“Apple has rolled out a slick new 17-inch version of its MacBook Pro, the Intel-powered replacement for the Powerbook. It’s cool, lovely and fast (up to four times faster than the old one) and can run Windows thanks to Boot Camp software. The downside? Price. Expect to fork over $2,800 for one with a gig of RAM. I love Apple hardware but that price makes me think more than twice when you can get a couple of decent Dells and change back for the same coin,” James Derk () writes for for Scripps Howard News Service. “At $1,999 the thing is worth a look; at $1,599 it’s a category killer. It just needs to get a thousand bucks cheaper somehow. Does Moore’s Law apply to Apples?”
[James Derk is co-owner of CyberDads, a computer repair firm, and computer columnist for Scripps Howard News Service.]
Full article here.
MacDailyNews Take: Well, now. We hereby publicly challenge Mr. Derk to find a Dell laptop that meets the following specifications that costs less than half the price of Apple’s new 17-inch MacBook Pro. And look up “Moore’s Law” while you’re at it.
Apple 17-inch MacBook Pro specs for US$2,799 configuration:
• 2.16GHz Intel Core Duo
• 1GB (single SODIMM) of PC2-5300 (667MHz) DDR2 memory
• 667MHz frontside bus
• OS: Mac OS X
• 120GB 5400-rpm Serial ATA hard drive or 100GB 7200-rpm drive
• One FireWire 400
• One FireWire 800
• Three USB 2.0 ports
• 17-inch display
• 6.8 pounds
• 1.0 inch thin
• 8x SuperDrive (DVD+R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
• ExpressCard/34 slot
• Built-in 54-Mbps AirPort Extreme wireless networking (802.11g standard)
• Built-in Bluetooth 2.0+EDR (Enhanced Data Rate)
• Built-in 10/100/1000BASE-T Gigabit Ethernet
• ATI Mobility Radeon X1600 graphics processor, dual link DVI support, 256MB of GDDR3
• DVI output port
• Built-in iSight camera
• MagSafe Power Adapter port
• Apple Remote
Now, of course, the Dell is hobbled from the outset as it is OS-limited and cannot run the world’s most advanced operating system, Mac OS X. Apple’s MacBook Pro can run Mac OS X, Windows, Linux, and basically any other OS you care to run. So for our challenge, we’ll be extremely generous and pretend that major differentiator doesn’t exist. We’ll go even further and also pretend that the MacBook Pro’s included iLife ’06 and Front Row software are meaningless, too. So, can Mr. Derk or anybody find a Dell laptop that meets the following specifications that costs less than half the price of Apple’s new 17-inch MacBook Pro?
Oh, wait! Before you try it, Mr. Derk, we see your ruse. You wrote “you can get a couple of decent Dells and change back for the same coin,” so you allow yourself copious wiggle room to choose any two pieces of crap from Dell’s bargain bin, label them “decent,” and prance around CyberDads jingling your extra change? Hey, co-owners of computer repair firms wouldn’t like it too much if everyone’s computer just worked, now would they? What is the going rate for a Windows wipe and reinstall due to unrecoverable spyware/malware infestations these days, anyway? But, we digress.
So, back to the fun, two can play at that game. Our generosity, however, has now been rescinded. The ability to run Mac OS X and iLife, etc. plus Windows matters. It matters a lot. So, let’s first visit Dell’s website and find something that’s as close to Apple’s flagship MacBook Pro 17-inch as possible:
Dell XPS M1710 (catchy) specs:
• 2.16GHz Intel Core Duo
• 1GB (single SODIMM) of PC2-5300 (667MHz) DDR2 memory
• 667MHz frontside bus
• OS: Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005
• 100GB 7200rpm SATA Hard Drive
• One 4-pin IEEE 1394 (FireWire 400)
• Six USB 2.0 ports
• 17-inch display
• 8.8 pounds
• 1.67 inch thick
• 8X CD/DVD Burner (DVD+R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
• Intel PRO/Wireless 3945 802.11a/g Mini Card (54Mbps)
• Dell Wireless 350 Bluetooth Internal (2.0 + Enhanced Data Rate)
• Integrated 10/100 Network Card and Modem
• 512MB NVIDIA GeForce Go 7900 GTX
• DVI output port
• Remote Control for Windows XP Media Center Edition
Total cost = US$4,008. (Not a typo, not Canadian dollars or Singapore Dollars; and for the world’s ugliest, heaviest, colored light glowing, OS-limited, bathroom-scale-looking POS, no less. By the way, it’s a good thing we’re fairly advanced Web surfers; navigating Dell’s bait and switch Web morass and actually getting a list of specs together to compare with Apple’s product is nearly impossible.)
Okay, so with the Dell, we get a screen with a bit higher res (Windows’ inferior UI needs the extra room), 3 more USB ports, a better video card, but no FireWire 800 port, no built-in camera, no MagSafe power port, and no built-in ambient light sensing keyboard and display. We do get (thankfully) Anti-Virus/Security Suite Pre-installed PC-cillin Internet Security: AntiVirus, Firewall, and 15-months of Spyware removal (sounds fun, see what you’re missing Macheads?), but no ability to run Mac OS X or any of the best-in-class Apple Mac-only apps like GarageBand, iMovie, iDVD, iWeb, iPhoto, etc. – plus the Dell is much thicker, two pounds heavier, and immeasurably uglier.
So, who’s getting ripped off here, exactly? Which company’s flagship portable laptop is really the better deal? The one that will win design awards around the world or the one that, when closed, people will mistakenly try to step on to see how much they weigh? To paraphrase Derk, the Dell just needs to get a $1,209 cheaper somehow, learn how to run Mac OS X, grow a FireWire 800 port, a built-in camera, gain a first-class industrial designer, and shed two pounds and nearly half its thickness before it would warrant even a cursory look.
By the way, you can get two 15.4-inch MacBook Pros and $10 change for the same coin as the $4,008 Dell XPS M1710.
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Related article:
Dude, you got a Dell? What are you, stupid? Only Apple Macs run both Mac OS X and Windows! – April 05, 2006
Hey Nick… go find yourself a girlfriend….
sheesh…
who needs magsafe and buit in camera? more like a gimik and out of the average people no one even usues firewire 400 not alone 800. About UI?? who really cares how does the operating system looks like? as far as the programs work on it, you’re not going to make a leaving out of stearing at the preaty os (omg look at that preaty picture ooooo!!)
I dont have a clue where did that price for dell come’s from? even top of the line XPS lap top doesnt cost as much and you get as good of the features.
MDN Magic Word: (sssshhhh… quiet) “job”, as in Nick, GO GET ONE! So you can also buy your Dell…; then your time will be occupied with keeping it running.
Andrew is ranting about “exploits” again (yes, I’ve read all the articles about them) and Nick seems a bit… desperate. How many comments has he had now? 7? 8? 9?
Please do get a life. And also, while you’re at it, get that Dell you keep saying is so “pretty” and has “kickass graphics” because it seems to be the thing you love to evangelize the most.
And Andrew, I’ve counted and there have only been, like, 15 exploits found. Every operating system has exploits, nobody’s doubting that, but the problem is, nobody ever takes advantage of them. They don’t really matter at all.
Although I really wish they would stop posting them all over the world fror all eyes to see because although surprisingly nobody has done anything to exploit the.. exploits, it’s sort of an invitation to do so.
Oh, and by the way, Mac OS NEVER had zero exploits.
It occurs to me that the M1710 with 4GB RAM running Photoshop natively in Windows would sure humiliate a MacBook Pro with 2GB running Photoshop through Rosetta. Not that anyone uses Macs for doing graphic design work or anything like that.
So what’s the point then that it “humiliates” MBP?!?
See, this is the problem with those pc folks, it doesn’t matter if their shity boxes run circles around a Mac, because a mac user will only use a machine that can run OS X…
I couldn’t care less for the Dells and HPs of the world.
nick are you a lawyer?
because i find your pedantic nerdgasms pretty annoying…
there’s no such thing as a direct comparison between
apples and oranges anyways so i think
ballpark figures are more than adequate–
you don’t need to bring out your calculator…
you don’t have to measure or weigh them…
you don’t have to repost every revision…
article made an ignorant statement that
MDN pointed out to be assinine…
your first post made your point (the first time)
but i don’t think MDN’s point was diminished at all
by your squabbling… and nitpicking…
if you really own a macbook just be glad you
got a good deal…
Fantastic editorial. I’ll definitely share this article with friends.
Nick, you’re comments where some of the few impartial comments through out this long list of comments. You should know that this is a Mac propaganda site. Everything is slanted here and if you try and talk reason you get blasted by everyone.
If the MBP is so superior then why doesn’t it support 4gb of ram? Come on! The MBP is suppose to be cutting edge performance but it’s underclocked (because it’s cute design can’t handle the heat) and it only supports 2gb of ram.
Bottom line is that the MBP and the Dell both have their advantages and disadvantages. In the end though I choose based on the OS and that’s why I chose the MBP. I would have no problem using the Dell if it ran OS X.
Here’s a shoot out, between the “$2,800 17″ MacBook Pro vs. $2,800 17” Dell Inspirion E1710
http://www.systemshootouts.org/shootouts/laptop/2006/0424_lt2800.html
Whilst I don’t think the MDN example is a prefect comparison, I think it’s clear that Mac’s are comparable in price to Windows PC’s when you configure them as close as possible on the major points. Even if a MacBook Pro was to end up being a few hundred more it would still be better value because of all the extra stuff; size, design, weight, iSight, backlit keyboard and so on and so forth, not to mention the arguably higher value of the software.
Bottom line is that a MacBook Pro is a high end machine and it costs a fair chunk of change. A comparable machine from some other manufacturer is going to be similar, maybe more, maybe less, but as a percentage of the total price it’s going to be close. Any difference has to be judged on how much you value the extras.
To say that a Mac is twice as expensive is just misleading and stupid. I mean you can buy 2 Dell machines for the same price of a more expensive, higher specced Dell machine. Does that make the more expensive Dell worse?
Nice poem, crayon1… Or are those lyrics?
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There has been no restraint in the subjectivity and bias of Dell versus Apple laptop performance and economic comparisons, and the added bonus of “I’m geekier than thou.” attitudes. No doubt, if I want a thorough, thoughtful, and objective comparative analysis I would best look elsewhere.
Windows does not use memory above 2GB at all efficiently and for a laptop application 2GB should be more than enough for anybody.
I will be editing HD on my MBP, running Shake and Motion to the max. I know 2 GB is fine for mobile work. When the Intel Towers arrive I’ll fill one of them with at least 4 GB and let the vastly superior OSX make full use of it!!!!
Putting >2 GB in a PC at the moment is little more than pointless. The 3 GB switch is not always acknowledged by all applications so you’ll have memory kicking round in your PC that ain’t being used. You might have bragging rights, well, until someone informs you of the above.
I shall be placing my order for a 17″ MBP tonight and hence forth I shall be known as Switched….
If you’re allowed to use coupons on the Dell price comparisons, can we use educational discount on the MBPs? they don’t check, after all…
I priced the Dull I’d buy (theorectically) at roughly $2,800, which includes the equivalent of AppleCare. On price alone, that’s an additional $349 in Dull’s favor.
I’d buy the Apple, but like everyone here, I’m not everyone, and I don’t shop on price alone. I liked the BMW and Ford analogy, but most people do shop price, all the time. Apple is kidding themselves if they think they’ll make any inroads into the Doze market with $3,600 notebooks vs.$2800 books from a marketing machine like Dull.
Windows does not use memory above 2GB at all efficiently and for a laptop application 2GB should be more than enough for anybody.
I’m gonna share a real funniy piece of pcism sukcness:
I had an AMD box to run a banking app only available for Windows.
With 256 Ram, Windows 98 would run ok, but when I upgraded memory to 512 Mb, it ran slower!!! And no, this is not a case of ram speed or parity or whatever, because I changed the chip, I took the 256 out and put a 512 in.
Go figure…
What is the going rate for a Windows wipe and reinstall due to unrecoverable spyware/malware infestations these days, anyway?
Since no one else has answered this question, I’ll bring it up. My company (A small local ISP) does computer wipes and reinstalls for $80 total. That’s 2 hours of labor. If the customer has data backup concerns, there could be an additional $20 tagged on for Data Backup and Restore. We have had some customers come in as many as 5 times to have their systems wiped and reinstalled, shelling out around $400+ over the last couple of years. We charge between $60-$80 for Spyware/Adware/Virus scanning & removal and downloading of all Windows updates. Some people are willing to continue to pay for this over and over again, even though I suggest to them, through their rants of frustration as they fork over 3 or 4 crisp $20 bills, that they could save money and hassle by going Mac. I’ve had maybe 3 people actually listen and switch because of what they’ve had to go through (and pay) with their old PCs. Yet, the majority of them are still willing to pay through the nose to bring in their crappy Dells, Gateways, HPs, Compaqs and Generic PCs to have us once again, clean or reinstall their software.
Go figure.
RELEASE THE HOUNDS!
Dakroland: My point exactly. Boot Camp, is not going to change the average buyer’s mind. We Apple boosters are using too much passion and not enough reason. All the spyware/malware/BSD problems in the world do not make up for the fact that Dulls etc. are several hundreds of dollars cheaper in the most common configurations than Apple. All the included apps like iLife are not going to change the simple fact: people shop price.
You’re correct that MOST average users are not going to be swayed– for them computing is an afterthought. I am seeing new interest in nMacs, though– once the new Macbooks come out, I am helping new buyers buy. One in particular cites his Dell needing five major repairs in less than a year and my enthusiasm for my computer as the reason for his switch.
Even my staunch, Windows-only brother has recently stated that the only reason he hasn’t gotten a Mac is because his wife would become a computer widow while he played with it. True or not, it’s the first non-bashing words from him. People ARE paying attention to Apple’s computers again. Mac share will increase, no doubt.
-Nick-
“Kick-ass gaming machine…???” Oh come on, give me a break. That has very little to do with hardware (for similarly configured machines) and everything to do with game developers utilizing the power that the hardware and OS are ready to provide. The way I see it I am in fact getting a gaming quality machine, but made to do work. I recently priced some Alienware hardware out of a gaming magazine and compared it to the latest Macs, Alienware clearly more expensive for essentially the same hardware on the Mac side. Will the Alienware stuff run games faster, yes; why? Because that developers write software tweaked for that hardware and OS.
Two wrongs don’t make a right
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All the included apps like iLife are not going to change the simple fact: people shop price.
That is why when people call me up on my tech line and ask me honestly which computer I recommend, I always tell them I own 3 Macs, and they should consider one too. They are shocked when I say that, considering my work is basically all about dealing with Windows internet connection issues. Everything they throw at me as an excuse not to buy a Mac is now so easy to shoot down. But you are mostly right. Some, not all, people shop solely based on price alone. You will never sway them because they cannot wrap their brains around a higher price being less expensive in the long run than a cheap Dell. I try to get them to factor in expected extra costs for software restores, spyware/malware scans, downtime, etc. but it hardly ever seems to register to them. However, there are many people I’ve spoken with over the years who DO listen, and they are proud owners of Macs to this day. They used to call me at least once a week with problems with their internet connections, but now I never hear from them. I have called them and asked how things are, and they are happier than they ever were.
People do listen, eventually. Whether they do it before they make a mistake or after is another thing altogether. In the long run, we have to be wise, not just zealous about our Macs. Know when to not push the issue, and just put the bug in peoples ears. If they want to listen, look for the signs and then help them. I don’t consider myself a Mac Fanatic, but rather a Mac Advocate. I won’t blast people for articles like the one above, but I will correct misinformation when I see it. Whether it’s negative OR positive for the Mac or PC. The problem is there is so much of it out there, that people don’t know what to believe anymore.
wow- “I can actually agree with MDN’s take because it contains logic instead of propaganda — a rare occurrence for MDN! :~)”
The regular MDN guys must have been out of the palatial MDN office lounging around the corporate MDN swimming pool and one of their maids wrote the comment.
Even if the correct price for the dell is $1620, that is still a lot of money for a bathroom scale.