“In between the howls of outrage over Vista’s dropped features and claims that Microsoft are screwing and disappointing their loyal customers yet again, the Mac and Linux fanboys are rubbing their hands with glee – anticipating a flood of disillusioned Windows users flocking over to the Light. Sorry guys – the disappointment is going to be yours to savour. Microsoft-bashing may still be a popular passtime [sic], and sometimes they certainly do roll over and present a nice soft target,” James Bannan writes for APC Magazine.
“But the thing to remember is that the way in which the vast majority of us use computers is the Microsoft way – Microsoft mentality, Microsoft products, Microsoft technologies,” Bannan writes. “It doesn’t matter who thought of it first, who ripped off who, whose version is better…we are the Microsoft/MSN/Hotmail generation of computer users. And these products are to computer usage what iPods are to portable music – not necessarily the best, but the natural choices. If someone’s a Windows user now, they’re going to stay a Windows user when Vista rolls out. Don’t try and fight it.”
“Windows lets you in, gets you going and gives as much or as little freedom as you want,” Bannan writes. “Windows rules now, and will rule next year too. Attack Vista all you like – it makes for amusing viewing.”
Full article here.
MacDailyNews Take: God, we’re so glad to be Mac users!
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This guy is sure of the defensive!
This guy bothers me but he is right. Large corporations and most PC users don’t want to know about the macs.
Too bad
Talk about settling.
in other words , it’s shit , but tough shit
The world is full of non-thinking drones. As an entrepreneur, their money will be in your bank account. You can use it to buy more Macs.
Voice of experience.
I guess APC’s copy editors and writers don’t know how to spell “pastime.” But then, looking up stuff is hard.
Ases.
They just compared Windows to an iPod.;…
How does that work?
I’m starting to wonder if, as mac users, we really WANT macs to gain a majority of the OS market share.
We might be better off as the underdog.
We’ll see won’t we . . .
“You know how Windows works – it’s familiar and comfortable. People want to play games, communicate, have fun.
They DON’T want to spend an hour trawling through techhead forums searching for that one line of code to get something installed.
Or buy into a system which looks great, feels great and has all the flexibility of titanium.
“
yes , that’w why people choose os-x , dumbass
sometimes we don’t want to spend all our time ridding our system of viruses or fending off hackers
New analogy:
Why should I get potty trained, when I can sit here and stew in my own shit all day? Sure, it stinks, it’s uncomfortable, and I have to “re-butt” 6 times a day, but it’s what I’ve always used and I find it hard to believe that fancy iPot over there makes things any better. Why, I heard that the only reason those guys don’t get diaper rash is because hardly anyone uses it. Besides, I like to be able to tweak my diaper, so that is why I use it.
They said the same about the horse and cart but when something better comes along he’ll have as much success holding it back as he would the tide.
I used to think that PC users stoically tolerated mediocrity, now I think that will also gladly accept inadequacy and incompetence. What a bunch of maroons. Enjoy your Vista experience, fellas.
That’s what everyone though about IBM terminals & main frames, MP3 players of years ago, and also the world was flat.
One-day (its happening now) people will wakeup want more than a flat world of MS! When this happens MS will have to wakeup and do better (like Apple has been forced to do better to stay alive).
WMD
This guy is anti-Apple. He places the iPod into the same class as Windows — “not necessarily the best” — I wonder what defines “the best” for him. Of course, he could be admitting that OS X is better when he said Windows is not the best. I do have to agree with him, though. Most people still and will never be able to open their mind up to alternatives to Windows. They just don’t know better alternatives exist. It is the way it is. I’ve now converted 3 families to Macs and iPods, not necessarily because I wanted them to use Macs, but because it was the better choice in the long term for them. Months and years later and they’re not going back. One person at a time.
WE are better off as the underdog indeed, the big surprises from Steve Jobs are fun to follow in a 90% Windhose office world…
I can just smell the stink of fear from this writer and folks like him. They see their “empire” crumbling before their eyes. They refuse to learn other skills, which is OK by me, just more clients and money to come my way. I am seeing more and more people who have been Microsoft dependants all their lives cross over. This must scare the poop out of the Mircosoft people.
I’m starting to hope people like him KEEP their PC’s and Windows. They deserve each other.
Like any deeply held belief (religious, moral, philosophical, technological) people believe that what THEY believe (however they came to that belief) is the right way, the best way, and can’t understand how others can’t see it the same way. Thus we have Sunnis, and Shiites, Catholics and protestants, Jews and Muslims, Macs and PCs, Republicans and Democrats, and many others. It’s the human way of duality. Ultimately these debates waste time, and are essentially negative in nearly every aspect. Perhaps the best way to go is:
Use what works for you. Don’t worry about what someone else is using (or believes) unless you have to interface with them, then concentrate on what you agree on and ignore the rest since it won’t be resolved by you anyway.
one more thing.
Windows sucks!
To some degree, he’s right. But his conclusion that we should stop fighting, though, is silly. Rome didn’t rise nor fall in a day. There is plenty of fighting yet to do.
Rome was an incredible empire and fell. Great Britian’s territory covered the globe and yet they fell. Ford once had an overwhelming percentage of the car market and yet that isn’t what it used to be. Great Dynasties in China fell which people at that time thought would never happen. The Berlin wall came down. Why is it so hard for people to think that Microsoft’s grip on the computer industry will falter at some point? Will it be OSX, Linux, or some newcomer to overthrow them? Who knows? However, to be so cocky to think that Microsoft cannot be overthrown is really a limited view on things. Perhaps some people should pick up a few history books before they start on how things will never change. The one constant in the universe is change.
Hmm. I can understand the argument that we Mac users are living in a Windows world. But Hotmail? MSN? Last I saw, Hotmail was losing market share fast to Google’s superior product, and MSN’s latest stab at search engines has never come close to Google’s veteran search engine.
So, yes, we are in a Windows world, but Microsoft is not invulnerable, and their recent failed attempts to grow into other businesses (see above, and see also Origami) suggest that Microsoft has jumped the shark.
MDN Magic Word is “end,” as in…this is the end of this post! (add your own witty rejoinder.)
Why do we want Microsoft slaves to switch to Macs? If they were stupid enough to buy into Microsoft’s filth, they deserve to suffer.
eat shit! millions of flies can’t be wrong!
Even when I was a windows user I never used MSN or Hotmail.
it is a peecee world.
which is why i’m a mac elitest/snob.
I don’t want those clowns flocking to the apple camp, just to say we have a bigger market share.
BMWs have a relatively small market share compared to GM, Ford or Toyota, but guess which I’d rather buy?
OK, fine. Even with the Mac’s “small” market share, Apple is able to put out the world’s fastest, most productive computers. As Mac users, we’ll get the same treatment whether it stays a Windows world or not. We get the innovations first. We laugh at the pathetic rip-offs Windows users get. Our computers are reliable, and we have no viruses or spyware. Our computers aren’t ugly plastic towers. We have a community with some excellent support forums. What would we do if everyone used Macs? Make fun of Linux? I like being superior. I like making fun of Windows. Let it be a Windows world.
Just wait until all of the Wal-Mart people . . . you know, the ones who think $200 is too high a high price to pay for a computer . . . find out that VISTA won’t run on their old machines.
There’s a rude financial awakening coming down the line for the 6-pack crowd, folks. Some SERIOUS upgrading is afoot, and Apple–I think–will be positioned perfectly to take advantage of those who already HAVE a monitor but just need to replace their CPU’s with a quality, reliable, dual-purpose device. Maybe it’s the Mini, perhaps something else.
Either way, there’s some landfill a’comin’, when VISTA ships, friends!
this guy’s article is lame, as he tries to be all-telling. I switched from windows to mac, and have no intention on going backwards, vista or otherwise.
What’s the abbreviation for belief system?
This article hit the nail on the head. The Vista launch will be the most successful for an OS in history topping Windows 95.
Its doesn’t take rocket science to predict this. It Leopard is release before Vista it will be forgotten. The press will jump all over Vista and Microsoft will advertise the shit out of it. Apple is the sole reason for the Mac’s tiny market share.
The guy’s an asshole, but he’s essentially right. Most M$ users will continue to use their shitty products regardless of how awful they are.
I’m a very happy Mac user and proud of it. So whatever, enjoy Vista if it ever actually gets released that is.
Windows gives you freedom? From what may I ask? Here is obviously a real PC biggott who doesn’t know what he is talking about and is obviously in his own little Windows fantasy world. It’s all falling apart all around him yet he is totally blind to the facts. Whatever dude.
But he is right.
I read a local news forums site. So many average people post asking for computer PC help. WIndows users. Why did my computer…? I read this and wonder how they put up with it. And yes most times there answer is “just going to buy another Dell – I see towers are only $498”
I write them regarding consider a Mac and the answer is ALWAYS the same. Too expensive. So I point out how is buying a Dell at $500 every year is not expensive? But more important they’re sheer volume of time with a PC that doesn’t work and spending the time to fix, tech visits. Which cost doesn’t count towards the PC cost.
Yada Yada… THEY JUST DON’T CARE. And they have no desire to educate themselves. All for basic email, web use and photos movies & music. That’s what they tell they use it for too.
THEY DO NOT CARE.
Hey, I bought myself one of those $200 Wallymart boxes (no HD, dvd or OS) and then added all that stuff I had laying around from my Doze days. I use it for things my G5 PM can’t do.
I know its hard for Apple users to admit it, but that $200 box does a whole lot of things that Macs can’t do (unfortunately) (And I don’t give a s**t that it can’t run Vista)
Most people i’ve met don’t really care about what computer they use as long as they can get their work done. They also think computing is Windows. They’ve never used Macs and some have never even heard of it.
I’ve suggested to a few of these people to consider Macs but they’re comfortable using what they’ve always been using. They also fear that they have something different so they won’t have help and that they won’t be able to use certain programs for Windows that they may need in the future.
The # of people using Macs isn’t going to change quickly. There are plenty of people who will continue to use Windows because it’s: good enough, don’t know there’s an alternative, don’t want to learn something new because they just want to get something done, think the cheapest Macs are expensive, have software that they need Windows.
As long as there is an increasing number of people in IT, management, schools, tech geeks, developers, regular people, everywhere) who can influence others to consider Macs and Apple keeps on putting out great products and services, it’s a slow but positive step to more people using a damn good computer platform.
God wouldn’t it be terrible not to have a mind too. Its as if Britich motor bikes of the 1950s never lost their 60% world market share simply because people just could not be bothered to use something less quaint and better. If the consumer has become that unthinking then where lies the future?Metropolis here we come, the Microsoft way.
In what other product category does a consumer say, “yes, we know there are superior products out there for a similar price but we just can’t buy it because that’s the way it is.”
They say Steve has a Reality Distortion Field. But, to me its the sado-masochist Windows users that know the faults of MS products but swear by them anyway that are really mindf^&@ed.
“it’s a Windows world: deal with it”
No problem, I use a Mac!
YOU deal with it!
Bragging about being the Windows/MSN/Hotmail generation is like bragging about using AOL.
And seriously, who uses MSN? I know IE defaults to the MSN homepage, but it’s universally despised by everyone I know.
Today on MSN:
Top 10 ways to buy things!
Should you buy more things? Take our quiz!
We rank the best products you should buy!
Check out these great Microsoft product tie-ins!
I hope my competition continues to use Windows.
Jay said: “I know its hard for Apple users to admit it, but that $200 box does a whole lot of things that Macs can’t do”
What, exactly, can your $200 piece of junk from Wal-Mart do that my Mac mini Core Duo can’t? Please enlighten me.
Let me help, it can become infected with all kinds of crap!
Cool huh?!
Man, if he isn’t a prime example of the stockholm syndrome, I don’t know what is.
I have XP on it with Boot Camp, so my Mac can run all the most popular Windows viruses and spyware. Anything else?
Yes, we are dump lemmings and we are proud of it!!!!!!
MicroJunk, our pride and joy!!!!!
He’s right, mostly. The vast majority of those who buy Windows machines will continue to do so, regardless of the sweetness – or absolute lack of it – in Vista, late if ever.
Two thirds of all PCs (including Macs) are bought by IT types for Business use. They buy Windows systems because “Nobody ever got fired for recommending Windows”. Old IT farts like me recall (in the 70’s and 80’s) when that was “Nobody ever got fired for recommending IBM” – and you knew they were talking about mainframes because ‘desktop’ computers didn’t yet have an application in the business world.
<u>Thirty years later</u>, IBM is a minor player. <u>ALL</u> the other significant players from the 70’s and early 80’s are GONE! Oh, some of the companies still exist – they are not significant players in the computer business. I believe ONE of the Seven Dwarves is still trying, still escaping bankruptcy year after year.
If Windows goes down … do you really think OS X will be the replacement? Or Linux? No … something else. Something we have yet to see.
Jooop: Hey, I’m Apple all the way, so I’m not trying to start a pissing match. For starters, unless you are the .1% of 1% of Apple users that have a Intel chip, Bootcamp/Parallels is not an option for using Doze.
OK, from that point on, I prefer MS Money for handling my personal finances-Quicken for Mac is the biggest POS Apple-compatible software I have ever used. If anyone doesn’t understand that, then you obviously haven’t used either Money or Quicken for Doze. Secondly, I have a large number of Doze games which never have, never will, be Apple-compatible. It was a large investment and I will not let them go to waste just because I now prefer OS X.
Would I prefer an Intel Pro or Power Pro or whatever the desktop version is going to be called? Sure, but I have a 19-month old $3,700 G5 which is most definately not going to be replaced anytime soon. Sure, I could buy one, but I have other priorities than endlessly chasing the latest and greatest Apple box (no sarcasm intended.)
If you have a suggestion for how I can play games on a G5 Apple, some bought as far back as 1998, and use Money or Quicken for Doze, I’m all ears.
It’s too bad the California Appeals Court that ruled for bloggers didn’t make them pass a spelling test before they could be shielded.
YEAH!!! BECAUSE 7 STEPS TO DELETE A SHORTCUT IS EXACTLY THE AMOUNT OF FREEDOM I WANT
Microsoft will sell a ton of Vista licenses because any new PC will come with it preinstalled. Microsoft also will sell a bunch of upgrade licenses, because there are people who won’t consider a Mac, even though you could run Vista on Mac hardware (most people won’t pay the price, because they don’t want to be bothered with installing Windows on a computer – they just want to turn it on and use it).
Most corporations are looking at the short-term bottom line, because Wall Street forces them to meet Wall Street’s expectations for profit, and investing now in Macs for future payoff simply doesn’t play on the Street.
The only real shot Apple has at significant, fast switchers is to have Leopard be able to run Windows apps without booting Windows. Microsoft may be planning to counter this move, seeing as Windows Media Player, IE, Outlook, etc. have no Mac counterparts. However, if Apple can get it to work seamlessly (and if Apple can’t, who can?), and then actually tell the world about this new feature, THEN Apple has a chance for real market share gains. Otherwise, it will be a slow but sure increase, but nothing huge.
Jay, I do have a suggestion: eBay.
You’re gonna need an Intel Mac eventually. Best to sell that G5 tower while its resell value is still high.
You really use a $200 Wal-Mart machine for gaming?
As for Money, you can run that on a G5 with VirtualPC.
Jooop: I respect your comments, but I’m not sure II have quite your passion on this. I would no more trade in, or sell, a 19-month G5 than I would trade in a two-year old car just because the body style changed. Even if I did receive a fair price for the G5, I’d still have to lay out alot of monry for the new one.
Keeping my present setup means I don’t have to shell out any money at all. Sorry, I care about my stash more than that. I’m not as fan of MS anymore, but neither am I going to cut off my nose to spite my face, so to speak,
I also have VPC, and yes I could use it exclusively for Money, but I’m not loading it just for that. I bought it for some very low requirements-games and it wasn’t any good even for that.
To put that $200 in perspective, it was closer to $500 after the installation of the other parts. With the rapid drop in prices over the years, the box as it is now configured would probably be state-of-the-art for about 2001 or 2002. I know, because I built a bunch of them back then. Most of the games date from that time-they play as they were intended at the time.
We’re talking corportate IT here, since it’s the biggest buying force in the PC industry. We as Mac supporters should start instillate a sense of reality into the mind of the IT decision makers.
Let’s make a few suggestions :
1. initiate and sponsor a massive anonymous poll to measure perceived quality of service among PC users in large corporations. The kind of large poll with precise, to-the-point questions
2. initiate a focused poll towards IT support teams to get a qualitative feedback on down-to-heart, objective facts that create a mess in the PC world, such as (not limitative) :
– time for installing / uninstalling software
– time spent on curing PC from viruses
– etc
And most of all :
3. spread the word for developing ROI (return on investment) awareness among IT buyers.
What else ?
0nly objective facts boiling down to money savings will speak.
Magic word “bare” like in the Only bare facts will have people bear with you.
Jay: Then if your current setup works for you that’s fine. Keep doing things the way you’re doing them if the way you’re set up now works and you’re happy with it. If you’re not happy with your current setup and you want to do everything on a Mac, Apple has answered that prayer.
The only thing I took issue with was your comment that Macs can’t do everything a Wal-Mart PC can do, which I take to mean “Macs can’t run Windows applications natively.” That was true until recently, but it’s not true of the machines Apple is selling now.
the only reasons one could go for a cheap PC is to play games. They are toys today. Get real and get a real computer: Get a Mac!
Consoles are better at games than any PC on the market. And cheaper.
Want Windows games, get an XBox but pleeeaaase, the old adagio “I go PC because of the games” is now pretty much retarded!
Jooop: Absolutely!! I think we were more in agreement than at first glance. And yes, I was referring to pre-Intel. As several people have commented on lately, OS X runs Doze better than Dull. And, there’s no doubt I will be moving to Intel sooner rather than later.
In the end: Re-read my comments. I’ve already said my main computer is a G5. I’ve also said I’ve got a sunk investment of a large amount of money in games than are no longer made, and, with rare exceptions, were NEVER MADE FOR ANY GAMING PLATFORM EXCEPT DOZE PC.
I have no interest in reinvesting money in a completely differant system. It would be about the same as having a large number of DVD films and now replacing everything with HD-DVD/BluRay.
I have what works for me. If I was just starting out in computing, I wouldn’t need, or use Doze, but I use what i have to the fullest.
JUST DONT CLICK ON THIS MEATHEADS SITE
The author sounds like Detroit circa 1980.
His view is the classic “we’re too big to fail” mentality.
“It doesn’t matter…whose version is better”
But it DOES matter! Build lousy products long enough, and it WILL eventually kill you.
People are not stupid. Who wants junk? Why settle for garbage because “everyone else” is using it? Isn’t it better to be objective, and choose products on quality & merits versus popularity?
The MS world needs to get wise to the fact they can’t survive on Windows XP and Office 2003 forever. Just like Detroit’s V8 engines from the 1950’s, the momentum WILL run out & replacements WILL have to be engineered.
MS, the clock is running; do you want to be part of the future or just part of the past?
I find people that use windoze VERY jealous of Mac users. especially when they see a bright new iMac on your desk, it makes then crazy to see something that looks and feels good. I have a friend that asks a few questions about the platform but won’t admit it’s a superior system. She bought a crapo PC box because she has a friend that used pcs since the 80’s and thinks he knows everything. The funny part is she can’t get the network working with her aunt. I love to see people that use winblows suffer. I offer no help to PC users accept to “Switch”
SOME PEOPLE CAN’T BE HELPED. (sad)
You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it.
I’m sure that “writer” cracks a real nice vertical smile.
I think one of the big things people don’t mention is that the frustration with MS has lead to MAJOR development in the Open Source community (which is excellent). Firefox has what – 30% share in the Windows browser arena? OpenOffice, Thunderbird, and other alternatives. And the entire Linux community are so fed up that they basically started their “own” OS. I believe Linux is the second largest player in the server market (please correct if wrong). MS has been taking so long to do anything and there is such a distrust of them, that it has spawned a huge grass roots movement – it’s great!
Sadly, after Vista is released – (almost) every PC that rolls off the assembly line will come pre installed with Vista and people will be buying them in droves – overall economy depending.
©: “(almost) every PC that rolls off the assembly line”
Well, I heard that Skynet will be running Vista SP8. <shudder>
Speaking as the second-in-command at a medium sized business, we’re so underwhelmed by Vista that we are specifically not planning any migration to Vista or Office 2007.
Now, to be clear, we were with Windows Server 2003 when it was still a release candidate, most of our machines are XP and all run Office 2003. So it’s not like we’re the type of company that’s afraid of jumping in head first.
What’s our alternative? We don’t know yet. I’m an avid Mac user, but I know half our staff, some of whom have problems finding the “Start” menu, would be needlessly confused with OSX. It’s definately not Linux either – far less user friendly than either OSX or Windows. For now, it looks like we’ll be holding on to XP with a death grip.
Until the end…
me:
You’re 100% right. That’s my sister and brother-in-law to a T. They just don’t care. Windows is a computer. A Mac is a kid’s toy. After 8 years of pain and agony with Windows they bought another Windows PeeCee.
I don’t want Apple to have gain a 90% market share with Macs and Mac OS X. That is unreasonable and probably even undesirable. But 10 to 20% is very doable, and it would make Apple a very profitable company. So the “Microsoft Way” can keep its “Microsoft/MSN/Hotmail generation.” Those that are not so brain-dead can move over to the “Macintosh Way.”
And the point that current Windows users will stick with Windows Vista assumes that Vista will actually be released at some point in the near future…
lbuschjr:
“Microsoft will sell a ton of Vista licenses because any new PC will come with it preinstalled.”
Yes, but wait till the “it’s all good” PC-user Chucky Two-bit eagerly boots his Starter or Home Basic edition of Vista and finds that all those “really cool” features that he has heard about for the past 10 years just won’t work on his under-powered $400 PC. Add to this the insult that boosting his system hardware is gonna run him several hundreds of dollars more plus the extra cost of purchasing the additional software to upgrade to Home Premium edition.
Chucky Two-bit ain’t gonna buy his way to Ultimate edition with all the freakin’ bells and whistles and a screamin’ PC. Mrs. Chucky won’t appreciate hubby spending mega bucks on his new toy. Believe me, when Chucky Two-bit can’t insert his hard drive into Mrs. Chucky’s slot he’ll be on e-bay before he can say “Microsoft sucks”.
Yeah, Chucky Two-bit ain’t gonna be flippin’ happy with Vista. Sure, he might not run to the nearest Apple store with a wallet full of cash, but he will feel cheated, isolated, and disrespected. Then he will get over it and limp into the future with his cheap ass PC and his impoverished version of Vista. Another untouchable in the PC-world caste system designed by Bill Gates and his crew of eugenics programmers.
Windows users usually aren’t all that keen to upgrade. More than 10% still use systems older than XP (mainly 98 and 2000). Two years ago, it was still more than a third!
So the Vista requirements will hardly cause a great commotion. The majority of Windows users has probably never heard of Vista.