Original article from 2/16 – please see UPDATES below.
Just a quick note that we’ve noticed that the latest version of Safari (1.2.4 (v125.12)) sometimes seems to allow pop under ads that we and other sites serve to appear even though “Block Pop-Up Windows” is checked in Safari. This never happened with any other version of Safari that we know of – and the network ad code (Fastclick) that we are using seems to be unchanged. It is happening to us on one of our recently updated machines (Mac OS X 10.3.8, Build 7U16, Safari 1.2.4 (v125.12).
MacDailyNews serves one pop-under ad per browser session per 24-hour period. We do not, have not, nor will we ever, run pop-up ads. You shouldn’t see more than one per 24-hour period per browser session from our site.
In the days before Safari, Mac users received these pop-under ads. Since Safari’s “Block Pop-Up Windows” feature, Mac users have gotten used to surfing without such ads. All along, MacDailyNews has continued to run such advertising to satisfy our need to actually pay our web host for the bandwidth we use. Before this issue with pop-under ads reappearing, the nice thing was that mainly the MDN visitors using Windows and Internet Explorer to visit the site were being served their daily allowance of one pop-under ad per day. Of course, they are used to receiving these types of ads and never even mentioned our pop-under ad. Oh, and the three Mac OS X users who are still using MSIE for Mac were seeing the daily ad, too. Thank you for your support.
So, the once per day pop-under ad has been running here as usual, you just might have forgotten it thanks to Safari’s ability to block it. It doesn’t seem to be happening to all Safari users, either. Please let us know what version of Safari (use “About Safari” under the Safari menu) you are using if you are suddenly receiving our pop-under ads even with Safari blocking enabled. Some users have also informed us that using the “Reset Safari” option has cleared up the issue.
We have not changed any code on MacDailyNews. If anyone has additional information, please let us know.
[UPDATE: 2/16, 11:06 am ET: We have replicated the issue with Firefox v 1.0 on the Mac. This would indicate that it is not an issue with Safari. It is also happening on other web sites, not just MDN. We are investigating to see if the network ad service’s code has changed. We’ll let you know what we find out. If you encounter ads while visiting other websites that also aren’t blocked when they should be, please let us know below. Thank you.]
[UPDATE: 2/20, 1pm ET: The silence from the network ad service(s) is deafening. Or maybe they didn’t get our 50+ emails? Anyway, until we understand exactly what’s going on and/or Apple fixes Safari’s pop up blocker to once again effectively block our pop-under ads for users that desire to block them, we will not be serving pop under ads. We’ll work to make up the lost revenue in some other way.]
[UPDATE: 2/22. 4:45pm ET: We are currently testing pop under ad codes. You may see a pop under ad or two during these tests. Thank you for your patience.]
[UPDATE: 2/22. 10:25pm ET: We are currently testing various pop-under ad codes. We have now been in contact with Fastclick and there is a way for our users who do not wish to accept pop-unders to opt out. Users who wish to opt-out of pop-under and other Fastclick ad network ads may do so by installing the Fastclick Opt-Out Cookie. If you choose to install this cookie, please consider buying any songs you wish via iTunes by launching iTunes via our left side column to launch iTunes or please consider patronizing our other sponsors via banner and text ads (such as Other World Computing, MacService, PowerMax, The Apple Store, The Apple iTunes Music Store, and others) as MacDailyNews will be unable to derive any Fastclick revenue from your visits. MacDailyNews is an ad-supported site and Fastclick is a major component of this site’s revenue and helps greatly in offsetting our operational costs. Thank you.]
At the request of several MDN readers, we’ve added our donation link here. If you enjoy MacDailyNews and would like to support the site, please click below to make a donation via PayPal:
Thank you for visiting MacDailyNews.
Related MacDailyNews articles:
Safari’s and Firefox’s Pop-Up Blockers broken? – February 16, 2005
I’ve been getting more thatn 1 ad per 24 hours i get a pop-up almost every time I go to MDN
Thank you! ‘Nuff said.
Two words: PithHelmet
That’s the right thing to do MDN. Thanks (even tho I have not been affected here yet I have seen it on other sites; no idea why).
Have you thought about putting up that “Support MDN” page I suggested? You could put a lot of affiliate links and maybe a paypal donation link on the page and anyone who wants to support MDN could click to go shopping for iTunes, etc from there and support the MDN site.
The only time i get pop-up/unders with Safari 1.2.4 is when i accidentally hit cmd-K in Safari instead of say the Finder (the connect to server command) – In all cases i’ve seen that the “Block pop-up windows” option was un-ticked, indicating 1 of my 10 thumbs as the culprit.
Good to see some ethics coming into play!
It’s pretty hard to criticize MDN when it has this kind of transparency. Very classy guys. I’ll keep coming here everyday for the latest news on Apple.
and that is why this is my favorite mac site.
Camino 0.82 joins Safari and Firefox in getting the one popup from MDN. iCab 3 dudn’t get them at all. In the old days I could force them to pop into a new tab in the background, from which they were handily dismissed, but it’s been a while since I’ve seen even that.
Thank you guys very much, although I didn’t really care, as I come for the content and any obstacles that are in my way wouldn’t matter. Again, very nice to see you guys pull this stuff down until you can figure out who is to blame.
Because of the pop ups MacDailyNews is dead to me. Rot in hell.
Well done guys – you made the right decision! I hope this can be worked out soon, for your sake as well as ours.
Thanks MDN. You are probably the only website in the world with enough balls to do this. You will be receiving a donation tomorrow.
proving once again that MDN is one of the best mac sites around. keeping it real
This article explains it is not just a Safari issue. In fact, it says advertisers are bragging about the ability to serve ads even with blockers in place: http://www.macfixit.com/article.php?story=20050218022511830
I’ll tell you what is more annoying, MacNN served up an add yesterday about swatting a fly. It came with sound effects of a flying buzzing around. I usually open sets of pages in tabs, so I had to hunt for the offending noise. Why on earth would somebody think annoying people would attract customers? I think pop-ups and pop-unders fit into the same category. People ignore them. They are a hassle to deal with.
Your[sic] Dead to Me, did you actually read MDN’s latest update? They killed the pop-under and you tell them to rot in hell?! Perhaps they are not the ones who should rot.
just when i was contemplating about not coming here anymore. WOW…
WOW…
nicely done. i think i will continue to return.
good good work! it was quite annoying!
I just install OS X version 10.2 on my new harddrive with old version of Safari. Pop up blocking also don’t work on older version of Safari.I save the older version of safari and run it in 10.3. Safari runs well but Pop up blocking don’t work.
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i have that stupid pop up thing happening to me on several sites.. not all…. but some…. however i took the advice of resetting the safari.. and well now i ahve that problem where you got ot a website and it errors out and have to try again.. i think i would rather have the pop under ads if you ask me……
mac
Thank you MDN. I have been receiving more than one per 24hrs. It seems to affect all browsers, Other sites are affected too. It seems MDN were the first to spot ths – although it has now reached Slashdot. Thank you for pulling the code – above the call of duty.
Gimme a break! It’s not like MDN is doing it intentionally to piss people off! They have to pay for this site in some way, it certainly isn’t free. At least it’s a pop under and some huge 800×600 popup that won’t go away. Jesus, get over it.
Thanks’ “macaddict” for the MacFixIt link explaining that it is most likely the advertisers that have found a way around the Pop-Up Blockers and that the arrival of 10.3.8 is just a coincidence.
The link is worth repeating,
http://www.macfixit.com/article.php?story=20050218022511830
fastclick apparantly has an optout cookie to block their own ads. I don’t know if it works.
http://www.fastclick.com/v4/safe_optout.go
“MacDailyNews serves one pop-under ad per browser session per 24-hour period. We do not, have not, nor will we ever, run pop-up ads.”
You say that as if pop-ups are evil and pop-unders are ok. Sorry, but you’ve got that backwards. I totally don’t mind if a site serves any number of pop-up ads per page viewed on their site. If it’s too many pop-ups per page viewed *I* can decide that it’s not worth it, and no longer visit the site. The same is true with interstitial ads…see The Onion, which is honest and direct about the ads.
What really pisses me off is when the ads can’t easily be tracked back to the site that served them. Pop-unders do this! You might go to close your browser and discover a large number of pop-under ads consuming resources…or time to deal with. It’s no longer a question of if MDN is worth the ads, but rather who the &$#*! is popping these ads!
Now that I know it’s from you, I’ll be less likely to visit…not because of the ads (in that you deserve revenue), but rather because I don’t feel you’ve been honest and direct about it.
BTW: Even if the pop-unders state that they came from MDN, it’s still far more obnoxious than pop-ups in that you don’t know they’re there.
Please reconsider your policy and either do pop-ups or interstitial ads if you need additional revenue.
Macslut,
What exactly about the following sentence did you not understand?
“Until we understand exactly what’s going on and/or Apple fixes Safari’s pop up blocker to once again effectively block our pop-under ads for users that desire to block them, we will not be serving pop under ads.”
Read the article before you comment next time, you stupid Macslut.
Amen Chad! “They have to pay for this site in some way, it certainly isn’t free. At least it’s a pop under and some huge 800×600 popup that won’t go away. Jesus, get over it.”
I wouldn’t mind if it were one per session not just one per day. Sometimes we mac users can be too easy to offend. We have it the best online lifestyle with no viruses/no pop ups/little junk mail. But the reason there are so many sites that provide valuable services for free, is that they can cover their costs through advertising. People that gripe about these ads can go to a paid subscription site. The rest of us will “pay” for the content provided by taking two seconds to close an ad.
BTW MacDailyNews, it’s great that you took down your ad, but I think you put it back and tell the whiners to get over it.
(Brought to you by . . . Thank you MDN for your EFFORTS)
MDN, one of the ads is a link for T-shirts, but there is little choice.
Maybe putting some energy into that could bring some revenue more than ads do.
I am coming here every day since a year or so, and I guess I have never clicked on a single ad.
Not many ads are of interest to me, and I find most of them are usually not well targeted to a Mac audience.
I think the audience here is likely to buy Mac stuff if there was more choice and better designs.
Just my opinion.
I’ve been getting no pop-up/under ads… I’m using Safari 1.2 (V125) So I just don’t understand what you all are complaining about.
The over Ad-Served nation is making me sick. One day these morons are going to realize that the ever more overly intrusive advertising we see turns most of us off. The AOL animation of Fox Sports Daytona Coverage and running AOL man on the grass in the Bowl Games makes me MORE likely to NEVER want to use their product/service. Someone needs to poll internet users and show how worthless pop-ups are. No positive response= no ads= no more pop-ups. While I’m ranting- lets stop the bottom of the screen ads/promos during the programs on TV. 19 minutes of ads per hour (broadcast) and 20+ (cable) is beyond the pale.
Thanks to MDN for being so above board about the whole issue.
Want to tell the Pop-Up *&%#!(&*%()?$%# what you think about them. Try this one-
admin@popuptraffic.com
Send them an e-mail and tell them what you really think.
Here’s some contact information for fastclick, the company whose code this is. Everyone should call and express your sentiments.
fastclick*
360 Olive Street
Santa Barbara , CA 93101
Tel: (805) 568-5334
Fax: (425) 969-8552
x141 Kurt Johnson
x162 ???
x111 Andrew Arnold
x112 Matt Edinger
x113 Shane Mac???
x114 ???
x121 ???
x131 ???
x181 Matt Kaye
Laura Fulton cell phone
805/551-2482
She’s assistant to a few of the execs there. Give her a call and tell her that you dislike their product. In fact everyone should call her a dozen times or so. That way she’ll know what its like to be constantly interrupted. She did say that I should contact Matt Kaye at x181, so mayber everyone should try contacting him first. Then if the popups continue call her.
Sorry Laura – actually I’m not sorry. I’m tired of you’re company’s intrusions and impositions on my machine, maybe now you’ll know what its like to be contantly interrupted by someone or something that you have no control over.
NoPCZone, I agree 100%.
I gave up on watching TV 5 years ago. Don’t own a TV set. Commercials every 10 minutes during a movie is no way of treating an audience. People are accepting that ? I don’t understand.
I also never read the newspapers. Ever. We are being brainwashed. Journalists are manipulating the way we think. All they care about is getting people to read their lies and get cash from advertizers.
Millions of things are happening every second. What are we going to do with all this information… OK, there was a terrible car accident yesterday. What am I going to do about it ? What do I have more now that I know it ? They are not essential you know. We needs the media ?
Most people don’t even see that something is wrong. Brainwashed I tell you.
pop-up/under blocker is NOT broken… just tricked!
as far as i can see the pop-under code gets around the blocker in a very simple way…
just look at the code:
<!– FASTCLICK.COM POP-UNDER CODE v1.7e for macdailynews.com –>
<script language=”JavaScript” type=”text/javascript”><!–
var doc=document; var url=escape(doc.location.href); var date_ob=new Date();
doc.cookie=’h2=o; path=/;’;var bust=date_ob.getSeconds();
if(doc.cookie.indexOf(‘e=llo’) <= 0 && doc.cookie.indexOf(‘2=o’) > 0){
doc.write(‘<scr’+’ipt language=”javascript” src=”http://media.fastclick.net’);
doc.write(‘/w/pop.cgi?sid=9769&m=2&v=1.7e&u=’+url+’&c=’+bust+'”></scr’+’ipt>’);
date_ob.setTime(date_ob.getTime()+43200000);
doc.cookie=’he=llo; path=/; expires=’+ date_ob.toGMTString();} // –>
</script>
<!– FASTCLICK.COM POP-UNDER CODE v1.7e for macdailynews.com –>
the trick they use is to HIDE the actual script by using the doc.write and +way of writing the code:
doc.write(‘<scr’+’ipt language=”javascript” src=”http://media.fastclick.net’);
doc.write(‘/w/pop.cgi?sid=9769&m=2&v=1.7e&u=’+url+’&c=’+bust+'”></scr’+’ipt>’);
instead of writing:
<script language=”javascript” src=”http://media.fastclick.net/w/pop.cgi?sid=9769&m=2&v=1.7e&u=’+url+’&c=’+bust+'”></script>;
because the latter will trigger the pop-up blocker of safari!
note to Apple and webmasters:
just check for this kind of scripting!!!!!!!!
NO pop-ups or UNDERS with OmniWeb, The only browser (mostly) that I use.
But as a person who serves the advertising world, and even if I didn’t, I recognize the need for advertising to help pay the freight to make excellent websites like this possible. Call me crazy, but I let SOME advertising through on sites like MDN, because I occasionally see an ad I want to click on, and I feel it’s my way of ‘paying’ my way. Or I’ll click on that PayPal banner above and kick in some real money instead of eyeball time.
It all comes down to “how much is too much?”. Is one popper too many? No? Five, Twenty?
Should we have to whack and hack our way through multiple levels of pop-ups to get to the content? That’s the ethical question we have to ask ourselves.
Clearly we have to ‘pay’ somehow. Are static banners the most we should tolerate? Can they twitch? Animate like dizzy tadpoles?
Should we allow them to pop-up? The guys at MDN gotta eat, and we KNOW that if if MDN went to mandatory subscription model (like the Wall Street Journal) 95% of us would flee. Unless it was more than $9.99 a year. Maybe $4.99 a year.
But people will only tolerate so much ‘in your face’ advertising. Broadcast TV has increased from 9 minutes an hour (it was that way for decades) to the current mind-numbing 19 minutes an hour.
OUCH.
David Vesey
Damn decent of you to stop your pop-unders MDN. I say bring ’em back! If your decent enough to stop because Mac users are being affected, I don’t mind clicking them if you get some revenue.
one pop-up is infinitely to many.
if the banners don’t pay for the site then the price on the banners is to low.
I think it’s ridiculous to put the finances of this site at risk just to appease a few pre-teen nerds who can’t handle a single pop-up/under ad.
“ooooohhhhh but it’s using my precious resources!” -Dude you need to really think about what you are saying. If you have a noticeable difference in performance because of ONE extra ad from this site then you need a new computer or you need to learn how to set up your machine properly as something is seriously wrong. I’m betting you’re also one of these people that obsesses about their uptime.
“How dare MDN try to make ends meet whilst providing a free service that i love and use every day!” -Get over it, MDN is a good read (most of the time). When you buy a magazine you not only get ads printed in amongst the articles but you also usually get a few bits of junk falling out too. Pop ups are just part of this style of advertising. Web sites need to make money somehow, ignore the ads and get over yourselves.
I wonder how many of you complainers will be using the donation link?
MDN: I say weed out the complainers, bring back the ad and let them find another site to bitch on.
petervrdk you said it ! And to be honest: you are wright !
That is why I sticked to Apple; even when it was proclaimed dead.
Honestly, The “pop-under” ads just atrted poping up when visiting MDN. They are just as annoying as “pop-ups”. I would think that MDN would understand that Apple added “pop-up” blockers because cusotmers find them to be annoying and would prefer not to have them. Guys there are plenty of ads running along the side of your site, so please do not allow “pop-unders”!!!!
I have the same problem viewing articles on Forbes. Nothing seems to work to keep the ads from appearing.
Great work, MDN! Stopping the pop-under shows respect for your readers. That’s going to win you a lot of loyalty, and I bet some of us will even make a point of buying things from your banner advertisers. One pop-under ad is not worth offending your readers. Good decision.
Respectfully,
RT
BTW, when will the pop-unders stop?? I’m still getting them.
Thanks again.
I just made a paypal donation. But I still see the pop-under script in the MDN source code. I’m more than happy to support this site. It’s one of the most valuable and I visit several times a day.
Macintosh with an attitude!
Rob
RT,
You’re using cached code. I was doing the same thing, too. Force refresh your browser to make sure you’re looking at the latest MDN site code – the pop under code has been removed.
The web site http://www.drudgereport.com/ also has a once-per-day pop-under ad with Safari 1.2.4 (v125.12) with “block pop-up windows” turned on.
Someone needs to do a large survey to show the ad buyers that this eternal saturation of advertising DOES NOT WORK- it just pisses people off. I did not buy a PowerMac G5 and get a Cable Modem to be constantly barraged by advertising. I have no problem with traditional ad placement, but anything that intrudes Pop-Ups, Pop-Unders is Bullsh*t.
I don’t want to see ANY “Pop-unders” or “Pop-ups” at all, period. You can get rid of the “Pop-under” ads completely by adding the ‘hosts’ file from the following web site to your Mac. (http://everythingisnt.com/hosts.html). Follow the Macintosh OS X instructions and you will not see any “Pop-unders” again. I (and many others) have tested this extensively, with numerous web sites that implement the code for “Pop-unders” and it works flawlessly. I have over 24 years experience as a Systems Analyst with various OSes and systems ranging from mainframes (dating myself) to all other machines. Personally, I don’t care to be “force-fed” any advertisements from anyone. By the way, Safari’s ‘Block Pop-Up Windows’ works great, just add the ‘hosts’ file and you won’t see any. You can verify that it is working by checking Safari’s Activity window and you will see ‘tons’ (literally) of pop-ups and unders being stopped dead in their tracks. Give it a try, you’ll be much happier!!!
Thanks for the info!
what are you all talking about, i use firefox and i have not one pop-under or pop-up on mdn…
no special stuff done on hostfiles..
perhaps you all allowed popups from mdn when you saw the header that a popup got blocked from mdn
Kudos to MDN for their action to re-think the use of pop-unders. Understanding that serving adverts by way of media that people do not wish to see, which, consequently, results in lower ad revenue, is nothing more than the next step in finding the correct way to advertise for that product/site. I have no issues with advertising on web sites, only with those I (and apparently many others) find annoying.
The idio…er…brain trust at Popuptraffic.com seemingly do not understand this, and as a result are selling a service virtually guaranteed to peeve a web site’s readers off. You don’t get many messages across by beating the recipients’ heads in with bigger, uglier clubs. Pop-up blockers would not exist if pop-ups/unders were a welcomed medium.
Everyone should go to drudgereport and send him a news tip telling him what an annoyance they are. That’ll flip the table on him. Imagine a thousand people a day sending messages telling him to can the popups. Oh, you don’t like them, they’re simple to close, just a simple click each. Eventually, he’ll get sick of it and hopefully stop them.
Gotta go send in my tip to drudge – ‘Stop the f*ing popps!!!!’
I’ll try this again
http://www.fastclick.com/v4/safe_optout.go
Helps to stop unwanted ads.
MDN why are you deleting my posts? Please reply.
This issue is specifically related to how Fastclick launches their windows. The use a function that is called within a condition. This allows them to circumvent the logic of the built-in pop-up blocker in these browsers. My advice to the more technically astute of you is to block the following domains in your lookupd file:
media.fastclick.net
fastclick.net
http://www.fastclick.net
cdn.fastclick.net
fastclick.com
http://www.fastclick.com
There’s a number of tutorials on the web explaining this process. You’ll need to setup a superuser account and run some utilities from the command line.
BTW, I think pop-under ads are even more obnoxious than pop-up ads. At least with pop-ups, there aren’t any suprises when you’re shutting down your browser, and you aren’t left with windows chewing up memory that you aren’t aware of. This site’s policy does not earn any brownie points with me.
http://www.lampfire.com
I mentioned this some time ago, but I hate PayPal and refuse to use them. MDN, please provide an alternative service for donations and, like others, I can consider helping.
By the way, like David Vesey, I also use OmniWeb and have not seen a single pop-up or pop-under ad.
OmniWeb is a powerful, feature laden browser.
It costs $30, but if you browse a lot, or make your money from the web it is worth it.
It has almost everything you need built in, and after a few weeks many become essential to your web surfing.
Try it.
DV
BTW, I’m no programmer, but I believe apps like Safari DECIDE whether to let a pop-up thru. Whether it appears automatically or is a link clicked on.
OmniWeb only lets pop-ups thru that are REQUESTED, as in a link on a website that resolves itself as a pop-up, which seems more sensible.
I think I’m getting this right, but whatever it is, it works 100% for me.
DV
petervrdk
You may have hit on something…. !!
People who believe their obnoxious pop-up / under ads dont annoy web surfers… have been aware of the blocker trends in many Browsers for some time now… and have been trying to figure a way around the blockers…
It seems they have… and you may have found the “how” …
But for those interested in what could be another weapon in your arsenal in the war against those unwanted annoyances… take a look at ..THIS open-source solution…
I cant speak for its effectiveness, because I am among those who are not getting the pop-ups or pop-unders …. but hey… if it works.. great !!
ERK!!!
Vesey Here.
I see reports that OmniWeb is letting pop-unders through with OS 10.3.8.
I’m using 10.3.6.
Uh-Oh.
david vesey
Holy Toledo.
I upgraded my CUBE to 10.3.8 AND STILL NO POP-UPS OR UNDERS WITH OMNIWEB 5.
So, OmniWeb. The winnah and still champeen!!
Try it.
david vesey
David Vesey,
I also use OW in paid mode in 10.3.8. I also have not experienced pop-ups or pop-unders. It occurs to me that perhaps my security software may also be involved (NetBarrier) in keeping those ads away. I don’t know. Just a thought.
You could also use Google AdSense and hide it with CSS. This way, it would still be loaded, but it wouldn’t appear on the page!
hg Wells et al:
All I’m running are the basic browsers with various ad blocking apps, like Safari and Pith Helmet. I still go back to Safari for some things. I don’t have Net Barrier or anything else exotic running. I look at FireFox only as a curiosity. It’s free, and you can certainly add on other plug-ins, but it doesn’t approach the raw power of OmniWeb. BTW, OmniWeb is just recently out of beta and not as trim racy or sleek as Safari. There are some speed hits you will take because it’s an aircraft carrier, not a PT Boat. But I can live with it. I expect speed gains in the future as all the bugs are worked out and the features refined.
Overall, Pith Helmet looks more robust than the ad blocking in OmniWeb, but OW 5 has it where it counts, and I have no complaints.
DV
I’m getting popunders in Omniweb no matter what the settings. Anyway I turned off Javascript in FireFox, restarted it, turned it back on, restarted once more and since then…not one pop (under or up). Seems to work in Camino as well.
No popups under IE 6 . How Ironic.
KernelPanic (how appropriate for a Wintel troll),
I’ve yet to have a pop-up or “pop-under” with Safari, FireFox, Camino, or any other non-IE browser. Frankly, I avoid using Internet Exploder at all costs – even on my Wintel mules, so I can’t attest to anything popping in that app.
I think they use a small Flash clip to launch the pop-unders. Example here:
http://www.kephyr.com/popupkillertest/test/test13.html
Yeah, MDN is the only place I get popups under Safari..
BSOD (how appropriate for an Apple Bigot)
The pop-ups are caused by Flash. What a surprise. The junk gets junkier. To disable flash in Safari, remove the files ‘Flash Player.plugin’ and ‘flashplayer.xpt’ from the /Library/Internet Plug-Ins folder. I removed flash and I’ve never enjoyed using the internet more. Many sites load faster too.
Anybody knows where to download a pop up blocker for MSIE 5.2 Macintosh version ….. I could not find any … does anybody know ….