“The French National Assembly approved a digital copyright bill on Tuesday that will require DRM (digital rights management) developers to reveal details of their technology to rivals that wish to build interoperable systems. The bill could affect the FairPlay DRM used by Apple Computer Inc. in its iTunes Music Store and iPod music players, and Microsoft Corp.’s Windows Media DRM, used by rival French music stores Fnac.com and Virginmega.fr to lock downloaded tracks to particular music players,” Peter Sayer reports for IDG News Service. “Deputies voted to approve the bill, ‘Authors’ rights and related rights in an information society,’ by 286 votes to 193. The bill now goes to the Senate for a second reading [expected to begin in early May], and a vote, before it becomes law.”
Full article here.
“Apple has so far refused to comment on the bill or on analysts’ suggestions that the Cupertino, Calif.-based company might choose to withdraw from the French online music market rather than share the proprietary technology at the heart of its business model. Representatives for Apple France did not return calls Tuesday,” Laurence Frost reports for The Associated Press. “Under the bill, companies would be required to reveal the secrets of hitherto-exclusive copy-protection technologies such as Apple’s FairPlay format and the ATRAC3 code used by Sony’s Connect store and Walkman players. That could permit consumers for the first time to download music directly to their iPods from stores other than iTunes, or to rival music players from iTunes France.”
Full article here.
Earlier this morning, MacDailyNews reader “john” wrote us with an interesting idea. “The French can’t specifically force Apple to give up selling AAC files specifically, but it can force it to find a way to make its iPod [and iTunes Store] somehow interoperable with other [services and devices] in France. Apple could provide its French customers exclusively with a collection of its iTunes catalog in the MP3 format in addition to providing the same catalog in the AAC format (MP3’s with whatever DRM that may or may not be required as per the music labels desire, since the music labels seem to be ok with this new idea). And in the iTune’s download interface for French users only, allow they to choose whichever format they wanted- be it AAC or MP3. If Apple’s competitors wanted to sell files that worked seamlessly with the iPod, all they’d have to do is to provide those files in the MP3 format. Beyond that, everything else would remain exactly the same. In all the ways that matters, Apple would be in full compliance with the new French law, Apple’s competitors would still not have direct access to either FairPlay or the iPod, and there’d be nothing the French could do about it.
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not a big fan of the french
Apple could simply refuse to sell any old Jerry Lewis movies on the iTunes Music Store. Then the French wouldn’t buy anything from them, and the whole issue would be moot.
Wow the French really know how to chase technology out of town.
Apple will just leave the area, sorry, no more iTunes because WE’RE NOT SHOWING THE FRENCH HOW IT WORKS!
I fart in your general direction
^Common sentiment on this board. Its odd, because the French are so much like Americans. They’re both criticized for arrogance. And there is the whole matter of the French being responsible for helping the Americans gain independence from Britain.
If you look at the way that Emusic.com sells tracks it would be easy to see a way for Apple to get around this and put pressure on the labels.
If you look at the eMusic catalog and the iTunes catalog there is some overlap with eMusic selling mostly independent labels. eMusic sells all their songs in unprotected MP3. What would stop Apple from selling those songs the same way, and make the argument that they are complying with the law. The burden then falls on the labels since they are the ones preventing music from being sold without DRM.
Heyyy, come onnnn. I love de French. I mean, it’s like having a retarded little cousin — everybody loves them. Yeh-heh-hehesssss. Hey, listen, I don’t enjoy knocking the French. Really, they’re good people. I’m an American comic — it’s just my job.
No really, I enjoyed my time in France a few years ago. ‘Course, Paris smelled like downtown Trenton on a hot summer day. And I swear I was de only one who smelled like soap. But you know de old joke, ‘What do you call someone in France taking a bath? A tourist’.
Hey, I keed. I keed because . . .
I hate de French people with a passion!
YEH-HEH-HEHESSSSSSS! Bring it on, nerds, I got a million of them.
Very interesting idea “reader john”. The French gov might not like it, but if it satisfies the law, then they can’t complain. The people that’ll complain will be MS, Sony et al. They’re salivating over the idea of getting Apple’s DRM legally even if it is just for one country. If Apple pulls out of France, then MS can easily open up it’s drm as everyone else (other than Sony) is using it anyway. They’re not giving away any “secrets to rivals”. They have nothing to loose. Then they’ll own the French market.
My question is does this in any way come into play with osX and other apps on the mac other than iTunes? What about video downloads from ITMS?
The economic facts of the matter are that if France were to become a state of this union (heaven forbid!), it would be ranked 46th in GDP among our 50.
That’s right, folks.
France is a little old gray lady, and if she wishes to cut off her nose to spite her face in this matter, so be it. Apple can easily absorb the shock.
No, really . . . seeing all those French chicks with their unshaved pit hair brings back good memories for me.
They kind of remind me of a couple of lhasa apsos I used to date.
Nope. Sorry, John.
That proposed alternative would be letting the proverbial genie out of the bottle – “do it for one iTunes (regional) store, do it for all”.
Not gonna happen.
Conversely, Apple shuts down the iTunes France store. Then we all watch its customers start a Second French Revolution.
Watch how the angry voters (iPod owners) decide the outcome to all of this crap.
Am I missing something here, but isn’t the iTunes Music Store based in Luxembourg?
That means technically it’s not a French store and all the French consumers are purchasing songs from a foreign store. Of course the ‘French’ iTMS is only accessible to the French, but couldn’t Apple just open for example the Luxembourg store to the French and add specific French content to that store instead. Then the French would still be buying from a foreign store and Apple wouldn’t be affected by the new French law either.
What do you think?
why would any of us want DRM imposed on our music is beyond me
Puh-leeze, “duper”.
Wanna talk Normandy? We paid France back in many more American lives to keep ’em speaking French these days – and not German!
Uh…how exactly is MP3 with proprietary DRM any different from AAC with proprietary DRM? That is other than AAC sounds better at lower bit rates, and at least iPods support AAC with Fairplay, while virtually nobody is supporting MP3 with DRM.
3rdKidney,
I’ve emailed MDN’s take to Apple, just in case they’ve overlooked this possible ‘way out.’
VinitaBoy:
WRONG. Completely, totally, utterly!
Want to tell me which state in the union has a GDP greater than 2.2 Trillion dollars? None, not even California, not even my state, New York.
The facts are:
GDP of France is approximately $2.2 Trillion. GDP of the United States is $12.7 Trillion [both 2005 estimates]. California’s GDP is 13% of the US total [facts here: ]http://www.forbes.com/global/2002/0527/066sidebar.html]
Interestingly, the workforce of the US is approx. 149.3 million…. whereas the workforce of France is only 27.7 million.
Oh yeah… another fact for you:
Percentage below poverty rate in US: 12.3%
Percentage below poverty rate in France: 6.6%
Not so rosy now, is it? Get at least one fact right next time, instead of spouting off your prejudices. Typical…
Oh my God ! One more occasion for a bunch of hating ignoramuses to spew their inane ravings…
Good for France. Next stop Europe. Thank god someone has finally shown some sense. Big (American) corportations dictating where and when I can play the music I buy is not my idea of progress….
The only thing I remember about French innovation was the Can-Can
VinitaBoy
That’s funny, because the CIA World Factbook lists the GDP of France as $2.118 trillion. If that is #46 in your Union, the US economy would have a GDP of at least $100 trillion rather than the $12.7 trillion the CIA think it is.
So either you’re full of it, or the CIA are. Which is more likely?
I fail to see why forcing companies to make DRM interoperable can be a bad thing – if this was Microsoft DRM we were talking about everyone would think it was great. And as for the whole anti-french thing, just because in Europe we’re still allowed to think for ourselves rather than believe whatever Fox news tells us doesn’t make us bad people. Oh, and France has offered far more to Western culture than the good old US of A ever has – 70% of english words are derived from French. I’m a brit btw, but France is a great country with great people if you bother yourself to learn a bit of their language and respect their culture rather than walking round like you own the place treating it as it’s one big theme park put there soley for your amusement.
vive la difference
Written by Doxxic on AI:
Because who is going to get hurt when the law gets into effect? Not Apple. The unfairly priced business models, like PSP, XBox, music-by-subscribtion are, while Apple is going to change nothing and survive.
The misconception everyone on the net seems to make, is that because the iTunes store and the iTunes-iPod combination work together so well, each of them can’t stand on it’s own.
Well, they can. Easily. Laughingly. iTunes is profitable, iPod is profitable. And their each the best the planet has to offer in it’s category. That’s the difference with content/hardware combinations Sony and Microsoft have to offer.
You read it here: Apple is going to function as the example for Sony and Microsoft, in being an innovative company with a pricing system that is resistant to anti-kartel laws that benefit us, consumers, and will be applied everywhere.
“could affect Apple’s FairPlay DRM”
??
Given it was Apple, Sony and Microsoft the legistlators were talking about I think you can bet it will affect Apple.
“The facts are:
GDP of France is approximately $2.2 Trillion. GDP of the United States is $12.7 Trillion [both 2005 estimates]. California’s GDP is 13% of the US total [facts here: ]http://www.forbes.com/global/2002/0527/066sidebar.html]
Interestingly, the workforce of the US is approx. 149.3 million…. whereas the workforce of France is only 27.7 million.”
Which means that the workforce of France is less productive than the US.
No need to convert to WMA, ATRAC, etc. since these are proprietary formats.
All Apple needs to do is tweak their burn-to-CD utility in iTunes. Instead of actually burning to a CD, it would save it to hard disk as a standard non-proprietary CD audio file. Apple has done their part and complied with the law. If a non-iPod user wishes to convert the standard non-proprietary CD audio file to a lossy WMA, ATRAC, MP3, OGG, etc. file then that is their perogative. This may not be in the spirit of the law, but this would be within the letter of the law.
WITHDRAW. Simple as that.
Wait for French consumers to let the government know if they appreciate their stand.
70% of every other market is worth more than the Fr market in total. There is no law that directs Apple to sell into the French market.
I don’t recall the French directing Sony to make their VHS tapes play in a Betamax player. They are also not the only reseller of music so the monopoly is not there.
That law simply needs to be reworded to circumvent the MDN take/
“France Still Sucks”
Its not about paying back debt. My point is that the US and France hav ev been natural allies on several occasions. They’re often reviled in parts of the world for the same reason.
In short, they don’t like each other because they’re so alike.
Is this why Apple´s stock is dropping so much????
The other indirect effect of this law would be that would give French-based music portals more of an advantage against foreign based companies like Apple, Microsoft and Sony. The French government has a well documented history in passing laws that help national artists and media companies; for example, the French law that requires that a minimum of 50% of ALL music played on French radio stations be in French, as a means to “preserve French identity”. Such a law does not exist anywhere else in the Western world.
This isn’t French-bashing, this is a fact.
The socialist French are closet commies – they do not believe in the rights of creators.
Hank,
I’m sure it is the reason.
For example, this new French law is the main story in the BBC business news, and they talk about nothing but the problems this could cause Apple, and the fact that it could ‘spread’ to other countries.
I’m actually jealous. You guys are bashing France, when in fact, their gov’t has done something designed to make things better for their citizens. Why can’t our gov’t stand up to the crap the RIAA and MPAA dish out. Why does our gov’t instead pass a law like the DMCA?
DRM is not about copy protection. Its about vendor lock-in. And if you think that Apple would give up their DRM if the RIAA didn’t require it, you’re stupider than I thought.
” and there’d be nothing the French could do about it.”
Except pass yet another law.
We in the USA are perfect-how can anyone question it? Why, with our policies on global warming, war in Iraq, and our incrediblely liberal social policies toward the poor and minorities, not to mention being the envy of the world in emergency responses to disasters, how dare anyone take exception to us!!
People seem to have missed something else, as well. Microsoft dropped WMPlayer for Macintosh recently – wouldn’t this law require them to provide a player for Macintosh computers to play their files?
Or would the flip4mac software qualify?
This proposed law is so confused that it’s hard to make sense of the actual implications. The proposals have changed radically in the last week or so and will probably change a lot more before a final law is passed. I’ve followed this story as it twists and tuns and I now don’t know if it’s a good thing or a bad thing. Different reports contradict each other.
Apple might already be in compliance because it allows CDs to be burnt and re-ripped to remove DRM, so iTMS tracks can already be played on any player.
If the French insist that the DRM must be open to others, then I think the way forward for Apple would be to adopt a special standard in France and anywhere else that adopts similar laws. They should use AAC, which is an open standard which isn’t supported by many other players and they should adopt an open DRM system to add on to it. Then they can share the secrets of that DRM with anybody who they must, they will still keep AAC/FairPlay proprietary and the AAC/openDRM format won’t be able to be used on many other players, so they still lock in their customers, but into a standard that they can reveal to others without danger of losing their valuable secrets.
Somehow, the word French and the word lawmaker do not sound very well together in a sentence.
Eff France.
They have enough to worry about – militant Muslims, no work for the younger generation. Let them focus on the fact that they will most likely be completely overrun by unmwanted immigration.
Chris:
fsck off back to your racist world.
Bigot.
“Let them focus on the fact that they will most likely be completely overrun by unmwanted immigration.”
Uhhh, Chris — look around.
We’re being overrun, too.
Oh, and Charlie, I think I can speak for both Chris and myself when I say . . .
Ooooooooohhhh, we’re soooooooooo scared!
Abre los ojos, dipshit.
Zeke:
Ha, ha! WRONG WAY ROUND… dummy! The French are way more productive than we Americans. Despite your basic arithmetic being flat wrong, add to that the average working week in the US is over 40 hours and in France it’s 35.
They produce MORE in fewer working hours.
You people give American education a bad name. Do some research before posting inaccurate and factually untrue comments.
Just close the ITUNES store that services France, their politicians will cave when the public throws a fit. They always do. This isn’t racism, it’s just historical fact. Look at how many times the leaders of France have caved in to public demand in the past. It’s a given.
I think this is more likely to happen
That Sony, Microsoft, Apple and Real will all simutaneously pull out of the French market.
Why?
It’s not about interoperatability of the DRM, but the hardware requirements needed to do it.
Then of course all the licensing fee’s to use each others DRM’s will be passed on in higher songs costs.
Message to the French, AllofMP3.com.
Al Apple has to do is argue that when music is purchased legally from their store, that people have the option to burn a audio cd which can be imported into any other competitors music software and devices.
So Apple is not preventing interoperatability of their DRMed music with any other service because the lowest common non-DRMed method is still supported.
Except the files in MP3 format would have no DRM and the music labels will not let anyone sell music online without some sort of DRM. So I believe Apple will just pull it’s store from France and let France whine about there lack of music sales. Apple doesn’t have to do anything at all and they certainly won’t give the DRM key they developed fair and square to anyone, period. France can kiss online music sales goodbye as far as iPod compatible ones that is. So let the PtoP file sharing and piracy and black market begin in France. Viva la france! You’ve just started the biggest piracy party of music in your country. Congrats!
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Why are people complaining about this law? I like the idea of being able to convert WMA DRM songs to AAC/Fairplay. Now few people who were misguided to purchase “play for sure” player and WMA DRM songs can switch to iPod without losing all their songs coded in WMA DRM.
Apple and Record Labels may not like this law, but seem to me it is good for consumers.
Or, Apple can just simply withdraw the iTMS from the French market. My money says that’s precisely what they’ll do.
Can someone explain to me why it’s ok for Micro$oft to sell Office with proprietary file formats that will not interoperate with other Office-like systems in France, but Apple can’t use their DRM for the music? Or MS servers that close out other OS’s? Or Internet Explorer, with its horribly buggy “extensions” of the web standards, to force out other browsers? Or …
This law is garbage. Either require everyone to publish the formats or shut up.
Why would any company just walk away from revenue? Apple isn’t going to withdraw from France just because of this law. They’re likely going to fight it in court. Like MacDude points out, iTunes users already have interoperability options.
It’s hard to judge though since the media outlets are so vague about the particulars. I don’t know how accurate this is: “[…] the bill will force DRM manufacturers to reveal some details of their systems […]”
What really bugs me are the other implications of the law as described in these articles.
[…] it will also legalize the use of DRM in France. Today, CDs with a DRM function that prevents them from playing on some equipment are considered legally to have concealed flaws, and buyers have a right to legal redress. The bill will change that.
In addition, the bill will make it illegal to develop, distribute or promote P-to-P (peer-to-peer) software for purposes other than collaborative working, research purposes or the exchange of noncommercial works. In addition, if French Internet users are found to have traded illicit files using such software, they will face a fine of $46 per infraction for downloading, or $182 per infraction for uploading. The bill calls on the Council of State to determine what level of trading constitutes an infraction.
(My emphasis)
The first part is reasonable, I guess, since the DRM would have to be somewhat open in the first place. The second part is rather rude though. I’m no fan of P2P but this sounds awful. I’d hate to think what measures are allowed for non-payment, especially if something like this ends up in US legislation.
Wow, lots of good ideas amist the garbage.
1. The French contribution to the war of independance, a sample:
http://people.csail.mit.edu/sfelshin/saintonge/frhist.html
2. gzero said “French law that requires that a minimum of 50% of ALL music played on French radio stations be in French, as a means to “preserve French identity”. Such a law does not exist anywhere else in the Western world.”
When I was doing radio the CRTC (Canadian Radio and Telecommunications Commission) required that a 1/3 of the songs be of Canadian content. I suspect other countries have such laws to protect and promote their culture.
3. The peer to peer infractions are pretty kewl actually, if they beef up the penalties that will send people to the legitimate download sources.
4. The new law should work both ways, Fairplay and whatever crap the others use. A standard might be good, who knows but whatever this law will affect all DRM, which a lot of people don’t like (remember Sony’s attempts with DRM). The media focus is on Apple but it’s an attempt (probably not a good one) to deal with the copyright dilema of the digital age.
5. I still like Canada’s approach. It’s all legal, we are taxed for it when we buy hard drives and CD’s. Everybody pays, everyone can play.
Apple will simple come out with the:
iFry
Hey guys, back off the French. If they didn’t open up their proprietary deep fat potatoe frying technology McDonalds might not be around today.
So here appears to be where it stands:
a) Someone downloading an AAC file can burn a CD and re-encode into MP3 format. (A good idea posted above to encode to MP3 directly to the harddrive would circumvent the law)
b) iTunes allows MP3s that I rip from CD’s or DL from other stores to play on the iPod via iTunes. If there is DRM involved, those other companies will need to create tools to convert to MP3s without DRM. Apple just needs to allow music without DRM to play and by currently allowing MP3’s without DRM to play on iPods I don’t think that the iPod can legally be forced to play every frickin’ music format on earth. That’s just plain retarded to expect that.
Not sure what all the fuss is about as I can do both a) and b) now. Therefore, Apple already complies unless the ‘burning to CD and then ripping into non-DRM MP3 files’ needs to occur direct to drive instead (easy fix). As this CAN all be done now, I fail to see why Apple would need to panic at all.
Now I am getting back to eating my french fries thank you very much…
Cheers,
Viva Pomfrits de France
Daniel-san, what is, or was, called French fries in the US has absolutely nothing to do with France or any French.