“Late on Thursday, Samsung filed its answer, affirmative defenses and counterclaims to the amended version of Apple’s complaint in Northern California,” Florian Mueller reports for FOSS Patents.
Mueller reports, “Most of the document consists of ‘boilerplate’ and the usual wholesale denial of all allegations, but there are a few interesting things to say about it. In particular, Samsung scoffs at Apple’s attitude toward its competition by (repeatedly) stating the following: ‘The Samsung Defendants admit that they have not ceased competing with Apple notwithstanding Apple’s efforts to avoid such competition.'”
“That’s the obvious position for Samsung to take,” Mueller writes. “While Apple describes Samsung as ‘the copyist,’ Samsung naturally argues that it’s just competing.”
Much more in the full article, including Mueller’s updated “battlemap,” here.
MacDailyNews Take: Apple’s products came first, then Samsung’s:
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Slavish. Copy.
I have traveled to Seoul extensively, and I can tell you that copying IS a form of competition for these guys.
Essentially, after the Korean War ended, the decision was made to rebuild S. Korea by any means possible. They threw away the book containing their morals and went balls-out for the prize.
When you visit S.Korea you will see only copying. Not an original thought or idea to be seen in the whole of the land. Cars are crazy amalgamations of others’ designs – picture a Ford Escape front end on a Grand Cherokee rear with a Mustang logo on the grill and you get the idea.
They have a “Digital Valley” and a “Silicon Gulch” that are giant tech focused business districts. They want mostly to be just like the U.S., but are still trying to come out from under several thousand years of always being someone’s bitch. Fascinating but sad too.
Don’t forget Baseball.
Anyway, the Koreans on the TV series Lost didn’t embarrass themselves, have to be said. Same thing can’t be said of Samsung; a disgraceful show, utterly so.
Of course as such a Korea expert you bothered to learn Korean? Traveled outside Seoul? Hung out in their downtown stream park Cheonggyecheong? Checked out the fashion stores in Bukchon, Samcheongdong and Dongdaemun? Viewed the art galleries in Insadong, listened to the new gayageum compositions of Hwang Byonggi? Ate new Korean cuisine in
Cheongdamdong? Went to a taekwondo exhibition? If not, better not to make such blanket generalizations about a fascinating country bursting with creative energy.
ashame… even your post was a mimic. its like i could tell you exactly what it was going to say without even reading it.
And this has what to do with art of copying Apple designs?
Weary of “Korea has no original thought or idea” meme put forth by one who has “traveled to Seoul extensively”. The danger to readers is that this lends a convenient caricature to one-sided reporting on this case. Personally I loathe Samsung and IMO clearly they copied the iPhone and iPad interface, but Samsung also has some serious patent infringement claims against Apple that don’t get reported outside Korea and can’t just be ridiculed away.
It’s exactly like Japanese development before and Chinese development now.. and frankly, American development (copying British factories long ago)… the problem with the Koreans is they deny any of this…thinking themselves somehow exceptionally original
I am no great fan of Samsung, but to see them as only tawdry copycats from a developing country is mistaken. Their research center in Suwon has 4000 Ph.Ds (many from East Europe) and Samsung has more telecommunications patents in the US than any company but IBM.
Thank god I own nothing from Samsung, though I can’t help that Apple has used some of their components in their iOS devices.
Lucky you, I have a washing machine from them. I’m now embarrassed to have it in my house.
I have only a Samsung HDTV tuner set top box. While it’s more sensitive than an older Zenith (designed for DirectTV), the Samsung’s software is oft times flakey, even freezing at times. Sensitivity aside, the old Zenith is a more capable box.
Fuck ’em! I won’t be buying a Sansung anything again!
bet you your ram in your mac’s are from samsung.. mine were when i swapped them out.
Yep, god was on your side there.
I have a Samsung phone…it sucks. I bought a Samsung bluetooth earpiece to go with it – it sucked so bad that I took it back.
That said, it isn’t fair to pile on Samsung just because of the copying Apple thing. At least Samsung is smart enough to try to copy the best.
oh boy, you need to see the new samsung phone, is just the same as iPhone4, I saw the ad in the newspaper today, i had to look twice to see if it was iphone or not, hehehehe
just like the other copies, is so shameful
Over the years I have purchased many Samsung products, costing thousands of dollars. Most were satisfactory enough for me to continue as a customer. Their recent activities however, have led me to believe they are nothing more than thieves. I don’t deal with thieves, so from this day forward I vow to never purchase another Samsung product.
I’m with you on that vow, until they change their evil ways.
What is even worse for Samsung, they didn’t just copy anybody but their business partner. That’s a violation of confidence and trust. On top of that, instead of trying to negotiate/apologise like anyone with a sense of pride, they have decided to litigate preemptively.
This akin to old saying: the mother of a shameless thief often has the loudest voice. Apple admirers are often resolute, opinionated, we chose our platform carefully, and we have a long memory. It’s one thing to compete, but brazenly steal and then litigate the same company on the amoral ground, I hope many Apple fans will shun their business and teach them a hard lesson in ethical business practice.
i have two Samsung tvs, but last night I had to get a new washer, and was pleased to have this be a new reason to pick another brand!
For anyone who is not tech-savvy, there is no difference between an iPhone and a Samseng [= a thug] phone. The general public is mostly ignorance of the difference.
Seriously? How about the app platform size? That’s a pretty big freaking difference even for your hypothetically dumbass consumer
You misunderstood me. What I meant to convey is that Samseng’s copy of the iPhone is so blatant that an ordinary consumer would be fooled into thinking that Samseng’s Galaxy is an iPhone.
This seems to be a “normal” Korean attitude and culture. They don’t seem to understand that this is theft and it has worked so far for them without any adverse reaction. Hopefully someone like Apple will bring it home to them in a bad way.
Why its taking so long I don’t know. Is it not obvious. Only thing I will say is that I had to buy a Samsung TV last year even though I tried not to. I first bought a Sony, but had to return it and got a Samsung. Damn!!!
It should be an interesting ruling because it would set the tone for things to come.
If Apple wins, then copying will be scrutinized more in the future. However, the importance of this ruling would define what is copying.
If Samsung wins, companies will be ripping each other off like crazy.
Whatever the outcome, I hope Apple is looking beyond Samsung because they are shameless jerks.
Here’s how you solve this…
You pick a jury of U.S. persons who have not played with *any* of the items in question for more than a couple minutes in their life. Plus you pick people who have, as far as you can tell, no inherent bias toward or against the products of either company (or the companies themselves).
You have both Apple and Samsung put together a video montage (NO SOUND) of images of their own products in question that is less than a minute each. They can show any images they want: front, back, side, turned on, turned off — just NOT specific applications running (this is about the hardware/OS interface, not specific apps).
Then each company needs to put together a set of 25 images of each of their own products and 25 images of each of the other entity’s products. If they are restricting this to these four products then that’s 100 images from each company. Obviously Apple is going to pick images that show similarities as much as possible. Samsung is going to pick images that show differences. Each image is of one product only. NO images showing both Apple and Samsung products. No sound or naratives.
Then…
Show the video montages to the jury. Don’t allow any note taking.
Wait one hour with the jury not able to discuss anything — even among themselves.
Then one company shows all its images to the jury in this fashion:
The company that put the set together is not known to the jury.
Each image is shown for one full second.
Then each juror, in a secret balot, gets three full seconds (NO MORE) to vote whether the item shown was an Apple device or a Samsung device.
Repeat this with the set of images from the second company.
The company that put the images together is not known to the jury.
Each image is shown for one full second.
Then each juror, in a secret balot, gets three full seconds (NO MORE) to vote whether the item shown was an Apple device or a Samsung device.
Keeping the viewing time and voting time short for each image forces people to go on the *impression* of each product. Each juror won’t have time to analyze each image and “figure out” which is which.
If after all the votes are counted a greater number get the answer wrong than right (mistakenly vote that an Apple product is a Samsung product or vice versa), then it is ruled that the designs are the same and Samsung stole Apple’s design. If a greater number get the answer right then the court rules that Samsung’s design is different from Apple’s and people are not confusing the different company’s products. (In the cases where a juror ran out of time in that three second interval before choosing and didn’t get a vote in, those non nswers are ruled as wrong asnwers as the individual found the images confusing enough that she/he couldn’t tell the difference.)
Seems like a simple way to solve this. You claim they look so much the same (or clearly look different) then prove it.
http://fosspatents.blogspot.com/2011/07/apple-files-motion-for-preliminary.html
Bam! Apple has just slapped Samsung by filing motion for preliminary injunction in the U.S. against four Samsung products: Infuse 4G, Galaxy S 4G, Droid Charge, Galaxy Tab 10.1
Etc.
I should have added that the images (the set of 25 for each product) must be completely unretouched images. No “photoshoping” in any way!
Apple the innocent? Shame on Apple for using others technology and stealing it!!! Karma.
“Apple suffers blow in S3 Graphics lawsuit wrangle
updated 07:30 pm EDT, Fri July 1, 2011
Apple found infringing on two S3 patents!”
Read more: http://www.electronista.com/articles/11/07/01/apple.found.infringing.on.two.s3.patents/#ixzz1Qtv343AM
Sorry guys,
I know I’m not a very good troll, but you see, all I have is my mom’s basement and my right hand.
Sorry again, I just can’t help myself.
Arco,
Did u actually read the thing. Its some ancient image compression patent that everyone is using.
I smell Troll droppings.
Ewww.
This isn’t the first time “Marco” has been called out on trollery.
sadly I have a Samsung 55″ LED HDTV and it’s awesome which is why i got it a year ago before I knew about these issues. Now I will steer clear of S.K. hardware. But I almost bought a Hyundai Azera which is a Lexus knockoff or $10k less and a great car. My brother just bought the top of line KIA and sadly it’s awesome too. I could be wrong on this but think Hyundai was the first to offer 10 years/100,000 miles warranty which was original and pushed other car manufacturers to offer it too. That was a good thing unless I’m missing something. I still have my eye on the Hyundai except it get terrible MPG, but the KIA is better. My point? Not sure other than I won’t buy S.K. tech hardware but may one of their cars still. I don’t have any car allegiance like I do Apple alliagence I guess is the point.
Went and checked the other TV – Toshiba!
Toshiba – who back in the 80s engaged in their own douchbaggery that threatened US security. They are my blacklist along with Samsung. LG too – formerly known as Lucky Goldstar. A company I used to work for had partnered with them to do a big project in S Korea. Rucky Goldsta (as the Koreans pronounced it) were stealing our IP left, right and center. Their engineers were a competent as a classroom of kindergartners.
As for Hyundai’s 10 year warranty, it is a holdover from when the first came to the US in the 70s or 80s. Their cars were complete crap, so they offered the long warranty to make up for the poor quality. Of course, Toyota was complete crap when they first came to the US in the early 60s. So Toyota withdrew from the US until they had a product people wanted. The rest, as they say, is history.
Apple’s not going to get anywhere on look and feel crap. It’s a dead end.
@fdssdfa
Agh, We see another troll in the mix, while the general populous sees that Samsung has stolen and used Apples designs, the limited mentality comes out blatantly by the blind that only is fueled by a simple hate for Apple.
Get over it Trolls, Apple will win this hands down, Samsung is trying anything to slow down the process, but they are failing due to the “throw as much on the wall to see what sticks” attitude.
Samsung is shameless, Apples function and look has been copied and Samsung is fully aware they will lose more then a few products due to this theft when all is said and done.
So well articulated I have a hard time finding fault with your reasoning.
Speaking of good articulations, your sarcasms, from those that I have seen so far, are well toned and well delivered.
Now this is how tech writers should weigh in (with scores):
http://www.mobiledia.com/news/96486.html
Bring the Foundry manufacturing business and jobs back to America!! Use some of the $70 Billion in the bank To jumpstart that initiative.
Parasites don’t compete. They suck the blood out of their victims.
Samsung is so screwed…