“Apple Computer, maker of the iPod music player, is suing Creative Technology, raising the stakes in the legal dispute over competing devices,” Bloomberg News reports. “Apple claims Creative Labs, the U.S. division of Creative Technology, infringes four patents in its hand-held digital players. The suit was filed in a Wisconsin District Court on May 15, the same day Creative filed a lawsuit and a trade complaint against Apple.”
“Creative filed a complaint with the U.S. International Trade Commission seeking an order to block imports of the iPod, most of which are made in China. A lawsuit the company filed against Apple in District Court in San Francisco is likely to be put on hold while the trade complaint is heard,” Bloomberg reports. “The iPod controls 77 percent of the U.S. market, compared with less than 10 percent for Creative.”
Full article here.
Hoo said they wanted a war?
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I’ll see your patent infringement suit, and raise you four more.
Getting hot in the game, isn’t it? Sure you don’t want to fold, Mr. Hoo?
CRY “HAVOC” and let slip the dogs of war!
Serves em right.
There’s no fool like an old fool.
Or a young fool.
Or a Hoo fool.
This is how patents are used these days, sort of like nuclear weapons. It’s a mutually assured destruction sort of approach where if you use your patent against me, I’ll use my patents against you.
MW: feeling
the irony of it all
…
can I trademark the pause before I do something?
MW:Feeling …
Steve Jobs always disliked Creative.
Creative bought 3DLabs, which made awesome 3D video cards, but wouldn’t but out a Mac version or driver.
So we 3D Mac users hated them too because we were stuck using lame gamers cards for Lightwave and Maya.
I hope Apple tears them a new asshole.
By the way superduper sucks, I can say that because I beleive in free speech and MDN doesn’t. Consider using Tor and deleting your cookies to prevent censorship, right or wrong, we all have the right to judge.
Didn’t see THAT coming. Neither did Creative I bet. GO GET ‘EM STEVE!
“I hope Apple tears them a new asshole.”
Well, that certainly is a creative solution.
Apple/Steve Jobs to Creative: Fsck You!
I wonder which company will end up having to pay money to the other once all four lawsuits are considered…
Did Creative really think they were going to get away with their lawsuit? I bet this one is personal with Mr. Jobs.
1. Sue Creative.
2. Force them to file for bankruptcy.
3. Buy up their assets especially 3Dlabs.
4. Profit.
“Take Creative prisoner and then lead them down the stairs to our secret dungeon,” Steve said condescendingly!
Anyone know what those four patents are? We all know the “hierarchical menu” patent Creative is claiming, but Apple? I can think of two:
(1) The color white (cos white is the new black, although Apple is trying to make black the new black with the MacBook)
(2) The rectangular shape of the player
=)
Seriously, though, anybody know?
patentwhat?
I’m guessing it’s more internal parts and stuff. Perhaps the way it looks, too. Hell even the battery indicator on the latest creative is a bite from Apple.
karma
Man, I sort of feel sorry for them. NOW STEP ON THEIR NECK!
tongue wink
Wisconsin?
/oh yah? yah.
//no, I just think I’m gonna barf
It’s about time things were reversed.
http://getkickedoffaplanewearingthis.blogspot.com/
It’s unfortunate that it had to come to this. Many of you may know this, but
Apple used to integrate some Creative products into thier own, such as the
Apple CD-ROM multimedia Kit and the X86 boards that were available for
the Centris / Quadra 600 series and the PowerMac 6100 series. Those
products had integrated Creative sound chips. Granted, that was a
questionable time for Apple, but proof that the two companies once had a
decent business relatonship. Damn, I think I’m getting old.
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You don’t know the history of trade complaints against Apple, I do.
Thorin….
you are correct sir
also……I am right there with you….getting old
Wrong! Conan, what is best in life?
Conan: To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of the women!
“To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of the women!”
OK, I can accept that!! LOL
Yes! Yes! This is AWESOME! Man, I wish I could’ve seen the look on Sim Wong Hoo’s face when he got the word!
I doubted Creative had the funds to succesfully litigate one of these cases, and now their costs have doubled. Plus, I have a funny feeling that Apple’s patents are just a wee bit more valid than Creative’s dodgy “hierarchical menu” patent.
I think Apple had these patent suits drawn up a looooong time ago, just in case Creative decided to get cocky with their silly little patent. And I guess they did.
Smithers! Release the hounds.
Hey, does anyone remember when they used to refer to Apple as “beleaguered”? How things change…
Lets Get Ready to Rumble
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You all must have come down in the last shower to be suprised at the tactic of countersuing when faced with a lawsuit, or to regard it as a new brilliant strategy.
And soon Creative will be 20,000 B Leagues under the sea.
That’s what you get when you try to sort out your blackmail ahead of time – your target gets a chance to prep instant retaliation.
I LIKE the idea of Apple suing them into bankruptcy and buying their ashes for a song – that’ll give Apple some incentive to use the sound technologies they would then own. Yo! Intel! We’d like this One More Thing with our chipsets …
WTF was ‘Creative’ thinking?
Time to short some more.
MDN Magic Word: “months”, how many more before ‘Creative’ is no more?
in a way, this is sad, because objectively imho, Creative does make some of the nicest mp3 players, next to Apple. Personally I much prefer the all touch interface that Apple left behind for the click wheel, and I played a bit with the Zen Micro and the touch interface was actually quite nice. I can’t speak to the music management software, and of course I like iTunes and would not switch. But their engineers make nice quality players…just take a peek at Amazon…it is fairly impressive. Too bad Woo just didn’t remain peaceful and let his product catch on over time. I would rather Creative take share than Microsoft with their Xpod.
I love a good fight. This time Goliath will beat the heck out of David.
bet creative didn’t expect this….now they’re on the shit end of the stick
Beleaguered Creative
I’m starting to think that is the actual name of the company with all the headlines MDN has with that in it!
in 20 years, there will be only 2 jobs left in the US….
Lawyers
Lawyers’ IT guys.
which are you?
my patent is bigger than your patent!
Hoo boy, this is gonna get messy.
Got the popcorn ready
If this is a war then Creative started it and now Apple will finish it.
In the immortal words of Slim Pickens SAC pilot character in “Dr. Stranglove” as he rode astride a nuclear bomb plummeting toward earth somewhere over the soviet union, “Yahoooooooooooooooooooooooo….!”
In the immortal words of Captain Woodrow Coll in “Lonesome Dove”, after administering a nearly fatal thrashing to a mean army scout, “I hate rudeness in a man. I won’t tolerate it.” Go get ’em, Steve.
Secret Recording of Steve Jobs Talking with Apple Legal:
HERE
Transcription:
————
Apple Legal: “We’ll agree to pay. We’ll tell him we need time to get the money together.”
Steve : “Wait a minute, do I get this right? You’re gonna play this creeps game?”
Apple Legal: “It will get us more breathing space.”
Steve: “So it might get somebody killed. Why don’t you let me meet with the son-of-a-bitch.”
I am fed up with lawsiuts…but this one I kind of like. Creative is so fundamentally bda karma so let´s bury them. In the ITworld there are three persons I really can´t stand ; Sim Hoo, Rob Glaser and Steve Ballmer, theyr´e all in the same categori
MDN word gave, as in creative finally gave up.
Creative is so gone with the wind.
They broke the status quo with patents.
This will eat all their cash if there is something left anymore.
” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”smile” style=”border:0;” />
Steve really deserves the Steve Jobs Award
You guys are on drugs.
Creative has a patent which specifically describes exactly the iPod interface. It’s not just for a heirachical menu, but for one used in exactly the same way it is in the iPod. that eliminates a lot of what you claim as prior art.
Why wouldn’t they try to enforce it?
If Microsoft cloned OS-X you’d be chanting how great it was that Apple was using it’s patents to go after Microsoft.
Software patents as a rule are F***’d up, many should never be granted. But then somone sucessfully patented the stick. So lets assume that’s not going to change.
If you have the legal right to demand competitor cease and desist from using a piece of technology that the patent office agrees with you that you invented, only a foolish businessman would not use it.
If the patent is weak, look for it to be overturned. More likely look for Apple to pay Creative money to go away, or a cross licensing deal to be made based on the counterclaims.
To say that this would kill creative is just silly. If Apple had a strong patent infringement case against them, they would have shot first.
This guys is a negotiating tactic, nothing more.
seriously ‘down’ how many ways can you form a menu to show:
Artists
Albums
Songs
Every player does that, so they should sue all of them.
How else can you sort CD info?
Musicians?
CDs?
Tunes?
These menus are common denominators to basic search functions to arrange our music. Creative should not be able to patent that.
MDN word enough: that’s enough already
since the ipod is what is keeping apple afloat they have a reason to be concerned.
Wis-cahn-sin? wunder why they filed it dere, ya hey.
My understanding is that the patent describes a “heirachical menu.” Can we talk prior art?
Macintosh OS 1-10
Apple II GS OS
Lisa OS
XEROX PARC OS
The fact that the US patent office gave Derivative this patent speaks volumes about the need for overhaul in that office.
Oh Rats. I forgot
NeXt Step
Jimmy: since the ipod is what is keeping apple afloat they have a reason to be concerned.
Uh, last I checked, Macs still provided more revenue than iPods.
Oh, and “Down…”? A hierarchical menu is a hierarchical menu. If such a menu existed previously for organizing anything, that’s prior art. Creative can’t just slap Artist/Album/Title on it and claim it’s an original idea. Apple can show hierarchical “drilling” menus going back decades before Creative filed their patent.
4 > 1
Apple is going to make the best sound cards evar!
This is what creative deserves.
The world is not these lawyers / companies playground.
for the several illigitimate reasons creative filed suit, Apple actually has a case.. creative is going to DIE.
DownInTheLastShower,
I’m sorry but you are the one who’s on drugs.
Creative’s patent obviously violates 4 of Apple’s patents. Apple has them by the balls and they know it.
So, yes, Creative’s patent is invalid. Creative will have to license Apple’s patents to stay in business.
Look for a mutual sharing of patents with Apple gaining Creative’s patent portfolio for the price of Apple’s lawyers’ retainer fees.
DownInLastShower, you don’t know the history of being on drugs…. I do.
DownInLastShower,
The fact that some boob at the patent office granted Creative’s patent doesn’t mean much. Patents have been ruled invalid many times by the courts becuase of patent office errors. Some of these errors are:
1. You cannot patent something that is intuitively obvious, like the wheel (or drop-down menus).
2. You cannot patent prior similar art, like drop-down menus.
3. You must enforce patent violations in a timely manner, not wait to see if the violator makes money with it. (Creative had a patent pending since 2001, but waits 5 years to enforce it).
In short, legally speaking, Creative is up a creek.
Tom Cruise, you’re right.
Zeke, the RIM case should be instructive to you then.
The patent is not for drop down menus, it’s for heirachical menus used in a particular way to navigate music. go look up patent 6,928,433 and actually read it before spouting an opinion.
The patent was awarded August last year. They’re hardly sittng on their rights.
For all those who drew my attention to the fact that the patent could be weak and might be overturned, I draw your attention to the original post where I said “If the patent is weak, look for it to be overturned.”
For those that spouted on how software patents are often granted for things bthey nver should be read the sentence “Software patents as a rule are F***’d up, many should never be granted.”
and finally to restate:
This is a negotiating tactic, nothing more.
Creative have Apple’s balls in that patent. It pretty much describes the iPod’s interface. Whether you agree that it was right to be granted or not is irrelevant in the short term. It was, unless apple can get it overturned, Creative can enforce it.
Sure it might be re-examined but even though RIM’s patents were almost certainly going to be be overturned, didn’t stop them having to pay out as a matter of business praticality.
For Apple it’s a high stakes game. If the case goes against them the patent becomes stronger and they’ll end up paying licensing fees to Creative on iPods.
If it goes badly for Creative, it’s likely they really havn’t lost very much.
I say good luck to Creative, most of Apple’s ideas came from somewhere else first. Apple did try to patent pretty much the same thing and had it rejected, but you can bet they would have gone after Creative if it were granted, so there’s no argument that says Apple is somehow a superior kind of company which doesn’t try to obtain and enforce the same types of software patents.
To close with a Dilbert quite which applies to a lot of people here: When did Ignorance become a point of view?