“The Manhattan Declaration is an over 4,000-word statement of beliefs signed by over 400,000 people described as ‘a call to Christian conscience’ crafted in 2009. The app version, which includes a four-question poll on same sex marriage and abortion, launched in mid-October,” Martinelli reports. “A spokesperson for the Christian organization told the Daily Caller that the group is appealing Apple’s decision. ‘We’re making the argument that if [Jobs] would take a look at the Manhattan Declaration himself, he’d see it’s not written with any rancor. It’s written on a very even keel..] It’s just appealing to things that people want to come together on, that millions of Americans agree on.'”
Full article here.
Billy Atwell blogs for The Manhattan Declartation, “There are moments in non-profit work, if your goal is to spark social change, when you feel comfortable knowing that your methods are effective. One of those moments is when your radicalized opponents lambast you as homophobic, anti-choice, anti-woman, or something similar. I do not find comfort in these words, or find them in any way accurate, but appreciate that the message of truth is at least reaching their ears.”
“The Manhattan Declaration iPhone application was released October 14, 2010 as a resource to our loyal supporters,” Atwell writes. “But to a radicalized blog dedicated to promoting abortion, denigrating the dignity of women and the unborn, and supporting unnatural unions, this application is the scourge of human existence. What does that tell me? It tells me that we’re doing something right.”
Full article here.
The Manhattan declaration can be read in full here.
Nuke a gay whale for Jesus!
“…It’s just appealing to things that people want to come together on, that millions of Americans agree on.'”
Just because millions of Americans agree with hate speech doesn’t make it right. Lots of Germans agree with the Nazi’s.
iCulture War.
As a country, let’s get beyond this.
If MILLIONS of Americans already agree on it then why do they need the Manhattan Declaration?
” We act together in obedience to the one true God, the triune God”
Well, right there they’ve cut their own throats. They can’t even really get started before they insists their religious tradition is the only religious tradition that matters and their god is the only real god. The rest is demagoguery disguised as pious appeals to their twisted form of reason. The sooner the US discards these bigots and crazies, the better.
So no, fsck em’. It’s all childish prattle based on fairy tales and lies. Religion poisons everything, especially when religious twats want to lay claim to freedoms and rights that are purely secular in nature, and where hard won in spite of religious authority.
Get your own pulpit!
Religious nonsense has no place in the app store
while millions of Americans may agree, far to many ignore that a minority of people, with a lifestyle that many do not care for are dictating to the majority what should be said, and receive preferential treatment. These people have a choice.. whether you elect to believe it or not. They do not have to live that lifestyle..
Liberals (or “Progressives” or whatever name the socialists are cloaking themselves under this week) are all for free speech as long as it’s exactly what they want to hear. Otherwise, they’re all for censorship, suppression, and worse.
You probably won’t read anything more factual anywhere for quite some time, especially not in the rest of this thread.
WWJD
@MacInfo….you really need to do educate yourself….
Can you say free publicity ala greenpiece( intentional). Anti- female, anti-gay, anti-choice went away long before Apple removed floppy drives. Good for Apple for standing up to thes freaks
What a wonderful world it would be if religion would just realize it has become an arcane, unnecessary, and regressive existence, defined by profoundly immature philosophical and speculative concepts built eons and eons ago upon the superstitions and fears of neanderthals.
To me, refusing to allow religious nuts to shove their lies on other people is no more wrong than telling leprechauns they can’t sell pots of gold at the end of rainbows. Censorship, as a concept, applies more generally and appropriately to government. Self-censorship, which applies to Apple, is perfectly acceptable. I wish more religious people would practice it, honestly. Perhaps, to avoid controversy, Apple could add this app to the comic or fiction section of iBooks. Or to the next to Pocket God (which I love) in the Games section of the App Store.
It’s an app that isn’t violating Apple’s Terms. Leave it in the app store.
If someone doesn’t like it, they don’t have to install it or they can delete it.
Freedom of Choice people. Quit catering to the whiners.
As a gay Apple customer and fan, thank you Apple.
Wow! After reading all these vitriolic comments, it seems obvious who the real haters are.
Censoring your opponents views, words and ideas doesn’t further your cause. It only makes you look intolerant. Debate your opponents using facts, statistics and reason…unless you can’t; then just call them names.
Them people ain’t Christians. What part of love one another don’t they understand?
I think George Takai said it best:
“You’re a douche bag”
There are intelligent, educated people who are Christians. Christianity does not equal stupidity nor ignorance. Whatever your basic position is on these issues, if you’ve given it sufficient thought and educated yourself your position will be nuanced. It is the stupid and ignorant who paint in black and white with a broad brush on either side of each of these issues.
These are moral questions. There are no easy answers whether you are a Christian or not.
“whether you elect to believe it or not. They do not have to live that lifestyle.”
————————
I suppose it’s easy for a heterosexual to say that a gay person has a choice to deny themselves their very own nature and to live a hetersexual lifestyle. But as a gay man, I can assure you that being gay is not a choice.
And whether you elect to believe it or not, you do not have to live a lifestyle that disregards my lifestyle.
“I like your Christ.
I do not like your Christians.
Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”
— Mohandas Gandhi
The app in question is not embedded into the iOS. Apple taking it down just shows that their political agenda is far greater than their desire to make money. In this case, I wish they were more greedy for money than moral power, but it appears they’re going for both.
I find many apps on the app store offensive, yet they remain available for download. I simply choose not to download and use them. Why can this app not also be ignored if it does not reflect someone’s values or sense of morality, fairness, or justice?
Hallibut Clubber, you are spot-on with your observation.
It amazes me that christians will do everything they can to stigmatize and discriminate against gays in any way they possibly can, but then turn around and claim their actions are not hateful. Hope Apple doesn’t cave.
@Billy Bob Buddha – right on bro!
Quotes to think about.
1. A culture of death inevitably cheapens life in all its stages and conditions by promoting the belief that lives that are imperfect, immature or inconvenient are discardable.
2.To strengthen families, we must stop glamorizing promiscuity and infidelity and restore among our people a sense of the profound beauty, mystery, and holiness of faithful marital love.
3. In recent decades a growing body of case law has paralleled the decline in respect for religious values in the media, the academy and political leadership, resulting in restrictions on the free exercise of religion. We view this as an ominous development, not only because of its threat to the individual liberty guaranteed to every person, regardless of his or her faith, but because the trend also threatens the common welfare and the culture of freedom on which our system of republican government is founded.
I do not agree with the Manhattan Declaration. However, that there is a group that is so passionate (and frankly, diplomatic) about these issues concerning life, justice and the state of the world is a GOOD thing I think. I mean, come on. It doesn’t take a genius to see that the “family” is in a death spiral in this country. And please note, the whole gay marriage issue is 1/3 of what they’re addressing. Really, at the root of it all, they’re concerned with what they see as the destabilization and destruction of family/community.
There is a lot more here than a theology you may or may not agree with. Even if you are not a person of faith, you have to appreciate their desire to better society. You may be pro-choice, or pro-gay marriages or anti-religion, or whatever but we can all agree that increasing poverty, violence and dysfunctional families and decreasing educational opportunities and jobs is a bad situation. If you don’t believe that “religion” is the answer then join a different group that is working to improve communities.
I went ahead and carefully read the entire Declaration before coming back here to voice my comment (I doubt anyone above, strongly voicing their own opinion, did that).
The document is very carefully written. Huge effort was made to make sure the tone of it sounds as conciliatory as possible. However, in my reading of it, I couldn’t help but come away with very powerful discriminatory undertones. It tries hard not to, but repetitively succeeds in passing judgment on those who “live in sin”. I can very easily see how this document, as mellow as it was written to sound, would be deeply offensive to quite a few people. It unambiguously tells groups of people how their lifestyle “choices” are sinful and wrong. It continues on to patronisingly “embrace” them (“God loves everyone”), but never does it leave it to interpretation: sinners are clearly sinners, and sinners make them extremely uncomfortable.
There is only one reason for which an app with this specific content should be removed: it is obvious to me that such content can hurt many people.
In the end, the decision will hinge on the interpretation of the person who is to make it. My own reading of it was fairly unambiguous; others may not see what I saw.
@ montex: But then they will hypocritically accuse you of being hateful when you call them on their hate (see Halibut Clubber).
Conservatives are hilarious. They live for finding something to wet their pants over.
And to comment on Quotes from the Article:
Massive amount of the text of declaration was used to state universally positive ideas (support of family, helping disadvantaged, positive social values, etc). However, I couldn’t help but get the impression that all that positive text was no more than thick padding for the core of it, which was restriction of women’s choices and discrimination against a group of people with specific sexual preferences.
Keep in mind, the document was written by very high-ranking professors and Christian intellectuals.
Well, one the one hand I’m gay, so I should feel elated that my corner is being fought for. On the other hand though, I am a libertarian – so I really believe as I always have, that Apple has no place in deciding matters of content – what is or is not appropriate, what is or is not offensive etc.
I wholeheartedly support them in rejecting apps which are poorly put together, or pose a threat to the system, but I do take exception to them being judge of what is moral, or judge of offensiveness.
If I were to, for instance (as an atheist) come up with an app which systematically showed someone how to shoot down every religious argument there is, which would necessarily include content which the huge bulk of religious people might be confronted by, I think it should be available, and I’d hate to think it would be blocked.
MDN Magic word: feet, as in ‘vote with your feet people!’
“There are moments in non-profit work, if your goal is to spark social change, when you feel comfortable knowing that your methods are effective.”
Paging Doctor Mengele…paging…nevermind.
Even though I can’t get worked up enough about this to care, I’m sure there will be pages of enlightened MDN commenters weighing in. Or something like that.
Can’t help but think about the Manhattan Project. Silly name this for a silly declaration based upon an even sillier collection of fairy tales and antiquated laws. Grow up and live in the present- that’s my declaration.
Is there a “Flying Spagetti Monster” app?
I tend to agree with you. But PLEASE NOTE that this was written by three CONSERVATIVE high ranking professors/intellectuals. There is a huge portion of intellectual Christianity that does not agree with the tenets proposed here. For example, look at what the Episcopal church in the US passed a few years ago
http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_epis.htm
and what the ELCA (Evangelical Lutheran Church in America) just passed last year.
http://www.elca.org/Who-We-Are/Our-Three-Expressions/Churchwide-Organization/Communication-Services/News/Releases.aspx?a=4253
“Quotes”
@Macinfo
“whether you elect to believe it or not. They do not have to live that lifestyle.”
I have one question for you then… when did you choose to be straight? You’re honestly going to say that one day you sat down and though… hmm.. gay or straight?
“Apple has no place in deciding matters of content – what is or is not appropriate, what is or is not offensive etc.”
——————————-
Of course they have a right to decide what is appropriate for their very own store..
Apple are a very liberal company with many gay employees including Tim Cook, the company’s COO and second in command. Apple also donated 100k to the no H8 campaign in support of gay marriage last year.
If they feel that an app is discriminatory or harmful to segment of the population which many of their employees are a part of, they certainly have a right to pull or reject that app..
Apple has become the evil that everyone was afraid of with the App store, that is, deciding on content. Who’s to say that some other group will be offended by an app or a book or a song that I like and Apple will cowardly acquiesce to the politically correct. Man up, Steve!
Isn’t there a ‘Free Speech Zone’ they can go in, where the rest of us don’t have to endure their drivel?
That’s quite the Master Plan they’ve worked out for themselves.
My god is bigger than your god! He will kick your god’s puny little ass.
If god did exist, he would have far better ways of giving us his Rules than letting a backward bunch of goat-herders write them down for him, in some odd corner of the world.
Writing in the sky, maybe? So everyone can read it, simultaneously, even if their Hebrew is a bit shaky. Or maybe voices, or high-tech screens?
For an entity which could create the universe, the papyrus or parchment roll seems a little low-tech, frankly. Which is why I doubt its authenticity.
“a four-question poll on same sex marriage and abortion”
What on earth does abortion have to do with same sex?
For God so loved the world that he sent his only son that who ever believes in him shall not perish but have ever lasting life. John 3:16
That is a message that many of you think is a fairy tale as I did until it changed my life and made me “think different “
I found Predrag’s take pretty much my own. I believe it , the document, is anti gay, choice and freedom of being who you are. As for takeing it out of the App store, well, freedom of speech is a right, as is Apples decision, they are not stopping it’s desemination in other media, just the App store.
And for the record I don’t believe in Santa Clause either.
Does anyone actually give a fsck?
@ Macinfo
Absolute rubbish spoken by a person without the faintest clue on the subject.
I’m gay, I’m not anti-family – I came from and therefore have one after all.
You don’t choose your sexuality, it just is.
My right to fight for equal rights is not a quest for special rights.
I have the right to live without fear.
I have the right to live free of discrimination.
I have the right to love the consenting man I choose and yes, the right to marry the man I love.
These are not special rights but what every free citizen would expect. It’s just that gay citizens often do not have all these rights.
So obviously I support Apple banning fundamentalist religiopolitical hate speech dressed up as ‘enlightenment’.
Typical liberal mindset. There should be freedom of speech and expression, but only as long as that speech and expression is completely in line with the leftist agenda.
Nambla members make the same statements… This is how I was born. The nature nurture argument is unproven and shallow
Maybe these Manhattan Declaration people should rename their app The KKK App?
if everyone agrees on this- ( which I doubt ) then why do they need the app
Ya and hetro marriage is a wonderful example? When half of all marriages fail, most child molesters are white hetero males, the xtian right fsckin wingers force women into carrying babies even if she were raped or molested. Btw seems that most problems are caused by straight people, VD included. But no u pick n choose bcause of ur hatred and wanting to keep certain classes of people down. Xtians are the scourge NOT women n gays, so shove ur gospel
Reading the comments again, which side of the debate on this page is spewing the hate speech? Obviously the Christophobes.
I don’t agree with the folks behind this app at all, but I do believe in the First Amendment, so Bloom, no I don’t believe in quarantining ideas just because we don’t like them. The nature of free speech is that, short of the direct incitement to violence, it can be freely given and freely ignored.
I also believe in a company’s right to decide what it wants to sell. And I think the law gives Apple that right, short of antitrust or other legal constraints. While I do not agree with all of Apple’s political views either, I think they have the right to decide what to sell in their store. If it makes some people mad, either way, that is one of the perils of a nominally free market.
The appropriate place to read the “Manhattan Declaration”
is before the start of every NASCAR race during the
‘invocation’ when some preacher huckster prays to
Jesus that no driver gets hurt while military fighter jets
are flying overhead and soldiers AWOL from fighting
in Iraq or Afghanistan are parading around with flags.
for those worrying about this groups rights- don’t forget Apple edits song titles – won’t sell certain books etc. this is no different. And as this group says they have millions of followers they don’t need an app for them then
Why is it that the ultra anti choice, anti freedom of religion and anti privacy always runs to the freedom of speech clause when an individual or non-governmental entity exercises their rights to not provide these small minded individuals or entities a platform to further spew their intolerance and hate? Freedom of speech does not require me or any other person or non-governmental entity to provide you any privileges in my house, web site or business to spout or post your narrow minded bigotry. Bravo Apple for removing toxic material that is offensive to some members of society.
Dont fsck with my rights!!!!! As a woman its very insulting with these fscking xtians believing the bullSHIT they believe. HATERS? bring it bitches. U started that shit and were just calling u out. If it were the other way around ud b feeling the same. Lyers, hypocrites.
@ cogitoergomac
“…direct incitement to violence…”
You’re on a slippery slope here. Can
you precisely define the difference
between “incitement to violence”
and “direct incitement to violence”?
Atheist. Intelligence prevails. Now that is how I “think different”. The only intelligent answer is to realize there is no God. At least not in the way the bible, koran, or “man” thinks of God.
May The Force be with you.
40% in favour of seinstating the app.
You can tell that Americans make up a significant part of this forum!
If u feel so threatened by gay marriage then why do u need an amendment? Can i vote on ur bad marriages? Feeling the need to keep others down makes u feel so holy. Sorry to tell u but the bible was written by MEN NOT GOD. Religeon is there only to control people and there wallets. Power n money is what xtianity is all about.
Which clause is that?
@MacInfo
Really? So you’re telling me there was a point in your life when you chose to be straight?
As a gay man myself, your logic and ignorance baffles me. I don’t know why anyone would actually choose to be gay; choose to have more than 1,500 less rights and privileges that you enjoy on a daily basis and choose to be discriminated against by your own community, friends and even family. Maybe one day you’ll choose to gay and you can see for yourself. When that day comes, call me, we’ll grab a drink.
Most so-called “Christophobes” are leary of “Christians” with good reason. There are, of course, millions of Christians who are simply living their lives and don’t get in anyone’s face about anything. But the Christian right is composed in large measure of bonafide zealots whose mission is to ram their beliefs down other people’s throats. All I have to say to them is “STFU!”
It is interesting that folks talk about how hateful the Manhattan Declaration is, have you read it? While I have not read every comment I seem to find the four letter words describing the supporters of the Manhattan Declartion. You will find no words like that in the document, nor will you find people of the opposite opinion degraded or devalued. Instead of a real discussion all these folks (the ones making the comments on this blog) seem to be able to do is attack the character of the people who are taking a stand. These folks are baciscally making an “ad hominem” argument. In plain english, if you can’t really discuss the issue, just attack the people making the argument. Apple should let the app back in the app store.
There is nothing to stop this group from making a web site (which I assume they’ve already done), which is easy to get to with mobile Safari. Freedom of Speech is a right to be free of government interference (within limits), not private business.
Stop pushing the gay, anti-marriage, anti-American agenda you commies! Put it back in the App store.
To Tim – 40%? You are surely joking, using a new form of math or skipped over 80% of the posts. I see them running about 4 to 1 (at best) in support of Apple or against religious bigotry. Says a lot about the open mindedness of the readers of MacDailyNews. That said, I am sure ur Christian right wingers and a.m. Talking heads will blame it on Soros, or MSM, or Obama, or whatever the latest evil of the day flavor may be
Soros, or MSM, or Obama = Ultimate EVIL
If Christianity is supposed to make human kind a better specie then why did Christians kill and torture so many people during the inquisition tribunals and the throughout history? Why did they kill so many during the Crusades? So on and so forth…
Pull all hate-apps and never allow any other.
Chill out, would you? The hate your spewing is making it difficult to read your posts.
Fsck your God. Keep it in your church, not on a public forum like an App Store.
Obviously, MDN felt the site needed more clicks.
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Apple can do anything it wants in regard to its App Store. That’s how capitalism works. I’m surprised to see right-wing folks complaining about that.
Personally, I think parts of the “Manhattan Declaration” defy logic. For example, the declaration’s concern about the destabilization and destruction of the family relates much of that to gay marriage. Sorry, but I’m not reading lots of news stories about gay men and women abusing children they’ve adopted. Guess who does that? It’s invariably young wives and husbands, or young women who have a boyfriend.
This part is blatantly false, highly political and inflammatory…The President and many in Congress favor the expansion of embryo-research to include the taxpayer funding of so-called “therapeutic cloning.” This would result in the industrial mass production of human embryos to be killed for the purpose of producing genetically customized stem cell lines and tissues. At the other end of life, an increasingly powerful movement to promote assisted suicide and “voluntary” euthanasia threatens the lives of vulnerable elderly and disabled persons. Eugenic notions such as the doctrine of lebensunwertes Leben (“life unworthy of life”) were first advanced in the 1920s by intellectuals in the elite salons of America and Europe. Long buried in ignominy after the horrors of the mid-20th century, they have returned from the grave. The only difference is that now the doctrines of the eugenicists are dressed up in the language of “liberty,” “autonomy,” and “choice.”
That section reeks of the same screaming ignorance embodied by the shrill cries of “death panels” that we heard last year.
What is the “increasingly powerful movement to promote assisted suicide and “voluntary” euthanasia (that) threatens the lives of vulnerable elderly and disabled persons.” Are the funeral homes behind this?
” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”rolleyes” style=”border:0;” /> What utter crap.
I wonder how the Manhattan Declaration writers deal with the scores of embryos created. . .and later discarded. . .through infertility treatments? I guess those are OK.
Anyone who has watched a family member’s condition deteriorate while waiting for a transplant might have something to say about the future possibility of cloning one with the help of that person’s own stem cells.
Perhaps the Manhattan folks would think it’s better that the family member die.
your=you’re
” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”smile” style=”border:0;” /> I always mess that one up when typing. My bad grammar is making my posts difficult to read.
@ Noahsdaddy,
Nice language.
BIG TY TO APPLE.
You say you believe in God? Aren’t you a bit old to have an invisible friend?
HELP ME JEEBUS !!!
seriously.. leave the app up..
whatever you want to believe in is cool by me, as long as no one is being hurt, and your not pushing your beliefs on me or my family.
And for those of you who dare doubt the power of faith….
Homerism has been good to me.
mmmmm… forbidden donut… aaaaggghhhh
“It’s just appealing to things that people want to come together on, that millions of Americans agree on.”
How did 400,000 suddenly become millions? It seems the spokesperson for The Manhattan Declaration has as poor a grasp of mathematics as he does of logic.
But then it’s standard practice for such groups to claim to speak for everyone whether or not they have everyone’s permission to do so. Well, I suppose if you claim to have a direct line to God, you can justify anything — and they never hesitate to do it!
“There are intelligent, educated people who are Christians”
There are also intelligent people who smoke. So what does that tell you.
Don’t like the message? Ban it.
Just like ol’ Mike, the gay Apple user. really dude. Shut the hell up. Live your life how you want. But you are in a huge MINORITY. The masses don’t have to condone NOR accept your lifestyle.
That section reeks of the same screaming ignorance embodied by the shrill cries of “death panels” that we heard last year.
Hey enlightened one… there are “death panels.” Do a little research….
I know I wrote to Apple. There is a difference between free speech and responsible free speech. What the people in the right and religious don’t get (or maybe they do) is their hate speaches have consequence and there is always someone with less then stellar intellience to go postal in the name of the words they preach. Apple did the right thing. I will spend again in the App. Store. Perpetuate your hate in your temples if you must, but no one should ever make it easier for you.
Manhattan Declaration can go to Android.
Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah
Stupid Human Tricks
I really don’t understand why people don’t get that the bible does not discriminate against people, but rather, does not condone specific acts.
In fact, it puts it homosexual acts on the same level as adultery, pre-marital sex, and other acts like thievery, drunkenness and extortion. (1 Cor. 6:9)
There are those that are married to impotent mates. The bible also doesn’t condone these people acting on their urges despite the fact that it would be difficult.
Although it’s obviously difficult for homosexuals to “not act” on these “natural” impulses, it’s no more impossible than it is for a man who is not married to do the same.
The mistake that people make is by assuming that God somehow views homosexuals as inferior, which is totally false. In no manner does the bible discriminate against people, only against actions.
People may be prone to like little kids, yet the majority would agree that it’s sick. In roman times, however, it was quite common for a man to have a “boy lover”. Does that mean that the Christians of that era should’ve adapted to the morals of the time?
Was it discriminating to not allow these into the early church?
Note, many Christians these days like to point the finger at homosexuals but think nothing of premarital sex, considering it abnormal not to have sex before marriage.
This is blatantly hypocritical. There are a few groups that don’t tolerate willful and repeated acts that God doesn’t approve of, but the majority make exceptions out of fear that they’d lose their constituents.
Pure hypocrisy.
@MooKoop,
Thank you.
BTW, to all of the conservative so-called Christians here; Jesus was the FIRST Liberal / Progressive. Chew on that for a moment.
The saddest part of all of this online hubbub, is that both sides can say whatever they want without having to look the other side in the eye and see the real person that they are attacking.
Believers, non-believers, hetero, homo, etc. we are all people sharing more than 99.9999999999% the same DNA. Why all the hate?
Perhaps marko is right. Stupid Human Tricks on all sides.
Oh yawn. Time they got over it and went back to their pews for a nice little bit of worship.
“I really don’t understand why people don’t get that the bible does not discriminate against people, but rather, does not condone specific acts.”
———————–
True, the bible says “man shall not sleep with man”, but the bible also says that eating shellfish is an abomination..
That’s right, if you believe everything the bible says, then you’re going to hell for eating that shrimp cocktail..
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wacky political screeds really belong in the iBooks section. Not the app section.
Fundamentalists just love to quote where LEVITICUS SAYS:
“Man shall not lie with man.” It is an abomination.” (Leviticus 18:22)
But the fundamentalists never seem to quote Leviticus’ other outrageous passages such as:
Eating shrimp and lobster is an abomination. (Leviticus 11:11)
“Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard.” (Leviticus 19:27)
“…do not plant your field with two kinds of seed. Do not wear material woven of two kinds of material.” (Leviticus 19:19)
The “shellfish” law in Lev 11:11 was part of the Mosaic Law. Jesus himself said died when he did.
There were a lot of laws back then, many of them cleanliness laws to protect a primitive people.
There was also a law that you had to bury your own excrement outside the camp and not touch a dead body as they were considered unclean. This was LONG LONG before medical science confirmed the existence of bacteria that carried disease.
This was at the same time that other nations were using excrement for medicinal reasons.
Many of these rules made sense at the time to both set apart the Israelites and to protect them.
Just because you don’t understand something, doesn’t mean that it’s invalid.
“Just because you don’t understand something, doesn’t mean that it’s invalid.”
——————-
and just because it’s in the bible doesn’t mean it’s true/and or the “word of god.”
The Bible is written by man, interpreted by man, and is just as flawed as man.
As for Lev 11:11, water animals having fins and scales were ceremonially clean for food; this ruled out such creatures as catfish, eels, lampreys, rays, sharks, and the crustacea, many of which live on sewage and decaying matter and often are contaminated by the bacteria that cause typhoid and paratyphoid fevers.
Lev 19:19 applied to anyone who was NOT a priest. This served to emphasize the separation of holy and unholy.
Certain actions, such as tattooing the flesh, making cuttings upon the flesh, imposing baldness on the forehead, cutting the sidelocks, and destroying the extremity of the beard, were prohibited by the Law, possibly, at least in part, because of being linked with prevailing idolatrous practices of neighboring peoples.—Le 19:26-28; De 14:1
We may not FULLY understand why laws were applied, but stating that they are ridiculous without even trying to put them into historical context…
“The Bible is written by man, interpreted by man, and is just as flawed as man.”
———————————-
For a person who obviously hasn’t done a lot of research on scriptures that he misquotes, that’s a bold statement, my friend.
Whether you believe the bible is the word of God is another matter. I may believe it is, but it’s because I’ve done the research. I haven’t had any premonition. Just plain old study. What I found wasn’t a revelation, just a harmony of message that is far too complete to have been conceived by man.
You have a right to your opinion, but an opinion that isn’t well researched doesn’t hold water, I’m afraid. I don’t know your background, but I’d suggest you actually do your own research into whether it is or not before you repeat quotes from websites or people. At least try reading the whole thing.
I certainly don’t try to give opinions on a book if I’ve only read the dustjacket.
” What I found wasn’t a revelation, just a harmony of message that is far too complete to have been conceived by man. “
———————
I too have studied.. And what i found was far too many inconsistencies to be anything I can consider to be the word God.
“Spark Social Change” Is that your way of saying “force everybody to think like me” ?
@MooKoop
“There were a lot of laws back then, many of them cleanliness laws to protect a primitive people.”
Primitive people?! You need to read the real history of folks who lived during that time. Your assumption is greatly ignorant of how advanced those pagan folks were.
@GreeOne
Jesus was the first “Liberal / Progressive”!!!! HAHA… I am glad he was if he ever existed but definitely not even among the first 1 billion Liberal / Progressive people. Read some books… read a bit of world history… it will help you to know that when Adam and Eve came around human kind already had a language to communicate and write, knew about mathematics, physics laws and many other things… so believe it or not Jesus would have been just another guy on this planet.
@ truth:
We can tell by your screen name that you are very open-minded in your approach to people with other ideas.
Me, I fully endorse Apple’s efforts to keep the App Store as clean as possible of all these propagandist apps of any flavor. If the only reason that the app exists is to extol a point of view, then it’s not an app, it’s a book, and it belongs in the book store.
I am a sinner, to people who believe in an invisible bearded man in a dress who lives in the sky.
Whatever.
The real issue is that Steve Jobs and his team at Apple are going to carefully decided what to do next. They have Christian customers, and Non-Christian customers. Both sides have equally green money. This is a business issue not a religious one, because whether you believe in all the unprovable theories these Manhattan-ites proclaim or not, the business that Apple runs is vulnerable to negative PR from both sides.
I think Steve & Co will carefully consider what is right for Apple as a business: strategic neutrality.
Personally I would love it if all religious-based apps were required to be written in non-hate-language. But religion is used to fuel hate. Always has been. So it’s hard to insist that apps be unprovocative.
It will be interesting to see what happens next.
@Noahsdaddy, Debbie,
<sarcasm>How. . . . . eloquent. </sarcasm>
If Apple is now starting to censor people’s freedom of religious statements they are taking the wrong path.
You may not like what others say, you may not believe what they say, but we MUST defend their right to say it.
@ MacInfo…
What kind of preferential treatment do you mean?
Treatment to no be discriminated against for a job. OH THE HORROR!!!
Treatment that they may be allowed to visit their loved ones in a hospital in a time of sickness. OMG HIDE YOUR CHILDREN!!!
Treatment that they may be allowed to live their lives without fear of being tied to a fencepost left to die or dragged behind a car until death. OH HOW DARE THEY!!!
Yeah, you can candy coat your arguments any way you want, but your core hatred doesn’t justify ruining other people’s lives to make you feel more comfortable.
And your last quote…
“They do not have to live that lifestyle..”
Well, guess what, you don’t either, so why are you so worried?
And for the record, I’m straight, and not afraid of people who aren’t like me.
Religion is for retards. They want to be told what to think. Even if it is fastasy bullshit. Thinking is too hard.
Hey enlightened one… there are “death panels.” Do a little research….
Hey No Name,
I did. I read that section of the law when the controversy was going on. The “death panels” were a screaming load of crap then, just as the Manhattan Declaration’s “eugenics” claim is now.
Interesting that you only disputed one little part of what I wrote. It’s hard to argue with logic, isn’t it?
@MooKoop
“Bible” and “research” on the same sentence? Where is your “/sarcasm” ?
I would remind my fellow citizens that the price of living in a diverse, multi-cultural secular society in relative peace is being tolerant. I left the church for many reasons, but one significant one was the intolerance.
What is it with these religious wing nuts and their weird interpretations of ancient texts?
Abortion is not discussed in the Old Testament, New Testament, Koran or any other ancient text. Neither is gay marriage.
Anyone who says different has not read the original texts in the language that they were originally written.
These ancient texts were written for nomadic, illiterate shepards. They have very little relevance for modern, well educated humans.
One more example of freedom of speech as long as it’s the popular belief. Welcome back to junior high.
“Liberals (or “Progressives” or whatever name the socialists are cloaking themselves under this week) are all for free speech as long as it’s exactly what they want to hear. Otherwise, they’re all for censorship, suppression, and worse.”
1-The term Progressive is not exactly new- Theodore Roosevelt, a Republican, was a Progressive and he was anything but a socialist.
2-Free Speech has limits & the distribution of controversial speech has it’s place and it is not via the iApp Store.
3-Apple has established guidelines that they have posted which is why Zinio on iOS cannot access adult content other Zinio clients are able to.
4-Nobody is restricting these people’s right to advocate for their position. They can freely post it on billboards, on TV, Radio or websites. They can also publish it in books and magazines.
5-I am tired of theists of whatever persuasion trying to change an open, secular society into some form of theocracy- which is exactly the ultimate goal of this and other groups.
To those who are pissed at Apple for removing a hate speech app from the App Store don’t have to buy a damn thing from Apple and are free to sell your Apple Stock.
As an almost 10 year owner of Apple Stock and a user of Apple Products since before the Mac, I applaud their decision.
If any of you wish to sell your Apple stock, I will be buying more in the morning and encourage you to tender your shares for sale.
When will you get it tolerance is only for homosexuals and minorities of race and nonchristian religions. Left wing liberals will never show tolerance to Christians who believe differently. Case and point these comments.
The simple fact of the matter that the theists are incapable of grasping is that when they declare that their documents or proclamations are based on the existence of or deference to “the one true god(s)”, they have to prove that their god exists. You will not be granted special privilege or exception from the law because of your beliefs, and then run and hide behind “faith” when you are challenged. Show that your god exists and that anything you attribute to said god is valid and not merely the ancient conceits and biases of nomadic goat herders who thought demons caused disease and gods used weather to punish people.
Put up or shut up.
End of Line.
Seriously, I thought America was a place known for religious freedom and freedom of speech. Most of the posters here seem to be against both.
If that’s the case, every “religious” app (Christian, Muslim, Budhist, New Age, Zen, heck even Yoga, etc.) should be pulled. As well, any app promoting and trying to sway opinion towards minority interests (political, gay, racial heritage etc.) should also be pulled.
To not do so, according to your own posts, would be hypocritical. Likely, you would also like to see McCarthyism return. Bravo. Fools.
@Scion — Well said.
@noahsdaddy who wrote “Just because millions of Americans agree with hate speech doesn’t make it right. Lots of Germans agree with the Nazi’s.”
This is a particularly unintellectual statement.
1. The NAZIs did a lot more than speak hatefully. They took enormous actions to subjugate and exterminate their foes (real or imagined). Bringing NAZIs up in this context only minimizes the horror that they wrought upon this earth.
2. Hate Speech: For some any contrary opinion gets labeled as “hate speech”. You may not like what these people say, but it doesn’t rise to the level of hate. I don’t hate Gays and I want them to have the ability to have unions that provide and protect their rights and priviledges, but I still think that the term “Marriage” connotes a defined union of one man and one woman, and thus should not be used for other types of unions. Yes, it’s just a matter of semantics, but semantics matter.
Reading these comments both fascinate and sadden me. Fascinate because of the interesting and intelligent logic put out by people making me think about both sides of the coin. Sadden me because of the viciousness and infantile close-mindedness of some other.
“religion is for retards”? My deceased mother was religious. She was a good and kind woman who kept her family together at personal cost in bad times. Who helped others and put others feelings before hers. I don’t view her as a retard but someone who took strength in thinking that God blessed her with children.
No…she was not a retard and would not think of calling people that who disagreed with her. An example perhaps to some of us?
Primitive people?! You need to read the real history of folks who lived during that time. Your assumption is greatly ignorant of how advanced those pagan folks were.
—–
Sorry if I offended you. Of course, they were quite advanced. There were amazing things that were built. However, I was comparing them with the people of the modern age, and the context was talking about things that people back then we presume didn’t know.
The existence of bacteria, for example. Sorry if the context of my comment was not clear.
Christianity: The belief in a cosmic Jewish zombie who was his own father and who can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and drink his blood while telepathically telling him that you accept him as your master so he can remove from your soul an evil force that is present in all humanity because a woman made out of one rib bone and a mound of dirt was tricked into eating from a magical tree by a talking snake.”
god is imaginary. Proof here:
http://godisimaginary.com
Liberalism is the birthplace of tyranny.
What is really frightening is that these people are allowed to vote!
Well, never thought I’d see the topic of religion rearing its ugly head on a Mac-related site but I’ll join in on the fun with some insightful quotes from big names of history:
“A man’s ethical behavior should be based on effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. If people are good only because they fear punishment and hope for a reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed.”
“Religion is an attempt to find an out where there is no door.”
Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
“God fights on the side with the best artillery.”
“Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich.”
Napoleon Bonaparte (1769-1821)
“When you tell me that your Deity made you in his own image, I reply that he must have been very ugly.”
Victor Hugo (1802-1885) – French novelist (‘Les Miserables’)
“If I were granted omnipotence, and millions of years to experiment in, I should not think Man much to boast of as the final result of all my efforts.”
Bertrand Russell (1872-1970), British mathematician & philosopher
“Religions are like fireflies. They require darkness in order to shine.”
“Faith and knowledge are related as the scales of a balance; when the one goes up, the other goes down.”
“The Catholic religion is an order to obtain heaven by begging, because it would be too troublesome to earn it. The priests are the brokers for it.”
Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860) – German philosopher
“The fact that a believer is happier than the skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one.”
George Bernard Shaw (1856-1950) – English playwright
“If lightning is the anger of the gods, the gods are concerned mostly with trees.”
Lao Tse, 6th century B.C.E., Chinese philosopher, founder of Taoism
“Faith is believing what you know ain’t so.”
“Religion consists of a set of things which the average man thinks he believes and wishes he was certain of.”
“It ain’t the parts of the Bible that I can’t understand that bother me, it is the parts I do understand.”
“I do not fear death, in view of the fact that I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.”
Mark Twain (1835-1910)
“Out of terror, the type has been willed, cultivated and attained: the domestic animal, the herd animal… the Christian.”
“Christianity was from the beginning, essentially and fundamentally, life’s nausea and disgust with life, merely concealed behind, masked by, dressed up as, faith in ‘another’ or ‘better’ life… The Christian resolution to find the world ugly and bad has made the world ugly and bad.”
Friedrich Nietzsche (1844-1900) – German philosopher
“Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived.”
Isaac Asimov (1920-1992)
“The religion of one age is the literary entertainment of the next.”
“I hate quotations. Tell me what you know.”
Ralph Waldo Emerson (1803-1882) – American poet, novelist and philosopher
“The clergy know that I know that they know that they do not know.”
“Hands that help are far better than lips that pray.”
Robert G. Ingersoll (1833-1899) – American politician
“The Christian god is a three headed monster; cruel, vengeful and capricious… One only needs to look at the caliber of the people who say they serve him. They are always of two classes: fools and hypocrites.”
“Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man… perverted into an engine for enslaving mankind… a mere contrivance for the clergy to filch wealth and power to themselves.”
Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826) – third U.S. president
“Lighthouses are more useful than churches.”
“The way to see faith is to shut the eye of reason.”
Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
“Of all the systems of religion that ever were invented, there is no more derogatory to the Almighty, more unedifying to man, more repugnant to reason, and more contradictory in itself than this called Christianity. Too absurd for belief… it produces only atheists and fanatics.”
“The Bible is a book that has been read more and examined less than any book that has ever existed.”
“What is it the New Testament teaches us? To believe that the Almighty committed debauchery with a woman engaged to be married…”
Thomas Paine (1737-1809) – American revolutionary leader
“In great contests (battles and wars), each party claims to act in accordance with the will of God. Both may be, and one must be, wrong.”
“I am approached… by religious men who are certain they represent the Divine Will… If God would reveal his will to others, on a point so connected to my duty, it might be supposed he would reveal it directly to me.”
Abraham Lincoln (1809-1865)
“The sooner the US discards these bigots and crazies, the better.”
Uhhh, that means that you are doing the same thing your accusing them of doing. The difference is, you are suggesting that they be banished. You scare me much more.
“Religious nonsense has no place in the app store”
So if you disagree with it, it should be banished? How about, don’t buy it, and leave people alone.
yo truth; i hear ya, but i don’t agree with ya.
“it is obvious to me that such content can hurt many people.”
That is ridiculous, I have never seen a “disliked app store app” wing in a hospital. Nobody is hurt by this app unless it teaches people to physically harm another, and it doesn’t.
Halibut: said that Liberals are all for free speech as long as it’s exactly what they want to hear. Otherwise, they’re not.
exactly
I want to repeat some things that have already been said very well, but are still disregarded by some who post. That may be futile but I’ll give it a spin.
1. Apple is a company in business, they are not a form of government and therefore any ideas of “Free Speech” applying here are wrong. It’s reasonable to expect that any company should have the right to choose the product and promotion mix in their own stores. That’s it. Free markets. Free merchants. Free consumers.
Any free consumer is able to respond as they wish.
Sounds kind of conservative doesn’t it?
Now I’ll say something that is currently ascribed to liberalism, but I feel is actually very conservative in the classical sense…
2. The basic problem with using religion in any discussion about public policy or government is that religions have that nuclear option of all argument stoppers – their particular <bold>God says so.</bold>
The same goes for claiming to “love the person and hate the sin,” even though you can be as gentle as possible in your words, the same kind of ultimate nuclear option is played by condemning actions not just because you don’t like them, but because (your) <bold>God Doesn’t Like Them. </bold> And of course these awful activities HAVE to be free will, so that they can be counted as sins. For which sinner/people will suffer for eternity and therefor deserve whatever restrictions & condemnations that can be put on them before they get to hell.
And that implies lots of things within your theology, that you want acted out in our shared reality.
Well how could any sane person argue against the will of the Creator of Everything??? Probably because they can honestly not believe the same or at all.
Feel free to worship as you please, but your Zeus is not my God.
Apple legally can do as they want, the consumer can respond with both their stock & product decisions.
Business law applies, not God or the Constitution.
“Even if fifty million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing.” – Anatole France
I’m an athiest and I’ve never read the new testament, but I’m pretty sure Jesus Christ wanted people to quit being dicks.
So the dicks that wrote the Manhatten Declaration = fake Christians.
Ak2000 et all.
Your hatred And ignorance is disgusting. Love and peace. Most people posting are obviously filled with resentment and hate.
Religions are the worlds ever nightmare. Get rid of them all and there will be wisdom on earth.
I know there are a lot of sane people in the US but when it comes to crazies and just plain nutters you guys just seem to take the cake. Why do you put up with these extremists and why the hell do you elect them in such numbers to your parliaments? It’s just plain weird.
Judge lest not ye be judged.
Christians would do well to remember that.
http://www.transcentr.com.ua – аренда автомобиля в Киеве
Why jailbreak? Control your own content!
@Tom
Non-Christians never understand that the whole “judgement thing”. Christians are to apply God’s Word (or judgements), not their own. If they were allowed to apply their own judgements, they could choose to simply ignore Leviticus 18:22 (along with everything else).
Maybe one day, Christianity will enjoy the same protected/favored status that Islam enjoys and no one will question their “radical” beliefs.
I must say I do enjoy reading faux-“open-minded” people argue FOR censorship. They must be tormented by their intolerance and close-mindedness.
Mike, you are noy ‘gay’, you are a homosexual. Or, homo for short.
Gay means happy.
What you don’t understand is that non-Christians don’t accept the word of your Zeus as anything more than a book written by men thousands of years ago.
So when you apply “God’s Judgment” We don’t buy it. It’s just a convenient way to condemn people without having to personally own up to the judgment.
I’m perfectly happy, not filled with hate and my morals & ethics are intact. I’m also open minded enough to notice when people use disapproval from their God to imagine all sorts of evil on the part of those who disagree with them.
I’ll be having a wonderful day, you do so to.
“… and that government of the people, by the people, for the people…”
Except female, gay, black….
Just as the homosexual community has the right to not be discriminated against, so does the Christian community–regardless of their viewpoint.
I find it amazing that the liberal community–who champions those of minority (be it homosexuality, drug use, abortion laws, and the like) and use Freedom of Speech to hold rallies, protests, and inundate the media with their viewpoints–are so opposed to other doing the same, just because the opposing viewpoints are not their own. If one group has the right to speak, then so does the other group.
As much as I love Apple products, my suggestion would be that Apple tread lightly in this arena. Just as the homosexual community would lash out on anyone that might ban/bar their app, so will this group. It won’t be pretty.
Wow. The homo’s and their ilk demand tolerance yet when someone says something they think is “against” them they become the most INTOLERANT ranting haters.
We all have the same rights already. (California)
I can marry a person of the opposite sex, so can you.
I can not marry a person of the same sex, neither can you.
Marriage is between one man and one woman.
Marriage will NEVER be between two men or two women.
It just won’t. It can’t.
And for another thing….ALL people are born heterosexual. You must choose to be homosexual. So don’t bother with the “when did you choose to be straight” bullcrap. It doesn’t work that way Mr. Strawman.
And why do you chickenshit defenders of “abortion” call it “A Women’s Right to Choose” instead of just being honest and saying you support killing babies?
And Apple should put the app back because they should let us have this “choice”, you people are for choice right??????
And I challenge any of you commie homo liberal cry baby whiners to produce one sentence from the Manhattan Declaration that is hateful. Just ONE!?!?
Let me get this straight…
The right wing christians here are complaining that people want to take away their right to take away the rights of others?
They feel they are being discriminated against because people are telling them they can’t discriminate against others?
Lastly:
@Josiah
“If they were allowed to apply their own judgements, they could choose to simply ignore Leviticus 18:22 (along with everything else).”
So what of the parts of Leviticus they do ignore? Shellfish, for example?
“Maybe one day, Christianity will enjoy the same protected/favored status that Islam enjoys and no one will question their “radical” beliefs.”
There was a time when Christianity did enjoy that right. We tend to refer to it as the dark ages.
Again I find it fascinating that some of the right leaning people posting on here do not think that a conservative can be gay…its always you homo liberals…
Denial perhaps?
@FSM
There is, actually! I just downloaded it. 😀
This whole issue is a complicated one. When Apple decided that it would regulate the App store it through itself into the inevitable conundrum. Where does one draw the line?
On this one, some of the supporters of the app are calling “free speech” but I doubt they would say the same for a child pornography app. (This IS totally hypocritical since it is mostly fundamentalist christians who call for the banning of various literary texts from libraries around the country – but posters here seem to ignore this.) So the issue is not whether to draw the line, but where to do so.
I think that the fundamentalist “christians” are silly, hypocritical, and their right-wing political ideology is dangerous, also hypocritical, and in many cases un-american. (Note- not all evangelicals are what I am calling fundamentalists, or right-wing.)
However, I DO believe in free speech. And Apple has provided a platform via which people communicate. Much as I may despise the content of Manhattan Declaration, I believe that it is inherent in our deepest held political philosophy that we allow groups to speak even if we disagree. Apple now has control of a marketplace. I think it either must live up to ideals of our political system and allow whatever is legal, or stop all political and religious apps all together.
If it does not do this – then it will remain in the position of arbiter of what is acceptable or not, and this is a position for which it is ill suited and at which it will always lose.
@ Disgusted
Can’t handle the truth? You any smarter than the people with these quotes? I’m sure you are not.
Love and peace, you say? More people have been killed in the name of Jesus than any other name in history. We’re talking millions and millions of people killed by the Crusades, the Inquisition, all the wars between the Catholics and Protestants after the Reformation, and countless other killings and atrocities committed by Christians that exist to this very day.
BTW, my wife is a devout Christian and I have no problem with that because she keeps her beliefs to herself. I have no problems with Christians if they’d just stop trying to force their beliefs down other people’s throats. But that just isn’t the nature of Christianity, is it? It’s always this arrogant and delusional “You’re with us or against us” mentality.
@ YES ON 8
You are aware that Apple’s *OFFICIAL* status on Prop 8 was “NO,” right? Are you now going to sell all your Apple stuff and buy Dell, HP, or Samsung, etc.?
Let’s remember that women finally got the right to vote in this country (yes, USA, the freest and most equal rights country in the world) only in the 1920’s.
Let’s remember we had slavery here until only around 145 years ago. BTW, the Bible and this Christian god in that ancient text sure doesn’t seem to have any problems with slavery.
Let’s remember we had segregation here until only around 40 years ago.
At least we’re making progress, however slow it is. Deal with it.
@ Harvey
“There was a time when Christianity did enjoy that right. We tend to refer to it as the dark ages.”
Yes, if you look at Western history, the Pope and the Catholic Church ruling most of Europe for over a millennia as a theocracy was indeed the dark ages. It’s when progress just stopped all of a sudden. It set humanity back a thousand years. It took the Renaissance, the Reformation (which then set off countless wars between the Catholics and Protestants that killed millions), and the Enlightenment (AKA the Age of Reason) to start moving forward again. And we still have these extremist right-wingnuts who want to return to the dark ages…
@ Buster
Yes, how about the daughter of that bastion of conservatism – Dick Cheney? What about all these priests and pastors who molest little boys? The Catholic church has already paid out over $1 billion to settle with all the victims. How about Ted Haggard? It goes on and on and on…
Free speech is not extended to hate speech. Religion has its place and needs to stay there. Using religion to promote this level of ugliness is unacceptable.
For those of us who have spent a lifetime coming to the same conclusion as His Shadow, thanks Apple.
Don’t believe the pro-family rhetoric. It’s simply a bunch of people disgusted by sodomy. The sooner these people admit that, the sooner others will actually believe their crap.
Oh…
@MooKoop- “Primitive people?! You need to…”<snip>
People are primitive. Non-thinking, overly-prideful, mob mentality animals who need others to think for them. Idiots who will commit stupid acts and unspeakable atrocities based on what another thinks of them. Morons who push themselves into neat little categories, labels, and stereotypes based on the type of four-wheeled tin box, sewn and printed rags, and brand of ketchup another uses, and what glorious being-in-the-sky that they worship. Humans are disgusting, pathetic, parasitic scum.
It’s time for another mass extinction…
ITunes is not a democracy so cut the freedom of speech crap. It is a market place where the owner of that market place is free to pick an choose what they will and will not sell. I don’t care whether you’re liberal conservative Christian Muslim Buddhist gay straight or any number of combinations of the above. Respect the decision of Apple as to how to control it’s own market place. Content aside the purveyors of the Manhattan Declaration have not been censored, they have many other avenues with which to deseminate their information.
@YES ON 8
sorry, no.
1 person in 11 in the world is born with same sex tendencies. In fact, so far, over 1500 species (THATS species… not individual animals) have been found with same sex tendencies. Seems, your god has let that slip out.
Another little tidbit (hard to ignore facts, but you will anyway): only higher brain functioning intellectual animals (such as dolphins, primates, whales e.g.) engage in sex for fun, not procreation. All of these species have same sex tendencies…
To those who believe Apple is stifling free speech by not allowing this app in their store (or Creationism to be taught in public schools), how many Churches are teaching Darwinism or alternatives to Adam and Eve? If you insist on having your beliefs pushed on children and adults in the public sector, then you should be perfectly willing to have people educated about Evolution at Mass, at Sunday School, at Church groups… Oh, the Church is a private organization in which other ideas are not to be discussed? If they’re that private, keep them to yourselves and don’t push them on others.
Thank you, Apple, for your stand against ignorance.
The major problem that I have with Apple’s action is that the market for iApps is (unless you want to jailbreak your device, and risk bricking it) 100% controlled by Apple, and they have asserted the right to do this.
Rights imply responsibilities. If Apple wants to assert the right of control, then their responsibilities become broader than the normal run-of-the-mill business responsibilities, which implies that they lose certain controls over this exclusive marketplace.
In this case (as in others), I believe that Apple has the responsibility to apply free speech standards. I would say the same for hypothetical “refute religion” app that someone earlier proposed.
Arguing for tradition is not “hate speech.” Arguing that a tradition is outmoded and counterproductive is not “hate speech.”
@MacBill
Are you a TOTAL moron?
Let’s see… when libtards can’t argue facts they call others (in no particular order); Hitler, Racists, Nazis, and the KKK… (blah, blah, blah) people now just finding this name calling laughable now b/c it’s been so overplayed by the emotional & illogical left.
It is interesting to note that a REPUBLICAN freed the slaves & MORE Republicans voted for the Civil Rights Act than the Dixiecrats, er I mean the Democrats…
It is also interesting to note, that in direct response to your name-calling, that it is the Democrats, who until only very recently, had an ADMITTED KKK member as their most senior statesman!!!
But like most libtards, don’t let FACTS get in the way of your hypocrisy!
@Mark
Church is private. Public school is, by definition, public. Who are YOU to decide what should be taught in any other school district but your own? The educational program is and should be controlled by the local school board and should include different and sometimes opposing views… (why does the left go into a spasm anytime different theories and/or ideas are presented? Isn’t that what education is about?)
Hate to tell you this, but evolution is sill classified as a THEORY… When you have the scientific PROOF, then come back & open your pie hole….
I’ll even let you sound as condescending, self-important, and pompous as you obviously are thinking that you are oh-so-superior to others with views & beliefs different from your own…
but isn’t that what you people complain about with the right? I can smell the hypocrisy from here!
@Wireless Test Man
You’re using the the word theory, but you obviously don’t know what it means in this context. Gravity is also a theory. Colour theory is also a theory, but we don’t lack for proof that mixing blue and yellow pigments makes green. We do have scientific proof of evolution. A lot of it.
On the other hand I suppose you do have a point. Why should anyone care about the quality of the education of anyone’s children but their own, right? Sounds like dirty, progressive, socialist, liberal thinking to me. Some would call it altruistic, I suppose, but I guess that’s a matter of opinion.
Also: I’m sorry, whom is it who’s comparing whom to Hitler?
I am Australian, Atheist, a bedraggled refugee from the “Holy” Roman Catholic Church. I have read about this Manhatten Declaration. I am on many Atrheist Groups based in America. The excessive emphasis on Religion, especially Christianity in the USA is doing the country a lot of harm. In the Bible Belt most Christians believe in the Six Day Creation and not Evolution. Texas has required “Creation Science” to be taught in it’s State Schools at the expense of a good Science education..
The harm done by FundaMENTAList Bible Thumping Christians is causing a lot of harm to the USA, or should it be known as the United Christian States of America. The USA is being turned into a Third World Nation.
“We do have scientific proof of evolution. A lot of it.”
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We do have a lot of controversial evidence of evolution, and even scientists can’t agree between themselves what the right theory is.
However, much of it is proof of adaptation, (sometimes called micro-evolution) not the [macro]evolution that people talk about. Note, when Darwin was alive, we didn’t know that the human cell was complex. It was thought to be the smallest unit. However, now we have discovered that the cell is a staggeringly complex factory with no answers as to how it evolved.
If you don’t want to believe we were created, fine… but there’s a bigger chance of aliens coming from another planet and terraforming earth than life evolving on this planet. Many “honest” biochemists who have done the math and know their stuff will secretly admit that they have no satisfying answer.
Every house has a builder… it would be hard to convince anyone otherwise.
Humans are far more complex than houses.
Ein Reich, Ein Volk, EIN LIFESTYLE.
From the good folks of the Arbeit Macht Frei states(right to work).
Being gay is NOT a choice but wearing black in your heart is!
We don’t hate y’all we just HATE every evil thing you do for your masters and their true god the Golden Calf.
Your all sick, get better now.
Why do we keep trying to put gay in everything. If you like being with the same sex, good for you. Don’t try to force that on me.