duplicate” it’s not an attack on my character and I’m not so full of myself as to believe I’m the god of bug-finding. These guys on the other hand…
Seriously, how can Apple MISTREAT a bug reporter?
“I reported a possible security risk in the way Keynote handles URL’s and Apple came to my job, cuffed me with a sqid, stripped my clothes on the way to the elevator, and then, in plain view of shocked riders berated my haircut! Soon, I was whisked away to my home, (which had already been ramshackled) to force me to watch as they ramshakled it some more for good measure. Then, they urinated down my chimney, propped my front door open with a ceiling fan and drew vulgar caricatures on the doorjambs with green ketcup using an oxo spatula.”
Was it something like that?
Who funds this guy.? MS? Or Symantec?
Wrong Again–you are just that.
“(which had already been ramshackled)”
SB – ransacked.
Vulnerability does not equal exploit.
Exploit does not equal dangerous compromise.
Windows security does not equal Mac OS X security.
Mac OS X is more secure because of its superior design. It is less vulnerable to whatever “holes” do exist because it is a multi-user system by design, and what a hacker can do with such a hole is very limited. Mac OS X will not be overly targeted for even the lame and harmless “concept” malware threats, because Windows is an infinitely easier target for hackers. All of this attention just makes me feel MORE secure using Mac OS X, because apparently, this is the best all of these pseudo- “security experts” can do. TALK about security vulnerabilities instead of demonstrating how one might work as a exploit. In the rare case when it is demonstrated, it ends up being something like that wireless “card” exploit that did not use Apple’s built-in wireless or its driver.
Wish it were so,
You do realize that if this second month of ‘please buy my Mac OS X anti-virus software’ bullshit creates one malware exploit in the wild, these stupid bastards would have to find 120,000 more holes to catch up to the Windows horror story?
Keep wishing, it’s not going to happen.
just looking for attention and popularity.
should do this in February as it’s the shortest month
In my opinion, this is what we shall see on February 1:
1. A few exploitable holes which Apple will fix.
2. A bunch of hackers doing their very best to bring OS X down, and trying to equate the few vulnerabilities they find to Windows’ massive number of vulnerabilities, saying that OS X is just as open to malware as Windows.
3. People who are thinking of switching who may find themselves convinced by these Windows fans spouting their wishful thinking.
In the end, these haters are doing us a favor. Whatever they find, I am convinced Apple will fix and make OS X even more secure. This will also greatly reduce their own argument that OS X is only secure because no one bothers to try, since Windows has something like 97% of the market. In all reality, I have had a Mac for going on ten years now and have never really had a problem.
Sob sob, Some hacker is targetimg my invincible Mac, sob sob, rather than do something useful like load antivirus on it, sob sob, I’ll complain on an Internet forum how irresponsible the guy is, sob sob, that’ll stop him, sob sob, and make My Mac invincible again, sob sob.
can these idiots be sued? class action perhaps?
“just looking for attention and popularity.”
And, sadly, the entire month of Jan bugs won’t get them even one more iota of “poon tang”.
popularity indeed!
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Here’s the way I look at this…
If a person, or group of persons, were to document and precisely note several ways to rob a bank and get away with it, then post that information for people to use, then several theives use that information to rob the banks, then I’m fairly certain those individuals (those who posted the ways to rob a back) are guilty of conspiracy to commit theft. They can be arrested and convicted and sent to prison for several years.
Now, if a group of persons (“LMH”, Kevin Finisterre, Brian Krebs, and the Washington Post in general) post ways to break into people’s Macs, then hackers break into several peoples’ (or companys’) Macs, then steal valuable information — those same posters should be guilty of conspiracy to commit theft. If they exploits they report are utilized to commit crimes then they should be held just as accountable as those who help people exploit physical crimes. The theft of valuable business data or even identiy theft is a real crime. Providing the explicit means to do that crime should be so too.
IF (huge IF, I know) any crimes are committed utilizing the information provided by these people — are there any District Attorneys out there willing to go after them? I certainly hope so.
Anyone willing to take this on if it happens?
“fairly certain those individuals (those who posted the ways to rob a back) are guilty of conspiracy to commit theft. “
You’d be wrong. Conspiracy requires an agreement to commit a crime, intent to commit it, and an overt act in furtherance of it. Merely publishing a “How To” manual or set of instructions about anything or providing the tools or services used to further a crime wouldn’t, without more, qualify.
E.g the author of a book on lockpicking is not a criminal if the knowledge learned is used in a crime, nor is the seller of lock picks. The rental car company clerk is not a criminal if he rents you a car that you use as a getaway car in a bank robbery, the phone company are not criminals if you use their products to communicate to set up a robbery, home depot are not criminals if you buy a pry bar from them and use it in a burglary.
This is a good, and I’m glad they’re doing it.
Like most people that actually know something about software, I am aware of the fact that Mac OS X will have literally thousands of vulnrabilities. It’s inevitable.
If these guys find a few and Apple patches them up, then OS X will be the stronger for it.
BTW they have no obligation to notify Apple in advance. Shadowself is somewhat deluded there. In the long term they are doing apple a massive favour, wipe your tears, and get over it.
I think it is about time to prove Apple wrong and all the salesman at the Apple stores will eat their words when they see the security problems with MAC. I was just on a message board that had at least 30 “old-school” mac users all telling a few newbie mac users not to worry about spyware and viruses. The exact words they used were the ones you say mac users do not utter. They said things like “invulnerable” and “impossible” when asked about viruses and spyware affecting a mac. I personally was told by a VP at Apple that there are no known viruses that are affecting macs at this time, when I was at a grand opening of a local mac store. I am sick of the lies and the bull$h)t mac commercials claims about how they are so much better than a PC. I use both and have since the days of the first macintosh computers. I prefer Mac for what I do but it still makes me very angry to see the tactics Apple uses to sell their products. The tipping point for me was when Apple was notified that the Ipod was the worst electrical component for the environment and when they saw the results of the study they did nothing to change. The next year rolled around and who was at the top of the list for worst again? Apple! Unlike all the other companies on the list Apple did nothing to improve. I want to see that in a mac commercial!
I’m pretty sure cell phones are a lot worse for the environment than iPods if the criteria is disposable electronic devices = environmental problem. Think about it.
Why so upset about Apple advertising the Mac? I think Microsoft’s marketing is a lot more deceptive than Apple’s. I’ve never seen a Microsoft product that lived up to the marketing hype.
“I personally was told by a VP at Apple that there are no known viruses that are affecting macs at this time, when I was at a grand opening of a local mac store.”
That’s because it’s true. There are no known viruses “at this time”. When there is a virus, it will be the first one.
“Ipod was the worst electrical component for the environment”
Was that by greenpeace? They have been known for gaming their numbers and using specific stats to try to make Apple look bad. Now THERE’s a group of people I’d like to see switch to Windows…
“they are doing apple a massive favour,”
MASSIVE favour would be to tell Apple about it directly. I wouldn’t even say it’s a small favour because many of the vulnerabilities are probably already known by Apple and hasn’t been fixed because the attack vector is “needs physical access to the computer” or “needs root access to the computer”. They’re doing themselves a favor because everyone wants to be known as “the first guy that cracked the mac”. So much for security-through-obscurity, eh?
“They’re doing themselves a favor because everyone wants to be known as “the first guy that cracked the mac”. So much for security-through-obscurity, eh?”
First guy to crack a Mac? That honor’s long gone.
Have you ever noticed how it is only the trolls like Sob and Macuser 107 say that OS X is invincible? The windows users think it is better than us Mac users!
Bugs bugs everywhere. Come to Vista and enjoy the bug-free experience. Welcome to the social.
I don’t give a sh*t what these losers claim to find. They can try to hack into my Mac any day of the week…so come and get me. Since OS X is obviously so buggy you shouldn’t have any trouble then right? I’m waiting…
Most of us simply know for a fact that Mac OS X is vastly more secure than Windows.
Mac OS X is more secure because of its superior design. It is less vulnerable to whatever “holes” do exist because it is a multi-user system by design, and what a hacker can do with such a hole is very limited. Mac OS X will not be overly targeted for even the lame and harmless “concept” malware threats, because Windows is an infinitely easier target for hackers.
LMAO… this is the funniest shit I’ve heard in a very long time. I know you’ve been brainwashed pretty deeply by Ol’ Stevie Jobs, but seriously, Mac more secure? If you honestly believe that, you can’t possibly claim to know a damn thing about computers, Mac, Windows, or otherwise. As it is, Windows is FAR MORE secure than Mac. People just don’t bother attacking Macs, because it ain’t worth anyones time. Why spend your time digging exploits in an OS that has ~3% worldwide global penetration, when you can target an operating system that people actually use?
Imagine two kids. Mac and Win. Mac grows up in a Lysol household, his mom disinfecting absolutely everything before he touches it. Kid never gets sick. Fair enough.
Win grows up in a comparatively sane household, and as such, he gets minor colds throughout his life, the flu once or twice, ya’ know, what all young ones go through. Fair enough.
Thirty years later, Mac and Win go on a plane to London, to meet some relatives. A guy standing behind Win and Mac coughs. In fact, he hacks one up real good. Win doesn’t notice. Neither does Mac. An hour into the flight, Mac starts coughing. Thirty minutes after that, Mac runs to the bathroom, and starts coughing up blood. The plane eventually lands, and Win gets out, and waits for Mac. Finally, he sees Macs dead body being removed from the plane on a stretcher. A post mortem examination concludes that Mac died from the common cold. Win is fine, save for a runny nose the next day.
So you see, Mac isn’t more secure than Windows. In fact, Mac has built up virtually no immunity to viruses, spyware, exploits, etc. All Mac ever had was some friggin lysol. And every percentage of marketshare that Mac gains, is a little more lysol leaving the can.
Well, Jedi Master…you certainly convinced me. Bulletproof arguement. Let me guess……you are a IT pro aren’t you?
Jedi Master… That’s funny and pathetic. Explain why there is not even ONE Mac virus in the wild that actually causes any harm, versus Windows with hundreds of thousands. It’s not because it’s not worth the effort; it’s because Windows is so much easier to hack. When real world evidence suggests that Mac OS X is LESS secure than Windows (or even that Mac OS X is ONLY ten times MORE secure than Windows), I’d be happy to admit that I should worry about Mac OS X security.
Your analogy should go like this… Imagine two kids. Forget about Mac; Mac is relatively healthy. Win is the “boy in the bubble.” Win needs to be protected by layer upon layer of anti-sickness security.
That’s the difference between Mac users and Windows users. Worrying about security is a way of life with Windows users, by necessity. I know, because I use a Windows XP laptop for work. Money and time are spent installing, running, and updating security software. Mac users don’t think about security constantly and can therefore get more work (or play) done, not to mention save a lot of money on unnecessary software that just bogs down the computer. To use another analogy, I know Mac Cow Disease is out there, but I don’t think about it every time I eat a burger or steak.
I hate morons like that “Zune Tang” and “jedi master”. Unless they’re joking,
They’re damn PC nerds who needs to be taught a few things about real computers.
“Bugs bugs everywhere. Come to Vista and enjoy the bug-free experience. Welcome to the social.” I mean come on, what is this based on? I have an old G3 Indigo iMac running 10.4.6 and I haven’t had to force restart it once.
I have to deal with PCs at school and it is frustrating, they either won’t boot up or freeze when you’re in the middle of something. Plus, the PCs take 5 minutes to boot up and my iMac takes around 40 to 50 seconds to bootup (I’ve timed it.)
“As it is, Windows is FAR MORE secure than Mac.” What is this based on? Nasty PC nerds would hack Mac OS X, but it takes too much time, and if they do get around to developing the virus, Apple patches the security hole by then which renders the virus useless. And that us Mac people are brainwashed by Steve Jobs? What a joke! If anybody is brainwashed, it’s PC nerds. I make my own thought and decisions, not what somebody like Bill Gates tells me in a press conference.
@Hywel –“My buddy with a G5 iMac doesn’t think his is bulletproof after 10.4.8 fried the contents of his hard drive.”
I’ve updated many G5’s iMac & other to 10.4.8 no problem. Did you unintentionally move any folders out of place so that it just wouldn’t boot due to paths to needed info being destroyed? Not the disk physically being fried? I’ve had switchers who have their normal user side set as the System Admin go in and move important folders into other places, or attempt (and sometimes succeed at throwing stuff out. (Why, I and they didn’t know, but they did it).
Now I always set up an Admin side for people and tell them to stay out and not mess around there, then give them a separate user side for normal use. Keeps temptation and accidents at bay.
Seeing as how I’m not a fag like LMH, I’m going to post my opinion up on here WITH my real name. How did this get all MAC vs PC anyways? It’s inevitable that no OS for any computer will ever be totally secure. I’m a Windows user. I build my own computers, add my own little customized versions of Windows products on there, throw up a sick firewall and anti-virus program, and I’m done. The entire process, from start to finish, takes about 4 hours. I can build an excellent computer that would blow any OEM manufactured PC out of the water for a lot less. You ever try and build your own MAC? I have and let me tell you…Go to Apple because they practically force you to buy OEM. That’s just cost. Who cares about that? We should be talking about security. OK. It’s not impossible to hack a MAC. It’s SURELY not impossible to hack a PC with Windows on it. It all comes down to what you use your computer for. I can see people who want to edit music and video and producing their own shit go to Apple and buy some awesome hardware. I can see people who want to do some serious gaming, coding, 3D modeling, etc… go to NewEgg and grab up some parts and build a beauty. Windows based PC’s are more suited to a wider array of people than MACs are. To me, I know I can do ANYTHING on my PC. If it needs some more RAM, a new GPU, or a new CPU then I get one and I’m done with it. MACs were and will be geared toward a more specified group of people. People who’re wanting to do more of a certain thing. That all does not include normal end-users. I’m talking real end-users. The kind who don’t know the difference between kernel and a kernel of popcorn. To those people I say, try a MAC. Don’t try to be one of the big boys, just check your MySpace and be silent. To those people who want real power, try a PC. You’ll be more vulnerable, yes. But I have a few nuggets of knowledge why and how to deal with it. A Windows based PC is more vulnerable because it’s used by WAY more people who A)Know exactly what they’re doing and B)Don’t know shit and fuck things up and don’t know it. Both type of people can be just as destructive. To protect against both, get AVG, Firefox, and use common sense and you will never have a problem. It can’t be held against people who make software for PCs that know nothing about coding. If MACs had the same amount of A + B users PCs had this outcome would be similar for both. And that’s no bullshit. With PC you got a million guys kicking at a stone wall and with MAC you got a hundred. Who’s wall would go down faster? Well, MACs may not need the “snipers” us PC users got but we can do more, are more diverse, and are more potentially powerful than you. Think about what you need to do and make your decision. All I can say is go Windows PC unless you’re and extreme geek. Then we all have to bow down to Linux in that field…