Apple obviously seems to be morphing the iPod family’s connectivity from FireWire-centric to USB-centric. The newest member of the iPod lineup, the iPod shuffle connects via USB 1.1 and 2.0 through integrated USB connector. Today’s latest iPod mini and iPod photo connects via USB 2.0 and FireWire 400 (with FireWire cable, sold separately) through Dock connector.
Only the older iPod Special Edition and iPod models seem to still come with FireWire connectivity (FireWire cable) out-of-the-box, featuring both USB 2.0 and FireWire 400. One guess is all it should take to figure out that the next iPod revision will probably not ship with a FireWire Cable and rely upon USB 2.0 instead.
FireWire was the original iPod’s only connection. Apple invented FireWire. You’d think Apple would use its iPod platform to expand FireWire’s reach, not diminish it. Unfortunately, most Wintel PC’s do not come with FireWire standard while all Macs do. It’s ironic that Apple feels they have to knife their own baby in favor of Intel-developed USB, which many consider to be inferior for data transfer compared to FireWire. If the iPod shuffle is any indication, soon FireWire connectivity for all iPods will be discontinued.
So, Mac + iPod users are in the interesting position of being considered second class citizens by Apple, the maker of the Macintosh no less, as Mac users are being forced to pay extra for the superior FireWire connectivity that our iPods would naturally utilize to connect to our Macs. Because more Windows users buy iPods than Mac users, the iPod’s connectivity is being dumbed down to match Wintel PC’s second-rate “standards.” Enjoy!
What’s next, Apple, building Windows key support into iTunes and forcing Mac users to use a mapped function key on their Mac keyboards?
Note to Apple: be very careful with your Mac users. Do not force Mac users into substandard “solutions” just because that’s what the majority of Wintel PC users happen to be stuck with or “tax” Mac users an extra $20 because we want to use the better, Apple-invented connectivity solution that’s built into our better, Apple-invented Mac computers. Apple, you should allow users to choose between FireWire or USB 2.0 cables at the point of purchase, at least at your online store. We Mac users have been treated as second class citizens for years from most other tech companies, do we now have to endure being treated that way by Apple, too? Remember the people that kept your company going for many bleak years. Mac users are watching what you do and how you treat us now very, very closely.
We have a message in to Apple and will update this article with any response they choose to give, if they do indeed choose to respond.
Related MacDailyNews articles:
Apple should include a combo FireWire and USB 2.0 cable in every iPod box – February 24, 2005
Petition to Apple for iPod FireWire support posted online – February 23, 2005
Apple updates ‘iPod photo’ family with new slim 30GB model, debuts new iPod Camera Connector – February 23, 2005
Apple unveils new 6GB iPod mini for $249, 4GB model now priced at just $199 – February 23, 2005
it’s all about cost savings
First Post:
Did you notice that the old iPod 40GB slipped quietly into the night and is no longer available!!!
This means that the single platter 40GB is on its way as is the double platter 80GB!!!
I hope we will see them soon
Cheers
80% + of all iPods are sold to people using non-Firewire equipped Wintel boxes. Since all Macs have USB 2.0 now (but not my TiBook
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Right on MDN. Like I have said elsewhere, at least they should give you the choice of what cable you want with your iPod if they are intent on saving in cable bundling costs – but to charge Mac (Firewire) users $19 extra seems to me a big kick in the teeth to the Mac community and does not bode well for Apples confidence in this conectivity medium.
shame on apple!
Shame, I think the shape of FireWire ports looks much better than USB’s boring rectangle hole.
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I think FW800 will live on, it rocks.
The iPod shuffle is understandable because it’s basically a thumb drive with a cool music player built on top.
For the other iPods, however, this is inexcusable. It doesn’t cost Apple any considerable amount of money to include the FireWire cable in the box and if you’ve got an older Mac that doesn’t have USB 2…have fun waiting for your music…..to…..synch……slowly……
Maybe that’s why they got rid of the cable. They want Mac users to upgrade their computers!
Pretty sneaky, Apple.
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To those who may confused, the newest iPods DO support FireWire, you just have to buy the cable separately now
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java:
We’ll probably see single platter 40 GB and (double platter) 80 GB models in the second half of the year. Probably/Hopefully to coincide with 5G iPods.
They are still going to push Firewire for video applications. So, it’s really not “knifing” per se… maybe on the iPods and thats it, but not in the video industry.
They are definately trying to bring the cost down for the consumer by offering USB 2.0 instead of Firewire. I think if they could bring the model out with the same features and firewire they would.
Heck 60 Gigs for $449 is a hell of a lot of music and photos for the price. And in such a small form factor. It wasn’t long ago when we were almost paying that same amount for a 5 gig iPod folks! So I wouldn’t complain to much really.
Anyone with an older mac already has a firewire cable. As long as they don’t screw with the the dock socket and make it some non-apple standard shape ( like Sony Camcorders etc)- I for one don’t need another Firewire cable to add to my already huge collection of duplicate useless cables.
while this can be explained as a cost-effective move, it’s still a sign that they are concerned with pleasing the majority. While not necessarily a bad thing, they must be careful that they are not swayed too much by what the majority of consumers may think they want.
As MDN states “the iPod’s connectivity is being dumbed down to match Wintel PC’s second-rate “standards.”
– What’s next, firewire removed from the Mac mini to save costs? Apple should not feel the need to match the PC world’s standards even if it means saving more money and pleasing a few more people. Pushing new technology (progress) is what Apple is good at doing. They should’t stop now.
Watch the price of the cable go down soon. Anyway, the extra 20 will not kill anyone, and for those with older Macs with USB 1, there is always the option of buying a USB 2.0 PCI-Card. So, essentially what Apple is oing, it is giving you choice.
Magic Word “Fine” as in “It’s fine by me”
Luckily that I already have an iPod and it came with the FireWire connector as standard. If I buy an iPod sometime in the future, I’d expect a FireWire connector to come with it since none of my Macs have USB 2.0 (which is slower than FireWire anyways).
The article comes from one of those ‘We have to find something bad to say about Apple today’ sources.
I wouldn’t even give them a hit just to read the rest of the spin in the piece.
If Apple can’t use the iPod to push FireWire acceptance to the world, perhaps they should just discontinue FireWire because nothing they do will have the impact of the iPod.
It was an idiotic move, Apple, to force Mac users to ignore a superior connectivity solution or pay more to achieve it because the majority of your iPod audience are too fscking stupid to buy a PC with a FireWire connection.
If you didn’t think we’d notice, you were wrong. Be careful, Apple.
Does this mean the Firewire based seperate charger is also history?
Mac users are F***ed.
First it was no Firewire in iPods. Then came the OSX port to Windows.
Microsoft responded with Longhorn for Mac.
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. I’m depressed.
Good for Apple. USB 2 has a much greater reach than firewire and really who cares. Apple is catering to their primary suers and I hope the contiue on this path.
I’m in complete agreement with the article, as stated. It’s not about the $20, it’s about supporting a clearly faster interface which ships on its own computer products.
This move will not inspire PC manufacturers to include Firewire in any of their beige boxes, which before, given the popularity of the iPod and it’s included Firewire cable, it very well could have. Sucks.
I’m in complete agreement with the article, as stated. It’s not about the $20, it’s about supporting a clearly faster interface which ships on its own computer products.
This move will not inspire PC manufacturers to include Firewire in any of their beige boxes, which before, given the popularity of the iPod and it’s included Firewire cable, it very well could have. Sucks.
“I wouldn’t even give them a hit”
You just did…
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Firewire has one unique advantage over USB – you can connect device to device (ie., do not need to connect to PC). Since the iPod will have to be connected to a computer (PC or Mac) there is no reason not to use USB 2 since transfer speeds are sufficient. I do not believe this is a question of Apple killing off firewire, it is just a smart decision to go with USB for this particular application. I own a shuffle and eMac. The USB 1 is just fine for moving songs and books to it. I am sure that USB 2 is fast enough to quickly fill a larger drive iPod. What is the big deal
ricki,
“Because of its design, iPod shuffle cannot be connected to the USB ports on the side of eMac computers—it will not fit.” – Apple Computer.
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=300589
Why are you lying to us, ricki?
Since this is only on the iPod photo for now, maybe this is a part of what will connect the iPod photo to a camera. After all, most cameras ARE USB and not FireWire, so if you’re getting the iPod photo as a way to store photos from your camera, why have a FireWire AND USB cable when USB will do just fine?
I’m a huge Apple fan and think this is a very smart move by Apple.
They’ve got no need to ‘push’ firewire through their ipod line just because it’s theirs. They realize that usb2 more than meets the needs of speed for music transfers on the ipod, and now that most new macs ship with usb-2, they’re not letting down anyone. And ‘dumbing down’ the ipod!?!? Then I guess they dumbed down all Macs when they put in USB-2 support.
This move just shows that Apple is a smart computer company that is not afraid to make innovative and industry-changing moves….but has the sense to adopt something if it works. USB-2 works for the ipod.
For years we all complained that Apple stuck too strongly to its NIH (Not Invented Here) approach, now when they actually have a product that brings in revenue from PC users we complain that they use a technology NIH. Whatever. After all, it was Apple who made the Intel-developed USB popular. Without Apple PC users would still be connecting printers with 1284 cables and keyboards with PS/2 cables.
Also, rickl is right. You don’t need the added advantages of FireWire with an iPod. With a FireWire equipped digtital camcorder you can record directly to disk instead of tape saving the import time (a device to device connection). It isn’t as if you can connect an iPod to a CD player which will transfer encoded songs to the iPod; you still need a computer and iTunes for that.
Truth detector – I guess I wouldn’t know since I connect mine to the most convenient USB port – the one on the keyboard – but your comment shows that you have totally missed my point – some truth detector you are. Thanks for the irrelevent tidbit though, it may mean something to someone.
Well, I’m happy because it means one travel charger that will work for both the iPod Shuffle and the new iPod Photo I’ve just ordered. Time to be pragmatic – I will still probably use the Firewire cable I’ve got from my old iPod when synching with the computer, because in my experience it’s faster and less problematic. But let’s not forget that USB languished until Apple adopted it on the iMac – so USB and Macs go hand in hand.
…and as for not being able to plug it into the USB port on your eMac, well, a USB extended cable costs about $1 – in fact one came with my Apple keyboard, you can have it if you like…
I think this can be taken care of if Apple just allows customers to bring in the USB 2 cord that comes with the iPOd and exchange it for hte FIrewire cord.
I can understand Apple not including both it eats into the margin.
Good business move.
ricki,
USB2 has a burst max transfer rate of 480. Burst means a very short rush of data. The rest of the time the actual sustained throughput is MUCH slower. Firewire on the other hand is capable of sustained, continuous 400 throughput. Its MUCH MUCH faster and more reliable for transfering large amounts of data, like say 60 gig of photos and/ or music.
The basic iPod connector hasn’t changed. Mac and other firewire users just have to buy a cable. Sorry, but its the same deal with buying a printer. Cable not included. Not that big of a deal for the price, HUGE deal in real life data transfer performance.
They’ve got no need to ‘push’ firewire through their ipod line just because it’s theirs. They realize that usb2 more than meets the needs of speed for music transfers on the ipod, and now that most new macs ship with usb-2, they’re not letting down anyone. And ‘dumbing down’ the ipod!?!? Then I guess they dumbed down all Macs when they put in USB-2 support.
The problem isn’t that Apple is offering USB 2 as well as FireWire 400 with their iPod products. The problem lies in the fact that Apple was shipping both USB and FireWire cables with the iPods so the user had a choice out of the box, but now they’re snubbing their nose to their own loyal customer base, which primarily use FireWire for high speed connectivity with external devices. Even today with USB 2.0 versus FireWire 400, FireWire is still faster as every benchmark has shown.
http://barefeats.com/usb2.html
Good move by Apple. They’re listening to the market and delivering what the customers want. How can people complain about that? If you want a firewire cable, buy one.
Good move by Apple. They’re listening to the market and delivering what the customers want. How can people complain about that? If you want a firewire cable, buy one.
It’s as easy as saying; “you want a USB cable, buy one”.
I can’t believe the reaction to this. Who cares if it’s USB2 or Firewire? Sure, Firewire is superior but USB2 isn’t bad. Apple made an economic move. Hopefully, their stock will continue to climb…
And the question is; why buy a USB cable for $20 bucks, when you can buy a FireWire card for the same amount at your local Wal-Mart? So why do Mac users have to suffer, when PC users should just get on-board and expand their freakin’ tower (since that’s why they own a PC in the first place)!
MDN Magic Word; question
Gee – my third post, sorry folks. Truth Detector, according to Apple, my shuffle should not be connected to my eMac keyboard because it supposedly will not charge. However, it is doing it just fine. There may some differences in the eMac models.
Darknite – thanks for the info, however, in most cases, you will fill up as much of your 60GB ipod as you can, ONCE, and thereafter incrementally add small amounts of data (songs). USB 2 is still more that adequate. Maybe if you are using it primarily as a portable hard drive then firewire is the choice. I still think this is a non issue. And Firewire still has a great potential for the future.
“Note to Apple: be very careful with your Mac users. Do not force Mac users into substandard “solutions” just because that’s what the majority of Wintel PC users happen to be stuck with. Remember the people that kept your company going for many bleak years. “
Ridiculous! Those users that stayed with Apple through the bleak years proved that Apple need not worry about them at all. They’ll stick through anything. Mac users are one demographic that Apple need not be careful with.
DudeMac,
Good question. Firewire card for PC users is the same price as the firewire cable for mac users. So, it would seem that the 2% marketshare myth has struck at mac users from inside Apple itself. How is that for irony?
MDN word = tax? As in now Apple charges Mac users an Apple Tax?
ph8te wrote: “and for those with older Macs with USB 1, there is always the option of buying a USB 2.0 PCI-Card.”
Unless, like the vast majority of Mac users, you have an iMac, eMac, iBook, or PowerBook.
I think people have lost sight of the fact that a 4GB mini + FireWire cable still costs $31 less today than the same thing did yesterday. And there’s now an iPod at every $50 price point from $99 up to $349. The iPod family matured in a big way this morning and all we can do is complain about a $19 cable!
hey, my firewire ports are full. I am glad I have the option of using an open USB port. Do not have to diconnect the fire wire hardrive that HOLDS ALL MY ITUNES. can you say USB compatability is a feature/benefit?
This is the typical crap that happens when a loser (Al Gore) is “thieving money” form us, the Mac loyalist…
Let the herd of lemmins run wild…and feed on USB2 but, FireWire should not be ignored!
Folks, don’t be silly!
Apple cut the price of these new models by some $50. The FireWire cable costs $20. Do the math. You still save, and Apple makes it easier for the the majority of non-FireWire owning PC folks to pick up an iPod.
And on another note: If you want the extra benefits of FireWire, why not pay for it?
All in all, this Apple made a good business decision. Mind you, if they nix the FireWire connectivity altogether in the non-Flash ‘Pods, then I’d have concerns.
Folks, don’t be silly!
Apple cut the price of these new models by some $50. The FireWire cable costs $20. Do the math. You still save, and Apple makes it easier for the the majority of non-FireWire owning PC folks to pick up an iPod.
You do the math; a FireWire card can be had for $20 bucks and PC users always tout why they like their PC, because they can expand it. Well go and get a FireWire card and expand away!!!
bdb, I agree with you. The fact that Apple has dropped prices and increased capacity on an iPod model is GREAT news.
MDN word expected …. Mac users are expected to display this sort of behavior when they feel the least bit slighted over the most trivial of $19 items.
I would understand this response if Apple nixed the FireWire interface, but not over leaving the cable out.
Dudemac Quote: “The problem isn’t that Apple is offering USB 2 as well as FireWire 400 with their iPod products. The problem lies in the fact that Apple was shipping both USB and FireWire cables with the iPods so the user had a choice out of the box, but now they’re snubbing their nose to their own loyal customer base, which primarily use FireWire for high speed connectivity with external devices. Even today with USB 2.0 versus FireWire 400, FireWire is still faster as every benchmark has shown.”
They’re not snubbing their nose to their loyal customer base. That’d be the case if they discontinued firewire support. But (like I said the first time) now that most macs include usb-2 support, they’ve decided to adopt that as the standard ipod interface. So what if firewire is faster. Are you gonna be that pissed that it takes 7.5 minutes vs. 6.23 minutes for your songs to load?!? Is your data transfer rate that critical. Apple computer made a good business decision for the most people (that includes mac people).
Apple’s in a difficult position here. They want to support firewire over USB against an array of Intel-galvanized forces. And it is a better standard, better even then USB2. But they’ve also introduced firewire 800. FW800 is more than a year old and where is it? No market penetration. I think this is the death knell for 1sts-gen firewire. Apple will let it languish and fade away. It’s okay though: as before there was USB and the superior firewire, soon there will again be two standards: USB2 and the superior FW800.
Question is, aside from giving in to that reality, how does this move push FW800. Maybe Apple should sell a dock connector-to-FW800 cable, for $19, promising faster transfers.
Also, can you do target disk mode with FW800? target disk mode is in my view a killer app, worth using one cable instead of another, and by itself worth using OS X instead of Windows. (Though there are of course other reasons as well…)
As I said in the other thread this is no big deal. Just about every Mac user already owns an iPod which means they already have a firewall cable that can be used with the new models. Apple knows that so stop complaining over trivial things people.
What I said in the Board of Directors Meeting:
Who cares? They’re Mac users. They’re used to being charged more because they’re Mac users. so we’ll do it to them, too. We’ll make USB 2.0 standard – we have to accommodate our Wintel PC users who are buying the most iPods. Charge the Mac minority an extra $20 for the FireWire cable – they’ll pay it without a whimper. Oh, we invented FireWire? Must have been while I “was away.” Listen, nobody will notice that we’re mistreating Mac users and charging them extra to use the standard and superior built-in FireWire connectivity that we sold them. The Mac users will just pay it. We must consider the needs of our Wintel PC iPod buyers first and foremost.
Apple is fscking up due to their GREED. It is clear that Apple is mistreating Mac users here in favor of Wintel PC users. A Mac user scorned can be quite a dangerous animal. Be very afraid, Apple. Apple needs to reconsider and fix this obvious mistake ASAP.
I read through this posting for about 4 minutes before I realized that I’m sad and pathetic for spending 4 minutes reading about a wire.
Any news is fightin’ news for the Mac geek.
…and another thing. having two cords in the box just makes the product more complex. 1 ipod, 1 cd, 1 cord. Simple.
That’s why they have a 1 button mouse. Even though 2 is more pratical (in my opinion. I don’t complain when have to go out and by my Kensington.
It’s likely that FW800 would not result in faster transfers anyway. Those little drives ain’t that fast.
So the Shuffle was the beginning of “the end?”
Flash memory can’t transfer even AS fast as USB 2.0. So Firewire would have no advantage. Straight from Apple (Phil S. or somebody) re why the Shuffle takes more time to transfer one song.
What is the big friggin deal!!?? Did anybody notice that the iPods are cheaper?? And thinner?? The iPod does NOT need two connection options. Maybe… just maybe it was a purely business decision to cut overall costs?? And let’s not kid ourselves EVERY friggin computer now has some form of USB.
Get over yourselves people this isn’t about “screwing Mac users.”
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i bet you the “switch” to USB 2 has something to do with camera sync. AFAIK there is no CONSUMER digital still camera available that has FireWire. I believe that even the majority of pro digital cameras also have USB 2. FireWire is very good for transferring audio at a sustained rate, and for video transfers, which requires a stable throughput ( an area where USB2 sucks ), but for iTunes to iPod transfers, USB2 is fine.
Trust me, as long as there is iMovie, FCE, FCP, Shake, and Logic, Apple will not give up on FireWire.
I love how DudeMac implies that installing a FireWire card is just as simple and easy as buying a FireWire cable. ROTFLMAO.
Yeah, Dudemac is a moron.
Btw, the 1.8″ drives in the iPod is well below the speed of USB2 or FireWire.
The way I see it, most computers have USB 2.0. Macs have been offering USB 2.0 for the last few years. As long as USB 2.0 works just as well for transferring songs, why should anyone care?
I love my Macs and suggest them to many of my friends, but you have to know where to draw the line. I mean, please stop, take emotions out of the picture, and ask yourself:
– Does it REALLY matter?
– Aren’t there bigger issues out to spend your energy on?
Scoo
Jumping Christ in on a Pogo Stick, who CARES!
Don’t you people have more productive ways to spend your lives than playing armchair CEO and second-guessing every nitpicky little decision that Apple makes?
“Oh good god, I’m up in arms because one of the pixels on the little Apple icon in the menu bar looks like it was rendered premultiplied but composited with straight alpha!”
“Oooh, this little Apple device uses a serial connector that is only twice as fast as I need, rather than three times as fast as I need. Please let’s all sue Steve Jobs and his evil minions.”
Three words, Sheeple: Get. A. Life.
A nice gesture would be to offer a swap to those who want Firewire. Only those who know the difference would care to complain about it and getting the desired cable would be the adequate solution to the complaint. It is worth walking into your Apple store with your packaged USB cable and asking for a trade.
mike k.:
As stated before, USB2 is plenty fast enough for iPod transfers, despite FireWire’s technical superiority. In fact, I’ll bet you that , because of the slow drive in the iPod, FireWire transfer is no faster than USB2 transfer. Don’t assume that just because FireWire is the faster bus, that the transfer itself will be faster.
USB 2.0 vs. Firewire? Not the issue. I bought 500 shares at $19.56. It’s now at $87.96. That’s the issue. USB is not a compromise, its smart business. Thank you Mr. Jobs. I love my Mac. Now I even have a little extra cash for the new PowerBook.
Reis,
I know the feeling…500 at $14. Ain’t it sweet? Go Steve!
Why a half measure, if the idea is to lower the cost of iPod products – then remove BOTH cables.
Offer ALL models with no cables (zero) .
Have the customer purchase which is appropriate for their needs ON purchase of the iPod product. The retailers/orderhouses will either be efficient with their supplies, or lose out to those that are.
Maybe what’s bothering the Mac customers – or atleast those that prefer FireWire – is that they still must pay for the included USB2 cable – that they CHOOSE not to use (or can’t use), and then have to pay EXTRA to use their CHOICE (or ONLY option) of a FireWire cable.
How many here enjoyed buying a USB cable for their inkjet printers, when a serial/parallel cable was INCLUDED in the price? Exactly!
This is inefficient. Remove both cables.
MacBuddy has said it best. No one should be penalized because they can’t support the other peripheral!
1) Either both cables come as standard
2) Neither cable comes as standard
3) Make either cable an option at purchase time
Most Macs don’t have USB 2, so most Mac users would have to buy the FW cable, which sucks, especially since PC users can easily buy a $20 FireWire PCI card and install that. PCI cards are worth $20 bucks, peripheral cables however are not worth $20 bucks. If Apple sold them for $5 bucks, then no one would complain, though free would be better.
The replies here are indicative that Apple could not have pleased all its users all of the time. I for one have an extra USB cable that came with my mini that I would rather have had the cost savings. Apple is making financial decissions to stay ahead. The actually quality of the product did not go down nor really the cost per items included. The just offered the unit with or without charger.cable. It is a shell game, the pea is STIIL under one of the shells, just not the one you thought.
Apple was one of the first to use USB and of course pioneered Firewire. However, now all new Macs ship with USB 2.0, I think Apple is trying to push old Mac users to new Macs. Apple appears to be saying that USB is for general equipment and that firewire is for specialized equipment, video and external drives.
Well we’ll see if Apple puts firewire 800 in there entire lineup and eliminate Firewire 400. I think that is what they will do next.
“Apple appears to be saying that USB is for general equipment and that firewire is for specialized equipment, video and external drives.”
Er, stingerman, iPods are external drives, either hard drives or flash drives.
Apple screwed the pooch (and loyal Mac users) on this one.
all i have to say is that I will never, ever, ever update my ipod or mini using USB 2.0 instead of firewire. USB 2.0 is significantly slower and less reliable than firewire, I don’t care what the “specs” say and I don’t care how many PC fanboys post otherwise.
that said i think it’s fine that apple quit shipping 2 cables in every ipod box, that always seemed like a needless enviornmental hazard anyway, how many hundreds of thousands of FW/USB cables got thrown in the trash due to being redundant.
what Apple should do is offer Mac users a free firewire cable if they request it at time of purchase, or at least have them availabe for a nominal fee of $5 or $10.
With the $150 price reduction of iPod Photo models, you can buy a new fireware cable. They didn’t drop firewire support – you use your prexisting firewire cable or buy one for $20.
And the $50 price drop on the 4Gb mini more than covers the cost of a new cable.
I much prefer the 1 iPod, 1 cable simplicity. If both cables still came in the box I’d probably use firewire. But USB 2.0 works well for this application, and the firewire speed advantage isn’t worth $20 to me.
The worst thing is that you cannot boot into OSX from usb, but you can from firewire.
[how many hundreds of thousands of FW/USB cables got thrown in the trash due to being redundant.]
Zzz…,
Not to single you out. But, don’t people keep all the paraphenalia that came with their iPods considering the RESALE value of doing so.
If ‘I’ throw out my never-to-be-used USB2 cable, then I can ONLY sell my used iPod to a FireWire owner! That’s dumb.
89% of computer owners apparently use USB2.
This logic should extend to keeping BOTH cables, no?
And Apple – in an effort to reduce costs – should NOT include either cable.
MDN MagicWord: planning. I’m planning on keeping my useless USB2 cable to increase my chances of selling my used iPod.
Considering the positioning of nearly every firewire and usb port on every machine out there, Apple is overlooking a major point. Firewire is easier to plug in than USb when the person is not looking directly at it. EG. reaching around the back you cant often see the port, one would find FW much easier to plug in since its not symmetrical.
Apple give-ith, and Apple take-ith away. Too bad Mac users are no longer Apple’s target customer. You guys might bash PC users but now they are the one’s that keep Apple going. Cold hard fact…
Firewire is for daisy-chaining peer-to-peer networking. USB is for host-to-peripheral networking. The iPod can’t be daisy-chained and it acts like a peripheral to the Mac.
Apple still has big plans for firewire but it has to do with AV networking, not peripheral to host connections.
What was that bit about mapped function key on Mac and Windows key?!?
I agree with what MacBuddy and DudeMac:
“MacBuddy has said it best. No one should be penalized because they can’t support the other peripheral!
1) Either both cables come as standard
2) Neither cable comes as standard
3) Make either cable an option at purchase time”
Like I said in the other article about the minis, I think this is a TERRIBLE mistake: USB 2 is ungodly slow compared to FW, plus it sucks down a huge amount of processor cycles to work (and I’m running on a dual 2.5 GHz machine!).
Apple is, IMHO, making a terrible mistake here trying to shave a few $$ off the price and appeal to Windblows customers. Booo!
this may have been said, I didn’t read all the comments, but the reason the shuffle doesn’t have FireWire is it is 1/2 and 1 GB, not anything that USB 1.1 can’t handle…
I just came to your website to read an article. One of your sleazier advertisers has figured out how to bring up a popunder They’re hawking “spyware protection” and tell me I have problems on my C: drive. Funny, my Mac doesn’t have a C: drive.
You ought to be more selective about your advertisers.
Didn’t Apple originally force Windows users to buy the USB cable separately?
Just wanted to bring that up.
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Didn’t Apple originally force Windows users to buy the USB cable separately?
Just wanted to bring that up.
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Stereo audio tranfers really don’t require more than what USB has to offer and let’s not forget that Apple pushed the acceptance of USB over slower serial and parallel connectivity with the introduction of the iMac.
Firewire 800 will be ideal for transferring higher quality multimedia content. I’m sure when the time is right, this successor to the original firewire protocol will again place Apple’s technological advantages to the forefront. The real question would be what type of device would Apple create with a high lust factor that would start out as Mac only which would require a faster transfer rate than what USB 2.0 has to offer? The thing is only the Prosumer/Professional Macs come with Firewire 800 as standard.
OK, so Apple wanted to change the iPod’s icon as an elite machine and approach the least common denominator regarding financial ability and computing culture. Just because it saw that it was in a good position to pull a Dell out of it and compete with iRiver, Creative and the odd noname players.
One of iPod’s advantages over the competition is the superior connectivity of Firewire that Apple used to support and impose. IIRC it was the lack of compromises in architecture, design and performance that sold millions of iPods up today, not just ITMS. And that iPod’s success history is what is going to drive iShuffle sales. If you bring down the coolness and superiority of the hign end devices, iShuffle sales are going to take a hit because at this market it is a war Apple can not win.
And I don’t care if I sound emotional. I don’t buy from a company that I feel it doesn’t treat me as 1st class citizen. It’s my money.
Can’t we all just get along?
As a “switcher” I’m disappointed to see the strange way you Mac people take ownership in something you’ve NEVER had any say about in the past and will NEVER have any say about in the future.
Apple is a business, making THINGS for you to use. That’s it. Nothing else. Buy their STUFF or buy someone else’s STUFF.
I do however believe it’s OK to be in love with your THINGS. After all I do love my Apple products. Keep up the good work Apple.
After an initial disappointment with the news that USB 2.0 was the new standard connection for iPods, I’ve since come to realize a few things:
1) The demographics tell us that it’s the leading-edge Mac users buying iPods.. those that will eventually upgrade anyway, so they’ll have a computer with USB 2.0 eventually. No harm there.
2) PCs are “recycled” more frequently, and USB 2.0 has become standard on most (except, ironically, not on the low-end PCs).
3) This paves the way for FW800 to become the new standard.. it’s had to compete with FW400… no reason for two separate ports on our computers (since they have different connectors).
4) How many people have a need for two cables? Some do, but most don’t. Cuts down on waste.
5) Would be nice for Apple to offer a choice, but many people buying iPods are PC users that don’t have a clue, so why make it harder than it needs to be?
At the end of the day, the cost of adding an FW cable to a new iPod is still cheaper than buying an iPod a week ago that came with a FW cable in the box.
My disappointment has subsided.
I, too, am disappointed that Apple is giving up on firewire in this case. It’s quite obvious that it’s not going away; it’s a superior technology for A/V work, as well as for fast, reliable external HDs.
Still, though, the age of USB 2.0 has just dawned in the Mac world recently. While it might be a pain to offer two different boxes (one with USB 2.0, one with firewire), and the inventory control would be much more difficult, I still think it should be some sort of option. I don’t feel that we’re by any means “entitled” to it, but it would be nice.
And what of the AC adapter? I’m assuming the one that comes with the standard iPod/Special Edition is still a firewire-based adapter, but what about the iPod Photo? It comes with a USB 2.0 cable and an AC adapter. Does the AC adapter now have a USB port on its back instead of a firewire one? Now, if we buy a firewire cable, do we have to buy an extra AC adapter to match the cable?
I can understand dropping to USB 2.0 on the Mini, and it’s an obvious choice for the Shuffle. But if someone’s going to spend $450 on an iPod Photo, one would think that having a FireWire card is pretty likely.
It would be interesting, though, to see the differences in transfer time specifically with USB 2.0 and FW on a Mini, standard iPod, and Photo. (Also tested on both a Mac and a PC, since the Mac’s USB 2.0 implementation seems to leave a little to be desired).
While coming up with a sane response to Apple regarding the recent iPod decision, I poked out this. Read it thru’ – you may actually approve
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It’s been suggested that 80% of iPod owners are throwing out their FireWire cables. That would mean that 20% of iPod owners are throwing out their USB-2 cables.
The public are being told that Apple is reducing costs and passing on the savings to it’s iPod customers by not including the less ‘popular’ FireWire cable.
Some folks have suggested, that Apple reduce the ‘cost’ a further $20. They think that this massive waste could be ended if customers could choose which is appropriate at the point of purchase. (Thinking, an outfit like BestBuy or FutureShop will acknowledge that most of their customers will need the USB-2 cable and correctly manage to have supplies that cover those customers. Conversely thinking, a Mac retailer will acknowledge that most of their customers will need the FireWire cable and correctly manage to have supplies that cover those customers.)
Many feel that as a consumer product – leaving out a connectivity cable would inconvenience ALL iPod customers.
I think that the difficulty that some of your Apple iPod customers (20%?) are having reconciling this decision, is that they are ALSO your Apple Mac customers. The delemma they see – is this is a decision that negatively effects their (Apple) computer product, not positively effects a consumer product – even an Apple one.
Leaving out the (superior, Apple) FireWire cable now – in favor of the USB-2 cable might be prudent IF most Mac users had USB-2. Currently, most don’t. This probably would have been a non-issue if Apple had chosen to do this particular change 12-18 months from now.
As for today, do you think that a ‘FireWire-for-USB2-Cable-Walk-in-and-Trade-in’ program would work for your Mac customers that are also your iPod customers?