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I wonder if Apple will cause Gateway to finally die, take market share from Dell and HP and send Lenovo back where they came from?

Apple moving closer to being able to work with Windows???

Apple considers Sun's ZFS for Mac OS X
http://www.macnn.com/articles/06/05/01/zfs.for.mac.os.x/

Apple is considering porting Sun's modern performance file system to Mac OS X. Developed for Sun's Solaris 10 operating system, the ZFS file system offers extremely fast performance, support for virtually unlimited capacity, advanced data integrity routines, and more. ZFS, based on a transactional object model, removes most of the traditional constraints on the order of issuing I/Os, which results in "huge performance gains," according to Sun.

Sun touts the ZFS as "endian-neutral," allowing users to use storage disks in different computers with different processors.

Truth be told, most people just don't care or see no purpose in multiple OSs on the same computer, this is such a none issue it's funny. Apple will be lucky to pick up 0.1% market share increase from Boot Camp or other similiar software. If I had an Intel Mac, I'd install it as I have one piece of software I could use at home, but I'm not like the other 99.9% of computer users and either are most people reading MDN.

People are always quick to point out that Apple can't compete with the $599 Dell/HP/Gateway crap. True. Instead, Apple will ignore the slim margin at the bottom of the market and compete at a profitable level. This means that if Dell/HP/Gateway do lose sales to Apple it will be from their more expensive models that actually have some profit in the price tag. Dell, HP and Gateway should be worried about their profits.

Just wait for the FUDmeisters to crank this one up: They'll claim that Mac machines can now attract malware designed for a "wide range of operating systems."

If a Windows owner hates Windows and buys a Mactel, he is not going to put Windows on his Mactel.

If a Windows owner loves Windows he will not buy a Mac.

This porting is for a very small number of Mac owners that see the need for running a Windows-only program.

Dell and others should be worried if for some reason Windows XP and other Windows software on a Mac runs faster and better than on Dell hardware.

how long before Apple is accused of world domination?

If Apple could figure out a way to shield the Mac from malware on the windows partition, then they would have a real selling point to the unwashed masses. Imagine that the only secure way to run windows is to run it on a mac. Is it possible? Apple is adventurous and innovative, but I don't know if even they have the smarts or the resources to pull it off. It would certainly distract from other necessary things.

God IntelliTXT is annoying. Unbelievable.

If you couldn't go with macs because of some critical work application, now you can. Or if one spouse wants mac, and the other windows...here's a solution.

Re: Queezzie

"If a Windows owner hates Windows and buys a Mactel, he is not going to put Windows on his Mactel."

Though you are right that most users moving because they hate MS are going to try to avoid using boot camp, they will like having the safety net should they discover something they have to do that simply requires windows ... though if it is not a game they would be better off with virtualization software.

"If a Windows owner loves Windows he will not buy a Mac."

This is not true either. There are a large number of people that envy the stylishness of the mac hardware, but have no desire to switch (usually because they do not know what they are missing). These are generally upscale customers willing to pay a premium for style - and they may see just enough of Mac OS X to develop an appreciation for Apple's style in software too.

"This porting is for a very small number of Mac owners that see the need for running a Windows-only program."

If you believe this then you must be in a niche market. EVERY mac owner I know save one requires a PC to run something. 3 have already bought intel Macs since boot camp came out. Several more are simply waiting for their PC to die to replace it with an intel Mac so they can use it for both. Several more are just waiting for "wife approval"

"Dell and others should be worried if for some reason Windows XP and other Windows software on a Mac runs faster and better than on Dell hardware."

They need to be worried - big time. They work on much lower margins because a significant portion of their sales are the low end computers in the $500 range. The can expect to see these profits dip even further. The real problem is that they will sell just as many bargain systems but well sell fewer of the mid to high end systems that Apple will be pulling away. The performance of windows on the mac is on par with that of PC's with similar hardware. Apple will now be using the same CPU's as they are so the performance should be expected to stay on par with their systems. Dell and HP will now face yet another round of shrinking margins while their stockholders what Apple's shares skyrocketing. This is a bad combination for companies selling virtual commodities.

"This porting is for a very small number of Mac owners that see the need for running a Windows-only program."

Time will tell how large the dual-boot or virtualization group will be. In the short run, I suspect a key value will be to prevent any further defection of mac users to Windows, an unfortunate but undeniable reality over the past 10 years -- I've even wavered several times given my need to run Windows-specific programs. Now anyone inclined to stay on the mac side will have no problem doing so, and as dual-boot and virtualization mature with Leopard, they will provide a nice insurance policy for a steady stream of switchers. Frankly, Apple couldn't handle the logistics of rapid, massive upswing in switchers, so a steady climb of a point or two in market share per year would probably suit them just fine.

If a Windows owner hates Windows and buys a Mactel, he is not going to put Windows on his Mactel.

wrong


If a Windows owner loves Windows he will not buy a Mac.

wrong again



This porting is for a very small number of Mac owners that see the need for running a Windows-only program.

wrong, yet gain... see a pattern?



Dell and others should be worried if for some reason Windows XP and other Windows software on a Mac runs faster and better than on Dell hardware.

right

Apple doesn't sell low end crap so Dell has no worries!

"how long before Apple is accused of world domination?"

On the same day Ballmer stops hurting innocent office furniture.

Dell and HP concerned?
Maybe...They both seem to cater the business market more so than the consumer market.

However, those individuals that have a choice are now given the ammunition to move to Apple only without the need to buy another computer. This can only be good news for the Apple faithful.

Question: Is it still a Mac if it's running Windows? Or is it just an Apple computer?

The only way to get a virus on a Mac is to install XP on it via Boot Camp and run it naked on the net.

Anyone who tells you otherwise is a complete idiot.

If a Windows owner hates Windows and buys a Mactel, he is not going to put Windows on his Mactel.

right
-------
If a Windows owner loves Windows he will not buy a Mac.

right again

-----------
This porting is for a very small number of Mac owners that see the need for running a Windows-only program.

right, yet gain... see a pattern?

------------
Dell and others should be worried if for some reason Windows XP and other Windows software on a Mac runs faster and better than on Dell hardware.

right

I think this bootcamp beta is more of a defensive-type move my Apple to keep Apple owners from buying a Windows PC.
For all Apple´s efforts over the last years it´s Market share as barely budged upwards. That means for every Window switching to Mac, their are also Mac people buying Windows machines.
(I know, I am one of them. And I know three others.)
Hoping that Leopard has some nice surprise in it regarding running Windows programs then my next computer might be an Apple.

I hope next summers Mac Mini line has 200+ GB hard drives...cause I SOOOO want to run Linux and Windows.

Ya know this is all about choice. Apple is right there offering choices that Dull and HP can't. Let the winblows folks run xp on their macs. How many mac users run VPC because we have to for an oddball app right now even before Bootcamp?

This is the beginning of the demise of Monkey Boy and the minions of the mediocre. The strategy is sheer genius. I will never dual boot my mac, virtualize YES, but right now this is for the windows croud.

Besides, how many other hardware people are building EFI into their little "real pcs"(LOL Monkey Boy hope you fester in your own puffiness...hehe)?

This will force the other hardware companies to push for EFI, since it is much better than the dated BIOS. Who are they gonna push.......MonkeyBoy!

Vista may or may not be EFI compatible, time will tell, and I say this as the Vista specs change daily it seems. BUT you will see the hardware folks pushing M$ a bit, and at that point, all we have to do is dual boot to our hearts content, virtualize if we want, and watch our APPL stock.

BIOS is old dated and dead, Apple just proved it, and now M$ will have to content withg being BIOS AND EFI compatible...love that little twist....think it might make the trainwreck explode, could be...HAHAHAHAHA

gheem: "I will never dual boot my mac, virtualize YES, but right now this is for the windows croud."

Why, for the windows crowd? You can run XP with virtualization in Mac with Intel and shield XP from the net: XP in a box unable to 'talk' to the net. The only 'secure' Windows.

Look at parallels.com

iPodder....

I am talking about virtualization like Parrallels or VPC. I use that.

What I am saying is that I will never dual boot a native xp install onto a physical partion.

With virtualization, I can copy/paste, blah blah, and I actually run Solaris, Linux, and a few other OS's built for x86.

But I do not want to reboot my mac into a native install of XP.

Sorry about the confusion........

Offering Windows support provides those with a catalogue of windows programmes - especially kids programmes - the option to switch the replacement family PC without the kids going bananas.

When they have tried the OSX software that comes bundled in iLife they will use Windows less and less. Its a well placed strategy to break the 5-6% barrier that has kept Apple small ( in world domination terms that is).

It's like tickling trout. You have to coax the conservative and those with limited means gradually.

God IntelliTXT is annoying. Unbelievable.

Even more annoying are the people who keep complaining about it helplessly rather than just editing their hosts file or downloading a safari plugin to block it. I edited my host file weeks ago and haven't seen an intellitxt link since.

You should see how fast a virtual windows 98 machine runs on a QUAD. Fast enough to play some of my old games thru a software 3d render, so for me, I would much rather virtualize if I need use to use windows. Again it is a matter of choice.

Apple is positioning itself... as a total cross hardware solution.

There are instances where people or companies like the stylish looks and reliability of Apple hardware but need to run Windows, Linux, Unix etc.

The smart successful computer professional will now buy a Mac as this gives them the most flexability.

Put on a PC hat at corporate, Linux at the geek convention, Unix at the science convention and Mac OS X at home.

beat the annoyance stuff here homepage.mac.com/hogfish/Personal25.html

Our vertical market, construction estimating tools are Windows-only. This means that in the past, our potential customers running Macs were stuck buying a PC or had to deal with the molasses speed of Virtual PC.

Now with the new virtualization software on the Mac, they can run our software and still stay in the solid OS X environment for the rest of their tasks. I know many of these companies would gladly buy a new Mac with an Intel chip just to run our products.

So in the end, Apple didn't necessarily gain market share here, but did make more sales (and Dell or some other PC vendor lost sales). It's all good.

Kevin,

BootCamp is not virtualization software, it allows a true native install, VPC or Parrallels is virtualization software. I agree with you, options are a good thing, but I think some folks out there are getting native install and virtualization software mixed up

gheem,

I am very aware of what Boot Camp is and it is (and that is useless for most people). The most important part of Boot Camp is the drivers CD for Windows. I'm talking about the real virtualization software that is out now in beta from Parallels and soon will shipping from others as well. I'm fairly confident that Apple will offer this in Leopard, which will fully legitimize it.

I probably should have clarified my statements.

Kevin, I figured you knew just by reading your post.

I was just mentioning that for others who might not get the difference or the implications of all this. I lveo virtual machines, use them daily, nice and safe, and great for "testing" or hosing an OS without any hassle.

Right now I am typing this on a virtual SUSE 10 linux machine thru vmware on an xp box at work.

I would love to see VMware on my quad, yeah I have the last of the PPC interceptors, and for me and the graphics I do, it is perfect. That is highly unlikely, though I hear VMware is working on a Macintel version....oh well.

It's nice to see the concept of moron in a hurry live on! Although, morons with time on their hands are much more annoying. They are usually the ones caught up in a heated political fight on a computing technology discussion thread. Easy to spot.

oooooo noooo, "Windows Explorer has encountered a problem and needs to close, We are sorry for the inconvenience."

guess this xp machine is goonnnaaa CRASH AGAIN.....MEH what a crappy machine/OS Dell/winBLOWS can make!!!!!

I'll run Windows on my new Macbook Pro (or Intel iBook) using Parallels, whenever that purchase is made. Partially out of curiosity. But mostly because I want to put the wind up those anti-Apple IT drones at my work (and where ever else I encounter them in my travels).
God, can't wait to see the look on their faces. Hehehehehe!

Oh, and who would seriously switch from Mac OS X to Windows?? Urgh! Be like swapping the silk purse for a sow's ear.

the fact that you get shitty speed using apps like After Effects, Combustion, Maya, Photoshop (not as big an issue as 3D/video apps tho) and whatnot of other apps will hurt sales far more in the pro-environment than everything else. Wow, now I can use Win-only apps. Indeed great, but if you ask me, I'd rather have those Pro apps with native speed than an additional OS...or two. Okay, when the day comes, in about 9+ months or so, these machines make alot of sense. Until then it will be a sad situation for operators who want something faster.

The “common wisdom” years ago was that schools should only have Windows PC’s for student because, as it was vehemently touted, the students need to learn how to operate computers that are predominant in the “real world”. That is, locking students into the singularly exclusive platform of Windows would be the most practical means of indoctrination. In retrospect, one must evaluate if this narrow-minded attitude and restrictive approach to learning is truly beneficial.

Now, Macs can run OS X, Windows, and Linux. Tomorrow Mac’s will likely run Sun Solaris. Should we provide students with a varied educational experience by allowing them to study the diverse theories and practice of computer language and programming? Should we permit student to experiment with different methods of building and testing code? Should we encourage student to develop innovative means of integrating computer science into business, industry, science, and the home?

If one assumes that learning entails a liberal education (and I use the term philosophically and not politically) then one needs to ask:

Which platform, Mac or PC, offers the student the greatest potential for learning and developing the aptitude and insight of programming and computer science?

Which platform, Mac or PC, offers the student the most vibrant, comprehensive, and complete computing and programming experiences?

Should we provide our students with a well-balanced nutritional diet of Mac, or the thin watery gruel of “PC”?

Moe said: "God IntelliTXT is annoying. Unbelievable."

Couldn't agree more. MDN, if you're going to do something like that, why not actually have the links be useful (ala wiki) instead of stupid ass ads?

Moe knows annoyance.

"Frankly, Apple couldn't handle the logistics of rapid, massive upswing in switchers, so a steady climb of a point or two in market share per year would probably suit them just fine"

I don't know this is actually true or not.. it's been a major issue in the past, but I think the primarily constraint has been CPUs from Motorolla and IBM. Now they are going with Intel, I think they could ramp up production to meet rapid growth in demand faster than we've been used to. At least this has not been seriously tested yet. True the Mac Book Pros were in short supply early on but that was because Core Duo chips were brand spankin' new and if demand for Macs rises rapidly I think Apple and Intel could meet the challenge.

We'll have to wait and see tho.