“It seems that everywhere you turn these days the age old feud between the Hatfields and the McCoys of the personal computing world, Apple and Microsoft, is resurfacing. In this epoch, however, the battlefield is not just desktop computing but online entertainment, whether it be music downloads or high definition video,” Stan Beer reports for iTWire.
“Microsoft has already publicly declared its hand in the high definition video war, lining up firmly behind the Toshiba led HD DVD camp. The software giant turned games console maker plans to incorporate HD DVD into its Xbox 360 platform in direct opposition to games console king and Blu-ray champion Sony,” Beer reports.
“Meanwhile, Apple has kept a relatively low profile in the building optical disc war as far as the general consumer public is concerned. In fact, however, Apple has already declared its hand. Apple is board member of the Blu-ray Disc Association. This, as others have pointed out, would suggest very strongly that Blu-ray players will be a feature of future Macintosh computers,” Beer reports.
“Apple, which has always been a technology driven company, appears to be in the Blu-ray camp and, given its once again growing influence in the home computer market, will, like Sony PlayStation 3, be a critical driver of Blu-ray going forward,” Beer reports.
Full article here.
MacDailyNews Note: Apple CEO Steve Jobs announced on March 10, 2005 that Apple was “pleased to join the Blu-ray Disc Association board as part of our efforts to drive consumer adoption of HD.”
According to The Blu-ray Disc Association’s website, HD DVD’s pre-recorded capacities are 15 GB for a single layer disc, or 30 GB for a double layer disc. Blu-ray Disc provides 67% more capacity per layer at 25 GB for a single layer and 50GB for a double layer disc. It’s par for the course that Apple backs the superior format while Microsoft supports the inferior one.
It does, however, bear noting that Apple is playing both sides of the fence in a wait and see mode. According to a press release from April 17, 2005, “Apple is committed to both emerging high definition DVD standards—Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD. Apple is an active member of the DVD Forum which developed the HD DVD standard, and last month joined the Board of Directors of the Blu-ray Disc Association.”
Related articles:
Ricoh creates ‘universal’ optical disk lens; reads and writes Blu-ray, HD DVD, DVD, and CD – July 10, 2006
Blu-ray Disc blank media hits U.S. shelves – May 22, 2006
Blu-ray Disk Associaton: we’ll win DVD format war over HD-DVD – May 12, 2006
RUMOR: Apple asks studios to include iPod video content on Blu-ray discs – April 25, 2006
Sony postpones PlayStation 3 release until November due to Blu-ray delay – March 15, 2006
Broadcom announces decoder chip that plays both Blu-ray and HD DVD – January 03, 2006
Forrester Research: Apple-backed Blu-ray will win over Microsoft-backed HD DVD – October 20, 2005
BusinessWeek: ‘it looks as if HD DVD’s days are numbered’ – October 07, 2005
China to develop own as-yet-unnamed DVD format; Blu-ray vs. HD DVD vs ? – October 07, 2005
Paramount’s decision gives Blu-ray slight lead over HD DVD in next gen DVD format war – October 04, 2005
Record set straight on Blu-ray Disc Association’s superior high definition format – September 29, 2005
Microsoft backs cheaper, less sophisticated, lower capacity HD DVD over Apple-backed Blu-ray format – September 27, 2005
Twentieth Century Fox joins Apple, Dell, HP, others to support Blu-ray Disc format – July 29, 2005
Poll shows Apple-backed Blu-ray preferred by consumers over HD DVD for next-gen DVD standard – July 14, 2005
Microsoft allies with Toshiba on HD-DVD vs. Blu-ray Disc backers Apple and Sony – June 27, 2005
Apple joins Blu-ray Disc Association Board of Directors – March 10, 2005
first?
Apple better play both sides of the fence until there is a winner. Beta was better too. Does Microsoft still have the clout to force the market to a lesser standard? Possibly. If the media takes off on computers first they have the numbers. But if consumer electronics lead the way then they will be forced to adopt whatever the rest of the world does.
It seems that the smart move would be to use ricoh’s newly announced lenses that will support both Blue-Ray and HD-DVD in a single mechanism. Now if only the cost would come down. Anyone who would spend over $200 for a DVD player is an idiot. Spending the current $1,000 for a Blue Ray player is simply beyond words.
I bid 300,000 quatloos on Apple.
Me, too. Quadroopoolns and quintooploons.
In the end, both platforms will support, er, both platforms…
PS: Who gives a ratz ass which technology is used, they are both better than current DVD implementations..
Both formats will be obsolete before there’s a winner.
Just give us flexible drives that can handle both.
“Microsoft supports the inferior one”. Just because HD-DVD has a lower capacity doesn’t make it inferior. I believe it’s a little early to be making statements like that.
Windoze,
My understanding is that Ricoh’s new lens setup is for read-only drives, not read and write.
Which pretty much makes them useless in computer setups, where most users are going to want to write data.
“Who gives a ratz ass which technology is used, they are both better than current DVD implementations.”
Typical Windows/Microsoft attitude if you ask me.
Jobs/Apple stand for the best that can be achieved. Just OK is not good enough.
I’m with Cupertino, you can keep Redmond.
Both formats suck, but if I had to choose one, I’d pick HD-DVD. Cheaper, looks just as good, and has less problems.
“Just because HD-DVD has a lower capacity doesn’t make it inferior.”
It doesn’t help. And there is more to the issue of HD-DVD’s “inferiority” than just lower capacity.
“”Microsoft supports the inferior one”. Just because HD-DVD has a lower capacity doesn’t make it inferior. I believe it’s a little early to be making statements like that.”
TOTALLY AGREE. Some of the editors on this site have their head up their ass. Everyone I’ve talked to (online and in person) has told me about the shit that is Blu-Ray, and most people took back their blu-ray players in for the better (half as cheap) HD-DVD. Let’s not forget how PS3 is very likely to fail.
Another thing, I read how porn really has a hold of this war. There was an article about how VHS one the format war because porn studios supported it, and once again porn studios are not supporting blu-ray.
AAC are smaller files, does that make them inferior to MP3?
Don’t talk nonsense about something you know nothing about.
Macaday – Your typical response suggests that you support anything apple will toss out of their asses..
I’m a freakin realist dude, not a fucking Machead or MSoftie..I use both platforms and enjoy both. Im just stating the obvious..
The Masses could care less..You know most people care about thinkgs like family and (mw)friends..You sound like you care more about a fsck’n dvd format…Have you left your parents basement lately>?
Just so you know, its July of 2006, isreal is at war..and your being a dvd format hooker..
Do you play Counter-Strike?
……I wish you would so i could see you get pwnd. Oh thats right, the most popular game in the world doesnt run on a mac, unless it runs windows:)
n00b
Just to let you guys know intel stands behind HD-DVD so dont get to sure about anything
My poo poo poo
keeps goo goo goooing
Uh, couldn’t you just make it simple and let the user decide? Make the products compatible with both and simply select which one you prefer when customizing your box. Duh.
@bambi:
AAC wins. Look at the facts.
And BTW, “Don’t talk nonsense about something you know nothing about.”
http://www.apple.com/quicktime/technologies/aac/
I’d rather have the larger capacity of Blu-Ray for backing up hard drives. A terabyte of photos = a whole hell of a lot of DVD-Rs. I’d rather burn 40 Blu-Ray disks than 67 HD-DVDs. Wondering how blank media prices are going to shake out, though.
I have read M$ wrote the drivers for HD-DVD, so they will receive royalties for each drive. Drivers for blu-ray are open source.
M$ is not backing HD-DVD because they believe it to be the best technology—they are backing another revenue stream.
Most of the Hollywood studios are releasing on Blu-Ray and only a couple are behind HD-DVD.
quoter: Care to back up your statement that PS3 is “likely to fail”? It couldn’t do much worse than Xbox 360 (which in any event will have a hastily cobbled together add-on solution for HD-DVD, unlike PS3’s integrated Blu-Ray).
If you are choosing between an HD-DVD player for $500, or a game console with a Blu-ray drive for $500, which would you choose?
The PS3 is going to put millions of Blu-ray drives into homes.
IMO, that will be the beginning of the end for the format war.
Bobby Skinner — in the second post — gets it. Apple needs to adapt to whoever wins the race.
“@bambi:
AAC wins. Look at the facts.
And BTW, “Don’t talk nonsense about something you know nothing about.””
No shit, I was being irnoic. I was using that as an example to show that HD-DVD is better.
sorry, that post above was written by me in response to rasterbator.
PS3 WILL fail! Anyone who gives a shit about videogames (I don’t even care that much about them) knows this. $500 for a bound to be obsolete machine (doesn’t have HDMI on the $500 version) and $600 for a box that plays horrible games is not going to sell very well. Everyone knows that you can buy a Wii and a 360 for the same price, and everyone knows that everyone is going to go for the Wii. Japanese know this, stockbrokers know this, developers know this, fans know this, even the president of Sony knew this and quit!
Sony keeps digging further and further to their grave with statements like “The PS3 will end the need for a PC.”…yeah, i’m sure. The only people that are going to buy that crap are ignorant asses who think $600 for a crap console with a BD player is a ‘steal’. PSPs suck, Nintendos DS already stole the show for that. But perhaps, and hopefully you’re right. Hopefully PS3 will sell out on launch, and I can pick one up and sell them for 3x the already outrageous price on ebay.
and again, to Rasterbator, you’re an idiot for not seeing my obvious sarcasm about the AAC post.
Quatloos! You guys almost made me pee my pants!
400,000! And not a Quatloo more.
/I’m a such a nerd. Did anyone else get that?
Much better article here:
http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2006/7/14/4654
Quote: “All the signs here at Ars point to an even longer wait. The significant cost and disappointing performance of products on the market now hardly make a jump to Blu-ray compelling to even the most technology-starved professional user. The Mac Pro is already going to be a very expensive machine given Intel’s pricing structure and the cost of the new chips. Not many individuals are going to be lining up to pay an extra US$1000 for the privilege of of a drive whose media is in short supply and reliability is in question. Sony’s much-lauded PS3 release is further likely to bottleneck Blu-ray components for a few more months, driving prices even higher. If all these concerns weren’t enough, all the way back in November, Steve Jobs was already taking a rather cautious stance on Blu-ray. Even with Apple’s history of embracing emerging media, they may opt to sit this one out for a round or so.
When Blu-ray does ship, it probably will be in the warm embrace of Pro machines, but that’s unlikely to happen anytime within the next year.”
—> I totally agree with that – particularly the last two statements. There is *no* hurry for Apple to enter the fray yet. Let it play out. I believe it will be Blu-ray, but it’s just not a *necessity* at this stage in the game. Let prices fall and media availabilty become more prevalent – then ship.
the new to come ProMac can easily support, two drivers, both formats.
Forgot to add:
I don’t know about HD-DVD, but Blu-ray media is *ULTRA* sensitive to fingerprints and even the slightest imperfections on the surface of the media.
<u>Go here:</u>
http://gearlog.com/blogs/digitallifetv/archive/2006/06/28/14620.aspx
Click on the Blu-ray segment to the right of the flash video “box” and they discuss it near the end. The segment as a whole is good. Fast forward to 16 min in if you are not interested in the rest. A few fingerprints and it gets spit back out.
Why can’t Apple just put a HD-Ray drive in the macs? A player that does both.
“Why can’t Apple just put a HD-Ray drive in the macs? A player that does both.”
Cost?
Obviously Apple will buy a drive in quantity and get huge discounts. Therefore customers will not have to pay an extra $1000 for a Blue-Ray drive. How much the Built-to-order option will be, we don’t know.
BlueRay will win, the Playstation 3 will be Sony’s Trojan Horse. BlueRay disks will sell because there will be lots of Blueray players out there (PS3) Therefore they’ll win the format war.
Cheers,
Tim.
What’s the big deal?
http://www.digitalworldtokyo.com/2006/06/samsung_mulling_dual_blurayhd_1.php
Speaking of Sony I just read that the UMD disks in the PSP are not going to be selling at retail stores anymore. Hahahahah poor PSP. ONe more reason to get a Nintendo DS over a PSP. Sony can’t seam to get anything right just like the pricing on their new console. How many average consumers are going to dish out 700 dollars for a gaming system. Yes it will be at least 700 by the time you get the right hard drive and controllers. Only the rich little brats will be able to get one, especially when the games are said to be priced over 60 dollars as well.
Think about it if you buy a PS3 a couple contollers and like 10 games you can go out and get a new MAC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That does play games, movies, and everything else you can imagine. Unless your loaded and have the extra money to blow then it doesn’t really matter.
Porn is going Blueray; blueray wins.
it’s amazing how many people on here actually believe Blu-Ray will win the format war because of the PS3. Trust me, hardly anyone wants a PS3. I think 90% of gamers said they’d get the Wii over the PS3 in Japan. Not to mention Sonys trying to make it so you can only play games YOU bought on YOUR specific PS3, meaning you can’t resell, and if your PS3 breaks, you have to rebuy all your games…Ah yes, the $75 games they plan to sell.
Dreamcast came with a GD player, did that take off? Absolutely not.
Bambi wrote:
” $500 for a bound to be obsolete machine (doesn’t have HDMI on the $500 version) and $600 for a box that plays horrible games is not going to sell very well. Everyone knows that you can buy a Wii and a 360 for the same price, and everyone knows that everyone is going to go for the Wii.”
So the full-HD 1080p-capable (Through component connection instead of HDMI) game-playing ability of the $500 PS3 is somehow “obsolete” in your mind, yet the Wii, which doesn’t even support the bare minimum 720p HD standard is not “obsolete”?
Welcome to Crazy Town. Too many “magic mushrooms,” Mario…
Who gives a crap about 1080p games from sony. If the games aren’t fun then what does it matter how good they look. I play games for the fun factor which is why I have a Nintendo DS over a PSP, and which is why I have a camecube!! I want to have fun playing the games I bought. Why would I break the bank on a PS3 just so I can watch it on my regular tube television that won’t really be 1080???????? So in order for most people to play PS3 they have to buy a high end flat screen thats stupid. Like much of the population we all can’t afford a 3000 dollar tv yet. The DS is so popular because of the innovative way it controls games and the way it makes you interact. For once someone is getting it right again and that is Nintendo. Not everyone wants to vegetate on the couch and just look at the pretty screen. The Wii is going to make you interact with the screen. I rather play a classic side scrolling game over some of these dull yet high res games that you will be like oh its so real looking and then after a week or two it just collects dust.
Joel,
when I say obsolete for the PS3, i’m not talking about graphics, and such….PS3 obviously surpasses Wii. My point is, ALL HD-DVD/Blu-Ray players will not output a digital signal unless you have HDMI in a year, maybe 2. I believe it’s the MPAA that is trying to regulate this, so if you buy the cheaper $500 model of the PS3, in a few years you wont even be able to watch blu-ray DVDs the way they are supposed to, you’ll get an analog signal.
Save your money.
The PS3 is NOT a slamdunk especially with its ridiculous price. Even if it WAS, that doesn’t put BluRay in a HUGE amount of homes. Hell, most people don’t even have HD TVs yet because that whole format battle is not clear. Really, I think BOTH will have a problem. If I’m the average Joe, why in the hell should I have to buy movies AGAIN after I just upgraded to DVD in the past decade? VCRs lasted like 20 years… longer really….
What kind of protection is being used on the HD/BR dvds? will we be able to sample it to our iPods/illegal downloads?
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“What kind of protection is being used on the HD/BR dvds?”
A thin layer of latex.
Don’t believe all the hype! HD DVD is just as expensive in retail value as Blu-Ray.
Toshiba HD DVD players are being sold at a LOSS: as low as $499.00 to $900+. It costs about $700 for Toshiba to manufacture each unit.
This marketing gimmick won’t last very long.
Blu-Ray is here to stay whether you keep bitching about it or not.
HD DVD is passive technology that will be dead in less than 5 years.
Almost 90% of all major movie studios support Blu-Ray disc. Most support Blu-Ray ONLY!
Even Dell supports it.
The obvious superiority of Blu-Ray is not even the issue here. Within a year the price will go down, and we’ll have smaller inexpensive units, just like it happened to the 1st microwave oven, VCR, CD, DVD player.
’nuff said. Move on bitches…
blue ray sounds cooler than hd dvd, im going for blu ray.
Not only does Blu-ray feature 67% higher storage capacity per layer, but it also features a scratch-resistant coating that HD-DVD lacks. There are no other differences between the two formats – they even use the same audio and video codecs.
Blu-ray has way more storage, is more durable, and costs about the same. There is no good reason to back HD-DVD.
HD-DVD is a loser technology. Fuck Microsoft.
“Blu-ray has way more storage, is more durable, and costs about the same. There is no good reason to back HD-DVD”
do some research first. Almost ALL of that is wrong, besides the storage.
fasasf,
Maybe you should try backing up your bullcrap next time.
Read about the scratch-resistant coating here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc
I checked Amazon for prices, and actually found that Blu-ray titles cost less than HD-DVD. Check it yourself, but you’ll see that HD-DVD movies are $23.95 and Blu-ray movies are $19.95.
The real reason that Microsoft doesn’t like Blu-ray is also found on that wikipedia entry:
“At the 2005 JavaOne trade show, it was announced that Sun Microsystems’ Java cross-platform software environment would be included in all Blu-ray players as a mandatory part of the standard. Java will be used to implement interactive menus on Blu-ray discs, as opposed to the method used on DVD video discs, which uses pre-rendered MPEG segments and selectable subtitle pictures, which is considerably more primitive.”
Microsoft hates Java, since it undermines their single-platform strategy.
here is another article that makes it clear that blu-ray and HD-DVD use the same audio and video codecs:
http://www.cdfreaks.com/article/186/2
Of course, wikipedia gives more detail, but asserts that the codecs are the same:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD-DVD
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray
Blu-Ray Blu-Ows. Saw a side-by-side comparison and there really wasn’t one. Last reason to buy a PS3, gone. Too bad, I guess.
nonarKitten:
Since blu-ray and HD-DVD store the same digital information on them, you are talking about players, right? You are aware that blu-ray and HD-DVD store high-definition content using the exact same codecs, right?
Another consideration with reviews of hi-def players and movies is that the quality of movie transfer varies wildly. From a review on the Samsung blu-ray player:
“The way that the films transfers are done seemingly varies quite a bit. I know it is a very inexact science and there are variables that come into play that I don’t even have time for here in this review, but like me, you will find that range is quite wide. You have poor with “The Terminator,” good with “The Fifth Element” and “50 First Dates,” and then you have unbelievable, call-your-friends-and-invite-them-over-now good with “xXx” and “The House of Flying Daggers.””
(http://www.avrev.com/equip/samsung_bdp1000_bluray/index4.html)
to put it simple, though, I wouldn’t buy either. Toshibas HD-DVD player that initially shipped sucked ass, and the blu-ray players I’ve seen displayed were nothing special to begin with. The only good movies made, were ones shot before 2000, and those weren’t shot digitally anyway. Format wars piss me off, luckily I have a DVD-A/SACD player (though I prefer, and like the idea of SACD better, it’s clear it wont win), hopefully they’ll come out with a newer technology, that will also support the current bd and hd discs.
PS3 still sucks. Sony is really going downhill.
fasasf:
You sound really pissed off about the PS3 for some reason. Is that why you don’t like blu-ray?
at first when i read about blu-ray on paper it looks much better. It has more storage capacity and more studios behind it. But when it all boils down to it the reason we are buying this new technology is for the clarity of the picture. And as of now HD-DVD has blu-ray beat hands down on picture. I have bothe players and I’ve tested them side by side and the HD-DVD image is superior. I wondered how this could be and after some research I have found out why. First of all hd-dvd films right now are on dual layer 30gb discs. As of right now blu ray movies cannot be authored on dual layer discs so all blu ray films are limited to single layer 25gb discs. So as of now HD-DVD does have more space but thats not all. HD-DVD films are being authored in a new more space effecient codec called vc-1. Blu ray films as of now are still being authored in mpeg2(the same codec as DVD). So basically blu ray is using old technology but just gives more space for less compression, but since it uses all the space with mpeg2 it cant hold as many extra features as HD-DVD. Now evereything may change once blu-ray is able to use dual layer media, supposedly they will also change authoring codecs as well to the more advanced h.264. But as of now blu ray is not ready for prime time and HD-DVD is spanking it as far is image quality and special features go. So for all you fact readers, when it comes to imaging you have to see it to believe it.
Tim sez: Joe, why in the hell should I have to buy movies AGAIN after I just upgraded to DVD in the past decade? VCRs lasted like 20 years… longer really….
Not only that, but in the VCR era very few people built up movie libraries. Owning movies on VHS offered very little over renting them, unless it was a favorite movie you knew would be watched several times. VHS movies could be expensive, took up a lot of space on your shelf and were vulnerable to heat and cold. DVDs on the other hand, were cheaper, smaller, very durable, and often had extensive special features that could take multiple viewings to watch, all incentives to buy.
In short, the consumer has never had to re-purchase their movie collection on a new format like they did with music. I think they’ll balk. I don’t see any stampede to the new video format on the way. I think the “winner” in the short-term will be good old-fashioned DVD.
——RM
Nick knows EXACTLY what he’s talking about. I’ve read everything you’ve described on blogs, boards, and news articles on digg…your post holds the most truth.
Nick – you probably won’t get back to this thread, but I’ll post anyway. Went to the Wiki page you linked to talking about the scratch-resistant coating on Blu-ray discs. I don’t doubt that the coating is there, but here is a videocast where they talk about how sensitive the surface is on Blu-ray media – and they show it. Robert Heron is quite the expert in display tech and media formats/players etc.
<u>Go here:</u>
http://gearlog.com/blogs/digitallifetv/archive/2006/06/28/14620.aspx
Click on the Blu-ray segment to the right of the flash video “box” and they discuss it near the end. The segment as a whole is good. Fast forward to 16 min in if you are not interested in the rest. A few fingerprints and it gets spit back out of the player. At least that’s what they say. Check it out if you get back here.
Are you eating your Shite and smoking it too?
Maybe you got too much SHITE chocked up your left eye to see that BOTH FORMATS HAVE THE SAME 1080P RESOLUTION! Has nothing to do with single or dual layer discs. Nothing’s being compressed!
It’s cheaper and more practical to burn single layered Blu-Ray disc simply because an 2-hour 1080p movie + special features will fit perfectly on ONE 25GB layer.
HD DVD single layer is 15MB which is way TOO SMALL, that’s why they have to use dual, orhterwies they would have to burn 2 separate discs. And that’s also why HD DVDs are more expensive!
You also failed to mention that a dual layered Blu-Ray disc is 50GB! Studios can burn a whole Trilogy or Quadrilogy on ONE DUAL-LAYERED DISC!
HD DVD SUCKS ASS SOOOOOOOO BAD!!
Blu-Ray Video Bit Rate is HIGHER: 40MBPS!
HD DVD is only 28MBPS.
Blu-Ray format supports MULTI-LAYERED Discs as well: at 100-200GB and utilize all the same video codecs as HD DVD!
Are you eating your Shite and smoking it too?
Maybe you got too much SHITE chocked up your left eye to see that BOTH FORMATS HAVE THE SAME 1080P RESOLUTION! Has nothing to do with single or dual layer discs. Nothing’s being compressed!
It’s cheaper and more practical to burn single layered Blu-Ray disc simply because an 2-hour 1080p movie + special features will fit perfectly on ONE 25GB layer.
HD DVD single layer is 15GB which is way TOO SMALL, that’s why they have to use dual, orhterwies they would have to burn 2 separate discs. And that’s also why HD DVDs are more expensive!
You also failed to mention that a dual layered Blu-Ray disc is 50GB! Studios can burn a whole Trilogy or Quadrilogy on ONE DUAL-LAYERED DISC!
HD DVD SUCKS ASS SOOOOOOOO BAD!!
Blu-Ray Video Bit Rate is HIGHER: 40MBPS!
HD DVD is only 28MBPS.
Blu-Ray format supports MULTI-LAYERED Discs as well: at 100-200GB and utilize all the same video codecs as HD DVD!