Back on June 9th of this year, SteveJack wrote, “The time has come for Apple to ship a two-button scroll mouse standard.” Now that Apple has announced their newest mouse, the Apple Wireless Mouse, complete with one button (again), we revisit SteveJack’s opinion article.
“I have been a Mac user since The Beginning. I have used a one-button mouse, as per Steve Jobs’ decree, until mid May 2003. That’s a long time. Then, while in Best Buy, of all places, I picked up a Kensington Pocket Mouse Pro because I wanted an inexpensive mouse that would travel well in my backpack. And, of course, I liked the retractable cord that winds into mouse’s body via its “garage door.” After three weeks with it, I can safely say, the time has come for Apple to ship a two-button mouse with a scroll wheel standard,” SteveJack writes.
Full article in the MacDailyNews Opinion section here.
he speaks the truth
While we are making wish lists, add this one:
A TWO BUTTON TRACKPAD FOR PowerBooks/iBooks.
Yes, I know about control/click, but a right mouse click is so much faster and easier. Thinking diifferent includes adopting outside innovations if they improve the computing experience.
On the main subject, a 2-button scroll wheel mouse is pretty much standard everywhere in the computer world except Cupertino.
I love Apple, but the single button mouse really bugs me. And it is not really helpful to attract PC users either.
Why Steve? Why?
“Back on June 9th of this year, SteveJack wrote, “The time has come for Apple to ship a two-button scroll mouse standard.”
SteveJack has written a lot of dribble over the years – parcticularly on the now defunct MacWhispers. When is he gonna start writing that all his “rumours” were in fact lies and that he had no sources to speak of.
I am a happy one button user, always have been, always will be.
My left hand is always ready on the keyboard anyway, using option-click and control click, and for quick command S to save. So why do I want another button to confuse years of practice ?
If you want a two button mouse, go and buy one, why winge at apple for not making one ?
john: You’re confusing “Jack” with “SteveJack.” I’m actually the no-source Jack. So, this SteveJack mentioned here is innocent (of this charge), and certainly isn’t me. If you’re looking for a great place to beat up on me, there’s a terrific thread in the YourMacLife forums for just that purpose. Enjoy.
On topic: I also remain baffled by the sustained Apple commitment to the 1-button mouse and trackpads they continue to ship.
Compared to any Windows PC, Apple gives the user more choice with its mono-button mouse. A user can operate the Mac with a single mouse button but he or she also has the choice to plug in a multiple button mouse and use that. With a Windows PC you are forced to use a two-button mouse.
SteveJack – if you want a 2-button mouse get a PC you f**king loser! Jeez, these people who claim to be long-term Mac fans yet are completely out-to-lunch when it comes to UNDERSTANDING that ‘simplicity’ is the foundation of the platform!
i think some guys don’t get it, this isn’t pc programming, its object orientated language… why can’t u just click on it and it stays open…
Those of us forced to use the darkside PC’s at work get accustomed to the two button mouse. It is the ONLY thing I have come to like about the PC and I will be happy when it comes to Apple.
Apple probably does not wish to alienate manufacturers that already produce two-button mice for the Mac. I stopped using the Apple mouse a few years ago. Too bad, it sure is good looking.
Personally I love 2-button mice, love the scroll-wheel too. But, I work with a lot of users from 5-year-olds to the elderly on Windows machines and they never seem to figure out which button to press. Never mind that you can get by using only the left button and the left one seems most natural to me. They always press the wrong one. Keeping the one-button mouse standard means that programmers have to make it possible to use their programs with one button, and that’s better for most users. I don’t think it puts me out too much to buy another mouse that I like better than the standard one.
One button, two buttons, three buttons or even 9 buttons (for Logitech MX). USB mouse is as ubiquitous as Starbucks in New York city. Get what you want. Look at how much Apple is charging for the Bluetooth Mouse and keyboard. $70 each!!!! I bought my Logitech wireless MX keyboard and mouse for $90. So thanks but no thanks.
Apple isnt in the Keyboard and Mouse business. Let them work on computers.
Are there so many uncoordinated people in the world. How do you type capital letters on the keyboard? press “cap lock” on and off? Thing that looks like mirrored version of your right hand… its called “left” hand, use it, when you have a second button you cant use any other keys anyway. If you know how to use the shift key you can use the control key.
But then again, if you don’t like it, get a cheap USB mouse, When you order your computer get one at apple store, you are getting the mouse for free, so spend a extra $$$ for a nice mouse.
Here, http://cheese.com/ so that you have something to go with your whine.
Apple ships one-button mouse! Imagine that!
Get over it people! Apple will never ship a two-, three-, four-, five-, or six-button mouse. Period, end of sentence. Time and again it has bee proven the new-to-computers end user prefers not being confused.
For those of you ‘leet haxors who need multiple buttons, knock yourself out and buy one!
At least several times a year, when I talk about the Mac to PC-heads, I have to hear their derision in the form of, “but Macs don’t even have a two-button mouse, ha ha.” I hate having to say, “yeah, but you can buy a five-button mouse for it if you want…” it always sounds so weenie.
C’mon Steve, at least make it an option!
Lets get rid of the mouse…Its sooo 90’s
I like the single-button mouse, but I’ll admit that I was hoping the Bluetooth would have two butttons and a scroll wheel. Actually, the scroll wheel is the big thing. And I know that there are several 3rd party vendors who make them, but no other mouse feels like an Apple mouse. I don’t necessarily want them to make it standard but I wish they’d offer the choice to upgrade. I won’t part with my Pro Mouse until Apple comes out with one but I do wish they would. Of course then everyone would jump all over them for crushing the business of third party developers.
Any debate about the two-button mouse is silly. Apple should offer a two-button mouse (with scroll wheel) as an OPTION. This either-or question is a red herring. Apple doesn’t sell only one computer model; why should it have only a single mouse model in its product line?
Those individuals who like the “elegance” of a single-button mouse can get one. Apple can even continue to use this as the default shipping product. But consumers should not be stuck with the one-button mouse as the only option. Computers are tools — and as such they should be about letting people get work done in the most efficient way. I find that a two-button mouse can still employ an elegant design and that it (along with a scroll wheel) is indeed a great aid in screen navigation and access to common commands.
There is simply no good reason for Apple not to offer the OPTION of a two-button mouse. And while we’re at it, how about an ergonomic keyboard — again, as an OPTION?
Long live the Apple one button mouse! It’s functional, it’s good looking, it’s more efficient and it drives home the point that the Mac is different and better and easier to use.
The rumors are that a 2 button mouse is on it’s way (macosrumors).
Having said that I’ve been using a 2 button mouse witha scroll wheel for about 4 years now, I can’t do without it.
Programming the wheel click for cmd-h to hide an application instantly must save me hours of time a week.
I could understand a one-button mouse pre-contetxual menu days, but now? Come Steve, bite the bullet, swallow your pride an join the rest of us in using a 2 buton mouse, or at least give it us a build to order option.
Apple should stay out of the mouse buisness, it’s a slippery slope, you can’t please everyone and the profits are just not there.
Third party companies can out compete Apple because they provide mice for all platforms, means higher quantity, reduced costs and more profit.
I don’t under stand you. You do have an option.
When you are at Apple Store you have more then enough choices for buying Different mouse. Again this is up to the buyer, if they are experienced with two button mouse, they know they should get one.
Also how are you “stuck” with the one button mouse, are you stuck with Apple stickers that they put in with all the computers they sell? Don’t use it.
Obviously you are not a novice to computer, so when you are ready to buy a computer, should you try to get what you want? and doesn’t the Apple Online Store have different choices of popular USB mouse? And what would you rather have, a high quality One-button mouse or cheap-o crap-o, low end 3rd party mouse?
All of my relatives who bought Mac for the first time, never said “where is the two button mouse?” Only people who complain about this is people who have used a computer before so you people should be savvy enough to buy your own mouse.
This two button causing confusion has to be a joke. If it has two buttons, then it obviously has two functions. If it has one button then it obviously has one function. Stuff like contextual menus are made obscure rather than simple by having a one button mouse.
To say “if you want a 2-button mouse get a PC you f**king loser”.
A two button mouse makes it easier.
Now I have a pro mouse because I think it looks nice, but a 2 button jobbie would be better. It wouldn’t make simple tasks harder, but it would make difficult tasks easier.
The minute the OS supported contextual menus as standard, they should have shipped an optional two-button (plus scrollwheel) mouse. And make two buttons standard on professional (Powerbook, Powermac) systems. Heck, how about a beginner setting where both buttons do the same thing – a standard click?
I love my Macs. The new clear buttonless mouse (button in the case) looks lovely; it sits in the shipping container, while I use this crummy Macally two button scrollwheel mouse ’cause it’s got the goods.
You guys are funny. YOU DON’T HAVE TO BUY EVERYTHING FROM APPLE!!
The mouse and keyboard that ship with a new mac are not free. You pay for them. There isn’t an option to NOT buy them though, for people who want a new 3rd party mouse or already have a 3rd party mouse you want to carry on using.
I already have two keyboards and two mice (one puck, one pro), but I’ll be getting another set with my G5. It’s nice to have a spare, but I’d rather have �100 knocked off the price.
I am a PC user and we don’t have the choice to get one mouse button.
That make me sad :(.
Good day
Originally, Steve Jobs opposed to having cursor/arrow keys on the keyboard (saw them as useless if you have a mouse) as he attempts to put fewer and fewer confusing options (keys) in front of the user, but his staff convinced him otherwise. I think he’ll stick to his guns on the issue of a single-button mouse.
Having a single-button mouse directs the future designing of the Apple GUI to continue to be simpler than the ones preceding it. If a multibutton/scroll-wheel mouse were “standard” then the GUI designers would tend to utilize it; left click, left click-hold, right click, right click hold, left double-click, right double-click, left drag, right drag….etc. You may say “That’ll never happen”, but just look at Windows. There are some functions that are difficult (perhaps a few that are impossible) to access if you don’t have a right mouse button. This is a very slippery road that leads only in the wrong direction.
BTW: 1 in 20 people are left-handed. At least 1 child in each classroom is made to feel that MS computer’s were not designed for them. They must learn to constantly translate computer instructions and adapt to public-use systems. These are unnecessary road blocks to learning.
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For the physically challenged, the large surface of the Apple mouse is all the difference between being a dream and the nightmare of trying to right and left click those small buttons. You don’t even need fingers to use an Apple effectively.
I am quite sure Steve is striving towards a simple mouseless/keyboardless GUI (“Think Different”) so even more people are comfortable. But, by adding a multibutton device would be traveling in the exact opposite direction in the eventual creation of a computer GUI that everyone can innately use.
Although you may not be comfortable with a single-button mouse, you are able to use it. Much fewer people can use a multi-button mouse as easily as you use a single-button mouse. Why insist on inconveniencing the majority for your own preferences and desires to be more MS-like; dragging the computing world backwards from simplicity, and further isolating the weaker users? What could compel someone to be so uncaring?
– Winston S. Churchill: “Nothing can be more abhorrent to democracy than to imprison a person or keep him in prison because he is unpopular. This is really the test of civilisation.”
Letter to Home Secretary 21. Nov. 1943, reprinted in, Churchill W.S.,
Closing the Ring. Houghton Mifflin, 1951. p. 679
If you think 2-button mice aren’t confusing, you’ve obviously never done tech support. It is probably the single thing more people have trouble with than any other aspect of using computers.
I don’t understand complaining that a Mac “doesn’t even come with a 2-button mouse”. So what? You don’t need one. It makes about as much sense as an old-school X11 user complaining that Windows machines don’t even come with a 3-button mouse.
Geez.
to AI
You can get it from Hywel and Jeff Mincey, they have extra one button mouse they are stuck with.
To the individual above who claims that users already have the option for a two-button mouse, first, paying for TWO mice is not my idea of an option. Sure, one can buy a two-button mouse in _addition_ to the one-button model which Apple ships with its computers. But consumers don’t have the option of buying ONLY a two-button mouse with scroll wheel. Second, I know, of course, that there are plenty of third party vendors which offer mouse products. But I was advocating that APPLE itself offer a two-button mouse as an option — again, so we need not buy two mice and use only one.
Moreover, I was saying that any debate over this issue (regarding the one-button vs two-button mouse) is pointless. There is no need for a debate if only Apple will offer BOTH.
Apple’s research continually shows that a two-button mouse confuses users. Yes, that sounds crazy to us geeks. But, you have to consider that many, many people still aren’t comfortable/don’t fully understand computers (and the user interface, in particular.)
Of course we can thank M$ for confusing the hell out of people with a poorly designed interface, but the fact remains that “novice” users — the vast majority — are still easily confused. And, in Mac OS X, most people don’t need to right/control click all that often — at least not enough to warrent a two-button mouse.
Oh, and scroll wheel? Puh-lease. That’s just an annoyance.
Yeap…Apple has done extensive research in marketing, ergonomics, and usage that show that the vast majority of users with multibutton mice (ie. Windows users) never touch the other buttons. Trust me, I work in tech support. I have to teach people every day what the right-click does. They’re all monkeys.
To Michael, a scroll wheel is not an annoyance for the users with very large monitors or dual monitors — such as graphics and video people who make up a significant niche market for Apple. Now maybe you personally don’t care for scroll wheels — therefore NO one should have the option of buying one from Apple? By that rationale, if you have no use for laptops, then Apple simply shouldn’t make any of those either.
Folks, this isn’t about personal preference. This is about what Apple should offer in its product line. And to imply that only “geeks” can understand and master a two-button mouse is preposterous. Plenty of ordinary users have no problem with it. Again, I’ve yet to hear a single argument against Apple’s offering this product as an OPTION. No one is suggesting that Apple should do away with the one-button mouse but only that it should offer a two-button model as well.
Now what’s wrong with that?
Right on Ary!
People, try to understand ALL of the points for offering ONLY a single-button mouse.
Try to understand that 3rd party vendors would leave the Mac market – rightfully so – if Apple gave OR offered a 2-button mouse. Think.
Try to understand that Apple offers computers that are simple to use – for everyone. If YOU ‘need’ to complicate things, then YOU have the option of prying 30 measly bucks from your wallet, to buy yourself a really good product from one of several vendors who are only too glad to provide you with your needed options.
Apple is offering their car with a steering wheel designed for use with their car. If you want/need a chain-link steering wheel with a built-in joystick and drink holder – go buy one!
Apple better not drop the single button mouse in favor of a two button mouse. Not all of us like the two button mouse over a single button mouse! After Apple replaced the “Hockey Puck” mouse with the Apple Pro Mouse, I just fell more in love with the simplicity and ‘NO MORE CRAMPS’ in my mouse wielding hand (due to constant finger positioning over the same 2 buttons with crappy clicking quality). I like the idea of laying my hand anywhere on the mouse (in a lazy fashion) and can invoke the mouse click. I also am one of those people who relies heavily on keyboard shortcuts and hardly ever uses the control-click method, though I do use it from time to time.
If you don’t like the Apple Pro Mouse, go buy a darn 2-button mouse if you want one so bad enough!
This is ridiculous. Why is clicking on a second mouse button more complicated than holding down the control key with one hand while pressing the mouse button with the other? Most novice users probably don’t know what contextual menus are — full stop — so this would have to be explained to them _regardless_ of the method of invoking the menus.
As for crowding out the rest of the Mac market — that’s a bogus argument. A mouse is not an exotic “peripheral” device. Even a two-button mouse is not “exotic.” In today’s modern computing, it’s a mouse is a very basic and essential input device. And even if Apple were to offer a two-button mouse, there will always be third parties who offer deluxe mouse products with extra features. In the past Apple has offered printers, monitors, and scanners, but you didn’t see that stop other companies from competing.
And even if it would take some companies out of the Mac market, by your reasoning Apple should not sell FileMaker because it will discourage third parties from developing database managers for the Mac. Apple should not offer Keynote because it might persuade Microsoft to cease development of PowerPoint for the Mac.
This is rubbish.
To DudeMac, just so you know, my previous post was directed to MacBuddy and not to you. But I do have one comment to you and it is this: Who among us is arguing in favor of Apple’s dropping the one-button mouse? I don’t know anyone who is advocating that. Some of us are only suggesting that Apple offer ALSO a two-button mouse option in ADDITION to its current one-button model.
Folks, this is so simple.
The two button mouse is unnecessary. The one button mouse actually does what the two botton one does. You can click or hold it down to access menus.
I would like to see the scroll wheel instituted though on the one button mouse. I wouldn’t have to move the curser to the lower right portion of the screen or take my hand off the mouse and use the up and down keys.
I agree with Ashami and Jeff Mincey. Make a multi-button scroll wheel mouse an OPTION. Ship the darned one button mouse as part of the standard build, but let those who like the productivity of a multi-button scroll wheel mouse have an option to upgrade. We would rather buy a keyboard and mouse from Apple that asthetically matches the system than buy from someone else.
For those of you who think the elegance of OS X will somehow be compromised by an Apple multi-button mouse, I say hogwash.
This is to JEFF MINCEY. I see your argument, but I don’t think you are getting the answers you are looking for, so here is my two cents.
Let’s agree that a one-button mouse is less confusing for the average consumer (NOT professional) than a two-button mouse. That’s probably Apple’s goal.
I agree that control-clicking is no easier than a second mouse button. But the point is, the Mac OS and most apps (can’t say all for sure of course) don’t *require* you to use contextual menus. So the average consumer may never click the second mouse button in ordinary Mac use. For sure, the iApps and Finder concentrate on putting buttons where you expect to see them, and where you can get at them easily (Dock, customizable Toolbar, etc).
Finally, you suggest making a two-button mouse an option. Since the mouse comes with a new computer, that means to get the mouse you’d have to custom order your computer on the Apple Web site. Not everybody want to buy from Apple online, for several different reasons. Furthermore, custom configured systems are NOT RETURNABLE. I know people would eat a restocking fee by returning a computer anyway, but flat out Apple says custom orders cannot be returned.
So maybe as soon as Apple unbundles the keyboard and mouse from the computer box, your idea may be possible. It may happen, now that Apple sells both wired and wireless input devices. On the other hand, not all computers have built-in Bluetooth yet, so perhaps don’t hold your breath.
Third party mice are not as good looking as Apple mice. That is the problem. My Logitech looks completely out of place with my new iMac/keyboard/speakers. That is why an Apple 2 button with scrollwheel would be nice. The whole thing feels like a Porsche for which I had to buy Chevrolet steering wheel…
The one button mouse serves only to provide ammo for anti-Mac PC users. PC users see the one button mouse as symbolizing the crippled idiocy of the Macintosh platform.
Hopefully, Apple clues in on this and catches up up with rest of the world soon – a 2 or 3 button mouse with a scroll wheel is long overdue.
If there are REALLY poor souls out there who are “confused” by the second button, then THEY should have to buy a retarted one button mouse to suit their needs. Apple shouldn’t design their hardware for the least common denominator.
Agree on the trackpad: you can’t just buy a 3rd-party trackpad!
IDEA:
One button, with two clickers underneath: one in the center (triggered if you click in the middle normally, OR if you click the left end) and one at the right (triggered only if you click the right end).
By default hitting either clicker (OR hitting hard enough to click both) would simply be a left-click as usual. But the right end could be assigned to be right-click.
Then, to remind people of the dual function, just have a small recessed dot or groove, off center. Pressing to the right of the dot would be the right click. (But the groove wouldn’t be long enough to actually divide the button in two–it would still LOOK like one button, nice and clean and simple.)
Alternatively, have a dot texture (like the PowerBook vents) on the right 1/3.
I also don’t see how people can possibly still be arguing over 1 button vs. 2. BOTH ways have very real advantages, so both sides are right. That seems incredibly obvious to me!
I got a free 2-button mouse when I bought a digital camera and never use it, the one button mouse is so much more comfortable to use.
What are the chances you will click the wrong button with 2-button mouse-50% . What are the chances that you will click the wrong button on the Mac?-Zero!! This always happens during powerpoint presentations. People invariably click on the wrong button and this ugly menu pops up on the screen. It takes a lot of gymnastics to get it to go away. At least we have an option on the mac to use a one button mouse. U dont on Windows- I call that a drawback in Windows.
In my estimation, those who make the argument that the Mac is somehow crippled because its mouse has only one button are probably among those who frequently make other such meaningless comparisons as, “Mine’s bigger than yours!”
First, let me say that I use a two-button mouse with scroll wheel, and I like it. However, I do think there are some reasons why it could be detrimental for Apple to offer its own 2-button mouse.
It’s not as simple as you think. As several posters have mentioned, lots of people have trouble with distinguishing left-clicking from right-clicking. It’s not that they’re idiots (necessarily), it’s that there is *no logical reason* why a left click selects something or clicks a button, but a right click pops up a menu. (If there *were* a logical reason, someone who is left handed would have to work against that logic.)
Keep in mind that not everyone who uses a Mac has their own system. If Apple were to provide the 2-button option, many ill-advised IT geeks in schools would likely “upgrade” their machine orders, only to cause classroom teachers headaches with their students’ limited small motor skills.
The interface will effectively become inconsistent across systems–even “stock” systems provided by Apple.
Apple will have to include additional options in all documentation (e.g. Or, if you have the optional Apple Pro Mouse [two buttons], you may click the right mouse button [or left mouse button if you have selected the left-handed configuration in the Mouse panel in the System Preferences] to access the contextual menu.)
Application developers would be more likely to create functions that require a second mouse button. I hate the thought of ever havng to right-drag something.
It’s not that control-clicking is easier than right-clicking. It’s that simply clicking (rather than left- or right-clicking) is much easier to explain and understand. A click makes sense when there’s only one thing to click; going beyond that it becomes mere memorization. In any case, there should be no reason why a beginner would need to learn contextual menus. If you are teaching a novice to use contextual menus, you probably aren’t a very good teacher.
If Apple ever does offer the option, be prepared for: whining that it is more expensive than the one-button; whining that it doesn’t have a scroll wheel or even more buttons; reviewers (especially in PC mags) adding in the extra cost for the two-button mouse, and complaining that it’s extra.
dang it, I keep missing the button on my mouse! It’s SO HARD to hit the correct button when there are two. I’m so confused!
“Make something easy enough for an idiot to use, and only idiots will use it.”
Yes Dennis, that extra button is going to cost everyone BIG TIME. At least another couple of dollars.
Microsoft should market the “StupidaMouse” (vs IntelliMouse) for people who can’t handle the second mouse button. Maybe THAT would give Apple a clue.
Have you ever tried to use Windows with a one-button mouse? NOW you are faced with a crippled OS.
PC users seem not to realize that the problem is not Mac OS being able to do all even with a one-button mouse. It is Windows unable to do anything if not with at least two-buttons mice. Subtle but quite a difference.
Seems like an old man happy to walk with a cane in that he has one leg more than the fit youngsters out there.
PS
Got a call from Steve: the one-button mouse is free. There is no charge to you.
PPS
the majority of PC (power) users I know do buy a new mouse anyway (wireless for the most).
Sorry Windows lurkers out there but the most reliable hint that you are stupid and dumb is exactly when you happen to raise the issue of “Apple stuck with one-button mouse”.
Apple has to go with lowest common denominator, that is One Button Mouse.
Why not offer Two Button Mouse? Well tell that to Logitech, Kensington and Microsoft, ask them to OEM it to Apple. Or could it be that Apple doesn’t want to play one against other. Maybe Apple doesn’t want to produce what they conceived as unnecessary thing, since the market is already saturated with the product. Maybe only small percentage of people actually ask for two button mouse with scroll button.
You don’t for one second think that Apple is that ignorant of what people want with their computer, do you? This is a choice they made and its the best decision they can make under the circumstance. I’m pretty sure people aren’t making their decision on which computer to purchase on account of a mouse.
You people have very strange logic.
People here are trapped in some kind of binary, either-or mentality. One can cite the merits of the one-button mouse until the end of time, but it’s pointless because no one is trying to take that option away from you or from Apple in the first place. Arguing for the option of a two-button mouse is NOT the same as arguing against having a one-button model.
Also, I still don’t accept the idea that two buttons will utterly befuddle most end users. Anyone using a computer is using it for word processing, email, web browsing, etc. And all these apps are much more complicated than any two-button mouse ever could be. If people don’t have the smarts to figure out two buttons, then they can’t run Microsoft Excel or Adobe Photoshop or even Safari to begin with.
Now will some people inadvertently click on the wrong button (in a two-button mouse)? Of course. And when they see that menu pop up, they will wonder what that’s all about, and then they will try the other button. End of lesson — now they will know which button to press. Boy, that was hard.
Not to mention that if this is all about making a computer’s functions easily accessible and easy to use, consider that people are much more likely to stumble by accident on the feature of contextual menus if they have a two-button mouse. This gives them a “Aha” moment when they learn something new. And for those who are confused by this menu, well, as the folk wisdom goes, if it hurts when you do that, then don’t do that (i.e., don’t press that button).
A point made previously by Carlos that the presence of a two-button mouse would require people to go only through Apple’s web site is lost on me entirely. I see no reason why Apple dealers and retailers could not also ship systems with the two-button mouse. And calling these “custom systems” is absurd. Plenty of computer companies offer a choice of more than one keyboard or mouse — without this upsetting their ability to honor warranties. Please.
But it comes down to this. It’s not enough that the one-button mouse advocates have the mouse of their choice. Instead they want to deny an Apple-made two-button mouse to the rest of us. Now how are you any the worse off if Apple makes a two-button mouse in ADDITION to its current one-button model? If you don’t like a two-button mouse, don’t get one. Duh. But don’t deny a bona fide two-button Apple mouse to the rest of us who would like to have one.
WHY SHOULD APPLE offer a product that goes against their r&d philosophy? It’s a small (but vocal) minority that are unhappy with the one button mouse, and a smaller even group that are upset having to buy (two) mice. You’re not having to buy two, you are choosing to. If you are so hard up, put your old (but unused) one on eBay for heavens sake. Stop demanding that the company design and produce a hardware product that few customers wish them to.
Picture this: You are buying your new Mac online at the Apple Store, and there is a little pop-up menu for your mouse selection. You can choose one-button or two-button scroller, wired or wireless.
Sound reasonable?
I agree with you 100% Jeff. But I suspect arguing on this board won’t make it happen. Apple has shown an ability **at times** to capitulate on decisions when faced with overwhelming customer demand e.g. adding tabs to Safari, offering eMacs to the general public. So this may be a good opportunity to hit them with the old feedback machine and see if they cave. It’s a long shot, but I believe it is possible.
VIVA THE TWO BUTTON MOUSE!
I work at a independent computer retailer. We carry both PCs and Macs. There is an area of our store set up to demo machines, we have a Mac and a Gateway set up and running at all times, and customers freely come in and play around on these computers. I like to stand in an out of the way area sometimes and watch people, especially novices (usually older folks) without their knowledge. It used to amaze me, but after seeing this play out over and over again, I have to admit that the Apple mouse is better than the Gateway’s, and I don’t mean it’s manufacture. It’s all in the usage. Over and over again I see people on the PC with menus popping open in the center of the screen, getting flustered clicking madly and wondering why the mouse didn’t work the same way twice. On the other hand, on the Mac it seems like the mouse becomes a more natural extension of the hand, point it, click it, done. Just an observation, not scientific, but as the computer is turning more and more into an appliance and not a geek hobby, I think operation simplicity is a huge plus.
Mr. Winger, let’s see your documentation on the small number of users who want an option for an Apple branded multi-button mouse? Have you conducted a scientific poll and not shared the results with us?
I think you are stating your preference, but you really have no idea how many customers want an option other than a one button mouse. I don’t even think Apple knows how many customers want this option. At least they have never asked me. You can bet I will be giving them my feedback, whether they ask or not.
I WANT MY NO BUTTON MOUSE! I’M TOO CONFUSED BY ALL OF THESE BUTTONS!
Ok bob, you have that button pop up, which company gets to put their mouse in that elite category? How is the mouse going to be packaged? Who is responsible for the mouse as far as the warranty? Inside the box or outside the box?
But I doubt Apple will change their manufacturing process with something trivial as Mouse packaging, so you will be getting a One button mouse and not difference in cost. And you will be buying a two button mouse either way.
I’m not saying two button scroll mouse is a bad thing, I have wireless 9 button Logitech MX, but I’m lazy. But for 95% of the people single button is more then sufficient.
I pity the fool who is confused by a two-button mouse once Expos� arrives in Panther.
I am sick of being laughed at by grandmothers and parents who I finally convince to drop their stupid PCs for Macs and the first thing they say is, “How do I right click?”
And if the wheel is too much for some of you to grasp, well, I’m not sure we need you out there representing Mac users. Not all of us are dolts who can’t take a little time to learn some major time-saving techniques.
There is a little thing called Market Research. Companies like Apple do it. A lot of it. Guess what? The support for an Apple branded two button mouse isn’t there.
Well Mr. Brabham, you nail on the head.
There is an old axiom in advertising, “Keep it simple!” keep it simple for people to use not because they are stupid or ignorant, keep it simple so they don’t have to deal with unnecessary information. Maybe they’ll pick it up later on, that is up to the individual users, but the point is to get them to take the first step. You got to walk before you run.
I worked with people who had no idea that right button did anything on their PC, so you tell me which group of users are ignorant
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What are you talking about I.P.? If apple made a two button mouse and let people choose, i don’t see a problem.
Problem with 2-button mouse – if it were actually consistent on Windows, then we would be shouting from the rooftops for it but it’s just as inconsistent as with the control button on the mac – so what’s the point? You still have to stop, read and learn it. It’s not like COMMAND-Q or COMMAND-N where it works across the board.
If you want a 2,6 or 9 button mouse – BUY ONE and stop annoying the rest of us.
2 buttons, 3 buttons, you really have missed the Mac point haven’t you.
The design intention is NO BUTTON. The whole device is a reflex mechanism, get it, you are not distracted from screen concentration in any way, not even to think about “do I need to click the left button, right button, middle button, 2 together, what the &^^%^^% was I about to do on the screen???
Your insistence that Mac users want two buttons lacks any statistical evidence. If it were true, stores would notice that every iMac sale was immediately followed by the sale of a two-button mouse (or more). Just because you like more buttons doesn’t mean that everyone else does or need that.
PC users often complain that macs only have one button, but how many mac users complain about it? Do you think is the majority? Apple would have done a two-button mouse already. That’s why we don’t have two-button mice on the macs: most people don’t need them. Those who does have it already. Personally I do mostly with the keyboard anyway, I have a 4 buttons scrollwheel wireless on hte desktop and nothing on the Powerbook. Do I have problems? no way. I do not NEED the mutli-buttons mouse although I make use of it. The argument would hold if you work mostly on ONE major tool and have its menus configured to your mouse. Otherwise is hot-air.
“People” do not want two buttons, PC users need two or more buttons. Windows apps NEED at least two-button mice.
On a slightly more comic note, I can visualize Steve Jobs in one of his mercurial rants yelling at random people: “10% WANT TWO BUTTONS?! THEY WANT TWO BUTTONS?! WELL HERE’S NO BUTTONS! TAKE THAT!”
or: apple industrial design engineers on some acid trip that ends with “hey man, you know what would be really cool? A button on the BOTTOM! (takes hit): and they did it.
On a closing issue, Apple GUI guides does not rely on functionalities built on top of external hardware like a mouse. Then why not having application REQUIRING 4 buttons and a scroll-wheel. It boils down to the same argument of Two-Buttons or bust. Windows interface is built around having a 2-butt mouse. Apple interface does not have that constraint.
Mr Pee, I obviously meant that the mouse options would all be provided by Apple. Apple should make both, and let customers choose which to buy. Why the heck not? You can choose your graphics card, your hard drive capacity, and so on. Why not be able to choose which mouse?
For that matter, why the heck can’t you opt for a wireless keyboard and mouse at the Apple Store, when ordering a G5 “desktop” system? Odd that Apple forces you to pay for the wired mouse and keyboard, even if you just want the wireless ones.
thanks for the advice jbelkin. Can you point me to a nice two button mouse that will match my white pro keyboard? Thanks.
Boy1der80, others are making 2 button mouse, why should Apple make their own?
Reason why they make one button mouse is because that is their philosophy, its what they believe in, not a gimmick.
And Apple doesn’t see one button as a problem, only people like you do.
The wireless mouse and keyboard are not yet available. Doubtless when they become so, the option will be available.
Smart Guy
Piss boy, the one button mouse is not the problem so much as the lack of a choice from Apple. If I want to buy an Apple with a two button mouse, I first have to buy Apple’s one button mouse, then buy a third-party ugly 2-button mouse. I just want the OPTION to PAY APPLE MORE MONEY to get a two-button scroller mouse that Apple designed and made.
Get a clue.
smart guy, you can order a wireless mouse and keyboard today, but its shipping is indicated to be 2-3 weeks off. Therefore, a BTO G5 should have the option of selecting a wireless keyboard and/or mouse, but with the result of a 2-3 week shipping delay.
Seahawk said:
:2 buttons, 3 buttons, you really have missed the Mac point haven’t you.
The design intention is NO BUTTON. The whole device is a reflex mechanism, get it, you are not distracted from screen concentration in any way, not even to think about “do I need to click the left button, right button, middle button, 2 together, what the &^^%^^% was I about to do on the screen???”
Oh, right, and trying to remember where the Control Key is doesn’t do it – only WORSE?
What a load of sophistry.
Then he ends his rant with: “Windows interface is built around having a 2-butt mouse. Apple interface does not have that constraint.”
I wouldn’t want a two-butt girlfriend either!
“Mouse got back…”
I don’t understand why seahawk and others are arguing against a two button mouse so much. Sorry, that you think that a one button mouse is superior – i find myself constantly using the control key, which is a right click equivalent, and know several other people who do too. I’m sure it’s not limited to my group of friends either. Apple has built right-click functionality into all their applications, including it’s OS – seems to me apple should back that up with the proper hardware.
Jeff, sorry my argument was lost on you the first time. You went ahead and presumed that Apple could bundle the one and two-button mice with computers and send them off to resellers. You’re right, they wouldn’t be “custom systems” then, that point is moot.
But, picture yourself as someone in charge of buying for an Apple reseller. How many of each system do you buy?
One of the logistical facts right now is that Apple has the keyboard and mouse in the computer box. As soon as Apple changes this fact, then it becomes a whole new argument. But the reason you can buy your choice of keyboard and mouse say from Dell is because it’s a separate box. Some could argue that’s a good thing, some could argue that’s a bad thing.
Until Apple takes the keyboard and mouse out of the computer box, it doesn’t make sense logistically to try to offer options.
Again is part of Apple interface guidances. Mouse? Point and click. Want more options? Use (these) keyboard modifiers. In order to have an application running on the Mac developers have to comply with the GUI guidances.
There is nothing of the such on any other environment/OS (but NeXt maybe).
I have encountered applications that offered more features more easily the more buttons you have – by design and not because you happened to program a multi-butt mouse, which can be done with a Mac as well. Designing an app like that is an absurdity.
To Seahawk: You say that the ultimate design is for a “no-button” mouse — your point being that things such as muscle-memory and reflex should predominate where using a computer is concerned. I agree. Where we appear to disagree is in your (apparent) contention that in order to access a contextual menu it’s easier to (1) locate and hold down the control key, (2) move the mouse pointer over the area in question, and (3) click the mouse button while holding the control key than just to do a mouse-over and right-click.
Two buttons should be optional. I DO NOT want to try to teach my mother to deal with a two button mouse. She has a hard enough time dealing with one… yes really.
Oh wait… I already have a three button cordless trackball…. IT IS ALREADY OPTIONAL.
Quit whining.
This is one of those times that I’m embarrassed to be a Mac user. I can’t believe you people are against choice. Makes me sick.
HERE IS THE SOLUTION:
In addition to the standard one-button mouse, Apple can offer a two-button mouse but with a device driver (built into OS X) that supports a setting whereby both buttons on the mouse have the SAME function. Does this not give us our cake and let us eat it too? Does this not make everyone happy? People who want right-click access to context menus can have it, but Apple can ship OS X with that function turned off by default. That way, for the uninitiated users, both buttons will function in the same way and no one need get flustered or confused.
But those of us who want the convenience and power of a two-button mouse with scroll wheel can have it.
I agree with a previous poster that it’s hardly a bewildering burden to people just to select from a simple drop-down menu at the Apple Store the option of (1) one or two buttons and (2) wired or wireless. Rocket science this ain’t, folks.
Hey bob
Apple doesn’t want to sell you a two button mouse, I suggest that you get a clue and stop moaning on it.
P.S. if you have to resort to name calling, you are a pathetic idiot, I hope you are not, but you have demonstrated twice that you are one. Lets try to be civil its quite unbecoming of a grown man to start name calling, its very sad.
Seahawk – your kidding right? You think that using keyboard modifiers is a more elegant solution? You think that it’s easier to use than a right-click? You’ve been arguing this entire time about ease of use, and now you’re talking about interface guidances? Let’s bring it back to ease of use shall we? right clicking is much easier, functionally and conceptionally than using keyboard modifiers.
Nothing against two or more buttons. As I said I use 4-buttons and a scroll wheel.
What I am saying is that the GUI Apple developed and the guidances developers have to comply to do not foresee any dependency on mutli-button mouse. It has standardized on a point&click; interface.
The problem is not that of having to remind where the ctrl-click is. Applications running on a Mac cannot change the meaning of ctrl-click: it opens a pop-up menu. It is part of the GUI rules. To my knowledge Apple is the only manufacturer to require developers to comply to its GUI guidance.
On other OSes a righ-click in one application can change the color of the screen while in another makes the computer sing. There is no guideline.
Until Apple will come out with GUI guidances explicitly describing interaction of multi-button mouse no one will ever see an Apple branded two (or more) buttons mouse.
Again, not against more buttons, they simply are not part of Apple GUI guidances.
Harryhode says:
“Oh wait… I already have a three button cordless trackball…. IT IS ALREADY OPTIONAL.
I’ll bet your three button cordless trackball wasn’t made by Apple, and I’ll bet it doesn’t asthetically match you G4, G5, or whatever the heck you are using. It’s the APPLE option many want, not your stinking Kensington.
“Quit Whining.”
We’ll quit whining when you stop becoming an *ss.
Seahawk:
if you want to bring up Apple’s Human Interface Guidelines, then tell me why Apple broke them in Panther – by making the finder windows brushed metal?
IP Freely:
Look into some Depends or something, man.
1. I am not against using multi-button mouse on a Mac
2. Choice of Mouse Option is fine as a Drop down menu
3. Apple will never sell Apple branded 2 button mouse.
So what do you have… current situation, you can buy multi button mouse at Apple Store. Its just not a drop down menu and its not Apple Brand.
Can I live with this, yeah… it just seem some of you are crying poverty over less then $50. or others are ready to commit jihad against one button mouse proponent.
There are room on this Earth for both type. Just because I think one button mouse is elegant and still useful for 95% of the users, that I think two button mouse is not good.
So calm you asses down people.
I admit I have been teasing a bit because I find the whole querelle somewhat amusing: I do have a choice with the Mac to use or not to use a multi-button mouse. Granted, it is not Apple branded but that is the only limitation.
What I am saying is that Apple itself might be self-constraining itself.
Apple not producing a two (or more) buttons is saying to developers: Do not rely on variants of mouse buttons for your application interface. Stick to the Apple GUI guidances.
When Apple will change, integrate, add “how to trea a two-button mouse in an Apple application” then there will be an Apple two-button mouse.
But wait, what about three buttons? OK, let’s wait for the new Apple GUI guidance for developers. Then there will be 3-button Apple branded mouse. But wait, what about scroll, wheel, 4 buttons, 5 buttons, 6 buttons?
See the point? I might be wrong but Apple is NOT going to change its GUI guidances for developers (which is a mandatory thing), hence I doubt there will be an Apple branded mouse. Apple will offer the compatibility (a friend has a monster 9 buttons beast) but will not go past that.
Again, I might be wrong and again I am not advocating superiority of one vs two. I am only saying it is not contemplated in the Apple GUI guidance for developers.
hey bob, you’re a f*uck-tard. I gave you a chance to prove that you are not an idiot, but you just proved that you’re one.
bob: changing the decoration of the finder window does not affect the GUI. The look is not part of the GUI. Does the brushed metal window do more than an Aqua window because of *that*? C’mon.
AND, btw, Apple has GUI guidance for look, they were called a ‘theme’: remember the old Platinum theme? The brushed metal is just that. No GUI break for as long as the main (user interface) characteristics are there. The metal look (or lack thereof) does not change – per se – the interface.
Seahawk, Apple has already changed their guidelines, by making the finder use brushed metal.
IP Freely, I am offended by your name calling! I was merely trying to help you in your apparent problem of peeing freely. Depends is the answer.
I think we have to look back at the history of the mouse. Was it not originally inteneded to be a POINTING DEVICE? The one-button mouse does just that. KISS.
But the Pc as in many cases contaminated the waters and we have todays dispute.
That said, my Apple mouse wire broke and I bought a MS Intellimouse with wheel for a paltry $14 and it works flawlessly in OS X. No drivers, etc. left,right click etc.
So, for $14 stop the complaining. It just isn’t worth the argument for such a small investment.
bob, my incontinence is my problem not yours.
And, actually also OS X has theme: Look at the buttons: you may have them colored (three different colors) or grey metal.
The interface requires 3 button to close the windows (left), minimize (middle), zoom (right).
Changing the colors, having them metalized, making them square, does not change the interface for as long as the left, middle, and rightmost keep their meaning in all applications. But I diverge.
Again, my opinion is that Apple is not providing multi-button mouse because it is not dealt with in the GUI guidelines. Am not saying they are right or wrong. I think this – together with the fact that there must not be enough pressure from the installed base.
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And frankly, if a user choose to buy a Mac or a PC based on what kind of mouse s/he gets by default in the package…, well, do not make me call names
back to work now (that 4 buttons-scroll wheel-wireless mouse has been left in the cold all this time: I – honestly – did not have the need of using it for this chat among friends.
Cheerios
Jeff, your suggestion of having two mouse buttons do the same function goes against inherent usability. People see two buttons, they expect them to do different things. Otherwise you get into the Windows world where a control panel can override what is intuitive, and people complain that their computer isn’t doing what they think it should.
Apple has no qualms forcing what they think is best on the consumer, and what is best for Apple. It’s a combination of their design philosophy and marketing, and it’s Apple’s Way. But frankly they’re right about a lot of things, so I have no problems with that.
In this case, they think a mouse that can only “click” is the right thing. They even took away the button from the mouse…the whole thing clicks. There is no confusion in the Mac OS X experience of when you should left-click or right-click.
Again, contextual menus are a convenience for the power user. Ordinary users use the menus at the top. Some usability experts even say that Contextual Menus shouldn’t exist at all, arguing that there is no visual cue indicating that something can be right-clicked. Look around your screen now, especially if you have Windows handy. How many things can you identify that definitely can be right-clicked?
Well think of it this way, as a Mac user, we do not have to depend on the right button to survive. Which we can’t say for our PC lovin’ brethrens.
If the right button on a PC breaks, its like cutting off one of their arms, they can’t function, they start to have nervous break-down. No such problems for us.
Its an option that we have, which is a good thing. I think we can all agree on that.
Actually, the Human Interface Guidelines have to do with the function and placement of controls, not the appearance (which is moot anyway since all windows are going to metallic in Panther. The pinstripes were an aesthetic flop.
Re: the two vs one button mouse, I have to side with the one buttoners. I’m still mad at Apple for sticking all those ‘help, home, page up, page down and f-keys’ buttons that are gathering dust on my keyboard.
HEY, THIS WHOLE THREAD WAS STOLEN FROM ANOTHER SITE!
http://old.macmilitia.com/features/micedebate.shtml
OR DID THEY STEAL IT?
IP Freely, I have to admit that was a pretty good comeback.
I gotta duck out of this crazy thread. C-ya all.
Sorry to back back again, but Seahawk – here’s a tidbit from page 70 of Apple’s Human Interface Guidelines:
“Mac OS X version 10.2 provides developers with a new �textured� window appearance (see Figure 5-4). This window style has been designed specifically for use by�and is therefore best suited to�applications that provide an interface for a digital peripheral, such as a camera, or an interface for managing data shared with digital peripherals, such as the Address Book application.
This appearance may also be appropriate for applications that strive to re-create a familiar physical device�the Calculator application, for example. Avoid using the textured window appearance in applications or utilities that are unrelated to digital peripherals or to the data associated with these devices. “
So, doesn’t Panther violate those guidelines?
Rules were meant to be broken, and in OS X’s case, this is a good thing.
http://www.apple.com/macosx/panther/
Bring on the brushed metal, the pinstripes looked weenie!
bob, good argument. But Apple could defend itself two ways.
1) The sentence you quote begins with “Mac OS X version 10.2” Panther is 10.3, so presumably new interface guidelines are free game. The interface has to be able to evolve…imagine if OS X had to stick to OS 9 guidelines.
2) Apple is trying to reposition with Finder with 10.3. The Finder is becoming more of an app than an environment. Having the ability to make hard drive icons disappear off the current Desktop makes me believe Apple wants us to stop using the Desktop as our main interface, and instead have it be a Finder window.
This has got to be one of the longest threads I’ve ever seen, you’d think they were talking about the MHz myth or something. Sheesh
I like the multi-button mice and buy one when needed. I have no problem with the Apple single button mice when I’m working with a friends Mac. I did hate that hockey puck mouse with a passion though. It kept getting turned around by it’s own cable when I would take my hand off of it.
“But why, why?” (Regarding Carlos’ msg)
I don’t understand the move away from the desktop metaphor. I do not find it easier to navigate through a finder window, in ANY of it’s view options. I think this is going to be resisted by the majority of users until something demonstrably better is created.
What a twerp Jeff Mincey is! He can shove his scroll wheel and extra buttons up his fat arse! He’s the sort of guy who would be far happier with PCs, I’ll bet at school had one of those fat pens that wrote in 12 different colors with a big pink eraser stuck on top. “a scroll wheel is not an annoyance for the users with very large monitors or dual monitors — such as graphics and video people who make up a significant niche market for Apple” DORK! Apple have the graphics market sown up and you know what?… we all have great big monitors and we all whizz along happily with our simple Apple mouse…why do you think we love Macs? I bet you even have one of those ‘work-station’ desks with a built-in coffee cup holder, a pot for paperclips and hook to hang your anorak on!
As I write this comment, it’s December of 2024, almost twenty-two years after this thread was born, and now that for many years Apple has offered a multi-function mouse, as I had called for from the beginning, what say the rest of you? Are you ready to go back to a single-function mouse with no scrolling capability? Or will you admit that you were simply short-sighted and had a lack of vision?
I’ve been following the discussion regarding compliance to Apple’s Interface Guidelines, and this is all well and good — except for one thing: is it not better to focus less on whether there is a compliance to these guidelines than on whether the guidelines are wise in this regard to begin with?
There are multiple keys on a keyboard — some of which will behave differently depending on the status of a computer. There are multiple controls on a dashboard of a car. There are even multiple controls on a washer and a dryer. And yet some people are trying to convince me that any consumer less than a “power user” or “geek” will freak out to see two buttons on a mouse. I simply cannot accept this. As I have said, even a complete novice will, upon trying one button and finding that it doesn’t do what he wants, will then try the other button — whereupon the light bulb will go over his head and the lesson is learned.
And even if I’m mistaken about this, it’s still no argument in favor of not offering a two-button mouse as an OPTION.
I just don’t understand most of you. Your reasoning is fear-based. It’s anal. All this talk of guidelines — does it occur to you that if strict adherence to guidelines were to carry the day, then the Mac would not offer the Unix shell command line interface at all? Fortunately, though, your mentality did not prevail at Apple and SOMEONE there was a voice of reason who said, “Many — probably most — users will work strictly within Aqua and will never use a Unix shell. But why don’t we provide it as an OPTION for those users who would like it. That way, those who would be confused by it would never have to use it anyway while others could still have its benefits.”
Imagine that. Options!
Jeff, if you’re going to insist on the Option route, please explain how Apple should realistically change how they package keyboards and mice in computers, and propogate those changes to resellers so that people can choose the Option whether they’re buying online from the Apple Store or buying from their local reseller.
Cause if you can’t do that practically in the business sense, then why should Apple try to either. Your answer has to be more than Apple can just “do it” because they’ll have to demonstrate ROI on making such a change to their fulfillment process.
And you didn’t address my question of what do you do as a reseller in terms of buying a certain number of each system, if they are still all packaged together. Resellers are probably still pissed about being required to carry equal stock of the 5 different iMac colors.
Look, the issue comes down to this:
For a PowerBook or iBook, we are STUCK with the silly one button built-in mouse button. I have an iMac and have bought a two-button MS mouse with scroll wheel, but the only thing holding me back from a new PowerBook is the lack of a right-mouse button.
Instead, I’ll get a PC notebook. It’s that simple.
I like my Kensington Trackball.
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I am amazed at the number of posts here just concerning an extra button. If Apple did not make a one button mouse, are they available for those who want them elsewhere? Or would the one button mouse soon become extinct. I don’t know. I haven’t actually looked at mice much lately. If they would disappear, then I strongly support Apple keeping it for those who want or need it. I would also like to see an Apple OPTION for a second button – or a trackball – I love my trackball – I think it is a good idea to keep the one button mouse alive.
Carlos, you seem to suggest that unless I detail precisely how Apple would manufacture, package, and distribute alternate mouse products, (as well as how it would present these options to its customers), my argument in favor of options fails. You lose me on this logic. I claim no expertise in the area of product packaging. But that does not invalidate the merits of my foregoing arguments.
You take the position that if Jeff Mincey can’t do it, being a person with no expertise in product packaging, then it’s unreasonable to expect that Apple Computer, a Fortune 500 company which employs thousands of people could do it. Hey, Carlos, would you care to run that one by me again?
Apple is already a company that offers a number of different models of computers — each of which carries its own packaging and distribution requirements. There are plenty of companies that provide “just-in-time” configurations. Alternatively, Apple could also measure the demand for two-button mice and it can look at industry figures for the sales of existing two-button mice in the retail channel, and based on those percentages it could prepackage some two-button mice to reflect those numbers. By posing this question to me you seem to imply that this is some insurmountable riddle for a corporation to solve. It’s not.
As for your question about resellers, I see no problem here inasmuch as they already stock peripherals (including two-button mice) from third party vendors. Thus the issue of the customer demand has already been dealt with. The only new wrinkle here is that Apple would be another vendor which offers a two-button mouse. What’s the big deal?
Unless you are prepared to tell me that no computer company, not Dell, not HP, not IBM, not Sun, etc., offers anything but ONE keyboard and mouse option for its customers, then I would say to you that this “issue” is not so daunting or perplexing as you seem to think it is.
steve jobs is a fuck tard and i blame him for this.
i want a nice apple branded mouse by my keyboard, is that too much?
fucking christ steve, think about people other then yourself you cube tossing tard.
You all may notice that Apple does not call these “Pro” accessories …
Maybe a 2-Button Bluetooth Mouse is yet to come?
An option to offer different buttoned mice costs more money and creates more confusion that no option.
Lots of Macs are bought from resellers who don’t pack the boxes as the Apple Store does. That means dual inventory must be created and kept for all stock. In essence, Apple would be doubling its computer line – six G5s instead of three. And that’s just to add a second button. I imagine that the scroll wheel fanatics would be next. Adding a scroll wheel to one and two button mice would now quadruple inventory.
Laptop designs would multiply. That’s a costly complexity for Apple. Making a split trackpad with the default that both halves do the same thing is not the same as today’s single trackpad.
There’s no way to design a two button mouse that will work as easily as the current one-button design. When the entire mouse, or any portion of it, acts like the button, one has an amazing mouse, so easy and comfortable to use. Apple making a two button mouse would be just as much a step back in usability as the hockey puck.
Every one of these additions cost Apple money (creating dual inventory boxes, designing and manufacturing new laptops and mice) and completely violate the Apple first principles of usability and simplicity. Macs are meant for the rest of us, at least that’s the corporate philosophy, and the current one-button mouse is simply the very best pointing and selecting device out there. This simplicity extends to all sorts of standardization, like built-in ethernet, firewire, USB ports, airport readiness, etc., that the custom PC world shies away from. Suppose you have no intention to go wireless. Well, you’re paying for a wireless capability in almost all of Apple’s new computers.
The option to offer the choice of mice, while it seems so consumer-oriented, is an expense Apple can do without, especially since the solution for customers who want a two-buttoned mouse is so simple. Apple is not really a consumer-oriented company in that it offers every option that all users want. That’s the Microsoft philosophy. They design their software based on the features that their users want. Sounds good, makes for a great features list, but such a philosophy, taken to extremes (an easy thing to do), results in ugly, hard-to-use, complex software. Being simple is _hard_.
So to offer an option for a two-button mouse causes confusion in the market. But to offer some computers with SuperDrives and others without does not. To offer some computers with Firewire 800 and some with Firewire 400 does not. To offer some computers “Airport Ready” and others with “Airport built in” does not. To offer some computers with the G5, others with the G4 and still others with the G3 does not.
And I’m sure that everyone in the market has a clear understanding of the differences of video cards sold in each model of the Mac and the possible resolutions supported by each monitor. I’m sure everyone in the market understands the difference between DDR and SDRAM, between PCI and PCI-X, between Aqua and X11, etc.
This is rubbish.
As for the contention that a two-button mouse would necessitate dual inventory, this too is rubbish. If you are a reseller and you already offer some peripherals on your shelves, such as trackballs, two-button mice, etc., then you already have a sense of the market demand for such products. Thus when you discover that Apple now supports a two-button mouse as an option, you simply order some Macs with the two-button mouse prepackaged and included. Now was that really so hard to imagine?
As for the supposed superiority of a one-button mouse, that’s fine. It’s superior for YOU. It’s not superior for everyone.
Does the introduction of a new product come with some costs? Sure. If a product must be free to develop before Apple will offer it, then it will go out of business and offer no products at all. I don’t suggest that Apple should not study the market and the economics before offering a two-button mouse. No one here is in a position to know whether the return on a two-button mouse would more than offset the development and marketing costs. I simply contend that this debate about which mouse is better is utterly beside the point. Provided the economics are there, (and clearly they are for a number of peripheral manufacturers), it need not be either-or.
Jeff, I posed the logistical question to you because you kept asking “what’s wrong with options”. Well, I pointed out packaging and fulfillment issues.
It seems you have put a finer point on your argument that no are no longer insisting on Apple letting you choose a 2-button mouse *instead* of a 1-button, rather you would be content to have an Apple-designed 2-button mouse, probably with scroll wheel, on reseller shelves.
Well, I agree that should be no sweat off Apple’s figurative back. I’m sure Apple has done at least one study over the years of how Mac users may react to them introducing a two-button mouse. I’m sure at least one Unix developer has asked “can we introduce a two button mouse” as they’ve been designing and building the Mac OS X interface from scratch. But as you can see, Apple still insists the average user only needs a mouse than clicks only one way, and they are designing the computer experience to go along with that.
If you do want to see what Apple is thinking about, look here.
http://www.macobserver.com/columns/devilsadvocate/2003/20030425.shtml
Diet Smith, if you want to see something demonstrably better than the current Finder winow, look at the new Finder in Panther. I agree that current Finder windows are cumbersome, which is why Apple is changing it.
Why not 3 buttons? Why not 10? One could always use extra buttons for _something_, but one button is all that a mouse needs. Hopefully Apple will continue to offer the simplicity and elegance of the one-button mouse as standard equipment. It is the Macintosh way. Windows wannabees can always buy a multiple-button mouse if they really want one.
“Third party mice are not as good looking as Apple mice. That is the problem.”
Right… so, to please everyone, Apple should offer two button mice as well as 3-button, 4- button, 5-button mice. Also, my third party speakers are not as good looking, so Apple should also sell 3-way speaker system as well as surround sound system. That reminds me of my power surge… ugly as hell. To make all things for my computer nice, Apple should design Apple-style power surge. While we are on the subject, my mouse pad needs to be Apple-designed too. Uhmm, one more thing,…
I have an idea… why don’t Apple put the optical sensor under the keyboard! That way, it can be used for typing and it has 119 buttons!! Is that enough for the people like bob?
Part 1:
I am a graphic designer, and would be qualified as a “power-user”, why? ‘cos I use my computer to do “things” as efficient as possible, since time is money! I have been a Mac user for more than 10 years now, and I can honestly say, the 1 buttoned mouse AND a 2 hand operation is the most efficient and time saving method over the two buttoned mouse [I know, because my employment change has forced me to use XP everyday at work for close to 9 months now] here are my experiences and thoughts:
Once you learn and used to the Mac short cuts [i.e. Apple/Command + x or the famous “Macintosh Claw”] is a sure way to do things right the FIRST time with out LOOKING [and consistent through out most apps]. In many instance [that I’m so used to the speed and productivity that Mac brings] I use the right-click on a PC when I want to create a new folder – which is the only “quick” way when there’s no actual “quick” keyboard shortcuts [yes, I know Alt key allows you to scroll through the menu, but is it quick? No, its slow because you have to look], that I accidentally created a short-cut instead, or when I want to rename a file it thinks I want to delete – they are one above the other!!! then I have to undo and try again… two button mouse slows me down EVERY time, because I have to be patient and LOOK at what the contextual menu SAYS. So who ever says its for the “power-users” obviously are not or not knowing what they are talking about!
Part 2
Now, as I have said my job as graphic designer has taught me not to use tools pallet or pull down menus in Illustrator or PShop most of the time, ‘cos 1] it’s much cleaner to work and see the whole page with out all the clatters; 2] it takes time to click / change a tool or pull down menus with the mouse every time; 3] 2 hand co-ordination comes naturally when you become a “power-user” just like a touch typist don’t LOOK at what he or she’s doing but concentrate on the work! a 2 button mouse breaks that concentration since you have to FIND the right command ALL the time. 4] a true “power user” do MORE with LESS clicks! 5] if you don’t believe me, look at most of the duo-platformed graphic apps on PC, 99% of their keyboard shortcuts are same as Macs’ User Guideline! except their Command key is where the Control key is on a Mac, and its painful to use long term wise because you’d have to use your pinkies instead of the thumb – making you twist / stretch your wrist TOO far [eg. to Open or Print on a PC could be painful with one hand -therefore resulting RSI… man! I’d have a Mac any day!
The scroll is USEFUL to read long vertical type of apps such as Email and Web Browsers [my question is can you read faster than you scroll? If not, then its not a necessity, think about it], but apart from that I don’t see them as necessity, remember the arrow key works just the same if you don’t want to drag with your mouse… and in the graphic apps I use and mentioned above doesn’t work with a scroll at ALL! EVEN on a PC! I’d still have to use the space bar to pane [which is more efficient anyway, remember scroll wheel is only a 2 way operation not 4 or 8 or more]. I only use contextual menus when the short cut is too far to reach without getting RSI [eg. show/hide-guide in Illustrator or selecting brush sizes in PShop… I mean its not like the Control key is too far for the “power-user’s” to reach from their usual stance: thumb on Command, pinkie on Control, ready to rock!
Part 3
In conclusion, nothing is faster than the quick Mac-Claw action and a single buttoned mouse for the TRUE power user, if you have to rely on contextual menus to do things then you are either not a “power-user” because you don’t really need the speed or productivity or you’re too lazy to actually pull-down menus or know the shortcuts, or you have been a PC user for too long that you just don’t get it. I’m sure a lot of the Mac “power-users” would agree with me, but usually they are so busy powering away doing what they do best… dancing away on their keyboard than whining about the 1 button mouse which comes standard [for good reasons!].
I think people should cool it a bit. The debate degenerates quickly to name-calling here. Look at this rationally:
The issue of 1-button vs. 2-button vs. 3-button mice is NOT about the OS. That is clear since OS X supports multi-button mice. It is also NOT about mouse design. I hardly believes that a company that can design a computer system can’t put enough circuitry for 2 or 3 button mice. Is it because of His Steve-ness. I doubt that since NeXT has multi-button mice. Is it about the price? Doubt that… 3 button mice are not much more expensive to produce.
So, why the insistence of 1 button mouse?
Can anyone believes that Apple does not do market research? (No, ‘Apple does not call ME’ does not count… you are not the center of the universe, even if you believe so) Should you believe that Apple never considers the implication to exclude multi-button mice in the grand scheme of The Switch? Or its relationship with third-party accessory maker? We can only guess, but we’ll never know for sure unless Apple starts explaining their rationale. *I* think Apple does what is best for *Apple* and to an extent, its customer, and that is shipping one button mice, wahtever *you* may think. You want to change that? Don’t buy Apple’s new mouse, politely send suggestions to Apple, start petitions, etc. Until Apple is convinced that the majority wants multi-button mice, I doubt that it will change.
The original Apple Powerbooks had 2 buttons on trackball.
I hope Apple NEVER bring out a two button mouse – you know why? Because they wouln’t be Apple anymore. How many fingers to you need to point for goodness sake? ONE, and what do you think you have a left hand for??? Jeez, I think most of the posts here are actually from Windows users who have been sent over to secrety try to sabotage Macs superiority!
Regardless of this epic debate, MacOS Rumors says with “very nearly 100% certainty” that a two-button scroll wheel mouse from Apple is on its way.
We all know how accurate MacOS Rumors predictions are, right?
http://www.macosrumors.com
Like Carpal Tunnel Syndrome? …get a 2-button mouse.
This isn’t hard. If you use a two-button mouse, you use small muscles and 1 tendon to press each button.
If you use a 1-button mouse you use big muscles and tendons back in your arm.
The mantra of RSI reduction is ‘move the action to the big muscles’ or something like that.
By providing a 1-button mouse they ensure developers will code for it, enabling accessibility for disabled users. If a 2-button mouse was standard there would be programs the next day that required it.
Show me a GUI problem that’s can’t be successfully refactored to not require a right button. That’s not to say it shouldn’t be an option, but not required.
Apple is doing this right, making it optional, and I really don’t understand why some people want to impose their 2-button preference on the rest of the customer base.
The two-button mouse and track pad are a must. I have used the Kensington Orbit for several years and will never go back to a single button mouse or device.
Bill,
Command-W, dozens of times per day has lead to CTS in my middle finger (no, really) of my left hand.
Your info regarding CTS is valid, yet some continue to refuse to – even after a very lengthy debate – allow ‘Apple’ to ‘choose’ what’s right for MOST of its customers.
Ease of use, peripheral partners, CTS, years of R&D, standardization of the Mac GUI (not specific Mac Apps!), usability by left-handers, keyboard shortcuts that are difficult on Windows, two-handed computing, arrow-keys, and many other very valid reasons to continue to OFFER only a one-button Mac mouse won’t convince some that Apple ‘must’ OFFER a choice. Well they do, but you must get it from from Kensington, Macally, et al.
Folks, this is so simple. Go back and re-read Aryugaetu, Carlos, Voodoo’s explanations as to why Apple is unlikely to OFFER their own 2-button mouse.
BTW, tomorrow (Filet-Friday) when you go to McDonald’s for lunch, ask for your Filet-o-Fish without cheese but with lettuce. There’s a button they’ll push. You’ll get your Filet for 10� extra (even tho’ no cheese!). And they won’t have to change their entire product line to satisfy a few hundred of their billions and billions of customers
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AFWIW, some would be correct to point out that not EVERYONE will ‘fold up their tent and move on’ when a competitor (Apple) offers their product for free.
Perhaps what might be a more accurate observation would be that few companies would be eager to promote a product that another gives for free.
However, some companies think or feel that their customers will stay with them because of features, customer service, perceived value, etc.
Again FWIW, a $30 mouse does not have the same profit or profit margin as a $400 database. It might be more difficult for some companies to justify offering a specific product, especially if they weren’t making ‘loads of money’ regardless of their margins.
I’m a current PC user, but my Mac is shipping through Fed-Ex as we speak. I personally love Apple’s GUIS, and their other innovations.
I really don’t like my PC, but I really think that Apple should offer a different mouse as an option. If my mouse wasn’t dual-platform, I would be confused as hell about the one-button mouse because I would be forced to use it.
Whether or not the Apple mouse is more useful or simpler to use, whatever, Apple should at least offer it. What about us PC users who have been raised on the two button mouse?
I agree that the Apple mouse is far more attractive than most PC mice, but for users who aren’t confused by the two-button mouse, and I know it confused me when I first used one, the option needs to be there.
At the Apple store you can adjust how much memory you have and whether or not you want a modem. Even if only 25 percent of the people who bought a Mac got the two-button option, wouldn’t that help Pc-to-Mac conversion rates?
Thinking different doesn’t mean being averse to everything that isn’t familiar.
That’s my two cents.
BTW, sorry to dredge up a mostly dead thread.