First, “a positive: Hardware support for [Apple’s OS X] Lion seems pretty extensive. Just about any Intel-based Mac released since the middle to latter part of 2006, meaning an Intel Core 2 Duo processor or better, will work with Lion,” Gene Steinberg writes for TechNightOwl. “A five-year Window is pretty good for Apple. At the same time, I expect that the $29 upgrade price for Snow Leopard, plus loads of new Macs sold since 10.6 arrived in August of 2009, only leaves a small number of eligible Mac users still using Leopard or Tiger.”
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“However, to upgrade to Lion from Leopard, it’s a double installation at best,” Steinberg writes. “First they have to upgrade to Snow Leopard, and upgrade that initial installation to 10.6.7 (Mac App Store debuted in 10.6.6). The reason is that Lion will only be available via that route. There will be no retail upgrade kits, no DVDs. That’s the price you pay for convenience, assuming downloading a 4GB file is convenient for you.”
Steinberg writes, “Once you’ve running 10.6.7 or later (and there’s a rumor of a 10.6.8 under development as we speak), you can then install Lion. Does this make sense for the company whose products ‘just work?'”
Read more in the full article, in which Steinberg asserts that, “at the very least, Apple ought to consider a combo installer DVD in a retail package at a special price, say $39,” here.
MacDailyNews Take: What do you think? Is Apple’s OS X Lion upgrade plan misguided? Are you running Mac OS X 10.6.7 Snow Leopard? Is a 4GB download a huge or non-issue for you?
This is going to really suck for people like me who have to support a fleet of aging Macs (white Core 2 Duo iMacs) that are still running Tiger for cryin’ out loud! I cannot convince the management to get rid of these ancient machines before they start failing and upgrade to AT LEAST new Mac minis (the geriatric employees would rather use a low-res 19″ LCD with a Mac mini so they can read what’s on-screen).
If they still can’t understand why it’s a good idea to upgrade BEFORE there’s downtime due to a failed system, I guess I’ll zero the drives, install Leopard, then Snow Leopard, then Lion. UGH!
Perhaps everybody should just calm down.
To think that “Lion will only be available via that route, [i.e., is downloading via the Mac App Store]. There will be no retail upgrade kits, no DVDs…” is completely ludicrous.
Otherwise, why would Apple describe the upgrade process in print with a “To upgrade on day one:”?
It’s only the first day!
I would suggest that Apple will have more to add to satisfy all the concerns posted here, i.e., providing that your Mac can run Lion. Just like they did prior to the release of Snow Leopard. Remember the upgrade bundles for both Leopard and Snow Leopard?
And remember you could upgrade to Snow Leopard from Tiger thereby bypassing Leopard.
Really, anybody that thinks that Apple isn’t fully aware of what, how and when they customers are capable or are able to do in order to upgrade their OS’s, are just plain ignorant.
Anybody that believes that Apple hasn’t or won’t satisfy the majority of its users, is just plain stupid. Excluding those that seem to feel they have an entitlement to everything being free.
You may be right, or you may be in denial. Time will tell.
He’s in denial as he assumes that Apple is all encompassing, all seeing. It may just be a simple oversight on Steve’s part – not realising that the majority of people and markets that Apple sells to do not have access to high speed Internet, unlike the pipes that go into the Apple campus.
I don’t think it’s an oversight at all. I think it’s just a matter of Apple looking at their bottom line and not looking at the user. The more people they can get to buy upgraded machines, the better…for them. People who have older Macs with Leopard or Tiger are either going to have to risk damaging their old computer by doing multiple upgrades or they’ll just have to buy a new machine. Pretty smart thinking on Apple’s part, actually. But not very attentive to the needs of users without access to broadband. Even if I had broadband, wouldn’t a 4GB download cut quite a bit out of my monthly data cap? If I had one?
Who said anything about free? Actually, if I do a search on this page, the only one who said anything about anything being free is you.
I think you’re right, though. Apple knows full well what it’s customers are going to have to go through in order to upgrade to their newest OS. I wonder, though…do they care?
Most of the comments here fall into two camps:
1) I have no problem, therefore there is no problem.
2) I have a problem with this.
The issue here is that X% of people are going to have a problem with this. They may live in rural areas with poor connectivity. They may have restrictive data caps. They may be in an office where they’re behind a firewall (many Mac users in offices are on their own for things like upgrades). They may be in a studio where none of the production machines can connect. They may be far from any Apple Store. Heck, I know some people with many Macs that are stuck with this because they need to order through an approved vendor account, and in the past would just place one large order.
Whatever the case may be, when a user finds out there is a new Mac OS available and they hit any issue in regards to ordering it, that’s a problem.
And on the other hand, we have Apple, which could very easily make Lion available on thumb drive and DVD. Allow it to be purchased online and in stores. This would be available as an option.
Apple could then see how many people choose this option and determine whether or not to continue it. This is much better than not having this option and then dealing with the complaints.
Isn’t it odd that the computer vendor with the most expensive computers has the cheapest method of distributing their OS? Because, I’m sure if it was cheaper to do so, they’d be distributing DVD’s like they’ve done in the past…right? o_O
I find almost all of my customers want the software I sell sent to them on DVD even though I offer the same software as a download. Many people, including myself, want to have the physical media in their hands.
I have been offering downloads of my software since 1996, and I can’t tell you how many times customers have called because they were having trouble downloading a 20 MB file. That is why we always ship them a DVD as well. Bad Internet connections equate to I/O Errors. If that many people had trouble with a 20 MB file, I can’t even imagine what it will be like for some to download a 4 GB file.
You’ve hit the nail on the head. I always ask for a physical disc where one is provided as an option even if the software is available as a download particularly where it concerns a production machine. Not having a physical disc to fall back on if something goes wrong is just asking for trouble.
From the proofreading department;
“Once you’ve running 10.6.7 or later (and there’s a rumor of a 10.6.8 under development as we speak)….
Hey MDN, shouldn’t there be a (sic) in there somewhere?
“Once you’ve (sic) running”
If there are a sizable number of complaints, I imagine we will see Lion DVDs.
My prayer to the faithful is that someone comes up with a Rosetta hack. I think there are a large number of folks who require PPC software for their livelihood.
MDN, how about a poll on how many folks need Rosetta??
Why not offer a disc image that can be purchased at The Apple Store and load it to a jump drive the customer brings in?
Some people have really shitty DSL or lice well out of town- relying on a 3G link for residential Internet. That file is going to take a long time to download.
I think Lion will be available as a download only at the start. A month or two later, it will be available as a DVD. That way the App Store gets tried out, and then others get it as well.
4GB is a non-issue.
10.6.7 ofcourse. why would one not use the latest version?
Misguided…if Apple does not provide the means to download a .dmg, .cdr or .iso image!! How do you rebuild a computer with a new hard drive? How does an IT department purchase Lion for the department? Apple does not have a solution for “Corporate App Store”, so who buys it? When they leave the company, does Lion go with them? If the employee buys it, what stops them from installing it on their personal home computers? Does that put the corporation at risk for violating the terms of use?
What about netinstall and netboot from Lion Server? How do you make those?
I think Apple needs to think this “App Store Only” idea through a little more. There needs to be a means to burn our own installation DVDs.
Hopefully they have a plan for these non-consumer scenarios.
His point about it being difficult to upgrade from Leopard to Snow Leopard to Lion is silly. Snow Leopard cleaned up and streamlined quite a bit of Leopard code, and Lion obviously builds off of Snow Leopard, so the download and install process must be smaller due to not having to install bits and pieces which are already in Snow Leopard.
The latest test build of OS X Lion was a 3.7GB download. So much for “streamlined”.
There is always a vocal minority that complains when Apple does something like this. If you live in the boonies and you don’t have fast Internet, you chose to live there. You don’t hear people blaming Dodge because they can’t get their Charger up the snowy mountain road to their secret hermit hut, do you? Dodge isn’t obligated to provide you with snow tires and sand bags. It’s called the cost of ownership. My in-laws have horribly slow DSL. They own an old Dell that works for them. They’ve chosen to spend their money elsewhere. There are so many analogies you can use.
Apple represents less than 10% of the total worldwide market in PCs. Why would they want to alienate a large part of their user base on a matter of principle that can be easily solved by having an install disc. It’s not as if the ‘problem’ is insurmountable or costs millions to rectify. Apple should be actively courting users to expand their customer base not treat people as out of the loop simply because they lack a fast reliable Internet access. Isn’t Apple’s vision of the cloud opposite to that of Google’s simply because their vision is to not have always-on Internet available to their customers.
Because Apple just announced iCloud, and is intent on removing CD drives from its machines. That’s the future, not to be burning CDs and toting them around. Just like the uproar heard when Apple killed the floppy drive.
Someone has to be first, and it’s often Apple.
What I haven’t seen an answer for yet is okay so I do the web download of Lion, later on my hard drive dies and I get a new HD. What do I install with I don’t have media, Lion is on the net, my HD is blank???? OSe’s should come on disks so you can rebuild boxes.
When I replaced the HD in my MBP, the HD came with Leopard preinstalled.
There’s a lot of people making silly assumptions about the kind (speed) of internet connection other people have. I, for example, use a 3G stick which only allows 6GB of data a month. Anything over that and I get charged an extraordinary sum. Apart from the risk of blowing out my data limit (because a 4GB download is never ‘just’ 4GB), 3G downloads of this size takes many, many hours.
I think it was pretty short sighted of Apple to ONLY offer Lion as a download.
Not everyone has a true broadband connection.
Not everyone on high speed internet has an unlimited data limit.
Not everyone has access to a public wireless hotspot.
Not every wireless hotspot will allow large downloads.
Not everyone is within spitting distance of an Apple Store.
It will be interesting to see how Apple’s servers cope on release day.
Apple wants to get more people exposed to the App Store, but they also they want people to get faster connections (remember all that iCloud syncing they’re doing). That’s my guess as to why the online only release. They’ll bend if enough of their customers complain and release a disk, but they’d really rather you have the infrastructure in place for what’s next on their agenda.
People are reporting the ability to burn the disk image to a DVD and boot off that. Just use a friend’s computer to download the file and burn it. Then boot your Mac and install.
Why are “hardware” and “window” capitalized when they have no reason to be?
At least we will be able to make a OSX Lion Boot Disc from the installer
wheeew!!
I’m in favor of both the download option and a physical media option. This way customers can purchase the best product for their need.
Lion looks great except for one thing. Lion is only available through the App Store?
This is a major oversight. Why?
Reduced sales – several of my clients who went to the Apple Store to purchase Snow Leopard, returned with iPod nanos, iPads, a Magic Mouse or a Trackpad. Having Lion available only at the App Store will reduce store traffic and therefore unplanned sales.
Long download times, data caps, office network policies will prevent many potential customers from upgrading to OS X Lion. (It will take 7 hours to download in some of the wealthiest areas of Phoenix). Two clients have already told me that they cannot believe that Apple would it this difficult to upgrade to Lion. Only 27% of the US has high speed internet. A significant percentage of that 27% is below 1.5 mbps. (There are plenty of Mac customers in these low speed areas).
If your hard disk dies you have lost your ability to reinstall, now what do you do? Two weeks ago, I had a client with an apparent drive failure, had to boot from DVD to run diagnostics. (A restore partition will not help in this situation)
Based on my experience, two major selling points to Windows customers, US Based Phone Support, and re-installation media. My Windows clients absolutely hate not having re-installation media. This is why many refused Windows computers at the last upgrade cycle and instead began purchasing Macs.
Apple must be aware that download caps exist in markets like Australia. Unless Apple make deals with ISPs to not count downloads from the iTunes and App stores in users’ data plans, the new OS X will not be accessible to everyone.
4GB download? No Problem! I’ve got a 160Mbps cable connection. Even considering “best-effort” speeds 4GB shouldn’t take too long at all. As for those that have to do a double-install just to get to the point of downloading Lion…. Life is rough!
They never said it would be app store only- I think it will be available in stores for 39.99-49.99
Exactly. They are “selling” the idea that it is easily downloadable. It sounds advanced. It says “who else can do it like us”.
We will all get our OS in due time. No worries.
Main issue, as I see it, is that making the OS download only (and skipping physical discs) makes it damn near impossible for a home user to recover from hard drive failure. Sure, if said home user has been using Time Machine regularly, it’ll all be cool…but what about the guy who’s on the road a bunch, and only gets to plug in his backup drive when he’s home? How’s he recover without discs to boot/install/repair from?
Isn’t this: “OS X Lion includes a built-in restore partition, allowing you to repair or reinstall OS X without the need for discs.” one of the things we always bemoaned that Dell did? Refused to provide physical back-up discs for its customers?
Yes, it’s an ‘issue’ for me. My sole access to the net is via a data card with a 5 Gig per month limit. Please, Apple, give me a way to purchase the update on a DVD.
Apple knows exactly how many Macs are capable to run Lion.
Apple knows how many of those Macs have high speed internet, at what speed they are on and where they are.
Apple is quite capable of doing the math and thus knows how many Mac users will require alternative non-wireless installations.
As Jobs has stated previously, if you think like some of you have and think that you are being neglected, you don’t know Apple.
Sounds like the same shit coming from the same assholes everytime Apple dares to change the paradigm. TIme to change your underwear guys.